Database Users

Just what you always wanted - 2400 page processor manual!

I'm probably the only person on this planet that would ever download a 20.5-meg, 2426-page document titled "S5PC110 RISC Microprocessor User's Manual", but if there are other hardware freaks out there interested, here you go:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=repository&id=644&c=samsung_s5pc110_microprocessor_user_manual_1.00
As you may or may not know, the S5PC110, better known as Hummingbird, is the SoC (System on a Chip) that is the brain of your Epic. Now, when you have those moments when you really just gotta know the memory buffer size for your H.264 encoder or are dying to pore over a block diagram of your SGX540 GPU architecture, you can!
( Note: It does get a little bit dry at parts. Unless you're an ARM engineer, I suppose. )

Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol

now we can overclock the gpu
/sarcasm

cbusillo said:
Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol
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Hah, because I know exactly squat about Android development. Hardware is more my thing, though if I find some spare time to play around with the Android SDK maybe that can change.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

This actually is really exciting news. RISC architectures in general, especially the ARM instruction set is great and honestly it would so the works a lot of good kicking the chains of x86
Sent from my Nexus S with a keyboard

Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.

sauron0101 said:
Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.
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Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..

gTen said:
Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..
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No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.

Well, I got the Epic knowing Tegra 2 was coming in a few months with next-gen performance. I was badly in need of a new phone and the Epic, while not a Cortex A9, is no slouch.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

sauron0101 said:
No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
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Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.
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The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..

gTen said:
Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
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AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf

Electrofreak said:
AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf
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I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/

gTen said:
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
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Here are some additional benchmarks comparing the Galaxy Tab to the Viewsonic G Tablet:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4062/samsung-galaxy-tab-the-anandtech-review/5
It's possible that the Tegra 2 isn't optimized yet. Not to mention, Honeycomb will be the release that makes the most of dual cores. However, there are lackluster performance gains in terms of graphics - most of it seems to be purely CPU gains in performance.
I'm not entirely sure that Neocore is representative of real world performance either. It's possible that it may have been optimized for some platforms. Furthermore, I would not be surprised if Neocore gave inflated scores for the Snapdragon and it's Adreno graphics platform. Of course, neither is Quadrant.
I think that real world games like Quake III based games are the way to go, although until we see more graphics demanding games, I suppose that there's little to test (we're expecting more games for Android next year).
Finally, we've gotten to a point for web browsing where its the data connection HSPA+, LTE, or WiMAX that will dictate how fast pages load. It's like upgrading the CPU for a PC. I currently run an overclocked q6600 - if I were to upgrade to say a Sandy Bridge when it comes out next year, I don't expect significant improvements in real world browsing performance.
Eventually, the smartphone market will face the same problem that the PC market does. Apart from us enthusiasts who enjoy benchmarking and overclocking, apart from high end gaming, and perhaps some specialized operations (like video encoding which I do a bit of), you really don't need the latest and greatest CPU or 6+ GB of RAM (which many new desktops come with). Same with high end GPUs. Storage follows the same dilemna. I imagine that as storage grows, I'll be storing FLAC music files instead of AAC, MP3, or OGG, and more video. I will also use my cell phone to replace my USB key drive. Otherwise, there's no need for bigger storage.

gTen said:
I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/
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Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.

Electrofreak said:
Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.
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I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?

gTen said:
I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
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I'm one of Taylor's (unofficial) tech consultants, and I spoke with him regarding that article. Though, credit where it's due to Taylor, he's been digging stuff up recently that I don't have a clue about. We've talked about Honeycomb and dual-core tablets, and since Honeycomb will be the first release of Android to support tablets officially, and since Motorola seems to be holding back the release of its Tegra 2 tablet until Honeycomb (quickly checks AndroidAndMe to make sure I haven't said anything Taylor hasn't already said), and rumors say that Honeycomb will have dual-core support, it all makes sense.
But yes, the whitepaper is the one he used to base that article on.
gTen said:
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?
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Android 2.2 was used in all of their tests according to the footnotes in the document. While I believe that Android 2.2 is capable of using both cores simultaneously, I don't believe it is capable of threading them separately. But that's just my theory. I'm just going off of what the Gingerbread documentation from Google says; and unfortunately there is no mention of improved multi-core processor support in Gingerbread.
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.3-highlights.html
As for FPS and the dithering... they don't really go there; the whitepaper is clearly focused on CPU performance, and so it features benchmark scores and timed results. I take it all with a pinch of salt anyhow; despite the graphs and such, it's still basically an NVIDIA advertisement.
That said, Taylor has been to one of their expos or whatever you call it, and he's convinced that the Tegra 2 GPU will perform several times better than the SGX 540 in the Galaxy S phones. I'm not so sure I'm convinced... I've seen comparable performance benchmarks come from the LG Tegra 2 phone, but Taylor claims it was an early build with and he's seen even better performance. Time will tell I suppose...
EDIT - As for not being able to access the .pdfs, what are you talking about?! XDA app / browser and Adobe Reader!

[OFFTOPIC] Ipad2 Dual Core CPU made by Samsung

Apple's A5 CPU in iPad 2 confirms manufacturing by Samsung
source: http://www.appleinsider.com/article...ipad_2_confirms_manufacturing_by_samsung.html
That was quite a funny thing to read for the morning breakfast
Ipad2 Dual core CPUs are made by Samsung.
In a way we can expect really good CPUs for our next phone upgrade from Samsung
I wouldn't be surprised if the CPU used on the upcoming SGS2 is the same dual core CPU as the one found in Ipad2

The same was the case in the iPhone 4, original iPad, and the Samsung Galaxy S series of phones.
I'm actually kind of curious what kind of agreements the two have now. The A4/Hummingbird chip was originally created by Intrinsity and Samsung, then Apple acquired Intrinsity. I they probably had shared IP the whole time and are continuing the relationship to bring the same basic chip design to both Apple and Samsung. The chips aren't identical, but they are pretty close. The CPU is the same I believe, but being that it's a SOC, the GPUs and other components aren't necessarily the same.

Are there any detailed information? I wonder if iPad 2 uses Exynos...

d3sm0nd said:
Are there any detailed information? I wonder if iPad 2 uses Exynos...
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I doubt it. Exynos is the name of the SoC. They are likely using a similar Cortex A9 CPU, but the SoC is likely customized depending on the application. Apple would have had little reason to acquire Intrinsity if they were going to use Samsung's whole package. That's how the A4 and Hummingbird were.
To add a little further proof, Apple is said to be using the SGX543MP GPU in the A5, while we know that the Orion (Exynos 4210) SoC that the SGS 2 will be using is using the Mali 400 GPU.
I'm not sure what Apple's intentions are exactly. They may just be interested in customizing their packages to their specific needs, but get the major parts (CPU, GPU, etc) built by someone else, or they may be in a learning process to completely design their own chips in the future. They certainly have the money to do something like that, but I don't know that they have the interest.
At least that's how I see it all. If anyone else has further insight please let us know.

The SGX543MP4 (used in the sony NGP) is wayyyyyyy better than the mali 400, but you get what you get
Now, the interesting part about the PowerVR is that it is a true MIMD [Multiple Instruction-Multiple Data http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMD ] architecture. In their press releases, ImgTech is bragging about the capabilities of the "GP-GPU", but even if we take a look at the specifications with the cold head, a lot of surprises are in store. The multi-core design is available in dual, quad, octal and sedec-core variants [SGX543MP2, SGX543MP4, SGX543MP8, SGX543MP16], and they're by no means slouches.
For instance, a quad-core version SGX543MP4 at only 200 MHz frequency delivers 133 million polygons per second and offers fill-rate of four billion pixels per second [4GPixel/s], in the range of GeForce 8600 cards. For that matter, 4GPixel/s runs 40nm GeForce GT210 [2.5 GPixel/s] into the ground. Given that GeForce GT210 runs at 589 MHz for the core and 1.4 GHz for shaders. Since PowerVR SGX543 targets handheld devices, there is no saying what the performance plateau is.
An eight core SGX543MP8 at 200 MHz delivers 266 million polygons and eight billion pixels per second, while faster clocked version, for instance, at 400 MHz would deliver 532 million polygons and 16 billion pixels per second. 16 billion pixels per second equal GeForce GTX 260-216, for instance.
After analyzing the performance at hand, it is no wonder that Sony chose to go with PowerVR for the next-generation PlayStation Portable. While the exact details of the SoC are still in question, our take is that Sony could go with quad-core setup at 400MHz [8GPixel/s], paired with a dual-core CPU based on ARM Cortex architecture. This would put Sony direct in line against Tegra-powered Nintendo DS2, PowerVR-based Apple's iPhone 4G and Palm Pre2.
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ryude said:
The SGX543MP4 (used in the sony NGP) is wayyyyyyy better than the mali 400, but you get what you get
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The source of this is information is what exactly...?

martino2k6 said:
The source of this is information is what exactly...?
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The mali 400 specs and performance figures have already been revealed, as well as the SGX543MP4. Benchmarks also favor the PowerVR.

Strange, so I guess that this disproves the other articles that have stated that Apple has had the Taiwanese company TSMC develop the chips for them.
Sent from my Nexus S

Carne_Asada_Fries said:
Strange, so I guess that this disproves the other articles that have stated that Apple has had the Taiwanese company TSMC develop the chips for them.
Sent from my Nexus S
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The proof is solid and indeed disproves those other articles.

d3sm0nd said:
Are there any detailed information? I wonder if iPad 2 uses Exynos...
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The GPU is different in Ipad 2, Ipad 2 has PowerVR SGX543MP2 (I think MP2 means 2 cores) according to Anandtech.
http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index...rmance-explored-powervr-sgx543mp2-benchmarked

ryude said:
The mali 400 specs and performance figures have already been revealed, as well as the SGX543MP4. Benchmarks also favor the PowerVR.
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iPad has the MP2 variant, which has two cores. The Mali-400 has 4 cores. I mean, this doesn't mean much but personally I think it's still in the air until someone does proper benchmarks with optimised drivers on a final release model.

martino2k6 said:
iPad has the MP2 variant, which has two cores. The Mali-400 has 4 cores. I mean, this doesn't mean much but personally I think it's still in the air until someone does proper benchmarks with optimised drivers on a final release model.
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I'll definitely be interested since I just got the iPad 2 and tentatively plan on getting the SGS2. Biggest thing about Android though is that it's so hard to get apps that actually utilize the GPU to it's fullest extent. Apps don't get updated for one top of the line phone while most can't handle it, so in that sense I think we'll see better performance out of the iPad 2. It'll be interesting to see if the Tegra games run on the SGS2 and if they are optimized enough to make good use out of the GPU.

Wouldn't it be possible, with an ipad that is jailbroken to allow dual booting into android since the processor will match that of samsungs mobiles? Generally doesn't the Chooser/firmware discrepancy usually disallow this? If this gap is now filled it would seem doable.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

crossfire2500 said:
Wouldn't it be possible, with an ipad that is jailbroken to allow dual booting into android since the processor will match that of samsungs mobiles? Generally doesn't the Chooser/firmware discrepancy usually disallow this? If this gap is now filled it would seem doable.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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And why would you want to do that? People buy iDevices for the UX which iOS gives, mainly the multitude of apps and ease of use that it provides. Furthermore, Steve Jobs would chop your head off...

crossfire2500 said:
Wouldn't it be possible, with an ipad that is jailbroken to allow dual booting into android since the processor will match that of samsungs mobiles? Generally doesn't the Chooser/firmware discrepancy usually disallow this? If this gap is now filled it would seem doable.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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The CPU is probably the easiest part. As long as you're an ARM CPU, you can compile support for it. It's the drivers for every other piece of hardware that would be important.

NEXT GEN samsung's SOC to use POWER VR not MALI

hey folks. Samsung is going back to power vr as the graphics force to power its next gen soc(A15 socs??). With HD super-amoled plus and power vr 6xx(not too sure if its 6xx or 5xx) series to power them,it will definitely be another great year for Samsung and android. I personally can't wait.
what do you guys think?
a similar soc is ST-Ericsson Nova A9600 which is also an A15 with power vr 6 serires gpu read here for discussion on this NOVA

awesome-member said:
hey folks. Samsung is going back to power vr as the graphics force to power its next gen soc(A15 socs??). With HD super-amoled plus and power vr 6xx(not too sure if its 6xx or 5xx) series to power them,it will definitely be another great year for Samsung and android. I personally can't wait.
what do you guys think?
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Where did ya get this from? I thought it was reported that it would be Cortex A15 + Mali T604?

Logi_Ca1 said:
Where did ya get this from? I thought it was reported that it would be Cortex A15 + Mali T604?
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i have the evidence.I'll be more than happy to share it to a mod but wont release for general public.(for obvious reasons)

Source please?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

awesome-member said:
i have the evidence.I'll be more than happy to share it to a mod but wont release for general public.(for obvious reasons)
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Well ok... Personally I don't care either way, I just hope they go for whatever has the best performance/power consumption ratio.

WagTwo said:
Source please?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
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I assure its legit. and it specifically says Samsung are moving away form mail.

Logi_Ca1 said:
Well ok... Personally I don't care either way, I just hope they go for whatever has the best performance/power consumption ratio.
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dont care !!! remember when sgs2 was first launched how many games/apps were incompatible. significant amount of app that i'd bought while i had sgs were not working on my sgs2 things are getting better now. but using the similar gpu found in ios devices and psvita does make a difference and I as a consumer will have more option and it's not just limited to games but to all other apps that uses open gl.

awesome-member said:
I assure its legit. and it specifically says Samsung are moving away form mail.
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It makes sense, I recently read news that Samsung licensed some PowerVR GPUs.
But I do hope it's a SGX 6XX, anything else would be a disappointment (for me).
I also hope that it's going to be a dual-core (1.6GHz) Cortex A15, if it is it will be way faster than a quadcore Cortex A9 especially when you consider that applications are only starting to support dual-cores right now.

wurzelsepp3 said:
It makes sense, I recently read news that Samsung licensed some PowerVR GPUs.
But I do hope it's a SGX 6XX, anything else would be a disappointment (for me).
I also hope that it's going to be a dual-core (1.6GHz) Cortex A15, if it is it will be way faster than a quadcore Cortex A9 especially when you consider that applications are only starting to support dual-cores right now.
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we might still see newer quad A9 with mali but by late 2012 we should expect Samsung coming out with A15 with power vr. since A6(for ipad3) is widely rumored to be A15 and we all know who makes A5 for apple.we should see the Samsung version of A15 in 2012.
also if you remember the exynos/orion which was delayed and it was reported(not officially though) that the reason was 'problems with it graphics unit'.

i like powerVR more then mali

Any mods that can confirm the information?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

I'd prefer if it was a power vr 6x. Easier support from developers due to iphones using power vr also.

awesome-member said:
hey folks. Samsung is going back to power vr as the graphics force to power its next gen soc(A15 socs??). With HD super-amoled plus and power vr 6xx(not too sure if its 6xx or 5xx) series to power them,it will definitely be another great year for Samsung and android. I personally can't wait.
what do you guys think?
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I'm indifferent either way. The Mali 400 in my S2 can keep up with all the games and I'm not seeing a trend towards better quality graphics simply because the screens on our devices do not support it, this might change with ICS and the 720p screen on the Galaxy Nexus.
For the future it's wait and see. Usually better graphics means more power consumption and that's a trade-off I'm not willing to make.

They've opted for both the next gen of PowerVR and Mali chips, so it could be either.
OP is not wrong, but he is not right either.

GIR said:
I'm indifferent either way. The Mali 400 in my S2 can keep up with all the games and I'm not seeing a trend towards better quality graphics simply because the screens on our devices do not support it, this might change with ICS and the 720p screen on the Galaxy Nexus.
For the future it's wait and see. Usually better graphics means more power consumption and that's a trade-off I'm not willing to make.
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I'm personally hoping for a usable NDS or PSP emulator in 2012.
power consumption should be fine considering that 45 SiO2 > 32/28 nm hkmg is a huge jump.

Rawat said:
They've opted for both the next gen of PowerVR and Mali chips, so it could be either.
OP is not wrong, but he is not right either.
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i am aware that samsung is the licensee of both mali and power vr but the source specifically says that they are 'moving away from mali'. we may see few versions of exynos with mali powering some of the future devices but their flagship devices will have power VR.

WTF guys this is exclusive news to XDA and you rate it 2 stars. Just because you are not getting the news from engadget?? there were news about samsung being the licensee of both powervr and mali but i have never seen a report that says which way the samsung was heading in terms of graphics wise.

At best, this is an unsubstantiated rumour. We'll know more about Samsung's SoC plans when they unveil the Galaxy S III at MWC.
tbqh, your news hardly seems reliable, and even if it was doesn't really matter. Samsung have used PowerVR for many of their SoCs, and Mali 400 for only the Exynos 4210

Samsung has announced and is sampling two newer SOCs; Exynos 4212 and Exynos 5250.
Exynos 4210 - dual-core Cortex A9 @ 1.2ghz, Mali 400 MP4 GPU, 45nm process.
Exynos 4212 - dual-core Cortex A9 @ 1.5ghz, Mali 400 MP4 GPU, 32nm process. (GPU Speculated, not officially disclosed)
Exynos 5250 - dual-core Cortex A15 @ 2.0ghz, Mali T604 GPU, 32nm process.(GPU Speculated, not officially disclosed)
Here's the thing about sampling/testing. SOCs typically have to be sampled for 6 months (or more) before they show up in phones. 4212 started sampling in September/October and 5250 started sampling in November. That means that both should be available for the typical Galaxy S launch window (my bet is on 5250).
If Samsung does go back to PowerVR, by the time they start sampling this SOC they would have already missed the Galaxy SIII launch window. So, I find this unsourced information interesting but highly unlikely at this point. Once you can reveal your source(s) we'll be able to judge this more accurately. I appreciate the info and respect your need to conceal your source(s) at this time.

jaykresge said:
Samsung has announced and is sampling two newer SOCs; Exynos 4212 and Exynos 5250.
Exynos 4210 - dual-core Cortex A9 @ 1.2ghz, Mali 400 MP GPU, 45nm process.
Exynos 4212 - dual-core Cortex A9 @ 1.5ghz, Mali 400 MP GPU, 32nm process.
Exynos 5250 - dual-core Cortex A15 @ 2.0ghz, Mali T604 GPU, 32nm process.
Here's the thing about sampling/testing. SOCs typically have to be sampled for 6 months (or more) before they show up in phones. 4212 started sampling in September/October and 5250 started sampling in November. That means that both should be available for the typical Galaxy S launch window (my bet is on 5250).
If Samsung does go back to PowerVR, by the time they start sampling this SOC they would have already missed the Galaxy SIII launch window. So, I find this unsourced information interesting but highly unlikely at this point. Once you can reveal your source(s) we'll be able to judge this more accurately. I appreciate the info and respect your need to conceal your source(s) at this time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with your post.it is highly likely that sgs 3 will sport a Exynos 5250. but with in next year I think wee will see high res 3D tablet since samsung is also a TV manufacturer(we all know that 3d TV is the TV for 2012 /s) and it makes sense to lure more people in to 3D (3D ecosystem???).to achieve such graphical horsepower Power VR 6 is the only option they have. my bet is we will see highres 3d tablet by q4 of 2012 sporting an soc with power vr 6xxxx

Quad-core or 2gb ram?

In real phone scenario what we could benefit more? Will a quad-core be faster the 2gb of ram? Or will a 2gb will perform better against quad-core?
Pocketnow did a video between the gs2 and gs3 and both were opening apps really quick, they were really close on browsing, gaming. Do you think the 2gb will make a difference on the phone compare to the international? What are your thoughts?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA

2GB will help with multitasking while the faster processor will help with gaming and to a degree, faster apps.

If it were an iPhone, then the quad core would be much better because apps will actually make use of the amazing gpu. In android, I doubt there will be an app released in the next year or two that realistically benefits from the quad core's gpu vs the dual core's.
Both the dual and quad core will have all of the software optimizations Samsung has done for web browsing. The 2gb memory is probably overkill at this point, but in theory it means that apps will never close in the background since there will be no need to free up new memory.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA

lepapirriky said:
In real phone scenario what we could benefit more? Will a quad-core be faster the 2gb of ram? Or will a 2gb will perform better against quad-core?
Pocketnow did a video between the gs2 and gs3 and both were opening apps really quick, they were really close on browsing, gaming. Do you think the 2gb will make a difference on the phone compare to the international? What are your thoughts?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my thoughts:
1. Still on the Epic 4G I've never had any real lag.
2. Lack of ram can stall a device, but an excess of ram will not make it faster.
3. Mobile quad-cores are new and untested.
4. Android is not designed for quad-core processors.
5. The dual-core US version should easily match the quad-core international.
6. More ram means more easily multitasking/app-switching.
Check out this article.
muyoso said:
If it were an iPhone, then the quad core would be much better because apps will actually make use of the amazing gpu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amazing gpu? The Galaxy S I opposed the iPhone 4. The Epic 4G has a better gpu than the iPhone 4, the PowerVR SGX 540 vs the iPhone's PowerVR SGX 535. Just thought I'd mention it since you're in an Epic 4G forum.

RandomKing said:
Here's my thoughts:
1. Still on the Epic 4G I've never had any real lag.
2. Lack of ram can stall a device, but an excess of ram will not make it faster.
3. Mobile quad-cores are new and untested.
4. Android is not designed for quad-core processors.
5. The dual-core US version should easily match the quad-core international.
6. More ram means more easily multitasking/app-switching.
Check out this article.
Amazing gpu? The Galaxy S I opposed the iPhone 4. The Epic 4G has a better gpu than the iPhone 4, the PowerVR SGX 540 vs the iPhone's PowerVR SGX 535. Just thought I'd mention it since you're in an Epic 4G forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Well the whole android cant handle 4 cores i think is false because its derived from Linux and i know those who use 4,6,8 core processor's and use Linux. so if android isn't im sure its all in code is all.
2. More Ram does mean things will run much faster. For Example: playing gta 4 with 4GB of DDR3 Ram @ 1333MHz plays decent but my pc setup that plays gta 4 with 8Gb of DDR2 Ram @ 1333MHz plays faster and loads faster but GPU does factor those speeds too so, in a sense you cant bottleneck them.

Extra RAM. It's going to be a while before the apps/software catches up with having two more cores. Meanwhile even old stuff can benefit from extra memory. Also see it as more future proof as you won't get the lame ass excuses from Samsung about it not having enough RAM to run whatever the latest release of Android is like we got with ICS and the Epic 4G.

XxLostSoulxX said:
1. Well the whole android cant handle 4 cores i think is false because its derived from Linux and i know those who use 4,6,8 core processor's and use Linux. so if android isn't im sure its all in code is all.
2. More Ram does mean things will run much faster. For Example: playing gta 4 with 4GB of DDR3 Ram @ 1333MHz plays decent but my pc setup that plays gta 4 with 8Gb of DDR2 Ram @ 1333MHz plays faster and loads faster but GPU does factor those speeds too so, in a sense you cant bottleneck them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've misunderstood. Android can use 4 cores, of course. What it can't do is use them effectively in a way that creates any sort of advantage. But just as a mention, being derived from Linux source does not make it a full-fledged Linux OS by far.
And on your second point, again, you're comparing to a full PC operating system. Up until now, apps have been designed for phones with far less than 1GB of ram. It really depends on how you use your phone as to how much ram is needed. If you have a video editor running in the background, while playing pandora, and emulating Mario 64 you'll need more than simply browsing the web. But the processor, bus speeds, operating system, etc. all factor into how effectively more ram can be used. For Example: A 32 bit computer can't even use more than 4GB of ram. More ram does not simply mean 'much' more more speed, there are many other limiting factors. You can throw all the ram you want at a netbook, it will never run GTA4.
Off-Topic Edit: I vote 2GB ram over Quad-Core.

I guess then the only thing that will "improve", not that the int'l lacks of, is on the multitasking??
The few videos I saw, they were really fast but that's of course without all the apps that a normal user install. Like I have 38 apps install on my phone and most of the time I open between 9 to 13 apps everyday. Most of the time I have to close it...I guess more for the habit of doing it and of courses need it when playing games.
I read the answer and I kinda feel its true, maybe android is not yet ready for such hardware just yet, does it feels the hardware manufacture is going too fast compare to the software?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA

lepapirriky said:
I guess then the only thing that will "improve", not that the int'l lacks of, is on the multitasking??
The few videos I saw, they were really fast but that's of course without all the apps that a normal user install. Like I have 38 apps install on my phone and most of the time I open between 9 to 13 apps everyday. Most of the time I have to close it...I guess more for the habit of doing it and of courses need it when playing games.
I read the answer and I kinda feel its true, maybe android is not yet ready for such hardware just yet, does it feels the hardware manufacture is going too fast compare to the software?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There will be improvement between the dual-core, faster processor, and more ram, rest assured!
Although I still recommend closing apps unnecessarily opened to save battery.

2 A15s > 4 A9s.
Also, the A15 use less power. I'd take the 2 GBs of RAM with the newest CPU anyday.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

theking_13 said:
2 A15s > 4 A9s. Also, the A15 use less power. I'd take the 2 GBs of RAM with the newest CPU anyday.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+9000

RandomKing said:
Here's my thoughts:
1. Still on the Epic 4G I've never had any real lag.
2. Lack of ram can stall a device, but an excess of ram will not make it faster.
3. Mobile quad-cores are new and untested.
4. Android is not designed for quad-core processors.
5. The dual-core US version should easily match the quad-core international.
6. More ram means more easily multitasking/app-switching.
Check out this article.
Amazing gpu? The Galaxy S I opposed the iPhone 4. The Epic 4G has a better gpu than the iPhone 4, the PowerVR SGX 540 vs the iPhone's PowerVR SGX 535. Just thought I'd mention it since you're in an Epic 4G forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't have any lag on our epic 4g's? What ROM are you running? I've tried every rom out there and am friends with several other rooted epic owners, none of our phones are remotely comparable to the modern phones like s2 and above.
I'd love to see a video of you opening and running netflix, facebook, web browsing on chrome and stock, or whatever if you have time because this blows my mind. i'm doing something horribly wrong.

Too bad we don't have a samsung developed a15
I don't know why but I don't like qualcomm chips
Also whenever I hear snapdragon I automatically think worse than hummingbird
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

I would take the dual core Krait hands down because it is designed from cortex a15. More instruction per clock is better than stacking cores which a phone doesn't even use. I think the 2 gb of ram has more performance advantage.
They also increased the memory bandwidth with new SOC by adding a new dual channel memory controller which the exynos had all along... They fixed alot of the shortcoming of snapdragon processor with the this gen product

gtuansdiamm said:
[...]Also whenever I hear snapdragon I automatically think worse than hummingbird[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because Hummingbirds rape Snapdragons. See the following:
​

Either way if you want LTE at the moment you are stuck with dual core. So the 2GB of RAM is a nice enhancement. The EVO 1x ended up as two models the 1X which is quad core with no LTE and the 1XL which is dual core with LTE.
Sent from my PantechP4100 using xda premium

RandomKing said:
Amazing gpu? The Galaxy S I opposed the iPhone 4. The Epic 4G has a better gpu than the iPhone 4, the PowerVR SGX 540 vs the iPhone's PowerVR SGX 535. Just thought I'd mention it since you're in an Epic 4G forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where the hell did the epic4g or the iPhone 4 come into the question? My point was that iPhones actually make use of their gpu's better than android phones do, so the difference between the quad core and the dual core gs3 should be minimal in that regard, at least for a while.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA

noobnl said:
I would take the dual core Krait hands down because it is designed from cortex a15.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is wrong.
The Krait is very much designed from the Cortex A9. While it shares similarities with the A15, it is not quite as powerful.
Krait is about 60% of the way between the A9 and A15.

jnadke said:
This is wrong.
The Krait is very much designed from the Cortex A9. While it shares similarities with the A15, it is not quite as powerful.
Krait is about 60% of the way between the A9 and A15.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, where'd you even get that from? Krait is slightly below an A15, Qualcomm derived their design from it. Yes, its not a true A15 core. But its the best right now in production.
Qualcomm has a license to mess around with ARMs designs and make their own CPUs, not just copy and slap an "A4" on them like Apple does.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

theking_13 said:
No, where'd you even get that from? Krait is slightly below an A15, Qualcomm derived their design from it. Yes, its not a true A15 core. But its the best right now in production.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting how someone "Likes" wrong information.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4940/qualcomm-new-snapdragon-s4-msm8960-krait-architecture
Designing a processor takes an extremely long amount of time. A15 was just barely released a few months ago. No way Krait was designed from it.
Now, Krait borrows some features from A15, but it's missing some important features as well. Krait does feature an extended instruction pipeline over the A9 (11 vs 9 cycles), but it's nowhere near as long as the A15 (15 cycles). Strictly speaking, lengthening a pipeline is less work than shortening it, hence Krait was not designed from the A15.
It's more likely Krait is an evolution of the Scorpion than anything.
As far as Apple, they have no place in this conversation, but if you must.... while they do have a "processor-only" license with ARM, they do farm out to a company to change some transistor signaling to make it more power efficient (they later bought them).
2 years ago, Apple bought Freescale, the only remaining PowerPC processor design company. (aside: The defense industry was largely concerned, as they rely on PowerPC for their power-efficient but high-speed applications). Anyhow, I wouldn't be surprised if they have an architecture license now so they can design their own ARM processors, Qualcomm-style. The main advantage would be integrating LTE radios like Qualcomm does.
Coincidentally it takes about 2 years to fully design a processor.

[Q] Which is better for Snapdragon 600 or Exynos 5

When considering which Galaxy S4 to buy I'm not sure which is better the US or International version.
US:
Snapdragon 600
1.9 Ghz
Quad Core Krait 300.
or
International:
Exynos5
1.6 Ghz Octal Core
Quad Core Cortex A15 / Quad Core A7
Which is better in terms of performance?
Are they relatively the same performance since both use a quad core for high performance?
Which is better for gaming?
Which is better for battery life?

Exynos is better in every aspect
S4 INFO

Better in sucking battery, yes! But that's it. You can expect development to be absolute crap as No developer wants to develope for exynos.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

Read this and educate yourself
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2191850
If your going to troll at least get your facts straight
Exynos will preform better and save more battery than the snapdragon 600 or almost any android device for that matter and he didn't ask for dev support comparisons
S4 INFO

Imo, real world battery tests and endurances is better than reading those facts. Tbh, it's too early to conclude which is better. Trully, exynos may sound better and more power efficient based on paper, but as of now, we aren't really absolutely sure that the s600 is far left behind. I think, the best for now is to wait for future actual owners of the official S4 to test the performance and battery life themselves..
Sent from my HTC One S4 using xda-developers app

it's too early to tell, yes.
but I'm sure the Exynos Octa will perform as good as the snapdragon
and probably save more battery, since that's the whole point lol
PLUS it has a much newer and better GPU which is the reason I'm most interested in it

PLUG313 said:
it's too early to tell, yes.
but I'm sure the Exynos Octa will perform as good as the snapdragon
and probably save more battery, since that's the whole point lol
PLUS it has a much newer and better GPU which is the reason I'm most interested in it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's not so new and better like you say. the new gs4 has a powervr sgx544 wich is less performant than the adreno 320 of the snapdragon 600 http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.jsp?base=gpu

Many, MANY, of the top developers have already said they will not develop for Exynos. That would end that choice for me.

Omar56 said:
it's not so new and better like you say. the new gs4 has a powervr sgx544 wich is less performant than the adreno 320 of the snapdragon 600 http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.jsp?base=gpu
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how odd, I thought it was way better from what I read around the forums
._____________.

crawlgsx said:
Many, MANY, of the top developers have already said they will not develop for Exynos. That would end that choice for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May i ask why? Sorry but i'm new to the samsung forums and don't have any idea why do the developers of exynos were withdrawing to support such a beast processor..
Sent from my HTC One S4 using xda-developers app

Samsung won't release proper sources to help in development
But don't let that guy fool you we have dev support just not as much as say a Sony or HTC device
S4 INFO

samsung does show reluctance in helping developers especially with exynos!
exynos 5 did gave an impression, with multiple cores for battery saving.. but the real verdict will be available as soon as phone is released!!
snapdragon is a beast, no doubt in that!
Qualcomm will surely release sources so no problem with development of snapdragon s4!
I'm sure for such high activity device, CM will be there but the maintainers are no longer making CM, that's a bad news!!
I don't understand samsung's problem with open source, even in mid range phones like y,grand etc they have put broadcom chip with no available sources which makes CM development very hard for them!

Yup

js2892 said:
samsung does show reluctance in helping developers especially with exynos!
exynos 5 did gave an impression, with multiple cores for battery saving.. but the real verdict will be available as soon as phone is released!!
snapdragon is a beast, no doubt in that!
Qualcomm will surely release sources so no problem with development of snapdragon s4!
I'm sure for such high activity device, CM will be there but the maintainers are no longer making CM, that's a bad news!!
I don't understand samsung's problem with open source, even in mid range phones like y,grand etc they have put broadcom chip with no available sources which makes CM development very hard for them!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think Samsung is afraid of giving up their edge.. samsung never uses the mainstream parts.. they developed AMOLED when everyone went LCD, they went quad when everyone else went dual, and octa when everyone else went quad, while others stayed close to stock, Samsung made some awesome innovations in its unappreciated touchwiz that fixed lots of missing elements of its competitors (toggles in dropbar, delete apps from drawer, task killer inside long-press, divx/xvid support, exfat, swype, customizable gestures, etc)
Samsung doesn't want its competition to be able to take anything from it. the competition doesn't have anything to lose, as everyone else is pretty much doing the same thing in terms of the same screen given to every phone, and the same processor in every phone.
just my thoughts into it, its better for me if they were, but i think that's why they aren't so open.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

mikegonzalez2k said:
When considering which Galaxy S4 to buy I'm not sure which is better the US or International version.
US:
Snapdragon 600
1.9 Ghz
Quad Core Krait 300.
or
International:
Exynos5
1.6 Ghz Octal Core
Quad Core Cortex A15 / Quad Core A7
Which is better in terms of performance?
Are they relatively the same performance since both use a quad core for high performance?
Which is better for gaming?
Which is better for battery life?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in my experience and study;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snapdragon

x102x96x said:
in my experience and study;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snapdragon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do you mean the exynos is superior?

essentially they are both QUAD core chips right?, one having a high power sibling to offload heavy duty work, and the other just being heavy duty.
So if this was the case the 1.9ghz chip would be faster anyway right?

NuclearEMP said:
essentially they are both QUAD core chips right?, one having a high power sibling to offload heavy duty work, and the other just being heavy duty.
So if this was the case the 1.9ghz chip would be faster anyway right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually no the krait cores in the snapdragon 600 have to compromise performance to save battery whereas Exynos doesn't it's alot faster + has better gpu all that while saving more battery
S4 INFO

TingTingin said:
Samsung won't release proper sources to help in development
But don't let that guy fool you we have dev support just not as much as say a Sony or HTC device
S4 INFO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just depends on what part of Dev is important to you.
Exynos S4 will NOT get official CM support, but I am sure there will be lots of half baked themed TW roms if that is what you like.

crawlgsx said:
Just depends on what part of Dev is important to you.
Exynos S4 will NOT get official CM support, but I am sure there will be lots of half baked themed TW roms if that is what you like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Team hacksung have come out as saying that no one person speaks for the group
www.androidpolice.com/2013/03/19/te...ther-confirms-nor-denies-plans-for-cm-on-gs4/
I.e it may very well attain cm support
And as for the half baked cm roms that's also incorrect actually touchwiz roms are excellent
S4 INFO