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I have noticed that the HD2 gets around 26-28mflops in most of the froyo android builds, but devices like the nexus one with the same CPU manages up to 38mflops. Why do we have this difference? Is it just because android is not optimized enough for the HD2? Can we expect to eventually be able to run Android as fast as the other phones?
Thanks
I'm almost 100% sure that it will eventually be at least as fast as the nexus one..
dude if you look at the white sheet, nexus one and HD2 are almost identical, hardware wise.. the only thing that separates the two are the screen size and of course the operating system for both phones.. otherwise they're the same.. the only reason being why the HD2 is only getting 26-28 mflops as opposed to the nexus one's 38 is because the HD2's android builds are still in beta and running from the sd cards as opposed to the nexus' running from the rom which will always be faster..
krat0s123 said:
dude if you look at the white sheet, nexus one and HD2 are almost identical, hardware wise.. the only thing that separates the two are the screen size and of course the operating system for both phones.. otherwise they're the same.. the only reason being why the HD2 is only getting 26-28 mflops as opposed to the nexus one's 38 is because the HD2's android builds are still in beta and running from the sd cards as opposed to the nexus' running from the rom which will always be faster..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I made it clear that the nexus one has very similar hardware and that is why the linpack scores are of interest. The question is, will these android builds ever be optimized enough allow the HD2 to match native android devices like the N1?
Think you just answered your own question....
But to add to that, of course it will.
I think the biggest factor would be the type of sdcard running the android build in the HD2. The test didnt even mention what class sd card was used in the HD2 tests.
And of course, optimization. I have great faith in our most excellent devs. See how much weve grown by leaps and bounds ina months time. Imagine what the next few months will bring!
Cant wait for a gingerbread build
Indeed, the progress over just a month is very impressive (thanks to all the devs).
I can't wait to get a build which runs off nand and is fully optimized hehe, but I think that may take a few months?
IM running mattc's Froyo-Desire build off a class 2 8 gig sd card, and im getting the "average" 26 mflops.
I wonder how other builds running higher class sd cards are faring?
I'm running Cyanogen off an 8gb class 6 Samsung and I'm getting between 27 and 31 so around 29 on average.
27 on average with 8GB SanDisk C6...
Hmm
Linpack is purely a CPU based performance test. Why would the type of SD card make a difference? Disk access speed is not related
Factors that would impact its performance is the number of background applications. Using SetCPU and a few others.
dusty_nz said:
Hmm
Linpack is purely a CPU based performance test. Why would the type of SD card make a difference? Disk access speed is not related
Factors that would impact its performance is the number of background applications. Using SetCPU and a few others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well linpack is not only based on CPU performance.. it's much more complicated than just the CPU.. it measures the system load, cache size, memory bandwidth, accuracy of the clock, compiler settings etc.. hence, running two different WM roms would sometimes throw a considerable difference in scores.. but i agree on what you said about the performance impact when there are other applications running on the background.. and on this particular OS, everything is being loaded from our micro SD card.. ever notice the loading time difference when you install an application on your micro sd card vs your internal memory?? it might not be that much on small application but on 20-30 mb applications, you'd feel the difference for sure on our device at least..
i am getting 33 mflops on average with a class 4 8 gig sdcard.
reddog69 said:
i am getting 33 mflops on average with a class 4 8 gig sdcard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you using the latest kernals which unlock all of the memory?
I heard people who have got android running with the latest kernals are getting 38-40 mflops now.
I'm running mattc 1.5 with no changes to it, doing 28mflops or so. I have an 8gb class 6 card.
shubcraft 1.2b rom + todays manusfreedom kernel = 35,3 mflop
Crash
i get a sad 19mflop with the config mentioned in my sig. I'm ashamed... (j/k )
nks2105 said:
i get a sad 19mflop with the config mentioned in my sig. I'm ashamed... (j/k )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think if you closed your open apps (advanced task killer) and run it again you will get a better score. Run it a few times, I'm sure you will get at least 27+.
mattc 1.5 with 11-08 manusfreedom kernel
8gb class 2
29.845
I got 40 the other day...
In order to compare like with like we need to know
US or European
Size and class of SD card
And which android build you are using.
Now to try mine, I have 3 builds on my SD card.
Jack E said:
I got 40 the other day...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you give us your phone info?
Build? Kernal? etc
Hi all,
I'm going to finally have some spare time this weekend and might even get to have a mess around with Android on my HD2 if I get lucky! My concern is that I have a 16GB Class2 microSD in my Leo and while looking at HD2 stuff on ebay came across this.
The seller states that Android won't run (properly?) on his 16gb Class2 and includes a Class6 8gb card aswell for this purpose.
What's everyone's experience with running Android on a slower card? From looking around I've seen people saying 'there isn't much difference' for most things but a lot of contridictions for others.
Thanks gang!
I have no issues with my Android build currently, and it's on a 4gb Class 2 SD card.
It does help having a faster one, but It's not the end of the world.
Phil
Have been testing out froyostone sense build on a 2gb class 2 card and it's like lightening So yes, would format first though otherwise you will get lag.
Cheers - yep I won't forget to format, been reading the threads while working this week... taken in loads of info, just need to find the time to actually get it rolling
I was wondering the same thing. I installed froyostone 08.07.2010 using miri Rom on stock radio on a friends hd2 and it freezes and comes back to life very often. Would a higher class sdcard solve his problem?
I think they guy on eBay is talking rubbish. I run darkstone's 2.2 perfectly well on a 16GB Class 2. A Class 4 would probably help a little bit, but I'm not that fussed really.
I'd be more concerned about getting dodgy copies of Transformers from them!!
murdaralph said:
I was wondering the same thing. I installed froyostone 08.07.2010 using miri Rom on stock radio on a friends hd2 and it freezes and comes back to life very often. Would a higher class sdcard solve his problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole OS and all animations etc, or just touch screen response?
If its the touch screen, that's a known issue and will be addressed in due course.
Phil
It's in german, but i guess u may figure it out.
h**p://***.chip.de/bestenlisten/Bestenliste-microSD-Karten--index/detail/id/867/
I have a kingston class 2 , not working.
qingcai said:
I have a kingston class 2 , not working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A Little more information would be useful, what's not working about it? How's it formatted? Has it even been formatted and then had a new build copied to it?
Phil
i never had issues with a class 2 before... no SOD or anything... although after switching to class 4, there is noticeable speed. now in class 10, a lot faster. but no real issues in class 2 except a tad slower (but decent speed nonetheless)
I use the 16gb class 2 card and its quick with decent quadrant tests. I think its because android loads into ram (please correct me if I am wrong, ill search for this later). I think there are apps that read or write to folders on the SD card that would gain from speed of a class 6 or 10 card and if I am right about loading to ram the boot up time could receive a benefit.
Personally I am looking to get one just to access media faster and for taking pics and vids as there is a write delay that's typical with all phones. If it helps android in its current state the cool but I'm not in a rush. Development here have made great strides in making android snappy and android is an awesome is as it is for handling background tasks. Much to the credit of Linux but I find android to be a faster evolution then most mobile oses. Much to the credit of being open source and encourage community development. Nothing here is illegal but maybe some grey areas in closed source distributing which cyanogen had an interesting situation that was resolved quickly with Google's assistance.
But I am off topic now. Yes it would help with some things but don't break the piggy bank over it.
Hope my thoughts are helpful. It would be better to get feedback from those that have done it and get before and after boot, quad, and market download responsiveness tests. I may have a class 6 8gb card somewhere I can test later tonight. I would do fresh sdformatter formats with nothing but android on the card to get a somewhat standard benchmark.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Mine is 16gb class 2, with the latest fullram zimage, i score 29.2fps in neocore test
and can play sparta! very smooth, also the asphalt 5
kerman19 said:
The whole OS and all animations etc, or just touch screen response?
If its the touch screen, that's a known issue and will be addressed in due course.
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the touch screen. The SD card was quick formatted. Would that make a difference in the builds performance ?
I'm using a Kingston class 2, but it performs with 5,5MBs writing speed when used in a computer slot, so in practice its a class 5,5. Works great! Froyostone sense v1
pappadj said:
I use the 16gb class 2 card and its quick with decent quadrant tests. I think its because android loads into ram (please correct me if I am wrong, ill search for this later). I think there are apps that read or write to folders on the SD card that would gain from speed of a class 6 or 10 card and if I am right about loading to ram the boot up time could receive a benefit.
Personally I am looking to get one just to access media faster and for taking pics and vids as there is a write delay that's typical with all phones. If it helps android in its current state the cool but I'm not in a rush. Development here have made great strides in making android snappy and android is an awesome is as it is for handling background tasks. Much to the credit of Linux but I find android to be a faster evolution then most mobile oses. Much to the credit of being open source and encourage community development. Nothing here is illegal but maybe some grey areas in closed source distributing which cyanogen had an interesting situation that was resolved quickly with Google's assistance.
But I am off topic now. Yes it would help with some things but don't break the piggy bank over it.
Hope my thoughts are helpful. It would be better to get feedback from those that have done it and get before and after boot, quad, and market download responsiveness tests. I may have a class 6 8gb card somewhere I can test later tonight. I would do fresh sdformatter formats with nothing but android on the card to get a somewhat standard benchmark.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have experience with your G1, the class 6 I use on mine makes definite difference when running apps from your sd card. I've been alternating using my 16 GB Class 2 and my 8 GB Class 6 in my HD2 but I haven't seen any speed difference with android so I believe that it runs on the internal ram.
i think class 2 is enough
murdaralph said:
the touch screen. The SD card was quick formatted. Would that make a difference in the builds performance ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Touch Screen lag/freezing is a known issue right now and doesn't relate to the SD card.
It's being worked on.
Phil
I have a class 2 16GB sandisk drive and score 1578 in quadrant standard, that said i usually get write speeds of around 6MB/sec on my computer
i personally think it helps a bit ( i ws previously running Android off the 16GB class 2 card the HD2 came with) but experienced some lag when scrolling.
That said, it was an early build of Android so it was probably just that.
The thing is, 8GB class6 cards are relatively cheap to buy (i picked up an A-DATA 8GB class 6 for $21 canadian at CanadaComputers)
so..why not upgrade to the class6 card? I'm sure it wouldn't hurt and no matter what you'll experience at least have SOME sort of performance gain in other aspects (music, pictures, file managers, etc)
I'm wondering whether there's a way to test the internal NAND speed, then we can compare and balance whether to use extend SD card.
I have a Sandisk Class4 !6G microsd which has 19M/16M read and write, but if the NAND still much faster than this card, im considering to use internal storage only(less mp3 and game instead), its hard to balance.
Sorry to re-awaken an old thread, but since you've had no reply: I had the same question, and found an app in the Market called "Android Hacker's System Tool" that includes a storage speed test (among many other things).
On my Motorola Droid1 running MIUI (not o/c'ed currently), I was shocked to see NAND speeds of only 1.9 MB/s read and 0.21 MB/s write. The OEM 16gb SD card showed a bit over 2 MB/s for both read and write... at least symmetrical, but still very slow. No wonder apps on the SD card seem just as quick as those in NAND!
Any thoughts as to why IO is this poor overall, and why NAND write in particular is so pathetic? The phone feels very smooth right now.
Why do you post questions about your Droid in a Windows Phone forum? Samsung Focus is Windows Phone 7. There is nothing in common with your Droid.
rvonder, interest numbers, thanks for the post. I'm a little surprised at the low numbers as well. Especially the writes. Hopefully we will have a test app for WP7 soon.
Just going by deduction from here. If the phone feels snappy even with those numbers, isn't it safe to assume it doesn't matter ?
rvonder said:
Sorry to re-awaken an old thread, but since you've had no reply: I had the same question, and found an app in the Market called "Android Hacker's System Tool" that includes a storage speed test (among many other things).
On my Motorola Droid1 running MIUI (not o/c'ed currently), I was shocked to see NAND speeds of only 1.9 MB/s read and 0.21 MB/s write. The OEM 16gb SD card showed a bit over 2 MB/s for both read and write... at least symmetrical, but still very slow. No wonder apps on the SD card seem just as quick as those in NAND!
Any thoughts as to why IO is this poor overall, and why NAND write in particular is so pathetic? The phone feels very smooth right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
foxbat121 said:
Why do you post questions about your Droid in a Windows Phone forum? Samsung Focus is Windows Phone 7. There is nothing in common with your Droid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rather than waste anybody's time, please read the question first next time, it has nothing to do specificaly with android but rather about the use of external memory card considering the Focus uses built-in NAND memory that might be much faster than the external memory (or not). Since Windows 7 phone "merges" both memory, it would most likely be at the speed of the slowes of both...
thegarmac said:
rather than waste anybody's time, please read the question first next time, it has nothing to do specificaly with android but rather about the use of external memory card considering the Focus uses built-in NAND memory that might be much faster than the external memory (or not). Since Windows 7 phone "merges" both memory, it would most likely be at the speed of the slowes of both...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you read his question? He was asking why his Droid phone SD card IO is so slow. First of all the Android app in question does something really stupid. Last time I checked, it gives out really low IO score on my Captivate as well. So, I'd say it is the app that's not really designed well, or could be Android OS doesn't offer a good API for testing the SD performance. None of these are related to how WP7 works. As you mentioned above, WP7 treats memory differently and no one knows exactly how SD performance affects entire system (we knew that most 'faster' SD cards don't work). And we don't have any app to test native IO speeds of the combined memory. So, this is really comparing apples to oranges.
i'm quite happily running Android from my SD card. Thinking about going down the NAND road
but the question is...is it worth it? Will i notice a big change or should i just stay as it is?
Thanks
No, you will most likely not.
I still recommend doing it if you don't use WinMo, because there sure are advantages but don't expect miracles.
Personally, I've found battery life better with all the NAND builds I've tried - probably about 50% better. I assume this is because it takes more power to read/write to/from the SD card all the time.
This is obviously just my personal experience though.
Well, you will get some better battery life, as well it will be smoother.
If you don't use WinMo, I'd recommend it.
Just my personal experience.
Battery life simply cannot be compared to SD versions. It's much better in nand. Also file transfer works as it should.
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
You can also connect to the phone in debugging mode, with NAND, which I never could using SD builds.
Not much of a deal to most people, but for anyone interested in developing for Android it's a BIG deal!
johncmolyneux said:
Personally, I've found battery life better with all the NAND builds I've tried - probably about 50% better. I assume this is because it takes more power to read/write to/from the SD card all the time.
This is obviously just my personal experience though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some people have had drastic improvements because they used 'bad' SD cards (as in badly compatible with Android, not 'bad' in se). If you compare the battery life of an SD build with a proper card, NAND really doesn't give much more juice, simply because the major part of battery consumption is due to hardware stuff such as screen, CPU, ...
The biggest difference for me is battery life aswell, as others have already stated.
I get 2-4mA in standby on most builds
StephanV said:
Some people have had drastic improvements because they used 'bad' SD cards (as in badly compatible with Android, not 'bad' in se). If you compare the battery life of an SD build with a proper card, NAND really doesn't give much more juice, simply because the major part of battery consumption is due to hardware stuff such as screen, CPU, ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said to OP, it was just my personal experience. I was using a SanDisk 8GB Class 6 card that I've had 0 issues with, so I could only put the battery life difference down to r/w times. It's apparent in other things as well, like when you bring up the application list in settings. It used to take a good 5-10 seconds to get the icons for all the apps, but now it's less than a second.
It's only little things like that that I really notice. Overall performance doesn't seem much better.
Hey nothing personal man, I was just informing you why you experienced this drastic improvement. Like I said, with a bad card I didn't mean bad as in not good, but just not well compatible with Android on SD - no one really had an explanation as to why certain cards performed better than others, and there wasn't a predictable pattern either. The most expensive cards could very well be the worst compatible.
StephanV said:
Some people have had drastic improvements because they used 'bad' SD cards (as in badly compatible with Android, not 'bad' in se). If you compare the battery life of an SD build with a proper card, NAND really doesn't give much more juice, simply because the major part of battery consumption is due to hardware stuff such as screen, CPU, ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true... I just went back to using SD builds because I'm dual-booting with wp7, and battery life on my sd builds are pretty much the same for me. I get as low as 3ma on standby with my jdms and hd2one sd builds. I'm using a class 2 sandisk, which seems to have the best random access speed out of all the sd cards I tested, and has a very low power consumption. For anyone buying a new card to run wp7 or to run android off of, I would definitely suggest a class 2 sandisk over any other class or brand of card. Quality class 2 cards generally have better battery life and better random access speeds (which is what matters the most for running an OS off the card) than higher class cards, which are made to have higher sequential write speeds.
StephanV said:
Hey nothing personal man
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
???
I know mate! If I sounded defensive, then I shouldn't have. I was just responding to what you said
Sorry if I came across wrong.
Hello,
currently, im running a class 6 micro sd card in my hd2. Now, if i replace the card with a class 10, is there a boost i would 'feel'? Or is there no real difference in performance, only on paper?
Normally, no. You'll feel difference only when copying very big files over long time(say large movie over card reader as HD2 hardware bandwith is also limited). For normal, everyday use SD 4 or 6 class is the best choice.
retsam88 said:
Normally, no. You'll feel difference only when copying very big files over long time(say large movie over card reader as HD2 hardware bandwith is also limited). For normal, everyday use SD 4 or 6 class is the best choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using a 32GB Class 4 SanDisk (partitioned into two 16GB chunks) for my WP7.5 and Android. SD Android builds do tend to seem laggy at times.... is this expected?
abdelazeez said:
I'm using a 32GB Class 4 SanDisk (partitioned into two 16GB chunks) for my WP7.5 and Android. SD Android builds do tend to seem laggy at times.... is this expected?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. Some SD builds are faster than others, though NAND Android is always superior to SD builds.
Also keep in mind overall Android speed is determined by random access, not sequential(micro SD class!) write/read.
in my experience, the class label placed by the manufacturer is misleading.
the class rating doesn't really talk about maximum speed. instead, it talks about the minimum guaranteed speed. it is best to read benchmarks before you go for a particular sd card.
for example, i used an 8GB sandisk class 2. this means that the card can at least demonstrate class 2 performance. in practice, it was FAST!!! gave about 10+MB read speed and about 7+MB write speed.
then i got a 32GB kingston class 4. this means that the card can at least demonstrate class 4 performance. in practice, it was slower than my previous 8GB sandisk. got about 10+MB read speed and about 3+MB write speed.
so, in conclusion, no one can reliably tell you if a particular card model will feel faster. like others have mentioned, there are already complications like differences in nand and sd and even differences between two seemingly similar nand builds, for example. when we talk about comparisons and observations that YOU will perceive as a result of your purchase, we are really talking about what improvements (or lack of) you will feel in comparison to your existing card. and all we can tell about your existing card or the one you intend to get is the misleading class label on the card.
sd nand
Thx for the info guys!
NAND Android is always superior to SD builds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which leads me to another question...
Does anybody know numbers about the performance differences between SD and NAND builds? SD builds differ in speed, retsam88 already said that, but are there some rough numbers?
Are there devices which are known for fast/slow NANDs (or other significant characteristics)? Or are the NANDs identical in every device? Maybe a link?
Sorry for asking stupid questions but I'm pretty new to the customROM-stuff and also want to get some technical background knowledge before diving in in october with the studies .... again, thanks in advance!
Since I had my HD2 like months ago I was always using SD-Roms cause their easy to use via MagLdr & I thought the speed was OK but as you go on using it it becomes laggy...
then I tried an AOKP NAND & there was a significant difference in speed, so now i'm stuck in using NAND Roms., BTW my SD card was a Class 10 type :silly:
moson said:
Thx for the info guys!
Which leads me to another question...
Does anybody know numbers about the performance differences between SD and NAND builds? SD builds differ in speed, retsam88 already said that, but are there some rough numbers?
Are there devices which are known for fast/slow NANDs (or other significant characteristics)? Or are the NANDs identical in every device? Maybe a link?
Sorry for asking stupid questions but I'm pretty new to the customROM-stuff and also want to get some technical background knowledge before diving in in october with the studies .... again, thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are very interesting questions must say
As for differences, I'll give you my personal observations:
-Booting up system is both fast on SD and NAND builds.
-Stability is superior on NAND(because SD can corrupt badly if used incorrectly)
-Installing apps is way faster on NAND(say, 15-60sec improvement)
-NAND got limited write/read cycles(a lot though) so SD builds keeps HD2 healthy longer.
-games running on NAND android seems to be bit faster(depends, sometimes 1-3FPS more, sometimes hell of a lot 20FPS+)
As for NAND speeds, HD2 was manufactured by mass scale, so NAND speeds seems to be relative similar with every device. With microSD you got many manufacturers, big companies, small companies, fake companies so results differ a lot. Also SD cards tend to get replaced faster.
Also feel free to ask further questions.
more questions
Cool! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge
retsam88 said:
As for NAND speeds, HD2 was manufactured by mass scale, so NAND speeds seems to be relative similar with every device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I meant the speed differences between a HD2 and a Desire for example, or HTC and Samsung in general.
NAND got limited write/read cycles(a lot though) so SD builds keeps HD2 healthy longer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SD cards also have limited cycles, don't they?
Also feel free to ask further questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
awww yeeeah, prepare
I hope it's ok, also with an eye on the moderators, coz the thread title is pretty misleading now
Is there a way to replace the NAND?
If so, how much does it cost and can you replace it yourself?
Are there some smartphones/tablets without NANDs?
Which phones are known for having big/small internal storage space?
Which one is more resistant against magnetic influences: NAND or SD?
Beside microSD, are there any more relevant card types used in mobile devices?
If you look towards future, any changes (especially hardware) coming soon? like card type changes, notably increased NAND speed/storage space/
A lot of questions I know, just curious, if you guys know answers, don't hesitate to post ))
and thanks again!
moson said:
Is there a way to replace the NAND?
If so, how much does it cost and can you replace it yourself?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically it's possible but very hard and time consuming.
moson said:
Which phones are known for having big/small internal storage space?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Older phones tend to have small user space, for example HTC Canary got 24MB ROM lol
moson said:
Are there some smartphones/tablets without NANDs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably, no. Every phone needs some sort of operating system residing in NAND
moson said:
Which phones are known for having big/small internal storage space?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look for HTC One X series.
moson said:
Which one is more resistant against magnetic influences: NAND or SD?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually NAND is a way of storing information, both internal HD2 memory and SD cards are built with NAND. We just call HD2 internal memory in short- NAND. NAND is very resistant.
moson said:
Beside microSD, are there any more relevant card types used in mobile devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not much other than microSD, though I saw some smartphones using compact flash mem.
moson said:
If you look towards future, any changes (especially hardware) coming soon? like card type changes, notably increased NAND speed/storage space/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, in short, SSD tech in smartphones.