Database Users

What is XDA policy here re Scammers who sell XDA hackers' software?

This community is so damn innovative and cooperative, it amazes me what software/ROMS get cooked here which really add a lot of productivity value to me, transforming a tedious, hard-to-read Windows Mobile User Interface into a tool that really works on the go. And I've been equally impressed by the collaborative spirit of this community in problem solving and feature tweeks.
Thus I am curious if there is an organized policy here that helps us end-users deter the scammers who grab software from XDA-developers, bundle it, and sell it across the web. I'm speaking of a prominent spot on the home page and within the information design of these forums that, just like the "Missing Kids" alerts on milk cartons, highlights prominently the latest scammers stealing work here.
I understand this forum is for actual development, but truth is this issue gets lost in "General" forums. Because it's the people who hack here who are the people being hurt directly.
Though I signed onto XDA over a year ago, and have read volumes re my T-mobile MDA and software upgrades here, I ended up being nonetheless too nervous to follow the very clear instructions posted last year with all if the various WM 6 roms developed here. And I never did upgrade.
But I have a WING now, and I wanted an iphone theme and user interface. Again I read all the sticky threads for the Herald, as well as the links from the wiki for that specific phone. After several days of trying to figure out "should I be first flashing my T-mobile ROM to a more efficient one, before then seeking to install one of the iphone themes and apps like A_C's S2U2 etc. I then did a dumb consumer thing: when searching this site using Google, I followed the links to one or two of the GOOGLE AD-WORDS hawking an iPhone theme on your PocketPC.
Long story short, I got scammed of $10 for something that was outdated and didn't even install properly on my WING... But I'd been "comforted" by the presentation on their website, http://iphonethemeforpocketpc.com , thinking I would get my head cleared of the confusion that mounts when I'd dig down deep into the many discussions of so many ROMs & themes & apps here. I got burned, that was bad enough. But it then pissed me off doubly that superior software would be found here at XDA -- and more than likely some of that guy's component cab files were simply stolen from developers right here.
I ended up back here and successfully installed the ifonz theme, A_C's S2U2 (the scam site had an old slide2unlock version... bit as everyone here knows, A_C's app is superb. I also installed Contact Manager (amazing!), PCM keyboard (what an improvement over windows), and MortPlayer (fantastic). I intend to donate to each program author.
But the purpose of this post is this: I filed a dispute with PayPal (requires login) over this scammer's non-working product and absolute refusal to even reply to my early "friendly" emails seeking install help. Went through PayPal's Resolution Center "escalation process" -- after no reply from the seller to PayPal -- and my dispute became a CLAIM for Paypal to determine outcome. PayPal's reply, denying the claim, states that they reviewed all communications and investigated the issue fully (totally not true).
I could have stopped there -- afterall i'd long ago expended way more than $10 worth of my time -- but it was for the principle of it. So I called PayPal, went through all the menu-options, screenings, and hold queues, and finally spoke to an actual Resolution Agent -- who was very nice, & actually very helpful.
However: I learned then, from her, what many of you may already know -- but I wonder DOES everyone know?, because I sure didn't... She told me that anything digital or downloadable is not even covered with any Buyer Protection as disclosed in PayPal's terms of service. So the claim got closed automatically because it didn't qualify for any dispute resolution. I was really surprised by this, that no downloadable software is subject to dispute/resolution policies -- and that's why I am writing this thread, as a service (I *hope*) to all you developers.
I first did a search here on the boards for "scams", because I wanted to find a place on this site to DISPLAY CLEARLY---> Here is a scamsite --> make sure your stuff is not being sold there. That's when I saw this sampling of threads, below, and had to wonder, is there a policy here that is clear and easy to find (NO! not that I can see!) that helps developers here by giving us end-users a place to post the hit-list of scammers on ebay, on iphonetheme websites, etc. ?
If so, I missed it in the information design here. If not, I recommend it. I know it burns you guys who are being ripped off -- but it also ticks off less-sophisticated community members like me (end-users of your hard work) to see your works exploited -- given especially their innovation and performance tweeks.
Here are just a few of the threads I found from this year, from March 08, where people reported being ripped off by people selling their works. In my view, I don't think that's enough or sufficient to just have someone start a thread saying "beware of X, Y or Z". And that's why I posted this. Thanks to all of you who make the lives of end-users more productive with your great work.
q/s
Name And Shame Ebayer Stealing Xdev Material
Bastards selling my Unlocker
Thief On The Loose At Hofo and possibly xda!

wow.. no reply. well i know i'm verbose, but i thought this would at least get a reply that explained yes/no if the site has designated a specific area to broadcast who are the current scammers operating out on he internets...
Should I be posting this into a different forum? if so, which one please/ thanks

As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.

alongenemylines said:
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
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There have been instances where its come to the attention of the community here and the developers of ROMS and programs that their work is being packaged and sold on ebay and the like. Obviously this behavior is viewed very negatively. While there is no policy or "organized" efforts to monitor and react, when someone does point out an instance, the community members rally around and do what they can to call the guy out, and warn potential scammees of it. Ebay is often notified directly, and also comments on the sellers postings on ebay are made to warn.
And yes, your post is verbose

Samsung Staff Engineer contact

Found this in another posting so i thought should put it up incase someone wants to contact samsung.
[email protected] - Madan Ankapura - Samsung Staff Engineer. Goto person for all technical issues related to Android within Samsung and interface for Google in the role of Technical Account Manager-Android.
[email protected] - Yanjun Huang - Smart Phone Product Strategy.

shivankit said:
Found this in another posting so i thought should put it up incase someone wants to contact samsung.
[email protected] - Madan Ankapura - Samsung Staff Engineer. Goto person for all technical issues related to Android within Samsung and interface for Google in the role of Technical Account Manager-Android.
[email protected] - Yanjun Huang - Smart Phone Product Strategy.
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Nice information.
Rather than flooding their mail boxes, why don't we write a formal open-letter in the name of XDA developers Community exposing our findings and suggestions?
Any volunteer? (my english is not so good)
Please note that I'd not approve a letter that is based on insults or describes this product as "rubbish"... I'd prefer they understand that we may have a win-win cooperation in order to make this (and others) product better. So if we're going to expose some problems we'll need to document every problem in a technical way.

Already a thread about this in General:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=791130

I have my doubts if one letter on behalf of xda will do the job and make them sit up and notice, maybe a Zerg rush would work better???

Why not try both

Poor guys...

Well maybe poor guys... nonetheless their emails were easily found and in the public domain, and they are listed on Linkedin, so fair game in my opinion
The emails were in that Samsung "do not download internal testing" app on Market, unpacked it and looked through the code - THATS PUBLIC DOMAIN! lol...

the professional way to handle this is via Facebook, as already mentioned on the other topic
it works, and we already got results
so lets do it again

+1 to Facebook.. its kinda public so theres bigger chance ull get some results..! instead of personal emails..

shivankit said:
I have my doubts if one letter on behalf of xda will do the job and make them sit up and notice, maybe a Zerg rush would work better???
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LOL!
+1 for Zerg rush.

What would be the effect of flooding?
They are pissed, delete the mails and remove the e-mail adresses.
Do you want this?
Much better effect can be obtained by an open letter, at best in cooperation with other well known (regional) forums and a message to some news sites.

use this instead
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792205

Samga said:
What would be the effect of flooding?
They are pissed, delete the mails and remove the e-mail adresses.
Do you want this?
Much better effect can be obtained by an open letter, at best in cooperation with other well known (regional) forums and a message to some news sites.
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Well, I disagree. POLITE emails directly to people involved is better than indirectly through FB imho. But why not use both methods as someone suggested?

I agree. What we need is a well written coordinated letter to the samsung staff, which would represent members of this and/or other forums and websites and thus, many galaxy s customers....

Off-site Roms and XDA support threads

This has become a stickler point for me.
How exactly do these "roms" that post on xda to gain the large audience with links to thier own sites with thier own forums and downloads do it?
Why does XDA allow the threads to exist?
To me it's a confusing point, on one hand you've got the huge user base that XDA has and it's "helpful" but on the other hand these "roms" have chosen to move else where to have a clear cut definition of "who" their users are.
I for one would love to see xda delete these threads, if your rom isnt hosted here why should XDA pick up the tab on the traffic and moderation to "support" the people that don't want to follow basic rules.
It's one thing to post on here saying that it's out it's quite another to have a thread devoted to the rom for "support" when they've got their own site and thier own "donation" setup and don't offer direct links to the roms.
I'm thinking of Bonsai and Baked Snack when I say this, although other sites like ppcgeeks are guilty of it as well.
Here's the breakdown...
Baked snack was a rom a while back that Herver ran, he had people that loved his roms, but he wouldnt share his gpl code, so XDA to avoid issues banned him and removes his threads.
Bonsai started up thier own "business oriented and non-hobby"(randy's words) website and started offering up betas to people that donated, BANNING people that would share this beta software if they found out.(or so his users have said)
PPCGeeks.com basically is a forum that has very little of it's own content and tends to backlink to threads here on XDA. This should not be allowed. it's cheap and annoying to think that other forums all link back to xda but refuse to use and follow it's rules touting it as the devil for thier moderators sucking and other offhanded badness, while at the same time using it's resources for thier own gain.
If you want to follow the XDA rules on rom posting fine. Post here. If you want to have your own site to support the rom fine have the site, but if you get removed from the site for not following the rules, do NOT expect to keep using it to support your users.
The rules of posting should be simple.
If you post a rom in a thread there should NOT be an external sign up on said site to get the rom.
If you post a rom, there should NOT be a pay to play system in place to get "advanced" copies,(nor a "shopping cart" for the rom)
If you post a rom, there SHOULD be a direct link or mirror link to the rom.
If you post a rom, there should be open disclosure and read-only sources to what you've done.
In essence i for one WANT to see all support threads for non-hosted on XDA roms removed, they put a burden on XDA to moderate, the put a burden on XDA for bandwidth and hardware, and they cause undue traffic to those that don't want to play by the rules they signed up for.
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Analogy time:
Think of it like this... You've spent a lot of time and money to make a large car lot, you allow others of the community who've used your car lot to gather and sell their own cars on your lot free of charge. It all runs fine until along comes one person that feels they should be allowed to use the facilities of the lot for only themselves and break ruin the good bathroom, now they setup thier own bathroom close to thier table but only people that come to thier table and purchase a car may use this bathroom. After a little while you find that they have opened up their own car lot across the street. You ask them to take their cars elsewhere, and remove them from your lot. BUT they setup a table on your lot and take up valuable real-estate to "answer questions" about their car lot across the street AND about their cars. while using your facilities and security etc. Would you do that in normal circumstances? or would you remove their table as well and let them use their own car lot as a support and sales team for their own cars?
Anyways, thats my take on the whole off-site roms but XDA support.
Add thanks to this if you support this idea, OR post away and add something new to the conversation, *I* personally think that XDA should take a hand in removing these threads from here as they are a detriment to the community that exists and undermines the ideals attached to opensource projects.

I definitely agree with Art3mis on this one. Its ridiculous that they are still allowed to have support threads (and more that they even have support threads instead of just having them all on their own private forums as they either, didnt follow the rules of XDA, or left at their own accord).

Yeah it annoys me that bonsai still has support threads here.

you are right and i agree 100% with everything except this:
art3mis-nyc said:
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
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hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth. i personally like hosting my own files and giving direct links in threads because i can look at awstats and know how many times a file has been hit.
on that same note i agree there should be a direct link...and i mean a real direct link....not a redirect to sign up or a redirect to an ad page or anything like that...the rest of your article i agree 100%

Then don't click on the thread?? Is it really that hard?

art3mis-nyc said:
This has become a stickler point for me......(other stuff)
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Get off your high horse. You are no dev (not even cut and paste) and no mod.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

XDA doesn't allow software that breaks the rules or off-site competition, but they allow discussion of said software. Kind of counter-intuitive, really.
Rodderik said:
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth.
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I think he means other websites hotlinking to XDA.

All the Bonsai support threads are gone, and have been for a long while. The only thing left is the user discussion thread in the General section. It's for news and users helping other users. Everyone knows where to go for dev support when it comes to Bonsai.
But there are a couple reasons why the thread exists. First off, it doesn't break any XDA rules. They would have to break their own rules or create new ones to get rid of it. The other reason is XDA does not want to remove it. Anything that is considered controversial gets hits. The more hits, the better for advertising revenue . Every time someone tries to start a Bonsai hate thread of *****es about why it exists, people come along and either argue or agree with the OP. XDA does not care one way or the other, they get paid the same.
As Randy stated here-
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15035075&postcount=1026
He has made every attempt to work things out, but it has been a one way process.

Deleted. Counter productive.
Sent from me!

tl;dr
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I think this whole thing is kind of silly. The analygy given by the OP isn't even close. In xda, no physical damage was done and nothing illegal was done. You might as well been comparing a frog to a cow .
I am a huge proponent of open source, but as a business owner, I know that time is very important and good developers should be paid.
In other open source industries (I will use Drupal.org as my example), commercial and opensource get along just fine. There are many commercial companies (acquia.com) that's entire business is providing service and support for the open source products they use and promote. The commercial companies have made the open source community way stronger in these last few years. Another example would be Linux, Canonical the business backing Ubuntu.
Those industries have standards too and don't allow any non-GPL (back to the Drupal example) code to be committed in there repository. They still allow commercial companies with closed source to participate.
The "groups" (bonsai, etc...) that are talked about here are still contributing to the the community. They may not be doing it according to xda's rules, but that doesn't mean they aren't contributing.
I understand xda's motives for disallowing closed source stuff in the forums. But banning everyones ability to talk about sites outside of the forum is ridiculous. Thats like saying "we encourage and love open source" but "we hate open (source) communication".
Lastly, why you throwing PPCGeeks under the bus. Before my epic I owned 3 winmo phones. I could find way more CDMA winmo roms on PPCgeeks than I ever found on xda. Fixes were rolled out fast and the winmo community on ppcgeeks was very strong.

Rodderik said:
you are right and i agree 100% with everything except this:
hotlinking from other sites is how all the roms are posted whether it be private domains or sites like multiupload. there is an 8meg limit on xda attachments...so big 100+ meg rom downloads have to be linked from somewhere else to save xda's bandwidth. i personally like hosting my own files and giving direct links in threads because i can look at awstats and know how many times a file has been hit.
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This is more in relation to say i started a "forum" for Superawesomeroms.com and then i have nothing to post so all i do is post links to XDA threads all the while bemoaning and berating XDA for thier crap moderation and blah blah blah blah

Well, I for one post my content here, ppcgeeks, and ACS. Obviously most of the traffic I get is here.
What I can say is that other sites linking to xda is how I found this site. I was on ppcgeeks a few months before xda, and found xda through a link off their site. I also link back to xda quite often when I'm trying to help other on another site. What that shows me is that other sites linking back to xda drives traffic here.
Traffic=revenue. Guess I don't see the problem with that.

art3mis-nyc said:
This has become a stickler point for me.
How exactly do these "roms" that post on xda to gain the large audience with links to thier own sites with thier own forums and downloads do it?
Why does XDA allow the threads to exist?
To me it's a confusing point, on one hand you've got the huge user base that XDA has and it's "helpful" but on the other hand these "roms" have chosen to move else where to have a clear cut definition of "who" their users are.
I for one would love to see xda delete these threads, if your rom isnt hosted here why should XDA pick up the tab on the traffic and moderation to "support" the people that don't want to follow basic rules.
It's one thing to post on here saying that it's out it's quite another to have a thread devoted to the rom for "support" when they've got their own site and thier own "donation" setup and don't offer direct links to the roms.
I'm thinking of Bonsai and Baked Snack when I say this, although other sites like ppcgeeks are guilty of it as well.
Here's the breakdown...
Baked snack was a rom a while back that Herver ran, he had people that loved his roms, but he wouldnt share his gpl code, so XDA to avoid issues banned him and removes his threads.
Bonsai started up thier own "business oriented and non-hobby"(randy's words) website and started offering up betas to people that donated, BANNING people that would share this beta software if they found out.(or so his users have said)
PPCGeeks.com basically is a forum that has very little of it's own content and tends to backlink to threads here on XDA. This should not be allowed. it's cheap and annoying to think that other forums all link back to xda but refuse to use and follow it's rules touting it as the devil for thier moderators sucking and other offhanded badness, while at the same time using it's resources for thier own gain.
If you want to follow the XDA rules on rom posting fine. Post here. If you want to have your own site to support the rom fine have the site, but if you get removed from the site for not following the rules, do NOT expect to keep using it to support your users.
The rules of posting should be simple.
If you post a rom in a thread there should NOT be an external sign up on said site to get the rom.
If you post a rom, there should NOT be a pay to play system in place to get "advanced" copies,(nor a "shopping cart" for the rom)
If you post a rom, there SHOULD be a direct link or mirror link to the rom.
If you post a rom, there should be open disclosure and read-only sources to what you've done.
In essence i for one WANT to see all support threads for non-hosted on XDA roms removed, they put a burden on XDA to moderate, the put a burden on XDA for bandwidth and hardware, and they cause undue traffic to those that don't want to play by the rules they signed up for.
Side note, i'd love to see hotlinking from other sites also disabled on XDA to stop those crap spring up offshoot websites thinking they're better and "more laid back" from not having to bother with their own content and users.
Analogy time:
Think of it like this... You've spent a lot of time and money to make a large car lot, you allow others of the community who've used your car lot to gather and sell their own cars on your lot free of charge. It all runs fine until along comes one person that feels they should be allowed to use the facilities of the lot for only themselves and break ruin the good bathroom, now they setup thier own bathroom close to thier table but only people that come to thier table and purchase a car may use this bathroom. After a little while you find that they have opened up their own car lot across the street. You ask them to take their cars elsewhere, and remove them from your lot. BUT they setup a table on your lot and take up valuable real-estate to "answer questions" about their car lot across the street AND about their cars. while using your facilities and security etc. Would you do that in normal circumstances? or would you remove their table as well and let them use their own car lot as a support and sales team for their own cars?
Anyways, thats my take on the whole off-site roms but XDA support.
Add thanks to this if you support this idea, OR post away and add something new to the conversation, *I* personally think that XDA should take a hand in removing these threads from here as they are a detriment to the community that exists and undermines the ideals attached to opensource projects.
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As long as your calling everyone else out. Mentioning a competitive site, I do believe, is against the rules.
Guys, these are just phones and at this point why even bring this up? I'm not suggesting that the rules be ignored but everyone constantly getting bent out of shape over this stuff isn't productive or even healthy for that matter.
PLEASE, just let the Bonsai thing just die already. They made their choice and no matter how many people complain about it, is't going to change anything. All it does is start flame wars. If you have something to say to them I suggest you contact them directly and give them a chance to address the concerns directly.
Why can't we do something.......anything...but complain. Does anyone stop to think that Bonsai leaving for setting up their site the way they did has little to nothing to do with the direction the Epic forums are going in? It's bad attitudes and feelings of entitlement that are KILLING this forum, IMHO. Stop complaining and contribute to positive change. If we focus on the negative all the time that's all we are going to get.

If any threads should be deleted it is ones talking about other phones. There are forums for those. This is the Samsung Epic forum, that is the phone I have chosen for 2 years and only want to see threads about those. If an accessory or ROM is avaliable off XA for it, I want to know about it. I don't give a crap about the EVO 3d or Within or any otherstupid little phone that comes out. XDA has a general forum for that and most of these have their own forums. Don't clutter our threads with that garbage, or whiny kids saying "it's official our phone is a piece of crap"! This is the clutter that needs to be removed. Not a single thread for an offsite ROM.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

icevapor said:
I think this whole thing is kind of silly. The analygy given by the OP isn't even close. In xda, no physical damage was done and nothing illegal was done. You might as well been comparing a frog to a cow .
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Not really it's a valid argument, and while you dont see it, BW useage etc is a hit when it supports items that arent on the site itself.
icevapor said:
I am a huge proponent of open source, but as a business owner, I know that time is very important and good developers should be paid.
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Some very fine work perhaps the best work as far as the epic goes, is from people that do it for fun and hobby, and dont ask for donations and in some cases dont even have a link for it, yet others believe as you do apperantly that they should be able to take the others work, rename it and change it and "sell" it(ie the Bonsai clockworkmod that they simply renamed and recoloured) as noted i'm fine with charging for support, it's the software i dont like the charging to exist for.
icevapor said:
In other open source industries (I will use Drupal.org as my example), commercial and opensource get along just fine. There are many commercial companies (acquia.com) that's entire business is providing service and support for the open source products they use and promote. The commercial companies have made the open source community way stronger in these last few years. Another example would be Linux, Canonical the business backing Ubuntu.
Those industries have standards too and don't allow any non-GPL (back to the Drupal example) code to be committed in there repository. They still allow commercial companies with closed source to participate.
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The difference between that and this is that the Opensource lives along side, doesnt require a signup and in most cases is "on par" with the pay version, again you're paying for support, which im fine with, but the software is available to all or none, not to who pays.(minus some features of course but rarely advanced beta copies etc)
icevapor said:
The "groups" (bonsai, etc...) that are talked about here are still contributing to the the community. They may not be doing it according to xda's rules, but that doesn't mean they aren't contributing.
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I can't think of a single thing that has been contributed back, aside from the kernel fiasco for marcusants "psuedo rom"
icevapor said:
Lastly, why you throwing PPCGeeks under the bus. Before my epic I owned 3 winmo phones. I could find way more CDMA winmo roms on PPCgeeks than I ever found on xda. Fixes were rolled out fast and the winmo community on ppcgeeks was very strong.
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ppcgeeks was the first site that i noticed it on and while it's not directed specifically at them, they are guilty of the above mentioned content links.

i'm not scared of negativity
and you shouldn't be either
if discussing negativity means thats all you will end up with
then ask yourself who is the real source of negativity?
deciding your fate...premonitions?
let it roll
if you never go there...you will never get it out of your system
and i'm sure thats why anyone would participate in this thread to begin with
so do it, and dig deep
just try and be as respectful as possible in your aims
dont cloud this life with misconstrued karma
if you cannot understand someones apparent stance and it appears ignorant or childish,
then try and be the bigger person and post something constructive they can actually do
otherwise you are just bickering for the sake of it
before i get too far off topic
if xda's main goal is truly web traffic...then thats what the userbase is going to comprise of...otherwise you are just out of place and belong elsewhere.
if you are just part of traffic then dont claim to be a leader with every post you make
and vise versa...dont get lost in the traffic when you know damn well you have something to offer the community that is truly valuable. Everyone has a part to play, dont care how many babies are born today.
If in fact this is truly xda's goal...who knows...the site is large...plenty of room for emotion to find its way in.
Life is useful. (dental dams are your friend)
And above all...hitler was nothing compared to billions the russians killed of their own people...
History...it owns people every day.
Stand for something better than the illegitimate use/abuse of people.
Especially when most of these things being created are not very reliable and designed to support jobs and sales and an economy and false hopes and everything that goes along with a society that throws its lives to the foothold of a dollar bill that is utterly useless in the reality of the universe.
Real answers are not easy...take the time as much as you possibly can.
LISTEN
and when you think you cannot take anymore without putting in your two cents
LISTEN SOME MORE
there are plenty of people just hanging around that have been through it all and seen it
and you can stop acting anytime like you are one of them
real life steps in before anyone could ever make a worthwhile decision
humans...making decisions for others since breakfast
tough titties?
we'll see who's talking then...when?
the sooner the sooner

mattallica76 said:
The only thing [Bonsai] left is the user discussion thread in the General section. It's for news and users helping other users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't say whether this is ideal or not. However, folks are going to ask about Bonsai whether discussion is allowed or not. Thus, it's arguably prudent to allow one thread for its discussion to avoid having it being asked about repeatedly in new threads.
shane6374 said:
What I can say is that other sites linking to xda is how I found this site.
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Click to collapse
This is perhaps the most important point of the thread. However it happened, xda became the definitive resource for phone hackery. If xda were to forbid off-site hotlinking, that would have the result, both direct (PageRank, robots exclusion, etc.) and indirect (through absence of news articles and other discussion) of sinking it in search results. At which point--at best--some other site would become definitive and discussion would move there, or quite possibly, no one site would emerge as definitive and discussion would become horribly fragmented.
To be honest, the primary reason I post patches here with lengthy technical descriptions is becuase, in 3-6 months time, I know someone Googling a similar problem will come across my threads and find an answer. The fact that it also contributes code to this community is a wonderful secondary benefit, but to be honest, discussion and ROM development is too ephemeral to make it worth the effort if Google wasn't around to archive the result. And it's far easier for me to do it here, and gets far more exposure and use, than if I were to run my own blog or something.

ptfdmedic said:
As long as your calling everyone else out. Mentioning a competitive site, I do believe, is against the rules.
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Click to collapse
yeah yeah, pedantic argument.
ptfdmedic said:
Guys, these are just phones and at this point why even bring this up? I'm not suggesting that the rules be ignored but everyone constantly getting bent out of shape over this stuff isn't productive or even healthy for that matter.
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Click to collapse
oh im not bent out of shape, that post would have been a lot more incoherent if i was.
ptfdmedic said:
PLEASE, just let the Bonsai thing just die already. They made their choice and no matter how many people complain about it, is't going to change anything. All it does is start flame wars. If you have something to say to them I suggest you contact them directly and give them a chance to address the concerns directly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's called an example. Happens to be the most obvious so it's used.
btw i did contact them directly and thats how i came to the quote from randy stating that Bonsai is not a hobby it's a business.
and then the tired out saying of "i for one like to pay for good software rant" while touting the virtues of opensource.(<3 me some hypocrites)
ptfdmedic said:
Why can't we do something.......anything...but complain. Does anyone stop to think that Bonsai leaving for setting up their site the way they did has little to nothing to do with the direction the Epic forums are going in? It's bad attitudes and feelings of entitlement that are KILLING this forum, IMHO. Stop complaining and contribute to positive change. If we focus on the negative all the time that's all we are going to get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this isn't negative unless you read it that way, i honestly want it to change, and to find out WHY it exists.
People commenting and saying we should "all get along" sadly contribute nothing(good nor bad) to a thread.

mkasick said:
I can't say whether this is ideal or not. However, folks are going to ask about Bonsai whether discussion is allowed or not. Thus, it's arguably prudent to allow one thread for its discussion to avoid having it being asked about repeatedly in new threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would think so, but the same can't be said towards heros' rom, many threads are started to talk about it are quickly killed and its poster banned.. so it's sort of a double edged.

I'm concern about one's safety on this site!

I contacted the moderator:
I have the strangest suspicion that this member, kp263 was trying a scam on me. I posted a message regarding help to fix my bricked LG D858HK, and kp263 contacted me by private messaging requesting. After I sent my number, I received a message, saying; I'm always offline on WhatsApp. I responded; I normally turn my phone off 12.00 am to 8.00 am UK time because I don't want to be disturb at those times when sleeping, but I'm available all the other times. I also mentioned; I'm using another phone, as the LG is bricked (of course). I started to get suspicious and asked; how are you going to repair phone in the UK when you're in India? But, I didn't get a reply, so I contact him again. So he informed me that was away for a few days.
Could this member have been leading me on to a scam? Check this member out - could be dangerous...! But Moderator doesn't seem to be concerned...
Moderator's comments: Cannot act on speculation. Add member to your ignore list and seek reputable verified help in the future.
My response to moderator:
Speculation!? As a moderator, you don't seem to be concerned regarding the safety of users on your site! This dude wanted to gain access and control my PC and could have stolen information via a piece of software he wanted me to install, and you're not concern about that!? Or, could it be that he may be connected with you/your site?
The problem is with my phone, so why did he wanted to access my PC? Why didn't he send me the instruction by private message (like I asked him to), or better yet, publicly, so that others can see, who may be experiencing same or similar problems, so they can refer it his cure? Why didn't he respond to several questions...I'd put to him regarding my concern of him accessing my PC?
If you're not going to check him out, I'll have to make this public so that others can be aware of this

Soundboy said:
I contacted the moderator:
I have the strangest suspicion that this member, kp263 was trying a scam on me. I posted a message regarding help to fix my bricked LG D858HK, and kp263 contacted me by private messaging requesting. After I sent my number, I received a message, saying; I'm always offline on WhatsApp. I responded; I normally turn my phone off 12.00 am to 8.00 am UK time because I don't want to be disturb at those times when sleeping, but I'm available all the other times. I also mentioned; I'm using another phone, as the LG is bricked (of course). I started to get suspicious and asked; how are you going to repair phone in the UK when you're in India? But, I didn't get a reply, so I contact him again. So he informed me that was away for a few days.
Could this member have been leading me on to a scam? Check this member out - could be dangerous...! But Moderator doesn't seem to be concerned...
Moderator's comments: Cannot act on speculation. Add member to your ignore list and seek reputable verified help in the future.
My response to moderator:
Speculation!? As a moderator, you don't seem to be concerned regarding the safety of users on your site! This dude wanted to gain access and control my PC and could have stolen information via a piece of software he wanted me to install, and you're not concern about that!? Or, could it be that he may be connected with you/your site?
The problem is with my phone, so why did he wanted to access my PC? Why didn't he send me the instruction by private message (like I asked him to), or better yet, publicly, so that others can see, who may be experiencing same or similar problems, so they can refer it his cure? Why didn't he respond to several questions...I'd put to him regarding my concern of him accessing my PC?
If you're not going to check him out, I'll have to make this public so that others can be aware of this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you should never give out your number and install software you don't know what it does.
Use common sense, you made a mistake to give out your number and if you installed software you don't know what it does nobody else to blame but yourself.
Sorry to sound harsh but you need to be careful what you do as well and protect yourself

DJ_MiX said:
you should never give out your number and install software you don't know what it does.
Use common sense, you made a mistake to give out your number and if you installed software you don't know what it does nobody else to blame but yourself.
Sorry to sound harsh but you need to be careful what you do as well and protect yourself
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure there are novices that use this site that doesn't know the risks... But, I'm not a novice as far as the internet is concerned. I know the dangers and this why I didn't download the software and questioned the dude.
So I'm in a jam with my phone and asked for some genuine help and was hoping I would get it in return, at least so I thought. These scammers should look into by the moderator/s and not ignored but rooted out; because not everyone would be aware of this sort of practice on xda, and is not a matter of common sense. Are you saying you've never given a stranger your mobile number? I sure you have. So where is your common sense that? :silly:

Soundboy said:
I contacted the moderator:
I have the strangest suspicion that this member, kp263 was trying a scam on me. I posted a message regarding help to fix my bricked LG D858HK, and kp263 contacted me by private messaging requesting. After I sent my number, I received a message, saying; I'm always offline on WhatsApp. I responded; I normally turn my phone off 12.00 am to 8.00 am UK time because I don't want to be disturb at those times when sleeping, but I'm available all the other times. I also mentioned; I'm using another phone, as the LG is bricked (of course). I started to get suspicious and asked; how are you going to repair phone in the UK when you're in India? But, I didn't get a reply, so I contact him again. So he informed me that was away for a few days.
Could this member have been leading me on to a scam? Check this member out - could be dangerous...! But Moderator doesn't seem to be concerned...
Moderator's comments: Cannot act on speculation. Add member to your ignore list and seek reputable verified help in the future.
My response to moderator:
Speculation!? As a moderator, you don't seem to be concerned regarding the safety of users on your site! This dude wanted to gain access and control my PC and could have stolen information via a piece of software he wanted me to install, and you're not concern about that!? Or, could it be that he may be connected with you/your site?
The problem is with my phone, so why did he wanted to access my PC? Why didn't he send me the instruction by private message (like I asked him to), or better yet, publicly, so that others can see, who may be experiencing same or similar problems, so they can refer it his cure? Why didn't he respond to several questions...I'd put to him regarding my concern of him accessing my PC?
If you're not going to check him out, I'll have to make this public so that others can be aware of this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you mean this user https://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=7532374 ?
Do you have any idea how many accusations are made similar to this on this site of almost 8 million users? So YES we need proof of wrong doing. The message you reported was a simple Whatsapp request. No where did he ask for access to your computer. He did suggest he could fix your problem with Teamviewer. Generally these members are not scammers but are trying to sell you their repair service. When we have proof of attempted sales, then the accounts are removed.
Thank you for bringing this member to our attention and adding to our investigation already in progress.
Have a nice day.

KennyG123 said:
Do you mean this user https://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=7532374 ?
Do you have any idea how many accusations are made similar to this on this site of almost 8 million users? So YES we need proof of wrong doing. The message you reported was a simple Whatsapp request. No where did he ask for access to your computer. He did suggest he could fix your problem with Teamviewer. Generally these members are not scammers but are trying to sell you their repair service. When we have proof of attempted sales, then the accounts are removed.
Thank you for bringing this member to our attention and adding to our investigation already in progress.
Have a nice day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This dude was shady... If I wasn't alert and aware of these type of scams and fraud, I would have let him have his wicked way and could have scammed me. I not gonna deal with someone in India when am in the UK and especially the way he wanted me too. No way!
As a good and responsible citizen and trying to help to stomp out scamming and fraud, my original message to you was to make you aware of the situation..., but your replied was sarcastically... When I get scamming emails and forward them on to the banks, etc, they thank me for informing them - unlike you. Your statement above (Thank you for bringing this member...) would have been just nice in the first place. There is another guy on your team (who was very nice - not sarcastic) that I sent the message to in the first place but he instructed me to contact the moderator because he didn't deal with that area. So, it seems that there are nice guys amongst you all.

Soundboy said:
This dude was shady... If I wasn't alert and aware of these type of scams and fraud, I would have let him have his wicked way and could have scammed me. I not gonna deal with someone in India when am in the UK and especially the way he wanted me too. No way!
As a good and responsible citizen and trying to help to stomp out scamming and fraud, my original message to you was to make you aware of the situation..., but your replied was sarcastically... When I get scamming emails and forward them on to the banks, etc, they thank me for informing them - unlike you. Your statement above (Thank you for bringing this member...) would have been just nice in the first place. There is another guy on your team (who was very nice - not sarcastic) that I sent the message to in the first place but he instructed me to contact the moderator because he didn't deal with that area. So, it seems that there are nice guys amongst you all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure...but as I said...they generally try to sell you a service under the radar of XDA moderators because selling of anything on this site is not allowed except in the paid app section. That is the shady part. We remove these types daily once we get evidence of them asking for money. The repair is usually legitimate. Thanks for adding to our evidence against this member.
So others thank you and do nothing, but I tell you we need evidence and then do something...which would you prefer. By the way I am still awaiting an answer to that PM.

@Soundboy There are many legitimate people out there that will help people through teamviewer out of the kindness of their heart. So next time present more evidence than a Whatsapp request and offer to go on teamviewer. Back in the Epic 4G days of 2011 I helped someone through it and know of another good friend that helped members through teamviewer all day long and only for whatever they wanted to donate to him, even if it was nothing. So your paranoia was insufficient to act on without evidence.

I 100% agree with @DJ_MiX . I can't believe I have to say this, but, this world is full of nefarious people out to do you harm. If you expect any website to be able to protect you from every single user, you are in for a shock. Welcome to the internet. :highfive:
Receiving a private message instead of answering your question publicly in the forums should have been a large red flag and warning sirens for you. That's like getting cold called at your house and the person asking for financial information.
These forums are not for one-on-one help. They are for public questions, answers, and discussions so that everyone benefits. I personally would only use private messaging with users who have a long history on the forums. And even then, there's rarely a reason to do so.
You seem nice and you seem like you mean well, just be vigilant and do your due diligence whenever possible. Evil folks prey on the naive. I will personally not be able to help you out with your particular issue, but good luck!

Paranoia
KennyG123 said:
@Soundboy There are many legitimate people out there that will help people through teamviewer out of the kindness of their heart. So next time present more evidence than a Whatsapp request and offer to go on teamviewer. Back in the Epic 4G days of 2011 I helped someone through it and know of another good friend that helped members through teamviewer all day long and only for whatever they wanted to donate to him, even if it was nothing. So your paranoia was insufficient to act on without evidence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe paranoia... But you haven't seen my messages I sent to him via Whatsapp, asking for his legitimacy... But of no surprise, he didn't respond to them.

AlwaysLucky said:
I 100% agree with @DJ_MiX . I can't believe I have to say this, but, this world is full of nefarious people out to do you harm. If you expect any website to be able to protect you from every single user, you are in for a shock. Welcome to the internet. :highfive:
Receiving a private message instead of answering your question publicly in the forums should have been a large red flag and warning sirens for you. That's like getting cold called at your house and the person asking for financial information.
These forums are not for one-on-one help. They are for public questions, answers, and discussions so that everyone benefits. I personally would only use private messaging with users who have a long history on the forums. And even then, there's rarely a reason to do so.
You seem nice and you seem like you mean well, just be vigilant and do your due diligence whenever possible. Evil folks prey on the naive. I will personally not be able to help you out with your particular issue, but good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm always aware and suspicious about private messages, emails, letters and phone calls I get from people I don't know offering their services, e.g. like paying upfront. I always tell them to take a hike! I get them all the time; even from these pretty-young-nice-figure-babes on facebook. It's like; "You're a gorgeous babe; but why you want to friend an old fart like me, old enough to be your granddad or even your great grandad?" They're gone, man! So yes; I'm an internet savvy and on the money! :highfive:
My initial message was only to make you guys aware... I do it all the time; forwarding suspicious contacts to Banks, PayPal, Facebook and Action Fraud. I'm only just trying to make the world a bit safer

Respond to your PM
KennyG123 said:
Sure...but as I said...they generally try to sell you a service under the radar of XDA moderators because selling of anything on this site is not allowed except in the paid app section. That is the shady part. We remove these types daily once we get evidence of them asking for money. The repair is usually legitimate. Thanks for adding to our evidence against this member.
So others thank you and do nothing, but I tell you we need evidence and then do something...which would you prefer. By the way I am still awaiting an answer to that PM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regarding your PM... I've already responded to it yesterday via reply to the email. But since it seems you haven't received it, here it is again: I did google Teamviewer...and that is why I didn't download it to my PC. And yes, I do get lots of Prince in Nigeria..., etc, etc and phone calls too but I don't fall for them. So no, not foolish. I'm not new to the internet but on your site. In fact, I'm a savvy on the internet and know of the dangers.
The account countfox: because when I first join I made a spelling mistake with my username and after about 4 times of asking Brendon to edited he failed to deal with it, so I set up another account. But it was changed by another person in the end after I contacted him. So, I kept on using Soundboy because my message was already on it. If there was a way for me to edit or delete them myself I would have done so instead of relying on you guys. Anyway, you can delete both of them because they no use to me now.
Cheers!

Calling LOS ANGELES Android/Samsung Users

Hey folks,
Long time user (and prior to that, long time lurker) on these forums - but today, I'm posting with a random, unusual request.
I'm trying to find Android fans in Los Angeles who may be available to help me with a little TV filming this coming Monday (26th June).
Long story short - my day job is as a TV reporter in Los Angeles.. I work for a global news channel called CGTN America (we broadcast out of Washington DC, Beijing and Nairobi to around about 1.2 billion homes worldwide.. including in the US on cable and satellite, though most of our viewers tend to come internationally)..
Since I'm a huge tech-head, I'm filming a story to go out later this week on ten years of the iPhone. But I want to make it different. What often happens with these stories is some networks get reporters who know nothing about technology to do them, and you end up with something that is just saying 'the iPhone is the most amazing device ever invented.'
Regardless of what side of the fence you sit on, it is an amazing device. And it did have a revolutionary impact. But there is so much to the story other than that.
One of the angles I really want to explore is the battle between iOS and Android. The way that the iPhone almost set the lines for a war. You see it on forums like this and XDA and Apple-related forums - people trying to outdo each other.. and people getting really irate as they nail their colors to the mast of their OS of choice.
I wondered if there may be some Android fans in the LA area who I could meet up with on Monday, if we can arrange a convenient time and we film a little sequence (details of which, I'm still to work out in my head) but talking about the iOS vs Android wars. This may be just Android users or it may an Android user and an iPhone user both debating what's best about their relevant OS.
It's still a germ of an idea. But I wanted to throw it out there and hope it gets seen over the weekend.
I'm gonna post this over on Android Central as well to try to maximize the number of people who see it and also on the General Android Chat Forum here. The reason for the double post is that in my experience, the real ire is often between Samsung and Apple fans (reflecting the companies, almost) and so there may be people in that board that this really appeals to..
Anyway, please do reply to me on here, or via DM, or via twitter @phillavelle.
Thanks for looking and have a great day!
Phil

Hi Phil,
I’d be happy to offer some of my time to you forthis endeavor. I’ve lurked on these forums since long before iOS or Android even existed. If you are indeed serious about this I can provide you with my full name which you can then quickly google to see my credentials.
I can play either side of the discussion as I have been a mobile technology consultant for about two decades and have owned (and still own and use both iOS and Android) devices from all major manufacturers.
- Luca

atomic.flip said:
Hi Phil,
I’d be happy to offer some of my time to you forthis endeavor. I’ve lurked on these forums since long before iOS or Android even existed. If you are indeed serious about this I can provide you with my full name which you can then quickly google to see my credentials.
I can play either side of the discussion as I have been a mobile technology consultant for about two decades and have owned (and still own and use both iOS and Android) devices from all major manufacturers.
- Luca
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello Luca, yes please, that would be great..

Thread closed.
This is a duplicate of this one below you already posted in General discussion > Off-topic:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/ge...droid-fans-t3626634/post72789901#post72789901
So, please continue the discussion in the above linked thread.
This is not allowed to post twice (or more) the same message on XDA by forum rule #5:
5. Create a thread or post a message only once.
As a large forum, we don't need unnecessary clutter. You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer, revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time so it might take a while before you receive an answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Full list of the rules here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
Thank you for your understanding.
Regards,
Wood Man
Forum Moderator