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At the office I leave my phone in a cradle. When I get calls I remove the phone to answer and then return it to the cradle when done. My battery goes from 100% down to somewhere in the 90's then charges back to 100% in the cradle. Does this repeated process harm the battery in any way? I've read that these batteries don't suffer from the memory effect, but I'm still not sure if this counts as a charging cycle.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
You should always let the battery run down completely some times maybe once a week.
Really? I've read on this forum that there is no need to do that with the new Lithium Ion batteries. I've even read that this could have a negative effect and you should try not to let the battery drain completly.
I don't understand why there isn't a proper battery care section in the manual. Its as if its some kind of voodoo science.
Perhaps not Once a week. But Once a "while"
The reason is that, Phone software uses approximation to calculate the charge left in the Battery. So over time, battery ages and software may not be calibrated to match with the battery's storage capacity. So draining the battery entirely and charging them fully gives the phone's software to assess the battery's health and recalibrate.
It's a lithium battery mate. The only way you can really damage it is by a complete discharge. So long as you don't switch the phone back on once it switches itself off due to low battery you needn't worry about anything else.
Also in theory the lithium batteries have a lifespan of say about a 1000 charges for example and everytime you charge it has one charging less left. This ofcourse isn't exactly how it is in practice but charging the battery alot wears it down. It isn't good either to keep it in the charger for a longer time after it's reached a 100%.
Hi,
this is only partly correct:
Suppose the battery can make 1000 (which I don't believe) charge cycles,
it means that you can charge 1000 times from empty to full.
If you just charge 1000 times from 50% empty to full it counts for 500 cycles!
So,
don't worry, let it stay in the cradle if you like
There are 500 opinions about that but believe, as I wrote is correct.
Theo
Yes, what I said wasn't exact science and I used 1000 cycles as an example, but from what I've read it is better to let the battery drain to less than 50% and then charge it full rather than charge 5% at a time. My previous post was meant to illustrate this.
Sent from my Leedroid powered pocketsized supercomputer using XDA App
geenome said:
You should always let the battery run down completely some times maybe once a week.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a load of crap, no offense... Lithium batteries have no memory effect and have absolutely no need to be completely discharged, that's a ancient thing from the time of nickel-metal hybrid batteries. The only actual reason for full charge cycles is to calibrate the device for that exact battery.
Keeping a lithium-ion battery in a charger most of the time will wear the battery down faster than getting it drain more and then charging it. Keeping the battery almost fully loaded/in a constant loading state wears the battery capacity by approximately 20% a year (can't recall the source/study just now)(EDIT: and my personal experience is that the battery capacity will wear that much anyway, no matter how you use it). The life-cycle of phones these days are roughly two years nowadays so IMO you can keep it in a cradle with no worries, if you wish. And lets face it, a new battery after a year of usage won't be that big an investment after all.
To add to the above post, running down a lithium battery completely does more damage than benefit. This is almost impossible though with normal use as the phone shuts down long before the battery is completely empty
Hi!
I'm about to receive the Kindle Fire, and I try to cure my curiosity by finding answers to all my questions. XDA has answered most of them, but I've one more question I hope you can help me with.
I know I'll spend a lot of time using the Kindle Fire at home, mostly reading and listening to music. My question is therefore: How should I charge and use the Kindle? Let's say the battery is 100%, and I plug in the charger and start reading - will the Kindle continue to charge it, use some, charge it (100%, 98%, 100%, 98%...), or stop the charging completely and power it directly from the charger?
Will I shorten the lifetime of the battery by plugging in the charger if the battery level is 100%? I know it's good for the battery to be used, so I'll of course do that from time to time.
hachiueno said:
Hi!
I'm about to receive the Kindle Fire, and I try to cure my curiosity by finding answers to all my questions. XDA has answered most of them, but I've one more question I hope you can help me with.
I know I'll spend a lot of time using the Kindle Fire at home, mostly reading and listening to music. My question is therefore: How should I charge and use the Kindle? Let's say the battery is 100%, and I plug in the charger and start reading - will the Kindle continue to charge it, use some, charge it (100%, 98%, 100%, 98%...), or stop the charging completely and power it directly from the charger?
Will I shorten the lifetime of the battery by plugging in the charger if the battery level is 100%? I know it's good for the battery to be used, so I'll of course do that from time to time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The life spam of the charger will shorten but not the kindle. If ur kindle is at 100 then the charger wellkeep it at 100.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using xda premium
If im not mistaken, I believe its good to fully drain and recharge your battery once in a while(since the battery is li-ion) to maintain the lifespan of the battery.
As for needing to be tethered to the wall by the charger, I have not found that as something I need to do at home, especially since I prefer to move around.
In short you can just use the kindle normally while letting the battery normally discharge and then recharge it when it starts to get low. To help with the battery life you should also adjust the brightness according to the light.
Yes, thank you for your answers The reason as to why I'm a bit concerned about this is that I've seen laptop batteries' capacities getting seriously reduced after having the battery installed while having the charger connected simultaneously at all times. I guess this is due to bad charging control, and that the chargers have tried to charge the batteries even though they were 100%.
Since the Kindle Fire has a non-removable battery (more or less...), I would like to treat my battery as good as possible
hachiueno said:
Yes, thank you for your answers The reason as to why I'm a bit concerned about this is that I've seen laptop batteries' capacities getting seriously reduced after having the battery installed while having the charger connected simultaneously at all times. I guess this is due to bad charging control, and that the chargers have tried to charge the batteries even though they were 100%.
Since the Kindle Fire has a non-removable battery (more or less...), I would like to treat my battery as good as possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't need to worry about kindle fire battery, trust me, it's very good. My Kindle Fire doesn't get charged when the AC Adapter is connected, don't know if it's only me since I don't use an US Charger. I can charge only in sleep mode.
Remember to turn wifi off when you don't need it, even if it is in sleep mode. You will see that the battery will last much longer with wifi off.
Regarding charging kindle fire, I always use it till 30% and then I charge it Full.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk
My battery is sometimes lasting over 4 days with light use so charging is not a frequent thing. I always drain the battery to less than 5% before recharging. I can start a 25 minutes tv show when I'm at less than 10% and not worry about the battery dying before the show is over.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk
hachiueno said:
Yes, thank you for your answers The reason as to why I'm a bit concerned about this is that I've seen laptop batteries' capacities getting seriously reduced after having the battery installed while having the charger connected simultaneously at all times. I guess this is due to bad charging control, and that the chargers have tried to charge the batteries even though they were 100%.
Since the Kindle Fire has a non-removable battery (more or less...), I would like to treat my battery as good as possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These Li-Ion batteries and charging circuits have built in protection circuits to prevent themselves from ever being overcharged (because overcharging a LiIon battery can cause thermal runaway, i.e. it gets extremely hot and then explodes).
That problem you've seen with laptop batteries can still happen to any Li-Ion battery though (assuming those were Li-Ion laptop batteries too. NiMh batters have their own problems). The problem isn't overcharging the battery but in keeping it at a high charge state for a long time without cycling it. I don't know where these figures come from, but I've been told that to maintain consistent battery life over time you should let your Li-Ion batterys run down every two weeks or so, that for long-term storage when not being used they should be left at around 40% charge, and that not charging them past 80% full can even extend the life of the battery
I don't fancy myself a battery expert, but damn are there some shady information here.
Here's the "down low":
For Li-based batteries (pretty much all modern electronics), they have limited life from the get go, a limited charge cycle (how many times it can get discharged / charged).
If you leave it plugged in at all times, despite what you may think, this will actually KILL the battery very quickly. Why? Batteries are not kept charged at full 100% (it can cause long-term damage if it does so). It charges to 100%, and drains up to 10%, and keeps it steady at that level. If it gets lower, it recharges again (there goes your limited charge cycle in a flash).
What you should do is charge it full, unplug, and recharge when it's "used" (e.g. 30-80%), not when it's almost full (waste of the cycle), or when it's almost empty (suffers too much stress).
Avoid hot areas (leaving the battery / device in a hot car), as heat also reduces the lifetime of the cycles.
For long term storage, as boomn said, 40%, cool and dry place is ideal.
For more info, read it here at Battery University.
Ignore everything above for Ni-based batteries. I won't go into details on prolonging Ni-based battery's life since it's not relevant here, but you can read up on that site Battery University (charging and discharging).
Thank you so much for your replies! A lot of great information here, especially your last answer, Printerscape. Hope to keep my battery in shape for a long time.
Can't wait to get my Kindle... and yes, first 100%, then I'll unplug it and use it for some hours. It will be interesting to see if user replaceable batteries will be offered for the Kindle Fire in the future. After having seen the iFixit teardown, it seems to be a reasonable task.
Printerscape said:
What you should do is charge it full, unplug, and recharge when it's "used" (e.g. 30-80%), not when it's almost full (waste of the cycle), or when it's almost empty (suffers too much stress).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was under the impression that a charge cycle doesn't happen every time you get to 100%. Say you run it down to 50%, charge it to 100%, run it down to 50% then charge it to 100% again, only then it would count as a full charge cycle.
dragossh said:
I was under the impression that a charge cycle doesn't happen every time you get to 100%. Say you run it down to 50%, charge it to 100%, run it down to 50% then charge it to 100% again, only then it would count as a full charge cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my impression as well. Apple mentions the same thing regarding charging and cycles: http://www.apple.com/batteries/:
For instance, you could listen to your iPod for a few hours one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so you may take several days to complete a cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should I charge it for like 10 hours, then play with it? or you think its ok to just start playing out of the box.
I've heard stories..where you should, and where it's not necessary.
Thanks
lin013190 said:
Should I charge it for like 10 hours, then play with it? or you think its ok to just start playing out of the box.
I've heard stories..where you should, and where it's not necessary.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine came nearly full. I just plugged it into charger out of the box and played with it while it was charging
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
With any new phone I always play with it till it dies and then plug it in and charge for 8 hours and then power it on and good to go
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
Hmm, I see.:cyclops:
With every electronic gadget using Lithium-ion batteries nowadays, it doesn't really matter how/when you charge it.
Some would argue to make sure to allow a full discharge from a full charge from a battery calibration point of view, so the battery meter is more accurate. It wouldn't affect the health of the battery itself either way.
Things like memory effect doesn't apply to lithium-ion. How often you charge it and how much you charge it (full or partial charge etc.) doesn't affect it much either. The only 2 things that can potential kill a lithium-ion is high temperature and letting it discharge far too low to the point that it cannot be charged up again. Note that all electronic devices will power off way before it even reaches this threshold.
What makaijin says is correct
I had mine a bit of a charge yesterday but it was no where near full.
Used it till it was flat this morning. It's currently on charge and I'm going to leave it till it's full only because I need to stop messing with it and do other things
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
I charged mine for 4 hours before use.
Although it is probably not necessary nowadays, I like to fully discharge the device, then charge it overnight (so it gets back up to 100% and tops off), then cycle it that way 2/3 times, so properly "condition" the battery, as I don't 100% trust the conditioning done before shipping.
Just as a side note, most of the battery conditioning lore is coming from way back in the bad ol' nicad days (probably 1990's), when you HAD to 100% discharge/recharge the battery, and make sure it didn't overcharge or undercharge, else it would not be "conditioned" properly, and it had a permanently reduced max charge. Nowadays, expecially with Lion, it is not necessary, and may even be harmful to fully discharge/recharge cycle EVERY time you use it. The first few times it's probably best to do it to fully condition the battery, but beyond that, it really does nothing.
hanthesolo said:
Although it is probably not necessary nowadays, I like to fully discharge the device, then charge it overnight (so it gets back up to 100% and tops off), then cycle it that way 2/3 times, so properly "condition" the battery, as I don't 100% trust the conditioning done before shipping.
Just as a side note, most of the battery conditioning lore is coming from way back in the bad ol' nicad days (probably 1990's), when you HAD to 100% discharge/recharge the battery, and make sure it didn't overcharge or undercharge, else it would not be "conditioned" properly, and it had a permanently reduced max charge. Nowadays, expecially with Lion, it is not necessary, and may even be harmful to fully discharge/recharge cycle EVERY time you use it. The first few times it's probably best to do it to fully condition the battery, but beyond that, it really does nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Conditioning" does not occur with li-on batteries, period. Charging/discharging does absolutely nothing for the life of your battery.
Ifixit shows that the battery inside the Nexus 7 is Lithium Polymer. Does that make a difference in terms of conditioning compared to Li-Ion batteries?
MaxCarnage said:
"Conditioning" does not occur with li-on batteries, period. Charging/discharging does absolutely nothing for the life of your battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, thanks. I thought that was my being paranoid .
Lithium Polymer batteries are actually worse than Lithium-Ion. Don't take my word for it, but at least with older RC Lipo batteries, fully discharging damages them even more the lithium-ion. I am sure the tablet cuts off way before the danger point, but still something to keep in mind.
Here's the deal- and this has been verified on multiple devices with larger batteries- Your tablet will need to self-calibrate the battery meter/charging to the battery. You can expect things like sketchy battery life and running down very low or completely overnight for the first couple days. Once everything "syncs up", you can take advantage of the full potential of the battery. This happened with my Razr Maxx and it happened on my Nexus 7's first overnight. And, talking to people who have had their Nexus 7's a few days, it's common and expected.
As said, it is NOT the battery conditioning, it is the device calibrating. The battery is pretty big and there's a period of time while the device learns.
I decided to drain the battery all the way and then charge it all the way up. It's charging right now actually, any idea how long it should take to get up to 100%?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda app-developers app
phoneman09 said:
I decided to drain the battery all the way and then charge it all the way up. It's charging right now actually, any idea how long it should take to get up to 100%?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure but you can always tap the power button to pull up the battery charge animation. It should let you know when it is fully charged.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Over discharging a Lithium Ion battery can ruin it in a single cycle. Of course any consumer device should shut off before that happens but deep discharges to the shut off point still permanently reduce battery capacity significantly more than shallower discharge cycles.
In simple terms, you'll get significantly more hours of battery use during its lifetime if you only discharge to 50% than 10% or less.
Lithium Ion batteries never need to be "fully discharged" to the device shut off point and as stated above, it isn't "good" for them.
That said, a discharge from fully charged to at or near shutoff let's the device software measure the battery capacity more accurately so you'll get a more accurate battery reading.
Lithium Ion batteries should not be charged at elevated temperatures. If you just watched a two hour movie, let it cool down before charging. A tablet is a nasty place for a battery with the CPU heating it up. Most manufacturers advise not charging at > 85 deg F and 70 deg F is better. A really good charger will measure battery temperature and reduce the max charging rate at elevated temperatures.
Lithium Ion batteries should be stored at 50-70% capacity and not fully charged. That's ~3.7 V per cell. Those of us who use the device a lot on external power would see a lot longer battery life if there was a mode which allowed keeping the battery below 100% while on external power. It seems every manufacturer thinks consumers are too dumb to understand the value of providing it and switching to full charge mode before we run off on battery power.
TP_NC_USER said:
Over discharging a Lithium Ion battery can ruin it in a single cycle. Of course any consumer device should shut off before that happens but deep discharges to the shut off point still permanently reduce battery capacity significantly more than shallower discharge cycles.
In simple terms, you'll get significantly more hours of battery use during its lifetime if you only discharge to 50% than 10% or less.
Lithium Ion batteries never need to be "fully discharged" to the device shut off point and as stated above, it isn't "good" for them.
That said, a discharge from fully charged to at or near shutoff let's the device software measure the battery capacity more accurately so you'll get a more accurate battery reading.
Lithium Ion batteries should not be charged at elevated temperatures. If you just watched a two hour movie, let it cool down before charging. A tablet is a nasty place for a battery with the CPU heating it up. Most manufacturers advise not charging at > 85 deg F and 70 deg F is better. A really good charger will measure battery temperature and reduce the max charging rate at elevated temperatures.
Lithium Ion batteries should be stored at 50-70% capacity and not fully charged. That's ~3.7 V per cell. Those of us who use the device a lot on external power would see a lot longer battery life if there was a mode which allowed keeping the battery below 100% while on external power. It seems every manufacturer thinks consumers are too dumb to understand the value of providing it and switching to full charge mode before we run off on battery power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would rather always have my battery near max charge when I take it off the charger than have a battery last 7 years instead of 3 or 4 in a device I will realistically only use extensively for 2. Even more so with a phone where they battery can replaced for $20. I'll take a full charge every time over the battery lasting for years longer than I need it to.
I have a first gen iPod Touch I bought when they were released (2007 I think?). I have left it on a charger for MONTHS. Still holds a decent charge.
Is there benefit to using a battery calibration app like this if you're rooted?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nema.batterycalibration&hl=en
You don't have to but I like to. Mine was like 40% charged when I unboxed
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
sRDennyCrane said:
Here's the deal- and this has been verified on multiple devices with larger batteries- Your tablet will need to self-calibrate the battery meter/charging to the battery. You can expect things like sketchy battery life and running down very low or completely overnight for the first couple days. Once everything "syncs up", you can take advantage of the full potential of the battery. This happened with my Razr Maxx and it happened on my Nexus 7's first overnight. And, talking to people who have had their Nexus 7's a few days, it's common and expected.
As said, it is NOT the battery conditioning, it is the device calibrating. The battery is pretty big and there's a period of time while the device learns.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calibration occurs every time the battery is charged to 100%. It isn't a "first few days" type of thing, it is every single time the battery meter reaches 100%.
I had no choice but to completely charge my N7 (purchased from Office Depot 7/14). When I went to turn it on the first time, I was greeted with small text in the upper left side of the screen that said "show low battery logo" on a completely black screen. No logo...no nothing. Completely blank. Plugged it in, the battery charging logo popped up, fully charged it and it's been working great since.
However, I found it a bit odd as I thought most of these types of devices ship with about a 40% battery charge.
Thoughts?
We all know that the One (and many other modern cellphones) have a Lithium Ion battery. While these batteries have no traditional 'memory effect' the way NiMH did, it seems that different chemistries for the electrolyte would suggest different strategies for recharging.
For example, after looking at the Wikipedia entry for Lithium batteries, it would seem that we should be mindful about 'topping off' the battery, because charging deteriorates the lifespan, implying that running down the battery might be a more advisable practice than plugging in to fully charge every night.
Wondering if any of you experts out there can comment and discuss, given that we One users no longer have replacable cells.
Good question, I too would be very interested in hearing from some of the posters that are knowledgeable in this area.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
Edit: Note that I mention Lithium Ion in this post, but the HTC One uses Lithium Polymer. They are for all intents and purposes equal in terms of their usability, except for slightly less charge cycles
Edit 2: Hello Reddit! No idea this would have taken off. I'm "coolmatty" on reddit. This is an overall generalization, and there are plenty of resources that go into more detail. Places like Battery University are great sites to start.
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
You have no idea how many people need this post (on some points, myself included). Thanks.
Vincent Law said:
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Nyxagamemnon said:
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is a practical approach for me now, after reading this all, is to charge it every night.
This way
- I have better chances for not running out of battery during the day
- either it was at 75% (3rd row) or 50% (2nd row) I still have better longevity than charging from 0% most of the time.
Battery life will not degrade as long as you donot empty its charge for long time and donot use it while on charge... over heat on battery aged the battery...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium
Just wanted to add: li-ion and li-po batteries now-a-days have protection circuitry to prevent overcharge and over-discharge. Overcharge protection based on what is stated above, known as trickle charge. Over-discharge protection means that your phone will shut off when your battery is around 3v per cell, whereas you should refrain from force starting the phone. The only benefit you get from fully charging/discharging is battery calibration for cell mismatches. It is also good to know that partial charges are better than full charges when it comes to lithium ion (and lithium polymer) batteries.
The HTC one uses li-poly, not li-ion
Can read all about the advantages and disadvantages of each other here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
li-poly
Advantages
Very low profile - batteries resembling the profile of a credit card are feasible.
Flexible form factor - manufacturers are not bound by standard cell formats. With high volume, any reasonable size can be produced economically.
Lightweight - gelled electrolytes enable simplified packaging by eliminating the metal shell.
Improved safety - more resistant to overcharge; less chance for electrolyte leakage.
Limitations
Lower energy density and decreased cycle count compared to lithium-ion.
Expensive to manufacture.
No standard sizes. Most cells are produced for high volume consumer markets.
Higher cost-to-energy ratio than lithium-ion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I am concerned, li-poly is overall better for phones where you can't change the battery.
by the looks of that article it was done quite a while ago (for the tech. world) so the disadvantages might not be as much of a problem these days.....
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using a simplification. It would be better not to let it go to 0, but most charge cycles are rated on this. I do mention the impact of letting the battery go to 0%.
Miketoberfest said:
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A flub on my part, you are correct. There are minor differences (the only one that matters to us is slightly shorter lifetime capacity) but otherwise it works the same.
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that was only for the old Ni-MH batteries as they had to be bedded in as such. The newer ones dont need this
Vincent Law said:
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
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Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
ragingredbull said:
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
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I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
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As I mentioned in my first post, Lithium batteries do not require conditioning. The purpose for this on old Ni-Cad batteries was to avoid the memory effect, which could result in a battery appearing to be dead long before it actually was. For instance, if you always charged it from 60%, after many instances of this, the Ni-Cad battery would suffer a voltage drop at that point, which most electronics can't handle (some can, however, and once past the short period of low voltage, they will recover and continue normally).
Charging for 24 hours is most certainly not relevant, as once the battery reaches 100%, charging has ceased anyway. There's no need to charge it to 100% anyway, other than to give you more time to play with your new toy
---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------
stevedebi said:
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
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You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Vincent Law said:
...
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
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Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
stevedebi said:
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
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I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Vincent Law said:
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
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The latest research from the Auto manufacturers is that Li-Ion technology works longest if the battery level is between 50 and 80%.
My Toshiba U925 ultra portable uses the optional 80% max. If you use the laptop almost exclusively while plugged in, it will help provide battery longevity, or so I understand.
Many laptops won't work unless the battery is in place. It depends on how they built the power circuits.
Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
Lithium ion batteries have come a long way. There is no "memory effect" and conditioning is probably not really all that necessary. If I were you I'd just give it a charge to 100 and use as normal. Might have high drain for the first few days/charge cycles.
Remember that with Li-Ion batteries a "charge cycle" is one complete cycle from 0% to 100%. So by charging when it's at 50% you're only using up one half of a "rated charge cycle" - Battery conditioning shouldn't really be required with modern lithium ion batteries.
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
gaff15 said:
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
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This makes sense I guess. But wouldn't the battery percentage remaining be based on the voltage in the battery at a given moment? I wouldn't think the phone would need to "learn" that.
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
Xileforce said:
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
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The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
Ashevar said:
The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
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This makes sense. The article I read awhile back was likely referring to non smart charging systems, such as a battery pack. It makes sense that an integrated solution such as a phone would regulate that to maintain battery health.
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
meyerweb said:
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
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#1 -> Could be a problem. Manufacturers can set the 100% mark at higher voltage to make it look like it has more capacity while sacrificing longevity, just enough to get through the 1 year warranty period. (Lot of powerbanks do this!) Users have no control of this ceiling. Charging to 80% and letting it cycle below that probably keeps the battery much healthier than keeping it plugged overnight at 100%.
There's an app called AccuBattery on playstore that people might want to check out. It's basically an alarm that turns on when the battery is at desired % level. It also cites real research papers so I would trust what they are doing.
I used to have a long post with a detailed technical explanation but lost it.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
just use the dang phone...
cri[LIST=1 said:
[/LIST]s_epic;65635276]Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
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That's actually a perfect way to ruin your battery on purpose!
Just do these things and Don't worry a lot. And remember, when it does die it's not your fault, it's kind of a problem with Lion batteries!
1. Try to keep the battery between 40-80% or 20-40%. But don't worry if tou can't. Saying this in case you're staying at home all day.
2.Keep the heat away from it!!! This one is important
3. Try to discharge it at a lower rate but don't let that get in the way of you enjoying your device.
4. Try not to discharge below 8% at all. But try to not discharge it below 15-20% unless you have important things to do.
5. don't keep it topped of for a long time (like constant going 90-100%, this is damaging) and don't keep it at 100% for long! (For example turning it off and stop using it for a week, or keeping it plugged for a few days)
If you're storing it keep it at 40% (3.8-3.75V) and try to drain it once in a while. (Unlikely to happen with a phone specially one without a removable battery )
I really do hope someone invents a new type of battery. Lipos are anoyying
Simple you don't need too lol
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