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Wow, I didn't expect this. Phone arena done a test where users have to vote for which they think are the best photos taken with three smart phones and a digital camera. They were not told which photo is taken by which device. The results were really suprising as I thought my Samsung had the best camera among Android smart phones!
What do you guys think?
wwwdphonearenadcom/news/Smartphone-camera-comparison-you-choose-the-winner-Results_id20750[/url]
(remove the d's!) stupid url rule....
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Smartphone-camera-comparison-you-choose-the-winner-Results_id20750
full right link
Seriously??? I wasnt expecting them results either! Perhaps its just the screen on the S2 which makes the images look better than they actually are. Damn shame that!!!
Too bad there wasn't a Arc in the Game. It takes really great pictures, but the Galaxy doesnt do a bad job either. But if you take a picture with the iphone it uses HDR This is why the iphone images has more details on it.
I have no complaints about taking pictures with the phone, it's a phone not a camera. It is getting better (look 5 years back).
another great site for comparing pictures is gsmarena look at the following link http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=3&idPhone1=3621&idPhone2=3275&idPhone3=3619
Ex iphone4 user here, and these results just make me lol.....
Set the S2 to iso100 in daylight and it DESTROYS the iphone 4 camera.
Indoors and low light is probably not its strong point though, same as most phone sensors.
I haven't seen any pictures taken by the sensation but the sensation pics look like how my sgs2 takes pics (ie colors a little oversaturated)
I didn't spend too long looking but in the outdoor tests doesn't the S2 photos look most like the canon photos? The other two camera phones distort the image more compared to the samsung.
The flaw in this study has been pointed out in the comments on the website. They just asked for the best one and so as this was obviously the canon the results for the camera phones don't mean too much. They need to do another test just between camera phones.
I expected this anyway. The saturation, white balance, etc are not that satisfactory. My previous phone Nokia N80 produced much better images.
Well, for me this is the one of the weaknesses on SGS2. I hope Samsung will improve it on the next Samsung Galaxy S series. Other than that, this phone is really spectacular.
benjatt said:
I didn't spend too long looking but in the outdoor tests doesn't the S2 photos look most like the canon photos?
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Exactly ... in the outdoor tests the S2 even outperformed the Canon, because it shows more shadow detail.
This review only shows one thing ... not the best cam, but that the voters have been idiots, who don't know nothing about photography
What I find strange is, that my S2 shows a much better indoor white balance, as shown in these test shots. It seems Samsung fixed it in the latest updates?
looking at the pics, the canon is the best overall, and the SII comes very, very close (sometimes better outdoor, and slightly worse indoors).
the other 2 phones are far from their level of detail, balance and overall quality.
that's what I expected, too, and i checked the device names only after looking. the iphone level of detail is very disappointing.
one difference however is that the htc and the iphone both do heavy color correction (thats also a reason why they lose a lot of detail) while the SII and the canon do much lighter correction.
lastly if they're using HDR on the iphone and take front light pics it would be logical to use the free HDR apps on android and do offline HDR rendering on the canon, but that's not the case here
from that pic its easy to determine which phone is the iphone4 and thats probably why it has most of the vote there, since every iphone owner knew which one was the iphone ;-)
bilboa1 said:
looking at the pics, the canon is the best overall, and the SII comes very, very close (sometimes better outdoor, and slightly worse indoors).
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Click to collapse
But the Sensation is the only one where you can see the guys pores in the outside pictures, all the other ones his skin just looks even
I'm starting to doubt the credibility of the comparison. Allaboutsymbian done a comparison between the Arc and the Galaxy S2 and the S2 came out on top.
wwwdallaboutsymbian.com/features/item/13021_5_Top_Smartphone_Cameras_pitch.php
Now I look at the photos again, I think the results are chosen from what initially appears the best image (from untrained eyes) and what appears the best to a technical photographer. The Galaxy S2 are noisy, outdoors but do contain more detail. Whereas other phones have more noise reduction at the expense of details but at first look most people would choose the less noisy photo.
danman7200 said:
I'm starting to doubt the credibility of the comparison. Allaboutsymbian done a comparison between the Arc and the Galaxy S2 and the S2 came out on top.
wwwdallaboutsymbian.com/features/item/13021_5_Top_Smartphone_Cameras_pitch.php
Now I look at the photos again, I think the results are chosen from what initially appears the best image (from untrained eyes) and what appears the best to a technical photographer. The Galaxy S2 are noisy, outdoors but do contain more detail. Whereas other phones have more noise reduction at the expense of details but at first look most people would choose the less noisy photo.
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Click to collapse
I can see a lot more detail in the sensations pic, like I said I can see the guys pores in the pics taken with the sensation but the other sensation pics are better too
godutch said:
I can see a lot more detail in the sensations pic, like I said I can see the guys pores in the pics taken with the sensation but the other sensation pics are better too
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Click to collapse
But at the expense of the detail on the tree at the right of him.
HTC Sensation captures what seems to be a smudge of green, while in the GS2, you can make out the leaves. And his skin looks unnaturally red.
So the SGS2 decided to focus on the tree instead of the subject and instead of the subject looking slightly more tanned he looks like a shining ghost
The fun thing with this test:
If a voter would be good in recognizing quality pictures, they would most likely choose the real (Canon) camera 1st. The mobile camera that is the best, right after the Canon, would then have reasonably less chances of being picked as 'best', since the voters nót picking the Canon as best have proven to be bad quality-recognizers.
Thus the best camera-phone will have the highest chance of ending with the least of all votes
(as pointed out by several commenters already)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Interesting article....
I have both devices, I'll take a pic with each and post to see which one you all think is better. I would post an iPhone as well but my wife is out and about.
Here's unbiased review, including the camera.
http://www.mobile-review.com/review/samsung-galaxy-s2-en.shtml
I'm brand new here but felt that I had to comment as some here seem to be close to hari kiri (sic) over some reviews.
I do feel that the screen will be a little low on colour saturation but it's by no means terrible - and the adjustment options included in the final software should fix this. But what I really want to talk about is the camera.
Phonearena have been especially vocal about how the camera doesn't match up to the competition but I'm absolutely amazed that they've missed a glaring error in their analysis! Because of the boost in mp's and the different focal lengths of each phone, when they're doing a 100% crop comparison, they're clearly zooming in much, much further on the XZ. I don't think it's intentional but if you look at the crops they give, the difference is clear. The XZ i
Now I'm not saying that Sony haven't been a little heavy handed in their compression - they have. BUT if you zoom in comparison shots to the SAME CROP the difference is far less pronounced than some would have you believe. Indeed, if you zoomed in the other shots to the same depth as the XZ zoom they would become a mess of pixels - better defined pixels, sure, but no more usable for it.
Is the camera on the XZ blowing me away? I dunno, I'll put it to the test when I get it. But don't write it off based on comparissons with other phones unless you do the tests yourselves because phonearena have done a half-assed job, frankly.
Your thoughts below, please.
Great observation. I do see the compression as a necessary, temporary downside to putting a 13mp camera on a smartphone. They're probably working on keeping the responsiveness up first; hopefully the compression will get better through software updates.
That Phonearena review was biased.... i tell u why....:
1. They ranked devices on every domain and listed lumia 920 and XZ with least ranking however ... where these two stood out to be better than others ... they skipped raking quite cleverly.
2. They even ranked Lumia 920 and XZ in night mode as bad shooters LOL at them... everybody knows the truth.
3. They even placed 1-2 cheeky discouraging lines in low light mode review about XZ.
4. In Detail they ranked XZ last. that was a big fail even their own pics that were taken... small boards really far away were much readable on XZ than others.
5. They always used superior auto mode in XZ but used manual settings in others..... obviously XZ will be confused in special conditions like a well lit building at night and surrounding trees which are not much in light... use manual settings there and i m sure XZ will tear others apart.
nikhiltanwar said:
That Phonearena review was biased.... i tell u why....:
1. They ranked devices on every domain and listed lumia 920 and XZ with least ranking however ... where these two stood out to be better than others ... they skipped raking quite cleverly.
2. They even ranked Lumia 920 and XZ in night mode as bad shooters LOL at them... everybody knows the truth.
3. They even placed 1-2 cheeky discouraging lines in low light mode review about XZ.
4. In Detail they ranked XZ last. that was a big fail even their own pics that were taken... small boards really far away were much readable on XZ than others.
5. They always used superior auto mode in XZ but used manual settings in others..... obviously XZ will be confused in special conditions like a well lit building at night and surrounding trees which are not much in light... use manual settings there and i m sure XZ will tear others apart.
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I'm not sure but I think they would get better results with superior auto. I think PA did not use superior auto.
I think we shoul wait for more precise reviews like the GSMarena one which is by far, one of the best out there.
But I won't be surprise if the XZ's camera won't match nowadays' best 8 MP standards, Sony has been trailing behind for quite some time now in the Photo department.
yeah that comparison doesn't make any sense both Samsungs where over exposed for most of the photos, big difference in iso use etc etc. clearly done by someone who doesn't know anything about photography
I don't take PA reviews very seriously - specially when it comes to cameras. Somehow they find samsung cameras pretty good which is very questionable - I think. I've owned all three samsung galaxy phones. GS1 camera was horrible, GS2 was average and GS3 is also average. HOX has a better camera, Xperia T is better than both.Xperia Z should be even better. And I don't take pictures with lousy auto mode.
PA reviews are usually good except for the camera part - they simply don't understand photography. If you read their comparison, you can just tell that it was written by a noob.
What i don't understand is the photos posted by someone here on Google+ definitely looks good.
check these out:
plus.google.com/
photos/110267829736715997848/
albums/5843542135386591041/5843542150197706866?banner=pwa
At first, I thought the photos above are not from XZ. They are really clear, sharp, and vibrant. I don't see noise in them.
They are miles better than what PA and other sites are posting. How could this happen? Different software or versions?
Humandroidz said:
What i don't understand is the photos posted by someone here on Google+ definitely looks good.
check these out:
plus.google.com/
photos/110267829736715997848/
albums/5843542135386591041/5843542150197706866?banner=pwa
At first, I thought the photos above are not from XZ. They are really clear, sharp, and vibrant. I don't see noise in them.
They are miles better than what PA and other sites are posting. How could this happen? Different software or versions?
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I have analysed these images... On a bigger screen ..with zoomed in depth... They look good surely... That is why PA have lost it....
---------- Post added at 10:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------
Humandroidz said:
I'm not sure but I think they would get better results with superior auto. I think PA did not use superior auto.
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They used superior auto... In some domains they even wrote it... Never used HDR .... I think superior auto was in most situations... So.many times this superior auto mode gets things wrong... It should be used when u r super noob in photography.... Not in a picture comparison
seen that review and i can say it is a total bias.
rufaz said:
seen that review and i can say it is a total bias.
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That's a common opinion about Phonearena's reviews. Many reviews were considered biased, with results that nobody is able to replicate etc. I wouldn't pay much attention to it - no matter if it's positive or negative.
schecter7 said:
I don't take PA reviews very seriously - specially when it comes to cameras. Somehow they find samsung cameras pretty good which is very questionable - I think. I've owned all three samsung galaxy phones. GS1 camera was horrible, GS2 was average and GS3 is also average. HOX has a better camera, Xperia T is better than both.Xperia Z should be even better. And I don't take pictures with lousy auto mode.
PA reviews are usually good except for the camera part - they simply don't understand photography. If you read their comparison, you can just tell that it was written by a noob.
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I thought I was the only one who shared this view seeing as last year I had the Xperia S & T, S3 & N2 and HOX and for starters I believe Iphone arena claimed the camera on the HOX and Xperia T were mediocre compared with S3 (N2 has same camera as S3 anyway). That was total B.S The camera on the T and HOX and even Xperia S were far better than the samsung cameras both outdoors and indoors and at night, especially indoors with lighting where the S3/N2 cameras became washed out and I tested the camera's vs eachother same angles etc and the samsung cameras were the worst.
I have also compared the camera on the lumia 920 vs s3/N2 in shops and the lumia 920 looks better.
Even looking at the images IPA have done with the Z the images look great.
Its hard to believe all those reviews... Who even knows whether they are giving us true/genuine pictures- its upto the eidtor/reviewer to give us genuine review. Not even their webmaster will know it whether they are genuine.. There were plenty of crtitcism from reader about engagdet's news articles of apple products once... Some times its very clear in the writing the bias towards non-apple news. Who knows they have been receiving goodies and bucks... I was in straight fire @ one ZNet writer after reading his apple article- he wrote like not even a hardcore apple fan wont writer against android phones- blindly.... They all in US... we donno the truth...
I donno much about phonearena... Also i'm not going to expect much from a tiny smartphone sensor whether its 13mp or 44mp... You have to understand the camera sensors first... As the sensor becomes small in size the light goes thru it also less , hence the picture qaulity... Still the best quality sensor gives best results... In smartphone case the photographer has to be very careful and still as much as the object to get nice photos... Image stabilization is there , but its nowhere near of DSLR or other proper cameras.... So each time you take a picture its different although same object , same angle or whatever you can imagine there.... Competition in smartphone arena is to make thinnest phone... as the phone goes thinner camera sensor goes smaller(thinner) too.. otherwise you will see a bump where camera sits (like in pureview).....
gd
Actually,the important factor of I am attracted by the HTC One is its UltraPixel, I have read the technology description on HTC's website, and I just wonder if it really performs better than the typical smartphone with just 4MP camera.
There's threads about this
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Dannyada1988 said:
Actually,the important factor of I am attracted by the HTC One is its UltraPixel, I have read the technology description on HTC's website, and I just wonder if it really performs better than the typical smartphone with just 4MP camera.
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Click to collapse
In my eyes, it doesn't. It does well and certain lighting conditions i do have to say but for most of the shots ive seen like the iphone vs. HTC One camera, the iPhone did better in nearly all of them to me. Once people get the non-demo models though we'll be able to see what others think.
#cameraname
Dannyada1988 said:
Actually,the important factor of I am attracted by the HTC One is its UltraPixel, I have read the technology description on HTC's website, and I just wonder if it really performs better than the typical smartphone with just 4MP camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To get some idea of how well the camera on any phone performs in different lighting hastag its name on Instagram
I personally am jealous of the camera on the iphone 4s/5. They seem to produce the sharpest pictures on Instagram and Facebook!
We can't tell yet the device software is not final and HTC didn't lift the reviews embargo yet and the didn't post many official samples either
Normally, I would like to see dpreview's comments for any camera reviews. gsmarena's camera section is also decent.
I think the argument is unless you're wanting to print photos on huge canvases etc then 4mp is more then enough for Facebook etc that most people use their camera phones for. And if you can develop a 4mp camera that is high quality with low light performance you're basically giving the majority what they want and need.
As a photo enthusiast I am glad to see them trying to get closer to what's necessary and needed rather then having a medium quality high pixel camera that I'll never use for top notch shots. I have a DSLR for that.
Sent from my Desire HD using xda app-developers app
Yup trading pixel detail for low light
From a lot of comparisons I saw, there's no doubt that the best available mobile camera is Nokia 920 but hey, it's a windows phone.
Recently Sony released a Firefox OS ROM for some xperia phones. If Nokia decided to do the same releasing an oficial android ROM for Lumia series I could think about buying one but, that's not the case.
And about HTC One camera, maybe it's not the best but it's great enough for me.
Tapatalked from my GNex
joelteixeira said:
From a lot of comparisons I saw, there's no doubt that the best available mobile camera is Nokia 920 but hey, it's a windows phone.
Recently Sony released a Firefox OS ROM for some xperia phones. If Nokia decided to do the same releasing an oficial android ROM for Lumia series I could think about buying one but, that's not the case.
And about HTC One camera, maybe it's not the best but it's great enough for me.
Tapatalked from my GNex
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I never got why Nokia jumped on the Windows Bandwagon... i guess maybe because Android has SO much competition?
WP OS is pretty naff though, the person that thought of having text going off the screen so you scroll over... looks daft
joelteixeira said:
From a lot of comparisons I saw, there's no doubt that the best available mobile camera is Nokia 920 but hey, it's a windows phone.
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Click to collapse
Although I was blown away by the 920, that was my exact point of not buying the device. At the moment there is no camera that can make me buy a Windows Phone
its not the best, but is good to me, only 13 days for release!
kalo88 said:
I never got why Nokia jumped on the Windows Bandwagon... i guess maybe because Android has SO much competition?
WP OS is pretty naff though, the person that thought of having text going off the screen so you scroll over... looks daft
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Click to collapse
When Maemo was in the transition of replacing symbian as nokia's primary OS they suddenly appointed a new CEO which came from Microsoft. And few months after they decided to ditch support for maemo & meego and decided to partner with windows. So most likely the reason why they went windows and not android is because microsoft infiltrated their administratiion. It all started with Stephen Elop.
How about Apple releasing iOS version for Lumia 820 and 920? Hahahha Nokia and android too much optimistic thought but let Nokia fall down again I think Nokia is under Microsoft's debt and ms is hypnotised Nokia to save their reputation in mobile world, Nokia will show their true color when his debt from Microsoft has finish atm Nokia don't want to angry Microsoft coz ms has been heavily feeded Nokia to make him healthy
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
kalo88 said:
WP OS is pretty naff though, the person that thought of having text going off the screen so you scroll over... looks daft
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's a perfectly good OS, my sister has it. Very fast and fluid for what its a cheap phone.
I think they went with WP as they will be the manufacturer associated with it. Think iOS, think Apple (obviously) but for Android most people will automatically think Samsung.
I'd like to reiterate again, that demo units and preview units with unfinalized software have NEVER made a difference (for any phone) in the final quality of the camera. It'll be released in a few weeks. If it's **** now, it will still be **** later on. No more excuses. Optimism is no excuse for stupidity.
Here's one big problem with the HTC One. The 4MP is 4MP. You can go on and on about how it doesn't matter for facebook, but if we are going to place smartphone cameras to a higher standard (HTC says so), this compromise is almost dealbreaking. It's one step forward, two steps back. I take pictures of menus and sheets of paper and murals and such with text quite frequently. Even my Galaxy S2 with 8MP is sharper and easier to read than the blurry and poorly defined text the HTC One takes. Here's a text comparison.
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_one-review-902p6.php
That's what you sacrifice with low resolution. Resolved detail. The text images are just the easiest way to see the problem with low resolution. It extends far beyond just text, Blurry faces, undefined outlines, and blur in general.
The other problem. The touted low light performance seems to be overblown. If you sacrifice megapixels for better low light, and the low light doesn't deliver, you just shot yourself in the foot. Here's a comparison in low light with the Nokia 920 and 720.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/HTC-One-vs-Nokia-Lumia-920-and-720-low-light-comparison-video_id40344
You can see the giant ass blotches of noise and grain, because the HTC image blows up the lighting and makes the noise and grain even more apparent. There's no fine detail, just a smear of color. Compared to the Lumia 920, it's almost like it has no OIS at all and the "ultrapixels" mean diddly squat. Most damning of all, is that the budget Lumia 720 takes better low light pictures. It doesn't have fancy OIS nor the same large pixels.
There are many more examples of the poor low light performance scattered about the net. This is the thing HTC touted as better than the rest, but so far its just middling if not mediocre.
In summation. If you want an average camera, or say "I don't give a shiz it's a camera-phone", this phone will fit the bill. But if you were expecting something more, some sort of major progress, you won't find it here. You will be better off with the Lumia 920 and its OIS. Or wait for the Lumia 1000 EOS which will even give point and shoot cameras a run for their money. But right now this is just a half-hearted attempt by HTC, with plenty of money thrown at advertising it but no confidence in making it a reality wit a bigger sensor, more pixels, better OIS, etc. The Galaxy IV will probably have a better camera. Hell, the Galaxy II and III have better cameras.
Can we close these threads?
Until the device is released this is all speculation and all I'm reading is people whining and complaining about this device
Plain and simple, don't like it then gtfo and don't get the device
Sent from my One X using Tapatalk 2
superchilpil said:
Until the device is released this is all speculation and all I'm reading is people whining and complaining about this device
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Click to collapse
Funny you say that seeing as the post right above yours states the following:
katamari201 said:
I'd like to reiterate again, that demo units and preview units with unfinalized software have NEVER made a difference (for any phone) in the final quality of the camera. It'll be released in a few weeks. If it's **** now, it will still be **** later on. No more excuses. Optimism is no excuse for stupidity.
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Click to collapse
I looked through all the demo pictures and the ones taken by reviewers at MWC and the pictures where on par or better than the competition.
As for that GSM arena review, they describe the quality as being sharper and better overall than the LG G but then have photos that are blurry and say it is the One pictures but they don't match the full size pictures at the bottom of their review so I don't quite trust that source.
Honestly, if you want to take great pictures buy a point and shoot camera or a DSLR as nothing in a phone is going to out match them.
here are some samples from the One vs Nokia 920 and 720
I think HTC could have been a big contender to the galaxy S IV but will be dismissed by the average consumer because of the "poor" 4 ultrapixel camera, i dont get how a company struggling to sell would do such a thing , i love that they took a risk but maybe they should have waited until they had profits again, what do you think people is going to do when they go to buy a phone and see that the camera on the one is "just" 4 megapixels vs 13 megapixels on the galaxy S IV?
8 ultrapixels would have been great, also the daylight pictures are less than spectacular, the one x/xl takes better pictures at daylight ,lets see how turns out for HTC, i fear it wont be the best outcome :crying: , such a shame that "the best" will lose
So far seeing pictures taken against the iPhone 5, Galaxy S4, etc... I think they made the right choice. It takes some really nice pictures.
You are ignorant, HTC One along with Lumia taking the best photos in market at the moment. before coming up with a topic like that learn to check to results please.
But yeah, one thing is clear, people like you will think "hmm, 4 mp is bad i should get S4 because of that" and get S4. That is the only downside of the idea. Which I'm hoping wouldn't be a problem because noone is telling that it is 4 mp, they are marketting it as Ultrapixel Camera as a whole phrase, which is working relatively well.
You are right. While the tests seem to show, that the camera is really awesome and isn't worser than the 13 MP one the majority of people are still getting their phones direct from the store and deciding basically from the specs and the general appearance. I hope HTC will profit at least from their design and aluminium body this year.
Only ignorant consumers purchase items based on just numbers...
Education is key.
Many reviews show that its the second best on the market, after 808 and just beating the N95. Lesser pixels are also needed to process in the Zoe mode. So my conclusion will be it isn't a "poor" or "unnecessary" change. In fact, it's proving to be one of the best cameras (obviously if you don't print your photographs in full size)
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
Dharkan said:
You are ignorant, HTC One along with Lumia taking the best photos in market at the moment. before coming up with a topic like that learn to check to results please.
But yeah, one thing is clear, people like you will think "hmm, 4 mp is bad i should get S4 because of that" and get S4. That is the only downside of the idea. Which I'm hoping wouldn't be a problem because noone is telling that it is 4 mp, they are marketting it as Ultrapixel Camera as a whole phrase, which is working relatively well.
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Click to collapse
That true no one has told me its a 4mp camera in shops, they say 4 ultra pixel.
Also when I played with the phone and compared pics to the xz and and s3 etc it blew them away which is one of the reasons there is a lovely silver HTC One sitting on my desk charging right now.
Also regarding charging, battery life for me so far is great: seeing as I had to send stuff to the phone yesterday it got charged to 61% before I took if off the usb at aprrox 1.30pm yesterday and started using it: screen 30% bright, power saver on, all connections off unless I need them, playing some music, generally looking at the phone, a bit of internet browsing, mostly phone calls and texts and the battery was on 6% at about 10 am this morning and I went to bed at 2am.
Btw the this is the same pattern i do for all phones I have 30% brightness and power saver. I will be able to properly judge when its actually charged to 100% though and compare it to my others phones bar the note 2 where it will clearly lose.
Actually there is still noise in the images on the 4MP sensor, but less than a 13MP for sure in low light.
HTC made a deliberate decision that a phone camera is more utilized to pictures of family, friends when you go out somewhere like a restaurant, bar etc. In those circumstances good low light performance is essential and you don't need (in fact you don't want) to see the highest resolution possible on people's faces etc
You only really need 13MP when you are shooting landscape. In the case of Sony, they try and incorporate a camera that is more aimed towards tourist pictures. During the daylight, the resolution advantage will be clear to see on detailed scenes.
Personally, I do not use my phone as a replacement for a good camera. I use it exactly as HTC considered, incidental photos when out with friends and to keep memories of those occasions.
Having said that, it is not the best 4MP sensor...it should really have been even better (less noise). So while I think HTC did play a gamble here, and to some extent, there is a good amount of logic behind their decision...the implementation is still not as good as I would have hoped. It is just possible that software updates will improve its performance further.
R89SONY said:
which is one of the reasons there is a lovely silver HTC One sitting on my desk charging right now.
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Click to collapse
Amen!
jonstatt said:
Actually there is still noise in the images on the 4MP sensor, but less than a 13MP for sure in low light.
HTC made a deliberate decision that a phone camera is more utilized to pictures of family, friends when you go out somewhere like a restaurant, bar etc. In those circumstances good low light performance is essential and you don't need (in fact you don't want) to see the highest resolution possible on people's faces etc
You only really need 13MP when you are shooting landscape. In the case of Sony, they try and incorporate a camera that is more aimed towards tourist pictures. During the daylight, the resolution advantage will be clear to see on detailed scenes.
Personally, I do not use my phone as a replacement for a good camera. I use it exactly as HTC considered, incidental photos when out with friends and to keep memories of those occasions.
Having said that, it is not the best 4MP sensor...it should really have been even better (less noise). So while I think HTC did play a gamble here, and to some extent, there is a good amount of logic behind their decision...the implementation is still not as good as I would have hoped. It is just possible that software updates will improve its performance further.
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The noise problem was with prerelease software, if you see the photos now, there's way much less noise
From USA Gizmodo:
Another pleasant surprise: the camera's UltraPixels actually live up to the hype. In our testing the One performed as well as if not better than the top smartphone shooters out there (check out our comparison). It also took better low-light (read: in bars) photos than any phone I've used, and I was extremely impressed by how accurate the color rendering was. Now, if you're planning on printing your photos on 8x10s, maybe you'll miss the extra megapixels, but who really does that with their phone cam? For the web, you won't be able to tell the difference in resolution, and you will be able to tell the difference in low-light.
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Check out the photo thread
NiCk.JaY said:
The noise problem was with prerelease software, if you see the photos now, there's way much less noise
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
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I have one...I still see some noise. I am not saying it is bad. Just I guess I had such high expectations that it would take super clean images.
jonstatt said:
I have one...I still see some noise. I am not saying it is bad. Just I guess I had such high expectations that it would take super clean images.
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Have you updated it to the latest version? Because the pics from Gizmodo, Engadget, Verge are superb
SteelH said:
Only ignorant consumers purchase items based on just numbers...
Education is key.
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This. Also quality beats quantity!
Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2
NiCk.JaY said:
Have you updated it to the latest version? Because the pics from Gizmodo, Engadget, Verge are superb
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There is no update. I definitely have the most current release on the phone. I think it was just my expectations were too high. Don't get me wrong, it takes great pics.
I think that it will be very important for in-store signage of the HTC One show the comparison of the HTCs photo quality against "the others". They can't leave it to the uninformed general public or the uninformed sales staff to simply look at point form notes on the phone spec
AW: HTC risked itself unnecessarily with the 4 ultrapixels camera
And... Megapixels are nothing. It is all about the sensor and the lense. It is time to stop that Megapixel hype... Just look at the S4... 13mp on a damn small sensor, I guess you will not see a difference between my 1S and the S4...
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
4mp should of NEVER been banded about because in work people were going 'Omg the HTC ONE only has a 4mp camera.... who would want that' and then you have to explain it to them etc....
It was a risk but it should of just been left at 'Ultrapixel' and not compared to a megapixel count.
x3
I personally as a Photographer like their decission.
Remember the Foveon X3 Chip. If HTC manages to get something more out of that technique, they will get much better results.
At first saw no difference with the quality from the x. Now after a few dozen photos. There is a difference.close up shots capture loads of detail
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
First of all, I think that HTC from the quality point of view made the right decision. The camera appears better than sufficient - for the ordinary smartphone user that is. HTC's approach is different, I think: Remember "Friend Stream" in Sense? Now it is "Blinkfeed". My impression is that HTC bets on that users will shoot more photos if the photos can be uploaded to FB and other social networks quicker and thus in bigger numbers thanks to their smaller size. Photos go up easier to the Dropbox storage, too. The camera with 4 megapixels only is really more usable.
In the end the photo quality debate is a "luxury issue", the "ordinary" customer will not see a quality issue in the images. But the fact that he/she can really easily share their photos shot with the One - which they in real life can't with photos from their Samsung and other phones due to the sheer size of the images - this must be communicated to the customer. In addition, 32 GB built in storage on the One due to the difference in size of the camera's images in real life equal 50 GB storage on the Samsung.
To my opinion, therefore the success of the HTC One is not so dependent on the question whether 13 megapixels are better than 4 (or vice versa), but on the question whether they succeed in explaining the potential of smaller image files to the masses. My serious concern is, that even HTC and their marketing people are not aware really, what HTC's development department had in mind.
https://plus.google.com/photos/+DuanDao/albums/6070583356055960369
raazman said:
https://plus.google.com/photos/+DuanDao/albums/6070583356055960369
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They don't look very impressive to say the least... Pictures were taken in Irvine CA. I wonder who has access to a Nexus 6 this early down there?
How do we know these pictures were taken with a Nexus 6?
As far as the pictures go, they are very hit or miss. There are a few decent ones, but the majority of them don't look very good.
msal said:
How do we know these pictures were taken with a Nexus 6?
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I guess it could be faked but:
Camera shamu
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In photo details.
This is quite disappointing, Nexus cameras aren't known to be amazing but for $649 I'd surely expect more than this.
Click on the posters image. He had the nexus 5 test device.
The colors look oversaturated, which I guess is typical for cell phones (except a handful of the older flagship Nokia phone cameras).
Anyway, preproduction devices often do not have fully calibrated cameras, so I wouldn't put too much stock in how these images look. This person is also clearly not a professional photographer. I don't think any meaningful judgments can be made until reviews come out from some of the better sites for photography in phones.
msal said:
How do we know these pictures were taken with a Nexus 6?
As far as the pictures go, they are very hit or miss. There are a few decent ones, but the majority of them don't look very good.
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The good ones were sadly made w/ an iPhone.
Underwhelmed to say the least.
650+ Should buy a high end everything, especially camera. They could of at least out sourced the camera for that price.
ericerk said:
The good ones were sadly made w/ an iPhone.
Underwhelmed to say the least.
650+ Should buy a high end everything, especially camera. They could of at least out sourced the camera for that price.
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How can you tell it's from an iPhone?
msal said:
How can you tell it's from an iPhone?
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The Photo details button. It's on the right of the picture.
ericerk said:
The good ones were sadly made w/ an iPhone.
Underwhelmed to say the least.
650+ Should buy a high end everything, especially camera. They could of at least out sourced the camera for that price.
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I don't understand what you're talking about. Motorola doesn't make camera sensors. Neither does Google. Just about every phone manufacturer outsources the camera and there are only a handful of companies that actually make camera sensors for phones. The Nexus 6 has a Sony IMX214 Exmor RS sensor. The Sony sensors are in a lot of phones these days. The Sony sensors aren't bad. And it is absolutely absurd to make any conclusions about the Nexus 6 camera based on a couple random photos, from a bad photographer, on a pre-production device.
That aside, what do people expect anyway? The Nexus 6 has a 1/3 sensor like basically every other phone out there these days (including the iPhone) and that just makes for a mediocre camera. They are all more or less equally mediocre and there's no reason to expect anything different from the Nexus 6. It's not about megapixels, its about the actual physical size of the sensor. Phones have not changed from 1/3 sensors for a long time (because they can't do it and remain thin). Only the OIS is an interesting feature on the Nexus 6.
If you want a good camera, get a Nokia 1020 or Nokia 808 and just deal with the operating systems on those phones. They have huge sensors that are far superior to anything and everything else. Even five year old Nokia cameras, like in the N86, have much larger sensors than every phone out there. The only single exception is the Galaxy S5, which has a 1/2.5 sensor like the five year old N86, but the S5 is still nowhere remotely close to the 1020 or 808.
Those are your real choices. Everyone else has just thrown their hands in the air and excepted "good enough" cameras, because they'd rather make the phones super thin, than put good sensors in them. Superficial numbers and specs change, but phone cameras really are not progressing anymore. (Even Nokia has dropped the ball, now that Damian Dinning, the person behind the great cameras at Nokia like the 808, has left the company and the cell phone business.)
cb474 said:
I don't understand what you're talking about. Motorola doesn't make camera sensors. Neither does Google. Just about every phone manufacturer outsources the camera and there are only a handful of companies that actually make camera sensors for phones. The Nexus 6 has a Sony IMX214 Exmor RS sensor. The Sony sensors are in a lot of phones these days. The Sony sensors aren't bad. And it is absolutely absurd to make any conclusions about the Nexus 6 camera based on a couple random photos, from a bad photographer, on a pre-production device.
That aside, what do people expect anyway? The Nexus 6 has a 1/3 sensor like basically every other phone out there these days (including the iPhone) and that just makes for a mediocre camera. They are all more or less equally mediocre and there's no reason to expect anything different from the Nexus 6. It's not about megapixels, its about the actual physical size of the sensor. Phones have not changed from 1/3 sensors for a long time (because they can't do it and remain thin). Only the OIS is an interesting feature on the Nexus 6.
If you want a good camera, get a Nokia 1020 or Nokia 808 and just deal with the operating systems on those phones. They have huge sensors that are far superior to anything and everything else. Even five year old Nokia cameras, like in the N86, have much larger sensors than every phone out there. The only single exception is the Galaxy S5, which has a 1/2.5 sensor like the five year old N86, but the S5 is still nowhere remotely close to the 1020 or 808.
Those are your real choices. Everyone else has just thrown their hands in the air and excepted "good enough" cameras, because they'd rather make the phones super thin, than put good sensors in them. Superficial numbers and specs change, but phone cameras really are not progressing anymore. (Even Nokia has dropped the ball, now that Damian Dinning, the person behind the great cameras at Nokia like the 808, has left the company and the cell phone business.)
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What you're saying is fair, but It's not just random bias. I haven't seen a wonderful camera on a Moto phone since.... EVER.
I'm not getting it for the camera, I had the M8... I just want something that has a good camera. Something that doesn't shoot duds. I don't want a potato cam.
ericerk said:
What you're saying is fair, but It's not just random bias. I haven't seen a wonderful camera on a Moto phone since.... EVER.
I'm not getting it for the camera, I had the M8... I just want something that has a good camera. Something that doesn't shoot duds. I don't want a potato cam.
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I know a lot of people think the Moto cameras recently have been mediocre, but I really think, for the reasons I said, it's making a big deal out of relatively small differences. All of these phones have mediocre cameras with various limitations. The difference between good mediocre and medium mediocre is not that meaningful to me.
Like I said, if you want the best of the middle of the road cameras, get a Galaxy S5. If you want a truly great camera in a phone, get a Nokia 1020 or Nokia 808. Everything else is splitting hairs.
That said, I think the Nexus 6 (and Moto X) will be fine. As noted, it has a 1/3 Sony Exmor sensor, the likes of which can be found in perfectly respectable phones like the iPhone 4 and 5 and the Galaxy S4. It's not one of the newer generation Exmor RS sensors, but the advantages of those sensors has been overplayed. They're mostly still 1/3 sensors and so, whatever. A 1/3 sensor is never going to make for a great camera. But it is the status quo these days so it's not going to be subpar either (like for example the Nexus 4 that has a tiny 1/4 sensor).
cb474 said:
I know a lot of people think the Moto cameras recently have been mediocre, but I really think, for the reasons I said, it's making a big deal out of relatively small differences. All of these phones have mediocre cameras with various limitations. The difference between good mediocre and medium mediocre is not that meaningful to me.
Like I said, if you want the best of the middle of the road cameras, get a Galaxy S5. If you want a truly great camera in a phone, get a Nokia 1020 or Nokia 808. Everything else is splitting hairs.
That said, I think the Nexus 6 (and Moto X) will be fine. As noted, it has a 1/3 Sony Exmor sensor, the likes of which can be found in perfectly respectable phones like the iPhone 4 and 5 and the Galaxy S4. It's not one of the newer generation Exmor RS sensors, but the advantages of those sensors has been overplayed. They're mostly still 1/3 sensors and so, whatever. A 1/3 sensor is never going to make for a great camera. But it is the status quo these days so it's not going to be subpar either (like for example the Nexus 4 that has a tiny 1/4 sensor).
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If you'd like to chip in on the 700+ I have to put into this phone, I feel the right to have my own opinion on it.
I like a decent cam in the device.
I want to to be up to my standards, now yours. We don't know if this is the final hw version of the camera. We'll see that in a few weeks.
I want a nexus, w/ a non moto esque camera. The N5 was good enough. Except able.
For example the moto X took decent pictures... but they were really bad, and grainy and had weird artifacts. There was grain, and distortion in high light.
The moto x 2014 is crap in low light, the light ring isn't really conducive to light up anything.
The nexus 6 has the same set up, which makes me nervous. The camera is in theory the same as well.
All I'm saying is their track record is bad. Googles been talking about making better cameras on their flag ship devices for ages. So we're hoping w/ this one it's a home run
They weren't restricted in price in this variation. They put in very high end spec, and components. If the camera isn't just as good as the Galaxy S4 I will be upset. Very upset.
The S4 had a wonderful camera.
That's my bench mark.
ericerk said:
If you'd like to chip in on the 700+ I have to put into this phone, I feel the right to have my own opinion on it.
I like a decent cam in the device.
I want to to be up to my standards, now yours. We don't know if this is the final hw version of the camera. We'll see that in a few weeks.
I want a nexus, w/ a non moto esque camera. The N5 was good enough. Except able.
For example the moto X took decent pictures... but they were really bad, and grainy and had weird artifacts. There was grain, and distortion in high light.
The moto x 2014 is crap in low light, the light ring isn't really conducive to light up anything.
The nexus 6 has the same set up, which makes me nervous. The camera is in theory the same as well.
All I'm saying is their track record is bad. Googles been talking about making better cameras on their flag ship devices for ages. So we're hoping w/ this one it's a home run
They weren't restricted in price in this variation. They put in very high end spec, and components. If the camera isn't just as good as the Galaxy S4 I will be upset. Very upset.
The S4 had a wonderful camera.
That's my bench mark.
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You have the right to have your opinion but that doesn't make it a thoughtful opinion.
If you think the Nexus 5 was good enough, with a Sony Exmor IMX179 1/3.2 sensor, than it makes zero sense to think that the Nexus 6 with a newer technically better Sony Exmor IMX214 and slightly larger 1/3.06 sensor is worse, and it makes even less sense to think that the 2nd Gen Moto X with a newer generation Sony Exmor RS IMX135 and also slightly larger 1/3.06 sensor is worse.
People make all these subjective judgements about the cameras in the phones and don't realize that they all have more or less the same sensor in them from Sony.
What's more you based your initial judgement about the Nexus 6 camera on a couple random poorly taken snapshots linked to in the OP, from a pre-prodcution Nexus 6 that may not have even had the same sensor in it as the final production unit.
So yes you have a right to your opinion. But it is a very poorly reasoned, jumping to unfounded conclusions opinion, based on a misunderstanding of the actual sensors in these phones. Wait for a good site, like Dpreview to test the camera in the Nexus 6 or Moto X and then maybe you will have a basis for coming to some sort of conclusion.
But in the end, with the 1/3 sensors, these phones are still going to all be in the same ballpark. People can make a big deal out of minor distinctions, if they want to, but it's silly and not meaningful in real world situations. The reason to spend a lot of money on a phone like this is not for the camera.
cb474 said:
You have the right to have your opinion but that doesn't make it a thoughtful opinion.
If you think the Nexus 5 was good enough, with a Sony Exmor IMX179 1/3.2 sensor, than it makes zero sense to think that the Nexus 6 with a newer technically better Sony Exmor IMX214 and slightly larger 1/3.06 sensor is worse, and it makes even less sense to think that the 2nd Gen Moto X with a newer generation Sony Exmor RS IMX135 and also slightly larger 1/3.06 sensor is worse.
People make all these subjective judgements about the cameras in the phones and don't realize that they all have more or less the same sensor in them from Sony.
What's more you based your initial judgement about the Nexus 6 camera on a couple random poorly taken snapshots linked to in the OP, from a pre-prodcution Nexus 6 that may not have even had the same sensor in it as the final production unit.
So yes you have a right to your opinion. But it is a very poorly reasoned, jumping to unfounded conclusions opinion, based on a misunderstanding of the actual sensors in these phones. Wait for a good site, like Dpreview to test the camera in the Nexus 6 or Moto X and then maybe you will have a basis for coming to some sort of conclusion.
But in the end, with the 1/3 sensors, these phones are still going to all be in the same ballpark. People can make a big deal out of minor distinctions, if they want to, but it's silly and not meaningful in real world situations. The reason to spend a lot of money on a phone like this is not for the camera.
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My opinion is based off of the moto x 2014. Nothing concrete has been released about the camera internals that I've seen.
I'm buying this phone even if it doesn't have a camera (That's a lie)
As I note above more than once, the Nexus 6 has the Sony Exmor IMX214 sensor. That information is readily available online. See: http://www.devicespecifications.com/en/model/617b3011. This is the same sensor as in the OnePlus One, a phone for which the camera has been praised a lot and the OnePlus One doesn't even have OIS.
That being said, the 2nd Gen Moto X, as I said, has a Sony Exmor RS IMX135. This is the same sensor as in the Galaxy S4, making it completely silly that you're so down on the 2nd Gen Moto X, but hold up the Galaxy S4 as your minimun standard that a phone camera has to meet. The IMX135 can also be found in the LG G3, the LG G2, the Note 3, amongst many other phones, further putting the lie to the idea that there are big differences between the cameras in these phones.
Doesn't camera software also play a role in how well a photo is taken?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
DirgeExtinction said:
Doesn't camera software also play a role in how well a photo is taken?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
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To some degree yes. But it's relevance is pretty minor. Sometimes there are problems when a phone first comes out that are later corrected in software updates(colors being off one way or another). A lot of phones favor oversaturated colors, instead of more realistic colors, which is something determined by how the image is processed by the phone after it is captured. Some phones apply more sharpening effects, which at first glance make an image look, well, sharper, but actually eliminate some detail in the image (though you will only notice if you zoom all the way in to the pixel level--which is not what most people are doing, most people are downsizing images to send to people and therefore eliminating most of quality of the image to begin with). But again, this is all fiddling around the edges to compensate for what are essentially very small sensors that are simply physically limited in what they can do.
Also, these software effects are pretty much all things that can be changed in post-processing on a computer, so they are not ultimate limitations to the images that can be produced with a particular phone. But the sensor is such a limitation, there is no getting beyond what it is or is not possible with a paritcular sensor.
Looks like we're gonna get another mediocre camera in a Nexus device, nothing abnormal here. I don't mind too much, I rarely, if ever, use my phone as a camera. If I anticipate taking photos, I'll bring a real, decent camera with me. Otherwise the mediocre shots from the Nexus'll be just fine.
Was kind of hoping that they'd get the camera right this time, though. I would have been nice, especially for others who rely on it more, but it seems they put their money elsewhere.
PewPewK said:
Looks like we're gonna get another mediocre camera in a Nexus device, nothing abnormal here. I don't mind too much, I rarely, if ever, use my phone as a camera. If I anticipate taking photos, I'll bring a real, decent camera with me. Otherwise the mediocre shots from the Nexus'll be just fine.
Was kind of hoping that they'd get the camera right this time, though. I would have been nice, especially for others who rely on it more, but it seems they put their money elsewhere.
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Did you look at my posts above? The Nexus 6 has the same Sony camera sensor as the OnePlus One, which a lot of people have praised for it's photos. Plus it has OIS. Yes the Nexus 5 and especially the Nexus 4 had subpar cameras, by today's standards. But the Nexus 6 is pretty much on a par with all other flagships out there. It should be a step up (on a par with the LG G3, iPhone, Galaxy S4, etc.).
That being said, as I've argued above, all of the latest flagship phones these days have mediocre cameras, because of their 1/3 sensors, so in that sense the Nexus 6 will be no different. The only truly good flagship phone camera is the Galaxy S5, which has a larger 1/2.5 sensor. And the only phones with what could be called next generation, big step forward cameras, are the Nokia 1020 and the Nokia 808, with huge 1/1.5 and 1/1.2 sensors (respectively), mechanicals shutters, and other advances way beyond anything else.
But I think there's no reason to be down on the Nexus 6 for it's camera. It's keeping up with the pack.