Hello everyone,
My Moto X Pure edition is on the way on the mail. I'm already excited to root it and get twrp on it. However, I believe the phone will come with android lollipop installed, and I should get an option for an OTA update for android 6.0.
My question is: Should I root my phone and install twrp BEFORE receiving the update, or after? I plan to use WinDroid Toolkit to root my phone and install twrp (seems to be the easiest way) so have any of you done it while having 6.0 already installed?
Your phone will most likely arrive with 6.0 pre-installed on it. You can't take an OTA with TWRP installed. I can't answer the WinDroid question.
Edit: It will most likely come with 6.0 already assuming you purchased it from Motorola.
quakeaz said:
Your phone will most likely arrive with 6.0 pre-installed on it. You can't take an OTA with TWRP installed. I can't answer the WinDroid question.
Edit: It will most likely come with 6.0 already assuming you purchased it from Motorola.
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Thanks a lot for your help! It's good that the phone will most likely come with MM. Does Motorola also offer an OTA update to 6.0.1?
I wanted to flash a pre-rooted stock-based ROM because I thought it would be easier to get root. Although, my preference really would be to get the stock update, then just root that. The only reason I wanted to flash an already rooted ROM was because it seems kind of tricky to root it haha. Is the systemless root by ivcarlos the easiest way to root MM? Or have you perhaps found another way to root it on MM?
Additionally, just to make sure before I go on with anything: I should first let the clean phone upgrade to android 6.0.1, AFTER that I should unlock the bootloader, followed by installing TWRP and root, correct? @vertigo_2_20
Thank you for any help you can give me!
Henryy97 said:
Thanks a lot for your help! It's good that the phone will most likely come with MM. Does Motorola also offer an OTA update to 6.0.1?
I wanted to flash a pre-rooted stock-based ROM because I thought it would be easier to get root. Although, my preference really would be to get the stock update, then just root that. The only reason I wanted to flash an already rooted ROM was because it seems kind of tricky to root it haha. Is the systemless root by ivcarlos the easiest way to root MM? Or have you perhaps found another way to root it on MM?
Additionally, just to make sure before I go on with anything: I should first let the clean phone upgrade to android 6.0.1, AFTER that I should unlock the bootloader, followed by installing TWRP and root, correct? @vertigo_2_20
Thank you for any help you can give me!
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IIRC, that's how I did it (OTA 6.0.1 > unlock bootloader > flash TWRP > root), though I did miss some things along the way that I only found out about after the fact, so I've included warnings about those thing here. Before I rooted, I read the following (and a LOT more, but these are the primary ones I based how I did it on):
ivcarlos' method, which you mentioned
And this, which is what I followed for rooting, though I don't remember why. I also had to use 2.62-3 as mentioned in the instructions vs 2.65 which is mentioned at the end as verified working, since it didn't work for me.
I ran across this as well, probably when 2.65 didn't work, and there's some good tidbits in there, worth reading through.
I also found this, but only after I finished rooting with the other method, and I didn't have the time to mess with it. I don't know enough to say whether it's really a better method or not, but something worth checking out if you have the time.
Just make sure you backup anything you want to keep (phone log, texts, pictures, etc) before unlocking the bootloader. I recommend SMS Backup & Restore with Titanium Backup as a secondary backup. Then, use fastboot to back up your recovery before flashing TWRP (I didn't know to do this until too late). Also, make sure you back up your /system and /boot partitions (don't need /data, since you're dealing with a freshly wiped phone from unlocking the bootloader, so nothing there to back up) with TWRP (and store the backups on the external SD card and/or your computer) as soon as you get TWRP flashed, before you do anything else.
Remember, anything you do that modifies /system can potentially break the "systemless" aspect of this root, thereby breaking Android Pay as well as the ability to receive OTA updates. Examples of things that might do this are AdAway (there's apparently a systemless file that needs to be flashed before installing it, which I didn't realize until too late, so mine may be broken already) and battery apps like GSam and BetterBatteryStats. I've yet to get an answer on if these really do break it, though. One that definitely will is Xposed, but I just found there's a systemless version, so when I get time I plan on trying that out. I think even if you do break it you can just a) reflash your backup (/recovery, /boot, & /system) then take an OTA and reflash TWRP and re-root, or b) flash the updated partitions from the OTA then reflash recovery and re-root. Of course, any of those things that changed /system (AdAway, Xposed, battery apps, etc), will probably be broken by this, and I believe they're supposed to be uninstalled first and reinstalled after.
I wouldn't doubt if I've screwed something up, so hopefully somebody can correct me on anything I did, as well as provide more information regarding the breaking of systemless.
vertigo_2_20 said:
IIRC, that's how I did it (OTA 6.0.1 > unlock bootloader > flash TWRP > root), though I did miss some things along the way that I only found out about after the fact, so I've included warnings about those thing here. Before I rooted, I read the following (and a LOT more, but these are the primary ones I based how I did it on):
ivcarlos' method, which you mentioned
And this, which is what I followed for rooting, though I don't remember why. I also had to use 2.62-3 as mentioned in the instructions vs 2.65 which is mentioned at the end as verified working, since it didn't work for me.
I ran across this as well, probably when 2.65 didn't work, and there's some good tidbits in there, worth reading through.
I also found this, but only after I finished rooting with the other method, and I didn't have the time to mess with it. I don't know enough to say whether it's really a better method or not, but something worth checking out if you have the time.
Just make sure you backup anything you want to keep (phone log, texts, pictures, etc) before unlocking the bootloader. I recommend SMS Backup & Restore with Titanium Backup as a secondary backup. Then, use fastboot to back up your recovery before flashing TWRP (I didn't know to do this until too late). Also, make sure you back up your /system and /boot partitions (don't need /data, since you're dealing with a freshly wiped phone from unlocking the bootloader, so nothing there to back up) with TWRP (and store the backups on the external SD card and/or your computer) as soon as you get TWRP flashed, before you do anything else.
Remember, anything you do that modifies /system can potentially break the "systemless" aspect of this root, thereby breaking Android Pay as well as the ability to receive OTA updates. Examples of things that might do this are AdAway (there's apparently a systemless file that needs to be flashed before installing it, which I didn't realize until too late, so mine may be broken already) and battery apps like GSam and BetterBatteryStats. I've yet to get an answer on if these really do break it, though. One that definitely will is Xposed, but I just found there's a systemless version, so when I get time I plan on trying that out. I think even if you do break it you can just a) reflash your backup (/recovery, /boot, & /system) then take an OTA and reflash TWRP and re-root, or b) flash the updated partitions from the OTA then reflash recovery and re-root. Of course, any of those things that changed /system (AdAway, Xposed, battery apps, etc), will probably be broken by this, and I believe they're supposed to be uninstalled first and reinstalled after.
I wouldn't doubt if I've screwed something up, so hopefully somebody can correct me on anything I did, as well as provide more information regarding the breaking of systemless.
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Thank you for your reply! I'll read the links you sent me, although from what I can see the "root done right" is for the nexus 6, and if it works for the moto x pure it doesn't seem to be overall that much beneficial over the systemless root.
What exactly is the effect of breaking the "systemless" aspect of the root? For example, if I install AdAway, what will happen? I didn't really get that from your post.
Perhaps after all this process, I'll write a how-to guide, heh
So according to your experience, SUPERSU 2.62-3 is the adequate version to use for android 6.0.1?
Thanks again!
Henryy97 said:
Thank you for your reply! I'll read the links you sent me, although from what I can see the "root done right" is for the nexus 6, and if it works for the moto x pure it doesn't seem to be overall that much beneficial over the systemless root.
What exactly is the effect of breaking the "systemless" aspect of the root? For example, if I install AdAway, what will happen? I didn't really get that from your post.
Perhaps after all this process, I'll write a how-to guide, heh
So according to your experience, SUPERSU 2.62-3 is the adequate version to use for android 6.0.1?
Thanks again!
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My understanding is that breaking it will render Android Pay inoperable and will make it so you can't take an OTA, though as I mentioned, it seems you still can by reverting back, it's just a LOT more work. But again, as I said, I'm not completely sure and I haven't been able to get an answer.
As for the supersu version, it doesn't really matter, because you'll just update it once you're rooted and booted into the OS. I just found that, despite what that post said, 2.65 did not work for me, so I had to flash 2.62-3 which did. Not a big deal, was just a little frustrating and scary when 2.65 didn't work because I was worried that I broke something and that the method wasn't going to work.
Edit: Good catch BTW on the link having to do with the Nexus. I didn't even look at what sub-forum it was in. At least it's one less thing to worry about for now, though I do hope it spreads to more devices, because we could always use more, not to mention better (assuming it is) ways of doing things.
vertigo_2_20 said:
My understanding is that breaking it will render Android Pay inoperable and will make it so you can't take an OTA, though as I mentioned, it seems you still can by reverting back, it's just a LOT more work. But again, as I said, I'm not completely sure and I haven't been able to get an answer.
As for the supersu version, it doesn't really matter, because you'll just update it once you're rooted and booted into the OS. I just found that, despite what that post said, 2.65 did not work for me, so I had to flash 2.62-3 which did. Not a big deal, was just a little frustrating and scary when 2.65 didn't work because I was worried that I broke something and that the method wasn't going to work.
Edit: Good catch BTW on the link having to do with the Nexus. I didn't even look at what sub-forum it was in. At least it's one less thing to worry about for now, though I do hope it spreads to more devices, because we could always use more, not to mention better (assuming it is) ways of doing things.
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Thanks. I am aware that you can revert back to lollipop, and do the update from there whenever you want to update to a newer OTA MM update. However, my real question is, what does it mean to break the systemless aspect? I know that it will prevent further OTA updates, but will xposed work as it should, etc? If I am rooting my device, it's really to get xposed. So, if it means that I must revert to an unrooted stock rom everytime I wanna update, then so be it. I just want to make sure that breaking the systemless root aspect will not make the ROM unstable. Will it?
Henryy97 said:
Thanks. I am aware that you can revert back to lollipop, and do the update from there whenever you want to update to a newer OTA MM update. However, my real question is, what does it mean to break the systemless aspect? I know that it will prevent further OTA updates, but will xposed work as it should, etc? If I am rooting my device, it's really to get xposed. So, if it means that I must revert to an unrooted stock rom everytime I wanna update, then so be it. I just want to make sure that breaking the systemless root aspect will not make the ROM unstable. Will it?
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I think you'll find all the info you're looking for and more in those links. But in summary, as I said, AFAIK the only consequence is breaking OTAs. It does not prevent you from using xposed, rather xposed is one of the things that breaks it. Systemless is so called because it roots without affecting the /system partition, therefore preventing the breaking of Android Pay and allowing OTAs. Once /system is modified (unclear if at all or just beyond a point), these two will no longer function. So if you "break" the systemless root by doing stuff that modifies /system (i.e. xposed, etc), you basically now have a standard (non-systemless) root, which simply negates the benefits it provides. But as far as I could tell, systemless is the only option anyway, so you just do it since it works and it's easy, then you either are careful not to break it if Pay/OTAs are important to you, or if you don't care about those then you just do whatever you want just as if you were rooted in the traditional way. But as I said, once I get the time, I plan to try out the systemless xposed, though it may not matter since I might have already broken it, but may as well, and maybe it'll mean not having to uninstall it when it comes time to take an OTA. If you play with it and figure it out, let me know.
vertigo_2_20 said:
I think you'll find all the info you're looking for and more in those links. But in summary, as I said, AFAIK the only consequence is breaking OTAs. It does not prevent you from using xposed, rather xposed is one of the things that breaks it. Systemless is so called because it roots without affecting the /system partition, therefore preventing the breaking of Android Pay and allowing OTAs. Once /system is modified (unclear if at all or just beyond a point), these two will no longer function. So if you "break" the systemless root by doing stuff that modifies /system (i.e. xposed, etc), you basically now have a standard (non-systemless) root, which simply negates the benefits it provides. But as far as I could tell, systemless is the only option anyway, so you just do it since it works and it's easy, then you either are careful not to break it if Pay/OTAs are important to you, or if you don't care about those then you just do whatever you want just as if you were rooted in the traditional way. But as I said, once I get the time, I plan to try out the systemless xposed, though it may not matter since I might have already broken it, but may as well, and maybe it'll mean not having to uninstall it when it comes time to take an OTA. If you play with it and figure it out, let me know.
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Once again, thanks. I reached the limit of thanks I can give for today, haha. I'm reading up much more on the process, etc. Just one final question, how often do the OTA updates come on average? I always like having the latest software installed, so MAYBE I can consider having an unrooted phone.. although that will be very difficult. I love my xposed. Anyway, I guess if updates only come about once a month, then rooting is fine. Not too much of a loss. I will definitely be making a how-to guide once I'm done with all of this! (and once my device arrives)
Henryy97 said:
Once again, thanks. I reached the limit of thanks I can give for today, haha. I'm reading up much more on the process, etc. Just one final question, how often do the OTA updates come on average? I always like having the latest software installed, so MAYBE I can consider having an unrooted phone.. although that will be very difficult. I love my xposed. Anyway, I guess if updates only come about once a month, then rooting is fine. Not too much of a loss. I will definitely be making a how-to guide once I'm done with all of this! (and once my device arrives)
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I bought my phone ~5-6 months ago. When I got it, the MM update was waiting (released late last year). Probably ~2 months later, another update came through. Since then, nothing. So it looks like probably 3 maybe 4 a year. I'd rather be rooted with all the benefits than get a small update, though I'd really rather have both.
6.0.1 is not out yet although there is a reteu version posted which works great. Rooting is as simple flashing su 2.62-3 with twrp.
lafester said:
6.0.1 is not out yet although there is a reteu version posted which works great. Rooting is as simple flashing su 2.62-3 with twrp.
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I'll check it out. Do you mind sharing the link to that version just in case? I am very confused now though, because @vertigo_2_20 says he has 6.0.1, and you say you didn't get it. Perhaps location matters? Can you elaborate a little bit more?
And actually, I've just realized: I think I was looking at too many outdated posts perhaps with all the complicated root procedures such as the one by ivcarlos. The guide that amit.lohar made is very simple which is the one vertigo kindly shared in this OP. One final question @vertigo_2_20 (sorry for so many questions). Does the method by amit.lohar work for 6.0 anddd 6.0.1? I would assume so since they're pretty much very similar. What is your take on this?
I assumed I was on 6.0.1 because I received a system update after being on MM, so I don't know what else it could be. Though it does just say 6.0 in settings. Regardless, I only did it a few weeks ago, so if you're fully updated, you'll be the same as what I was. Even if not, I would think it wouldn't matter. As long as you do a back up before messing with things, worse case scenario is you screw something up and restore the backup.
Henryy97 said:
I'll check it out. Do you mind sharing the link to that version just in case? I am very confused now though, because @vertigo_2_20 says he has 6.0.1, and you say you didn't get it. Perhaps location matters? Can you elaborate a little bit more?
And actually, I've just realized: I think I was looking at too many outdated posts perhaps with all the complicated root procedures such as the one by ivcarlos. The guide that amit.lohar made is very simple which is the one vertigo kindly shared in this OP. One final question @vertigo_2_20 (sorry for so many questions). Does the method by amit.lohar work for 6.0 anddd 6.0.1? I would assume so since they're pretty much very similar. What is your take on this?
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No I don't get links for people... this forum is small and easy to read. Dev section has one pre loaded with franken and there are two threads in general.
Henryy97 said:
Once again, thanks. I reached the limit of thanks I can give for today, haha. I'm reading up much more on the process, etc. Just one final question, how often do the OTA updates come on average? I always like having the latest software installed, so MAYBE I can consider having an unrooted phone.. although that will be very difficult. I love my xposed. Anyway, I guess if updates only come about once a month, then rooting is fine. Not too much of a loss. I will definitely be making a how-to guide once I'm done with all of this! (and once my device arrives)
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If receiving the OTA updates is something you really want, systemless root will allow you to get them with a lot less effort. The trick is knowing which of the apps that require root privileges will end up modifying your system. Avoid the ones that will and you can enjoy root with less work to get updates. If the only root required apps you are interested in modifies the system, then it will be a matter of what you value more.
Sent from my awesome phone!
That reminds me of another thing I haven't yet figured out. If /system is modified, I'm assuming the OTA will still show up and just won't install, but I wonder if it won't even show up anymore. Anyone know?
aybarrap1 said:
If receiving the OTA updates is something you really want, systemless root will allow you to get them with a lot less effort. The trick is knowing which of the apps that require root privileges will end up modifying your system. Avoid the ones that will and you can enjoy root with less work to get updates. If the only root required apps you are interested in modifies the system, then it will be a matter of what you value more.
Sent from my awesome phone!
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Ahhh! I guess I'll just flash ROMS to update my phone then because I need my xposed Besides, after 6.0, if we want root, we can only get the systemless one anyway, right?
Also, I did not quite understand something about systemless root. If the root is 'systemless', then how can apps still edit the system? I've read up that after a memory wipe, the root will actually go away but what happens if I have apps that already modified the system? I just don't quite get how the apps can get into the system and modify it, if the root itself cannot do that because it is systemless. Am I getting the wrong idea here? I've read, and read, and read. I can't find an answer to that :/ According to what you have said though, if I were to get an app that modifies the system, then it would essentially *break* the systemless aspect of it, right? Therefore, it just becomes a normal root?
I feel like I'm going in circles now so I hope someone will be able to explain this for me or just point me in the right direction!
Systemless root does not mean root doesn't have access to /system, it simply means a way of gaining root access without modifying the /system partition, because if you gain root with the old methods, which DO modify /system, it breaks Android Pay and OTAs. Root still has access to modify system, hence why you have to be careful in installing apps, xposed, etc, because if they have root access, they can modify it, and if they do, your systemless root just became useless. The whole point is to NOT modify it so as to keep those certain functions intact, but it doesn't prevent you from doing so after gaining root.
vertigo_2_20 said:
Systemless root does not mean root doesn't have access to /system, it simply means a way of gaining root access without modifying the /system partition, because if you gain root with the old methods, which DO modify /system, it breaks Android Pay and OTAs. Root still has access to modify system, hence why you have to be careful in installing apps, xposed, etc, because if they have root access, they can modify it, and if they do, your systemless root just became useless. The whole point is to NOT modify it so as to keep those certain functions intact, but it doesn't prevent you from doing so after gaining root.
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My experience was rooting 5.1.1 on the new phone. I backed up at every stage. I tried a few roms, no big deal. I liked 5.1.1 better due to micro sd card usage. I stupidly allowed the OTA to attempt to install. I knew it would fail but hoped it would stop nagging. The result I did not expect was phone continually rebooting on its own, trying to complete the update. After it completed the reboot it would start to shut down and begin the reboot process again. I restored a backup and froze the Motorola Update app with Titanium Backup. Problem solved. Don't do what I did!
Why would you want to stay on L? M is so much better. Between Doze and permission control, you'll have better battery life and more privacy and security. Not to mention the increased security from having more up-to-date software. I'd recommend just taking the update.