Database Users

usb thumb drive instead of PC?

I tried searching to see if this has already been discussed, but like all vBulletin forums, the search function rejected USB and Pen (as in pen drive) and a few other essential but three-letter words. So I found zero.
I have a 4 GB USB U3 thumb drive that I always carry with me--until I lose it, that is. I would like to load it up activesync (or not--whatever works) and a whole bunch of files I want to install on my HTC Touch Pro (AT&T Fuze). I have a short cable with a male mini USB connector at one end and a female regular-sized USB connector on the other (so I can slip the male USB thumb drive connector into the cable and thence connect it to my TouchPro).
I'm not sure whether this will work, but it seems like it should. This way, I can carry with me all of my files-to-be-installed and work on customizing my fuze anytime, anywhere. I don't want to store the installation files on my micro SD card because that wee thing holds soooo very little. (i have a 32 GB F card and a 32 GB SD card in my iP 211.)
For starters, I can't even figure out how to install Windows Mobile Device Center on the thumb drive--the process keeps wanting to mess with the AS/Winmobile Device Center already istalled (and used for another WM device).
Maybe there's a way to do with without AS or the Device Center. That's fine with me. All I care about is having access to the many, many apps I have waiting on the flash drive.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Sandra

Im no expert, but I dont think many devices have the capability for being hosts, meaning they cant have external memory devices attach except through the supplied card slot.
There are a couple out there which can handle it, but they normally come with a usb port built in. Otherwise I doubt its possible. I dont think its one of those things which can be programmed. Of course, I could be entirely wrong about it.
Edit: Ok, im completely wrong about it. I just found a web page through google saying that many devices with wm on dating back to Pocket PC 2002 do in fact have the ability to do it.
My bad. lol
http://www.mypdacafe.com/articles.php?id=219

See this threads for discussion on Touch Pro's USB host possibilities:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=411905
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=411905&highlight=usb+host

sfrrr said:
I don't want to store the installation files on my micro SD card because that wee thing holds soooo very little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What size do you have? They are currently available up to 16 gig, and 32 is coming. I keep all my cabs on my Sandisk 16. As for USB host, see the post above with the link to the thread. The chipset does not appear to support it. BTW, if you do a search on "USB host", you will find the thread.

I'm about to follow those links you guys recommended, but I wanted to say a quick thanks to you all. I didn't know anything about USB hosting, etc, and it's a whole lot easier to think anything is possible if you don't know anything than if you are well-educated. (OTOH, I suppose that that knowing might also inhibit experimenting which means you don't pursue new ideas. Hence the box we have to think outside of.)
Thanks again,
Sandra

I'd recommend a Trio adapter: Trio is not a brand name, just a mechanical name they have given this adapter. I had one made by A-Data and its awesome.
The adapter itself is an SD card that accepts a MicroSD on the side. However, the neat part is the fact that you can remove a piece and voila! you have a USB stick.
http://memoryworld.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=14&products_id=386 is the first hit from google. I bought mine from Newegg way back in the day. Sadly it was ran over when my phone was. The MicroSD card was good, but the adapter died. I am saving up to get the new SDHC version and a 16GB MicroSD card.
BE ADVISED: there are similar products out there called DUAL adapters: the memory is non removable in those. What that means is that there is no MicroSD card that comes out.
Enjoy!

Transfering SDHC Content to Touch HD

Guys,
I'm soon going on a trip to the Lake District (UK National Park) and will be doing a lot of climbing/hiking/walking.
Whilst I am at the summits of certain 'Fells' I will be taking photo's with my Digital Camera.
At that point I want to transfer Photo's from the Camera to the Phone and send them directly from the Phone.
Problems I need to overcome:-
The Camera uses SDHC.
The Phone uses MicroSD.
Apart from the Phone there is no power source.
What do you think is the best way to transfer the Photo's to the Phone so that I can then send them over 3G?
Thanks in advance.

Why not use a Micro sd in a Micro SD to SD adaptor, that way you are storing the camera images direct to a micro SD card and can then just put that in your phone to send the images

alanwesty said:
Why not use a Micro sd in a Micro SD to SD adaptor, that way you are storing the camera images direct to a micro SD card and can then just put that in your phone to send the images
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The camera will not take an adapter.
Don't forget I won't have the option of using a computer.

Why will the camera not take an adaptor I have used these adaptors ina PC and they work just the same as if you had put an ordinary SD card in.

alanwesty said:
Why will the camera not take an adaptor I have used these adaptors ina PC and they work just the same as if you had put an ordinary SD card in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you show me which adapter will connect directly to a camera WITHOUT the need for a PC.
Surely you need the PC to transfer the data across?

You can get SD adaptors that are just the same size as an ordinary SD card with a slot in the end to fit a Micro Sd card. This means that they fit anywhere a SD card fits and appear like a SD card to the device they are fitted to. A search on google for "sd adaptor" will find one.

alanwesty said:
You can get SD adaptors that are just the same size as an ordinary SD card with a slot in the end to fit a Micro Sd card. This means that they fit anywhere a SD card fits and appear like a SD card to the device they are fitted to. A search on google for "sd adaptor" will find one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but that would mean taking the photo's DIRECTLY onto the MicroSD Card.
I use high speed burst mode with my camera and that requires a fast SDHC Class 6 16GB Card.
You can not get a 16GB Class 6 MicroSD.
Although some will be released very soon the difference in price is quite high.
I'm trying to overcome having to chop and change cards between camera & Phone.
I am seeking a lead or something on this vein for transferring the data across.

Surely you're going to have to make some kind of sacrafice at some stage, either:
- Shoot on Class 2 MicroSD (via SD Adapter)
- Take laptop/netbook along
- Only other viable option is some kind of device that replicates SD to MicroSD without a PC - I don't think it exists.
You sound like your probably using a DSLR, have you thought about the time it will take to tranfer each photo over 3G, even assuming you can get 3G reception in the Lake District browsing the net on mine can be frustrating enough never mind uploading 4Mb photo's.
Oh and the power issue is pretty big! Have you got a windup/solar charger or a shed load of spare batteries?
Good luck though - it's a worthy cause

foaf said:
Surely you're going to have to make some kind of sacrafice at some stage, either:
- Shoot on Class 2 MicroSD (via SD Adapter)
- Take laptop/netbook along
- Only other viable option is some kind of device that replicates SD to MicroSD without a PC - I don't think it exists.
You sound like your probably using a DSLR, have you thought about the time it will take to tranfer each photo over 3G, even assuming you can get 3G reception in the Lake District browsing the net on mine can be frustrating enough never mind uploading 4Mb photo's.
Oh and the power issue is pretty big! Have you got a windup/solar charger or a shed load of spare batteries?
Good luck though - it's a worthy cause
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, I'm shooting with a couple of cameras (Big Nikon D2Xs & a small semi-pro Panasonic LX3).
The Nikon though uses CFII for storage and I aim to use this camera with it's heavy zoom lens at the foot of the fells.
The LX3 will be going up with me to the top this time as I've done the Nikon before (and what a weight it was).
The last time I had all my gear... Laptop, Mobile 3G, Solar Charger, etc. etc.
This time however I'm trying something different and want to go as light as possible.
I've got the new Proporta portable charger and this will give my Phone plenty of charge.
The LX3 has two spare batteries so that's not going to be an issue.
I did think about using a mobile hard drive like the Archos AV700 (which I have).
It requires no power source using cable alone and has USB Host.
However, it would mean more weight and cables etc.
I just wondered if there were another simple way I could achieve my aim.
I intend to transfer around 3 to 6 pics and appreciate what you say on the speed issue (agree fully) but I want to complete the task which will help in the review I end up writing.

Hi Beards,
I tried but don't have all the right cables to prove it.
I thought the USB on the HD would also behave as a master for storage - so I thought I could connect a USB to a SD converter and that would be the solution. BUT, I don't have a USB female-female connector. I do have a micro USB to USB cable and a USB SD convertor. My aim was to plug it all in and try - Sorry.
Maybe this will work for you with the SD card appearing (hopefully) as storagecard2 but I need the extra cable to prove it.
Only other issue I can think of is the pictures will be big so no MMS transfer will be possible. Only email attachments and then I think there might also be a limit.
Have a great trip !

Cheesy Dave said:
Hi Beards,
I tried but don't have all the right cables to prove it.
I thought the USB on the HD would also behave as a master for storage - so I thought I could connect a USB to a SD converter and that would be the solution. BUT, I don't have a USB female-female connector. I do have a micro USB to USB cable and a USB SD convertor. My aim was to plug it all in and try - Sorry.
Maybe this will work for you with the SD card appearing (hopefully) as storagecard2 but I need the extra cable to prove it.
Only other issue I can think of is the pictures will be big so no MMS transfer will be possible. Only email attachments and then I think there might also be a limit.
Have a great trip !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Dave,
Nice speaking with you again.
Thanks for the heads up, this sounds promising.
I've got a couple of weeks to try and sort it out so if you come across anything suitable do please let me know.
Been far too busy in theatre lately. This trip will make a perfect break.

Why not just use the camera's 50mb internal memory to copy from your cheap high speed SDHC card to the micro SD card in SD adaptor combination already suggested? Since you're only talking abut 3 or 4 photos it shouldn't be a great hardship, and you get to shoot the way you like.

shuflie said:
Why not just use the camera's 50mb internal memory to copy from your cheap high speed SDHC card to the micro SD card in SD adaptor combination already suggested? Since you're only talking abut 3 or 4 photos it shouldn't be a great hardship, and you get to shoot the way you like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not taking 3 to 4 shots shuflie.... I'll be 'transferring' 3 to 4 shots to the Phone.
I will be taking around three hundred odd shots in total. I've then got to pick which will then be transferred to the phone.
It's an interesting concept though....
The MicroSD to SD Adapter keeps cropping up in topic here. So on basis this needs to be investigated further.
Edit:
I have just checked the Manual on the LX3 and it would appear this procedure can be done.
According to the Manual I can copy data from an SDHC card to Internal Memory and vice-versa.
So.... all I would need to do is:-
1. Pick from which shots require transferring.
2. Transfer them into Internal Memory.
3. Take out the SDHC Card with all the photos on.
4. Insert the SD Adapter with MicroSD card.
5. Transfer the selected Internal Memory shots on to the MicroSD card.
6. Take out the Adapter and MicroSD card from the camera and remove the MicroSD from the SD Adapter.
7. Insert the MicroSD card into the Phone and temporarily place in internal memory.
8. Take out the MicroSD card and replace with the correct storage MicroSD card.
9. On the Phone, transfer the shots from Internal Memory to the Storage card.
10. Send the shots over 3G.
Phew........ but at least it should work.

DSLR image sending via Touch HD
Hi Beards
I am a news photographer and do exactly this all the time.
There are sacrifices that pretty much have to be made.. you can't do everything you want without power and a laptop / or loads of extra kit.
The sacrifice is basically you cant shoot on class 6 cards you are stuck with the speed of the microSD. However.. we shoot riots, news, entertainment, etc in RAW mode on a Canon DSLR and unless we hammer it and motordrive loads of shots we dont have any problem with the slow microSD cards from SanDisk. I'm not sure what you plan to burst shoot but i would suspect if it serves us ok doing breaking news it should serve you ok up in the countryside. (unless you are doing motorsports or something )
Our workflow is this..
We shoot RAW images on the Canon EOS1D mk II on a SanDiskc 8bg microSD card in a SanDisk SD card adaptor.
We put the microSD card into the touch HD and use an application called Phojo http://www.idruna.com to extract the jpeg image from the raw file and email or FTP the image from our phone. Phojo has a lot of pro features that you may or may not need.. although it is commercial software so may not be something you want to invest in.
Of course shooting JPEG should mean you can shoot even quicker as the files are less than half the size of the raw images and you dont need Phojo to do the extracting of files. You can of course use the touchHD's built in email software then to send them by email if you wish. We recomment Phojo however because it is specifically designed for this application.
There are obviously other solutions.. you can get battery powered tiny USB transfer devices (belkin used to make one) that will transfer the content of one usb device (card reader / card) to another. However we havent had much success with these and they are fiddly.
Your needs match very much what press photographers do every day. All the ones i know do it by using the microSD adaptor / Phojo method (altho most dont shoot RAW they shoot JPEG) The ones who dont use the microSD method are either using a wifi transmitter made by canon or nikon on their camera and Phojo or they are using a PDA/Phone that supports USB host or SD cards.
Hopefully this helps
kind regards
Edward
Equinox Features
http://www.newspics.com

Newspics, that's really interesting. Great to see how the pro's do it.
I feel like there sould be camera's with built in capabilities to upload pics by now. Or at least Bluetooth 3.0 between the phone and the camera. Live Mesh does a pretty good job for me for syncing pics to my PC, if only it could sync between Camera, Phone and PC.

If you will have no access to a power supply how are you going to keep your phone charged?

HD2 USB transfer speeds?

I've looked everywhere. No one seems to have posted them. What are they?
Right now I'm a bit confused. Since this is an awesome device you'd think it would be fast in every aspect. It is, except for USB file transfers.
I'm running on Windows 7 Ultimate. I backed up everything from my phone to the computer with a data transfer rate from the SD card, in the phone, of 4.5MB/s. I then formatted the card (read earlier that this would help with the HD2 lock-ups) and copied everything back onto the SD card in the same fashion, through the phone. The data transfer back is right around 2.5 MB/s.... ???
I've tested all the ports around the computer, each are about the same. Anyone have any idea on how to fix this?

First thing would be to tell what kind and class of microSD card you have...

That would really depend on your SD card "class".
The higher the class, the faster it is capable of performing reading and writing operations.
But it's better to avoid the 16GB cards... the larger capacity cards take much longer to read... regardless of classifications or brand.
Something like a 4GB - Class 6 card is excellent.

I've read that it's only a class 2 MicroSD. Do you guys know where I can get class 4, or even a class 6 MicroSD? Whichever I get however depends on the max speed of the HD2. For example, I don't want to buy a class 6 and find out that the HD2 can only handle speeds up to the class 4. There is a $30-$40 USD difference.
Thanks for the SD info, it definitely helps. But now we're brought back to my original question. What are the max transfer speeds through the phone onto/from the MicroSD card? Has anyone found out?

personally i wouldn't do large data backups through activesync/MDC with the card still in the phone.
its simple to remove the card and put it in the supplied adapter card for use with sd_readers.
i bought a usb1.1 reader from a 'pound' shop, copying large files takes alot less time (average 10-11mb/sec) with my more expensive usb2.0 reader its even faster (average 50-60mb/sec)
card class does make a difference, but then so does sending large amounts of data through a 'middle man' like activesync or device center.
budget SD reader FTW

That is a good point, and I agree is faster than through the phone. For me though I have a few accessories on the phone which make taking the SD card out quite a pain.
I have an invisishield on the screen, and a poly-something or other high density plastic cover to replace the cover that came with the phone,-- It grips around the HD2 tightly. The cover is wonderful, but it tends to interfere with the invisishield. So if I am continually taking the cover on and off to get the SD card out I will eventually bend up the edges of the invisishield and will need to get that replaced.
In my best attempts to keep the phone nice I'm going to have to stick with whatever input/output the HD2-to/from-SD can give me.

choosing disk drive mode rather than active sync is the easiest way to speed up file transfers.
re: the figures you gave in post 1, write is always slower than read.

Forgot to mention, it was in 'disk drive mode'.
Btw, I found that the HTC HD2 is USB 2.0 Hi-Speed capable out-of-box. (I'd post a link, but forums wont let me, being new), and Hi-Speed USB can transfer 480Mbits/s, or ~57MB/s (Wikipedia, Universal Serial Bus, Signaling).
The Class 6 MicroSD card can write 48Mbits/s, or 6MB/s (Wikipedia, Secure Digital, Speeds). Easily obtained for the HD2.
Assuming this is everything that needs to be dealt with, this should work out wonderfully. I'll be writing files 300% faster with a class 6, and reading a whole lot faster (thanks Samsamuel, forgot about that read/write differences). Question is though, is this all? Or do I need to install some hi-speed usb driver on the computer? Or are there other things I'm not seeing that need to be dealt with?

its also worth remembering when you are doing the maths that USB loses around 25/35% to networking overhead. (the data that makes up the packet that holds the data you are transferring)
So, 480 Mbit = 60MBytes total = around 35Mbytes actual data transferred per second. (Results vary depending on the system, the cable, all kinds of things, but 30-35 is average, a little more in a testbed situation.

So I guess I'll just have to suffer with 219% faster instead of 300%... Well, looks like I'm returning the HD2!

Sometimes, microSD is better than SD

I've seen many people complain that they wish the Iconia had a full-size SD slot and not a microSD one. Today, I realized that microSD can be a big advantage.
My wife is on a school trip this weekend, currently on a bus with 60 high-schoolers. She just called because she realized that she'd left behind some important instructions that she's supposed to read to the kids on the bus. I can e-mail them to her, but the problem is that the tablet (my Acer Iconia) doesn't have a WiFi connection on the bus and lacks 3G so she can't receive the e-mail there. The instructions would be too small to easily read from her phone. Fortunately, her phone is an Android one with a microSD card. So, I've e-mailed her the instructions - she can save them on the microSD card, swap the card into the tablet, copy the file to the tablet's memory, and then return the cards. This will put the document on the tablet, where she can easily read it.
This made me realize that a similar solution would be useful with photos. I can take the photos on my camera, copy them to the tablet and convert the RAW images to 800x600 JPGs. Next, I can put the JPGs on a microSD card in the tablet's card slot and then put that card into an Android phone to e-mail them as desired. True, having 3G on the tablet, or setting up tethering with the phone, would be better options, but neither are available to me at the present. So, this will be a great solution - when I replace my iPhone with an Android (I hope to have a Samsung Galaxy SII LTE/Skyrocket soon).

Thanks for that post. It just shows how far we have come with technology over the years and how tablets are becoming part of every day life.

Just be careful putting the SD card in and out of devices. I think the locking tab on most micro SD cards is much too small and will wear off. This will make the card not hold in.Safari as the Iconia its tough to get micro card locked in .for me anyway.I don't think micro slots should be mechanically spring loaded to small to work correctly.
You can do Bluetooth file sharing between tablet and iteration non android devices.just pare them. I think you have to send the file from the phone.

From my touch pro2 i send files to the A500 via bluetooth. Im sure you can do the same with a android phone. I wouldnt go swapping cards from device to device.

Why didn't she just connect her Android phone to the USB port of your iconia via the cable?

erica_renee said:
You can do Bluetooth file sharing between tablet and iteration non android devices.just pare them. I think you have to send the file from the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I'll have to give that a try when she brings the tablet back.

drkalo said:
Why didn't she just connect her Android phone to the USB port of your iconia via the cable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that would have been possible, if she'd had the cable available on the bus.

Looking for my sd slot on my nexus s
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

nfazz said:
From my touch pro2 i send files to the A500 via bluetooth. Im sure you can do the same with a android phone. I wouldnt go swapping cards from device to device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've found that bluetooth usually works pretty well for transferring small files. It seems to be too slow to transfer larger files quickly, however. With files over 20mb in size I try to use a cable, or even a thumb drive with the acer.
---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------
drkalo said:
Why didn't she just connect her Android phone to the USB port of your iconia via the cable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
also, my Acer doesn't seem to recognize my android phone when I connect them via usb cable. I'm using an LG Revolution. Maybe it works on other phones, but maybe the acer just won't recognize another android os?

erica_renee said:
Just be careful putting the SD card in and out of devices. I think the locking tab on most micro SD cards is much too small and will wear off..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do the MicroSD cards have locking tabs? The ones I have dont.... thought it was only on the full size.
But aside from that... the OP had the exact same thought as me when I got my tab. Although i really wanted a full size SD slot for the extra capacity and to swap with my camera, I ended up using a Mini/Full SD adapter to use the Minis in my camera.

I bought this from my local Kmart and use the USB adapter in my A500 to read MicroSD from my phone or another tablet. Beats the crap out of actually trying to fiddle the one out from my tablet, and it has the bonus of being able to plug into my PC and my car stereo's USB port if I want to listen to music from it.
http://www.amazon.com/Micro-SDHC-Ad...J7FA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1321670793&sr=8-2
Works really well and its a tiny little thing, I can leave it plugged into my tablets USB port all the time and it doesn't get in the way too much at all.

Cheasy123 said:
...
also, my Acer doesn't seem to recognize my android phone when I connect them via usb cable. I'm using an LG Revolution. Maybe it works on other phones, but maybe the acer just won't recognize another android os?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to turn on USB storage on the phone!

kpfx said:
Do the MicroSD cards have locking tabs? The ones I have dont.... thought it was only on the full size.
But aside from that... the OP had the exact same thought as me when I got my tab. Although i really wanted a full size SD slot for the capacity and to swap with my camera, I just used one of the SD adapters to use the Minis in devices that use full sezed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not write protect locking. Ian refering to the tiny bump on the side of the card that holds it into the slot.This is not used on many phones. But the Iconia SD card locked in by this tab.I have a SD card I used alot between two phones with music on it.this card will not stay in position on my tablet that lock (little bump on card) is worn off

drkalo said:
You need to turn on USB storage on the phone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even with USB storage turned on it won't recognize it! My computer can see both drives on my phone just fine but the tablet gets nothing :/

I intentionally bought a micro SD card + SD adapter for my digital camera so I can easily swap the card into my tablet to transfer photos over. Yes, a USB adapter would have done the job with a regular SD but this is one less thing to carry around. Now I can swap Micro SDs between my tablet, camera and phone. It feels good to be connected

SD card storage will be going away, get used to it

I was listening to Koush Dutta (developer of ClockworkMod, All Cast, etc.) on All About Android podcast and he talked about why external SD cards are bad and why they're going away. Some of the things he brought out are:
- There's no standard API to access the external SD card in Android. He says that each device does it a little differently and it's a nightmare for developers to work with external SD cards.
- The device is certified by Google before being sold. When an SD card is inserted the user is basically taking a certified device and introducing an uncontrolled storage media. People often buy cheap SD cards that aren't capable of performing up to the level of certification for that device.
- When users buy a slow SD card and it doesn't perform well they complain to the app developer and put a bunch of 1-star reviews on their app. The developer is frustrated because it's a situation outside of their control and they're getting slammed for it.
Basically, he said, both the device manufacturers, Google, and app developers dislike the external SD card. Koush predicted that external SD cards will eventually go away completely.

Well why don't we just start a SDCard certification for google and throw a G stamp on the packages to let us know they can be used on devices?
There are solutions to this problem.

SlimJ87D said:
Well why don't we just start a SDCard certification for google and throw a G stamp on the packages to let us know they can be used on devices?
There are solutions to this problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Koush compared the SD card to the DVD/CD drive. People hesitated to buy ultrabook PCs at first because they had optical drive. Many laptops no longer have a optical drive. He said it would just be a matter of time before external SD cards will also go away.

Of course a developer is going to go for the simplest and best solution for them. They aren't being charged $50-100 per move between 16<>32<>64GB the way we are. Nor do they get a monthly bill from their wireless carrier for data when stuff's stored in the cloud. If Google wasn't so hell bent on pushing people toward the(ir) cloud I'd imagine they'd be able to come up with a process and standard to accommodate removable storage. Then, if manufacturers and third party devs followed that standard they wouldn't be getting complaints from users. Those that didn't follow the standard would deserve the complaints they got. Technology is a tough and complex business. Somehow on the PC side Apple and MS have figured out how to manage third party peripherals so if Google had the will I'd assume they'd find the way. Taking something of value away from the consumer in the name of "it's better for them;" especially when the cost and loss of convenience is so great is frankly BS.
P.S. - Removable Android storage has been around since 2010 when the SGS1/i9000 was released. Why is it suddenly a problem? Especially one that can't be addressed by a company with Google's resources?

Barry,
You bring up good points. Here's how'd I'd answer this...
On a PC it's different. Removable storage is generally used for transfer of data. People don't put apps on an external SD card and run them from there. They use an internal disk drive for apps. Why? Because they have a lot of internal disk. Yes, external storage is used for storing movies.
On a phone or tablet people are trying to use an external SD card as an extension of the internal storage. It's not meant to be used as such. It's a transfer medium or video storage medium. And, that's exactly the direction it's going.
I don't think that cloud services are driving this decision. After all, cloud connections are considerably slower than an SD card. And, if one wants to connect external data for file transfers there will still be OTG connections. I think that this will force manufacturers to increase internal memory. Look for 128Gig and 256Gig internal memory in the future. Once that happens people will forget about external SD cards.

TabGuy said:
Koush compared the SD card to the DVD/CD drive. People hesitated to buy ultrabook PCs at first because they had optical drive. Many laptops no longer have a optical drive. He said it would just be a matter of time before external SD cards will also go away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CD and DVD drives are a pain to write to. Our laptops still have USB ports and everyone I know use Flash drives and External HDD to move files around.
Until
1. Internet is extremely fast almost anywhere you go.
2. Internet is unlimited again.
3. Internet is like how it is in Japan
I don't see how we can rely on just our phones and cloud storage. It is something we are moving forward to but not something that should happen anytime soon.
I love the SD card slot as well as many others. If it really is a problem, Google should start making certified SD specs and placing a seal of approval on them to ease for developers and consumers.
If they need to invent some kind of new type of security or partitioning on these SD cards, then feel free to do so also.
I don't think taking away the SD card is a solution for both parties, it's just a solution for a developer and headache for the consumer. If a tiny bit of research is done, it can be a win win for both parties and Android will have something Apple doesn't.
But what do I know? I'm just a ME, not a CE or CS.

We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.

Well if they wish them to go then start offering higher storage amounts. Tablets and phones shouldn't even have 16gb as an option. Make it 32 and higher... I wish this tablet had 128gb! At least Apple is offering a solution not just SD cards are bad... And the cloud isn't viable for most.
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TabGuy said:
We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.
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We as the consumer have the power to push for what we want.
HTC didn't support SD cards, but guess what, the SGS3 and 4 sold well and a lot of people said that the SD card was the selling factor to them, so now both Samsung and HTC both have SD cards.
If Samsung and HTC recognize it as a selling point, they will implement them one way or the other. I don't actually believe the "We can complain all we want but external card support is going away."
I don't really need to move apps to it anyways, I just need to keep my books, documents and music on there. That does not' affect the system.

TabGuy said:
We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.
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Not as long as Samsung, the largest purveyor of Android devices, keep including them. HTC caved and added an SD card to the M8 as did LG with their refresh of G Pro. Every Android tablet and the majority of Android phones (by market share) have it. The majority of those that don't are Google influenced (EG: Nexus and Motorola). They'll "go away" when Samsung stops supporting them. And ironically while one faction is trying to kill them another is making them bigger (128GB) and faster.

And it looks like the LG G3 will include an SD option for those outside Korea this time around so the trend continues.
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BarryH_GEG said:
Not as long as Samsung, the largest purveyor of Android devices, keep including them. HTC caved and added an SD card to the M8 as did LG with their refresh of G Pro. Every Android tablet and the majority of Android phones (by market share) have it. The majority of those that don't are Google influenced (EG: Nexus and Motorola). They'll "go away" when Samsung stops supporting them. And ironically while one faction is trying to kill them another is making them bigger (128GB) and faster.
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Berry, you and I are on the exact same page.
I understand what the OP is trying to say though, but this is something we have to see play out in the long run. There is no definite answer, do you agree?

SlimJ87D said:
Berry, you and I are on the exact same page.
I understand what the OP is trying to say though, but this is something we have to see play out in the long run. There is no definite answer, do you agree?
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Here's who the death of external storage would benefit:
Developers - their lives become simpler
Wireless carriers - they'll sell more data
Device Manufacturers - they'll sell more $50/100 storage step-ups
NAND Manufacturers (of which Samsung's one) - they'll sell bigger more profitable NAND modules
Google - they'll have more data to monetize as it passes to/from the cloud and can analyze and map what's in a user's Google cloud to do even more profiling to generate even more ad revenue
Here's who loses:
Us
SD Memory Card Manufacturers
If Samsung wanted to sell more memory step-ups they could have followed Google's lead with Nexus/Motorola and joined HTC and others that didn't provide external storage. For whatever reason they chose to stick with the(ir) status quo and more of their competitors seem to be adding external storage support than going the other way. The new Tab4 starts at 8GB of storage to keep the price down. With the OS you could probably store five pictures and a 30 minute TV show before storage was maxed out. Skimpy storage with expansion options actually helps lower the average selling price. So unless Samsung has a change of heart about external storage I don't see anything changing in the near future. Even If all other manufacturers abandoned it with Samsung's market share the majority of devices sold would still include it. So, at least to me, it appears the future of external storage depends more on Samsung than Google or a bunch of lazy developers.

The restrictions on the SD card have been in Android for a while. Samsung had made the one line change to get around the restrictions. However, in KitKat, probably with pressure from Google, they've removed that one line change that permits all apps to read/write to anywhere on the SD card. While 90% of consumers won't notice -- they only use external SD cards for movies and music -- this is a step in the direction of eliminating external SD cards by Samsung. Or, at least limiting them to what 90% of consumers use it for. Eventually, I believe, they'll eliminate them just as most others have.

TabGuy said:
The restrictions on the SD card have been in Android for a while. Samsung had made the one line change to get around the restrictions. However, in KitKat, probably with pressure from Google, they've removed that one line change that permits all apps to read/write to anywhere on the SD card. While 90% of consumers won't notice -- they only use external SD cards for movies and music -- this is a step in the direction of eliminating external SD cards by Samsung. Or, at least limiting them to what 90% of consumers use it for. Eventually, I believe, they'll eliminate them just as most others have.
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Nope. It was Google who made the one line change in Android specifically starting with API 19 in 4.4. From Google...
External Storage Technical Information
Android supports devices with external storage, which is defined to be a case-insensitive filesystem with immutable POSIX permission classes and modes. External storage can be provided by physical media (such as an SD card), or by exposing a portion of internal storage through an emulation layer. Devices may contain multiple instances of external storage.
Access to external storage is protected by various Android permissions. Starting in Android 1.0, write access is protected with the WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE permission. Starting in Android 4.1, read access is protected with the READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE permission.
Starting in Android 4.4, the owner, group and modes of files on external storage devices are now synthesized based on directory structure. This enables apps to manage their package-specific directories on external storage without requiring they hold the broad WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE permission. For example, the app with package name com.example.foo can now freely access Android/data/com.example.foo/ on external storage devices with no permissions. These synthesized permissions are accomplished by wrapping raw storage devices in a FUSE daemon.
Since external storage offers minimal protection for stored data, system code should not store sensitive data on external storage. Specifically, configuration and log files should only be stored on internal storage where they can be effectively protected.
http://source.android.com/devices/tech/storage/index.html​
Here's some other things to ponder...
If external storage was killed tomorrow it'll be years before Android and developers can stop supporting it. What's supposed to happen to existing device owners with low amounts of internal storage and tons stored on their external SD cards? FYI, there were 900M Android devices in service in 2013.
Now that we're all being marketed in to the "must have" status of 4K video, where's it going to be stored? Uploading, downloading, and streaming 1GB+ 4K videos via a cloud will certainly make the wireless companies and DropBox happy.
The bottom line is that no matter where any of us stand if there's a progression away from external storage it will take years.

I'm not sure of the reasoning behind this move to remove external storage - yet I doubt it is security. They are still utilizing EXFat or Fat32 for the file system on these cards it would be simple enough to use ext3, ext4 or a slew of other options.
They really are not considering the user when doing this options. The rural consumers where internet has caps and current cell phone plans where you need to mortgage the house to pay your cell phone bill because you only have one option. It would be nice if there was cable internet access available - would even settle for DSL.
With the use of external storage moving/recovering from a failed device to new device is so much quicker and easier to accomplish. There is no worries if you will hit your caps while trying to recover. Spending more time in locations that do not have service is a bit easier as I can have more movies/music/documents with external storage.
The loss is becoming annoying and will end with the device being rooted to gain back the features that were purchased in the device to begin with.

quite a few of us with windows tablets utilize the option of installing applications on external drives all the time. windows tablets generally come with the same amount of storage as an android tablet and since window full apps are far bigger than mobile apps an external option is almost required. its a pain trying to launch rust from my t100's sdcard, but at least I have the option to do it. and with my 700t I can crack it open a install a larger msata if needed. i think most of the higher end windows tablets have upgradeable drives... at the cost of loosing warranty however.
TabGuy said:
Barry,
You bring up good points. Here's how'd I'd answer this...
On a PC it's different. Removable storage is generally used for transfer of data. People don't put apps on an external SD card and run them from there. They use an internal disk drive for apps. Why? Because they have a lot of internal disk. Yes, external storage is used for storing movies.
On a phone or tablet people are trying to use an external SD card as an extension of the internal storage. It's not meant to be used as such. It's a transfer medium or video storage medium. And, that's exactly the direction it's going.
I don't think that cloud services are driving this decision. After all, cloud connections are considerably slower than an SD card. And, if one wants to connect external data for file transfers there will still be OTG connections. I think that this will force manufacturers to increase internal memory. Look for 128Gig and 256Gig internal memory in the future. Once that happens people will forget about external SD cards.
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TabGuy said:
We can complain all we want but external card support is going away. Suggestions as to what Google should do are not the reality of the future. Embracing what will be is a better strategy than wishing it would be different.
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You are forgetting that the voice of the customer is a powerful business tool. If we avoid the devices that do not have expandable storage (external cards), then the device manufacturers will continue to make devices with expandable storage. I for one will not even consider a device that does not have expandable storage. I will just keep my old devices, and when they die I will be done.
The more people that are not willing to submit, the louder our collective voices. Those telling us to "bend over and enjoy it" are part of the problem.

Here's an idea -- if developers are having such problems supporting external storage with their apps then..uh..don't. Just clearly state that in the description of your app, don't support it, and there isn't a problem. But taking away external storage options from people who want to put large movie files on their devices, or record videos or still pics to an external SD card rather than internal memory is just stupid and going to make a lot of people unhappy. All these new phones are being advertised as camera replacements...how many cameras have you seen that only have internal memory? Oops.
If there's ever a day that all Android phones don't support external storage, then that will be the day that I no longer buy a $400 phone under contract every two years. Instead, I'll be buying the $0.99 special that will do voice/SMS, and then I'll abuse the crap out of the data plan by tethering it to a real device. And if there's ever a day that Android tablets don't have external storage, that will be the day that I go back to a ultrabook or (gasp) a Windows tablet. If the industry wants to shoot themselves in the foot, well, there have been larger companies/industries who have failed because of equally stupid decisions (cough cough...Blackberry...cough...Palm...cough cough).

WJThomas said:
You are forgetting that the voice of the customer is a powerful business tool. If we avoid the devices that do not have expandable storage (external cards), then the device manufacturers will continue to make devices with expandable storage. I for one will not even consider a device that does not have expandable storage. I will just keep my old devices, and when they die I will be done.
The more people that are not willing to submit, the louder our collective voices. Those telling us to "bend over and enjoy it" are part of the problem.
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I agree with you on every point.
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