Hi (sorry for length of the post!),
I am on the verge of getting new tablet.
I have good, old iPad 1 but unfortunately it is more toy than tool.
I have decided that device like Transformer (hybrid tablet/laptop) would be perfect for what I do. Till few days ago I was all set to wait for such a device with Win8 on-board... but now I am not so sure anymore.
Perhaps you will be able to help me make a good choice.
Currently during day I use at least two PC's with Win7 (and Windows Live services) + Google Chrome and iPad.
As much as I like iPad I hate that it can not sync (in full) like two PC's and especially Chrome (not to mention the lack of keyboard).
Because as I wrote I use Live services I was thinking that by the end of the year I should get a Windows Phone device (few of the things I need to know about WP are here, can you help? : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1643996), Win8 for desktop and tablet with Win8 onboard.
From what I read Win8 will be much more "closed" when compared to prev. vers of Windows.
Questions are:
1. Will both x86 and ARM version force user to use only MS app store (no more free, unrestricted download from the internet like today? - can it really be true???)
2. Will Win8 have geo-restrictions like currently Windows Phone (got your Live ID assigned to USA -> than you can not get any software from App Store UK. Even iOS is less problematic here).
3. Flash support? Got myself nice VPN... at the moment Hulu works perfectly on Win7 and via Splashtop on my iPad. What about Windows 8?
4. As I wrote I use Google Chrome as a browser. It is quick, it syncs in a very good way, etc. I can not get it for iOS (one of the reasons to drop the iOS)... I can have it on Android tablet (although I am not sure about sync capabilities) but I was hoping I will be able to get the proper, full Chrome for my Win8 desktop and tablet.
5. VPN support on Windows8? Any? Will I be able to access Netflix (as I do now) ob both Win8 desktop and Win8 tablet.
6. Do you think tablet with Win8 will differ in a way system is open (I am not sure if I use correct words for that) between x86 and ARM ver? I do understand that if I will get ARM device all software I will get will have to be "wrote" specifically for ARM and opposite... (unless x86 will have no problem in emulating ARM as it will be more powerful platform).
7. In another words... is it worth to wait for Windows 8 on tablet or I will do most of the stuff I want on Android ICS device?
All insights are welcome!
Sry, didn't have the time to answer all of your questions but hopefully some parts will be clearer in some minutes ^^
1.) no, x86 will work just like a win7 pc nowadays. Not quite sure, but ARM will be restricted to the new marketplace/store (correct me if I'm wrong)
2.) Don't know for sure, but I think it will connect your Live Accout (in W8 called Microsoft Account) will have a connection to your location, but just for the store - not for downloaded applications.
3.) On x86 (tablets) I don't see any problems in using flash. ARM may not be having flash at release, but I think it'll come fast.
4.) If Google is willing to release Chrome for Windows 8 RT (the ARM version), you will be able to install it on all your W8 devices. But you could buy a x86 tablet and the desktop version of Chrome will run.
So, have to go...
Some last words: Tablets with x86 are just like a desktop pc for win7 with a touchscreen, a new look and feel and in one little case
galtom said:
1. Will both x86 and ARM version force user to use only MS app store (no more free, unrestricted download from the internet like today? - can it really be true???)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro apps are restricted, and the ARM version primarily only supports METRO apps. So an ARM version will force you unless you: Have a developer account, Are on a Domain, or Use an items signed by a trusted cert provider and make some registry settings.
x86 has the same restrictions on METRO apps, but can run any x86 item (all existing windows applications) without restriction.
galtom said:
2. Will Win8 have geo-restrictions like currently Windows Phone (got your Live ID assigned to USA -> than you can not get any software from App Store UK. Even iOS is less problematic here).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likely yes. You would need to use a proxy to access other stores.
galtom said:
3. Flash support? Got myself nice VPN... at the moment Hulu works perfectly on Win7 and via Splashtop on my iPad. What about Windows 8?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 IE10 yes, I use Hulu on my 8 device right now. Metro IE10 will not support plugins (no flash, silverlight, or active x). You will need an 'app', or a site supporting HTML5 for IE10 to work.
galtom said:
4. As I wrote I use Google Chrome as a browser. It is quick, it syncs in a very good way, etc. I can not get it for iOS (one of the reasons to drop the iOS)... I can have it on Android tablet (although I am not sure about sync capabilities) but I was hoping I will be able to get the proper, full Chrome for my Win8 desktop and tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works fine on an x86 tablet. It will be up to Google on whether or not they provide a Metro version. At this time there should be no restriction in place to prevent them from doing so if they desire to.
galtom said:
5. VPN support on Windows8? Any? Will I be able to access Netflix (as I do now) ob both Win8 desktop and Win8 tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 yes. Metro requires an App. I use this today on Windows 8.
galtom said:
6. Do you think tablet with Win8 will differ in a way system is open (I am not sure if I use correct words for that) between x86 and ARM ver? I do understand that if I will get ARM device all software I will get will have to be "wrote" specifically for ARM and opposite... (unless x86 will have no problem in emulating ARM as it will be more powerful platform).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 is completely open. ARM is restricted to things that install on ARM, and in most cases to things that are acquired through the METRO store (except for the exceptions listed in item 1
galtom said:
7. In another words... is it worth to wait for Windows 8 on tablet or I will do most of the stuff I want on Android ICS device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are going to buy a convertible windows 8 tablet, so it can be a laptop & a tablet, or if you are going to buy an x86 tablet, I would consider waiting for a windows 8 compatible device (expect sometime late summer / early fall.)
If you are going to buy a Win RT tablet, it is up to you, but I would probably buy a 200-300 android tablet, and then sell it and buy a windows one if/when it becomes a compelling device for you.
most of your questions have been answered, but im going to add a question (for you) an answer it
Should I buy a tablet now?
No, is the answer.
MS and its hardware partners have made some very interesting gains in the touch technology, not to mention Intels gains in performance / low watt CPUs.
if you buy now you will be missing out on some great tech especially around touch screens so it really would be a bit daft to buy just now, you also run the risk of it not supporting Win 8 completely as well. Seriously, wait it out until Win 8 comes, if you must get an older current gen device (perhaps price constrained?) then it will be cheaper then too
First of all thank you all for your time (and answers).
Since (as usual) answers to questions raise new questions... we... here we go
hanswurst24 said:
1.) no, x86 will work just like a win7 pc nowadays. Not quite sure, but ARM will be restricted to the new marketplace/store (correct me if I'm wrong)
2.) Don't know for sure, but I think it will connect your Live Accout (in W8 called Microsoft Account) will have a connection to your location, but just for the store - not for downloaded applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I am not so sure... and I think even for MS "all this" might be a problem.
On one hand they should not change "philosophy" of Windows because no one would swap Win7 to Win8 if they would have to buy all software form 1 (or few) stores only).
On the other hand Windows Phone is showing the way they want to/would like to go (which company would not want to make extra cash on apps the way Apple, Google and Amazon are doing??? - to find balance will not be easy).
All this shows (in my opinion) another problem - system fragmentation. Only iOS is safe as Apple has full control over system and devices (but THANK GOD - is not that stubborn on geo/market restrictions as Google or Ms).
If you remember how confusing for customers it was with Vista and Win7 versions imagine what will happen now?
To be honest (if those versions RT and x86) will differ so much in terms of practicability, options, openness, functions of hardware I cant imagine how everything will be introduced, market and advertised in order for "Mr Average Joe" to comprehend and not run back next day to the shop with complaints - about system, software, compatibility, etc...
Looks like a pure nightmare and I think this is the reason (they do not know what to do exactly with all this mess) we have so little information on how it all is going to work and c0-work with each other :-(
2). You see... as far as I know if I would buy Windows Phone (or RT Win8 tablet - by the end of the year) I will be limited to apps available only in my location. If Live ID is assigned to UK than forget (even free!) apps for US market (and others). In my case it is a disaster... For my pleasure and entertainment I use apps (on iOS and Android [if I can find them - it is way more difficult than on iOS] from UK, US and Poland.
Installing Netflix or BBC iPlayer on a dive form other parts of the world on iOS is very simple and does not require any hacking/rooting/jaibrakes/etc/.
On Android one has to know how to root the device and than simply search the net... not alwys finding what he/she wants.
On Windows Phone if you create new Live ID (like on iOS), switching those equals HARD RESET of the device.
If that will be the case with Win8 RT... that is a very bad news! Even if x86 ver will have less restrisctions those news will be bad for ARM manufacturers as they will get like "handicapped" system when compared to x86... - would you be happy about it if you were Nvidia or Qualcomm?
hanswurst24 said:
3.) On x86 (tablets) I don't see any problems in using flash. ARM may not be having flash at release, but I think it'll come fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe it will, maybe it will not... question are:
- will it at all?
- how difficult it will be to install (root? bootloader? other restrictions? unauthorized software when compared to what your Live ID has bought from the shop?)
- how many AVERAGE people will want to go into all this mess?
michiganenginerd said:
Metro apps are restricted, and the ARM version primarily only supports METRO apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... if there will DESKTOP mode on Win8 RT don't you think it will limit its general appeal. If it will be so restricted, without desktop mode... why would you want it over Android?
michiganenginerd said:
x86 has the same restrictions on METRO apps, but can run any x86 item (all existing windows applications) without restriction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you are right... this move from MS would mean that hardly anyone will buy ARM version of the system -> ARM devices with Win8 will not sell. If that would be the case what would be the point for ARM ver of Win8 in first place if no sane manufacturer would invest money to produce devices that can not compete with x86 devices because of system they have. Unless they are very, VERY cheap (looking at cost of Android devices is not making me hopeful in this matter) or if people do not much care for the system but for batt. life - again why would you want Win8 over Android or (well established) iOS. It is worth to remember that it will be even more difficult to win customers who already own Android or iOS device - there is a good chance that they have spend quite a lot of cash so far on apps.
QUESTION (off topic): if you got iOS, purchased apps are assigned to account, not device -> meaning if you buy an app for iPad 1 you can still use it on iPad3. How dose it work on Windows Phone and Android devices?
michiganenginerd said:
Likely yes. You would need to use a proxy to access other stores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Proxy/VPN is not a problem - problem is in Live ID that is assigned to a specific country during creation and registration. In this case your IP does not matter. It is the same with Google Play. Once you have your Google account you can connect to the store form any location but it will not allow you ti install software not in your market (even if you can see it).
michiganenginerd said:
x86 IE10 yes, I use Hulu on my 8 device right now. Metro IE10 will not support plugins (no flash, silverlight, or active x). You will need an 'app', or a site supporting HTML5 for IE10 to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if it will be so difficult with getting those apps it might influence sales and opinions outside of the US.
It looks to me that if only manufacturers of x86 devices will resolve problem with heating and active cooling (which imho have no please on tablet or hybrid laptop) it will be the only ver of Win8 that will make sense to buy.
Shame, as I would love to have "all this freedom" on an ARM device - I do not need computing power on mobile device but I also do not want to be limited in what I can install and from where/who.
michiganenginerd said:
It works fine on an x86 tablet. It will be up to Google on whether or not they provide a Metro version. At this time there should be no restriction in place to prevent them from doing so if they desire to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What happens now 9on x86 Win8) if you try to add shortcut to Chrome on Metro UI? It dose not shows... or what?
If so, you mean you can lunch any software from desktop but not from metro screen? Does not make much sense... does it?
I understand that a "Metro app" will be easier to use and more touch friendly that current range of apps designed for mouse but still... it should be my choice. If I want to use it let me start it from any interface.
michiganenginerd said:
If you are going to buy a convertible windows 8 tablet, so it can be a laptop & a tablet, or if you are going to buy an x86 tablet, I would consider waiting for a windows 8 compatible device (expect sometime late summer / early fall.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am considering buying now something like TF Prime or TF 300 - it might do what I need. And with some outside help (perhaps from here) beside usual stuff I should be able to get VPN client, Hulu +, Netflix and BBC on it. I am not worried about text editors as there should be quite few of those that will work with docx files and skydrive and hotmail.
And if Win8 will be a hit (I already bought Vista on a first day of sale - never again the same mistake! ) than I will consider getting it for my desktop and perhaps swapping a hybrid mobile device.
Does it make sense?
michiganenginerd said:
If you are going to buy a Win RT tablet, it is up to you, but I would probably buy a 200-300 android tablet, and then sell it and buy a windows one if/when it becomes a compelling device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly what I wrote above .
dazza9075 said:
most of your questions have been answered, but im going to add a question (for you) an answer it
Should I buy a tablet now?
No, is the answer.
MS and its hardware partners have made some very interesting gains in the touch technology, not to mention Intels gains in performance / low watt CPUs.
if you buy now you will be missing out on some great tech especially around touch screens so it really would be a bit daft to buy just now, you also run the risk of it not supporting Win 8 completely as well. Seriously, wait it out until Win 8 comes, if you must get an older current gen device (perhaps price constrained?) then it will be cheaper then too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... I see your points, but...
It is still long wait for Win8, devices, decent reviews, all the hype and prices to settle and actual (physical) choice in the shop. I remember all the hype about competition to iPad 1 when it came out - it took almost a over year for devices to get to shops (remember CES and MWC in 2010 and 2011) - it is 2012 and not all devices are here.
How long it took Xoom to get to shops outside USA...?
Although Win8 (RT as well???) will go on sale after holidays... time for actual devices with the system (laptops, ultrabooks, netbooks, desktops, all in one PC's, tablets and hybrid tablets [have I missed anything?]) to get to the shop is a whole different story.
Meaning.... if it will take another (at least) 6-8 months to have an actual choice in the shops is it worth to wait and suffer in the mean time? But if I do get a TF300/Prime now - will I need a Win8 replacement for it?
sounds like you already made your mind up what you want to do and that Win 8 will not be as good as we think.
So perhaps save yourself to hassle and don't bother with it.
As for buying now that's up to you, but Win 8 wont be that long, hardware will be out soon and if you don't want that new hardware the older stuff will be a lot cheaper. 8 months after launch is way to far down the line, MS will be bending OEMs over backwards to get hardware out for launch.
You would be completely Bonkers buying now, we are about to get an RC of win 8, ARM will be getting developed in parallel, OEMs will have hardware taped out already to test the OS, which is something Apple doesn't have to worry too much about as they build the OS and hardware around one another where as Windows needs to support it all hence the longer development cycle and early gear in the wild
IF you get something now, there is no guarantee it will work or work well with Win RT or x86, so yes, potentially you will need to get new gear, and of course Win RT is OEM only meaning you can only get it with hardware soo.... you choice I guess.
As Dazza said it sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind. But in case there is still value in conversation.
galtom said:
Why not let ARM do what x86 does
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exisiting applications written for windows cannot just run on a ARM device. They need to be modified to support and recompiled.
Existing applications written for desktops and laptops, even if they could run with no changes, would result in a poor experience.
You have two types of devices: Windows & Windows RT
You have two types of applications: Metro & Classic
RT devices are low power tablets running metro only.
Windows devices are likely to be ultrabooks, convertible laptops, and desktops running what they run today.
If you want a tablet, Win RT is a tablet with a full copy of office and a fun interface that will do what an iPad or an android tablet does, but is a device aimed at content consumption, not generation.
If you want a hybrid, you'll be be buying an x86 device, at least in the near future.
Not letting Diablo II & HALO run on Windows RT isn't just an arbitrary restriction. It won't run. It wasn't written, compiled, and tested on an ARM architecture.
galtom said:
Restrictions / curation:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OSX is adding sandboxing and store requirements over time. Expect in 10 years you have to buy apps from the Mac Store.
Microsoft is heading down the same path, at least for Metro applications. Expect in 10 years, consumers buy most apps from the Windows Store.
Is that a good thing? For some consumers probably. For a developer maybe. For an xda-reader not so much.
galtom said:
Flash Support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for flash, it will be very unlikely to come to Windows RT.
Win RT browser will not support plugins.
Adobe has ended new development of Flash on ARM to focus on HTML5.
galtom said:
Why would I buy Win8 RT over android if it is restricted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would you choose Android over an iPad?
You choose what is the most compelling to you.
Maybe you like METRO, want domain support, or full native MS Office.
galtom said:
It is still long wait for Win8 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't that long. Release Candidate is first week of June.
I am running it on an AMD E-350 acer tablet I bought for $300, and I use it over my Transformer.
I hold onto my transformer still to use with Citrix Reciever,
Otherwise I use a laptop, an E-350 hybrid, and an A100 as my devices today.
Expect end of summer that 5 point devices, using the new touch technology go on sale.
Expect late fall devices are sold for the holidays.
What you do is up to you as an individual about what is compelling.
For me I can't wait to buy device like the IdeaPad Yoga. I'll switch to using that and a 7" tablet.
If you are happy with Android, the Transformer is fine, I just find myself using the 7" or a full laptop. I rarely use the 10".
You sound fairly unhappy about Win 8's existance. I'm happy to have more choices.
For me, I will reduce my 4 devices to two, one of which I'm excited about. I won't be likely to buy an RT device, but I expect many will.
We aren't the average user that is being targeted by an RT Device. My parents use a 10" tablet for 90% of their internet. They get on a laptop or desktop for writing long emails, uploading photos & using office. If their tablet had widi to wirelessly throw the screen to a monitor, and could use office, they would probably never use their laptop.
Sales People & Relationship Managers that carry around iPads or Androids also can get a device that works with their corporate domain, and has full office on it. For many that would meet their needs.
But just because Windows RT doesn't meet the needs of an average xda user, doesn't mean it fails for the millions of people using netbooks & 5 year old laptops to browse the web, pay bills online, and occasionally use office.
michiganenginerd said:
As Dazza said it sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind. But in case there is still value in conversation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that is true but only to a point.
At the moment I think I will give ICS on Asus TF a try and byt the end of the year if x86 tablets with W8 will get good reviews I think I will jump the ship.
My concern (I had Asus 1201n with Atom 330 onboard and have Samsung NC10) is performance of current Atom chips - is it really better (forget about watching smooth YT video on NC10 - and it is not a problem on iPad!).
Heat! - cant have tablet with active cooling system.
Weight! - the likes of current fliptop netbook/tablets its just not nice (heavy and hot).
Battery life - 8h is a must (basically x86 W8 tablet [with a dock] has to be able to work (videos, internet, e-mail - nothing very heavy) to work 1 day
michiganenginerd said:
Originally Posted by galtom
Why not let ARM do what x86 does
Exisiting applications written for windows cannot just run on a ARM device. They need to be modified to support and recompiled.
Existing applications written for desktops and laptops, even if they could run with no changes, would result in a poor experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not exactly what I have asked or at least not what I meant.
It is clear from me that x86 and ARM are two different platforms and I have never, ever expected old software to work on ARM devices.
But! If x86 can have both desktop and Metro why limit W-RT? If someone wants to create an ARM app that will support both modes, if users will want to use it...? Why not let us have the option to do so.
Second is the limitation of the sources of the software.
I can not imagine that W-RT will not get jailbroken as iOS is. But since iOS i way ahead of Windows and there is lots of Android devices on the market I can not see this as a PLUS point for W-RT, quite opposite.
W-RT (and devices with this system) will have to compete with:
- iOS: that is well marketed, well known, still cool, less restricted (no problem in swapping iTunes accounts), people already spend cash on software for their iPads, there is Office for iOS + lots of other business & entertainment software - why would current Apple customers ditch iPads?
Why would and iOS device owner said - OOO, another closed and restricted enviromet just looking different - I want it! - somehow I do not see that happening
- Android: envelope of openness that surrounds Android, no problem with root, community support, ROMS, apps from Google (or from wherever you want), probably a bit lower prices of devices, as iOS (in most cases) works with all Microsoft services + points as in iOS - folks have already spent cash on software, some devices are already in second or third generation
- Windows 8 x86 it has everything W-RT has + lots of more. Beats iOS and Android in terms of software availability, it is basically what you now have on desktop and laptop but with the proper support for touch (when you need it), if Intel&Friends will solve problems of weight/heat/battery life and price range will not be as for current line of Windows tablets it looks like a winner to me.
Having said (wrote) all that - why would Joe go to the shop and said:
"Gimme' that Asus with Windows RT" - instead of iOS, Android or Windows 8 device???
michiganenginerd said:
If you want a tablet, Win RT is a tablet with a full copy of office and a fun interface that will do what an iPad or an android tablet does, but is a device aimed at content consumption, not generation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Office for RT and Office for x86 - two different things :-(
+ Office for iOS should be here any moment (I thought it is already out). As much as MS would love to ignore iOS and keep Office out of iPAD I do not think they can. how many millions devices is already out there? If only 25% of those people would want one of Office products... its quite a lot of cash...
+ to all points above - there is also a question of price of the software for all platforms and system itself.
What's more, considering how big profit Apple is making on iPad it seems as lots of room for price adjustment once Windows8 & RT devices are out.
michiganenginerd said:
If you want a hybrid, you'll be be buying an x86 device, at least in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite true, but since I miss this sort of functionality every day (and I doubt I am only one) why not go for TF300 or TF Prime now?
There is nothing wrong with those devices and when I look at ICS and what RT will bring to table I do not see any reasonable points that would convince me to wait (that was the reason I wrote here - to see I my line of thinking is correct. So far (unfortunately for W-RT) you have not wrote that I am wrong or that I have misunderstood something about Windows RT.
The only thing worth considering are devices with x86 Windows onboard but:
- its still few months (in the mean time I could give ICS a try?
- they are unknown in terms of battery/heat/weight and price!
Windows RT seems like a great idea that was f...up during creation. If Windows RT would be first on the market (before iPad with iOS and Android) - no problem. They could do all that and people would still get it... nowadays, whey MS is trying to chase others... I do not really see it happening with Windows 8 RT looking as it is.
It is pretty similar to situation with Windows Phone. It is not a bad system... but it is not better either. In some case is like or a bit worse than iOS in some it is like or a bit worse than Android - but it is not BETTER.
And just look how iPhone and Android phones are selling. look where is manufacturers focus.
Samsung/LG/Sony/HTC - how many Android models and how many WP models?
I got strange felling that W-RT will share the same fate. It will be there but not as any threat to iOS or Android, unlike x86 Windows 8 if Intel&Co will deliver.
michiganenginerd said:
OSX is adding sandboxing and store requirements over time. Expect in 10 years you have to buy apps from the Mac Store.
Microsoft is heading down the same path, at least for Metro applications. Expect in 10 years, consumers buy most apps from the Windows Store.[/qoute]
Yes, and there is nothing wrong with this... especially that (I hope) with x86 version we will always keep the choice where we want our software to get from.
Looking at the history (of thing in general) I can not remember 1 good exaple where introduction of more and additional restrictions actually worked well. It is against human nature.
If in 10-15 Windows will become completely shut... than Linux (or something else) might raise its head and actually win hearts of customers - like Apple did not so far ago!
michiganenginerd said:
Is that a good thing? For some consumers probably. For a developer maybe. For an xda-reader not so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can not agree! It is bad for every one - even developers as they will be forced to accept any policy and conditions from Microsoft (similar to what it is right now with Apple ).
Limiting the choice is never good for anyone beside "The Man" in control.
michiganenginerd said:
As for flash, it will be very unlikely to come to Windows RT.
Win RT browser will not support plugins.
Adobe has ended new development of Flash on ARM to focus on HTML5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And with recent news that RT will not support other browser but its own, best it is another point against this system.
It looks to me as MS is doing all it actually can to make it bad.
michiganenginerd said:
Why would you choose Android over an iPad?
You choose what is the most compelling to you.
Maybe you like METRO, want domain support, or full native MS Office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EXACTLY! If all above is true... who is going to get W-RT???
It will sell but only to people with no idea what they are buying, who dont really need it and who will not really use it (will not buy additional apps). Because if they do, if that will think before they buy... W-RT will be the last on the list (unless it will be the cheapest - which I doubt!)
michiganenginerd said:
It isn't that long. Release Candidate is first week of June.
I am running it on an AMD E-350 acer tablet I bought for $300, and I use it over my Transformer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only there would be an x86 ver of transformer with no fans to cool it down I would already be on it and this thread would not exist.
I just wanted to make sure that I am not missing something about Windows RT or situation in general.
I hold onto my transformer still to use with Citrix Reciever,
Otherwise I use a laptop, an E-350 hybrid, and an A100 as my devices today.
Expect end of summer that 5 point devices, using the new touch technology go on sale.
Expect late fall devices are sold for the holidays.
What you do is up to you as an individual about what is compelling.
For me I can't wait to buy device like the IdeaPad Yoga. I'll switch to using that and a 7" tablet.
If you are happy with Android, the Transformer is fine, I just find myself using the 7" or a full laptop. I rarely use the 10".
You sound fairly unhappy about Win 8's existance. I'm happy to have more choices.
For me, I will reduce my 4 devices to two, one of which I'm excited about. I won't be likely to buy an RT device, but I expect many will.
We aren't the average user that is being targeted by an RT Device. My parents use a 10" tablet for 90% of their internet. They get on a laptop or desktop for writing long emails, uploading photos & using office. If their tablet had widi to wirelessly throw the screen to a monitor, and could use office, they would probably never use their laptop.
Sales People & Relationship Managers that carry around iPads or Androids also can get a device that works with their corporate domain, and has full office on it. For many that would meet their needs.
But just because Windows RT doesn't meet the needs of an average xda user, doesn't mean it fails for the millions of people using netbooks & 5 year old laptops to browse the web, pay bills online, and occasionally use office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Short version:
W-RT is not for targeted at You, I, or many xda-readers. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a place or that the option existing is bad.
galtom said:
Heat, Weight, Battery Life!
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Click to collapse
Intel is getting closer, but you just can't pull off an iPad size / weight device with 8h+ battery life on x86. The tech isn't there yet.
galtom said:
If x86 can have both desktop and Metro why limit W-RT?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
W-RT is OEM only. It is meant to be an 'appliance' not a PC.
Whether you agree with the approach or not, the justifications for limiting are somewhat explained here:
Microsoft's Windows chief Steven Sinofsky:
If we enabled the broad porting of existing code we would fail to deliver on our commitment to longer battery life, predictable performance, and especially a reliable experience over time. The conventions used by today's Windows apps do not necessarily provide this, whether it is background processes, polling loops, timers, system hooks, startup programs, registry changes, kernel mode code, admin rights, unsigned drivers, add-ins, or a host of other common techniques.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...ndows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx
galtom said:
I can not imagine that W-RT will not get jailbroken as iOS is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Less immediate need to jailbreak it. There are supported methods of sideloading, but I am sure there will be other people who extend it beyond that.
galtom said:
why would Joe go to the shop and said:
"Gimme' that Asus with Windows RT" - instead of iOS, Android or Windows 8 device???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Joe may work for a BYOD company, or Joe is buying for his company.
Joe may be my Father, who would like a tablet device he could do email, netflix, hulu, office, and wireless screencasting.
Some Joe's this will work for, other's it won't. We have to recognize, just because we aren't the target market doesn't mean their isn't one.
Many Joe's will buy an iPad or an Android, some will buy W-RT, some will buy none of the above.
A device that is 300-500 dollars, that comes with a free copy of office, and integrates well with a enterprise, has a market.
galtom said:
Office for RT and Office for x86 - two different things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excel, OneNote, PowerPoint and Word are expected to support all of the same Office 15 x86 features.
galtom said:
Windows Phone. It is not a bad system... but it is not better either.
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Click to collapse
Agreed, except in the base security model, and as a feature phone replacement. The phone is massively ahead in terms of sandboxing and enforcing secure practices. It would also be a better phone in terms of ease of use and simplicity for a subset of users. Would I replace my Android with it? no. But that doesn't mean it doesn't do some things well, and that their are users who would find the experience simpler than iPhone or Android when buying their first smartphone.
galtom said:
It will be there but not as any threat to iOS or Android, unlike x86 Windows 8 if Intel&Co will deliver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does something have to be an 'iPad Killer' for there to be a place for it? Why is choice a bad thing?
galtom said:
Restrictions .... bad for every one
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Click to collapse
For some consumers the security and curation makes their experience better, for some the restrictions outweigh any benefit.
For some developers the market will be better than one not existing, for some the restrictions outweigh any benefit.
For most people on this board the restrictions outweigh the upside.
As a developer, while I hate the restrictions Apple and MS impose, I also now have a market to sell to that did not exist 10 years ago.
I will continue to be a proponent of more open options, and an end to restrictions put in place to support a business model rather than architecture or security, but that doesnt' mean that the app store's existance is a net negative on my life.
galtom said:
RT will not support other browser but its own
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Click to collapse
Not true. RT will not support other browsers in 'Classic / Desktop' mode.
I think MS should work with major vendors to allow them to deliver 'classic' mode applications on ARM, but this isn't a ban on other browsers, it's a ban on all software that does not run in the sandbox.
galtom said:
It will sell but only to people with no idea what they are buying
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Click to collapse
I share concern in this area. I believe that most people who bought netbooks did not get what they expected.
I do think there is a place for these devices for a larger group of users than netbooks had a place for.
But I do think they need to make sure it is sold / marketed in a way that makes it clear what it is, and what it is not.
I will probably get my Father one for Christmas. I probably will not get one of my own. Different users have different needs, hopefully the marketing, sales, and staffs at stores do a better job of directing them.
Related
Will there be a Windows 8 effort for this tablet since the developer preview is out?
I don't recall seeing an arm version for download... so I doubt it so far
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk
According to this, it'll support ARM.
http://www.windows8news.com/2011/01/05/windows-8-arm-press-release-microsoft/
agentfazexx said:
According to this, it'll support ARM.
http://www.windows8news.com/2011/01/05/windows-8-arm-press-release-microsoft/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While it will support ARM, no developer preview of the ARM OS has been released as of yet.
Even if Win 8 supports ARM, will the T20 powerful enough to handle it? I know Windows is quite a big clunky thing, no enough horsepower, even if you put it on, it's not going to drive. We'll have to have some sort of uniform performance measure to determine that the T20 is as powerful as those x86s that run Win 8 smoothly to say it will happen and it could be appreciated. But anyways, I'll say, if win 8 actually can run on our Tab, that's only a great news for everyone.
ctiger said:
Even if Win 8 supports ARM, will the T20 powerful enough to handle it? I know Windows is quite a big clunky thing, no enough horsepower, even if you put it on, it's not going to drive. We'll have to have some sort of uniform performance measure to determine that the T20 is as powerful as those x86s that run Win 8 smoothly to say it will happen and it could be appreciated. But anyways, I'll say, if win 8 actually can run on our Tab, that's only a great news for everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ARM version will not be the exact same version as what will be running on the X86 platform.
If you'd care to educate yourself about the many different ARM procs that it will run on, have a look here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4811/windows-8-tablets-running-on-ti-qualcomm-nvidia-amd-intel-silicon
Short answer, no. Long answer, see above.
kjy2010 said:
The ARM version will not be the exact same version as what will be running on the X86 platform.
If you'd care to educate yourself about the many different ARM procs that it will run on, have a look here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4811/windows-8-tablets-running-on-ti-qualcomm-nvidia-amd-intel-silicon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know. Thanks man.
I'd like to point out if this were done none of the software you have now for windows will not work since mostly have no support for arm processor.
I know I know I have wet dreams myself thinking about walking about playing starcraft 2 and valve games
BrianDigital said:
I'd like to point out if this were done none of the software you have now for windows will not work since mostly have no support for arm processor.
I know I know I have wet dreams myself thinking about walking about playing starcraft 2 and valve games
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahaha so do I. I guess VDI will have to do...
agentfazexx said:
Hahahaha so do I. I guess VDI will have to do...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vdi?
Sent from my A500 using xda premium
First its said that windows 8 will be able to run on as little as 128mb. And why would you want to replace the Android OS with anything by Microsoft??
/B][/B]
ctiger said:
Even if Win 8 supports ARM, will the T20 powerful enough to handle it? I know Windows is quite a big clunky thing, no enough horsepower, even if you put it on, it's not going to drive. We'll have to have some sort of uniform performance measure to determine that the T20 is as powerful as those x86s that run Win 8 smoothly to say it will happen and it could be appreciated. But anyways, I'll say, if win 8 actually can run on our Tab, that's only a great news for everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BrianDigital said:
Vdi?
Sent from my A500 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google it. It's a VMware technology.
---------- Post added at 06:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 AM ----------
I<3Android said:
First its said that windows 8 will be able to run on as little as 128mb. And why would you want to replace the Android OS with anything by Microsoft??
/B][/B]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft is a standard.
agentfazexx said:
Microsoft is a standard.
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Click to collapse
Microsoft is a big standard in the PC World, in the phone and tablet world, not so much. Android is more of a standard bearer in those two worlds than Windows is; at least for now.
dscribe said:
Microsoft is a big standard in the PC World, in the phone and tablet world, not so much. Android is more of a standard bearer in those two worlds than Windows is; at least for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well tablets are becoming the new laptops.
agentfazexx said:
Well tablets are becoming the new laptops.
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Click to collapse
To some degree you are right. And Microsoft finds itself behind on this platform trying to play catch-up. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Microsoft basher like some, but Android has a major head-start in this field so far.
dscribe said:
To some degree you are right. And Microsoft finds itself behind on this platform trying to play catch-up. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Microsoft basher like some, but Android has a major head-start in this field so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Google has somewhat of a head start in the mobile market, however Microsoft has a head start in the OS market. They'll catch up soon enough.
agentfazexx said:
Yes, Google has somewhat of a head start in the mobile market, however Microsoft has a head start in the OS market. They'll catch up soon enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe. They were several years ahead of android in the phone market but they are behind there also. We shall see.
Two years ago, the whole computer world has only one software giant, Microsoft, which is the only OS provider, and they know they are the only one. That's monopoly. Even with the phone OS war between Apple and Google fired up so much, it's just some toys to Microsoft's eye, they acted slowly, not want to dump their WinMo 6.5 directly and work on something new, or improve Winmo quickly enough to catch up in the mobile OS market. But all of a sudden, Apple jumped to tablet world, and started to offer something that's simple enough to use and can take place of PC in some leisure use in many household. And now Microsoft can't sit tight, because this directly threaten the core business of Windows. This brought down the price of PC, especially the laptop price, to compete with the new comer, and who benefits? all the consumers.
But if you use the Android, or iOS tablets, you will find it's limited. I can understand that they are still evolving, but the limitation is clear. Some very simple tasks on PC or laptop, became such a headache, impossible mission on Android. I have some excel docs on Google doc, I downloaded the app Google doc, but can't figure out how to copy the whole line, then paste it, and change several fields, instead, in the app, I'll have to copy single field, or edit one by one. I have a lot fields in the line repeated, format the same... So it will be much easier to just copy paste.
After the time, I definitely find the use of a simple Tab, just to view content, but I still dream of having a powerful enough Tab that actually can take over the laptop, isn't that the ultimate goal of the mobile device? So we can plug in a monitor and a keyboard/mouse set, and it will do what my laptop does? We will still have a long way to go. I also hope Google is going that way, otherwise, this windows 8 will soon take over, because many of us have such a desire, and we will go to windows 8 if it can work like that.
ctiger said:
Two years ago, the whole computer world has only one software giant, Microsoft, which is the only OS provider, and they know they are the only one. That's monopoly. Even with the phone OS war between Apple and Google fired up so much, it's just some toys to Microsoft's eye, they acted slowly, not want to dump their WinMo 6.5 directly and work on something new, or improve Winmo quickly enough to catch up in the mobile OS market. But all of a sudden, Apple jumped to tablet world, and started to offer something that's simple enough to use and can take place of PC in some leisure use in many household. And now Microsoft can't sit tight, because this directly threaten the core business of Windows. This brought down the price of PC, especially the laptop price, to compete with the new comer, and who benefits? all the consumers.
But if you use the Android, or iOS tablets, you will find it's limited. I can understand that they are still evolving, but the limitation is clear. Some very simple tasks on PC or laptop, became such a headache, impossible mission on Android. I have some excel docs on Google doc, I downloaded the app Google doc, but can't figure out how to copy the whole line, then paste it, and change several fields, instead, in the app, I'll have to copy single field, or edit one by one. I have a lot fields in the line repeated, format the same... So it will be much easier to just copy paste.
After the time, I definitely find the use of a simple Tab, just to view content, but I still dream of having a powerful enough Tab that actually can take over the laptop, isn't that the ultimate goal of the mobile device? So we can plug in a monitor and a keyboard/mouse set, and it will do what my laptop does? We will still have a long way to go. I also hope Google is going that way, otherwise, this windows 8 will soon take over, because many of us have such a desire, and we will go to windows 8 if it can work like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude the monopoly wars are over too. There is no tech monopoly. Everyone has competition.
Hi All
I am new to the Android tablet world, just bought my transformer yesterday actually, rooted it and tweaked the **** out of it
As being a previous loyal android user, i found myself quite moved and worried about the rumours regarding Windows 8 tablet taking over the market leaving android tablets to die, upon hearing this i asked myself if is this really possible?? Because if it is then what will become of my transformer after a year? For which to buy i had sold my old laptop.
Please leave your ideas and opinions so that this discussion can be carried on.
alizafar said:
Hi All
I am new to the Android tablet world, just bought my transformer yesterday actually, rooted it and tweaked the **** out of it
As being a previous loyal android user, i found myself quite moved and worried about the rumours regarding Windows 8 tablet taking over the market leaving android tablets to die, upon hearing this i asked myself if is this really possible?? Because if it is then what will become of my transformer after a year? For which to buy i had sold my old laptop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a year your tablet will be three maybe four generations old and lacking. That said it will be exactly what it is today. Awesome.
Windows 8 sucks. It won't take anything over.. garbage.
I haven't tried Windows 8 on a tablet, but I did try the free preview on a desktop. I am terribly ashamed to admit it.
I installed it on a computer that I don't use as a daily driver and I disconnected the ethernet to keep things relatively safe. Truly, this is more cautious than when I knowingly put viruses on my computer to test out my virus scanner. No joke. After I burned the installation DVD, I wrote "Caution! Windows 8" on it so that I wouldn't install it, thinking it was a linux distro that I wanted to play around with.
At any rate, Windows 8 is a joke. The UI is terrible and it's just a ploy to take your information. It reminds me of Vista and how that was a flop that they turned into Windows 7. Did anyone see the project Mohave videos?. Navigation is not intuitive and the tiles and charms bar are a mess. It's really the stuff that was leftover and fell on the floor. Take all the stuff that iOS and Android never used because it sucked and bam! Windows 8!
In the interest of disclosure, I dislike Windows and Microsoft products in general.
Good Question
This is a good question, and one I thought about myself. Honestly I don't think it would be hard for Windows to overtake Android tablets, Amazon did it with the kindel. I love my transformer and the OP it has basically replaced my laptop in a lot of ways. But honestly, up to this point I haven't seen anything that would suggest Google can compete well against Windows Amazon or Apple. The update process on Android is ridiculous, and developer support although improving is lacking. Google won't put some sort of QC process and organization on the market so tablet specific apps are hard to find. All of these things are off putting to casual consumers and usually why they choose other OS's. That said, all this can be improved and I think Android tablets will sell more but until then I'm keeping my eye on Windows 8. If they can offer me the same functionality with usb ports, user upgraded memory at a resonable price I might consider a Windows tablet.
I also have the Win8 Consumer Preview installed.
It is an interesting blend of a traditional OS and a tablet OS, but it is still not going to take over Android IMO.
There is still a lot of unknowns. Even if Windows tablets take off, the low powered Tegra variety will probably have issues running full software (like Office) since it is designed for x86 and x64 processors. I know the Atom processors struggled with this for a while.
In general, I will be sticking with Windows 7 because the metro UI is not what I want in a desktop OS. Even for a tablet OS, I still prefer Android.
alizafar said:
Hi All
I am new to the Android tablet world, just bought my transformer yesterday actually, rooted it and tweaked the **** out of it
on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably should have asked this question the day before yesterday.
I wouldn't rule out Microsoft, I have Windows 8 running on an Acer W500 tablet and although it is not quite ready for prime time, the fact that I can run Office 10, surf any site I want, etc. makes it pretty darn useful compared to Android or iOs. It's almost like iOS has the perfect consumption device for people who are just going to surf a bit and do some light stuff, while Windows 8 could handle that plus serious business stuff. I worry about Android's survival because of the lack of control by Google. Between vendors fighting to see who can put out the cheapest tablet, phone carriers and vendors modifying the heck out of it to "differentiate" themselves, and the inability to predict when or if a particular unit will get an update I can't see too many regular people picking an Android tablet compared to iOS or WIndows 8. By the way, that doesn't apply to the people on this forum who are by definition people who enjoy tinkering with their tablets, but if you start talking to the vast majority of the population about rooting, adb, etc. their eyes will glass over. A small vocal minority makes for a neat foruum experience, but it doesn't keep an operating system alive.
I honestly don't see how windows 8 will capture the hearts of the public with the tiles instead of icons. Icons have become so popular because they take advantage of people's natural ability to recognize shapes and patterns at a glance. With tiles, everything looks the same at a glance. I tried out windows 8 and I very quickly found myself having to concentrate more just to see which tile belong to what app. It was annoying as hell.
I tried wp7 and i must say it feels the same as it looks, blocky as hell and windows 8 looks the same. I love android because i can customize it, install whatever i want, root it, flash it, is fast, lots of updates, innovations etc.
I <3 windows on my pc, but <3 Android on my mobile devices and i think it will remain like that for a long time.
I find it hilarious that people are bashing Windows 8 so much. Reminds me of the Win7 beta and RC days.
EDIT: It also reminds me of the jump from Office 2003 to Office 2007/2010. Or jumping from XP to Win7. Familiarity can be a *****; change is good.
gee one said:
Take all the stuff that iOS and Android never used because it sucked and bam! Windows 8!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bwahahahahahaha!!!! Good one!
If windows 8 tablets run on an x86 platform then you'll be able to run all windows apps including games on it so I could see them taking a chunk out of the existing laptop/tablet market.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
I love my Android tablet but it can't totally replace a PC yet. I've been thinking about the ASUS Eee Slate for a while. Price and the fact that Windows 7 is not really tablet optimized has held me back (plus my dismal experience with ASUS RMA's didn't help much). A well made tablet with a tablet optimized OS and a Wacom stylus interests me. I draw and need an office program to do schoolwork.
bbedward said:
If windows 8 tablets run on an x86 platform then you'll be able to run all windows apps including games on it...
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is perhaps the most commonly held misconception out there.
---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------
letsgophillyingeneral said:
I find it hilarious that people are bashing Windows 8 so much. Reminds me of the Win7 beta and RC days.
EDIT: It also reminds me of the jump from Office 2003 to Office 2007/2010. Or jumping from XP to Win7. Familiarity can be a *****; change is good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe it or not, I'm very excited about windows 8. I really am. My gripe with it is for some unfathomable reason they decided to use tiles instead of icons. This one thing will turn most people away.
I think Tweaked hit it on the head.
With nVidia's announced product schedule, one year will bring about huge changes in the tablet market. I don't think you have to worry about Windows 8, but if the huge juggernaut that is the iPad is not killing us right now, then Windows 8 can do absolutely no harm.
Google isn't going to let Android die. It's Google. What Windows 8 will do is bring more competition into the market, which is always a good thing for us consumers.
What will eventually become obsolete are phones and tablets with hardware that can't support Windows 8 or Google's new Android.
Android, and even iOS, are specifically written for a mobile platform.
They are designed to be energy efficient, work with reasonably priced hardware (OK, maybe not in the iOS case) and were built from the ground up for this purpose.
Microsoft is trying to make their desktop environment fit on a tablet.
It was not designed for the mobile platform, not even talking about the interface, I'm talking about efficiency and lack of bloat.
In order to maintain their compatibility they have to add a lot of (in most cases) unnecessary bloat for the few people that may require it.
I'm not bashing Microsoft, I'm just saying the can't shoe-horn their desktop OS on a mobile device and expect it to compete with devices that were specifically designed for the mobile space.
I think Windows 8 is going to fail miserably in the desktop market. I haven't tried it yet because I don't care to, but from what I've seen and heard it has a horrible interface that makes desktop use a horrible experience. The interface looks like it will be useful on a tablet but Microsoft has come too late into the tablet game and will have to bust their asses to catch up. All their apps for their ARM version has to be rewritten from the ground up so they essentially don't have any apps available compared to Android and iOS which have hundreds of thousands of apps available, the x86 version may have more success since they don't have to completely change everything. Although they do have a lot of work ahead of them because apparently they're ditching .NET and using a new language which developers have to learn, here's the kicker the development tools aren't even finished yet!
I don't think we have a lot to worry about considering that the iPad hasn't killed the Android tablet yet. I think a lot of people are going to get Windows 8 and see how much of a clusterfuck it is and wish they had never spent the money on it. Windows has always been a dirty OS that requires Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software to keep it usable, do you really want to have to use that stuff on your tablet also? I guess we'll have to see how it pans out. I think its going to be a miserable failure just like their phones are. It's their last ditch effort to stay relevant in the changing PC market.
Sent from my Transformer using Tapatalk
brando56894 said:
I think Windows 8 is going to fail miserably in the desktop market. I haven't tried it yet because I don't care to, but from what I've seen and heard it has a horrible interface that makes desktop use a horrible experience. The interface looks like it will be useful on a tablet but Microsoft has come too late into the tablet game and will have to bust their asses to catch up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
umm what? Windows 8 does have the standard Windows interface. Metro is basically an overlay GUI. You can turn it on and off.
brando56894 said:
I think Windows 8 is going to fail miserably in the desktop market. I haven't tried it yet because I don't care to,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stopped right there. Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you start an argument off like that?
If you had played with one of the early Windows 8 builds, whether it be the Dev Editition or the Consumer Preview, you would've quickly realized that Windows 8 provides the same exact desktop experience as Windows 7 / Vista.
Like I said earlier in the thread:
letsgophillyingeneral said:
I find it hilarious that people are bashing Windows 8 so much. Reminds me of the Win7 beta and RC days.
EDIT: It also reminds me of the jump from Office 2003 to Office 2007/2010. Or jumping from XP to Win7. Familiarity can be a *****; change is good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Barnes & Noble and Microsoft have settled their patent litigation, and moving forward, Barnes & Noble and Newco will have a royalty-bearing license under Microsoft’s patents for its NOOK eReader and Tablet products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2012/Apr12/04-30CorpNews.aspx
Wait what... Reading article
Edit: does this affect us at all?
brendan10211 said:
Wait what... Reading article
Edit: does this affect us at all?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not with current devices, but to me, it means that future devices are very likely to be windows based instead of android based.
I don't think that it will switch immediately to Window-based,
but no good can come from inviting an 800 pound gorilla to our private party.
I think M$ is more looking to bundle the Nook reader App with Windows 8 and leverage B&N's store for the books.
I really can't foresee M$ being able to scale down Windows 8 to run with any efficiency on an e-reader like the NST.
And M$ investment amounts to 17.6% so they are not in a controlling position, just a favorable one.
I don't see it as a bad deal for B&N as it gives them some capital to shore up the new company as well as get a sticky piece of patent litigation off their backs.
It still remains to be seen how it all plays out. Remember M$ did pretty much the same thing with Apple and look how that turned out for them.
From the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17896534
The Windows 8 operating system is specifically designed to work with touch screens and mobile devices like tablet computers.
Its Metro user interface can host small dedicated applications like Nook to sit on top of Windows.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, a new Nook Color tablet device could be built for Windoze 8, but they would have to ramp up the hardware on an e-ink reader to run that.
Which would raise cost of manufacture which translates to a higher consumer price.
There are already complaints about the $40 price increase for the new Nook GL (which I love btw, got mine today...woot!). The Flexiglow tech is still a new technology and early adopters have to pay a premium for using it in their devices.
How much more would people pay for an e-ink capable of running Windoze 8?
Then there is the Windoze 8 interface. M$ is hard bent on ensuring that the OS remains the same core across all hardware platforms. That would not be an insignificant hurdle for an e-ink reader.
Could it happen? Sure, it's not impossible. But I think there are more than few tough barriers to pass to get there.
How much money will it cost and is M$ willing to spend it?
And then there the fickle consumer.
B&N currently has a working formula. It could use some tweaking, but do you totally scrap that for Windoze 8?
Ok, I probably rambled too much, back to reading in the dark!
B&N CEO Lynch doesn't immediately foresee a Windoze 8 Nook either:
Fortune: Will we see Microsoft engineers and other Redmond-based talent actively working on new Nook devices and software?
Lynch: Currently, we've not communicated anything related to the roadmap about any hardware collaboration on Nook. Nook, as you know, uses open sourcing. Microsoft is obviously very entrenched in Windows. On the reading software side, in reading technologies, they're making interesting integrations into Windows, potentially Office. That kind of work has already started. Definitively yes.
Fortune: With the announcement, there's a lot of speculation now about what can come out of this partnership, like a potential Nook based on Windows 8, as opposed to Android. What can you tell us about the possibilities there?
Lynch: If you look at the content sort of flow from authoring tools, obviously, Microsoft is one of the leaders, if not the leader in authoring tools with Word, PowerPoint, Excel, their Office franchise, all the way through the transaction buying merchandising, sale or cloud management of the content. You can see us working across that.
So again we haven't announced anything specifically, but imagine an integration where an information worker, student, author, consumer, creates something in Office and has it immediately published for sale through the Nook book store. It starts to open a lot of exciting possibilities.
Full article including adding NFC: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/05/01/nook/
why all this speculation focusing on a Nook device of the future running on full Windows 8 when the perfectly natural OS would be a Win Phone 7 variant?
not to mention the OS that e-reading and font smoothing was marketed on first and the foundation of what xda-dev was made for - WINDOWS CE, which is still in develoment as an embedded OS.
I for one welcome a CE Nook, no rooting required!
also, coincidentally, MS just filed a patent app for e-ink 2nd screen to display interactive info. I'd also love to slave my NST to my Windows 8 as a separate touchpad with display!
Personally, I don't want to see a Windows 8 Nook for one reason: Price.
As it is the price for nooks is mostly hardware what with Android being a free OS and not requiring things such as royalties (being opensourced and all) if it all goes to Windows 8 I see the price going up as you'll not only be paying for the hardware, but you'd also be paying for the Windows 8 OS on the device, which would no doubt push the price point higher cause you know M$ has to have their cut. Instead of a $99 e-ink reader we'd probably be looking at $199 or $299 if say it were possible to switch the current Nook Touch to Windows 8 (it isn't but still). The higher end hardware which would be required for Windows 8 will mean that will also push the price point higher than it needs to be. Also replacing current devices with all W8 devices means they've effectively killed their App Market and since I can't see M$ playing nicely on that front they'd lose a source of income.
Another thing is, I can't see M$ playing nicely with people who want to create their own UI to replace whatever UI is on the tablet. Meaning that while you could run a Nook app on the device, you'd still be able to access everything else. So this could be a good point getting away from the restrictive UIs Nooks are known for if they went Win8.
Personally I think B&N needs to stick to android based devices, possibly releasing a W8 Tablet separately that doesn't replace any of their current devices. This would allow for them to continue making lower priced devices for customers who don't want all the bells and whistles of a higher end device.
Yes.
Thanks for an interesting read, guys
If any products are replaced, I'm pretty sure people will stop buying them.. Even though Windows 8 is cool and all, M$ is pushing too hard.
brendan10211 said:
Yes.
Thanks for an interesting read, guys
If any products are replaced, I'm pretty sure people will stop buying them.. Even though Windows 8 is cool and all, M$ is pushing too hard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mainly because the Windows Phone 7 interface was pretty much the only one they came up wtih by themselves. They're acting like a kid that just learned a new word that's fun to say; all they want to do is show everyone the word and try to get them saying it.
That sounds like me..
Thanks for the great analogy.
GabrialDestruir said:
Personally, I don't want to see a Windows 8 Nook for one reason: Price.
As it is the price for nooks is mostly hardware what with Android being a free OS and not requiring things such as royalties (being opensourced and all) if it all goes to Windows 8 I see the price going up as you'll not only be paying for the hardware, but you'd also be paying for the Windows 8 OS on the device,
...
Another thing is, I can't see M$ playing nicely with people who want to create their own UI to replace whatever UI is on the tablet. Meaning that while you could run a Nook app on the device, you'd still be able to access everything else. So this could be a good point getting away from the restrictive UIs Nooks are known for if they went Win8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
again... Windows CE is still in developement for embedded devices and runs on way more anemic ARM hardware than the NST and about the same as the WP7 OS. Plus their development is already paid for and very reliable and very developer friendly. remember, the core of XDA-DEV was built on modding Win CE and changing the UI. I could certainly see that for an eInk budget device.
yet, the future of the Nook Color / Tablet could be running on the Win 8 ARM OS, I agree with you there, and that would open up the device more than B&N does out of the box. target price of a full Intel based Windows 7 and 8 tablet is already $500. they are totally aiming for the $200 - $300 market with their ARM version of 8. I bet price would remain competitive.
although if you look at the aquisition of Skype, MS has been very slow to change anything or absorb them into other products. MS may do absolutely nothing to the Nook hardware line if it's working.
Hello guys! I have an iPad 2 (I dont know if apple talk is even allowed here) but what I want to do is to install Windows 8 on non-jailbroken iPad 2 with iOS 5.0.1 for free. Spashtops paid offer is unfair since Windows slate users can get it for free. So where do I get win8 for free?
install win8 on ipad2? you're kidding, right?
OptimusLove said:
Hello guys! I have an iPad 2 (I dont know if apple talk is even allowed here) but what I want to do is to install Windows 8 on non-jailbroken iPad 2 with iOS 5.0.1 for free. Spashtops paid offer is unfair since Windows slate users can get it for free. So where do I get win8 for free?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a quick question, what is it you are wanting to do?
im not sure if you quite understand what is going on with Splashtop , your not installing Windows 8, your using a remote VM that's streamed to your ipad.
besides that, Win 8 ARM isn't available to us, its not a retail product, we have no idea how hard it is going to be to rip out the OS and install it on other devices, or indeed if its possible at all
What you could try, and I don't have an ipad so I cant be sure it would work, is use a web service such as logmein,
setup a win 8 desktop somewhere, then install logmein, if your ipad will allow it log on to the logmein service and connect to your Win 8 desktop, technically you now have a crude version of Splashtops product
OptimusLove said:
Hello guys! I have an iPad 2 (I dont know if apple talk is even allowed here) but what I want to do is to install Windows 8 on non-jailbroken iPad 2 with iOS 5.0.1 for free. Spashtops paid offer is unfair since Windows slate users can get it for free. So where do I get win8 for free?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, Apple doesn't even let you transfer any sort of files except media on their devices. Secondly, if you could manage to get something on there using SSH or something, you can't execute it at bootup. This proves yet a impossible thing to install Windows 8 on iPad but who knows? Someone can prove me wrong and put Win 8 on iPad. That would be awesome as I also own a iPad (1st-Gen).
??? how will that work ???
How will that work? I mean Apple and Windows on a machine?
This will never be possible =[
Taimur Akmal said:
First of all, Apple doesn't even let you transfer any sort of files except media on their devices. Secondly, if you could manage to get something on there using SSH or something, you can't execute it at bootup. This proves yet a impossible thing to install Windows 8 on iPad but who knows? Someone can prove me wrong and put Win 8 on iPad. That would be awesome as I also own a iPad (1st-Gen).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to mention that iBoot is very particular about what it downloads during recovery.
Cogixo: it's possible with both Mac and Windows PCs, Bootcamp and Hackintoshing (respectively). But on Apple's ARM based tablet? Probably not (in fact, definitely not going to be too possible)
Sent from my LS-LS670 using XDA
Kabayan, it is possible but the hardware is not compatible, you have been seeing windows 8 running on iPad but it was a remote session, using ipad to control another PC running windows 8. AFAIK, there was no single project being produced installing windows 8 in iPad. Splashtop's tool is being used to connect an iPad to a Windows 8 PC, making an illusion of running windows 8 on ipad.
there are windows 8-based tablets in the market now(samsung, ehem) amd windows 7-based tablets can also accommodate windows 8.
if you have enough funds, you can commission few programmers to make a hacked wiindows 8 pc(arm version is better) to make the sources of it compatible to iPad.
junpeikawada said:
Kabayan, it is possible but the hardware is not compatible, you have been seeing windows 8 running on iPad but it was a remote session, using ipad to control another PC running windows 8. AFAIK, there was no single project being produced installing windows 8 in iPad. Splashtop's tool is being used to connect an iPad to a Windows 8 PC, making an illusion of running windows 8 on ipad.
there are windows 8-based tablets in the market now(samsung, ehem) amd windows 7-based tablets can also accommodate windows 8.
if you have enough funds, you can commission few programmers to make a hacked wiindows 8 pc(arm version is better) to make the sources of it compatible to iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had to explain the same thing to my friend who switched from iOS to Android and asked me why he couldn't use Java when "cloud browse for iOS could". Had to explain to him that all he was seeing was a Linux system shunting the images from the java site to his iPod.
Sent from my LS-LS670 using XDA
:laugh: this is kind of joke.... :laugh:
hA....... Jobs is rolling over in his grave. Do some people think first? I'm gonna have to use this one at work.....
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
bzmotoninja83 said:
hA....... Jobs is rolling over in his grave. Do some people think first? I'm gonna have to use this one at work.....
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the idea of Steve jobs perpetually rolling around and around and around in his grave
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
androidcues said:
I like the idea of Steve jobs perpetually rolling around and around and around in his grave
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!
If this is possable, I will go to the store and buy a iPad just for this use....
As I am not interested in it for iOS (sorry fanboys)
Put DOS on your macbook. U can really do it for free)
cogixo said:
How will that work? I mean Apple and Windows on a machine?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is,questions like this show why the Surface is going to be a trainwreck. Windows on Apple hardware was done. First by some guy with quite a bit of talent and skill,then by apple themselves. The thing is,most endusers are so clueless they dont realize why this was possible OR why it was difficult.
It was possible of course becuase the newer apple hardware really IS PC hardware with a slightly different EFI firmware. Therefore running windows on it is possible.
The thing is,there are TWO versions of the Surface,and TWO version of windows 8,which are both completely different. One version of the surface is an ARM based tablet,and it runs a special ARM windows. It needs to run special ARM windows software and cant run normal apps. They call it Windows 8 RT. (presumably for RISC Tablet or RISC Technology)
Then there is the Pro version. It runs "real" windows 8,and can run normal windows programs. Its like a PC in a tablet form factor and will use an Intel Atom CPU. It also costs almost twice as much.
This will confuse people. They will go buy the RT tablet,thinking they can run all the WIndows software and be very angry and dissapointed when they find out the expensive tablet they bought is "useless". Microsofts promises of vast amounts of Metro enabled vaporware wont cut it.
Many of those people will probably STILL not understand. They will think that "Windows 8 wont run your old WIndows programs" and not only wont buy Windows 8 for their PC,they wont even buy a new PC becuase they will think that Windows 8 does not run their software. They saw it with their own eyes,and the guy at windows tech support told them that,or at least thats what they THINK they were told,the guy was hard to understand. Those people will be very angry at Microsoft. Macs will get a nice shot in the arm from this,after all,if you have to buy all new software,then Microsofts lost its barrier to people switching. Perception IS reality in this case.
In the end,this wont kill MS or anything,but they will have to spend a fortune to undo the damage. They will have to run commericals to explain the difference. The RT tablets will dissapear not long after they are released. MS will try to salvage the Windows 8 Pro tablet line. That will anger the people that shelled out 600 dollars for a new tablet and te OEMs that are dumb enough to jump on the bandwagon. (Apperantly HP is one such company thats dumb enough)
Thats not getting into the UI. Windows 8 probably works as well as anything else on a tablet,but it sucks on a desktop.
I expect to see the Metro UI dialed back or eliminated in the Windows 9,which should basically be a rebadged version of 8 with Metro turned off and a normal windows desktop. It will probably drop around early to mid 2014. Service pack one will probably make Metro default to off as well,at least for newly installed machines.
The worst thing will be the confusion. There are too many things they are coming out with called "windows 8". My mother cant even figure out how to create a new document and has to call me every time she does it. How is she going to keep "Windows 8 RT on a Surface","Windows 8 on a Surface pro","Windows 8 Home","windows 8 professional","Windows 8 Ultimate" and "Windows 8 Phone" strait. Which one runs what software again? thats the thing,it used to be,if it ran windows,it ran windows software. People understood that. They also came to understand that really old versions of software that ran on older versions of windows might not run on newer computers with their newer versions of windows. (Although they didnt understand why). This is going to be too much for end users to keep track of.
Now for the real question. Is it theoretically possible to put Windows 8 RT,the ARM version on a I-Pad. The answer is,yes,but it wont happen. Apple does not use standard chips like ,say the HP Touchpad. The chipset is different. The drivers wont exist for a i-Pad and its not a trivial thing to write them. Now,tablets like the Touchpad might someday have a custom Windows 8 RT rom for them. Thats becuase they use a qualcom chipset used in dozens of other devices. As such,its quite likely that drivers for the hardware will exist for Windows 8 RT for those tablets. This is how they were able to port Android to the Touchpad. Even that is a huge undertaking. Its almost a year later and its working quite well but its still not finished and many things (like the camera) do not work right.
---------- Post added at 04:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 AM ----------
DavidinCT said:
If this is possable, I will go to the store and buy a iPad just for this use....
As I am not interested in it for iOS (sorry fanboys)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not a fanboi but I question why you would want Windows 8 RT. Its going to be a disaster. You might as well run webOS. There are two tablets operating systems right now that are successful and then there are the also-rans. The ones no one in their right mind will pay 500 dollars for.
Theres Android,and theres iOS. Thats it. In fact,many android users would rather have a iPad but its too expensive. Thats both good and bad for android. If you look at it one way,maybe 1/3 of Android users are people who would rather have the competitions product but could not afford it. On the other hand,perhaps 1/3 of Android users were potential Apple customers who were swayed by the lower price and better value of Android tablets. Windows RT however is just like WebOS. Its something thats not an iPad,costs as MUCH as an iPad and is not as GOOD as an iPad.
You can beat apple by being as good as an iPad and being far cheaper. You can beat apple by costing as much as an iPad and being far better. However,you cant beat apple by being as good as an iPad and costing as much as one,becuase at the end of the day,Apple has one thing going for it,its product IS an iPad. Thats the one most people want. Microsoft is trying to beat Apple by selling a product that costs as much or more than an iPad,and is not as good as one. (HP tried it too) Now before the fanbois start flaming me,let me say,I dont think Windows 8 RT or WebOS worked nearly as well as Android or iOS,but lets just say they are actually a little better. Thats the thing,they are a little better,but not a lot better,on their own. But then there are apps. The tablet is worthless without apps. WebOS has hardly any. Windows 8 hardly has any. Therefore the iPad and Android are better.
A little better with the promise of some vaporware in the future wont do it. You need apps,and you need them NOW,or you at least have to convince people that you have a winner. You can do it if your just WAY better. But if your just a little better,or the same,or even worse,then no one will make apps,so no one will buy it,so no one will make apps (becuase theres no one to buy them)
Android can compete with iOS becuase for some people,Android is better. Its more open. For others,the closed nature of the iPad is "better". Windows 8RT however has all the disadvantages of iOS with none of the benefits.
pflatlyne said:
The thing is,questions like this show why the Surface is going to be a trainwreck. Windows on Apple hardware was done. First by some guy with quite a bit of talent and skill,then by apple themselves. The thing is,most endusers are so clueless they dont realize why this was possible OR why it was difficult.
It was possible of course becuase the newer apple hardware really IS PC hardware with a slightly different EFI firmware. Therefore running windows on it is possible.
The thing is,there are TWO versions of the Surface,and TWO version of windows 8,which are both completely different. One version of the surface is an ARM based tablet,and it runs a special ARM windows. It needs to run special ARM windows software and cant run normal apps. They call it Windows 8 RT. (presumably for RISC Tablet or RISC Technology)
Then there is the Pro version. It runs "real" windows 8,and can run normal windows programs. Its like a PC in a tablet form factor and will use an Intel Atom CPU. It also costs almost twice as much.
This will confuse people. They will go buy the RT tablet,thinking they can run all the WIndows software and be very angry and dissapointed when they find out the expensive tablet they bought is "useless". Microsofts promises of vast amounts of Metro enabled vaporware wont cut it.
Many of those people will probably STILL not understand. They will think that "Windows 8 wont run your old WIndows programs" and not only wont buy Windows 8 for their PC,they wont even buy a new PC becuase they will think that Windows 8 does not run their software. They saw it with their own eyes,and the guy at windows tech support told them that,or at least thats what they THINK they were told,the guy was hard to understand. Those people will be very angry at Microsoft. Macs will get a nice shot in the arm from this,after all,if you have to buy all new software,then Microsofts lost its barrier to people switching. Perception IS reality in this case.
In the end,this wont kill MS or anything,but they will have to spend a fortune to undo the damage. They will have to run commericals to explain the difference. The RT tablets will dissapear not long after they are released. MS will try to salvage the Windows 8 Pro tablet line. That will anger the people that shelled out 600 dollars for a new tablet and te OEMs that are dumb enough to jump on the bandwagon. (Apperantly HP is one such company thats dumb enough)
Thats not getting into the UI. Windows 8 probably works as well as anything else on a tablet,but it sucks on a desktop.
I expect to see the Metro UI dialed back or eliminated in the Windows 9,which should basically be a rebadged version of 8 with Metro turned off and a normal windows desktop. It will probably drop around early to mid 2014. Service pack one will probably make Metro default to off as well,at least for newly installed machines.
The worst thing will be the confusion. There are too many things they are coming out with called "windows 8". My mother cant even figure out how to create a new document and has to call me every time she does it. How is she going to keep "Windows 8 RT on a Surface","Windows 8 on a Surface pro","Windows 8 Home","windows 8 professional","Windows 8 Ultimate" and "Windows 8 Phone" strait. Which one runs what software again? thats the thing,it used to be,if it ran windows,it ran windows software. People understood that. They also came to understand that really old versions of software that ran on older versions of windows might not run on newer computers with their newer versions of windows. (Although they didnt understand why). This is going to be too much for end users to keep track of.
Now for the real question. Is it theoretically possible to put Windows 8 RT,the ARM version on a I-Pad. The answer is,yes,but it wont happen. Apple does not use standard chips like ,say the HP Touchpad. The chipset is different. The drivers wont exist for a i-Pad and its not a trivial thing to write them. Now,tablets like the Touchpad might someday have a custom Windows 8 RT rom for them. Thats becuase they use a qualcom chipset used in dozens of other devices. As such,its quite likely that drivers for the hardware will exist for Windows 8 RT for those tablets. This is how they were able to port Android to the Touchpad. Even that is a huge undertaking. Its almost a year later and its working quite well but its still not finished and many things (like the camera) do not work right.
---------- Post added at 04:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 AM ----------
Im not a fanboi but I question why you would want Windows 8 RT. Its going to be a disaster. You might as well run webOS. There are two tablets operating systems right now that are successful and then there are the also-rans. The ones no one in their right mind will pay 500 dollars for.
Theres Android,and theres iOS. Thats it. In fact,many android users would rather have a iPad but its too expensive. Thats both good and bad for android. If you look at it one way,maybe 1/3 of Android users are people who would rather have the competitions product but could not afford it. On the other hand,perhaps 1/3 of Android users were potential Apple customers who were swayed by the lower price and better value of Android tablets. Windows RT however is just like WebOS. Its something thats not an iPad,costs as MUCH as an iPad and is not as GOOD as an iPad.
You can beat apple by being as good as an iPad and being far cheaper. You can beat apple by costing as much as an iPad and being far better. However,you cant beat apple by being as good as an iPad and costing as much as one,becuase at the end of the day,Apple has one thing going for it,its product IS an iPad. Thats the one most people want. Microsoft is trying to beat Apple by selling a product that costs as much or more than an iPad,and is not as good as one. (HP tried it too) Now before the fanbois start flaming me,let me say,I dont think Windows 8 RT or WebOS worked nearly as well as Android or iOS,but lets just say they are actually a little better. Thats the thing,they are a little better,but not a lot better,on their own. But then there are apps. The tablet is worthless without apps. WebOS has hardly any. Windows 8 hardly has any. Therefore the iPad and Android are better.
A little better with the promise of some vaporware in the future wont do it. You need apps,and you need them NOW,or you at least have to convince people that you have a winner. You can do it if your just WAY better. But if your just a little better,or the same,or even worse,then no one will make apps,so no one will buy it,so no one will make apps (becuase theres no one to buy them)
Android can compete with iOS becuase for some people,Android is better. Its more open. For others,the closed nature of the iPad is "better". Windows 8RT however has all the disadvantages of iOS with none of the benefits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While there is quite a lot of misinformation in your post, as I don't have a laptop at the minute, I'll only point out a few.
One, your using "vaporware" to describe metro apps on a system currently in active development. This is like you releasing a program currently in development and people calling it vaporware during it's beta release because there's no plugins "yet". Metro applications do exist and are growing in number.
Two, Microsoft has stated many times that RT would not run standard windows applications and I'm sure that will be in the advertising for the surface RT as well. Metro has enough apps for your causal tablet user. If casual joe wants standard windows applications, he'll buy a Surface Pro.
Three, Microsoft stated that Windows 8 was not going to have so many editions in this release. Not to mention that Windows 8 on a Surface Pro and RT (and probably WP8) will run the same Metro applications. Windows 8 on a surface pro will run the same applications as the normal computer.
Four, Microsoft is probably not going to scrap Metro. They've got enough of a user base on Windows 8 (since Developers Preview) to have enough information about metro. IMHO, if there was to be any inclination to scrap metro, we would've seen it in Release Preview with an on/off switch. Besides, they've put so much work into the interface and making that interface unified across their services and software.
As I said, I would write more if it weren't for the fact that I'm currently in the process of a move and my laptop's charger died on me.
No offense is meant by my post here, just thought I'd clear up some confusion that you seem to have.
Sent from my LG-LS670 using XDA
pflatlyne said:
The thing is,questions like this show why the Surface is going to be a trainwreck. Windows on Apple hardware was done. First by some guy with quite a bit of talent and skill,then by apple themselves. The thing is,most endusers are so clueless they dont realize why this was possible OR why it was difficult.
It was possible of course becuase the newer apple hardware really IS PC hardware with a slightly different EFI firmware. Therefore running windows on it is possible.
The thing is,there are TWO versions of the Surface,and TWO version of windows 8,which are both completely different. One version of the surface is an ARM based tablet,and it runs a special ARM windows. It needs to run special ARM windows software and cant run normal apps. They call it Windows 8 RT. (presumably for RISC Tablet or RISC Technology)
Then there is the Pro version. It runs "real" windows 8,and can run normal windows programs. Its like a PC in a tablet form factor and will use an Intel Atom CPU. It also costs almost twice as much.
This will confuse people. They will go buy the RT tablet,thinking they can run all the WIndows software and be very angry and dissapointed when they find out the expensive tablet they bought is "useless". Microsofts promises of vast amounts of Metro enabled vaporware wont cut it.
Many of those people will probably STILL not understand. They will think that "Windows 8 wont run your old WIndows programs" and not only wont buy Windows 8 for their PC,they wont even buy a new PC becuase they will think that Windows 8 does not run their software. They saw it with their own eyes,and the guy at windows tech support told them that,or at least thats what they THINK they were told,the guy was hard to understand. Those people will be very angry at Microsoft. Macs will get a nice shot in the arm from this,after all,if you have to buy all new software,then Microsofts lost its barrier to people switching. Perception IS reality in this case.
In the end,this wont kill MS or anything,but they will have to spend a fortune to undo the damage. They will have to run commericals to explain the difference. The RT tablets will dissapear not long after they are released. MS will try to salvage the Windows 8 Pro tablet line. That will anger the people that shelled out 600 dollars for a new tablet and te OEMs that are dumb enough to jump on the bandwagon. (Apperantly HP is one such company thats dumb enough)
Thats not getting into the UI. Windows 8 probably works as well as anything else on a tablet,but it sucks on a desktop.
I expect to see the Metro UI dialed back or eliminated in the Windows 9,which should basically be a rebadged version of 8 with Metro turned off and a normal windows desktop. It will probably drop around early to mid 2014. Service pack one will probably make Metro default to off as well,at least for newly installed machines.
The worst thing will be the confusion. There are too many things they are coming out with called "windows 8". My mother cant even figure out how to create a new document and has to call me every time she does it. How is she going to keep "Windows 8 RT on a Surface","Windows 8 on a Surface pro","Windows 8 Home","windows 8 professional","Windows 8 Ultimate" and "Windows 8 Phone" strait. Which one runs what software again? thats the thing,it used to be,if it ran windows,it ran windows software. People understood that. They also came to understand that really old versions of software that ran on older versions of windows might not run on newer computers with their newer versions of windows. (Although they didnt understand why). This is going to be too much for end users to keep track of.
Now for the real question. Is it theoretically possible to put Windows 8 RT,the ARM version on a I-Pad. The answer is,yes,but it wont happen. Apple does not use standard chips like ,say the HP Touchpad. The chipset is different. The drivers wont exist for a i-Pad and its not a trivial thing to write them. Now,tablets like the Touchpad might someday have a custom Windows 8 RT rom for them. Thats becuase they use a qualcom chipset used in dozens of other devices. As such,its quite likely that drivers for the hardware will exist for Windows 8 RT for those tablets. This is how they were able to port Android to the Touchpad. Even that is a huge undertaking. Its almost a year later and its working quite well but its still not finished and many things (like the camera) do not work right.
---------- Post added at 04:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 AM ----------
Im not a fanboi but I question why you would want Windows 8 RT. Its going to be a disaster. You might as well run webOS. There are two tablets operating systems right now that are successful and then there are the also-rans. The ones no one in their right mind will pay 500 dollars for.
Theres Android,and theres iOS. Thats it. In fact,many android users would rather have a iPad but its too expensive. Thats both good and bad for android. If you look at it one way,maybe 1/3 of Android users are people who would rather have the competitions product but could not afford it. On the other hand,perhaps 1/3 of Android users were potential Apple customers who were swayed by the lower price and better value of Android tablets. Windows RT however is just like WebOS. Its something thats not an iPad,costs as MUCH as an iPad and is not as GOOD as an iPad.
You can beat apple by being as good as an iPad and being far cheaper. You can beat apple by costing as much as an iPad and being far better. However,you cant beat apple by being as good as an iPad and costing as much as one,becuase at the end of the day,Apple has one thing going for it,its product IS an iPad. Thats the one most people want. Microsoft is trying to beat Apple by selling a product that costs as much or more than an iPad,and is not as good as one. (HP tried it too) Now before the fanbois start flaming me,let me say,I dont think Windows 8 RT or WebOS worked nearly as well as Android or iOS,but lets just say they are actually a little better. Thats the thing,they are a little better,but not a lot better,on their own. But then there are apps. The tablet is worthless without apps. WebOS has hardly any. Windows 8 hardly has any. Therefore the iPad and Android are better.
A little better with the promise of some vaporware in the future wont do it. You need apps,and you need them NOW,or you at least have to convince people that you have a winner. You can do it if your just WAY better. But if your just a little better,or the same,or even worse,then no one will make apps,so no one will buy it,so no one will make apps (becuase theres no one to buy them)
Android can compete with iOS becuase for some people,Android is better. Its more open. For others,the closed nature of the iPad is "better". Windows 8RT however has all the disadvantages of iOS with none of the benefits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i disagree with you completely, just cause something has changed doesnt mean it is bad, metro is an amazing UI for both touch and keyboard and mouse, sure it takes some getting use to but it will always be like that and i dont think you have even tried windows 8, the windows store already has a bunch of metro apps and the os isnt even released as a final product yet. as for windows rt, i feel that will succeed because it is enough for average joe blow to browse the web and play some small games, and even if you need to run pc programs, im 100% sure there will be emulation for x86/x64 programs whether its native or its from a third party company like vmware.
tbh you are being a fanboy so please dont lie to yourself by saying you're not, you're comparing an unreleased os to a failed os because webos doesnt have any apps and windows 8 doesnt have many in its current state and on top of that, you're defending current tablet os's at every chance you get just because they have more apps
heck the reason you NEED an app to do something on ios and android is because you cant do much with the built in apps, have you tried using facebook's desktop site on your android tablet, the experience is terrible, nothing clicks right, you cant hover over drop menus, ect. while on IE10 everything works the way it should, it doesnt freezee or try to click something behind a drop menu, everything just works
and yes i am being a fanboy, windows 8 is the future for mobile computing, especially when there are going to be so many hybrid laptop tablets coming out in the near future, windows 8 would have done what the ipad and android tabs have failed to do, kill the laptop
I agree with you completely pflatlyne, though as previously stated there are many inaccuracies in your post.
One thing I want to point out that hasn't been already corrected: the SurfacePro will run an x64 inter i-Core series CPU, not an Atom
mtmerrick said:
I agree with you completely pflatlyne, though as previously stated there are many inaccuracies in your post.
One thing I want to point out that hasn't been already corrected: the SurfacePro will run an x64 inter i-Core series CPU, not an Atom
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but it could do, future Atoms will be developed and improved uppon, there is no technically reason Win8 Pro wont run on an Atom or an i7!
infact id put money it there being mid level devices released some time after the initial release to fill the void between ARM and i5 although in saying that there is apparently only 10w difference between the two so perhaps new i3s will become the new Atom ultra low watt SKUs
Did anyone see this?
My understand is the Windows RT Slate comes with a full version of MS Office. How can anyone compare this to a Kindle Fire? Why is it that any time MSFT introduces something people say all sorts of bizarre things about it but with Apple they will pay any price for subpar hardware?
In my opinion, the RT version shouldn't cost more than the iPad. It's a new product and there aren't as many apps as there are on iPad.
luizmeme said:
In my opinion, the RT version shouldn't cost more than the iPad. It's a new product and there aren't as many apps as there are on iPad.
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I disagree with you, any windows rt tablets should cost about as much as android tablets fall into while the Intel tablets should cost about the same as some of the higher end ipads
right now windows 8 has about as many apps as android tablets do when it comes to metro apps but if you're running an Intel based tablets you have desktop apps and games along side of metro apps and games
good price,lets see if they include office.
The competition is ON but please le's not get ahead of ourselves. Microsoft already has their pricing range set. The Kindle or iPad have different hardware set Compairing different things here. It's all about what you prefer and can afford!
Happy buying!
Who needs a bunch of apps if the OS is built correctly?
luizmeme said:
In my opinion, the RT version shouldn't cost more than the iPad. It's a new product and there aren't as many apps as there are on iPad.
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What would you rather have Words With Friends or a full blown version of Office on your tablet? Furthermore I believe IE10 will have flash support built in. I notice a lot of Apps are there because tablets and phones can't use a lot of websites correctly. What would you rather have a full blown working browser or a clutter of apps?
I can't leave my laptop at home and travel with any of the major tablets. I need Office, Photoshop, and a full blown browser. I hate it when I get on the reservation page of a hotel and the tablet can't pull it up correctly. I can't book or cancel rooms half the time on that thing. You've got to get an app for that. So annoying. Seriously I just looked at the start menu of my desktop and besides the built in stuff that comes with Windows 7 I have Office, Photoshop, Adobe reader, VLC, Firefox, and pretty much nothing else.
sitizenx said:
What would you rather have Words With Friends or a full blown version of Office on your tablet? Furthermore I believe IE10 will have flash support built in. I notice a lot of Apps are there because tablets and phones can't use a lot of websites correctly. What would you rather have a full blown working browser or a clutter of apps?
I can't leave my laptop at home and travel with any of the major tablets. I need Office, Photoshop, and a full blown browser. I hate it when I get on the reservation page of a hotel and the tablet can't pull it up correctly. I can't book or cancel rooms half the time on that thing. You've got to get an app for that. So annoying. Seriously I just looked at the start menu of my desktop and besides the built in stuff that comes with Windows 7 I have Office, Photoshop, Adobe reader, VLC, Firefox, and pretty much nothing else.
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you cant rely on office so heavily, that's why windows mobile failed but i do agree with you, this will be one of the first productive tablets instead of the play ones, but they need to make IE faster, after using IE10 on my tab i have to say it sucks just as much as all the other IE versions did, now im just playing the waiting game for google to fix their touch support in the chrome browser before i make the switch to using chrome
luigi90210 said:
you cant rely on office so heavily, that's why windows mobile failed but i do agree with you, this will be one of the first productive tablets instead of the play ones, but they need to make IE faster, after using IE10 on my tab i have to say it sucks just as much as all the other IE versions did, now im just playing the waiting game for google to fix their touch support in the chrome browser before i make the switch to using chrome
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I'm not "relying on office so heavily." Plus office on any small phone screen has limited utility. Office on a Surface is a whole different matter. You have a full keyboard and trackpad. You even have a USB port so you can use a mouse. On the Pro Surface you can even run photoshop. My point is I can leave everything at home and just take a Surface and my Windows Phone on a trip and I am set. Office, Photoshop, Acrobat, and Firefox cover 95% of my computing needs. I don't need a million and one apps. If I need to check weather, stock quotes, news, etc I can just go online. I have a full keyboard and mouse if I wish.
I could never go on a trip with just an ipad and a phone. No way. I've been burned too many times. Comparing a Surface which is a fully functional machine to an ipad which is an expensive glorified toy is ridiculous.
I'm into music production, I can have the full version of my music software on the 86 version that's gonna change things alot. My friend who is a producer he has two iPads and is getting a third one, that are loaded with every music app you get but the still has to use his desktop or laptop to get any work done, I'll be able to do it with one device.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Plus people are forgetting that there's gonna be many more windows slates out other than ms some may have even better specs the ms surface has, hp,Dell,etc. This is gonna be the death of the desktop year, no one is gonna get a desktop because the surface devices can work as full computer the 86 version has a mini port , an the rt has a HD video port, plus all the other stuff
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
The surface RT will NEVER be as low or lower than $199. You'd be lucky to see it under $599. Remember, it will out spec the other Tablet/Slates in the market and surely outdo the iPad. Microsoft is sick of being screwed and laughed at, they're now going to show the MFG's what the mean when they said you need to do this and that (spec wise).
Pricing
I wrote a comment about this earlier posting why it will be around that price range.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=27884775&postcount=33
:good:
lseidman said:
The surface RT will NEVER be as low or lower than $199. You'd be lucky to see it under $599. Remember, it will out spec the other Tablet/Slates in the market and surely outdo the iPad. Microsoft is sick of being screwed and laughed at, they're now going to show the MFG's what the mean when they said you need to do this and that (spec wise).
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Google will lunch Nexus 7 which will costs under 200$ in the base version.
I think if Microsoft wants to be competitive in the tablet market needs to sell its Surface under 199$.
599$ is very expensive.
Price seems too good to be true
lseidman said:
The surface RT will NEVER be as low or lower than $199. You'd be lucky to see it under $599. Remember, it will out spec the other Tablet/Slates in the market and surely outdo the iPad. Microsoft is sick of being screwed and laughed at, they're now going to show the MFG's what the mean when they said you need to do this and that (spec wise).
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for 599 i can buy a windows 32bit tablet and an android tablet, microsoft isnt stupid so i know it wont be priced that high for the rt tablet, they need to compete with ipads remember, and just cause it out specs and out does the ipad doesnt mean people will buy it, android tabs are already cheaper and faster than the ipad but the ipad still out sells android tablets(not including ereaders)
---------- Post added at 03:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 AM ----------
DeAndreon said:
Google will lunch Nexus 7 which will costs under 200$ in the base version.
I think if Microsoft wants to be competitive in the tablet market needs to sell its Surface under 199$.
599$ is very expensive.
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i dont think microsoft is going after android as much as they are going after the ipad
android tablets are cost effective because android is a free OS while windows is licensed to manufactures, if its anything i think the cheapest windows rt tablet will cost around 250-290 depending on specs which tbh isnt outrageous
i dont think microsoft is going after android as much as they are going after the ipad
android tablets are cost effective because android is a free OS while windows is licensed to manufactures, if its anything i think the cheapest windows rt tablet will cost around 250-290 depending on specs which tbh isnt outrageous[/QUOTE]
This
People who think it needs to cost LESS than $199 are smoking crack. It needs no such thing.
What it DOES need to do is be priced competitively with entry level iPad, which means around $399-499 for the ARM version. The Intel version can get away with ultrabook pricing because, well, it's basically an ultrabook--just with a badass design .
Now that we've seen the Nexus 7 Android tablet at $199 with similar guts to the RT version (as long as we assume the RT version will be Tegra 3) but with a smaller screen, but with more features, it's fair and safe to say that we should expect reasonable pricing for Surface on Windows RT.
But with that said, I don't expect Surface, even in ARM version, to be the cheapest Windows 8 tablet. I believe we'll see third parties offering less expensive--probably more cheaply built, too--Windows RT tablets. How low will they go?
Well, I guess only time will tell. On the bright side, MS has been very smart with the development of both Windows 8 and Surface--they won't fall into the lawsuit trap that Android makers have with Apple.
sitizenx said:
Did anyone see this?
My understand is the Windows RT Slate comes with a full version of MS Office. How can anyone compare this to a Kindle Fire? Why is it that any time MSFT introduces something people say all sorts of bizarre things about it but with Apple they will pay any price for subpar hardware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Microsoft should 'cheapen' the RT to compete with Nexus 7, The more competition, the better.
guys u need to remmember that u pay some cash for the windows OS.When u buy a laptop with installed windows in it it u pay around 200$ (in Bulgaria) for the licence more compared to a laptop or pc without OS.So im 100% sure that the cost of the RT version will be will be included in the tablet so lets hope that the OS is around 70% so the tablet can be priced around 250 300$.I think that the RT version starting from 250 300$ is a pretty good price.About the win8 pro i gues 700/800$ +
After having the asus transformer prime for about the last 4 months or so, I can gladly say I would rather pay extra for RT. If they update it like they do other windows then it's worth it. Remember with a free OS YOU GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!