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Can anybody explain how android handle multitasking.How such a famous OS is poor at mutitasking?For example when iam using stock browser with stock music player running in background,iam not able to use other apps like webster dictionary or xda app.Everytime one of the task gets automatically closed..So kindly explain how android os closes apps without permission from user? or before closing why dont android warn user to manually close the task according to piority.I think even symbian can do better multitasking than android.
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No expert to comment????
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It's due to low RAM.
When there's low amount of free RAM, android will kill some running apps to free up some.
I don't really know more details, but you can tweak this behavior using RAM scripts or your own lowmemorykiller values.
I think ~1GB of RAM (like SGS2) will be really good for multitasking, but SGS1 RAM is a bit low.
Here you go
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html
mammenj said:
Here you go
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html
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Thanks mammenj
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
theos0o said:
It's due to low RAM.
When there's low amount of free RAM, android will kill some running apps to free up some.
I don't really know more details, but you can tweak this behavior using RAM scripts or your own lowmemorykiller values.
I think ~1GB of RAM (like SGS2) will be really good for multitasking, but SGS1 RAM is a bit low.
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As much as I want to get a SGS2, the battery life on my SGS with a 1650mah battery is too good to pass up right now.
Plus the SGS2 is too big of a form factor for my liking.
Honestly if the SGS released the exact same identical form factor successor with 1gb on board, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
I also have a Motorola Atrix, but I ****ing HATE Qhd! Sure the ram makes this phone much snappier, but the small text is a PITA that is almost a deal breaker for me...
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
ccrows said:
As much as I want to get a SGS2, the battery life on my SGS with a 1650mah battery is too good to pass up right now.
Plus the SGS2 is too big of a form factor for my liking.
Honestly if the SGS released the exact same identical form factor successor with 1gb on board, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
I also have a Motorola Atrix, but I ****ing HATE Qhd! Sure the ram makes this phone much snappier, but the small text is a PITA that is almost a deal breaker for me...
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
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Doesn't the SGS 2 provide a better battery life than SGS without considering the extra battery?
For the Motorola Atrix, can't you try changing the LCD density or even the font size?
In this world of patents and sue sue it's harder to implement new ideas in anything even if it cam from youe own mind you will still have to check it first that is there anyone who has this idea before. i am hoping android will do great in future when pc quality hardware will come into these tiny devices, 2gb of ram quad core processors
Try talon kernel. It uses zram which is compressed virtual ram. You can have a half dozen apps open at once at the cost of brief lags swapping between them. I have listened to music, downloaded a 100mb file and Web surfed without any aap killing!
**Simply Honey 5.0 JVR, Talon kernel & Tegrak OC app [email protected]**
dadyal said:
In this world of patents and sue sue it's harder to implement new ideas in anything even if it cam from youe own mind you will still have to check it first that is there anyone who has this idea before. i am hoping android will do great in future when pc quality hardware will come into these tiny devices, 2gb of ram quad core processors
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leaked specs of the Samsung Galaxy S3 say it will allegedly pack a 2GHz quad core into its 9mm metal and glass frame.
I'm getting me one of those when they are out.
From experience reading this board, if i was in the tablet making business, I would make one with like 4GB RAM, an unlock[ed | able] bootloader and crap battery life, just to see how many people here at XDA would buy the darn thing and try to make a ROM with battery battery life and OC.
The most verbose people here about the "Eww, only 1GB" types have probably moved on to primes and are demanding TF700T's or whatever is next.
In most cases, we're likely just better off screwing with Dalvik and tuning our TF101's ROMs. It's still a VM and Java involved after all, not assembly code running natively to start with.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk; and my TF101 is half a foot away!
I've proposed many times that asus should come out with a TF model called Asus Transformer Whiner's Edition TFwhine. In it, there will be 4gig of ram, 100gig of sdcard space, 30hr of bat life, paper thin, water proof, fingerprint proof, sticky as hell (for the butter fingers), and foldable full size PC keyboard. But I'm sure the whiners will find some other thing to whine about.
To me, 1gig of ram is enough. I've never had any issue with running out of ram. I'm serious. This has never come up for me. I mean, what the hell are people running that requires more than a gig of ram?
More RAM would be nice, but I'm more excited about Windows 8 and the new 'ultrabooks' that we'll see in the near future.
letsgophillyingeneral said:
More RAM would be nice, but I'm more excited about Windows 8 and the new 'ultrabooks' that we'll see in the near future.
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Can you give us a few examples of when you couldn't do something because it only has 1gig of ram?
goodintentions said:
To me, 1gig of ram is enough. I've never had any issue with running out of ram. I'm serious. This has never come up for me. I mean, what the hell are people running that requires more than a gig of ram?
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I have 2 other tablets and 2 phones with only 512mb of ram, even that seems to be enough for Android. IMO, anything over 1gb would be overkill.
goodintentions said:
Can you give us a few examples of when you couldn't do something because it only has 1gig of ram?
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Sorry, I thought I was still on the Charge forums. The Charge only has half a gig.
just lou said:
I have 2 other tablets and 2 phones with only 512mb of ram, even that seems to be enough for Android. IMO, anything over 1gb would be overkill.
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+1
Seriously!! What the hell are people doing that 1GB isn't enough. We used to run (some people still do) Microsoft Windows computers with less than a gig of RAM. It's ridiculous to even sit there and think, that you need more RAM on a phone or tablet.
The browser kinda eats up lots of RAM (if I have around 3-4 pages open, as usual, it eats around 400MB!!), and basically, just the GPU eats off 120MB of all the thing.
FYI, a fast teardown:
- 1024MB RAM
- From that, 728MB is available mostly (some kernels push it to 768MB tops)
- Booting the system, with all the Asus crap loads approx 220-240MB into RAM, including all the things (Launcher, settings, applications autostarting, widgets). And that's a pretty good ratio.
- Basically you now got less than 500MB RAM. If you have tons of widgets, that can reduce free RAM to 400MB. And we're at the same point as smartphones - except that our devices have a lot bigger display, with a lot bigger resolution (2.666666 times more pixels), what means, we need bigger graphics too, what increases application RAM occupation.
Conclusion: With the current setup, we can run less applications on a 1GB RAM tablet than on a 512MB RAM phone (assuming it's a mid-end device with HDPI WVGA display, like, a Galaxy S). That's why we need more RAM, if you increase it to 2GB, you get approx 1.6GB free RAM, 1.3 after system start, and with many apps open, you'll get around 200MB free.
Guess what? That means you're running to much lol. I've got about 450MB if one trusts the settings app; Google and Exchange services are eating at least 20 megs combined! Never mind crap that I don't actually use burning some too. Devices have limits, and 1GB seems to hold plenty until content creation enters the mix, and doing that on Android has more pressing limits in software and users than RAM available. Besides, 2GB tablets will more likely result in fatter apps to fill it than more space to run most apps. Just take a look at Minecraft PC.
My old development system had 1GB of RAM running FreeBSD, if you try to combine GCC, pidgin x 6 logins, Firefox x 20+ tabs, and streaming music with Flash on that laptop, it would all but hit a HCF. I could either compile or have a smooth web, or buy a more powerful laptop. I didn't need one because I could still fit everythig well enough inti its constraints, I wasn't about to start re-encodig lord of the rings whileni waited either.
goodintentions said:
I've proposed many times that asus should come out with a TF model called Asus Transformer Whiner's Edition TFwhine. In it, there will be 4gig of ram, 100gig of sdcard space, 30hr of bat life, paper thin, water proof, fingerprint proof, sticky as hell (for the butter fingers), and foldable full size PC keyboard. But I'm sure the whiners will find some other thing to whine about.
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Nah, instead of a physical keyboard built in, it ought to hover on it's own and type by mental uplink, or project one in 3D if we can't do that one yet. That way ASUS can still make money off the dock .
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Actually, wasn't there supposed to be development from an MIT project, where it was a device that projected keyboards and "touch screens" on whatever surface you aim it at? It was like one of those projector things you always see in exhibitions and fancy places, where the projector interacts with the things blocking the projections, but more cellphone-like and computer-like.
Also, who could argue with more RAM? I think the thing that holds that idea is back is tablet space. Just wait for the next generation RAM/memory structures. STT-RAM, it will be a universal RAM-Memory! Non-volatile RAM ftw!
goodintentions said:
Can you give us a few examples of when you couldn't do something because it only has 1gig of ram?
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Ubuntu TF101 = Not enough RAM lol
Android = More than enough RAM for now atleast
Sent from my tf Enigmatic V2 beta 1.65Ghz Panda.test cust kernel settings
And ultrabooks are irrelevant to this discussion. You can take your ultrabook and Windows 8 but that's at the point where it's not even remotely comparable to a tablet, much less an Android tablet like the TF101 or TF201 due to the hardware costs. The licensing cost of Windows 8 alone is going to increase the price significantly.
1GB of RAM is more than enough, this is meant to be an enjoyable, lightweight consumer tablet. Not a supercomputing cluster on the go. If you want more RAM you're on the wrong device. Go get an ultrabook or a laptop because you're attempting to cram your needs into 1GB of memory, not designed for your needs.
My 2 cents it is that the memory requirement is a function of Apps. Right now most tablet's are running apps with limited functionality. But as the processors get better, more and more traditional desktop and notebook apps will migrate to tablets. This will be especially true for people that have tablets, like the Transformer, that blur the line between a tablet and a notebook. One can imagine something like Photoshop CS5 running on a tablet and easily requiring 4 GB or more of RAM.
jerrykur said:
My 2 cents it is that the memory requirement is a function of Apps. Right now most tablet's are running apps with limited functionality. But as the processors get better, more and more traditional desktop and notebook apps will migrate to tablets. This will be especially true for people that have tablets, like the Transformer, that blur the line between a tablet and a notebook. One can imagine something like Photoshop CS5 running on a tablet and easily requiring 4 GB or more of RAM.
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Oh, absolutely. I am sure that in due time we will have tablets with like 20GB of ram. But for now, with the software we have now and the foreseeable future, anything more than 1GB of ram is just stupid.
But that's a completely misguided notion of where apps and tablets are headed. Memory is not a function of apps, at least not linearly or continuously. I see memory hitting a ceiling in terms of heat, space and cost. I see apps not being developed with serious work in mind. You cited photoshop as an example and I think that's just bizarre. This is a tablet. There's this misguided notion that all mobile devices have to converge to the desktop in terms of performance and usage and I think it's bizarre and insane. When you cram a desktop into a tablet what is that? Why even bother when you can go for a laptop that would probably cost half in terms of price and multiples in terms of comfort? Why would any company bother doing this? Why would Google even push Android in this direction?
It's a tablet. You have fun, maybe do typing and word processing at the maximum and in special use cases. But it's meant to be lightweight, enjoyable and made for ENTERTAINMENT. User input at a minimum, simple touch movements, big on audio and visuals. Look at the screen to read a book, watch a video, listen to music. Pull your finger around or tilt the tablet. Not sit there and furiously work on a Photoshop project. That's what a mouse, a full sized keyboard and a desktop computer were made for.
When you talk about a future where RAM increases to meet the needs of apps, Photoshop is on the Android market and CPU power similarly increases to meet the needs. It's no longer a tablet, it's a laptop without a keyboard. It will be priced ugly and its design and specs will match that ugliness.
Maybe in the future we will have hardware so slim and so energy efficient and an input system so perfect all computers will be touch tablets, wafer thin, bendable and capable of running as fast as the U.S. govs fastest superclusters and everyone can download a genome sequencer app that lets you sequence the human genome on every tablet redundantly for ****s and giggles and within two seconds but I highly doubt this future will arrive within our lifetimes. Any attempt to head there by cramming a desktop ideal into a tablet form factor is misguided IMO.
Tubular said:
But that's a completely misguided notion of where apps and tablets are headed. Memory is not a function of apps, at least not linearly or continuously. I see memory hitting a ceiling in terms of heat, space and cost. I see apps not being developed with serious work in mind. You cited photoshop as an example and I think that's just bizarre. This is a tablet. There's this misguided notion that all mobile devices have to converge to the desktop in terms of performance and usage and I think it's bizarre and insane. When you cram a desktop into a tablet what is that? Why even bother when you can go for a laptop that would probably cost half in terms of price and multiples in terms of comfort? Why would any company bother doing this? Why would Google even push Android in this direction?
It's a tablet. You have fun, maybe do typing and word processing at the maximum and in special use cases. But it's meant to be lightweight, enjoyable and made for ENTERTAINMENT. User input at a minimum, simple touch movements, big on audio and visuals. Look at the screen to read a book, watch a video, listen to music. Pull your finger around or tilt the tablet. Not sit there and furiously work on a Photoshop project. That's what a mouse, a full sized keyboard and a desktop computer were made for.
When you talk about a future where RAM increases to meet the needs of apps, Photoshop is on the Android market and CPU power similarly increases to meet the needs. It's no longer a tablet, it's a laptop without a keyboard. It will be priced ugly and its design and specs will match that ugliness.
Maybe in the future we will have hardware so slim and so energy efficient and an input system so perfect all computers will be touch tablets, wafer thin, bendable and capable of running as fast as the U.S. govs fastest superclusters and everyone can download a genome sequencer app that lets you sequence the human genome on every tablet redundantly for ****s and giggles and within two seconds but I highly doubt this future will arrive within our lifetimes. Any attempt to head there by cramming a desktop ideal into a tablet form factor is misguided IMO.
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You should google graphene. That's where we're heading. Graphene is so strong and so conductive that electronic parts as thin as 1 atom thick could be made. We're talking ultra thin electronic devices in the near future.
I don't think 1GB RAM is enough for Honeycomb, I regularly find my free RAM dropping to double figures <70MB and the system requiring a reboot.
Even using a task killer over time will not free up the same amount of RAM as was available after the previous reboot.
Honeycomb memory management needs a massive amount of work before it can be left to control RAM on its own, I think 1.5-2GB RAM would be a much better solution
In my opinion, more RAM on Android devices is just to keep more applications in memory for multitasking.
I couldn't imagine that a 256mb game, or even a 2mb app, would benefit from a device having more ram than the size of the app.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
goodintentions said:
You should google graphene. That's where we're heading. Graphene is so strong and so conductive that electronic parts as thin as 1 atom thick could be made. We're talking ultra thin electronic devices in the near future.
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http://arstechnica.com/science/news...hell-holds-the-secret-to-bendable-screens.ars
Here's another interesting one.
infazzdar said:
In my opinion, more RAM on Android devices is just to keep more applications in memory for multitasking.
I couldn't imagine that a 256mb game, or even a 2mb app, would benefit from a device having more ram than the size of the app.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
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The size of an app has nothing to do with how much RAM it consumes.
A prime example is firefox on a PC... around 17MB app, can use GB's of RAM due to memory leaks, and even without leaks, would still use a couple hundred MB
Viruses are another example, designed to use up as much system resources as possible while only being KB's in size
This is the 4th time I've opened my task manager today and realized I was using over a gig. It easy to use over a gig when its there
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
a phone OS using more ram than Vista??? not a good sign. God where are the AOSP roms already :crying:
Kernel knows it has more memory available so apps are more likely to stay in their suspended state, rather than removed from memory.
But I enjoy the 2GB of ram for sure.
dardani89 said:
a phone OS using more ram than Vista??? not a good sign. God where are the AOSP roms already :crying:
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Using RAM is not bad; needing RAM is bad. Android 4.0 can easily run with less than 400 MB, but some things can be a little faster when they don't have to constantly reload.
stuff said:
Kernel knows it has more memory available so apps are more likely to stay in their suspended state, rather than removed from memory.
But I enjoy the 2GB of ram for sure.
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This. Everything switches back instantly!!
One of the most frustrating parts of the HTC OneX for me was when i was reading a long page of comments on sites like the verge or typing up a forum post. If i left the browser to reply to a text or facebook notification, and then returned to the browser it would always reload a page, and at the top.
Even the (heavy) Sense 4 launcher would have to load up every now and then.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747
Voltage Spike said:
Using RAM is not bad; needing RAM is bad. Android 4.0 can easily run with less than 400 MB, but some things can be a little faster when they don't have to constantly reload.
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i wasn't making fun of android, i was making fun of touchwiz. too much bloat.
If the RAM will mean Nova Launcher wont reload itself as much as it currently does on my Incredible, then that's reason enough for me.
Having had the 1X for a month the 2 gb ram was one of the reasons I switched.
The 2GB of ram (and LTE) has been excessively downplayed by the International crowd because..well..they don't have it. The fact is the 2GB of ram should allow a stock phone to reload things much less. If you want to look forward 6 months to a year, I think the difference will be potentially much larger when we start to see creative devs tweaking their kernels to really use this extra ram. This is a ground breaking hardware move. We haven't even really begun to see what is possible. Judging any of these based on stock software at release is pointless. Think about how much better other phones have gotten after a few OTA updates....this device, especially with the extra ram is really well equipped for a long time.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
jamesnmandy said:
The 2GB of ram (and LTE) has been excessively downplayed by the International crowd because..well..they don't have it. The fact is the 2GB of ram should allow a stock phone to reload things much less. If you want to look forward 6 months to a year, I think the difference will be potentially much larger when we start to see creative devs tweaking their kernels to really use this extra ram. This is a ground breaking hardware move. We haven't even really begun to see what is possible. Judging any of these based on stock software at release is pointless. Think about how much better other phones have gotten after a few OTA updates....this device, especially with the extra ram is really well equipped for a long time.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
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This ^^^
Truth
XDA Mobile
By the time any phone will actually use 2gb of ram, im sure most of us will have moved on to a new phone already. Of course having the extra ram is good for bragging rights, but does it actually mean anything? I'll say no, but im sure some will argue that.
shook187 said:
By the time any phone will actually use 2gb of ram, im sure most of us will have moved on to a new phone already. Of course having the extra ram is good for bragging rights, but does it actually mean anything? I'll say no, but im sure some will argue that.
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they already make use of 1.1-1.2GB of ram out of the box running all stock software.......imagine if custom roms/kernels were available that make use of it....it's not far off....."by the time any phone will use" is closer than you think
jamesnmandy said:
they already make use of 1.1-1.2GB of ram out of the box running all stock software.......imagine if custom roms/kernels were available that make use of it....it's not far off....."by the time any phone will use" is closer than you think
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This is good in theory but everyone on here is talking like we have been missing two gigs all this time in our phones. If you are coming to the S3 from a single core phone of course this is night and day. My SGSII has NEVER.....I repeat NEVER run out of memory lost track multitasking or had to close out multiple apps to make room for more.....how many apps does one need sitting in a suspended state?.....I have 5 or 6 apps open at any given time with PLENTY of room for more...sure the extra ram is nice to have, but its completely unnecessary ....dual cores with a gig of ram have NO problem doing heavy multitasking .....ask anyone running as SGSII or Gnex.
The extra ram in the S3 is there to offset the loss of quadcore....its a nice helping hand to the Krait chip but not necessary for everyday multitasking that the average person does.....I don't know what phones alot of you guys are coming from but from the sounds of these posts they were serious under achievers.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
tylerdurdin said:
This is good in theory but everyone on here is talking like we have been missing two gigs all this time in our phones. If you are coming to the S3 from a single core phone of course this is night and day. My SGSII has NEVER.....I repeat NEVER run out of memory lost track multitasking or had to close out multiple apps to make room for more.....how many apps does one need sitting in a suspended state?.....I have 5 or 6 apps open at any given time with PLENTY of room for more...sure the extra ram is nice to have, but its completely unnecessary ....dual cores with a gig of ram have NO problem doing heavy multitasking .....ask anyone running as SGSII or Gnex.
The extra ram in the S3 is there to offset the loss of quadcore....its a nice helping hand to the Krait chip but not necessary for everyday multitasking that the average person does.....I don't know what phones alot of you guys are coming from but from the sounds of these posts they were serious under achievers.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
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i think the reason you never saw your device running out of room is likely because the system knew how much memory it had to work with and was always adjusting things to accommodate as much memory....if the system had more memory available to it it can behave differently....it's not about "how many apps one needs in a suspended state", it's about "the more apps you can keep in a suspended state the quicker the apps will run for the user"
i know this isn't x86 and it's not windows, but the analogy still stands, consider Windows 7
if you build a pc using it with 2Gb of ram it will run just fine, it will use somewhere around 1Gb of ram sitting idle, using it for the prefetch cache to be ready to launch your most used apps while maintaining a safe amount of memory for sudden useage/overhead
if you upgrade that same pc to 4Gb of ram, it will use close to 2Gb at idle.....it's not quite linear as that but you can see a direct correlation between available memory and memory utilization
the Linux kernel behind android appears to work very similarly, it will keep the most called upon code in local memory so that it launches faster when next called upon. the more memory available to the kernel, the less time it can spend killing apps in order to maintain that same level of free memory for the unexpected execution of a new app
the more memory it has, if it is written/compiled to take advantage of it, the more potential for performance is there.
I would say the 2Gb of memory is more easily utilized than the additional redundant cores in the Exynos kit. I have been looking for some real data on Android and SMP but I know recently Intel made a rare public statement about how it is not ready for even dual core utilization. I don't think Intel would make such a specific claim without data. I don't think the Exynos users are really getting much good at all from the four cores other than synthetic benchmark scores and I think they could see more benefits down the road from more memory than redundant A9 older technology additional cores.
disclaimer: I am still learning about all this so if some smart guy comes along and sees something above that is not quite right....it's not because I am making this up....it's what I understand to be true based on reading.
jamesnmandy said:
i think the reason you never saw your device running out of room is likely because the system knew how much memory it had to work with and was always adjusting things to accommodate as much memory....if the system had more memory available to it it can behave differently....it's not about "how many apps one needs in a suspended state", it's about "the more apps you can keep in a suspended state the quicker the apps will run for the user"
i know this isn't x86 and it's not windows, but the analogy still stands, consider Windows 7
if you build a pc using it with 2Gb of ram it will run just fine, it will use somewhere around 1Gb of ram sitting idle, using it for the prefetch cache to be ready to launch your most used apps while maintaining a safe amount of memory for sudden useage/overhead
if you upgrade that same pc to 4Gb of ram, it will use close to 2Gb at idle.....it's not quite linear as that but you can see a direct correlation between available memory and memory utilization
the Linux kernel behind android appears to work very similarly, it will keep the most called upon code in local memory so that it launches faster when next called upon. the more memory available to the kernel, the less time it can spend killing apps in order to maintain that same level of free memory for the unexpected execution of a new app
the more memory it has, if it is written/compiled to take advantage of it, the more potential for performance is there.
I would say the 2Gb of memory is more easily utilized than the additional redundant cores in the Exynos kit. I have been looking for some real data on Android and SMP but I know recently Intel made a rare public statement about how it is not ready for even dual core utilization. I don't think Intel would make such a specific claim without data. I don't think the Exynos users are really getting much good at all from the four cores other than synthetic benchmark scores and I think they could see more benefits down the road from more memory than redundant A9 older technology additional cores.
disclaimer: I am still learning about all this so if some smart guy comes along and sees something above that is not quite right....it's not because I am making this up....it's what I understand to be true based on reading.
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You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
tylerdurdin said:
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
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right on, yeah i agree it's overkill right now. I just think within the next two years, we will easily see multiple areas where having more is better than having less. I am thinking way outside the box but I am seeing visions of custom kernels that are doing some extreme caching, even running a VM type environment.....actually I am thinking of running Android and perhaps there will be an opportunity to run Windows RT or some desktop version of Linux simultaneously......something a device with even four cores and 1GB of ram would have a hard time doing.....and that's not to say it would run well on the S4 US version either, but it is certainly more suited for it
jamesnmandy said:
right on, yeah i agree it's overkill right now. I just think within the next two years, we will easily see multiple areas where having more is better than having less. I am thinking way outside the box but I am seeing visions of custom kernels that are doing some extreme caching, even running a VM type environment.....actually I am thinking of running Android and perhaps there will be an opportunity to run Windows RT or some desktop version of Linux simultaneously......something a device with even four cores and 1GB of ram would have a hard time doing.....and that's not to say it would run well on the S4 US version either, but it is certainly more suited for it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the way you think
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
tylerdurdin said:
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are partially right. My sensation xl and my friends galaxy note works multitask pretty well with just 768mb and 1GB ram. But that was on Gingerbread. Once we upgraded to ICS multitasking suffers tremendously. He even blamed me for persuading him to do the update. For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
nativestranger said:
You are partially right. My sensation xl and my friends galaxy note works multitask pretty well with just 768mb and 1GB ram. But that was on Gingerbread. Once we upgraded to ICS multitasking suffers tremendously. He even blamed me for persuading him to do the update. For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to blame both device and OS....I am running ICS on my GS2 and have not even seen the slightest difference.....although my battery is just slightly worse.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
nativestranger said:
For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You must be running some early leeks cause some of my phones like the GS2 and the evo 3d are running ICS flawlessly.
-Overall, it's smooth but S3 is smooth too. No one can differentiate.
-The extra ripple effect when you release your hand while in the lockscreen is not present. This means that, that ripple effect that users have accustomed to in ICS will not be present in JB rom. Damn you Samsung!
-2GB of Ram equals extreme multitasking. No need to uninstall bloatwares.
-Smart rotation. a feature that can be easily enabled in S3 JB rom.
-Quick glance. while the phone's screen is turned off, user can put their hand in front of the top of the phone to summon notification for missed calls, and messages. I think this is useless.
-Multi Window. This is really a useful feature. Samfirmware tweeted that S3 will get it as well, but I'm not holding my breath. Samsung could say that S3 screen is not optimized for this feature or other ridiculous reason.
-There is no widget for "direct call, smart stay, voice cmd and S beam". this is really weird because S3 have it
So far, after trying Note 2 for a few minutes, I still love my S3. The reason is really simple, Note 2 is too large to be used as a phone. S3 is already pushing the limit, at least for me.
stfudude said:
-Overall, it's smooth but S3 is smooth too. No one can differentiate.
-The extra ripple effect when you release your hand while in the lockscreen is not present. This means that, that ripple effect that users have accustomed to in ICS will not be present in JB rom. Damn you Samsung!
-2GB of Ram equals extreme multitasking. No need to uninstall bloatwares.
-Smart rotation. a feature that can be easily enabled in S3 JB rom.
-Quick glance. while the phone's screen is turned off, user can put their hand in front of the top of the phone to summon notification for missed calls, and messages. I think this is useless.
-Multi Window. This is really a useful feature. Samfirmware tweeted that S3 will get it as well, but I'm not holding my breath. Samsung could say that S3 screen is not optimized for this feature or other ridiculous reason.
-There is no widget for "direct call, smart stay, voice cmd and S beam". this is really weird because S3 have it
So far, after trying Note 2 for a few minutes, I still love my S3. The reason is really simple, Note 2 is too large to be used as a phone. S3 is already pushing the limit, at least for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2Gb of ram is definitely equivalent to extreme multitasking. All those people who said "unused ram is wasted ram" despite my many attempts to explain how processors work, irrespective of the linux kernel, can't say anything about this now.
Anyway, multi-window is the only feature that I really want, but I doubt we'll get it.
stfudude said:
So far, after trying Note 2 for a few minutes, I still love my S3. The reason is really simple, Note 2 is too large to be used as a phone. S3 is already pushing the limit, at least for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is why the I9305 is perfect in my opinion.
disclaimernotice said:
2Gb of ram is definitely equivalent to extreme multitasking. All those people who said "unused ram is wasted ram" despite my many attempts to explain how processors work, irrespective of the linux kernel, can't say anything about this now.
Anyway, multi-window is the only feature that I really want, but I doubt we'll get it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unused ram IS wasted ram.
Nobody said that more ram isn't better, but empty ram is useless to you.
Ram uses the same amount of power whether it is full or empty.
Having full ram means more programs loaded and ready to go, less clock cycles, more efficient system.
you could have 1TB of ram, but if there is only 600mb of stuff in it, its a waste.
So, unused ram is wasted ram.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
nodstuff said:
Unused ram IS wasted ram.
Nobody said that more ram isn't better, but empty ram is useless to you.
Ram uses the same amount of power whether it is full or empty.
Having full ram means more programs loaded and ready to go, less clock cycles, more efficient system.
you could have 1TB of ram, but if there is only 600mb of stuff in it, its a waste.
So, unused ram is wasted ram.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flipside of that is that most of us never argued that unused ram is wasted ram as to power cosumption, but that it should be our ram to waste and that i9300 is seriously lacking in multitasking department when stock, because of lack of free ram not even rivaling sgs2.
Or how easy it is to load slim rom, posting screenshots of freshly reset firmware without third party apps, or screen of ram usage before all the services are loaded, or screen of freshly cleared ram, none of which are representative of real world usage.
As I recall the original thread, that mantra has always been spoken in a way strongly hinting like we got plenty and don't need more, now just adding "we never said more is not better".
Waiting for JKay mod on GT-I9300
Idan73 said:
Flipside of that is that most of us never argued that unused ram is wasted ram as to power cosumption, but that it should be our ram to waste and that i9300 is seriously lacking in multitasking department when stock, because of lack of free ram not even rivaling sgs2.
As I recall the original thread, that mantra has always been spoken in a way strongly hinting like we got plenty and don't need more, now just adding "we never said more is not better".
Waiting for JKay mod on GT-I9300
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nobody ever said less ram is better than more, at least not that I know of.
If they did they were talking sh*t.
I'm speaking from a factual point of view, not a butthurt, trying to defend my purchase point of view.
I would love if the i9300 got 2gb of ram.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
btemtd said:
Which is why the I9305 is perfect in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only I9305 get as much support as I9300..
I am not targeting specifically you, as I know from your posts you're pretty even handed and factual person.
Referring to the whole discussion at the time of release of the phone when we found out nam versions are coming with 2gb of ram.
Waiting for JKay mod on GT-I9300
---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:09 PM ----------
stfudude said:
If only I9305 get as much support as I9300..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never gonna happen.
Waiting for JKay mod on GT-I9300
Idan73 said:
I am not targeting specifically you, as I know from your posts you're pretty even handed and factual person.
Referring to the whole discussion at the time of release of the phone when we found out nam versions are coming with 2gb of ram.
Waiting for JKay mod on GT-I9300
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya we got a raw deal when it came to ram.
But that's touchwizs fault, my nexus 7 has 'only' 1gb of ram and it multitasks like a boss.
Samsung screwed the pooch when they put tw on a phone with 1gb of ram.
The S3 isn't the phone it should have been, it should have had an exynos 5 CPU and 2gb of ram.
From now on I won't buy anything Samsung because vanilla android just runs so much better than skinned versions and it isn't ugly anymore.
Plus the 4.1.1 update hasn't dropped for everyone yet and my gnex and N7 are on 4.1.2 for over a week.
With 4.2 probably being announced on the 29th I think the S3 won't ever see it.
[/tangent]
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
totally agree
me yesterday go play note 2 (officially release in my country)
everything is same, play until boring
nodstuff said:
Unused ram IS wasted ram.
Nobody said that more ram isn't better, but empty ram is useless to you.
Ram uses the same amount of power whether it is full or empty.
Having full ram means more programs loaded and ready to go, less clock cycles, more efficient system.
you could have 1TB of ram, but if there is only 600mb of stuff in it, its a waste.
So, unused ram is wasted ram.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exactly. If you have less than 100mb of free ram, when you start an app, the processor has to close several background processes in order for the app to start and work properly. This causes a momentary lag. Similarly, if you minimise an graphics intensive game to read your messages, the game is closed to obtain more ram.
disclaimernotice said:
Not exactly. If you have less than 100mb of free ram, when you start an app, the processor has to close several background processes in order for the app to start and work properly. This causes a momentary lag. Similarly, if you minimise an graphics intensive game to read your messages, the game is closed to obtain more ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That applies if you have too little ram, and I agree too little ram is not good.
My point is if you have ram and it isn't being used then it is wasted ram.
Ram is supposed to be utilised.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
stfudude said:
If only I9305 get as much support as I9300..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Even with the Mods and tweaks available right now, It is more smooth and fluid then my BEST setup I had with the I9300. So I think about it like this. Everyone is trying to find the rom which makes there phone run beautifully. Well I already have the setup . And anything that comes now is going to be a bonus. It really has only been a few weeks since a few of the devs got there hands on the devices, and I think we are moving quite nicely. Soon we will have enough dev support to make us all happy. Soon as someone starts porting roms or Creating thats when the fun really begins. We already have 3 Roms which are Basic but its still a start And I can wait as the way my phone feels right now Is absolute butterness < if thats even a word
Note2 jb no lag but think maybe due to 2gm ram
nodstuff said:
That applies if you have too little ram, and I agree too little ram is not good.
My point is if you have ram and it isn't being used then it is wasted ram.
Ram is supposed to be utilised.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have free ram then it will be reserved for more apps to be loaded which means more rams you have then more apps can be run smoothly so I wouldn't say its wasted ram. More rams you have then More apps can be loaded and stay on background and process smoothly by users input.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
In my opinion more ram is more good for our devices because yes ram does run the applications and removes a lot of lag.....I have i9300 but I am very angry that why Samsung just releases their s3 new version and broke the trust of old s3 users.....
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
mustang2012 said:
If you have free ram then it will be reserved for more apps to be loaded which means more rams you have then more apps can be run smoothly so I wouldn't say its wasted ram. More rams you have then More apps can be loaded and stay on background and process smoothly by users input.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you not read what I said?
You are basically saying what I said, more ram is better.
Un-utilised ram, is wasted.
What is so hard to understand about this concept.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
nodstuff said:
Can you not read what I said?
You are basically saying what I said, more ram is better.
Un-utilised ram, is wasted.
What is so hard to understand about this concept.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I read it already but if there is more ram the more apps u can open at a single time example when ever u open ur dailer first time it takes 3 seconds to open which feels so much annoying at some times but if u have More ram then the dailer would be covered by extra ram until u use a lot of apps together...
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
nodstuff said:
Unused ram IS wasted ram.
Nobody said that more ram isn't better, but empty ram is useless to you.
Ram uses the same amount of power whether it is full or empty.
Having full ram means more programs loaded and ready to go, less clock cycles, more efficient system.
you could have 1TB of ram, but if there is only 600mb of stuff in it, its a waste.
So, unused ram is wasted ram.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my experience, keeping the ram free is better. Your phone/tablet is smoother and faster. And there is a logical explanation for that. The OS is loading in background data from applications. If you use one of those applications, yes, it will launch faster. But if not, room has to be made, so in fact you have to wait more then.
You don't save anything by letting the apps load to full ram. In fact, you consume more resources like this, because you can have loaded apps that you don't really need/use any time soon.
It's just a gimmick. Let's load some apps, when the phone is idle, based on what ever criteria so when the user is actually launching that app, he will have the impression that the phone is faster. But your are depending on the accuracy of that criteria.
Limiting the number of background processes works wonders for me. Maybe not so much for my S3, but for other lesser devices it's very obvious.
rsndetre said:
In my experience, keeping the ram free is better. Your phone/tablet is smoother and faster. And there is a logical explanation for that. The OS is loading in background data from applications. If you use one of those applications, yes, it will launch faster. But if not, room has to be made, so in fact you have to wait more then.
You don't save anything by letting the apps load to full ram. In fact, you consume more resources like this, because you can have loaded apps that you don't really need/use any time soon.
It's just a gimmick. Let's load some apps, when the phone is idle, based on what ever criteria so when the user is actually launching that app, he will have the impression that the phone is faster. But your are depending on the accuracy of that criteria.
Limiting the number of background processes works wonders for me. Maybe not so much for my S3, but for other lesser devices it's very obvious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nonsense.
Ask anybody that knows anything about computer systems and they will tell you it is better to have a program in ram waiting to be used.
It DOES load faster, it is the basis of all os's today.
It gives the impression that it loads faster because it does load faster.
No you don't consume more resources like that, by keeping apps open in ram you cut down on clock cycles associated with opening that app every time you want to use it, yes sometimes apps are dumped out of ram but that is because the system needs more ram for a bigger app and bumps out whatever it seems necessary because of oom settings.
Limiting background processes beyond a certain point means you are losing efficiency, battery and performance.
Fact.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
New nexus 10 user here. came from an htc flyer. Anyways, android assistant shows total ram on my device as 1.2gb or so. Specs say thing has 2gb. Does any ones else's device report that or is that the way android assitant reports it? I am just wondering if i have a new device with ram issues. Also, with not much running, this things shows available ram like my Vivid (about 300gb or so ) and it is supposed to have 2x the amount of Ram.
Thanks for any insight.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
Before 4.2.2, only close to 400MB was reserved for the GPU, but apparently you could go past that limit in some cases, and it would cause userspace RAM fragmentation.
espionage724 said:
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
Before 4.2.2, only close to 400MB was reserved for the GPU, but apparently you could go past that limit in some cases, and it would cause userspace RAM fragmentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could copy that everytime a new user asks about this ram "issue", which isn't, since I saw you answered like 7 times? the same thing.
espionage724 said:
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not cheap marketing, laptop manufacturers have been doing this for ages with integrated video cards. It's a little deceptive but it's the norm for this. I the Galaxy Nexus also did it. I am not certain but I don't think any mobile device has dedicated video ram, I believe it just is not reported as missing.
The Galaxy Nexus shows as having 893mb of ram.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
lKBZl said:
You could copy that everytime a new user asks about this ram "issue", which isn't, since I saw you answered like 7 times? the same thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a problem with how I'm describing it? The Nexus 10 does have 2GB of RAM, with close to 800MB (I forget the exact amount but I know I reported it before) being reserved strictly for the GPU, and not userspace apps. I know it's not an "issue", but how I feel about it doesn't really mean too much at all though.
altimax98 said:
Not cheap marketing, laptop manufacturers have been doing this for ages with integrated video cards. It's a little deceptive but it's the norm for this. I the Galaxy Nexus also did it. I am not certain but I don't think any mobile device has dedicated video ram, I believe it just is not reported as missing.
The Galaxy Nexus shows as having 893mb of ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree it's kind of normal, but it's how much is missing that still bothers me. The Galaxy Nexus is said to have 1GB of RAM, and if what you say is true, you're missing only a tiny bit over 100MB (which, is nothing imo). The Nexus 10 on the other hand is missing nearly half the advertised amount (not literally "missing" but not usable under normal conditions).
I'm pretty sure most laptop GPU's don't take "that" much RAM either when it's not dedicated (most I've seen was 512MB shared video memory, on laptops containing 4GB of RAM; very small amount really)
espionage724 said:
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
Before 4.2.2, only close to 400MB was reserved for the GPU, but apparently you could go past that limit in some cases, and it would cause userspace RAM fragmentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the more i know and read about the n10 the more i feel being ripped off
Ripped of? For around $400-$500, you're getting a device with extremely high resolution (highest in its class EVER), a 1.7 GHz CPU with up to 2.1 possible, a software and hardware support guarantee from Google, an extremely competitive GPU, and future-proofing with the latest Android versions for years to come.
That sounds like a pretty damn good deal to me. I know I've loved my N10.
If you're having issues with your device its likely a manufacturing fault, just return it to Google and get a new one.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app
hpl912 said:
the more i know and read about the n10 the more i feel being ripped off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rip off?
Have you checked how much usable space you have after formatting a 1GB drive? The N10 delivers the specified HW but there is always overhead required to use it, no matter which OS you have. That is just a fact of computing. I would argue that you get to use ALL of the N10 hardware when you accurately account for the a running OS and apps.
Compared to Win8 RT, Android (Linux) is a skinny fashion model. Go look at the Win8 RT tablet specs then see how much usable HW is left after it boots up. Here is just one example.
espionage724 said:
Is there a problem with how I'm describing it? The Nexus 10 does have 2GB of RAM, with close to 800MB (I forget the exact amount but I know I reported it before) being reserved strictly for the GPU, and not userspace apps. I know it's not an "issue", but how I feel about it doesn't really mean too much at all though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol why do you take it like this? I just said you answered a lot of times the same, and you could copy it since i'm sure you'll have to answer that again' Where's the problem?
espionage724 said:
Is there a problem with how I'm describing it? The Nexus 10 does have 2GB of RAM, with close to 800MB (I forget the exact amount but I know I reported it before) being reserved strictly for the GPU, and not userspace apps. I know it's not an "issue", but how I feel about it doesn't really mean too much at all though.
I agree it's kind of normal, but it's how much is missing that still bothers me. The Galaxy Nexus is said to have 1GB of RAM, and if what you say is true, you're missing only a tiny bit over 100MB (which, is nothing imo). The Nexus 10 on the other hand is missing nearly half the advertised amount (not literally "missing" but not usable under normal conditions).
I'm pretty sure most laptop GPU's don't take "that" much RAM either when it's not dedicated (most I've seen was 512MB shared video memory, on laptops containing 4GB of RAM; very small amount really)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stand corrected about the Galaxy Nexus. It reports at 693 available ram.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD