Database Users

[Q] Christmas Present for 5 boys?

I am looking for a tab(like) device for a christmas present for each of my boys. We travel a lot to family and they are used to playing their DSs and PSPs but would the KF be a solid replacement (emulators...)? Battery life/durability/price and fuctionality will be the deciding factor. They enjoy games (birds and such) on my phone and using my phone as a wifi HS in the car, it makes sence not to spend the extra money for a 3G tab.
If the KF is not the answer would a NC(rooted) be a more acceptable item?
Other ideas?
Thanks

Why would you want to replace the PSPs and DSs? Are the boys unhappy with them? Both devices have a solid backing.
In general, I think the Fire would probably work out ok, especially since you do a buy-once-share-to-all on apps, books, and music (I'm assuming each boy gets his own).

get them the new ps vita (new psp) that's coming out for the holidays.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda premium

Two use their DSi(s) and the PSP has gone by the wayside. I am pushing the tab issue due to is versitility (apps/learning/games/music/video). I dont feel they are ready for their own laptop. Ages are 12,11,10,9,7 .... 3 and 5 months but the later two are not considered in the equation, unless someone pops up with a water proof model.
I have been looking at the NC, I dont have an issue rooting it and making it more versitile.

The Fire wouldn't be a bad way to go for what you want, but myself, I would go ahead with the laptop instead. Snag a couple of older models for $100 or so off Craigslist, let them get the hang of things on before handing them something nicer.

Little812 said:
Two use their DSi(s) and the PSP has gone by the wayside. I am pushing the tab issue due to is versitility (apps/learning/games/music/video). I dont feel they are ready for their own laptop. Ages are 12,11,10,9,7 .... 3 and 5 months but the later two are not considered in the equation, unless someone pops up with a water proof model.
I have been looking at the NC, I dont have an issue rooting it and making it more versitile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My 2 year old daughter loves the Nook Color and iPad. On the iPad she can wake it, unlock it, swipe to the page she wants and launch apps. I suspect the fire will be just as easy. the Nook Color takes more work to make it toddler friendly. But your kids are old enough that either the NC or Fire would be easy to pick up. I personally would pick the Fire over the Color if I had to pick. The experience isn't as smooth as I hope it will be on the Fire. I would guess because it's essentially a hacked together piece of kit and a slower processor.

I think you'll have an easier time deciding when all the reviews come out.
But I can tell you that my nephews absolutely love the rooted nook color they have and the Kindle Fire will almost certainly be better.

For your kids? I'd wait and read User Reviews and not the Professionals once the device is out for a while.
A lot of semi-negative info is floating around on "scalability" and what it can or cannot do (the AF, that is).
Kids get bored quickly and a device (any device) that one cannot modify, add to or otherwise personalize may or may not be a good long term solution.

Thanks all around. The wife and I discussed it last night and we are going to wait before pre-ordering and look at some reviews.
Thank you all for your responses.

FYI: Nook Color refurb for $149 at Buy.com
They're not really refurb, they're new units with full 1-yr warranty from B&N. They're labeled that way presumably to clear inventory w/o impacting the official price.
I've gotten 3 refurbs from various discount vendors, and they've always been new. Since I open up my electronics to tinker, it's easy to tell when a device is new as vs been serviced.
http://www.buy.com/prod/nook-color-...ed/q/loc/111/221376447.html?sellerId=31227291
The good thing about the NC over the KF is that it's already supported by CM, and when ICS drops, it'll be one of the first to get it.

I just bought 3 of these (after buying one,) for my boys - 11, 9, and 8.
These are really ideal for kids, especially since you can easily limit their access to stuff if you choose to.
If you know how to hack these, then they are REALLY ideal. You can remove the Silk Browser (or, move it somewhere where it can't easily be found.)
They DO NOT have access to the Google Market - Good THING!
By disabling one-click, you can allow them to download free apps, but not spend any money - IDEAL.
You can setup e-mail on them pretty easily.
They can watch Netflix, Hulu (watch out for age appropriate content - Hulu doesn't limit this as yet,) or even certain shows on Amazon, if you have Prime.
They can read eBooks from the Amazon store, or check out eBooks from the local library.
Kids aren't usually as picky about interfaces. The Bookshelf Launcher is perfect for them.

This or Nook Color?

kindly need help if the lower price of this is worth it?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App

If you do not mind relying on Amazons storage cloud and the Amazon store front for everything, the $200 is a good price. Catch is you need to be around wifi most of the time for practical use of the device.
The Nook is more flexible and not cloud reliance, but $50 more and slower device (most would not notice this unless playing higher encoded video or Flash).
Seems if you do not mind paying a "little" more, the $300 Flyer is the best bet:
1. 8gb more storage
2. card slot for more storage
3. 512mb more ram
4. Based on the Droid 3 and Archos 90 (both same chipset and ram as Fire), the Flyer is a lot faster.
Still, if you are cool with the cloud and an Apple-like iTunes captive environment, the Fire is ok for $200.

lenovo A1 is
199$ for 2 gb
250$ for 16 gb.
single cor 1 ghz processor (I believe it's a little faster than nook)
runs full android 2.3 (if it catches on, there will probably be an ICS rom available)
two cameras (front and back)
7 hour bat life for browsing.
GPS (doesn't need data)
Expandable storage (no relying on cloud)
I'm still hard pressed to buy a kindle 8gb with no options is a really steep gamble.. Not having wifi in a car ride/whatever else means if you have a long trip, you have no storage..
More full featured than nook at same price..

Snow_fox said:
Not having wifi in a car ride/whatever else means if you have a long trip, you have no storage..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A rooted android phone solves this, right?

mikecyber said:
A rooted android phone solves this, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To access cloud storage yes. For many Android phones, you don't even have to be rooted to tether. I personally like the dual boot nature of the NC. Don't need to even root it to run CM on it.

mikecyber said:
Snow_fox said:
Not having wifi in a car ride/whatever else means if you have a long trip, you have no storage..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A rooted android phone solves this, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe, but not necessarily. My Kindle 3 can only access infrastructure wifi and is NOT able to use my phone's ad-hoc wifi network. The same was true of my fire sale HP Touchpad, which I resold for that reason.
I very much hope the Kindle Fire can use ad-hoc wifi; if not, I'll be returning it pretty quickly.

po96od said:
Maybe, but not necessarily. My Kindle 3 can only access infrastructure wifi and is NOT able to use my phone's ad-hoc wifi network. The same was true of my fire sale HP Touchpad, which I resold for that reason.
I very much hope the Kindle Fire can use ad-hoc wifi; if not, I'll be returning it pretty quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry dont mean to hijack this thread I just had one question. The HP touchpad cant connect to a phones wireless teather signal? If that's true I may have to wait for the kindle fire to see if that can. I was just about to buy a touchpad. Thank you!

po96od said:
Maybe, but not necessarily. My Kindle 3 can only access infrastructure wifi and is NOT able to use my phone's ad-hoc wifi network. The same was true of my fire sale HP Touchpad, which I resold for that reason.
I very much hope the Kindle Fire can use ad-hoc wifi; if not, I'll be returning it pretty quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gents,
as far as I remember Android 2.2+ has a tethering option in Settings, that means:
1. U don't need rooting
2. U obtain a real access point (not ad-hoc!) to connect any wi-fi device.

Not to rain on the parade, but some carriers will charge you if they catch you tethering..
Also, after playing with the flyer, I can honestly say if you want a serious tablet, it is the way to go.

andybess22 said:
Sorry dont mean to hijack this thread I just had one question. The HP touchpad cant connect to a phones wireless teather signal? If that's true I may have to wait for the kindle fire to see if that can. I was just about to buy a touchpad. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's quite true. Someone did eventually find a workaround, but it's pretty labor intensive and is limited to creating an open, unencrypted network, not so good for use in public places.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=17566563
---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 PM ----------
tatuk said:
Gents,
as far as I remember Android 2.2+ has a tethering option in Settings, that means:
1. U don't need rooting
2. U obtain a real access point (not ad-hoc!) to connect any wi-fi device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using the Wifi hotspot on the vast majority of phones does require either rooting or paying your carrier a monthly fee to unlock the feature.
Iirc from when I researched this a few months ago, the network type (ad hoc vs. infrastructure) varied from phone to phone. People with different phones reported different results on the Touchpad forum I was frequenting at the time.

Newer versions of Android WiFi tether for Root users will create an infrastructure AP instead of ad-hoc, however, not all phones are supported. Definitely works on the EVO and the DInc, not sure about others.

I think the question is more what ecosystem do you like. The Fire is designed to lock you to the Amazon ecosystem, like the iPad is to Apple's, and the Nook Color to B&N's.
The Amazon ecosystem has Prime which has a great collection of free movies and TV shows with a Prime membership ($80). Amazon also has some free apps and their Market is growing day by day. The NC has a smaller but good market, but lacks in the area of media.
This all assumes you do not need to root your device and add an third party ROM. The NC is proven quantity in the area with CM7 and other ROMS. The Fire is unknown, it may never be rooted, or like the Transformer rooted for a while, and then locked. But, rooting comes with a lot of extra maintenance on the end user. When it is rooted, I really do not know week to week which features are going to work on my NC.

If u keep trying to upgrade ur rom then u are not using ur device as a tablet.. u are testing roms..
I have loaded a stable cm7 release for past 3 months and have never felt the need to upgrade. The rooted CM7 rom is far superior to the original BN rom due to its support of overclocking, without which NC is too laggy and frustrating to use.
jerrykur said:
This all assumes you do not need to root your device and add an third party ROM. The NC is proven quantity in the area with CM7 and other ROMS. The Fire is unknown, it may never be rooted, or like the Transformer rooted for a while, and then locked. But, rooting comes with a lot of extra maintenance on the end user. When it is rooted, I really do not know week to week which features are going to work on my NC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

between the kindle and the nook I don't think there's much to think... Kindle all the way!
even tho it "locks" you to amazon, I'd rather be locked to Amazon than to B&N...
and you can always install a custom rom and get rid of the fire's rom

felipefill said:
between the kindle and the nook I don't think there's much to think... Kindle all the way!
even tho it "locks" you to amazon, I'd rather be locked to Amazon than to B&N...
and you can always install a custom rom and get rid of the fire's rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are presuming the AF will be "rootable" allowing for a custom ROM. That is a bit premature. I would be more than surprised if Amazon didn't learn from B&N and devise a method of thwarting any attempt to root the AF and locking out Amazon.
"Locked In"/"Locked Out" = no choices

Lets put it this way:
Kindle Fire Pros: Superior hardware
Kindle Fire cons: "locked" to amazon, no SD slot, possibility of no dev support(at time of post)
Nook Color Pros: SD slot, active development.
Nook Color cons: Inferior hardware
That about right? I want a Fire, but can't jump on without root/roms available.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

Since my girlfriend has a nook, I am just going to throw this out there right now.
We put CM7 on it, and she isn't looking back to the stock software.
After seeing what all amazon prime has to offer, and the fact that I get a free app a day from Amazon.. I will say that I personally think it is leaps and bounds better than the B&N market.
For 80$ a year.. Amazon Prime offers a *lot* and I don't want to be stuck in their ecosystem, but honestly.. they at least make it worth it.
If your not objecting to spending a little more money than a nook, but a lot less than an ipad.. The htc flyer (as another user has suggested multiple times) is a sexy piece of kit.
Nook is very nice with CM7, but the CM7 for nook isn't nearly as polished as it is for my captivate. I do understand there are good reasons for that fact, but it doesn't change the fact that it is over all less polished than the phone version.
I am not trying to push the flyer just to push the flyer, but honestly.. if you want a tablet.. don't screw yourself and get a product your unhappy with. Get a tablet from the beginning and be done with it. I know we are modders here and the "we can make it work" mentality is very present. I am also aware amazon isn't going to actively try to stop devs from rooting or roming the fire.. However, It still doesn't have much internal memory, or even the ability to expand the memory. It is just flat our problematic for serious use, even with drop box and amazon cloud, because now your literally anchored to wifi spots.
I would be really weary of the nook honestly. It is 50$ more than the kindle fire, the B&N ecosystem needs some serious overhauling in terms of whats offered, and even the CM7 as nice as it is, really doesn't compare to the htc flyer stock.

epakrat75 said:
To access cloud storage yes. For many Android phones, you don't even have to be rooted to tether. I personally like the dual boot nature of the NC. Don't need to even root it to run CM on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't pay a dime for tether,on a rooted phone all day use.i have two tabs already 7 and 10 inch samsung.i tether most of the day five day a week.flawless way to go.i only buy wifi only devices because of this.For the price the fire is a great deal.the cloud is a sweet way to go for videos ,music.It does not use any of your gigs.
simply ginger

tatuk said:
Gents,
as far as I remember Android 2.2+ has a tethering option in Settings, that means:
1. U don't need rooting
2. U obtain a real access point (not ad-hoc!) to connect any wi-fi device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you root you dont pay for a tether plan with your phone company.all day brother.
simply ginger

skeeterpro said:
You are presuming the AF will be "rootable" allowing for a custom ROM. That is a bit premature. I would be more than surprised if Amazon didn't learn from B&N and devise a method of thwarting any attempt to root the AF and locking out Amazon.
"Locked In"/"Locked Out" = no choices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, I'm presuming that...
Has anyone successfully made an unrootable android device?
Ps: I'm not being rude, that's actually a question that I don't know the answer...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Kobo VOX Nice Kindle fire alternative?

This Tablet Im looking at costs the same and has twice the features. Granted the processor isnt quite as strong. But wouldnt this have been a nice alternative to what I bought I think after christmas once I can save some money I might pick one of these babies up its called theKobo Vox. If anyone does pick one up as an alternative, Let me know how it runs I would like to know wether or not its worth it. I would post the link but It wont let me because I dont have that ability yet. Im working though trust me.

It has a slower processor, but it has an sd card slot. What are these other features that the Fire lacks?

Was just looking at specs and think I would rather stay with the kindle fire
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

victimofcanada said:
This Tablet Im looking at costs the same and has twice the features. Granted the processor isnt quite as strong. But wouldnt this have been a nice alternative to what I bought I think after christmas once I can save some money I might pick one of these babies up its called theKobo Vox. If anyone does pick one up as an alternative, Let me know how it runs I would like to know wether or not its worth it. I would post the link but It wont let me because I dont have that ability yet. Im working though trust me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the kobo vox better than the nook color (which at least has a small developer community)?
Don't get me wrong, I would like to see kobo/borders succeed (ie I was at some point interested in buying one of their eInk readers), but the kobo vox (like the eInk device I was interested in) was too little too late.
12 months ago the Kobo Vox might have had a chance ... now though?

Nook Tablet cant even get kexec because they have a locked and signed bootloader. Meaning no chance for custom kernels or a way to load a custom kernel on top of the standard one. The Kobo Vox has volume buttons. which is nice. easier recovery navigation/button combos

grvthang said:
It has a slower processor, but it has an sd card slot. What are these other features that the Fire lacks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It also has a camera and It seems to have volume buttons also physical navigation menu.
death2all110 said:
Nook Tablet cant even get kexec because they have a locked and signed bootloader. Meaning no chance for custom kernels or a way to load a custom kernel on top of the standard one. The Kobo Vox has volume buttons. which is nice. easier recovery navigation/button combos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
andTab said:
How is the kobo vox better than the nook color (which at least has a small developer community)?
Don't get me wrong, I would like to see kobo/borders succeed (ie I was at some point interested in buying one of their eInk readers), but the kobo vox (like the eInk device I was interested in) was too little too late.
12 months ago the Kobo Vox might have had a chance ... now though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The VOX already has hardware features that the kindle and nook are both lacking. Also, it is running almost clean android so its a familiar interface we all know. Granted if this tablet survives (which I hope it does) The next logical step would be huge updates to the processor and ram in the device. while the nook and kindle both would have minor adjustments to the processor and ram and adding features that should have been included in the initial release. I do love my Kindle don't get me wrong I feel like the community here can do some great things with it but its just lacking some major features and Amazon came on a little apple-esque with it. It felt like if there was no root it was almost entirely proprietary.

victimofcanada said:
It also has a camera and It seems to have volume buttons also physical navigation menu.
The VOX already has hardware features that the kindle and nook are both lacking. Also, it is running almost clean android so its a familiar interface we all know. Granted if this tablet survives (which I hope it does) The next logical step would be huge updates to the processor and ram in the device. while the nook and kindle both would have minor adjustments to the processor and ram and adding features that should have been included in the initial release. I do love my Kindle don't get me wrong I feel like the community here can do some great things with it but its just lacking some major features and Amazon came on a little apple-esque with it. It felt like if there was no root it was almost entirely proprietary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reading comprehension = zero.
It is essentially the SAME HARDWARE as the Nook COLOR!!!!!! But without a dev community.
Too little, too late.

I think the biggest advantage the Fire has over this device (and many others) is the sheer number of them on the market.
Many of the (real, lol) developers I know are getting orders for applications directed at the Fire. With the amount of market segmentation for android devices, finding a 'target' is a big deal for people.

andTab said:
Reading comprehension = zero.
It is essentially the SAME HARDWARE as the Nook COLOR!!!!!! But without a dev community.
Too little, too late.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only way to get a nook color outside the US is importing it afaik
This is the same price (against the price charged by an importer) and you can just buy it on the high street (UK).

unrandomsam said:
Only way to get a nook color outside the US is importing it afaik
This is the same price (against the price charged by an importer) and you can just buy it on the high street (UK).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which still proves my point: same price, same hardware but no dev community.
And the OP seems to be from Canada ... where he can get the Nook Color for $150 or less (depending on the available deals).

Cheapy tablet wars, your opinion!

Looking for a tab for my wife. Not only does she get a gift, but I get something to tinker with =)
There's a nook tablet in the trunk of my car. The hardware specs were better, and with the nook color's history, well...I leaped before I looked. The bootloader lockdown makes me a sad panda.
See, I dont want a weaksauce e-reader. I want a tablet! So, with a KF, I can put CM 7 on it (is that a honeycomb build?) and I'll basically have an acceptable tablet experience.
Should I return the nook? Does CM7 run stably on this thing? Are the hardware limitations (esp the lack of sd card port) really that restricting? Should I perhaps buy an actual tablet like a galaxy tab or a xoom?
I appreciate your input!
Duely blundered from my thunderdolt

CM7 is not running with sound, if she can handle that....
This sounds like getting her a shirt in your size and style for Christmas, not much of a gift imo.
Get her something SHE wants, not something YOU want.
(that said, I really like my Kindle Fire. I have not rooted as I actually like the amazon interface and it does everything I want it to do by sideloading apps off of my phone through dropbox. Read all of the issues people are having after rooting or messing with this or that before you get crazy with her device)

Rooting itself is trivial...
I got one of these for my wife.... She had a real hard time using it, not because there was Any issues with the unit, actually it did everything she wanted... The trouble was when she wanted to use it, she had to pry it out of my hands.
I got my own.
While I didn't root her's before I did it on mine, that was more because she didn't need anything other than what it came with. And I wanted to make sure I was not going to mess something up.
So I did all the experimenting on mine, and after doing that, I had no issues with rooting hers to add some "extras". She just keeps it in unroot mode to do all her stuff and stays in the default UI that comes with the Kindle Fire.
At $199 (actually I got mine for $123), it is hard to justify not just getting your own and let her have the present you provided.
I think it is a way cool device... and play with (my own) all the time. She uses her's daily for ebooks, videos, netflix etc..

+1 don't buy her toys for yourself.
I got my wife a Nook Color a few months back that she uses daily. She'd call out a hit on me if I so much as thought of rooting it. I think it's still on 1.3 firmware, but I'm not going near it to find out.

Thanks for the input.
I see what you guys are saying, but it's not what you think. A lot of her family members have gotten ipads, and she wouldn't mind getting a tablet too. We mutually agreed that 500 was too much, and well, I dont subscribe to the maccult.
She always steals my phone to play games on. I have a thunderbolt, and she has an iphone 4. She once made mention that if she could get her favorite games from my phone on a tablet of her own...well, now that would be something.
Since an N64 emulator capable of playing Mario 64 (one of the allures of my phone for her) isn't included off the bat, I'm merely saying I'll enjoy doing the needed mods to this thing.
At 200 or 250 a pop, the price is right, no?
Duely blundered from my thunderdolt

Dannar said:
Thanks for the input.
I see what you guys are saying, but it's not what you think. A lot of her family members have gotten ipads, and she wouldn't mind getting a tablet too. We mutually agreed that 500 was too much, and well, I dont subscribe to the maccult.
She always steals my phone to play games on. I have a thunderbolt, and she has an iphone 4. She once made mention that if she could get her favorite games from my phone on a tablet of her own...well, now that would be something.
Since an N64 emulator capable of playing Mario 64 (one of the allures of my phone for her) isn't included off the bat, I'm merely saying I'll enjoy doing the needed mods to this thing.
At 200 or 250 a pop, the price is right, no?
Duely blundered from my thunderdolt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sideloading is enabled by default on the Fire, so you could load emulators and whatever off-market apps you like without much effort.

Definitely get the KF over the NT if you plan on toying around with it. The Fire's development has picked up in the past few days and I'm sure we'll see a fully working ROM (hopefully CM9) very soon.
I personally have an Acer A100, but got one of my less tech inclined friends to buy a Fire and let me tinker with it until I'm satisfied, then I'll turn it over. So I can definitely relate to the allure of toying around with someone else's devices.

Root it, install Go Launcher EX, install Android market, install Dolphin browser, install Swype, then unroot.
Configure go launcher ex to your taste, then make it the default desktop. Make Dolphin the default browser.
You now have a tablet with the best of both worlds, as you can access all of the Amazon content, including prime videos.

littleemp said:
Definitely get the KF over the NT if you plan on toying around with it. The Fire's development has picked up in the past few days and I'm sure we'll see a fully working ROM (hopefully CM9) very soon.
I personally have an Acer A100, but got one of my less tech inclined friends to buy a Fire and let me tinker with it until I'm satisfied, then I'll turn it over. So I can definitely relate to the allure of toying around with someone else's devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
As a previously very happy Nook Color owner, I was hoping that the NT would get hacked, but that effort seems to have stalled and all the devs are jumping on the NT bandwagon.
Even if the NT gets hacked in 1-2 months, all the devs seem to be getting Kindle Fires now ... and I know from experience that ROM development with only 1-2 devs is not pretty (especially if they eventually lose interest in your device).

I would also get a kindle fire over a nook just because there will be ;ore developpers dedicated to the device. Although, look around the web, HP is going to sell a few touchpads for 99$ on ebay Friday, so you might check it out.

no love for lenovo?

lenovo is a great company and their tablets have competitive specs. why do their tablets have such little dev support compared to the other major android tablets?
I ask because the lenovo tablets coming out this year look very nice, but I hesitate to buy a tablet that won't have good dev support.

I'm on the same boat man. I got the tablet as a christmas wish from my gf... now I found out from timmyDean and other sources that the K1 will not have its bootloader unlocked. Not sure if there will be a way to hack it anytime soon.
I'm going to see if I can sell this thing to buy a transformer prime. Ill be calling lenovo to express my concerns as well. I have a laptop from them with high DPC Latency. Sent it in and came back with same problem and a wiped system with an extra partition.
No more lenovo for me.
If someone somehow manages to hack this thing, then I guess I'll keep it. For now I'm planning its resale value to pick up a different brand.

theoilman said:
lenovo is a great company and their tablets have competitive specs. why do their tablets have such little dev support compared to the other major android tablets?
I ask because the lenovo tablets coming out this year look very nice, but I hesitate to buy a tablet that won't have good dev support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can give you my opinion. We develop software for commercial clients and government and we write drivers for these devices. Unfortunately, most of our business clients want an application that cannot be removed by employees and has all the social networking stuff removed. My NDA does not allow me to say exactly what. But, let me give you an example: Lets say a hospital was looking for a hand held device for reading and signing medical records with an interface to medical equipment. Or traveling salesmen, a delivery driver having someone sign for a package. An application you load on your teenagers device to determine how fast they are moving, etc. Anyway, the list goes on and this is just the business side of it. But you get the picture.
Now, I have a real business need to root every tablet on the market therefore I can tell whomever buys our application that they can buy any tablet they want. Some applications only require root so we can install it so it cannot be removed and we delete the stuff the company doesn't want employees using (like Netflx, Facebook, etc). Or, if the software needs to interface with a particular piece of hardware, we flash a new ROM with custom hardware drivers in the kernel to interface with a particular piece of medical equipment.
So, myself along with other programmers working the business side of it stay away from Lenovo because from the start they lock the bootloader making it difficult to develop for. So we tell ever business to stay away from them.
Then you have individuals like myself that program on their own and I want to tweak something myself. So, when I look around for a tablet to develop on, I look for one that makes it easy to flash(or root). For example, currently my favorite is Motorola Xoom (not the FE) because you can simply unlock it.
So, everyone I know writing business applications stays away from Lenovo or anyone looking to develop a custom ROM as well. Lenovo did come in and meet with management, last year, and what they wanted to sell us was a custom solution. So, they were more than happy to work with us to build a solution. But, we cannot sell something and then tell the buyer that they have to buy a special tablet from Lenovo.
story:
So, what started all this for us, was we were working on a big sale to a Fortune 500 Insurance company and they wanted to use Lenovo. Their IT person loved them. Management in a haste, bought me a K1 to load and play with (mostly because it was cheaper than the TPT or ignorance I guess). So, when I got it, I loved it. And at first it was unlocked. Then the real horror started.
I told management how great the K1 was and within days we had the K1 loaded with the insurance application. They came in, we sold them, I got a bonus and life was good. Then we took an OTA, and the Insurance company started ordering K1's and TPT and to our surprise NOTHING WORKED because Lenovo went to a locked bootloader (Note: The org K1 had root(#) access by default when you connect to it via adb shell and we had not tested it on the TPT).
As you can imagine all hell broke loose. That's when we discovered Lenovo's position on things. During the meeting, I asked them why they locked it. They replied, because they are offering a consumer solution with the K1. It is not just hardware but software (in other words they want to make money off all the bloatware they load) and that the TPT was their business solution. If we partnered with them, we could do what we wanted on a secure platform (then they went on and on about how we really need their solution because you cannot root it, it's secure, blah blah blah).
Anyway, I had to fly out (along with the suits) to the insurance company. I personally meet with their CIO and convinced her that 'Lenovo' could NOT be trusted and if she insisted on using the TPT that we would now have our hands tied to Lenovo. I showed her several other tablets that were just as good and cheaper. She put a pencil to it and realized that she could be the hero here saving the company money. So, she kissed Lenovo good buy and went with another tablet.
Anyway, my story, take with it what you want.
TD
---------- Post added at 05:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------
Let me further add something. A Kindle Fire is a great little tablet, but it is designed specifically to access Amazon. It is an extension of Amazon's business. There are others too. But, the Kindle is the most known.
So, these are NOT really tablets being designed to run everything. They are designed to sell services. For example, the Kindle Fire is to sell and expand Amazon services.
The Lenovo products are the same thing. They are designed to expand Lenovo's services. They want you coming to their Marketplace, using their services. In other words, they want to make money not only off selling the hardware, they want to make money off the software and services.
You can read some articles on the net about company's saying there's no money in hardware sales. This is why HP stopped making tablets and wants to become a software solution provider. This is what Lenovo is trying to do. If they sell you a tablet and make $10 profit it's not the same as $10 plus another $30 for applications you use.
That's what's going on here. It's not that they are evil not wanting you to brick your device, void your warranty, and then you want them to fix it. They are going after the services and they believe that's where the money is. Locking the boatloader is just their attempt to keep you locked into their services.
History lesson: If you believe you should learn from history then if you go back to the late 70's and early 80's, you will see the same thing. If you had bought brand xyz then you had to only buy xyz's printer, if you wanted to print. I remember buying floppy disks just to find out that they weren't compatible. Can you imagine that happening today? You buy a blank thumb drive and discover it doesn't work on your Lenovo, it only works on HP.
What changed all this was MS. So, if you're a believer in history repeating itself then Windows 8 will revolutionize the tablet and phone market. Google has realized the threat and is why they are pushing ICS and trying to stop the fragmentation. However, this does not stop Lenovo locking the bootloader and forcing you to go to their Marketplace. However, under Windows 8 this is going to be harder to do.
TD

I've got a TPT, got it for free from Lenovo, but it doesn't force you to go to Lenovo's market, essentially you can uninstall it and just use the regular market.
That being said, even with the optional external keyboard (that rocks), I mainly use my Samsung Galaxy from work, since I have it rooted and can do what I want with it.
And really not being able to root the TPT is why I'm glad I didn't actually buy it. I definitely wouldn't buy a tablet that I can't root.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

well locked bootloader is a deal breaker. too bad lenovo, you won't get my business. it's a shame, they looked great.

I have the TPT since September now. I have HTC's Sensation as my phone. I have root and a custom rom on my Sensation. So I do know the advantages.
I don't really miss root on my Tablet. Most apps don't need root. One thing that requires root I miss though. Titanium Backup or some other backup-solution. I just don't get why Lenovo does not provide one. Besides Adblock and Titanium Backup I can't think of any other program that requires root, that would provide any real advantage in using my tablet.
It is actualy quite good not too have root and custom ROM's. I'm a kid at heart and I put on new ROMs on my phone like I put on new clothes...
PS: You can lock down the tablet for users with the Mobility Manager. Just google for it.

Awesome post by jimmyDean.
I have a Thinkpad and that post explains alot of how Lenovo is thinking. Its a shame since the Thinkpad can be one great device with its digitizer and stylus if it wasn't so locked down. I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and accept that they won't change their position.
It will be the last Lenovo I will own though that's for sure.
TS

Very good read read. Disheartening, to say the least. I really like my TPT, but my next tablet will be either a transformer prime or the next nice sized tablet to offer an integrated pen solution with Tegra3. I wont swear off Thinkpad notebooks though, my x220 is a BEAST, and I have been using Thinkpads since my parents got me an IBM T61 in college.
But yeah, tablets from Lenovo is out of the question. Its a shame though, I don't think they've realized they've doomed their fate in the consumer tablet market. Sony realized this and righted the ship in 2011 line of devices. One can only hope that Lenovo smells the coffee and wakes up.

I hate to be the dissenter but all of these companies are out to make money and while Lenovo's model (and amazon's, barnes and noble's, apple's, etc, PS3/Xbox/Wii's, etc.) is a bit duplicitous but it isn't out of the norm. I'd love to have a transformer or a xoom with an unlocked bootloader but I've never seen those anywhere near the $250 I picked up the K1 for. I'm not saying I'm going to support that business model but I will use it to my own advantage (ie, pick up the device on the cheap and find a way to do what I want while paying as little as possible). Lenovo will likely have to shift out of this model because there's no reason to use their market instead of the android one and they have nowhere near the sort of exclusive content that the others using this model have.
The Nook Color was a shining exception, both cheap and completely unprotected but B&N corrected that mistake in the Nook Tablet that replaced it.
In the end, we have to decide if we're willing to pay more to leave the walled garden. Given how US consumers have condemned themselves to it in the console gaming and cellular phone markets (both in choosing the iphone and in long contracts for free phones), it's not that clear that they won't choose to give up control in order to pay less upfront.

Wow thanks timmyDean, that clarified a lot of things... I'm going to need a tablet with a decent stylus soon, and I've been looking at TPT for some time now... but root is also very important to me, already because I don't trust Lenovo to bring OTA ICS update for it... I think I'll tough it out with my old tablet PC until something better comes along. HTC flyer is just too small (and with old android).
Anyway, I've been hearing some rumors that Samsung might come up with a stylus solution (S-Pen) in the next Galaxy Tab, perhaps in the MWC 2012 in at the end of february. It's the same tech as in the new Galaxy Note. Hopefully it's also a 12" tablet! It's interesting to note that Sammy's allied with Wacom, while TPT and Flyer use n-trig.

IfIf you ask me. this is the best Android tablet on the market. I took chance and sold my galaxy tab 10.1 and have had nothing but positiv things to say. Love the stylus and once you pick up the MyScript app, this is just perfect! All other tablets feel like toys compared to thrsp

siggehandf said:
IfIf you ask me. this is the best Android tablet on the market. I took chance and sold my galaxy tab 10.1 and have had nothing but positiv things to say. Love the stylus and once you pick up the MyScript app, this is just perfect! All other tablets feel like toys compared to thrsp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't get the thinkpad tablet, but the ideapad K1. For the price I got it at, US$400 for 3G version, it was a good US$150 cheaper than the nearest similarly speced 3G android. For the price, no complaints!
Next up, unlocked bootloader please!

I'm working in Marketing and was looking into tablet devices for eDetailing for our company. I personally compared every Android device that was available in our country: Motorola Xoom, Acer Iconia A500, ASUS Transformer, Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 and also Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet. I was very eager to get my hands on the Thinkpad Tablet, as connectivity (USB host etc) and the digitizer seemed like a huge advantage. But soon, I was very disappointed; in comparison to the other tablets, there are some MAJOR shortcomings:
- software: the firmware is buggy and seems unfinished
- performance: the TPT clearly reacts slower to input than other tablets; this seems to be confirmed in benchmarks
- locked bootkloader: that was the death blow! I don't blame Lenovo that the Citrix Receiver won't accept "untrusted" certificates. However, installing missing certificates is just one of the many things I expect from a decent device; there's plenty of other good reasons you need root access and it was a "must have"
As Lenovo has only delivered minor firmware updates that don't really address the issues mentioned above, I have abandoned the device completely.

Root has just been received and we are just verifying it over in the ThinkpadTablet forums. There should be a instructions for it soon enough. Hang tight.
btw the bounty is now up to $800
TS

With root on the way....
Bootloader also unlocked?
---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------
When Root is enabeled i try to write a script to remove all the bloatware stuff

theoilman said:
lenovo is a great company and their tablets have competitive specs. why do their tablets have such little dev support compared to the other major android tablets?
I ask because the lenovo tablets coming out this year look very nice, but I hesitate to buy a tablet that won't have good dev support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great company? Perhaps in the past. Lenovo support issued a statement, that the tablet does not have a locked bootloader. Once the device was rooted, writing recovery was as simple as having write access to the partition. The locking of nvflash was a **** move however (as the only external interface to the bootloader), and since they would not provide tools to provide the needed functionality, the bootloader was for all intents and purposes locked. Additionally, since IBM sold the thinkpad brand to lenovo, their support response and turnaround is nightmarish. The organization I work for purchased 10 thinkpad tablets for our desktop technicians to use in the field. 6 had the charging/data usb port break within 2 months. I purchased a thinkpad tablet prior to the organizations purchase for personal use, and within 30 days, my port stopped connecting via data. It took numerous phone calls and a few weeks to get lenovo to repair the device under warranty, and then an additional 27 days to actually get the tablet repaired and returned. The tablets for the organization endured similar rigmarole, with only a 2 week difference in repair turnaround. Reports all over the thinkpad and lenovo forums report similar stories. It seems only recently that lenovo has even decided to acknowledge the defective usb port as a manufacturers defect. I don't know what happened to the company, but the shady support statements combine with customer unfriendly technical support has ensured that both my organization and myself will not be doing future business with them.
---------- Post added at 02:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 AM ----------
siggehandf said:
IfIf you ask me. this is the best Android tablet on the market. I took chance and sold my galaxy tab 10.1 and have had nothing but positiv things to say. Love the stylus and once you pick up the MyScript app, this is just perfect! All other tablets feel like toys compared to thrsp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That might be true once custom firmwares start rolling out. As it stands, in the same class, the thinkpad is a hardcore underachiever compared to almost every other tegra 2 tablet on the market. The ntrig digitizer is also the reason I put up with the sluggish buggy behavior. Luckily with root, one can hope these problems can be fixed. However without kernel source, we may be limited to honeycomb in order to keep full hardware functionality. Thats also not to say that a poorly configured kernel or bad drivers aren't part of the reason for the periodic lag, touch issues, and general poor performance.

Can someone clarify on the bootloader/nvflash issue?
Is the bootloader locked or not, and if not, can we now put custom ROMs on it or not?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1231771
From this we can see that ThinkPad Tablet's bootloader ISN'T locked.

Nice. So who will be first to build an ICS ROM?

I'm going to try