Is it possible/safe to connect an external battery of same voltage but different mAh directly to the internal battery of a tablet to raise its mAh?
I am thinking about moding a tablet case to have a built in battery pack for my Iconia a500 tablet. I can easily squeeze 4 cell phone batteries in between the folds and make two 3.6v 3000mAh(or higher) battery pack with out adding much bulk or weight to it. can probably squeeze a usb hub in there too while i am at it.
I looked at the internal battery and it looks like i can splice its wires and add a connector to hook to the two 3.6v packs for easy connection.
I don't know much about electronics, but from my limited knowledge and layman point of view, as far as the tablet is concerns, it will just have a higher capacity battery, wont it?
can it be done safely without any other electronic components?
I'm not expert in that matter, but I think there's LiIon battery, and AFAIK it may make some confusement to your Fuel Gauge IC and Battery Charging IC, as these are probably calibrated to work with that certain battery type and capacitance. But I don't believe it may damage something if you connect it paralelly.
I would be careful with that if I were you. While it seems simple enough, batteries are much more complex than just voltage and capacity.
Most of the time, external batteries just go through the charging connection of the device so it can handle the power itself. If you connect it directly, you may bypass some part of the charging circuit (often times there's a circuit in the battery itself). Basically, I'm thinking the batteries may not fully charge or one will overcharge. It really depends on how it's set up. I'm not an expert with the design of rechargeable batteries though, so it may be safe.
In short, I would suggest connecting the batteries to the charger to extend your battery life. I'm sure others can offer additional insight.
A good read about batteries: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/serial_and_parallel_battery_configurations
I can't comment on if it will work or if it is safe..
cellphone batteries have a built in protection to prevent them from overcharging or discharging, don't they?
The problem i have with connecting to the charging port is that it needs 12v. connecting 3 or 4 of battereis will give me either too little or too much volt. cant get 12v out of 3.7v batteries with out some kind of additional electronic parts to regulate the voltage. I don't have the sufficient knowledge to do that. this is why i figured ill do it directly. And charging would be simpler too if i can use the charger to charge both the internal and the external batteries at the same time.
Was hopping to hear from someone who did that already. I guess no one is brave/dumb enough to try it.
Sounds intresting looking forward for it
In a "perfect" environment this would be possible.
The inner resistance and voltage difference of the different batteries would even out the different capacity while charging.
You can avoid having these currents between the batteries by using diodes to separate the charging currents.
However my recommendations in terms of reliability, safety and efficiency is to use two or more batteries with the same capacity and dis-/charging curve.
is it the phone or the battery that cuts current when the battery is fully charged?
ridethisbike said:
is it the phone or the battery that cuts current when the battery is fully charged?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On most phones tablets etc. it's the device that cuts off the charging current when the battery is fully charged.
However nearly ever batteries has also a protection circuit that cuts off the battery in case of
under, over voltage and over current, sometimes even over temperature.
samotronta05 said:
On most phones tablets etc. it's the device that cuts off the charging current when the battery is fully charged.
However nearly ever batteries has also a protection circuit that cuts off the battery in case of
under, over voltage and over current, sometimes even over temperature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah, well it seems to me that if the battery has to take action, then you're doing it wrong.
I'm not sure exactly how diodes work so I can't comment on that, but definitely use like batteries (two 3000mAh batteries as opposed to one 3000mAh and one 3600mAh) as to not confuse the device about the charge, causing the 3600 to not get fully charged. just make sure they get connected properly (in parallel) and it should work just fine.
in reality its no different than someone using 4 car batteries to power their car audio system. as long as its done properly (in parallel), there is really no harm.
I wouldn't recommend it. While technically it is something that you can do like other posters have said the internal power system is configured in a particular matter. It is likely that the regulation and protection are minimal if they only expect the internal battery. There is also the issue of charging, if you did as you say, you would be discharging the batteries into each other if they weren't exactly at the same levels. So this isn't the recommend method.
What I would recommend you do is put them together so you get something over six volts (two 3.6V packs in series) and put a 5V regulator on it. Then connect it to a USB cable and charge through there. That way you utilize the systems built in protection, aren't messing with the battery connections and can swap it in much easier.
You can... as far as u meet these requirements.
1) notice ur original battery voltage..
2) buy some same kind of them, or u may use others, provided the voltage is same. If u can find higher watt-hour( current) battery of same voltage, go for it.
3) never mix up different amp/ voltage rated batteries together. Ie if u have 3.7v 3200ma batt, and planning to add one more batt in parallel to it go for another 3.7v 3200ma , and not 3.7v 1500ma or 3.5 v 3200ma batt.
4) if u cant find a higher capacity batt of same voltage, go for parallels. Ie join together the positives of two or more batt, and also join together their negatives too.. connect it to the batt terminals of tab,
5) no problems will be caused if u use high current batt, provided u have suited the correct voltage. In ur case u have to ensure proper voltage only. And current can increase to any value.. the system takes only what its needed.
6) the sad thing is it will take more time for charging. But never try to increase the charging current. It will damage the power section. But increase ur patients. Most of the tabs got 1-1.5 amp charger. Never increase the limits.
U may go for it. If u can manage these...
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
giritrobbins said:
I would recommend it. While technically it is something that you can do like other posters have said the internal power system is configured in a particular matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, to charge with a constant current until a certain voltage is reached.
giritrobbins said:
There is also the issue of charging, if you did as you say, you would be discharging the batteries into each other if they weren't exactly at the same levels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, this is the main problem and it's also the reason i recommended using two batteries with the same capacity. Otherwise the constant charge and discharge depending on the size of the difference between the batteries makes the system very inefficient.
giritrobbins said:
What I would recommend you do is put them together so you get something over six volts (two 3.6V packs in series) and put a 5V regulator on it. Then connect it to a USB cable and charge through there. That way you utilize the systems built in protection, aren't messing with the battery connections and can swap it in much easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which would make it even more inefficient.
showlyshah said:
3) never mix up different amp/ voltage rated batteries together. Ie if u have 3.7v 3200ma batt, and planning to add one more batt in parallel to it go for another 3.7v 3200ma , and not 3.7v 1500ma or 3.5 v 3200ma batt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can mix up different batteries when the voltage is the same, however this is not a the recommend way, since you will not encounter much gain in capacity.
The in terms of capacity smaller battery will be charged by the bigger one all the time.
However if you say i don't care about the efficiency then you can mix up for e.g. a 3.7v 3200mAh and a 3.7v 3000mAh battery.
samotronta05 said:
Yes, to charge with a constant current until a certain voltage is reached.
Yes, this is the main problem and it's also the reason i recommended using two batteries with the same capacity. Otherwise the constant charge and discharge depending on the size of the difference between the batteries makes the system very inefficient.
Which would make it even more inefficient.
You can mix up different batteries when the voltage is the same, however this is not a the recommend way, since you will not encounter much gain in capacity.
The in terms of capacity smaller battery will be charged by the bigger one all the time.
However if you say i don't care about the efficiency then you can mix up for e.g. a 3.7v 3200mAh and a 3.7v 3000mAh battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue when you connect them like that will always occur when they are in parallel (you need to add some logic or some diodes in there). Using the same ampacity battery will mitigate it to a point but the internal resistance of a battery will dictate how fast it drains down.
As for the charging, that isn't what i am saying. The internal circuitry that he cannot change is expecting a certain battery with certain characteristics. Putting a second battery in there in parallel will potentially mess with that stuff. If it doesn't realize the size of all the attached battery it will register a fault because it won't be charging correctly.
He isn't going for efficiency here. And a linear regulator is easy, if we want efficient we can do that too. I was just suggesting an alternative that could be easily done.
And the most important point is not about voltages but about chemistry. Different chemistry have different voltages and different knees where they drop suddenly.
The original battery is 7.4v 3350mah. and the charger is 12v 1.5a.
so matching or passing that with batteries I can fit in the space I want it to fit in is a problem.
I was going to use 4 i9000 1500mah batteries, which would fit perfectly, to make a 7.4v 3000mha. but that would be lower then the original. i guess i can try to find higher capacity batteries that i can fit in the case
But if i understand it correctly, the current will keep flowing from the larger capacity battery to the lower one, it will keep them at 100% until the original will drop to lets say 3000mah and then they will all drain at the same rate until they are all empty. and when i charge them, the charging circuitry will get its information only from the original battery, so it will keep charging until the original is full. it may not be as efficient, but it should still get me a significant boost, wouldn't it.
I suppose I could connect them all to make a 14.8v 1500mha with a 12v regulator and use the charging port, but that will leave me with the problem of charging the external pack. no idea how to do that. how do i cheaply and safely charge a 14.8v battery pack?
ronkoni said:
The original battery is 7.4v 3350mah. and the charger is 12v 1.5a.
so matching or passing that with batteries I can fit in the space I want it to fit in is a problem.
I was going to use 4 i9000 1500mah batteries, which would fit perfectly, to make a 7.4v 3000mha. but that would be lower then the original. i guess i can try to find higher capacity batteries that i can fit in the case
But if i understand it correctly, the current will keep flowing from the larger capacity battery to the lower one, it will keep them at 100% until the original will drop to lets say 3000mah and then they will all drain at the same rate until they are all empty. and when i charge them, the charging circuitry will get its information only from the original battery, so it will keep charging until the original is full. it may not be as efficient, but it should still get me a significant boost, wouldn't it.
I suppose I could connect them all to make a 14.8v 1500mha with a 12v regulator and use the charging port, but that will leave me with the problem of charging the external pack. no idea how to do that. how do i cheaply and safely charge a 14.8v battery pack?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey why are u going to make a 14.8v batt pack when urz original ones are 7.4??? I dont realy understand the logic. If u have extra batt, then make the pack like this
Batt pack of 7.4v × 2 and connect them in parallel, thatz all, no need to modify charging circuits, no need to regulate the voltage, and no loss in voltage/ current,
But if u make a high voltage pack, u have to regulate the o/p with some ic, and in turn u will suffer some v/c drop.
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
i like to connect directly to the battery, but some seem to believe it is not wise if the mAh of the original is higher then the external pack.
The 14.8v pack with a 12v regulator option is for use with the tablet's charging connector which require 12v . A safer option, but leaves me with the charging problem.
ronkoni said:
i like to connect directly to the battery, but some seem to believe it is not wise if the mAh of the original is higher then the external pack.
The 14.8v pack with a 12v regulator option is for use with the tablet's charging connector which require 12v . A safer option, but leaves me with the charging problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-2-0-fem...ultDomain_0&hash=item3f0cd836f3#ht_2792wt_902
that actually took me a lot longer to find than I had originally planned... lol. of course.... you're going to have to find the rest of your charger. but that'll be easy with that adapter
So its a about making a batt pack which u can connect to the tab via charging port? And use it like a backup when u r out of power?
If its ur idea, you may tell about the size of the pack, and how long u need to use it( ie backup time), if u do, i will find out the solution, also post ur current batt and charger spec.
And hope i can help with some circuits too..
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
the idea is to have a battery pack that can fit in between the layers of the stand part of this tablet's case. the available space I want to use is about 2"x9" so since the space is limited, the batteries must be the flat type and be able to get 12v out of them and be able to charge them externally.
this is the original tablet battery and the charger is 12v 1.5a.
4x Samsung i9000 1500mAh batteries fits perfectly. and since i already got 2 extra ones laying around, might as well go with these batteries. unless it is possible to get 12v out of 3 batteries. then i can probably use 3 Samsung note 2500mAh batteries instead.
so, what circuitry do i need to make this thing power the tablet and get charged?
thought about getting one of these battery packs, take it apart and replace its batteries with mine. since it already got the necessary circuitry for regulating the voltage and for charging, it would cut down on the guess work and probably be cheaper to build. i think they use 3 batteries in there which would be better.
Related
Hey..
I want to make a pretty big backup battery for my TD2 or any other device that charges using a USB port.
I have 8 recharchable AA batteries (1,5V and 1800 mAh each) and want them in pairs off 4.
So two pairs off 6V packs and a total off 3600mAh.
But how do i acctually make this? Because i want to just plug it in some power socket so it will recharge the backup battery..
And when i need it. i just plug my phone in the backup battery so it will recharge and last ALLOT longer.
generally speaking, good socket adapters and car adapters (original ones too) have an automatic switch off when the battery gets fully charged. failing to do so can dramatically reduce the life of your battery. i think a safer (and more elegant too) solution is to buy a spare battery.
Sounds like hard work to me
Would something like this be better, I know its not as powerful as what you are proposing, and it has the cut out built into it as well.
PowerMonkey Classic
or get what I have which is this
Powermonkey Explorer
Highly recommended
PS Topic probably in wrong place, Accessories better place !?!
It charges via USB, mains, solar, has extra connectors for alot of devices.
Just my input...
If it was my problem, I would make a very simple constant current charger using a disused 19V laptop supply (doesn't everyone have one?) and a series resistor. The resistor value should be calculated from the charging current. You shouldn't go for a high current because you would need to cut off the charging when complete, or the cells would get very hot and be damaged. Proper chargers do this, but it takes a relatively complex circuit to manage the charge.
A low charge current (less than a tenth of the cell capacity) is good for cell lifespan and is safe to leave connected for a while even when the charge is complete without damaging the cell. The only drawback is a long charge time. I would select a current which charges fully in about 22 hours, so you put it on charge at a certain time and remove it next day at the same time - easy to remember.
With a 19V supply and a battery pack voltage of about 5 volts, a current of 200mA would need a resistor of value 70 Ohms - the nearest actual value is 68 ohms. Power rating would need to be 3W absolute minimum, try to get a 5W part. Your 3600mA pack should be charged after 22-24 hours. If your old laptop supply is different from 19V, you need to calculate the resistor accordingly. A low voltage supply wouldn't be suitable, because the charging current would vary too much.
Two points: Be sure to get the polarity of the laptop supply correct, and always have the supply connected to the mains when the battery pack is connected to it (otherwise the battery pack will try to put a current back through the supply, which it might not like!). Or you could incorporate a series 1A diode to protect against that happening.
I'm using a very simple supply like this to charge a 5v pack over 24 hours (it's from a bluetooth speaker - the internal charging circuit blew up) and it's perfect - I expect a long lifespan for the cells.
It's worth pointing out that putting 2 banks of cells in parallel, as you intend to, is not ideal unless the cells are matched, but in practice it shouldn't matter much.
there are 5v regulators u can buy to make your circuit work at 5v what is nice about that is that i can step up and step down voltages if the voltage fluctuates(battery power levels), btw the phones do the auto shutoff when the battery is full not the charger, because charger does not have a feedback system to read battery levels. Why do u think there is 3 or some times 4 connections on a battery and not 2
the problems u might encounter are amp levels due to long term charging but 4 1800mA AA battery will do a good charge for your phone
anyway here is a 5v reg from radioshack as referrence
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062599
jngtt said:
there are 5v regulators u can buy to make your circuit work at 5v what is nice about that is that i can step up and step down voltages if the voltage fluctuates(battery power levels), btw the phones do the auto shutoff when the battery is full not the charger, because charger does not have a feedback system to read battery levels. Why do u think there is 3 or some times 4 connections on a battery and not 2
the problems u might encounter are amp levels due to long term charging but 4 1800mA AA battery will do a good charge for your phone
anyway here is a 5v reg from radioshack as referrence
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062599
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I might be misunderstanding you, but if you mean charging the cells from a 5v regulator, that would be a bad idea. NiCad or NiMH cells shouldn't and can't be charged from a constant voltage source. When you start charging the current would be too high (the 7805 would probably switch itself off) and the charge would never finish either, as 4 cells in series have an endpoint voltage of about 5.6 - 6.0V.
But perhaps you didn't mean that... (in which case apologies for butting in)
Pete_S said:
I might be misunderstanding you, but if you mean charging the cells from a 5v regulator, that would be a bad idea. NiCad or NiMH cells shouldn't and can't be charged from a constant voltage source. When you start charging the current would be too high (the 7805 would probably switch itself off) and the charge would never finish either, as 4 cells in series have an endpoint voltage of about 5.6 - 6.0V.
But perhaps you didn't mean that... (in which case apologies for butting in)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 5v regulator just sets the voltage to be 5 volts as with all usb ports and usb chargers, the HTC charger that comes with the phones pushes 2A, the usb ports on our PCs pushes 0.5A. Ampere is just current, if u think that is too much amps u can put a fuse. This is the first time someone told me constant is bad
btw do u know how cells and battery work?
Going back to the original post, Overloaded just wanted a way to recharge his proposed battery pack from the mains, if I read it correctly.
I don't see where a 7805 5V regulator fits into this, either for charging the phone (the battery pack is 5-6V and the 7805 needs at least 7V to function) or for charging the battery pack (for reasons I've already outlined).
u are right, he does not need the 5v reg, infact all he needs to do is put the battery in serise with a diode to prevent feedback and he should be fine
Slightly off topic,
I recently got hold of two 11v LiPo packs, a regulator, a fast charger and all the cable and connectors to buils a 4400 mAh power souce. At 5v this gives circa. 8800 mAh. I bought it in a model shop sale and I've wanted to play around with the setup for some time.
The two packs are to big, but one on it's own is not too bad. And they were cheap!
Hello,
i ve been searching for a way to extend the autonomy on the a501.
do you think i can use a cheap 12V lithium battery to charge it or take over when the internal battery is depleted ?
i m not very knowledgeable in electronics, i wouldnt want to damage the internal battery.
there seem to be very few commercial products that would fit this tablet and i m not really interested. i dont have 50$ for a +2h battery life --;
i was thinking of buying a 12V 5000mAh something battery from china and solder the appropriate DC connector on it, but im wondering if there are issues like, the Current needs to be stable at 1,5A or i might reduce the internal battery durability, things like that.
can anyone answer that ?
It's more complicated than that. The power supply probably has a circuit to regulate the flow of energy to the tablet, perhaps the tablet itself also has a circuit that works together, I don't know.
Short answer: buy a second power adapter
There are backup battery/chargers. Scosche goBAT for example.
Just Google around to find the best fit for you.
GullyFoyle said:
There are backup battery/chargers. Scosche goBAT for example.
Just Google around to find the best fit for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How would that work? Does the goBAT include a charging tip compatible with the A500?
Hello,
thanks for dropping by
its not helping really this is bs
power cat you say "probably" regulates the current. yes that is what i wrote that is what i hoped someone would clear up for me. i dont see how buying another wall charger is going to help me extend the tablet autonomy i would just as well carry the original one around.
gullyfoyle same sideways reading of the OP i would not pay 80$ for a marketed battery/charger.
i hope there are still people out there who can give an educated answer :/
this guy for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqxhEkDGkbg he says he learned it the hard way (bricked his phone?) because he put 4x(1.5V?) batteries to charge his iphone without the resistors (to get the voltage from 6V down to 5V?)
so there again, can there be issues with the discharge current rate or is it something about lithium batteries behaving differently from alkaline ones ?
i think i ll go ahead and try anyway. worst case scenario the battery will just sit there not putting out anything.
Why wouldn't you pay $80 for a backup battery charger. It was just an example. I'm sure you can find one cheaper after Black Friday, or even with a bit of Googlefu.
We aren't talking about normal chargers but portable charge devices.
http://www.scosche.com/consumer-tech/product/2073
For anyone in need of extra power, the goBAT II provides an innovative solution to the dreaded ‘low battery’ warning. The goBAT II is a powerful backup battery and dual port charger for your mobile devices. The internal 5000mAh ion battery will keep your devices going long after they normally would.
Advantages and Applications
A drained iPhone 4 can be charged 2.6 times with a fully charged goBAT II. An iPad can be charged up to 55% of full charge. This is the ideal battery for long commutes, airport travel and camping.
The goBAT II provides 2 USB charging ports that can be used at the same time. A 2.1 Amp port gives you the ability to charge mobile devices including tablets (iPad and Samsung Galaxy Tab). An additional 1.0 Amp port lets you charge your additional devices (iPhone, iPod, etc.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remember this is JUST AN EXAMPLE. The idea is to show these devices exist and are available for purchase.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/23/scosches-gobat-ii-portable-battery-pack-handles-two-usb-devices/
We'll just keep it real simple for you: the object you're looking at above is the Revive II charger, but slimmer, and with a rechargeable battery pack thrown in rather than a wall / cigarette adapter. Got it? Good. The goBAT II contains a 5000mAh rechargeable lithium ion battery, and it offers a pair of USB ports for charging. One's a 10-watt (2.1 Amp) port capable of handling high-maintenance devices like Apple's iPad, while the other is a more conventional 5-watt (1 Amp) socket. Scosche is also throwing in a USB adapter for the Galaxy Tab, theoretically letting those with divided households charge both an iOS and Android tablet at the same time. Brain melting, we know. It also works with the company's Revive charging app, which indicates how long a device will take to charge on any of Scosche's chargers and can also be configured to send an email notification once a device has been fully charged. She's all yours down at the source link for $89.99
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See, others deem it "BRAIN MELTING".
And the cost of that type of thrill is reasonable, for the job it does.
But I can understand how someone would encourage another person to experiment with the guts of electronics they don't fully understand. Screw it up and you can always buy a new one.
Then again, you could buy three or four Gobats and save all the fuss and bother.
mr.bryce said:
Hello,
thanks for dropping by
its not helping really this is bs
power cat you say "probably" regulates the current. yes that is what i wrote that is what i hoped someone would clear up for me. i dont see how buying another wall charger is going to help me extend the tablet autonomy i would just as well carry the original one around.
gullyfoyle same sideways reading of the OP i would not pay 80$ for a marketed battery/charger.
i hope there are still people out there who can give an educated answer :/
this guy for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqxhEkDGkbg he says he learned it the hard way (bricked his phone?) because he put 4x(1.5V?) batteries to charge his iphone without the resistors (to get the voltage from 6V down to 5V?)
so there again, can there be issues with the discharge current rate or is it something about lithium batteries behaving differently from alkaline ones ?
i think i ll go ahead and try anyway. worst case scenario the battery will just sit there not putting out anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will break your tablet.
The charger contains a complex integrated circuit. Sticking on a few resistors isn't gonna do ****.
Look at this for example, a simple wind generator has a complex charging circuit to regulare all the power:
http://www.instructables.com/id/How...nd-turbine/step8/Build-the-charge-controller/
Just google "how to make a charge controller" it's really not as simple as you think.
Quote from the site:
The general principal behind the controller is that it monitors the voltage of the battery(s) in your system and either sends power from the turbine into the batteries to recharge them, or dumps the power from the turbine into a secondary load if the batteries are fully charged (to prevent over-charging and destroying the batteries).
ok thanks ^^
now i understand that part
Short answer: buy a second power adapter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are saying the overcharge controller (and other safety features) are all in the wall charger and are not integrated in the tablet.
so if i really really wanted to try i could plug any battery between 12 and 24V to this little guy couldnt i ?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/220826123824#ht_3149wt_1163
As far as I know...as long as the voltage is correct (eg 12 volts) and the power adapter can produce the required amperage (1.5A) then the tablet will only take the current it can use.
So even if the power adapter is capable of producing 10A say, it doesn't mean it's forcing the 10A onto whatever is connected to it. If you use 1.5A (and if there was a way to connect multiple devices to it) you would still have 8.5A of current you could still take.
Oh the charge regulator would not be in the power adapter, that would be a very stupid design. It would be in the tablet it self to regulate how much charge it requires. I don't know of any power adapter that takes feedback from what it's charging to regulate the current.
It's the same with laptops, that's why you can buy universal laptop chargers when the one you have breaks, you just need to make sure it can supply enough amperage to power your device.
The power adapter is just a simple device that converts 110-240v 50/60hz voltage to 12v and upto whatever amperage it is designed for.
Power plugs in the house are designed at 110-240v to a maximum of 2400W (so ~20a for 110v and 10a for 240v) do you think whatever you plug into it uses up 2400W of electricity at once? No, it just takes what it is required (amperage), that's why you can plug a power strip with like 2-10 additional plugs without any problems unless if try to take more than 2400W in total.
Basic high school physics should of taught people this.
first sensible answer i get thank you daemos i m just not gonna take any chances considering the lithium technology and the fact they could use a "stupid design" for shorter gadget lifespan. if anyone has ever modded a car charger i d love to read about it.
mr.bryce said:
first sensible answer i get thank you daemos i m just not gonna take any chances considering the lithium technology and the fact they could use a "stupid design" for shorter gadget lifespan. if anyone has ever modded a car charger i d love to read about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lithium ion batteries must be charged at a very specific voltage. So all charging regulation mechanisms would need to be inside the tablet.
I'm pretty sure the ones inside the tablet are definately below 12V so anyone thinking that the AC adapter has any fancy mechanisms to detect feedback, and regulate charge and control the voltage given to the Li-ion cells is incorrect.
Is it safe to use one of THESE to charge or run the tablet?
They also have a 6800mAh ver.
WOW YOU MEN Complicate everything
SIMPLE EASY .. Look at the output voltage of the the power brick for the iconia.. the part that you plug into the wall..
got something that OUTPUTS 12V AT 1.5 AMPS and you are done.. the Li Batteries as in all LI BATTERIES HAVE THERE OWN charging regulators in them.
The reason for this is because if a Battery is drained to a low state it will GET HOT AND OVERHEAT.. NI-CD Batteries can take and handle this heat.. Li batteries become a mini bomb at these temps.. So the are self regulating.. This can be proven by getting a cordless drill hold the shaft from running.. the drill will heat up the battery the device will STOP FUNCTIONING.. Remove the battery and put it back in . it will work again..
Now with that said.. most Li devices say make sure you have 20% or more battery life before flashing and so on.. This is because the DEVICE WILL NOT RUN On the power port. the port only connects to the battery. and in some cases the display lighting.. My cell is this way. if i run the battery until its dead or using gps on it. it will drain the battery faster then it can charge . causing it to not work until you charge it for 5 minutes or so.. this would assume that using a external battery to charge it .. the external batteries themselves would need to be more then 12 volts and atleast double the amps.. then regulated to the 12v 1.5 amps . think of this like pooring water thru a funnel.. to maintain the 12v 1.5 amps. You can test my theory by taking the battery out of your cell phone and trying to run it just on the power adaptor only.. I KNOW MINE WILL NOT RUN.. however if it has older battery technology it will..
I think I found the way of improving the battery of tablet as in the title. The battery compartment has dimentions 126.5x67.5x5 mm.
The original battery pack is wired and of capacity ca 1800 mAh so it does not last long.
I found on eBay batteries that will fit in the battery compartment, 3 of them, and they need to be connected in parallel. That will give 5400 mAh capacity at 3.7 V. Each battery has wires and has the size of 56x36x5 mm.
Here is the link:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180850958176?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I ordered the batteries and will post further when i install and test this solution. My only concern is that the batteries connected in parallel need to have identical voltages at the moment of soldering them together (to avoid high currents between them due to different voltages which would generate heat and even could destroy them) so probably they need to be first time connected while fully discharged.
mengagumkan said:
I think I found the way of improving the battery of tablet as in the title. The battery compartment has dimentions 126.5x67.5x5 mm.
The original battery pack is wired and of capacity ca 1800 mAh so it does not last long.
I found on eBay batteries that will fit in the battery compartment, 3 of them, and they need to be connected in parallel. That will give 5400 mAh capacity at 3.7 V. Each battery has wires and has the size of 56x36x5 mm.
Here is the link:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180850958176?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I ordered the batteries and will post further when i install and test this solution. My only concern is that the batteries connected in parallel need to have identical voltages at the moment of soldering them together (to avoid high currents between them due to different voltages which would generate heat and even could destroy them) so probably they need to be first time connected while fully discharged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the question is?
@UP:
It isn't forum for questions only.
@OP:
The second concern might be charging and fuel gauge, try to find out what are those ICs in your tablet, get datasheets and check if they need to have batt characteristics programmed by CPU, you might need to change parameters passed to them.
I would be very careful modifying the batteries. Li-ions have control circuitry inside of them that talk to the device and they have a very specific way they must be charge.
Even when they're used normally they have a bad habit of blowing up.
xHausx said:
Li-ions have control circuitry inside of them that talk to the device and they have a very specific way they must be charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm, if we're talking about cellphone's batteries. No they don't (at least not in phone models I've been studying). All I've seen in this class of batteries so far is +, - and thermistor pad (and sometimes NFC Antenna), everything else is calculated by fuel gauge and charging ICs, basing on the batt parameters they get from CPU and calibration data.
The thermistor should be monitored by the device, but afaik all li-ion batteries must have control circuitry to make sure they are charged correctly. Batteries with multiple cells also need it to balance usage and charging.
Of course there's always the exception, but li-ions are by their nature unstable, so caution is still advised when doing anything with them. A quick search of YouTube shows a lot about what they're capable of.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=906144
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries/
Hi,
any way to accomplish this ? To be more clear, batteries will get a shorter life from the current work regime that I put them to, Unfortunately, the USB data cable of most phones also acts as a charger. I am using the phone for development, so this USB data cable is always attached to the phone and to the dev machine, thus forcing the battery to always charge, even at the slightest 1% discharge. It would be really good if I could take out the battery and still be able to run the phone.
Thank you!
kelogs said:
Hi,
any way to accomplish this ? To be more clear, batteries will get a shorter life from the current work regime that I put them to, Unfortunately, the USB data cable of most phones also acts as a charger. I am using the phone for development, so this USB data cable is always attached to the phone and to the dev machine, thus forcing the battery to always charge, even at the slightest 1% discharge. It would be really good if I could take out the battery and still be able to run the phone.
Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the phone, I know on the moto defy there was a cable mod that would bypass the battery
Sent from my GT-I9300T using xda app-developers app
adamo3957 said:
Depends on the phone, I know on the moto defy there was a cable mod that would bypass the battery
Sent from my GT-I9300T using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a Samsung Galaxy Note GT-N7000
i didn't know it is possible!
Some (most?) battery circuits are designed to deal with a dead or shorted battery.
The circuit is not arranged in a direct line between charger, battery, load.
Disconnecting a battery connector also disconnects the temperature-measuring thermistor.
With a NTC thermistor, it would think that the battery is ice cold.
A resistor of the correct value would fool it into believing it's a reasonable temperature.
I tried disconnecting the battery on my Nook and it wouldn't power up.
3,7V supply circuit as battery
You can supply the device with 3,7V (like the battery) from an external source. The only thing bad is that you have to attach wires to the gold plated battery slots on the device, or you can do it with small crocodile clips to avoid soldering. (better)
If you are ok with this, here is how you do it.
Take off your battery and measure voltage DC with a multimeter or voltmeter between battery leads. Now you know what your battery gives to the device. Example for 3 leads battery: you have 2 positive leads with the ground as reference (one slightly lower than the other) and the actual ground. So you have to supply with 3,7V the same leads that the battery was supplying. You can check while inserting the battery back to the device.
Hot to have the 3,7 Volts supply:
You will need 2 resistors, some capacitors, LM317 regulator, heat sink for that and a higher voltage DC power supply 6-12V.
Get and android device and go to play store. Install "Electrodroid" application. This will help you on sizing the LM317 regulator. Have in mind that this is programmable regulator, so you need 2 resistors to set the output voltage as 3,7V. LM317 is a linear voltage regulator, so it will act as uninterrupted 3,7 Volt battery. Be carefull to get a big heat sink, depending on the current you will be supplying and input voltage, also you can read this device datasheet online.
You can build this circuit on a breadboard if you are familiar with electronics or you can solder point to point the parts, or make a pcb if you can.
You're lucky it's N7000
full schemas are there - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1813315
PMIC's pin "_DETBAT" is connected to "VF" of battery connector. Perhaps if you pull it high it'll bootup.
And btw - usually HW is fully capable of starting off USB power. The thing is that bootloader does check if battery is present and, if not, turns off the phone. Actually this is because phone, especially during bootup, can peak to much more than 500mA current, and battery is there to compensate "missing" power.
//edit:
However, in case you don't provide any power into battery pins, it might try to charge it and U607 - Switching Charger might not really like working without load. This can generate alot of noise around AFAIK so modding kernel somehow to disable charging would be good choice.
Rebellos said:
You're lucky it's N7000
full schemas are there - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1813315
PMIC's pin "_DETBAT" is connected to "VF" of battery connector. Perhaps if you pull it high it'll bootup.
And btw - usually HW is fully capable of starting off USB power. The thing is that bootloader does check if battery is present and, if not, turns off the phone. Actually this is because phone, especially during bootup, can peak to much more than 500mA current, and battery is there to compensate "missing" power.
//edit:
However, in case you don't provide any power into battery pins, it might try to charge it and U607 - Switching Charger might not really like working without load. This can generate alot of noise around AFAIK so modding kernel somehow to disable charging would be good choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The system is powered off of Vbat - As a result, the charger MUST be active. Also, the N7000 is EASILY capable of drawing more than the maximum input current limit from Vbus, mandating extraction of power from the battery in some operating regimes.
The only way to achieve what the OP wants (total battery removal) would be with a dummy battery that had an external 4.0 volt power supply. Bad Things could happen if the device is connected to USB in this state.
However, to satisfy the OP's stated reasons for removing the battery (lots of time on USB), the likely best solution would be to disable the charging circuitry in the kernel at high states of charge. For example, one could set it up so that the charger would only be enabled when Vbat was below 4.0 volts, or when the fuel gauge SoC is below X per cent. See Ezekeel's "BLX" implementation for the Galaxy Nexus as one example of this.
thanks!
rebellos said:
you're lucky it's n7000
full schemas are there - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1813315
pmic's pin "_detbat" is connected to "vf" of battery connector. Perhaps if you pull it high it'll bootup.
And btw - usually hw is fully capable of starting off usb power. The thing is that bootloader does check if battery is present and, if not, turns off the phone. Actually this is because phone, especially during bootup, can peak to much more than 500ma current, and battery is there to compensate "missing" power.
//edit:
However, in case you don't provide any power into battery pins, it might try to charge it and u607 - switching charger might not really like working without load. This can generate alot of noise around afaik so modding kernel somehow to disable charging would be good choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the link1
Thank you all for sharing knowledge and experiences. I have made the decision to just go for some cheap ebay replacement batteries due to some advice I got from a friend, which I am sharing below:
Do not fiddle with such a fine piece of hardware (i.e. smartphone) by attaching some exposed wirings to it. The gadget could easily slip from your hands and cause the loosely hanging wirings to short-circuit upon landing on the floor. Definitely not a good perspective.
a
kelogs said:
Thank you all for sharing knowledge and experiences. I have made the decision to just go for some cheap ebay replacement batteries due to some advice I got from a friend, which I am sharing below:
Do not fiddle with such a fine piece of hardware (i.e. smartphone) by attaching some exposed wirings to it. The gadget could easily slip from your hands and cause the loosely hanging wirings to short-circuit upon landing on the floor. Definitely not a good perspective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh give a f***ing break! It's a phone not an egg shell. And short-circuiting the wires would at worst damage the power supply not the phone.
Entropy512 said:
The system is powered off of Vbat - As a result, the charger MUST be active. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This just isn't true. Modern PMIC not only have the option to stop charging the battery, but to charge the phone only on AC and also do things like send power the the USB OTG. So it is a matter of the PMIC knowing what to do. What I wish was possible was a nice app that told the PMIC to stop charging at 80% and then go to trickle mode. This would save your battery life by a lot, instead it appears to charge to 100% then back off the voltage a little.
bypass battery on unibody phone and run directly from charger
Entropy512 said:
The system is powered off of Vbat - As a result, the charger MUST be active. Also, the N7000 is EASILY capable of drawing more than the maximum input current limit from Vbus, mandating extraction of power from the battery in some operating regimes.
The only way to achieve what the OP wants (total battery removal) would be with a dummy battery that had an external 4.0 volt power supply. Bad Things could happen if the device is connected to USB in this state.
However, to satisfy the OP's stated reasons for removing the battery (lots of time on USB), the likely best solution would be to disable the charging circuitry in the kernel at high states of charge. For example, one could set it up so that the charger would only be enabled when Vbat was below 4.0 volts, or when the fuel gauge SoC is below X per cent. See Ezekeel's "BLX" implementation for the Galaxy Nexus as one example of this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would just disable the charging until the SoC dropped to the level you set though, correct? I.e. the phone is still running from the battery..? If so you still end up with more or less the same issue (although with some potential benefits depending from cycling at lower SoC).
I have a HTC One X so removing the battery and adding some circuit trickory isn't an option. But bc of this damn unibody even more motivation to run the phone directly from the charger bc I can't feed it with replacement batteries. ( which he is right thats the best options for the OP)
Anyone know if this is even possible with software mods based on the design of the phone charging system? Or any sources for literature on this. I really wanna save this battery if its the only one I got!
I am currently experimenting with this. I suppose I can only get 3 volts from the 5V input of a usb charger. Going to need to hook up to a 12v power source I suppose. Built this power supply, linear variable voltage regulator. Going to still want that data transfer. I am using diodes to make sure no power goes the wrong way into my electrolytic capacitors. I will try to post a thread if it works because I have not seen one yet.
Hello, sorry to post in an old thread, but this is the closest problem to mine that I could find.
So I'm using a 4G mi-fi modem on my PC. It's plugged in constantly 24/7 through USB cable to my PC. You can imagine the effect on the battery. I threw out 2 batteries coz they've gone bad. Sadly the modem won't turn on if it's not detecting a battery.
So I'm considering the capacitor route, just to fool the modem into thinking that a battery is installed, the real power comes from USB data cable anyway. It's a Huawei E5577, the battery got 4 terminals on it. The outermost terminals are (+) and (-), while I'm guessing the middle two are used to read the battery status (voltage, etc). So what's the simplest schematic to achieve this, using simplest capacitor circuit to fool the modem into thinking the battery is installed and working well.
Thank you
Hello friends,
So I just got my Note 4 and i'm wondering how long should I keep it in charge for the first time? And should I drain it on first use or charge it when it's at let's say 20%??
Thanks in advance.
14 hrs, dont drain, battery should be between 20-80% before charging in normal use, fast charge off.
@zurkx
Thanks for the reply.
Are you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
XeroHertZ said:
@zurkxAre you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Chefprol.I have done some research on charging the battery and have come to a conclusion that once it's charged I can use it straight away but and then drain it to 18 to 20% then charge it fully.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks ! i tought it would be a old myth to first drain the batery and then fully load it but as far as i know its only with old phones and mp3 players and such.
hope i will get my note 4 today ! waiting for it since monday
Fast Charge is not really a useful feature for me, it just hurts the battery more in the long run
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
There's no need to condition the battery, its a lithium battery.
If you're having battery drain issues I would suggest you clear your data cache.
ddaharu said:
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Who's post are you referring to?
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
arjun90 said:
Who's post are you referring to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's mine. That guy already bumped into me a while ago, now it's time for his revenge.
I'll care for that, now...
---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So here we go; you asked for it...
My critism about the Note 4 refers to it's GPS receiver, which is "deaf" compared to the competition and shows frequent signal drops.
More here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4/general/gps-close-to-unusable-t2948602
dont listen to fools.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed - have a look:
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already advised to realize this is 2014 battery technology, not the ancient batteries of the past.
Short: There is no "trickle charge" with Lithium-Ion-batteries.
See this: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries - quote: "The difference lies in a higher voltage per cell, tighter voltage tolerance and the absence of trickle or float charge at full charge."
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quote: "The charge rate of a typical consumer Li-ion battery is between 0.5 and 1C in Stage 1, and the charge time is about three hours. Manufacturers recommend charging the 18650 cell at 0.8C or less."
"C" is the capacity, 3220 mAh with our Note 4's battery. So we're save to charge with a current (milliamperes, "mA") of up to 3220 mA - if we follow the manufacturer's advice for the older type of batteries of that kind (18650 is an old warrior in the field), there's still 2576 A left.
So what does our fast charge supply deliver ? Look at it's ratings: 5 V, 2 A (2000 mA).
So even fast charge is far below the limits - our real limit is 3220 mA, but fast charging just uses 2000 mA.
Sound and safe.
Wonder about me highlighting "higher voltage" in zurkx's highly elaborate statement in red ? - Answer is above: The voltage does NOT change, it is NOT higher. Of course not !
The worst enemies of LiIon batteries are heat and age.
Heat is generated by a) placing the device at a hot spot (like behind the car's windscreen or in bright sunlight), b) by using demanding features like 4K video recording or highend games, c) by charging .
a) Your call. Just don't let your Note get hot. Overheating destroys your battery in no time. We're lucky we've got an exchangeable battery - so nothing to really worry about.
b) Your call. See a).
c) Charging produces some heat, especially on the "last mile", when the battery is "almost full", because the battery is a bit reluctant of getting charged up to the brim. So more heat is generated in that last phase. It's not much, won't reach the safety limits. It just can't, because the build-in charging circuits limits the current if heat gets up.
By the way: That integrated charging circuits are propped with safety measures, checking charge, condition, temperature and the like.
So even if you hook up a charger capable of providing 20 whopping amperes, the circuits just won't let that happen.
There is no way of providing the battery too much current; it's automatically limited.
best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again; welcome to the 21st century. We don't need any slow charge. It's the opposite.
Charging right slow has the danger that apps on the phone draw more power than the charge provides. That may drain your battery instead of filling it.
Plus: If you hook up the charger for long, it will be recharged (charge gets "topped off") frequenly. And every new charging attempt has a slightly negative impact on the battery's life; it's like wearing it a bit down. - Charge often, reduce your battery's life. That damage is tiny, by the way. But it is there, so hooking up your charger for many hours slowly kills your battery.
Now for the aging:
if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LiIon battery ARE AGING, up from the time of manufacture.
You all know that: You charge a device like you're told by the instructions - but after 1 to 3 years you notice a severe drop of usage time, a drop of capacity.
That's aging.
NOTHING you can do against that but buying a new battery.
So your battery will lose it's capacity over time; if you use it or not. You all know that, you all experienced that.
With the Note 4, we can happily buy a new battery if the old one runs out; it's that simple. But as a normal Li Ion battery reaches it's shelf live after 2 or 3 years anyway, there's NO (!) need of burdening it and you with slow charge. The results are exactly the same, with the difference that you save precious time with fast charging.
And now allow me quoting again:
dont listen to fools.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a nice day, all of you except one.
youre completely wrong.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
http://www.androidauthority.com/quick-charge-explained-563838/
Quick Charge 2.0
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Snapdragon 200, 400, 410, 615, 800, 801, 805
The rest is just BS as usual. You have no idea what youre talking about. Dumping 9V (Samsung Note 4 AFC) into a 5V battery makes it charge hotter and faster and degrades it significantly. After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
just bad advice as usual.
zurkx said:
youre completely wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, indeed. I was completely wrong by believing you'd understand some simple things.
In fact, I am not sure if I should take your statements for serious or just for a joke.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you REALLY believe that changes of the output voltage of the POWER SUPPLY lead to the BATTERY charged with more volts ?
You can't be serious. That's technically impossible.
Let's put it easy:
If you insert your power supply into a 110 V receptacle in the USA, you get 5 V output.
So according to your "logic", using the same power supply in Europe (230 V) increases the voltage to 10 V ?
No. Just NO.
That higher POWER SUPPLY voltage is used for fulfilling the rule W = V * A (Watt = Volt * Ampere); just to be able to squeeze more power through the power supply's cable.
In the Note 4 and in the charging circuit, that voltage OF COURSE will be regulated down to the regular charging voltage - just with the benefit to carry more amperes.
So the CHARGING VOLTAGE stays the same; it does NOT follow the voltage supplied by the POWER SUPPLY. It never does.
So fast charging does NOT (read that: NOT !) increase the charging voltage. It cannot.
Got that now ? - Or do I need to put it ever more simple ?
It does not help using swearing words like "fool" or "bull****".
But it could help just saying: "Oh, sorry, I was wrong. - My apologies."
Make yourself at home with the basics of lithium ion and charging technology. THEN speak up.
Ah, overlooked something:
After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Hope that chunk fell somewhere you were able to pick it up again.
2) How to you KNOW that ? I expect a detailled description about how you did the magic of finding out that your battery doesn't charge to 100 %.
3) If you KNEW that fast charging would kill your battery, wise man - why did you allegedly use the feature ? - Sorry, man... Your statements are not very trustworthy. I guess you never used that feature, just say so to strengthen your shaky point of view. Please don't mess with a perception psychologist.
4) If your battery really suffered, that might be due to your highly acclaimed and absolutely pointless 14-hours-charging-marathons, causing a permanent charge on/charge off cycle, weakening your battery.
So please just stop bashing a real useful feature of the Note 4. If you just love waiting ages for batteries to charge - your preference. But please stop spreading false facts about things you very obviously are not at home with.
And a last thing which might stop that aimless harassing fire of yours: I am HAM, a licenced amateur radio operator, holding the highest German licence class. These are the people who know a bit about volts and amperes.
how hard is it for you to understand that quickcharge 2.0 outputs higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE to charge the battery ? The charger charges the BATTERY AT 9V 1.67A up to 50% and then switches over to the regular 5V 2A charge rate. INPUT VOLTAGE (110V or 230V) has nothing to do with OUTPUT VOLTAGE. It charges the battery at 9V REGARDLESS of INPUT VOLTAGE.
edit:
also it has nothing to do with the cable. you must be crazy if you think a cable issue exists whether you transfer 15W or 10W across it. the cable is rated for well beyond that. the reason for the higher voltage is that modern lithium ions can accept high voltage charge rates with limited damage at low amperage. the reason they cut it off at 50% is the battery would be severely damaged if you tried to charge it to 100% and overshot. so yes quickcharge 2.0 really does charge your battery at a higher voltage than it was designed to be charged at. and no they dont have a magical transformer on your phone to go from 9V to 5V. otherwise they would be using it all the time and fast charge 9V to 100%. the wall plug is the only thing which has a transformer and the phone uses what it gets from there. they arent going to build half of another wall plug (9V DC-DC) and stuff it into the phone. it would generate heat and add bulk. Instead the PMIC "spikes" the battery with higher voltage and keeps it roughly constant (load modulation) by communicating with the quickcharge 2.0 AFC on the other end.
Hopeless.
I just love these battery threads, there's always some muppet who says the battery needs conditioning and must first be charged for a suitably ridiculous length of time. When it's charged it's charged, lithium batteries have no memory effect so the idea of conditioning them is moronic
Sent from my SM-N910F using XDA Free mobile app
yes they have no memory effect. why ? because you say so.
other people believe otherwise because they actually test things out for themselves :
http://www.psi.ch/media/memory-effect-now-also-found-in-lithium-ion-batteries
http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/03/li-ion-batteries-memory-effect
http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n6/full/nmat3623.html
no need to keep it for 14 hours, as they said in the catalog you only need to charge it till it's full, then unplug the charger.
Hello again !
After all cooled down a bit, here's some more information about that dreaded HIGH VOLTAGE fast charging uses which seemingly makes some of you wet your pants.
First, there's an experiment you can do yourself. You don't need to do - but it's quite impressive and gives you some proof of the things I say.
Get two 9 V batteries; the small rectangle ones we all know. Connect the positive contact of the first battery with the negative contact of the second. Thus you get an 18 volts DC power source.
Get a thin, isolated wire, short-circuit the open contacts with the wire. Wait.
Nothing special will happen, maybe the wire will get a little warm - and your batteries will eventually die.
(If you use a VERY thing wires, it might heat up.)
Now take a length of the same wire, do the same using your car's battery (12 – 13.8 V DC).
WARNING !
1) Take the battery out of the car, set it on solid ground with nothing combustible near !!! Do NOT try this with the battery still in the car !!!
2) Use pliers to connect the wire with the battery contacts !!!
3) Do that OUTDOORS !!!
Short-circuit the battery contacts using the pliers with the wire.
You don't need to wait. The cable will turn into a smoking, burning, white-hot thing in an instant.
Huh ? - We've got 18 V with just nothing happening, we've got just 12 V wreaking instant havoc and destruction !?
Amperage is the key !
Voltage alone does not cause the destruction, it's the amperage.
9 V batteries cannot provide sufficient amperes for killing the wire; 12 V car batteries do.
Short: High amperage kills wires, high voltage doesn't.
So back to our topic...
To fast charge our Note 4's battery, we need power, watts. But the tiny wires in the Note 4 can't withstand a high wattage; they would heat up like the wire connected to the 12 V car battery.
So Samsung uses a little trick, according to Ohm's law: W = V * A, W is watts, V is volts, A is amperes.
So we can achieve a high wattage by EITHER using a higher voltage OR a higher amperage.
Higher amperage does not work because it will kill the tiny wires in the Note.
So Samsung raised the voltage for carrying more watts from the power supply via the internal Note 4's cabling to the charging circuit.
That higher voltage gets transformed down to the normal charging voltage at the charging circuit.
Your battery is charged with the usual voltage, but with the benefits of a higher amperage.
That's all the magic: That higher voltage is used to carry more wattage to the charging circuit, but not beyond. Nothing else.
And that's why it does not harm your battery; charging voltage will not change - your battery just gets charged faster, always monitored by the charging circuit which will lower the charge accordingly if needed, so your battery will always be safe. That's why the "last mile" (charge from about 92 % to 100 %) takes more time to charge - because the charging circuit automatically lowers the charge to protect your battery.
So don't be afraid of that higher voltage; it never reaches your battery, it is just a means for transferring higher wattage via tiny wires.
Note: You ever wondered why Europeans use 230 V instead of 110 V ? - That's the reason. Being able to carry more watts over regular power lines without risking the wires heating up too much. It's not a means of destruction, it's the opposite.