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Hi everyone. I recently bought a Galaxy S (Bell Vibrant) for my wife, she saw it and really liked and i was pretty familiar with the specs and all that and all the good reviews so i jumped in and got it. Now since she has it (4 days) the phone has turned itself off for no reason twice and has also frozen a couple of times with one of them being when i was showing it to an apple fanboy (embarrassed). But anyway now my wife isnt very happy with it because she says it feels very light and cheap and she thinks it would break very easy and also complains about it turning off. Today she saw the icrap 4 in the store and she liked it and now she wants that . She says it feel that it wont break easy and its stylish . Now i dont like the iphone at all and i really dont want to return the SGS and get that but i want whats best for my wife. I just read so much on this forum about all the problems people have with this phone turning off, freezing,lag, screen problems, gps, touch buttons, bad audio quality and a few more... I wonder on the screen i dont know if it will last a year before it starts tint issues burn ins and so on. Now i want to know do you guys think this phone would last at least a year two and do you think all this stuff will be sorted out or should i get her the icrap 4. I really dont like that iphone but it seems suitable for my wife as all she wants is somthing that works takes decent pictures and looks good. Please let me know what you guys think as this is really pita.
Sorry for the long and confusing post..
you keep the SGS and get her the "iwantwhateverybodywantsphone"
SGS is not for the normal person
SGS is for people with computer knowledge and linux understanding and windows haters
SGS is a amazing phone if you know how to use it, and keep it clean, the same techniques used in windows works the same in Android, and it does wonderful stuff
ironically in windows those solutions never last, in Android you do it once, and it remains forever set.
no GPS problem, no lag, no lag fix, no freeze, no turning off on its own, it works perfectly on JH2
your description of the phone "turning off" could be either a battery problem, or the phone ran out of memory due all the background apps no closing off and releasing the memory back
Shes got her mind set on the Iphone4, get it and live happy. If not she'll be whinning about it til contract is up or divorce (which ever is faster)
ickyboo said:
Shes got her mind set on the Iphone4, get it and live happy. If not she'll be whinning about it til contract is up or divorce (which ever is faster)
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Click to collapse
yup.. that's true, womens are like that.
it's either their way, or their way... they don't care for logic, reason, and never mention who's right, that doesn't exist in their world
AllGamer said:
you keep the SGS and get her the "iwantwhateverybodywantsphone"
SGS is not for the normal person
SGS is for people with computer knowledge and linux understanding and windows haters
SGS is a amazing phone if you know how to use it, and keep it clean, the same techniques used in windows works the same in Android, and it does wonderful stuff
ironically in windows those solutions never last, in Android you do it once, and it remains forever set.
no GPS problem, no lag, no lag fix, no freeze, no turning off on its own, it works perfectly on JH2
your description of the phone "turning off" could be either a battery problem, or the phone ran out of memory due all the background apps no closing off and releasing the memory back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes i know how it is with Android as i am pretty familiar with it. I have a X10 myself and i love it to bits, i dont think im ready to switch it for an SGS. However i am not doubting the software of the SGS but the hardware, my main concern is the screen, i see a lot of people here that have problems with it so my concern is durabilty and lifespan i also see a lot of people on here who sent their phone for repair numerous times and that scares me. Now my wife is not set on the iphone as she is not a big fan of apple herself and shes heard me ***** about how bad and limited it is all the time but she just wants a reliable smartphone that she can depend on and not have it crap out by itself for no reason. She likes the SGS but she also likes the design of the crap 4 and she asked me if that would be more stable and not give problems. I told her that i am waiting on a update (froyo) and all the bugs will be probably fixed. Anyway like i stated before its the hardware thats is troubling me. Do you guys think it will last, more specifically the screen. Also can you recommend me wich firmware to use and wich lagfix? as i see there is a few out there, or should i wait for the official froyo release? Thank you for all your help, i really apreciate it.
AllGamer said:
yup.. that's true, womens are like that.
it's either their way, or their way... they don't care for logic, reason, and never mention who's right, that doesn't exist in their world
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Click to collapse
Haha yes that is true. But the wife doesnt really care about the iphone and she is not set for it completly or somthing. She just said she likes the design lol. And if it would work better to get her that. So i am pretty unfamiliar with Samsung phones thats why im doubting it. I know all previous samsungs were crappy and buggy as hell and with weird menus etc.. So now we have the SGS wich is the first phone that i actually like from Samsung but i still have my doubts thats why i am asking you guys.
AllGamer said:
you keep the SGS and get her the "iwantwhateverybodywantsphone"
SGS is not for the normal person
SGS is for people with computer knowledge and linux understanding and windows haters
SGS is a amazing phone if you know how to use it, and keep it clean, the same techniques used in windows works the same in Android, and it does wonderful stuff
ironically in windows those solutions never last, in Android you do it once, and it remains forever set.
no GPS problem, no lag, no lag fix, no freeze, no turning off on its own, it works perfectly on JH2
your description of the phone "turning off" could be either a battery problem, or the phone ran out of memory due all the background apps no closing off and releasing the memory back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow....
I'm sorry but some of your posts are ridiculous.
"SGS is for windows haters and people with Linux undersanding"?
WTF
I'm sure the Bell rep makes you fill out a pre-requisite form before you take away a SGS to make sure you have Linux knowledge and hate windows... Thats how they are marketing the phone too...??
This phone is being marketed to the main stream.
And as far as JH2 being perfect. Guess what? When my SGS died I had already updated it to JH2. I got it back from repair on Friday, its JH2 still, and it has turned off on its own twice now. Fresh from being wiped and repaired. Just browsing these forums and seeing all the people with the same issues JH2 or otherwise is a clear indication that there are some serious issues with this phone. Oh, and my co-worker who picked one up after me has now had to send his in for repair as it died. Its his first smart phone, with all of 5 apps installed, so don't try to blame it on hacking or rooting.
You're apologetic fanboy like posts are getting tiring to be honest.
/rant
As for the original poster. Take it back and get your wife an iPhone 4 if thats what she wants. Apple fan boys drive me nuts too, I know, after my SGS died on me I have never heard the end of it..
Well i definitely see where you are coming from and understand your lack of interest on the SGS
but i'm coming from a total 180, and this is the perfect phone, everything came out as planned, from spec, to speed, to software, to features, to funtionality, to well you name it, everything works the way i expected it to work out of the box
way better than windows devices
i've been through a lot of smartphones before, and nothing comes close to the SGS, all previous "smartphones" were nothing but disasters and let downs
just the same way you think about the SGS i think about the HTC devices and the Blackberries, and the Treo600.
However the Treo650 was quite decent, albeit slow online but it was way better than its predecessor in every other aspect.
I still prefer PalmOS over Windows
put either Android or Palm OS on any device with good spec better than SGS and I'm all over it.
right now at this point in time the SGS is the creme of the crop, the supremacy, the top of the top
Looking forward to next years contenders
Too many apple fanboys.
Super Galaxy S said:
Too many apple fanboys.
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Sorry but your post is useless. I am not looking to start a flame war i am looking for advice and opinions from this community. I am not any kind of fan boy and i doubt any of the posters here is. Please if anyone has something to say please do so but lets keep it clean, no flame wars no fan boy and childish comments because you are not helping anyone.
Hey there, I bought the i9000 on recommendation from two friends that were both iPhone users that switched to nexus ones and never looked back. I have been a blackberry user for about 7 years and gone through (destroyed) most of them. This is my first smartphone and i was looking for something with minimal buttons (to break) and a good screen and good battery life. I didn't realize i was also going to end up with a mini super computer! Lagfix not only solved all lag issues, it now performs like a pack of rabid monkeys... on a touch sensitive leash. I have had no issues with the screen, rebooting, or any other hardware related problems. Any issues were related to my inexperience with android which is how i found this place. Just be careful... so while i can't give you any further information about the hardware, I have to warn you that there is a lot of information about rooting Vibrants that doesn't apply to the i9000 even though they are relatively identical, most importantly the recovery hotkey combination.
Anyway, I'm getting off topic. My i9000 is rooted with MCR Script lagfix, GPS fix, and SetCPU on Performance. Its lightning quick, bloody bright, and about 1000x more than I ever could have hoped for out of a smartphone.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
I am on my second Bell i9000m GXY S. Me and my girlfriend bought one just over a month ago.
Mine suddenly died. I had done many flashes and other such things on it, but that wasn`t the cause. The cause was a bad MoviNand chip. Samsungs chip that runs the phone. Before I even modified the phone I was having Force closes. Random reboots and other errors. Having to do battery pulls to get your brand new $600+ phone to work is ridiculous.
I came to Android from Blackberry. Being an apple hater I had no other real choice in my market.
My second Galaxy S (replacement under warranty) came in today. Before I touched anything root it had 2 force closes. It froze once so far under heavy use.
My girlfriends is completely stock and after a couple weeks has random reboots, and other errors similar to mine. I fear her phone will go the same as my first (and likely second) did.
I love the phone but the i9000m seems very buggy and unreliable. I can`t use it for an alarm because 1 out of 20 times it will freeze in the middle of the night. Hers too; which is stock.
It seems to be more of a problem with the Bell variants of the phone, as I see other bell users with the same problems more often then American customers.
I would really wait to make any permanent impressions on the phone until Samsung releasestheir Froyo FW update and possibly fixes the bigger problems with the i9000m.
So I wouldnt push you one way or the other, but be prepared to take that galaxy s off your woman`s hands and buy her a crapple. I may be taking my girlfriends and getting her a Desire HD or whatever HTC releases next in my market. HTC for my friends seems to be rock solid. Again thats just my view and I am probably inaccurate since I don`t own an HTC.
If samsung doesn`t fix the GPS bug (which I have run into on both our phones--- one stock and mine on several roms) and the crashing (stock) on the next couple of updates I will not be buying Samsung again, but will be sticking with Android. I have tried to use the GPS in 3 provinces and 4 states and its really accurate for me less then half the time.
Apple gas been supporting 3g till now in all firware updates. While mr sam sung forgot our froyo
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
salmanslick said:
Apple gas been supporting 3g till now in all firware updates. While mr sam sung forgot our froyo
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Say what? Froyo isn't released yet. Nothing is forgotten before you actually have an officially released product on your phone. Stop being a retard and don't pollute threads with problems about inofficial firmwares. 3g is not entirely perfect on the released firmwares, but it's definetely there.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
I have the Sgs from the begin and any problem... no freeze, Reboots, I thing that people thing froyo will solvent all problems, but this kind of issues are caused for a defective hardware, no software... then maybe should contact samsung to replace the mobile.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
install this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8123924&postcount=40
and disable all the apps that you don't need to be running in the background all the time
it doesn't matter how "smart" are the smartphones now in days, it's still a freaking computer, if it's not optimized, it will just go crazy
i don't even have a task killer installed, as it's not necessary, as long as you maintain the list of apps you allow it to run in the background then the rest is smooth sail.
i9000m stock JH2, no lag fix, the only fix installed is the SMS time fix
solipsism said:
I am on my second Bell i9000m GXY S. Me and my girlfriend bought one just over a month ago.
Mine suddenly died. I had done many flashes and other such things on it, but that wasn`t the cause. The cause was a bad MoviNand chip. Samsungs chip that runs the phone. Before I even modified the phone I was having Force closes. Random reboots and other errors. Having to do battery pulls to get your brand new $600+ phone to work is ridiculous.
I came to Android from Blackberry. Being an apple hater I had no other real choice in my market.
My second Galaxy S (replacement under warranty) came in today. Before I touched anything root it had 2 force closes. It froze once so far under heavy use.
My girlfriends is completely stock and after a couple weeks has random reboots, and other errors similar to mine. I fear her phone will go the same as my first (and likely second) did.
I love the phone but the i9000m seems very buggy and unreliable. I can`t use it for an alarm because 1 out of 20 times it will freeze in the middle of the night. Hers too; which is stock.
It seems to be more of a problem with the Bell variants of the phone, as I see other bell users with the same problems more often then American customers.
I would really wait to make any permanent impressions on the phone until Samsung releasestheir Froyo FW update and possibly fixes the bigger problems with the i9000m.
So I wouldnt push you one way or the other, but be prepared to take that galaxy s off your woman`s hands and buy her a crapple. I may be taking my girlfriends and getting her a Desire HD or whatever HTC releases next in my market. HTC for my friends seems to be rock solid. Again thats just my view and I am probably inaccurate since I don`t own an HTC.
If samsung doesn`t fix the GPS bug (which I have run into on both our phones--- one stock and mine on several roms) and the crashing (stock) on the next couple of updates I will not be buying Samsung again, but will be sticking with Android. I have tried to use the GPS in 3 provinces and 4 states and its really accurate for me less then half the time.
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Click to collapse
X10 is a stylish phone, its heavy and looks durable. So why not try to switch (assuming she doesn't mind using your "old phone" .. , and you two are on the same network / phones are unlocked)
Being a sgs owner I would recommend you to return it, it has too many issue straight out of the box. This phone requires alot attention, fixes, patient and time. It does have the potential to better then any mobile out there at this time but only if you posses the aforementioned qualities.
My advice get her desire HD or desire, she will appreciate it more then an iphone.
HTC Desire is really popular within the UK even amongst the women because it is easy to use and is works brilliantly out of the box.
Super Galaxy S said:
Too many apple fanboys.
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Click to collapse
And too many SGS fanboysº
As everyone more or less said:
- install the lagfix!
A) if you're technically inclined, flash the rom to something stable and tested by many (yet unofficial and "beta"): JM8 + voodoo b4 (it's in the dev forum)
B) if you're not, get one click lag fix from the market, it doesn't get any simpler! follow the program instructions, and be done with it
Let her play with it for a while with lagfix.
About the hardware quality, i got a i9000 (not i9000m), there's many different SGS and even with the same design might come from different factories etc etc.
Mine is extremely strong even being plastic, i'm very happy about that so far.
Also it's thin and light and has a big screen.
The iPhone4 has a smaller screen, and its a lot heavier than the SGS.
Additionally, you need to add a cover (bumper, case, etc) around the phone to alleviate antenna issues (granted you don't _need_ but it's very highly recommended), so you lose all the neat design factor.
After exposing her these arguments and showing up the lagfixed phone, let her decide. If she wants the iPhone4 (or Desire HD or what not), then just go for it and ebay the SGS many will buy it.
As much as it hurts to say it, my Vibrant is really starting to lose it's charm.
When I first got it, the hardware was great, and the phone ran perfectly. Now after having it for over a month, this is what I'm starting to see:
Lack of life in the market. I see no new innovative games or apps. All the cool apps I downloaded have been on the market for a while.
Lack of development here. There hasn't been much progress in developing in cool ROMS that would make a huge difference on my phone.
The phone is becoming more slow, and not as fluid. Even the 1 or 2 second delays just bothers me to be honest.
Lastly, lack of initiative from Samsung. I know we have all been complaining about Froyo, but it just boggles my mind how little Samsung has been paying attention to it's existing customers. I hope it comes back to bite them sometime in the near future.
These things are becoming more and more apparent to me, and every time I look at and use my phone, I don't feel like I am using a solid, fluid phone, that I can try a lot of new things with in the future.
This is not a complaining thread, so flamers - gtfo.
I just wanted to see if anyone out there sees the same things I am seeing, and if there really is not potential left.
i fail to see how the lack of quality apps in the market falls on the vibrant
lolcopter said:
i fail to see how the lack of quality apps in the market falls on the vibrant
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Click to collapse
True. This is my first Android phone, so I paired the OS with the hardware.
nearblack said:
As much as it hurts to say it, my Vibrant is really starting to lose it's charm.
When I first got it, the hardware was great, and the phone ran perfectly. Now after having it for over a month, this is what I'm starting to see:
Lack of life in the market. I see no new innovative games or apps. All the cool apps I downloaded have been on the market for a while.
Lack of development here. There hasn't been much progress in developing in cool ROMS that would make a huge difference on my phone.
The phone is becoming more slow, and not as fluid. Even the 1 or 2 second delays just bothers me to be honest.
Lastly, lack of initiative from Samsung. I know we have all been complaining about Froyo, but it just boggles my mind how little Samsung has been paying attention to it's existing customers. I hope it comes back to bite them sometime in the near future.
These things are becoming more and more apparent to me, and every time I look at and use my phone, I don't feel like I am using a solid, fluid phone, that I can try a lot of new things with in the future.
This is not a complaining thread, so flamers - gtfo.
I just wanted to see if anyone out there sees the same things I am seeing, and if there really is not potential left.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bye bye ...
But I want to point out some flaws in your logic ...
Lack of life in the Market? Maybe you should change what you are searching for our use some alternative markets, as there are tons of new apps ...
Lack of dev here? Ummmm I have had like 7 diff custom roms on my phone and had it less than 2 months ..
phone slow? I am sure that is caused by all the crap you installed, that really is the only thing that slows the phones down, is having 17 million things running.
Not gonna defend Samsung, but just so the info is correct, Samsung sent 2.2 to all the carriers at the same time, so actually it is Tmobile that is slowing it down, not that makes the wait any less painful ...
And the big thing I wanted to say is ending your post by saying "flamers -GTFO" is like dumping a gallon of gasoline on yourself and running into a burning building and expecting not to catch fire , smarter thing would have been to not even post.
But.. all in all, it's a phone. There can only be only so many cool games for your phone. Great games for consoles and PCs don't come around all the time either. Sometimes you have to wait years for something great to come around again that's a "must have." We are talking about a phone. It's mobile, has some cool stuff to play and do on it... but it's still a phone. It makes and recieves calls, text, pictures, data, etc., lets you browse the web, and other cool little things. It's not, nor ever will be a desktop replacement. No mobile device is perfect. If you want something better, try making it yourself, otherwise, just deal with what we have and work with it.
The "newness" is probably wearing off, but that happens with anything.
This topic is painful.
I can complain and nitpick with the best of them, but my personality sort of forces me to put things into perspective.
Firstly, I'm extremely pleased with my Vibrant. Though GPS at times has a mind of it's own with the post JI2 fixes it performs adequately for me while driving. I'm sure there are those who have a vested interest in the GPS being more reliable and accurate to be sure, I'm just not one of those people.
Getting beyond the GPS there is very little I can complain about. Among my friends there are a wide variety of smartphones. Several iPhones (3gs, 4), EVO 4G, several 3g Slides, several more MT3G's, and two friends with "other" Galaxy S phones, a Fascinate and an Epic 4G. I come from a past filled with a Behold II, a G1, a Palm Centro, and an original iPhone. And this phone is way better than any phone I've ever had and generally better than most of my friends phones I've played with.
In a forum like this one we have a tendency to get "tunnel vision". Forums like this exist for users to help and inform one another, but through this minor snags can get blown up into major headaches. I'd invite anyone angsty about the Vibrant to go see how the other half lives over in the HTC, Motorola, and LG threads and see that it's relatively a bed of roses for us in comparison. At least that's my take given my casual peeks into the forums for the other new smartphones out.
This doesn't mean I'm giving Samsung or T-Mobile a "get out of jail free" card. Both Samsung *AND* T-Mobile have horrible histories when it comes to updating Android devices, either in a timely manner or even AT ALL.
T-Mobile, to it's discredit has yet to have a single successful (meaning the update wasn't pulled at some point for problems it created) OTA of any android device since 2009.
From looking at Samsung's handling of the Galaxy S, given a cursory glance at it's own wonky revisioning system, it's no wonder that it's taken far too long for 2.1 to get fully fixed and 2.2 to progress beyond beta. Releasing this platform on a ridiculous amount of carriers, whilst simultaneously trying to cater to those carriers customization demands has obviously led to an extremely fragmented development process for us. A victim of runaway success, or a victim of their crappy development processes, it's difficult to say.
Either way as consumers we should be adamant that T-Mobile and Samsung take responsibility for their products. But, at the same time, we should step back and realize this is a smartphone and ask ourselves if it's doing what we want it to do.
If it is, then take a deep breath and count to ten. If it isn't, then take a look at how the rest of the smartphone universe is really functioning before you jump ship, only to be disappointed all over again.
Some of peoples ire here is buyers remorse, focused and whipped into extremes because of where you happen to be focusing your attention. Do what I'm about to do, which is pick up my Vibrant and call some friends so we can all go unplug with some tasty sushi and sake!
masterotaku said:
I can complain and nitpick with the best of them, but my personality sort of forces me to put things into perspective.
Firstly, I'm extremely pleased with my Vibrant. Though GPS at times has a mind of it's own with the post JI2 fixes it performs adequately for me while driving. I'm sure there are those who have a vested interest in the GPS being more reliable and accurate to be sure, I'm just not one of those people.
Getting beyond the GPS there is very little I can complain about. Among my friends there are a wide variety of smartphones. Several iPhones (3gs, 4), EVO 4G, several 3g Slides, several more MT3G's, and two friends with "other" Galaxy S phones, a Fascinate and an Epic 4G. I come from a past filled with a Behold II, a G1, a Palm Centro, and an original iPhone. And this phone is way better than any phone I've ever had and generally better than most of my friends phones I've played with.
In a forum like this one we have a tendency to get "tunnel vision". Forums like this exist for users to help and inform one another, but through this minor snags can get blown up into major headaches. I'd invite anyone angsty about the Vibrant to go see how the other half lives over in the HTC, Motorola, and LG threads and see that it's relatively a bed of roses for us in comparison. At least that's my take given my casual peeks into the forums for the other new smartphones out.
This doesn't mean I'm giving Samsung or T-Mobile a "get out of jail free" card. Both Samsung *AND* T-Mobile have horrible histories when it comes to updating Android devices, either in a timely manner or even AT ALL.
T-Mobile, to it's discredit has yet to have a single successful (meaning the update wasn't pulled at some point for problems it created) OTA of any android device since 2009.
From looking at Samsung's handling of the Galaxy S, given a cursory glance at it's own wonky revisioning system, it's no wonder that it's taken far too long for 2.1 to get fully fixed and 2.2 to progress beyond beta. Releasing this platform on a ridiculous amount of carriers, whilst simultaneously trying to cater to those carriers customization demands has obviously led to an extremely fragmented development process for us. A victim of runaway success, or a victim of their crappy development processes, it's difficult to say.
Either way as consumers we should be adamant that T-Mobile and Samsung take responsibility for their products. But, at the same time, we should step back and realize this is a smartphone and ask ourselves if it's doing what we want it to do.
If it is, then take a deep breath and count to ten. If it isn't, then take a look at how the rest of the smartphone universe is really functioning before you jump ship, only to be disappointed all over again.
Some of peoples ire here is buyers remorse, focused and whipped into extremes because of where you happen to be focusing your attention. Do what I'm about to do, which is pick up my Vibrant and call some friends so we can all go unplug with some tasty sushi and sake!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said. The only thing that bugs me with the Vibrant is how long its taking to get the GPS fix out but other than that I am 99% satisfied.
nearblack said:
As much as it hurts to say it, my Vibrant is really starting to lose it's charm.
When I first got it, the hardware was great, and the phone ran perfectly. Now after having it for over a month, this is what I'm starting to see:
Lack of life in the market. I see no new innovative games or apps. All the cool apps I downloaded have been on the market for a while.
Lack of development here. There hasn't been much progress in developing in cool ROMS that would make a huge difference on my phone.
The phone is becoming more slow, and not as fluid. Even the 1 or 2 second delays just bothers me to be honest.
Lastly, lack of initiative from Samsung. I know we have all been complaining about Froyo, but it just boggles my mind how little Samsung has been paying attention to it's existing customers. I hope it comes back to bite them sometime in the near future.
These things are becoming more and more apparent to me, and every time I look at and use my phone, I don't feel like I am using a solid, fluid phone, that I can try a lot of new things with in the future.
This is not a complaining thread, so flamers - gtfo.
I just wanted to see if anyone out there sees the same things I am seeing, and if there really is not potential left.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with every point you made! It kind of being a let down, coming from having 2G, 3G, 3GS iPhones...I really sometimes miss the availability of all apps on the apple app store...HOWEVER...I think Andriod is going to surpass Apple app store and OS, just give it a little bit of time and you are going to be much happier.... I remember having the same type of frustrations when the 2G came out, specially not being able to forward messages, copy and past, lack of updates....etc... and plus the drop calls of iphone/att.. So give some time for Samsung and Andriod to grow and I think all of us going to be much happier with Froyo.
And the big thing I wanted to say is ending your post by saying "flamers -GTFO" is like dumping a gallon of gasoline on yourself and running into a burning building and expecting not to catch fire , smarter thing would have been to not even post.
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Click to collapse
I lold so hard.
And if ur phone is laggy how about, oh, I dunno, a lagfix? And uninstall all those "japanese sexy girl" apps.
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA app
/FACEPALM
nearblack said:
...
[*]The phone is becoming more slow, and not as fluid. Even the 1 or 2 second delays just bothers me to be honest....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Galaxy S has never really been "fluid."
Scrolling has a "jerky" feel, which is immediately apparent if you compare it to the iPhone.
The EVO is also noticeably smoother than the Samsung (although still not as fluid as the iPhone).
MacGuy2006 said:
The Galaxy S has never really been "fluid."
Scrolling has a "jerky" feel, which is immediately apparent if you compare it to the iPhone.
The EVO is also noticeably smoother than the Samsung (although still not as fluid as the iPhone).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "jerky" feel is due to the OS rather than the hardware as the vibrant has an equal or faster processor than the iPhone according to Anandtech review not to mention a much faster GPU. Also in the review it called the SGS as the fastest android even after using the EVO previously. I agree that the iPhone has the smoothest scrolling as I used to have the 2G and even on that, scrolling was extremely smooth.
sp4rky said:
Well said. The only thing that bugs me with the Vibrant is how long its taking to get the GPS fix out but other than that I am 99% satisfied.
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Click to collapse
This. I bought my phone day one as soon as the store opened, and I still love everything about it, especially now that JI2 has fixed my GPS.
With all the little quirks and mishaps i've had with this device (none of which have been a deal breaker for me) I am still very pleased i purchased this phone. To me it just seems to be getting better and better. Yes just like anyone else I would love to have Froyo and would love for my GPS to work 100% all the time but that is just a chance you take with technology and new devices. You learn to cope and deal. Really isnt that hard to grasp.
Only because it runs rock solid for me, I don't need to do anymore tweaks or anything.
Hoping Froyo brings in more developers and makes things a little more fun.
Vibrant too is my first android phone and also my very first smart phone. Although, I have owned 3 different iPod Touches, so that at least gives me some perspective of how a "smart" Mobile OS should be such as Android, iOS, etc.
I am very please with the hardware, and Android in general. However, coming from iOS, android does felt short in terms of upgrade path. ROM from independent developers are great but the lack of proper channel for official OS update really is the "nail in the coffin" kinda of thing.
With the exception of iOS 4 which excluded 2g, 3g iPhone; Apple users can expect an update on a timely yearly basis which usually adds features and bug fixes. It just makes you feel better when you know that an official update is definitely coming. We are kinda stuck in the situation where we are depended on Samsung to push for the update. Sigh.
Other than that, I am really glad I made the switch, the notification bar is my all time favor and of course Multitasking.
Samsung has dropped the ball in a lot of ways. I am inclined to say that the superior Android maker is HTC--just my opinion. Nevertheless, this phone its really growing on me, perhaps because of all of its nuances. I have learned a lot trying to mod the phone and create my own fixes. The hardware on this phone is rather amazing, so I know that if I get the software right I will love it. The first glimpse of that was when I installed Bionix 1.3. If you do not have it, then go get it in the dev thread. 1.4 should be releasing soon. Bionix has rejuvenated my interest in the Vibrant.
Sent by my Android.
Wahhhhhhh go get an iphone!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Why do people expect everything to come out fast by big companies? Motorola's wireless division, which is probably still small compared to when they were big in the past, only concentrates on Android, thus faster releases. HTC has been in the ball game since day 1 and is basically purely concentrating on Android until WP7 comes out. Samsung, well, I don't even know. There division makes all kinds of phones and working on different OSs while HTC and Motorola are concentrating only on Android. Oh, everyone should know how slow T-mobile is with updates. Really, they aren't the fastest ones around. With T-mobile, it's always been quality over speed.
Anyways, stop making pointless complaint topics, we don't need any more to clutter this forum. That's what I'm basically trying to say.
After dealing with all the delays, non-existent support and updates and failed promises to ship the phone with next day shipping, I decided that I had tolerated enough and demanded my money back. Hopefully that is easy.
Here's why Dell Venue Pro sucks:
1. Too big. Usually big is a 'good' thing according to the trend of 2010. However, when it's big but also thick, it reminds me of my iPAQ from 12 years ago. With the Otter Case it gets even worse.
2. Horrible Camera. It's slow to activate unlike the Focus, and it takes blurry pictures even in just slightly dim light. I know that no camera phones can take pictures in dim light well, but DVP's camera is blurry even in a room during the day. My T-Mo G1 can do better than that.
3. No 4G. Just a UI change is not enough to switch phones and pay more per month as I had been using Android, and all the newest droids out there have way faster speeds that can even do video chat.
4. Keyboard is not that well integrated. Turns out the "fn" key and "shift" key are highly unpredictable, since it doesn't have any indicator that it's simply on or locked on. I mistyped more password than I did with the soft keyboard. Therefore, it's not worth the bulk.
5. Thoroughly unhackable. No SD Card slot access. No tethering trick. No screenshot trick.
6. Bottom buttons are capacitive. Looking back, the dev phone was perhaps the only great phone because they have hard buttons for Back, Windows and Search keys. Using touch buttons for these important commands make the OS experience finicky. For example, it's too easy to hit the Bing button accidentally while taking photos. It was also way too easy to got kicked out of a game - and having the resume afterwards makes things worse.
7. No confidence left for Dell Mobility, or even Dell in general: They folded the mobile division already. Their updates for Dell Aero and Dell Streak took months and months to fulfill, so how will the DVP be any different? We had already suffered through the lack of information on shipping, and I would expect firmware updates not to be any different.
8. This thing crashes. Unlike some other users here, mine crashes even when Wifi is off. The crashes are all random and not confined to Marketplace or 3rd party apps. If Dell was not so irresponsible, I would ask for an exchange instead of a return, but this is a dealbreaker to me.
One thing I am glad about it is, I had waited long enough to find out about Samsung's Omnia 8, and probably better phones to come in CES and Mobile World Congress.
Thanks, Dell, for being awful, and ruining what would be a good phone.
I plan on giving Dell one more shot. I've been waiting a week now for my replacement. I'll wait for that replacement (even if it takes another week or two) and if the replacement is unstable or has any other problem then I'll return it and pick another phone.
You are right, this phone could be near perfect. It just seems that Dell rushed it.
I'm in the same boat. I love the phone except a few major problems.
1- WiFi Crashing
2- Bluetooth not staying connected
Below are WP7 issues
3- Cannot sync with Outlook
4-No mass storage
5- Cannot connect to hidden WiFi networks!!!!
I miss cut and past but can live without it I need the rest fixed if I'm going to be able to keep it.
rsacipher said:
I'm in the same boat. I love the phone except a few major problems.
1- WiFi Crashing
2- Bluetooth not staying connected
Below are WP7 issues
3- Cannot sync with Outlook
4-No mass storage
5- Cannot connect to hidden WiFi networks!!!!
I miss cut and past but can live without it I need the rest fixed if I'm going to be able to keep it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know....my WiFi lags but doesn't crash. My BT is fine. Outlook syncs fine, but I've been syncing cloud stuff fine. Storage, I have 16gigs. Will I use more..who knows or cares. Hidden WiFi...something strange about that. Its hidden for a reason, if dvp could see it, ITT wouldn't be hidden. Seems like homey reasons to quit to me. But then again , you're not me. I got what I expected. Is it 100% perfect? Nope...but I wasn't expecting it to be. I wonder if iphone4 people are returning it because of the alarm...to me the best reason to return a phone is...i don't like it. All other reasons show up on most other phones too... Just my opinion
this phone has more problems now that i think about it. but mines a keeper. i like the windows UI and the look of the dvp. its rare and you cant just buy it at, say, tmobile stores. =D
I love the phone but you know as much as I love it I can't use a phone that doesn't work. When I pay $550 for a phone I think the least it can do is work so as much as it kills me I called them last night and told them I want my money back. I gave them a week or so to see if they would give some responce to the problems posted on the forums but nothing which means they're not going to fix the problems or they're going to be real slow about it. And the whole 30days thing you guys have over here means I cant really wait around to find out so I'll have my money back thanks!
The problems I had with the phone were numerous:
- WiFi crashing constantly
- bluetooth constantly disconnecting from car kit
- 3G signal loss and complete network loss
- white noise in earphones
...and then to top it all off, and this is a WP7 issue more so than a DVP issue - however the marketplace works and because I used my old windows live id to setup the phone, M$ basically still think I'm in Ireland for whatever reason and as a result I can't download any of the good stuff eg: Netflix, LastFM etc... and some apps I download are for european region instead of US and so are completely useless to me.
Anyway all in all I had no choice but to get a refund. Bummer!
This venue pro will be going back for the same reasons which have been found in this post.
1. No 4G. Just a UI change is not enough to switch phones and pay more per month as I had been using Android, and all the newest droids out there have way faster speeds that can even do video chat.
2. Keyboard is not that well integrated. Turns out the "fn" key and "shift" key are highly unpredictable, since it doesn't have any indicator that it's simply on or locked on. I mistyped more password than I did with the soft keyboard. Therefore, it's not worth the bulk.
3. Thoroughly unhackable. No SD Card slot access. No tethering trick. No screenshot trick.
4. Bottom buttons are capacitive. Looking back, the dev phone was perhaps the only great phone because they have hard buttons for Back, Windows and Search keys. Using touch buttons for these important commands make the OS experience finicky. For example, it's too easy to hit the Bing button accidentally while taking photos. It was also way too easy to got kicked out of a game - and having the resume afterwards makes things worse.
5. No confidence left for Dell Mobility, or even Dell in general: They folded the mobile division already. Their updates for Dell Aero and Dell Streak took months and months to fulfill, so how will the DVP be any different? We had already suffered through the lack of information on shipping, and I would expect firmware updates not to be any different.
6. This thing crashes. Unlike some other users here, mine crashes even when Wifi is off. The crashes are all random and not confined to Marketplace or 3rd party apps. If Dell was not so irresponsible, I would ask for an exchange instead of a return, but this is a dealbreaker to me.
I no longer feel confident with DELL. Furthermore, I dont like how we were treated throughout this launch, especially in a economy when spending 500+ dollars on a item is a luxury. I have purchased phones outright before and have never gone through a process like this.
I wanted to believe that this phone could of been more but if I wait until my 30 days are up I will be s### out of luck. I'll see what CES has up its sleeve.
This venue is definitely going back unless something miraculously happens with DELL or Microsoft regarding the phones OS. I doubt it though.
alodar1 said:
I don't know....my WiFi lags but doesn't crash. My BT is fine. Outlook syncs fine, but I've been syncing cloud stuff fine. Storage, I have 16gigs. Will I use more..who knows or cares. Hidden WiFi...something strange about that. Its hidden for a reason, if dvp could see it, ITT wouldn't be hidden. Seems like homey reasons to quit to me. But then again , you're not me. I got what I expected. Is it 100% perfect? Nope...but I wasn't expecting it to be. I wonder if iphone4 people are returning it because of the alarm...to me the best reason to return a phone is...i don't like it. All other reasons show up on most other phones too... Just my opinion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone syncs with Exchange not Outlook, 16GB is good for storage if all you want is music and videos, forget if you want other files and there is no explorer to find files anyways.
My company hides their SSID as many companies do, if you have the settings you can connect and my WM5 phones would connect but I can't with the latest and greatest from MS while people at my company with Android and iPhones connect with no issues.
For the money I spent I wasn't expecting a beta unit because this thing was not ready for primetime.
I'm keeping my 8GB model. I don't have any crashing issues whether or not WiFi is on.
It would be nice if the cam were better and there wasn't some slight hissing through headphones during quiet segments of music, but neither of these are deal breakers to me. Supposedly Dell is working on updating the cam software, but again, not a huge deal to me.
It it going back.
Dell support is no good and rude, most don't even know what the DVP is. Every step of my dealing with dell has been a pain from getting my phone to the 4 hours it took trying to get it activated with the rep from dell who kept trying to get me off the line so he could "call me back."
The phone is very nice but so not worth the hassle. Dell has given me the worst customer service I have ever had, no way in hell I am gonna be stuck dealing with them for the next 2 years.
Mine for some reason would not turn on unless I popped the battery multiple times. Kept losing service on the 2g/3g switch, photos were absolute trash.
I will miss what could of been, but this thing is going back. On to my iPhone.
Thanks To You All
Hi Ladies and Gents
I'm fairly new to these forums and just wanted to say thanks to you all for the great feed back on the DVP!! I'm from Canada, and as you all know we can't get the device up here unless we provide a US address...I've been working around this issue which I finally resolved, and now for the past 2 weeks or so have been going back and forth between the DVP or a Nexxus S. I soooo love the form factor of the DVP, but have decided that it's to risky to take a chance on getting a somewhat flawless device to work up here...it's going to take a lot of time and effort to get either of these devices, so I want to make the correct choice the first time....I to have had issues calling Dell just to try and figure out how to ship the darn thing, and have been bounced around so many times!!! Their CS is garbage...none of them know anything about the device!! I was willing to get it even with the RAM issues and the no multitasking/cut and paste, but all the other issues are just to great of a hurdle to jump. I know the Nexus S has it issues but it being pure Google, I know the support will be there...
Thanks Again for making a very hard decision that much easier, and good luck to you all whether you keep your DVP or send it back!!
Cheers!!
pakkei said:
4. Keyboard is not that well integrated. Turns out the "fn" key and "shift" key are highly unpredictable, since it doesn't have any indicator that it's simply on or locked on. I mistyped more password than I did with the soft keyboard. Therefore, it's not worth the bulk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not true, there is a symbol next to the (left) battery indicator, an arrow for caps and keep pressing the arrow button for caps lock, the icon changes
same way there is an icon for fn key
eyan15 said:
This is not true, there is a symbol next to the (left) battery indicator, an arrow for caps and keep pressing the arrow button for caps lock, the icon changes
same way there is an icon for fn key
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip. I was used to Android where the indicator is right at the cursor.
Already shipped it back in favor of my nexus S. Got tired of the constant crashes and decided I didn't want to be an early adopter of W7
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
think its interesting, well actually I think its funny really, and anyone on this thread with a long device history on this forum can attest,the actual reasons people give for liking or not liking a device. I extend that comment to the iPhone and nexus brands, as well as others. For example:
Crashes: every phone crashes. Everyone. Read the Engadget review about the crash macine....sorry , the nexus s. they all crash somewhere
..period
Camera: they all suck. If you're using a Dell but expect a Nikon , then your expectation sucks. Some are better, but none are good.
Configuration: don't even sit there and tell me what great configuration schemes Android has. The configuration is just as spacey on those devices too. How easy is it to get hotmail on iPhone? As easy as Google maps on wp7?
Cloud stuff: huh, what? Bottom line is it takes understanding and preparation. Once done, its done. Don't trust the Microsoft cloud, but trust the Google cloud...good luck with that.
Support: did someone sat Google support? I call bull****.
Best reason for returning the Dvp I have read so far is, "I tried the Nexus S, and it worked better for me". Great answer!!! Guy just stood up and said it. Cool. Not some bs answer like WiFi crashing...someone will find you over in some other forum posting about your other new phone crashing ...you know its true.
BTW, I heard the iPhone alarm still doesn't work, and what's this I'm reading about the latest undocumented feature on the Nexus. And the Incredible is doing what?? Droid!!! Great commercials.
I just like my Dell. I like my HD7 too. If you don't,that's fine...just watch the excuses...sorry, I mean reasons.
I want the one with the WiFi and most gb's.
Sorry for the rant...check out the other forums here and see if what I say isn't true!
alodar1 said:
think its interesting, well actually I think its funny really, and anyone on this thread with a long device history on this forum can attest,the actual reasons people give for liking or not liking a device. I extend that comment to the iPhone and nexus brands, as well as others. For example:
Crashes: every phone crashes. Everyone. Read the Engadget review about the crash macine....sorry , the nexus s. they all crash somewhere
..period
Camera: they all suck. If you're using a Dell but expect a Nikon , then your expectation sucks. Some are better, but none are good.
Configuration: don't even sit there and tell me what great configuration schemes Android has. The configuration is just as spacey on those devices too. How easy is it to get hotmail on iPhone? As easy as Google maps on wp7?
Cloud stuff: huh, what? Bottom line is it takes understanding and preparation. Once done, its done. Don't trust the Microsoft cloud, but trust the Google cloud...good luck with that.
Support: did someone sat Google support? I call bull****.
Best reason for returning the Dvp I have read so far is, "I tried the Nexus S, and it worked better for me". Great answer!!! Guy just stood up and said it. Cool. Not some bs answer like WiFi crashing...someone will find you over in some other forum posting about your other new phone crashing ...you know its true.
BTW, I heard the iPhone alarm still doesn't work, and what's this I'm reading about the latest undocumented feature on the Nexus. And the Incredible is doing what?? Droid!!! Great commercials.
I just like my Dell. I like my HD7 too. If you don't,that's fine...just watch the excuses...sorry, I mean reasons.
I want the one with the WiFi and most gb's.
Sorry for the rant...check out the other forums here and see if what I say isn't true!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Classic and spot on! The DVP isn't perfect, but its not the first, and won't be the last buggy phone to be released, and certainly if someone isn't happy with it they should return it. I tried an hd7, didn't like it and returned it, no fuss no muss. And I should say, I'm happy enough with mine and am keeping it, worst case scenario I use it for six months then get some other wp7 AWS device, if there ever is one.
alodar1 said:
BTW, I heard the iPhone alarm still doesn't work, and what's this I'm reading about the latest undocumented feature on the Nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, this is your best point? An alarm clock?
How about WinPho 7 alarm not overriding the music volume and not even going off?
As for crashes I can count the amount of time my iPhone has crashed on 1 hand and the amount of time my nexus one has crashed on 2. I apologize if I want something to work when I buy it. The DVP wouldn't even power on in some cases without pulling the battery. I'm sorry but if the phone is a headache just to turn on then I don't want it. Perhaps you disagree, but there is no need to come in here on a high horse trying to dictate what we should expect from a phones camera, or general usage.
Do I expect a nikon?
No I expect something that can take a decent shot ala the iPhone/Nexus 1/Nokia N8. Obviously there are phones on the market capable of taking great shots,so why should I as a consumer expect lesser performance? If you like a half-ass phone then so be it.
It the DVP the worst phone on the market?
No there is much worst out there, but once again there is much better and as a consumer I am going to go with what is best. I returned mine and hopefully another company gets it right eventually. But honestly the argument that there are buggier phones is pathetic.
alodar1 said:
think its interesting, well actually I think its funny really, and anyone on this thread with a long device history on this forum can attest,the actual reasons people give for liking or not liking a device. I extend that comment to the iPhone and nexus brands, as well as others. For example:
Crashes: every phone crashes. Everyone. Read the Engadget review about the crash macine....sorry , the nexus s. they all crash somewhere
..period
Camera: they all suck. If you're using a Dell but expect a Nikon , then your expectation sucks. Some are better, but none are good.
Configuration: don't even sit there and tell me what great configuration schemes Android has. The configuration is just as spacey on those devices too. How easy is it to get hotmail on iPhone? As easy as Google maps on wp7?
Cloud stuff: huh, what? Bottom line is it takes understanding and preparation. Once done, its done. Don't trust the Microsoft cloud, but trust the Google cloud...good luck with that.
Support: did someone sat Google support? I call bull****.
Best reason for returning the Dvp I have read so far is, "I tried the Nexus S, and it worked better for me". Great answer!!! Guy just stood up and said it. Cool. Not some bs answer like WiFi crashing...someone will find you over in some other forum posting about your other new phone crashing ...you know its true.
BTW, I heard the iPhone alarm still doesn't work, and what's this I'm reading about the latest undocumented feature on the Nexus. And the Incredible is doing what?? Droid!!! Great commercials.
I just like my Dell. I like my HD7 too. If you don't,that's fine...just watch the excuses...sorry, I mean reasons.
I want the one with the WiFi and most gb's.
Sorry for the rant...check out the other forums here and see if what I say isn't true!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With this kind of reasoning you might as well be happy buying a Vertu.
"Hey, this thing takes photos, and can read gmail too!!!!!! I just like my Vertu. If you don't like it, you have a problem!!"
All that I said was that the DVP is bigger than I need, and the keyboard is not as advantageous as I thought it to be. The camera is objectively worse than many camera phones out there, and Dell does not inspire confidence on whether there will even be firmware fixes or not. It's all pretty logical, IMO.
Seriously, don't get offended when people compare it with iPhone or Nexus S. I already tried to be fanboy-sensitive by comparing it to Samsung Focus. But if my post induces potential buyer's remorse on you, it's not my problem. This thread is to be shared with those who already had our remorse.
I love this phone but am hoping that they fix the issues. Most of the bugs that people have should be fixable with a replacement device. The crazy thing is that the initial Engineering Sample that I had seemed to have the least issues. The 16GB model I have in my hands now crashes all the time so I am hoping that it is just a bad phone and when I get my replacement it works as expected.
I expect many will return their phones because of the whole exchange process which is frustrating to say the least.
personally as a non standard smartphone user i plan to keep the device barring hardware malfunction
not really a big talker or texter and i dont mind the crashes as long as they only happen once a day
i can see how a person might be upset though if they spent half a grand on a phone they can only use on tmobile that has issues
glad i didnt buy off contract even though ill be stuck on tmo for 2 years i can always get another phone that uses tmo bands at full price
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Froyogate/112615255487997
Just started this page, like it if you do. I will update tomorrow. I know it wont do much, but it makes me feel better. If anyone wants to help, PM me here or on Facebook.
Why worry about this when you see things progressing? You're wasting your time, watch development and you will be happier than you would be with stock froyo anyway.
I see things progressing because off our devs, not because of verizon or samsung. I'm tired of big business getting away with anything they want. I get your point, but I'm still trying to get answers.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Quite frankly, no one will care about a Facebook page. Even if everyone on XDA with a Fascinate liked it, it still wouldn't be anywhere near an impressive number.
And Verizon/Samsung haven't really 'lied' to us (not counting their lower level reps, but no one should be trusting them anyways), they've never officially promised any sort of release date AFAIK... meaning long as they eventually release it, they'll have kept their promise (things like 'soon' are totally subjective, which is why they say them).
Verizon/Samsung have, simply put, just given us terrible support. We're low priority for them- we're basically an offbrand (i.e. not a Droid) phone, with a relatively small userbase. We're small fish in a big sea. Taken on top of Verizon & Samsungs already poor support, it really shouldn't be a surprise to us that we're still waiting for Froyo (unfortunately that's a lot easier to realize in retrospect... if I'd realized it back then, I'd have likely gone with the Incredible).
It is so sad that we are considered "not a droid". The one thing that attracted me to my Fascinate was the nice hardware, sweet screen, and the Android OS. I don't know what I would do without the devs around here. It's a shame that we have been swept under the rug by Samsung and VZW.
Sent from my ComaVolted Fascinate running SC 2.9.2
KitsuneKnight said:
Quite frankly, no one will care about a Facebook page. Even if everyone on XDA with a Fascinate liked it, it still wouldn't be anywhere near an impressive number.
And Verizon/Samsung haven't really 'lied' to us (not counting their lower level reps, but no one should be trusting them anyways), they've never officially promised any sort of release date AFAIK... meaning long as they eventually release it, they'll have kept their promise (things like 'soon' are totally subjective, which is why they say them).
Verizon/Samsung have, simply put, just given us terrible support. We're low priority for them- we're basically an offbrand (i.e. not a Droid) phone, with a relatively small userbase. We're small fish in a big sea. Taken on top of Verizon & Samsungs already poor support, it really shouldn't be a surprise to us that we're still waiting for Froyo (unfortunately that's a lot easier to realize in retrospect... if I'd realized it back then, I'd have likely gone with the Incredible).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but if we never take any action, the corportations will continue as usual and we will get even less actions. Corporations already run this country. Its not we the people anymore, its whatever corporate america buys in our congress.
Just like it! Is that a lot to ask?
Just vote with your wallet and don't buy samsung phones anymore.
Also, always make it a habite to tell anyone shopping for a phone about how bad samsung is and why they shouldn't buy a samsung phone.
It's amazing how many people are complaining about froyo, yet they get really excited when they hear about the Galaxy S 2 that's coming out soon!!!!
modus81 said:
Just vote with your wallet and don't buy samsung phones anymore.
Also, always make it a habite to tell anyone shopping for a phone about how bad samsung is and why they shouldn't buy a samsung phone.
It's amazing how many people are complaining about froyo, yet they get really excited when they hear about the Galaxy S 2 that's coming out soon!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will NEVER buy another samsung phone, Eff the Galaxy S2. It's too bad, the fascinate has some great qualities, but I refuse to give money to someone who doesn't care. I was burnt once, not gonna get me again. I'm debating if I leave Verizon, quite honestly.
I completely agree with you about voting with your wallet!
I will always argue that you should make your decisions based on the hardware. Not the software, not the manufacturer, not the carrier. Hardware will always win out, and Samsung makes great hardware.
Kevin Gossett said:
I will always argue that you should make your decisions based on the hardware. Not the software, not the manufacturer, not the carrier. Hardware will always win out, and Samsung makes great hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to say the same thing, based upon past experience with numerous WinMo phones.
I no longer agree. Not in the least. I had a Samsung WinMo, but my last two WinMo phones were HTC. Compared to this Samsung.....
a) The Samsung pulls 300ma max from the PC USB port. That is fine. It only pulls 650ma max from a 5 volt adapter. The phone can consume well over 650ma to operate as a car GPS (screen bright, downloading map data, etc). So, the battery can rather quickly die even plugged into a high rate charger in the car. I have never seen an HTC phone do that. If the operating current goes up, the HTC pulls more current from the charger. Usually up to about 1 amp. So if it is plugged into a high rate charger, the HTC phones will never drain the battery even in the worst conditions. Charge rate FAIL.
b) In total darkness, it is too bright. In bright sun, it is too dim. You can go to manual mode, and adjust to a good level, but that misses the point of having the AUTO sensor... Auto brightness adjust FAIL.
c) On my phone, when used for a long while on charge at high brightness (car again), the four bottom buttons appear to be pressed randomly. The phone becomes a worthless brick. According to Verizon, this is fairly normal for the generated heat and there isn't anything I can do but not use it when it is charging. FAIL button sensor sensitivity. (though I believe this is just my phone being defective, and I can't get it fixed)
d) Charge plug. Who designed that piece of garbage. Pretty much every plug I have, and I have a lot of them, had to be cut up in the front side to allow it to fully seat in the Samsung jack. FAIL plug placement.
e) No notification LED. What??? FAIL.
f) Minor items like the mediocre loudspeaker placement, no camera button, and slippery back cover add up to another FAIL IMHO.
I used to think highly of Samsung devices from my past experience. This device has tarnished that image. I would only recommend this phone to someone because I thought they might want to buy this one that I have.
So, I sent an email to verizon, and this is what I got....
Good afternoon Mr. ****,
Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. My name is Nicholas and resolving your issue is my top priority. I sincerely apologize that you are dissatisfied with the new froyo software update not being available for the Samsung Fascinate. I can recognize the importance in having the newest, most sophisticated software when purchasing new equipment. Despite all, I'm eager to assist with all of your concerns today.
Mr. *****, I can understand your urgency in regards to this matter. However, before new software is released, it must be approved by the manufacturer ( Samsung ) and Verizon Wireless. Therefore, based on this process I'm unable to provide a definitive answer as to when the froyo software update will be available for the Fascinate. This information is not readily available for the public. Nonetheless, if or when it becomes available you will receive a text on the handset prompting you to update your phone.
Additionally, based on your inconvenience I've issued a $ 50.00 courtesy credit on the account. The total credit amount of ( $ 50.00) , will appear on your next billing statement, ( Apr. 26, 2011 ), and will include an additional adjustment for taxes if applicable. You can check your revised balance immediately by dialing from you wireless device, # BAL and the SEND button. You will be connected with an automated system which will relay your account balance as a free text message to your wireless phone. You may also continue to listen and follow the voice prompts to receive the information airtime-free. You will be provided with the amount and date of your most recent payment, as well as your current balance due.
Lastly, I am also pleased to offer you the option of obtaining a new device with the software update currently, if it doesn't become available for the Fascinate. This offer will not extend your contract nor upgrade date. If you wish to take advantage of this option, you may contact me directly at ( 803 ) 231 - 1825 / Mon - Fri / 2:30pm. - 11:00pm. For your added convenience, below I've listed a link that includes our available device line - up. I hope you find this information to be beneficial:
So it does pay to continue to fight the good fight! I suggest you ALL email verizon and let them know your unhappy!!!
My old Samsung dumb-phone was wonderful. I took crap care of it, and it took a beating (I'd frequently toss it), I'd never give a single concern for maintaining the battery, it got great signal pretty much everywhere (when I went to the woods with a bunch of people, the people on AT&T would have a paper weight, the other people on Verizon would have occasional signal, and I'd have consistent, albeit poor, signal), and I'd easily go a week on a charge.
Occasionally I'd get hit by a software bug, like once ever several months, but over the several years I had the phone (5+ I think?), those were quite few in number.
My Fascinate, on the other hand, other than the screen the hardware seems moderate at best. The processor/GPU don't matter a lot long as they're at least as good as what 'most people' have, since generally programs are designed to be used on the more common phones. Now the GPU could have been leveraged on Gingerbread, but, we don't really have Gingerbread, although people like PK are working on it.
There's also 'only' 384 MBs of usable RAM in the phone, meaning less apps can be kept asleep in the background, causing apps to have to save their state & be restarted more often (IIRC, all the other Galaxy S phones have 512 usable!).
Then there's the GPS. It was flat out broken when Samsung released this phone, and I still have a horrible GPS- the other day it took ~25 minutes for the GPS to lock (even after downloading AGPS data, and getting the no help that cellular triangulation and wifi location services provides), just in time for us to miss the turn to our destination! (resulting in everyone agreeing that my phone "sucked").
No notification LED... we've had to work around that with 'No LED' and BLN- hardly ideal solutions... more like clever hacks. 802.11N also doesn't support the 5Ghz band, apparently... lovely. The battery life is also nothing to write home about. And there's quite a number of other shortcomings with this phone's hardware.
Is the Fascinate's hardware horrible? No, with the exception of the screen (which is quite good), most of it's around par, some above, some below. But the Fascinate's problem is it's crippled by horrible software! Our Devs will fix that, you say? So how's that CM7 working for you? MIUI? AOSP? Your options, at this point, are either use a hacked up Samsung ROM, or lose various hardware support. Is it because our devs suck? Hell no, they've long since shown they're damn good at what they do- but even so they can only do so much at a time. Take the best hardware in the world, but put **** software on it, and you've got ****. Bad software will ruin any hardware.
Good software on bad hardware, though, can at least make the hardware bearable. Next time, I'm picking my phone based off which actually has a fully custom ROMs ported to it, like MIUI or CyanogenMod- that should be a good indicator of how good the software support should be- then I'll go by hardware.
Edit: New post while I was writing... Does "obtaining a new device" mean, "trade in for a phone with Froyo"? If so... that's quite surprising, and it'd be interesting exactly what phones are available for that. Although, at this point, I just feel like taking it until my renewal comes around- all the phones are going to be far superior by then, and, with any luck, this sort of BS will have been reined in by Google.
Im going to call tomorrow and see what that means....but its a start. 50 bucks off my bill is nice!
modus81 said:
Just vote with your wallet and don't buy samsung phones anymore.
Also, always make it a habite to tell anyone shopping for a phone about how bad samsung is and why they shouldn't buy a samsung phone.
It's amazing how many people are complaining about froyo, yet they get really excited when they hear about the Galaxy S 2 that's coming out soon!!!!
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but look at the specs on the galaxy S2, at least here in america its gonna have the samsung Exynos chip that is a 1.2 Ghz Dual Core, 1 GB of RAM a super AMOLED+ screen and does FULL HD VIDEO </Sarcasm>
sounds nice but knowing samsung it won't receive any support i've only had this phone since thursday and i really, really don't like it and wish that even with the locked bootloader i had gone with the droid X simply because i'd like to have gingerbread instead of eclair, though putting the miui alpha on it sorta make the fascinate worth while
420fan said:
So, I sent an email to verizon, and this is what I got....
Good afternoon Mr. ****,
Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. My name is Nicholas and resolving your issue is my top priority. I sincerely apologize that you are dissatisfied with the new froyo software update not being available for the Samsung Fascinate. I can recognize the importance in having the newest, most sophisticated software when purchasing new equipment. Despite all, I'm eager to assist with all of your concerns today.
Mr. *****, I can understand your urgency in regards to this matter. However, before new software is released, it must be approved by the manufacturer ( Samsung ) and Verizon Wireless. Therefore, based on this process I'm unable to provide a definitive answer as to when the froyo software update will be available for the Fascinate. This information is not readily available for the public. Nonetheless, if or when it becomes available you will receive a text on the handset prompting you to update your phone.
Additionally, based on your inconvenience I've issued a $ 50.00 courtesy credit on the account. The total credit amount of ( $ 50.00) , will appear on your next billing statement, ( Apr. 26, 2011 ), and will include an additional adjustment for taxes if applicable. You can check your revised balance immediately by dialing from you wireless device, # BAL and the SEND button. You will be connected with an automated system which will relay your account balance as a free text message to your wireless phone. You may also continue to listen and follow the voice prompts to receive the information airtime-free. You will be provided with the amount and date of your most recent payment, as well as your current balance due.
Lastly, I am also pleased to offer you the option of obtaining a new device with the software update currently, if it doesn't become available for the Fascinate. This offer will not extend your contract nor upgrade date. If you wish to take advantage of this option, you may contact me directly at ( 803 ) 231 - 1825 / Mon - Fri / 2:30pm. - 11:00pm. For your added convenience, below I've listed a link that includes our available device line - up. I hope you find this information to be beneficial:
So it does pay to continue to fight the good fight! I suggest you ALL email verizon and let them know your unhappy!!!
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Click to collapse
If you dont mind me asking, what all was in your email? It may be beneficial to know the way you went about contacting them if there are those (like myself wishing to get a tbolt lol) that want to go this route. Also what email address did you send the complaint to?
Neuman.Tim said:
If you dont mind me asking, what all was in your email? It may be beneficial to know the way you went about contacting them if there are those (like myself wishing to get a tbolt lol) that want to go this route. Also what email address did you send the complaint to?
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yea, I emailed and they called me back. They offered to give me a new phone line instead... I would also have to pay for another phone... Bogus... What did you tell them?
I've looked for the email on yhier website and all and I can't find it. Anyone got a quick link to it?
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/index.jsp
is the page I used.
Email I sent
Why am I still waiting for my fascinate to be updated to froyo? All the other galaxy S phones have received it, Samsung has given you the code, now I am curious as to why we still don't have it. I was told when I purchased the phone that it would be 'soon'. I did a lot of research and am tired of being lied to by your company. Your contract states that I can't lie to you, but your are not held responsible for what an agent tells me. WTF is that?? You will probably loose my business when my contract is up, and maybe even before if I can sell this phone. Why won't you take care of your existing customers? Too busy trying to sell 4G when its not even in my area. I was told 'soon' about that too! I understand that the email I will get will say Im sorry for the delay, but we are working hard at it....BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!
420fan said:
I see things progressing because off our devs, not because of verizon or samsung. I'm tired of big business getting away with anything they want. I get your point, but I'm still trying to get answers.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
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I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. While it's very true that our devs are to be applauded for their efforts, the very reason that we have working Froyo roms like SuperClean (aside from jt's AOSP, which still is lacking a few features) is because of leaked builds from Samsung/Verizon. Our devs did not make those, only released them and cleaned them up a bit. We have three leaked builds total now, so there is no longer any basis upon which to claim that the official update will not be released. They would not be putting that much work into builds for this phone if they did not intend to release it once it's complete. Also, I think we should be grateful that they are taking the time to properly fix issues like GPS, which the new radio does, instead of rushing a new release with more bugs.
I too am disappointed at the time it's taking for them to get this release out, but it is clearly coming, and soon, if the last leak is any evidence at all, so I think we all just need to remain patient for a little bit longer. However, I do have one question. We have had working Froyo roms here for quite some time now. If you're posting here on XDA, I can only assume you're interested in modifying your phone, as opposed to leaving it stock, since that is, after all, what XDA is all about. If that is true, why are you still complaining about the lack of official release? Just install SuperClean or your rom of choice and move on.
Sent from XDA Premium on my Super Clean Fascinate
I have seen numerous HTC fans spew crap about Samsung for updates and build quality issues. For example, many state that the plastic build quality is of very low quality, of which is very opposite in reality in which in plastic is actually very solid. I have dropped my Vibrant many times and it still looks like new, can't say that about metal which dents and gets dinged. As for updates, blame your carriers. The international versions got updates several months before the carrier versions.
Here are some quotes from some obvious HTC users.
"Last year, Consumer Reports (a major U.S. publication) branded the U.S. Galaxy S versions as some of the best Android phones. Not only were they NOT the best, they were missing some basic functionality and lagged like a phone from a previous generation. Let's not even talk about lack of support from Samsung. Too many people fall for the SAMOLED eye candy and ignore everything else."
Or "Thank god I have some help.. hehe I honestly dunno why these SamSux people think S G II is pretty muhahua. It's one ugly plastic crap i've ever seen. They keep coming in HTC thread telling people to buy their plastic crap. "
Or "Another troll just childish, u will se Samsung will never have so awesome devs like HTC phones have especially when.I look at the desire section, a lot of them will buy a sensation and that's the reason why i will buy one to "
What do you think about the public conception of Samsung here at XDA?
The first quote is spot on. The lag was unbearable, the GPS inop, and support was nonexistent. Samoled was nice until you seen the jagged text. Battery life was also terrible. The phones are usable now, after 3-4 updates (updates that were bricking phones and frying storage, mind you) but the GPS is still borderline useless for lots of people and it still lags more than a Samsung jack wm6.5 device (by a long shot).
I they do better with the s2 good for them, but they are indefendable irt these phones. Hype can only get you so far...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
N8ter said:
The first quote is spot on. The lag was unbearable, the GPS inop, and support was nonexistent. Samoled was nice until you seen the jagged text. Battery life was also terrible. The phones are usable now, after 3-4 updates (updates that were bricking phones and frying storage, mind you) but the GPS is still borderline useless for lots of people and it still lags more than a Samsung jack wm6.5 device (by a long shot).
I they do better with the s2 good for them, but they are indefendable irt these phones. Hype can only get you so far...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
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Way to read my first paragraph. Support was due to the carriers, not Samsung directly. And I still do not understand what this lag is, even on JFD I had installed 30 apps and still little to no lag for me.
And the jagged text? have both a HD7 and a HD2 with me no, and I see no difference worth speaking of between the screens. I do 20/20 vision.
Battery life terrible? Wait till you see the desire HD or thunderbolt. The GS2 has also been reported to have good battery life.
Have you even tried a custom rom N8ter? CM7 nevers lags, even when underclocked to 400 mhz. And as to that HTC phones work better out of the box statement, we are on XDA. Hell, many of those HTC fanboys wanted the Sensation due to the dev attention they believed it would get, even with a locked bootloader.
I don't mod my phones and nor should anyone be expected to. The performance of the phone now is usable. Where was cyanogen in august to December 2010, though?
Don't answer that.
Bunch of excuses. What you quoted is true.
Text on a samoled panel is more jagged than on others. Its a side effect of the pen tile pixel arrangement used. Its very noticeable when you have white text on a black background - at least for me it is.
These panels also suffer from burnin more than any other screen type I've used.
Support from carriers does not help when the hardware is faulty (gps)'or the device has design flaw like rfs. Samsung can push out an update that replaces rfs. They choose not to. They should have recalled phones with known hw gps falls but.they just blamed it on the users andbgave them a useless tool to rwser some setting many of us never touched to begin with.
I read your whole post btw, bit I'm typing from devices so stop acting.like I'm obligated to comment on or rebut every tucking thing in it...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
The way I see it is why would anyone buy an android and use it stock lol considering stock is garbage to custom roms. End of story
This is the fourth vibrant I've had, gps was piss poor, and I was able to get new ones because of it. This newest handset has really good locks. I like the phone even after the gps problems. I bought an otter box and some ghost armor. With the case it feels solid. I know not everyone will get a case to make the phone feel built but it's nice. Id buy another samsung device no problem. I like the feel and ease of use.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Bionix next gen
Overstock kernel to 1.2
kb5 modem
Fact: Despite samsung's delay in releasing froyo for the vibrant and it's GPS problems, the vibrant was/is still a greatr phone with an awesome display and great hardware!
Guys , am just wating for galaxy s 2 , rumour has it that it is going to be the best smart phone for a long time!!
I have to agree with N8ter. This will probably be my last Samsung device. I told myself from the start I'd never get another Samsung device, but it was all Asurion had to replace my water-damaged, but beloved N1. Ugh. I wish I had waited for them to get something else.
The lag KILLS me! I want to throw the damn phone against the wall or some concrete almost daily. Samsung could have definitely kept RFS to their damn selves. Even the browser lags on me most times.
I get a bunch of missed calls even when I have full coverage. The only way I'd even know I would miss them is if my girlfriend would text me to pick up my phone or check Google Voice for missed calls.
The GPS... yeah. Go back to the comment about me wanting to throw my phone against the hardest surface available, and multiply that by 100. The GPS has almost made me late for several appointments (job interviews, drug testing, etc.), and actually gotten me lost in my own native home of Atlanta. I don't get how the hell the GPS can possibly think I'm somewhere .5 miles away then where I am actually am.
I absolutely hate how it doesn't have an LED. NoLED does the job, but isn't really what I would call a suitable replacement.
I also hate how it looks like an iPhone. If I wanted an iPhone lookalike, I would have went out and bought an iPhone. I am really tired of people always asking me, "Is that an iPhone?"
I also despise TouchWiz. I despise manufacturer skins in general, but touchwiz REALLY grinds my gears.
One of the very few good redeeming qualities about this damn phone is the amount of internal storage, but which I barely make use of b/c of wanting to keep all of files stored on my external. I also like the dev tools they have, such as Odin. It's saved me a couple of times from bad flashing and just plain operator error. I also like how easy it was to install the front facing camera. But, then again, why the hell should I have to install it in the first place?
Overall, I am not a happy camper with Samsung. Once I start this new job, or get my financial aid refund check , it's definitely time for a new phone, and it sure as hell won't be Samsung. I was thinking about giving this phone to my girlfriend to replace her T-Mobile Tap, but I don't know if I want to torture her that much.
P.S. This is after using custom roms. God forbid how horrid my experience would have been on stock. I think I might have really thrown it in oncoming traffic.
its obvious that you're stuck in your mindset, so why even start a thread? its useless. coming from an owner of both brands, each have pros and cons. my epic and inspire both have poor battery life. inspire is smooth while the epic lags. furthermore, my epic has better overall display, but the inspire looks better picture wise, not contrast or color, quality. my point is, phones appeal to one person or another. no need for a useless thread targeting one manufacturer.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
Glad to see Samsung has learned their lesson, they have released sgs2 with unlocked boot loader and they just released sgs2 source as well
Thanks Samsung, I'll prefer you over htc and motorola
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
I am quite satisfied with my vibrant coming from an HD2 NAND.
It is quite fast and has a much more pleasant desing than most other HTC phones.
Only problem is the HORRIBLE gps.
mugenfiji0327 said:
You are just whining and repeating what other members have stated so many times in this thread. HTC sucks, Samsung will always be better. All the problems that you are whining about disappeared when custom roms came. That's the point of custom roms so you don't have to use the crappy stock firmware. Anyway if you are still having trouble after using a custom rom and still think you have room to complain, then you probably shouldn't even own an android device and it is most likely user error. You're just an HTC fanboy, I am not saying that Samsung is the best but they are better than HTC. On top of that the Vibrant outdoes most of the new phones and all of the older phones that T-mobile has and it's over 6 months old. So quit basing your opinions on the phone off of your HTC loyalty.
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And you're a closed-minded Samsung fanboy so you can take your opinion and go eat shi* for all I care. Most of my complaints might have been stated already, but clearly the more times it's stated proves it's not just isolated incidents. I'm not basing my phone off of any loyalty. I'm basing it off of the fact that it frustrates the hell out of me. And I assure you it's not user error. I've been dealing with computers and electronics and modding etc since I was 7 and am a computer science major, so I assure you it's not user error. Every single one of those problems has persisted since I used a custom rom, and who the hell are you to tell me I shouldn't own an Android device? I know all about custom roms and have been using them since I got my first smartphone, the HTC wizard. If you think Samsung is better than HTC, that's fine. We're all entitled to our opinion. I, however, could care less about another Samsung phone ever again. I really regret the day my Nexus One fell in that pot of water.
mugenfiji0327 said:
Every HTC phone that I have ever owned or seen has been the most worthless product. I would rather dig an old razr out from the bottom of a dumpster and use it than to ever use an HTC product again. All they have is cons, no pros at all.
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Click to collapse
And you call me a fanboy. Yeah. Ok. At least I'm willing to admit this phone does have some pros.
I like the sgs line. Sure, there not the best out there, but as a rom chef and themer, I can honestly say this this phone is the best for that. Almost unbrickable. Don't forget, with HTC and moto(dont quote me on moto), they don't have Odin. That is a HUGE selling point for me. I would be pissed if I spent $x on a HTC phone, and had a bad flash. Now its a door stop. Just my .2.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
mugenfiji0327 said:
Everybody always runs to the I'm a computer science major and I've been working with technology since I was this age excuse.BS, I don't buy one word of that and I am willing to bet a lot on the fact that it is user error and you most likely do not even know close to what you are saying you know. If you are a computer science major then instead of complaining about the problems then why don't you fix them tough guy ? That's what I thought, full of bs just like every other troll on every other forum. I'm not a Samung fanboy or close minded I just know that samsung is and always will be better than the worthless company known as HTC that you love oh so much.
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Click to collapse
Lol. Quite frankly I don't give a damn WHAT you believe. I don't have to prove myself to some anonymous person on the internet. You can eat **** and die for all I care. I know it's not user error. Even if I don't have the know how to go in and fix Samsung's mistakes myself, yet, I know how to read carefully and apply others' fixes. So go troll someone else. Like I said, it's your OPINION that Samsung is the better company, and that's fine. But, as for myself, I know I won't be giving Samsung another chance.
Good day to you.
I have seen Plastic = poor build quality in US mostly.
it's a loyalty thing, you know the last HTC device i owned was actually an I-Mate. still to this day I remember how damn awesome that thing was. swivel screen, Large Keyboard, solid PLASTIC construction, stereo speakers, 3.5 jack. etc. OS blew, think it was windows mobile umm 5? i know i ran 6.5 on it before i upgraded.
this phone was a beast. and the last HTC built device i ever owned as i switched to nokia and sony Ericsson smart phone devices, somehow i ended up with a samsung i900 Omnia (gsm) and have stuck with samsung since.
http://www.gsmarena.com/i_mate_jasjar-1262.php <--Beast.
Pretty cool ! I like how it supported 3g video calling in 2005 I had a Nokia 6630 then
To each their own.
I am commited to buying a usa sgs2. Why with the terrible support we've had? I truely think that samsung has learned their lesson. Releasing the source so soon after the phones launch is amazing. I have also read just about every review and watched every video. Its exactly the experience I want.
Even with all the problems of the sgs... I still love it. The reason why I know I love it is cause I am currently using a mytouch 4g. Its great that I can overclock it to 1.5ghz. Frankly I am really starting to miss my vibrant. I Love that phone. With its ****ty gps and its laggy ass stock ui and its horrible support. I am after all A tinker at heart!
mugenfiji0327 said:
I'm not trolling, I'm just simply trying to get an ignorant bullshitter to shut his mouth that's all. As far as I know that's not trolling,it's doing the forum a favor.
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I don't have time to argue with a close-minded idiot. If you can't accept other people have opinions different from yours, then that's your problem. Now, I said good day.
boystuff said:
it's a loyalty thing, you know the last HTC device i owned was actually an I-Mate. still to this day I remember how damn awesome that thing was. swivel screen, Large Keyboard, solid PLASTIC construction, stereo speakers, 3.5 jack. etc. OS blew, think it was windows mobile umm 5? i know i ran 6.5 on it before i upgraded.
this phone was a beast. and the last HTC built device i ever owned as i switched to nokia and sony Ericsson smart phone devices, somehow i ended up with a samsung i900 Omnia (gsm) and have stuck with samsung since.
http://www.gsmarena.com/i_mate_jasjar-1262.php <--Beast.
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Click to collapse
A friend of mine still uses this as his daily phone, he managed to preserved it all this long in a mint condition too