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This community is so damn innovative and cooperative, it amazes me what software/ROMS get cooked here which really add a lot of productivity value to me, transforming a tedious, hard-to-read Windows Mobile User Interface into a tool that really works on the go. And I've been equally impressed by the collaborative spirit of this community in problem solving and feature tweeks.
Thus I am curious if there is an organized policy here that helps us end-users deter the scammers who grab software from XDA-developers, bundle it, and sell it across the web. I'm speaking of a prominent spot on the home page and within the information design of these forums that, just like the "Missing Kids" alerts on milk cartons, highlights prominently the latest scammers stealing work here.
I understand this forum is for actual development, but truth is this issue gets lost in "General" forums. Because it's the people who hack here who are the people being hurt directly.
Though I signed onto XDA over a year ago, and have read volumes re my T-mobile MDA and software upgrades here, I ended up being nonetheless too nervous to follow the very clear instructions posted last year with all if the various WM 6 roms developed here. And I never did upgrade.
But I have a WING now, and I wanted an iphone theme and user interface. Again I read all the sticky threads for the Herald, as well as the links from the wiki for that specific phone. After several days of trying to figure out "should I be first flashing my T-mobile ROM to a more efficient one, before then seeking to install one of the iphone themes and apps like A_C's S2U2 etc. I then did a dumb consumer thing: when searching this site using Google, I followed the links to one or two of the GOOGLE AD-WORDS hawking an iPhone theme on your PocketPC.
Long story short, I got scammed of $10 for something that was outdated and didn't even install properly on my WING... But I'd been "comforted" by the presentation on their website, http://iphonethemeforpocketpc.com , thinking I would get my head cleared of the confusion that mounts when I'd dig down deep into the many discussions of so many ROMs & themes & apps here. I got burned, that was bad enough. But it then pissed me off doubly that superior software would be found here at XDA -- and more than likely some of that guy's component cab files were simply stolen from developers right here.
I ended up back here and successfully installed the ifonz theme, A_C's S2U2 (the scam site had an old slide2unlock version... bit as everyone here knows, A_C's app is superb. I also installed Contact Manager (amazing!), PCM keyboard (what an improvement over windows), and MortPlayer (fantastic). I intend to donate to each program author.
But the purpose of this post is this: I filed a dispute with PayPal (requires login) over this scammer's non-working product and absolute refusal to even reply to my early "friendly" emails seeking install help. Went through PayPal's Resolution Center "escalation process" -- after no reply from the seller to PayPal -- and my dispute became a CLAIM for Paypal to determine outcome. PayPal's reply, denying the claim, states that they reviewed all communications and investigated the issue fully (totally not true).
I could have stopped there -- afterall i'd long ago expended way more than $10 worth of my time -- but it was for the principle of it. So I called PayPal, went through all the menu-options, screenings, and hold queues, and finally spoke to an actual Resolution Agent -- who was very nice, & actually very helpful.
However: I learned then, from her, what many of you may already know -- but I wonder DOES everyone know?, because I sure didn't... She told me that anything digital or downloadable is not even covered with any Buyer Protection as disclosed in PayPal's terms of service. So the claim got closed automatically because it didn't qualify for any dispute resolution. I was really surprised by this, that no downloadable software is subject to dispute/resolution policies -- and that's why I am writing this thread, as a service (I *hope*) to all you developers.
I first did a search here on the boards for "scams", because I wanted to find a place on this site to DISPLAY CLEARLY---> Here is a scamsite --> make sure your stuff is not being sold there. That's when I saw this sampling of threads, below, and had to wonder, is there a policy here that is clear and easy to find (NO! not that I can see!) that helps developers here by giving us end-users a place to post the hit-list of scammers on ebay, on iphonetheme websites, etc. ?
If so, I missed it in the information design here. If not, I recommend it. I know it burns you guys who are being ripped off -- but it also ticks off less-sophisticated community members like me (end-users of your hard work) to see your works exploited -- given especially their innovation and performance tweeks.
Here are just a few of the threads I found from this year, from March 08, where people reported being ripped off by people selling their works. In my view, I don't think that's enough or sufficient to just have someone start a thread saying "beware of X, Y or Z". And that's why I posted this. Thanks to all of you who make the lives of end-users more productive with your great work.
q/s
Name And Shame Ebayer Stealing Xdev Material
Bastards selling my Unlocker
Thief On The Loose At Hofo and possibly xda!
wow.. no reply. well i know i'm verbose, but i thought this would at least get a reply that explained yes/no if the site has designated a specific area to broadcast who are the current scammers operating out on he internets...
Should I be posting this into a different forum? if so, which one please/ thanks
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
alongenemylines said:
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There have been instances where its come to the attention of the community here and the developers of ROMS and programs that their work is being packaged and sold on ebay and the like. Obviously this behavior is viewed very negatively. While there is no policy or "organized" efforts to monitor and react, when someone does point out an instance, the community members rally around and do what they can to call the guy out, and warn potential scammees of it. Ebay is often notified directly, and also comments on the sellers postings on ebay are made to warn.
And yes, your post is verbose
so after posting an excerpt of my letter to Dan Morrill, the author of the absolutely idiotic statement regarding what they're doing, i received several PMs asking me to post the whole thing. It's so long it wont fit in a single post, so read it all. if you dont want to read a wall of text, stop here and go to a new thread.
Mr. Morrill,
First, I would like to bid you a good day, as I'm sure this letter is going to effect it. Yes, that is a bold statement to make at the onset, but writings such as these have a way of eating their way into your psyche and leaving a lasting impression that could very well sour your appetite at lunch time.
Perhaps I should introduce myself. My name is XXXXXXXXXXXXX, and I am an amateur developer on the Android platform. I am also a user of many of the custom Android builds that have come out since the release of the source development kit, including the build made by Steve "Cyanogen" Kondik. Ah, yes, now you see what this letter is going to be about.
So lets start with the basics. Google is a multi-billion dollar corporation that released a supposedly open-source platform onto the mobile device market. Now, I say mobile device as opposed to mobile phone, simply because there are products being released, such as the Zii EGG, which do not support telecommuniations, yet are still running on the Android platform. Now, in any reasonable programmers mind, the reason for making a platform open source, regardless of what the Public Relations people spin it as, is to alleviate some of the burden on the actual in-house development teams. The source code created by thousands of bright minds is doubtless going to yield a much stonger end result than that of a small development squad. Its simple mathematics. Well, that point alongside the fact that the original linux developers made no secret of their intentions by open-sourcing their operating system, which paved the way for Android many many years later.
In addition to that, all of the applications included in the "stock", or unmodified and officially released Android, builds are free. Any user with internet access can use any of these functions through the internet, with the blessings of your employer, free of charge. Yet, somehow, this has caused a sort of hiccup between your supposed idea of free development and that of the general public. Now, before you warp your mind into "this guy doesnt know what he's talking about" mode, think about the principles that your company was founded upon. You wanted to beat out the corporate giants and look out for the little guy. Oh yes, I've done my homework on Google over the years. The benevolent company trying to provide free services for the masses that the "evil-empire" corporations would deny free access to. Ironically enough, this letter is being written to you on Google Docs, another of your free services. Quite troublesome, it would seem.
And now, lest I digress further, I'll shift to the meat of the topic. In your statement regarding the cease and desist letter to Mr. Kondik, you claim that the sales of your free software to be used on mobile platforms being provided to the end user by custom developers for free would hurt the bottom line. Perhaps you should re-examine your own words. Free software being given to the masses by developers whom you claim to encourage is huring your profit share because you cannot sell the use of it to large corporations. Pardon me if I fail to understand the rationale behind such a contradictory and obviously ridiculous statement. But just so that you can understand my position on the matter, lets look at a related position. Google produces an internet browser, Chrome. Mozilla, a competing franchise, produces Firefox, their own browser. Developers for firefox have created applications which borrow on Google's proprietary code to access the functionality of the various features and programs. Are these developers charged for being able to include such features? No. Are these developers caused to halt their activities through threats of legal action for providing end users access to the capabilities that Google readily offers for free? No. So where is the disparity between allowing a competitor to do such things and tying the hands of developers of YOUR open source platform from doing the same?
Before I go further, let me give you a little background on myself to illuminate things. I used to work for XXXXXXXXXXXXXX. I worked in one of their call centers with well over a thousand people, almost a quarter of whom purchased the G1. More than 50% of those users had custom builds running on their phones. How would I know this? I personally installed it on over 300 and gave instructions to many more who wanted to do it themselves. This was one call center. But your apparent attitude on the situation makes it apparent that providing these people with custom software that includes the Google-based programs that were ORIGINALLY ON THE DEVICE AT PURCHASE, is illegal. I'm sorry sir, but that notion is preposterous. All of the Android-based mobile platforms on the market today include the software that caused you to send Mr. Kondik a cease and desist letter. This means that every single end user who purchased one of the devices paid that bottom line you spoke of. Any other rationale is impossible. Non-supporting devices will not run Android, and as such, the only way to use the device is to have purchased one. This brings us to the logical conclusion that those applications, such as GMail and Google Talk are PAID FOR. The situation is equitable to this situation: Joe purchases a computer from a major distributor, say Dell. Dell gives Joe a complimentary piece of free software (available on the Dell website) which updates his drivers on the Dell website, included with his purchase. Joe decides he doesnt particularly like the operating system on the computer, and installs an operating system more to his liking, that also happens to include the Dell software. But lo-and-behold, that free software shouldnt be free to Joe, even though he paid Dell's bottom line through his original computer purchase.
Your flaw is that you are obviously trying to "spin" the situation. Unfortunately, its a thin disguise and everyone can see through it, clear as crystal. These people that I speak of? Developers. The developers whom you claim to encourage. This brings me to my next point. Developers are essentially software hackers. They take the code from a program, rip it apart, improve on it, and then put it back out on the market for other developers to toy with. Perhaps, in your travels as a computer programmer, you have come across a copy of the much fabled "hacker's manifesto". Free access to data. That is what it was about at its core philosophy. You claimed to provide developers with that free access through Android, and then punish the people whom you claim to support.
Have you ever seen "The Devil's Advocate", Mr. Morrill? Al Pacino has an excellent line in which he is describing the way God imbued man with instinct, saying "Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow." Is this not what you've done here? You've given us, the developers, what you claim to be an open-source platform, written for mobile platforms that contain previously installed versions of the software, and also containing applications that each and every possible user would have purchased through buying the device on which they run. Then you tell us that it is illegal for us to modify any portion of that software which you see fit at any given point in time. Perhaps you should have just kept it closed-source, so that anything innovative wouldnt stir controvversy, as it would have truly been illegal. You give us a gift and then set the rules in opposition as it suits you.
Now, if I havent struck a nerve yet, perhaps I will in my own belief on the subject. You FEAR us. The android development team put out an initial platform. The developers, using the source code given to us, have turned out platforms on several different versions that utilize more functionality with greater performance, more flexibility and a wider range of features than ANYTHING that the official releases have even come close to. Mr. Kondik's releases are a prime example of this. He has created a version of the platform which utilizes every aspect of the platform infinitely better than the official releases. He has also included functionality from FUTURE releases, constantly and consistently improving on such, in a timeframe that should have your development team in absolute hysterics. That, sir, is what I believe this is about. Fear and shame. Never did you imagine that the Android development community would be able to surpass the Godly heights of the original development team, but we have and continually do so. It's his popularity that earned him the letter. He posed the biggest threat to your team by sharing a creative vision with anyone willing to install it that your team couldn't possibly compete with. But what about all of the other major developers? As of right now, I can count over a hundred different custom builds that include much of the same functionality and applications that Mr. Kondik's software includes. Are you going to attempt to stop them too?
(continued in post #2)
I assume you have been on the internet before. I assume you know that it spans the globe and has absolutely no limits or boundaries. It is freedom at its peak. Anyone, anywhere can express anything they want. The beautiful thing is that it enables people to communicate, and thereby collaborate in real-time. An internet community with thirty thousand people doesnt have to find a meeting room with enough chairs. This is the problem you're facing. You have attempted to cut the head off of a snake that you created. Unfortunately, on the internet, when you cut off the head of a snake, the body doesnt die. A thousand more heads spawn in its place, angrier, defiant and more intent on their purpose. Perhaps that should be a wake up call.
Mr. Morrill, I hope that in reading this letter, you have come to realize the gravity of your position. You have not only hurt yourselves, but angered an entire community, consisting of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people. These are the people who write the applications that are sold on the Android Market. These are the people who have the time to spare to ensure that you still have a job by creating works of digital art, using the code that you claim to be "open source". Are you so obtuse as to believe that these people are going to slip silently into the night when their creativity is stifled by the whims of a multibillion dollar corporation? I think not, sir.
You simply cannot give freedom to the masses and then attempt to bind their hands, as you are attempting to do in this case. This has ended in cataclysmic failure for every culture and every authority that has attempted to do so in history. We live in a global society of ingenuity. People WILL find a way. The creative power of the developers of the android community will inevitably break you. History has shown ample evidence that a creative mind cannot be beaten down. No army of lawyers, no amount of cease and desist letters will stop the tide of creativity.
It's like a bear. The choice you had was to embrace this creativity and nurture it or to poke at it with a stick. Mr. Morrill, are you aware of the consequences of poking a bear with a stick? Some thought on that will bring you to an obvious, and quite unpleasant, conclusion.
Had you simply left well enough alone, the damage might have been minimal, but at this point you could be looking at a 2009 reenactment of the Boston Tea Party, with the Android platform playing the part of the British tea. The damage to your "bottom line" was so infinitesimally small as to equate to a mouse burping on a rush hour subway car in New York City. As stated previously, it is simply my belief that your development team was offended by the fact that amateur developers would put them to shame. Does Android come with a complimentary set of swim trunks? Perhaps you might invest. I hear Boston Harbor gets cold in the winter.
In closing, perhaps you should let the immortal words of Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto echo through your mind as you contemplate the statements made in this letter:
"I fear that all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve".
Mr. Morrill, the giant is awake now, and his resolve is beyond your wildest dreams. I truly hope you are prepared to reap the consequences of what you have put in motion.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
amazing. your right they do fear us and they have woken a sleeping giant. what i dont get is the fact that these roms are making this phone better. as you said you gave over 300 people instructions how to do this at the call center. if anything these devs are helping google make sales, and google doesnt even have to make a better product. they make they same thing tht has been out since 0ct.22.2008 and the devs make it better. you sir are a god among men.
Wow, great letter, really looking forward to hearing the response to this - If you'd post it that is ;-)
You misspelt "purchased" in the eighth paragraph btw
yeah, this was the pre-spell-checked rough draft. the copy that i sent him was clean as a whistle.
Interesting letter. Not to mock you or anything, but it reminds me a lot of Keith Olbermann.
I am a RSA for TMO, and one of the major selling points was that Android was (is?) Open Source. That was a big deal to many customers.
I don't think the folks over a Google realize how tech savvy even the dumbest tech user is.
Had probably a 60 year old man come in the other day and he had put Hero on his G1 by himself.
(No offense to any oldsters.)
The world is changing, and Google just jumped in front of that subway train you mentioned.
this was truly a great letter. i would love to see the response (if you even get one) to this. i feel inspired to go do something now...
Android users, this is your call to arms.
Before you go and write long winded threatening letters to someone, maybe you should look into what you are writing about first. The person you are writing the letter to is an employee of a company that tells him what to do. I doubt after all of the help he has given developers and "hackers" in the Android irc channel, that he was just planning on striking everything down. My guess, and that of many others who know of him (havent chatted a lot, but he is social with us) would be that he was told to write that post. I dont want cyanogen roms to go away either, but I think you are going at it the wrong way. Hate the company, not the developers.
And after re-reading the post, you mention installing this on devices that already have it. The exact same arguement I used but you must also realize that an HTC hero does not get these Google Apps. It is an HTC branded phone and instead gets HTC branded apps. The "With Google" phones are the only ones that come with these apps pre-installed. Even then, apparently (I just found this out today) that your license to these apps does not allow you to copy them OFF of the device they came on. So that cut down another idea we had: copy the apps from the rom to SD, flash image, copy apps back.
Once again, I do not disagree with you or your anger, I just disagree with who you are directing it at.
irrelevant. "i was just doing what i was told" is never an excuse. it doesnt work in the justice system, and it doesnt work here. i could elaborate more, but i really dont want to invoke Godwin's Law this early in the conversation. he opened his mouth. he made himself the target. everyone is a nice and helpful person until they show their true colors.
perhaps its just me, but i'm one of those people that actually hold to my ideals. if i'm fighting for something and my boss tells me to do otherwise, i'm going to tell him to pack sand. if I get fired, i can always find a new job, but I can do so with my integrity intact. he had a choice. everyone always has a choice.
also, to your second post, the HTC branded phones arent the subject of controversy. the apps are "free". i quote free because it isnt true in this case. how is distributing the official Gmail app for free any different than accessing the same capabilities through another means? if I were to delete the official GMail app off of my phone entirely and instead access my gmail account through a browser, wouldnt that have the same effect on Google's "bottom line"? I'm still using the same service and not paying for it. Similarly, with the hero, if you have access to GMail through any email application or browser, are you not violating the same concept? You're still using the core of google's intellectual property for free. Their only real solution is to make the Google apps paid applications that everyone has access to if they want to shell out the cash, or simply drop the whole thing.
Are they going to stop people from creating custom GMail apps too? Cause if so, they've got a big fish to fry, cause they'd have to go after everyone who wrote a gmail plugin for firefox as well. any way you look at it, they're not going to stop the development community from going on, its simply too big.
If Dell gives you a "free" copy of vista on your laptop, and then you buy a compaq with linux installed on it. Does that mean you have the right to install your "free" vista on the compaq also? It was free! How about you write a new windows shell and you bundle your free windows vista with it. And you also throw in your free copy of Office that came with it.
I understand their point and I realize these examples are not EXACT enough to matter, but the point does. They give you the apps for A SPECIFIC device and they give them to you with rules. Rules that we do not like.
I feel that they instead of C&D'ing him, should have had a little sit down with him. Said "hey, we realize you are doing a lot of good for us by promoting our product and giving those who want more what they ask for when we cannot, but we have some rules for you. A, you must make every attempt you can to make sure the roms you distribute go on authorized "With Google" devices. B, not release stuff you do not have permission to release." This would allow google to control what he releases enough to fit within the rules (keeps carriers from saying "hey, he can release your apps without paying, why cant we?"). They would also benefit from the many thousands of users who flock to these custom roms but realize they are unusable in their bare forms.
And so you do not have to, I will be the first to pull the term nazi out of my hat in this one
I agree completely. As i said in the letter, they could have nurtured creativity (i.e. having a sit down with him and saying "hey look, we know that this is going to non-google devices and we cant have that, so make an attempt to not let it happen") or poke it with a stick. They chose the stick, and now they get to reap the backlash.
I also understand your initial examples, and while they do hold true for the circumstance, windows isnt lauded as being an open-source platform. In addition, i havent heard of microsoft going after people who create custom shells that utilize windows information, so long as they put a disclaimer on it saying that you're only allowed to use them if you're running an authorized copy of the OS. The same should have been done here, as you suggested.
Also, microsoft has specific anti-piracy safeguards in place to keep you from installing that software on your compaq that didnt come with it. Can you get around it? sure. Piracy happens, but its also illegal. But google has no such safeguards on the apps. Is it because they lacked the foresight to see this coming? Absolutely. If they didnt want the apps installed on non-branded/non-approved devices, then perhaps they should have made it impossible to do so. Sure, people would eventually find a way around it, but then they'd have a legitimate piracy gripe. As it is now, they dont. You dont hand a kid a cookie, let him eat half and then snatch it away because he shared the chocolate chips. You keep him away from the cookies from the get-go.
It really is a sad state of affiars. If something is going to be free, such as GMail, then Google shouldnt care how the users access it. How big of a chunk of their profits do you think its really going to hurt if people with the hero get a free copy of the gmail app? I bet their legal team made for handling this "issue" than it would cost them in ten years. If the apps in question were paid apps, then I would completely understand. People shouldnt get something free that they should have to pay for, which is one of the reasons that XDA has such a strict "warez" policy. But thats not the case.
The simplest solution would have been to realize that "oops, we did tell them it was open source, maybe we should clarify a bit and see if we can come to a reasonable understanding". But alas...
Also, to your point that the apps came with a specific device, what about those that purchased a device with those apps? We have a right to be using them as we see fit. When I bought my phone, I never signed anything that said that I couldnt theme the application if I wanted to. Google never made me sign a contract. And they couldnt, it would be ridiculous. What about people that purchased them on ebay or craigslist without a contract? They still bought the device and are the owner, and they certainly didnt have to agree not to modify any content. Is google going to go after every developer and every themer now too? Are they going to go after every end user who modified their content? It's just as illegal as making a rom that allows it to happen in the eyes of the law. Apple is attempting to do the same sort of crap with people jailbreaking the iphone. They're saying that even though you bought it, apple technically still owns it, so anything you do to it is illegal. Theres a huge legal debate going on over it right now and apple looks like theyre probably going to lose.
The safeguard they have in place is lack of root access. If you have root access yo have exploited a bug and are acting out of the designed use of the phone. You would not be able to backup or otherwise access these app files. Also, you would not be able to flash the new rom without root, which you gained by exploiting a bug.
Absolutely. But at the same time, the whole "exploiting a bug" argument is similarly null. If the bug never existed, two things would be true:
1. There would be no custom roms for end users, which Mr. Morrill says he supports and looks forward to seeing more of. This would be true since the idea of creating custom software would be idiotic as nobody would be able to install it. The only people utilizing the open-source framework would be major development houses, such as what creative is doing with the plazma stem-cell android that they're putting on the EGG. Application development has nothing to do with open source. The iPhone is not open source, but you can still develop apps for it.
2. The claim that they have about the free distribution of their intellectual property would hold merit, as it would be legitimate software piracy, instead of an unintended side effect of faulty design.
The first point is what makes this a farce. We, as developers, found a way to get custom software onto our devices, something which we were never intended to do. One of two things should have happened at that point: they should have let us continue to do it, which they did (closing the loophole could have been done, they could have found a way to prevent downgrading, seeing as there are no other OS options for the device) or they could have stopped it there and said that exploiting the bug is illegal. Its been a year since the device came out. This has been going on for a YEAR. You mean to tell me that this is an issue NOW and wasnt a year ago when it first started? Its only an issue because they're not the only game in town anymore. Ridiculous. Someone got their feathers ruffled and wanted to take out the little guy.
Ok, I am not going to keep replying to your endless wandering rebuttals. I feel you are wrong in who you are aiming your hate mail at and that is the end of the story.
Thats fine, and I do apologize for being excessively adamant about it. But I still feel I'm right. You only paint a target on yourself if you're prepared for people to shoot at you. Thats all I can say about it.
Darkrift said:
If Dell gives you a "free" copy of vista on your laptop, and then you buy a compaq with linux installed on it. Does that mean you have the right to install your "free" vista on the compaq also? It was free! How about you write a new windows shell and you bundle your free windows vista with it. And you also throw in your free copy of Office that came with it.
I understand their point and I realize these examples are not EXACT enough to matter, but the point does. They give you the apps for A SPECIFIC device and they give them to you with rules. Rules that we do not like.
I feel that they instead of C&D'ing him, should have had a little sit down with him. Said "hey, we realize you are doing a lot of good for us by promoting our product and giving those who want more what they ask for when we cannot, but we have some rules for you. A, you must make every attempt you can to make sure the roms you distribute go on authorized "With Google" devices. B, not release stuff you do not have permission to release." This would allow google to control what he releases enough to fit within the rules (keeps carriers from saying "hey, he can release your apps without paying, why cant we?"). They would also benefit from the many thousands of users who flock to these custom roms but realize they are unusable in their bare forms.
And so you do not have to, I will be the first to pull the term nazi out of my hat in this one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About your dell giving you a "free" copy of vista. As long as that CD key is only used on one computer, you can use that CD key on ANY computer. Read their TOS. Your are wrong about a lot, but right about some. Changing the integrity of the windows shell is illegal, because that is microsoft property and NOT open source, but anytime you purchase an OS, or computer, you OWN that cd key of the software, all apps that come included as well. Could you try another example?
nice letter.
not so sure about the whole HTC (not "with google") phone thing- my magic is a HTC magic (32A) and it came will every single google app preinstalled on it.... not sure about hero though...
MontAlbert said:
nice letter.
not so sure about the whole HTC (not "with google") phone thing- my magic is a HTC magic (32A) and it came will every single google app preinstalled on it.... not sure about hero though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hero did too.
Regards,
Dave
.... for those who are unfamiliar, that is a reference to the fourth installment of the Star Trek Movies (with Shatner as James T. Kirk):
But is also an electronic euphemism for me throwing my hands in the air in disgust.
Every time a new device surfaces, and the subsequent forum is created.... it is almost immediately populated with "Screen Bleed!", "Creaky Back Panel", "Dead Pixel", "Dust under Display", "I got Howler Monkey and NOT Gorilla Glass" threads (ok, I made up the last one, but you get the point...). These threads almost immediately degrade into a bashing of Asus, Samsung, HTC etc and their inherent failures of maintaining reasonable quality control and piss poor manufacturing tolerances. Rarely, though sometimes, does anything constructive come out of these threads. It just serves as vehicle for some users to vent their concerns... and other users to troll and incite anger. I know I can choose not to read these threads... however, on that rare occasion when there is a nugget of wisdom buried in the sea of bull#%@!, I am interested in learning.
I think we have to come and realize, that due to the scale on which these devices are produced... that there will be flaws coming off the line. Period.
I also think, as educated consumers, that everyone has the right to get the device that they paid for (within reasonable perception). Thus I never fault anyone for RMAing four, five or six times... it is there money and they can exercise whatever diligence is necessary to achieve whatever they feel their purchasing dollar deserves.
However, the endless bashing of manufacturers... "I will never by Asus or Samsung or <insert offending OEM>" are both tiresome and unrealistic. For instance, Samsung supplies many OEMs with both display and memory technology... even trying to avoid giving them your dollars is relatively difficult.
I guess what I am saying is that I empathize and recognize that users will find fault in new devices... and after forking over hard earned cashed will be indignant if it fails to meet their expectations. I just think there has to be a more constructive manner of voicing, organizing, researching and in some instances effecting change or exacting compensation for these "failures".
This is where I make a suggestion to the MODs:
The Q&A forums and Troubleshooting forums should be split. All new devices should have a dedicated Section (eg. Troubleshooting) for discussion of device flaws, production intolerances, technical failures and possible solutions. It would serve to clean-up the general section... and also allow for easier aggregating of "issues". This will allow for users to 1: see if something is a trend, or a few isolated instances; 2: serve to educate prospective buyers and 3: Allow information to be collected in a manner that is organized, coherent and possibly (I use this word loosely) useful in presenting OEMs with a list of informed users experiencing a defect on a wide scale.
I know, I suck...
[/rant]
Poser said:
.... for those who are unfamiliar, that is a reference to the fourth installment of the Star Trek Movies (with Shatner as James T. Kirk):
But is also an electronic euphemism for me throwing my hands in the air in disgust.
Every time a new device surfaces, and the subsequent forum is created.... it is almost immediately populated with "Screen Bleed!", "Creaky Back Panel", "Dead Pixel", "Dust under Display", "I got Howler Monkey and NOT Gorilla Glass" threads (ok, I made up the last one, but you get the point...). These threads almost immediately degrade into a bashing of Asus, Samsung, HTC etc and their inherent failures of maintaining reasonable quality control and piss poor manufacturing tolerances. Rarely, though sometimes, does anything constructive come out of these threads. It just serves as vehicle for some users to vent their concerns... and other users to troll and incite anger. I know I can choose not to read these threads... however, on that rare occasion when there is a nugget of wisdom buried in the sea of bull#%@!, I am interested in learning.
I think we have to come and realize, that due to the scale on which these devices are produced... that there will be flaws coming off the line. Period.
I also think, as educated consumers, that everyone has the right to get the device that they paid for (within reasonable perception). Thus I never fault anyone for RMAing four, five or six times... it is there money and they can exercise whatever diligence is necessary to achieve whatever they feel their purchasing dollar deserves.
However, the endless bashing of manufacturers... "I will never by Asus or Samsung or <insert offending OEM>" are both tiresome and unrealistic. For instance, Samsung supplies many OEMs with both display and memory technology... even trying to avoid giving them your dollars is relatively difficult.
I guess what I am saying is that I empathize and recognize that users will find fault in new devices... and after forking over hard earned cashed will be indignant if it fails to meet their expectations. I just think there has to be a more constructive manner of voicing, organizing, researching and in some instances effecting change or exacting compensation for these "failures".
This is where I make a suggestion to the MODs:
The Q&A forums and Troubleshooting forums should be split. All new devices should have a dedicated Section (eg. Troubleshooting) for discussion of device flaws, production intolerances, technical failures and possible solutions. It would serve to clean-up the general section... and also allow for easier aggregating of "issues". This will allow for users to 1: see if something is a trend, or a few isolated instances; 2: serve to educate prospective buyers and 3: Allow information to be collected in a manner that is organized, coherent and possibly (I use this word loosely) useful in presenting OEMs with a list of informed users experiencing a defect on a wide scale.
I know, I suck...
[/rant]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you.
I agree with this. I mean I'm impressed because they've managed to build so much devices compared to last year's fiasco (2-4 weeks waiting because of backorder). + you're paying 230$ for a tablet like this, don't except state-of-art QC from the manufacturer. That doesn't excuse their issues but at least I'm still impressed that it's not more than half the devices that have problems.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
My take is simply this (which the OP stated so well):
It's a new device that's been mass-produced; There will be issues.
That doesn't, however, mean it's a bad device that requires thread after thread after thread of angry ranting
Having a thread or two detailing common issues and, if needed, common procedures for repair / replacement is all that's needed.
Transparent Aluminum = aluminum oxynitride
it does exist, its what the military uses for transparent armor
Poser said:
.... for those who are unfamiliar, that is a reference to the fourth installment of the Star Trek Movies (with Shatner as James T. Kirk):
But is also an electronic euphemism for me throwing my hands in the air in disgust.
Every time a new device surfaces, and the subsequent forum is created.... it is almost immediately populated with "Screen Bleed!", "Creaky Back Panel", "Dead Pixel", "Dust under Display", "I got Howler Monkey and NOT Gorilla Glass" threads (ok, I made up the last one, but you get the point...). These threads almost immediately degrade into a bashing of Asus, Samsung, HTC etc and their inherent failures of maintaining reasonable quality control and piss poor manufacturing tolerances. Rarely, though sometimes, does anything constructive come out of these threads. It just serves as vehicle for some users to vent their concerns... and other users to troll and incite anger. I know I can choose not to read these threads... however, on that rare occasion when there is a nugget of wisdom buried in the sea of bull#%@!, I am interested in learning.
I think we have to come and realize, that due to the scale on which these devices are produced... that there will be flaws coming off the line. Period.
I also think, as educated consumers, that everyone has the right to get the device that they paid for (within reasonable perception). Thus I never fault anyone for RMAing four, five or six times... it is there money and they can exercise whatever diligence is necessary to achieve whatever they feel their purchasing dollar deserves.
However, the endless bashing of manufacturers... "I will never by Asus or Samsung or <insert offending OEM>" are both tiresome and unrealistic. For instance, Samsung supplies many OEMs with both display and memory technology... even trying to avoid giving them your dollars is relatively difficult.
I guess what I am saying is that I empathize and recognize that users will find fault in new devices... and after forking over hard earned cashed will be indignant if it fails to meet their expectations. I just think there has to be a more constructive manner of voicing, organizing, researching and in some instances effecting change or exacting compensation for these "failures".
This is where I make a suggestion to the MODs:
The Q&A forums and Troubleshooting forums should be split. All new devices should have a dedicated Section (eg. Troubleshooting) for discussion of device flaws, production intolerances, technical failures and possible solutions. It would serve to clean-up the general section... and also allow for easier aggregating of "issues". This will allow for users to 1: see if something is a trend, or a few isolated instances; 2: serve to educate prospective buyers and 3: Allow information to be collected in a manner that is organized, coherent and possibly (I use this word loosely) useful in presenting OEMs with a list of informed users experiencing a defect on a wide scale.
I know, I suck...
[/rant]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For once I totally agree with somebody 100%, I mean literally. Every time you go into google and pick a product and write "fail" "error" "failure" you will get complains, rants and what not, people need to learn that there is NO PERFECTION in mass-production products.
Want a perfect car? Pay it. Want a perfect phone? Buy an iPhone kidding
Hello,
I'm not sure if this is the best place for this post, but it's the smartest, and largest android based community I know
I wanted to know where would be the best place for me to look for a hardware engineer. The caveat would be I need to find someone willing to talk a bit first before actually being paid. I need the help of one so I can make a more sound mock-up of what I'm doing and planning prices before talking to the VCs I have contacts for. That said, I COULD always find a way to basically hire a hardware engineer for consulting but I would really want to find a hardware engineer somewhat as passionate as I am about quality and creativity forward thinking. I already have a few software teams in mind to ask but will only do so once I have the funding.
So my question to you at XDA, where would I go about doing this? I should also mention the engineer I would look for would need to know about mobile phones. The thing is, I CAN start prototyping and the funding process using generic insides from a chinese phone BUT the end goal for me is custom hardware with the utmost care and quality put into it. So I would basically be lying to VCs (which let's be honest, everyone does) but then I would be delayed in having a hardware engineer still, and I'd rather have as much time to get the ball rolling as possible. Hell even if the hardware engineer could give advice on the future and pricing but says going with chinese insides until the money comes in would work.
I just have no idea where to find one, craigslist, ask around from friends, post at a certain website? Luckily what I will be doing for the next year shouldn't take the engineer more than a couple hours a week if even. So for quite a few months it should be pretty low key for them if they wanted to keep doing whatever job they were doing until I could afford to hire them full time. In about 6 months I want to start the prototyping to have early look units available for reviewers by November/December of this year.
Thank you for taking the time to read and help! If anyone is curious without saying too much I am looking towards making a pure android ubuntu edge quality phone, but most likely higher quality. The end goal is to use the main funding to make a phone directly aimed at the wants of you guys at XDA, but that's at least a year or so away sadly, and first things first.
iytrix said:
Hello,I'm not sure if this is the best place for this post, but it's the smartest, and largest android based community I know I wanted to know where would be the best place for me to look for a hardware engineer. The caveat would be I need to find someone willing to talk a bit first before actually being paid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're in San Jose!! They grow on trees there! Just get some kid on the street and half their family will be HW engineers.
Anyway, this is the right place, but you are basically saying that they should "talk" to you, for free, for a while. So I doubt anyone would come forward. At least that's my experience in reading and seeing similar posts here in the last 2 years. Why would someone with the know how, risk spending months talking HW details, just to find him/herself abandoned?
You're project seem very noble and tasty, but we have to repackage it with some better incentives.
E:V:A said:
You're in San Jose!! They grow on trees there! Just get some kid on the street and half their family will be HW engineers..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahaha! So true! I remember when I first was looking to move out with a roommate almost EVERYONE was an "engineer" of some sort.
In hindsight I shouldn't have deleted the quote to respond. I think I remember all of what you said.
Yeah I understand that fully. This has just been an idea brewing in my head for about 3 or so years and my original plan was to befriend someone that was a hardware engineer and after building trust and enthusiasm start working on things. Me personally, I would do all of this for no profit on my part. Do I want it? Yes, but I only care about food, living, car payments, and getting this project rolling. I would like to work with people passionate enough about this to have a close mindset, but I realize that's not realistic, especially since it's my idea I'm asking people to believe in enough to work for it.
I think what I will probably have to do is, once I get enough stuff written up to present to an engineer to entice them on the project, also get some contract ready that promises them some share in things. The only thing is that could get very messy, and I would also need to add some more binding things so that they couldn't just leave on their own and take some profits, but I know I will need SOME way to entice people to want to work on this beyond just showing them the plan and idea.
I'm also trying to get in the more professional mindset. Making new company named emails and profiles so when I talk to people it's not just from a personal account. For XDA though I assumed people would take a senior member a lot more seriously than a brand new account though.
Are you from the Bay Area as well or do you just know of it? I find it weird that in this area people want to know investors and have their teams. I am in the opposite position where I have no team but have investors I am able to get a meeting with.
As a side note, a main reason why this turned from an idea to a thing that I HAD to do is I was getting fed up with all the phones that are coming out. There are many markets and categories missing from phones and I am hoping I can be the one to fill the gaps. I see tons of complaints online on various aspects of phones and so few companies seem to listen. Then once in a while a phone seems to be close to perfect and then the company doesn't ever come close again or removes wanted features. My only real fear is if the market moves too fast with some proprietary tech. But seeing as we've had bendable screens for...what 3 years now and the most we've gotten is slightly curved phones no one likes? I hope to change that, to get people more interested and caring for their phones.
Just figure out where they hang out online, and post...
You could post wherever idle HW engineers go to look for jobs too.
And there is no such thing as an "unemployed engineer".... They're (we're) consultants / contractors in between assignments, LOL.
mikereidis said:
Just figure out where they hang out online, and post...
You could post wherever idle HW engineers go to look for jobs too.
And there is no such thing as an "unemployed engineer".... They're (we're) consultants / contractors in between assignments, LOL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why I'm here to see if anyone knew where they went to hang out online haha. How would I go about that? Like a site or forums that's like a github for engineers instead of coders (although github is more pure code.....stack overflow I should say, but I think I make enough sense).
Haha! That seems very true. I'm sure I could find one to help me at least get the planning done but I would love to find one who wants to see this project through and through, and stay on for the full production of the phones, and the other ones I plan on making in the following years if this one succeeds.
Oh and, since from what you've said you SEEM to be a hardware engineer, how would I go about asking for the right kind? Could anyone with a degree or knowledge be able to easily adapt to making phones properly, or would I need to ask for one with a certain specialty? If so, what's the official term for the specialty?
Under the light of the recent developments - Amazon has banned Kodi from distribution on all of their plattforms, proclaiming it was "soliciting illegal use" without giving any insight into their though process, or even one argument - developer Koying is showing flag as well and is currently trying to withdraw his build of Kodi from the Amazon app store.
SPMC is the second most commonly used Media Center on Android, after Kodi - containing tweaks that make it more suitable to be used on some Android devices.
Read on from here:
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=201783&pid=2031210#pid2031210
@AFTVnews.com: I'm hoping you could pick up on this one as well.
edit: Background information:
http://www.aftvnews.com/amazon-apps...piracy-while-google-play-store-approves-kodi/
and
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/17/bezos_bozos_swing_ban_hammer_at_media_player/
This is off topic I believe, not because the mods are out to get you. Kodi and SPMC have never been compatible with the FireTV via the Amazon App Store. This belongs is a Kodi, SPMC or Amazon Fire Phone forum. Just saying if you are looking for a reason why your posts are getting deleted.
Using Amazon App Store Shortcuts to start Kodi and SPMC - which are the most popular sideloaded apps on the Fire TV, is the most common way of accessing your Media Centers on the Fire TV.
Also - the reason Amazon gave for pulling Kodi out of distribution has ramifications that by far exceed affecting only users who were dependent on the official distribution channel (Amazon Appstore). Amazon basically stated, that the most popular open source video player on Android devices should be considered illegal, without giving out any of the reasoning.
Also, every second thread in here is about Kodi and or SPMC - so there is a topical nature to this. Especially, as Amazons move very likely was triggered as a result of conflicting interests in the Fire TV segment of their product lines. Remember that Amazon has no problem still openly selling Kodi Boxes through their goods based marketplace.
In addition - the notion of developers trying to leave the Amazon ship as fast as possible, is a sentiment worth noting as well.
Ok fair enough. Your thread, I'll see my way out. You are looking at the bigger picture of what this could impact and the mods will allow it or not. Obviously a big deal for you if you specifically called it out to Koying like that. You going to ask the Plex devs next?
But again, this is a thread about removal of Kodi/SPMC from the app store. This is different than threads on Kodi usage via sideloading. The app store removal has no impact on FireTV users besides the shortcut not being available. And there are plenty of documented workarounds for this.
Plex plays ball with content holders requests to a point, where someone interested in publishing an addon with them, can even specify which plattform (that Plex supports) he doesnt wants his addon to work with - for example, because he wants people not to be able to access the content on a TV, or wants to drive them to his own 10 foot interface.
Plex also has vouched to vet all addons they provide, prior to releasing them. The content holders pay for that privilege.
Their answer to such a request would already be predetermined.
Still, this whole episode is an attempt to clamp down on user interests by Amazon and frame Kodi to be "something illegal" without offering their thought process, or reasoning.
This should be able to be discussed in this forum. I'd ask the moderators once more to reconsider censoring this discussion, because it has already caused considerable waves.
You can read Cory Doctorows position on the topic from 2010 here:
http://boingboing.net/2010/04/02/why-i-wont-buy-an-ipad-and-think-yo.html
This is what we are currently trying to fight against. While XDA moderators are closing down the topics.
Apple still provided its users with player software they could use to play their files on during the last transition, Amazon is now actively moving against the most commonly used video player software out there during this transition. If we dont care to actively speak out on behalf of Kodi, when a major 500 company is trying to sideline and extinct open source media center use on their platforms - it will shape this industry and our future concept of what we should be able to do with our devices.
Content vetting, by corporations - is nothing I would welcome as the new normal.
Thank you to everyone who brought this to my attention. http://www.aftvnews.com/spmc-requests-app-withdrawal-to-protest-kodis-removal-from-amazon-appstore/
And then - nothing, at least in here. Please dont be afraid to talk about Amazons unprecedented move to declare a Video Player "illegal".
I would really like to force this conversation.
To kindle some of the dialogue on topic - SPMC tries to get pulled to force the conversation here. To NOT allow people to flee to a convenient alternative, that is not tarnished by having become Amazons target, on grounds that arent publicly declared. Changing the app doesnt solve the issue.
So what is the next step - if we cant provoke Amazon to provide a public statement, while they decided to declare war on media players - we have lost. You have lost. You can then fast forward a few decades and tell your grandchildren the boring story, of how you've stood by and were too afraid to make your voice heard, when Amazon outlawed general purpose software on Android devices.
Media outlets right now are reporting on it, but they are taking the strange aura of - "it is outlawed" - with them, between the lines. No one is willing to not call it "a mistake", but an attack on consumer rights.
If this dialogue doesnt get started - and I am willing to take the time and argue on one side, Amazon will just sit this one out, and it will be allowed to become a precedent.
in german we have a word for someone declaring that a person or a concept has fallen out of the authorities favor. It is called vogelfrei and it translates to "as free as a bird" but in effect it describes that this person has been stripped of all of their rights and property - and that this had been made public to be made an example out of. This is what currently is happening to Kodi.
If you have an opinion, if you want to show some support, please voice it. It only takes a few voices to get a dialogue started.
its no surprise amazon hates it.. it alows users to get for free what amazon charges way too much for...
them keeing it off the app store is a good thing really.. it gives less attention to certain plugins as the muggles wont be able to get as easily. so certain plugins will have less heat on them.
psycon said:
its no surprise amazon hates it.. it alows users to get for free what amazon charges way too much for...
them keeing it off the app store is a good thing really.. it gives less attention to certain plugins as the muggles wont be able to get as easily. so certain plugins will have less heat on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But, what if you dont care about prolonging the life of certain plugins, by actively "pulling heat off of them".
What if you are a Kodi developer and you come to work tomorrow, launching your project files and have this strange feeling in your stomach - that you are now one of the bad guys, because you dont have submitted to corporate forces to include DRM in your software that will only allow certain extensions to work.
By what mode of thinking do you not pronounce this world crazy - because google does none of that on youtube, and only recently has pulled in extension distribution on Chrome in house, because of the profit motive (officially it is to "protect our users from rogue apps and viruses"). Because Calibre, the most commonly used tool to convert eBooks to Amazons azw format - even for submitting them to Amazon themselves, also has a plugin infrastructure and scraping built in. No one even cares to think to declare it "facilitating illegal use" because of it - in fact it is facilitating Amazon eBook creation for commercial use, if anything.
Amazon has closed down Fire TVs to a point, where there is only one viable distribution channel on it to get programs from for most people. Now they start to ban general purpose software on it, whenever it gets popular enough to compete with their own product offerings declaring it "facilitating illegal use" and not giving any explanation?
Heck, all Amazon products could be declared to be illegal tomorrow, when we are following the explaination that is taking form here - if Amazon would be forced to release a statement as to why they consider general purpose software illegal, we could then take this definition and apply it to them to see if they are adhering to the same standards, when it fits their business interests. This is what this whole episode is about.
You cant declare something "facilitating illegal use" and not give out any reasoning. You cant start banning media players from your distribution channels, and believe, that the world tomorrow will go on the same way it has before.
Just remove all CD burning software, all flashdrives, all MP3 Players, all eReaders, even the Fire TV itself - from your storefront, while you are at it, because you just engaged in a serious example of fostering double standards - when you think, that you can get away with it, without too much publicity.
What about, the prospect, that as a Kodi developer you care about the "muggles" - and you dont care so much about the dumb pirates who will always shout out "it costs too much", regardless what you throw at them? But you also care about open access - and dont believe that every content that can be played back by your software should have to be vetted by you first.
What if you dont believe in putting in DRM hooks into your software project, so it can be considered "marketable" in the minds of whoever currently is promoting his digital agenda?
Amazon is no more legal than Kodi. In none of what they are doing, selling, promoting or declaring. They just are better at promoting double standards. And when they speak out a ban, most journalists headlines follow their messaging - not even stopping for one second to question what is happening here.
What if you are a Kodi developer that was encouraged to do this work through being sought out as a participant in Googles "Summer of Code" programs year, after year, after year - and all of a sudden your work is being dragged through the gutter - once your featureset has been copied and no one sees any use for your position not to be willing to pronounce what is considered "officially too naughty for an Apple Appstore". Which by the way - also contains political satire, because the mid west likes his ways.
If you are under 30, why all of a sudden are you thinking like your dad?
Sorry this was a dud for you, but nobody cares. You aren't starting a revolution. SPMC is the #3175 ranked app on Amazon. It hasn't even been updated since 13.4, so I doubt the developer cares that much. And again, it doesn't change a thing. We'll just sideload it like we always have. Until Amazon actually blocks this from running, save your breath. All you have done here is helped Amazon get content they don't like removed. Really, prod the TVMC dev next. Amazon will love you. That is much higher ranked and actually includes piracy.
Amazon does have the right to remove and app without reason, just as Koying, Kodi or anyone else has a right to remove their app at their request. It is given in the same terms, sections 6, of the developer agreement. If you don't like it, don't use their store and sign the terms and conditions. They don't owe you or anyone else an explanation.
App Availability; Withdrawal. We may determine in our discretion to make any App available through our Program.
And having you spout your craziness all over each place this is posted makes it look like #freekodi being pioneered by a crazy person. Some people follow the crazies, but not the masses. You, personally, are pushing them away. So you should stay quiet if you want to see this succeed with whatever you are trying to do. Just some advice.
Also, you have insulted AFTVNEWs and XDA directly on this forum. You lambaste anyone for going to "clickbait blogs" to get fed an opinion. Yet you turn right to them when it fits your agenda. You sir are a hypocrite. No one is listening to you.
jpeg42 said:
Sorry this was a dud for you, but nobody cares. You aren't starting a revolution. SPMC is the #3175 ranked app on Amazon. It hasn't even been updated since 13.4, so I doubt the developer cares that much. And again, it doesn't change a thing. We'll just sideload it like we always have. Until Amazon actually blocks this from running, save your breath. All you have done here is helped Amazon get content they don't like removed. Really, prod the TVMC dev next. Amazon will love you. That is much higher ranked and actually includes piracy.
Amazon does have the right to remove and app without reason, just as Koying, Kodi or anyone else has a right to remove their app at their request. It is given in the same terms, sections 6, of the developer agreement. If you don't like it, don't use their store and sign the terms and conditions. They don't owe you or anyone else an explanation.
App Availability; Withdrawal. We may determine in our discretion to make any App available through our Program.
And having you spout your craziness all over each place this is posted makes it look like #freekodi being pioneered by a crazy person. Some people follow the crazies, but not the masses. You, personally, are pushing them away. So you should stay quiet if you want to see this succeed with whatever you are trying to do. Just some advice.
Also, you have insulted AFTVNEWs and XDA directly on this forum. You lambaste anyone for going to "clickbait blogs" to get fed an opinion. Yet you turn right to them when it fits your agenda. You sir are a hypocrite. No one is listening to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems ike you are doing exactly what you tried to talk down to me for doing. When I opposed the idiot that started this thread you said I was wrong for doing it, now you are doing the same exact thing that I did. We are both right to call him out because he is wrong about everything and is super ruude to everyone.
To the OP, nothing you say is factual and nobody cares what you have to say. There are many other sites and ways to obtain Kodi so if Amazon does not want Kodi in their store it is totally fine. Kodi was removed a week before you even said anything about it and you would not have even known it was removed if you did not read it on AFTVNews.com. Kodi was removed on June 6th, and you didn't even know so its clear that if you cared you would have been checkin up on it. The same site (AFTVNEWS.com) you say you hate is where you get all of your info.
Its clear that the only reason you care about Kodi is the same reason Amazon decided to remove it. If Kodi did not give you an easy way to view illegal content you would not care at all. You are just paranoid that Amazon is gonna block you from using Kodi and take away your convenient way of finding and watching illegal streams. I do not hear you complaining about any of the other apps they removed. As a matter of fact you challenged anyone to name another app that Amazon has removed and when I named Modern Combat 5 you made an excuse about them removing it and said that MC5 was just a COD ripoff. You cannot complain about them removing Kodi and saying they are attacking us by doing so, if you are not gonna defend other apps too. Like I said, its clear why Kodi is the only app that matters to you, cause you do want to pay for TV and movies and you are scared that Amazon is gonna do something to block Kodi on your device. Let me help you stop compaining, Amazon is not gonna block Kodi or any other versions of Kodi, I promise, now get over it.
porkenhimer said:
Seems ike you are doing exactly what you tried to talk down to me for doing. When I opposed the idiot that started this thread you said I was wrong for doing it, now you are doing the same exact thing that I did. We are both right to call him out because he is wrong about everything and is super ruude to everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I apologize for that. I have seen the light. I am going to take the advice I gave to you back then. I am going to ignore this user. I am just as much responsible for his continued rants by responding to them.
jpeg42 said:
Yes, I apologize for that. I have seen the light. I am going to take the advice I gave to you back then. I am going to ignore this user. I am just as much responsible for his continued rants by responding to them.
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You never gave me that advice at all. You simply talked down to me for no reason. I am pretty sure it was simply because you took something I said wrong even after I apologized and told you what I actually meant you kept trying to insult me everytime i would post something. You're just as bad as the OP. When someone says something you do not agreee with you try to insult them. Its understandable tryin to talk down to the OP, cause he really is going way overboard with his nonsense, but you are rude to people even when they have done nothing wrong. Not only were you rude to me for no reason, you attacked me when I was not even talking to you on the Kingroot thread, then cheered the guy on that I was talking to. Its cool though, cause I realize now that you are just a know it all that just wants to be heard, so feel free to insult me anytime if it makes you feel better about yourself.
porkenhimer said:
You never gave me that advice at all. You simply talked down to me for no reason. I am pretty sure it was simply because you took something I said wrong even after I apologized and told you what I actually meant you kept trying to insult me everytime i would post something. You're just as bad as the OP. When someone says something you do not agreee with you try to insult them. Its understandable tryin to talk down to the OP, cause he really is going way overboard with his nonsense, but you are rude to people even when they have done nothing wrong. Not only were you rude to me for no reason, you attacked me when I was not even talking to you on the Kingroot thread, then cheered the guy on that I was talking to. Its cool though, cause I realize now that you are just a know it all that just wants to be heard, so feel free to insult me anytime if it makes you feel better about yourself.
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Whatever man. You ramble like crazy and I call you out for it. I'll never respond to you again too. Promise.
jpeg42 said:
Whatever man. You ramble like crazy and I call you out for it. I'll never respond to you again too. Promise.
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I hope not, cause all you are doing is trying to cause drama. Who tries to insult someone for doing something then does the same exact thing they tried insulting someone else for doing, then apologizes when they get called out on it? You, and that should tell you how rude you are to others. Lame as hell for you to be rude then turn right back around and do the axact same thing you told someone else not to do.
Once again, this topic is being closed.
You can "force" this discussion elsewhere. It's only bringing drama to XDA, and we don't like drama here. It disrupts the love! :highfive:
This is a site for developers and development. Every time this has been brought up, arguments ensue. And frankly, its irrelevant to the purpose of this site.
No more of these rant threads please, or they will follow this one to the Closed file.
Thank you,
Darth
Forum Moderator