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hi,
having a discussion with my friend about our phones and why hero is better than his.
I have a friend, he has iphone 3GS. Says that he can Multi-task on it. He can play music in the background, make a call on bluetooth, and surf the net; all at the same time.
This sounds like multi-tasking to me.
SO.. what am I missing? please enlighten me.
PS.. I love my hero!!!
You can do certain multitasking on an unjailbroken iPhone, but can't run multiple apps at once. ie. you can't have an RSS app running in the background looking for updates, a twitter client waiting for messages and something else in the foreground.
AFAIK. But if it's jailbroken then I believe you can multitask.
listening to music on the background is not multitasking if you ask me.
oh.. yes.. he is jailbroken...
Why would he want to listen to music while making a phone call?
I have a 3GS and use pro switcher. This is multitasking that causes me no
lag or battery drain. more here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9C0oFj40Ms&feature=related
rdgut said:
listening to music on the background is not multitasking if you ask me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having owned a 2g/3g/3gs and Android phones I can tell you for certain 3gs is not multitasking, although it makes up for it very well.
Its a bad example I know but the moment you press the home button on the iphone it will either quit the app completely, or suspend it. When its suspended the app cannot carry out other tasks, Tomtom passes a junction you should have turned at, you've missed it because the phone isnt multi tasking. Wheras your android phone tells you to "Please turn Left in 300yds"
A good example of iphone os's made up "multi tasking" is the ability for you to exit certain apps (the stock apps are best) and resume as if you were multitasking - Contacts for example, opening a contact then hitting home, openning your emails, hitting home again, then going back to contacts, and it maintains the same view, as if you've never left that screen. Its a simple thing but works really well.
Phones I've had in the last 12 months include the G1, HTC Diamond, HTC Touch, iPhone 2g, 3g, 3gs (all size variants), HD2 leo, + a few others that I cant remember, and soon a Hero so I've tried pretty much every smartphone available.
Oh.. and my 3gs is jailbroken for that very reason I need true multi tasking on a couple of apps rather than push notifications Backgrounder to the rescue
ldavies83 said:
A good example of iphone os's made up "multi tasking" is the ability for you to exit certain apps (the stock apps are best) and resume as if you were multitasking - Contacts for example, opening a contact then hitting home, openning your emails, hitting home again, then going back to contacts, and it maintains the same view, as if you've never left that screen. Its a simple thing but works really well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android does this too, as well as allowing true multi-tasking.
Regards,
Dave
Raptor-21 said:
Why would he want to listen to music while making a phone call?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahahahaha Nice one
Raptor-21 said:
Why would he want to listen to music while making a phone call?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
joking aside...
It was just an example...
anyways, can anyone..
give me a better way to show me and my friend, how to confirm that the iphone can not multi-task???
Dan330 said:
give me a better way to show me and my friend, how to confirm that the iphone can not multi-task???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Spotify is a good example. Stream some music and then switch away from the app to do something else - the music will stop. This doesn't happen with the Android version.
Of course, if he's jailbroken and running Backgrounder, this won't apply, as he could use Backgrounder to stick Spotify into the background but it does highlight the issue for most iPhone users.
It should really be stressed though that the iPhones lack of multi-tasking is not a technical issue with the OS - the OS is perfectly capable of multi-tasking, and indeed many of Apples own apps are permitted to multi-task.
The issue is that Apple specifically disallow 3rd party apps from multi-tasking as they believe this "improves" the user experience. This may well be true for the vast majority of iPhone users, but personally I'd prefer the choice without having to resort to jailbreaking the phone.
I fully expect Apple to relent in the very near future, and a future OS version will allow apps to run in the background. This will be quite ironic if they do so, because apparently Windows Phone 7 is purported to disallow multi-tasking too!
Regards,
Dave
Dan330 said:
give me a better way to show me and my friend, how to confirm that the iphone can not multi-task???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a addict of moutain walk. I am use to record my tracks on google earth with my phone. Some applications in Android/Iphone OS do that)
With an iphone i cannot do anything else! With android i can listen webradio music, send a picture of the landscape by email to friends, look landscape infos and historical informations on the web, tweet, use google buzz, etc.. while always recording my tracks.
It's impossible to do that with an Iphone! I have to stop the recording that is really stupid!
Locale is the example I often use. Runs in the background and changes phone settings based on location, etc.
a simple test would be entering a url in the browser, hitting enter and immediately going back to the home screen. then wait a minute or so and go back to the browser.
on the iphone the browser will have stopped loading the page and will have to reload. on android the page will have loaded in the background and will be fully rendered.
although the iphone can support multitasking when jailbroken with apps like backgrounder, i find it a hassle i can happily live without on my hero
Locale would be my example as well -- love the app to death <3
As much as this pains me to say...
Palm Pre/Pixi = True Multitasking
klbjr said:
As much as this pains me to say...
Palm Pre/Pixi = True Multitasking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what this is supposed to mean when Android supports "true multitasking".
Regards,
Dave
Full multitasking with every app's UI being constantly updated is a flawed concept, especially on restrictive environments such as smartphones. After all, we can only see one app at a time on these small screens of ours.
The key element here is background services. Android has support for background services, meaning anyone can write a music player and have it play music in background. iPhone does not allow that; only the stock music player can run a background service to play music.
The example applies no only to music players, but to IM apps, to email, etc. A prime example would be browsing the web with an IM app running in background. Impossible on iPhone, and done by many on Android.
iPhone tries to remedy the situation by offering push notifications, but they rely on external servers sending notifications to the phone, and we all know how pleasant it is to get a popup in our face while we're playing a game. Besides, push notifications don't address the problem of background services that do things other than sending notifications, such as the music player.
Android's multitasking model is a good example of how background services should work on phones. It separates the UI from the service, so that the UI can be suspended or even killed while the service still does its job.
On a sidenote, I'm quite sure Windows Phone 7 will have support for background services. Their main point is how most apps will be directly integrated into their UI, though. I like the concept.
foxmeister said:
Not sure what this is supposed to mean when Android supports "true multitasking".
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well maybe I should have clarified. Yes the Hero allows for background apps to continue to run when you switch away from it to another app. It's the whole process of switching between the different apps that to me encompasses "true multitasking". The Pre/Pixi just handles the whole process much more smoothly and fluid. Better than any phone currently on the market. That is the only reason why I haven't gotten rid of mine as of yet. Even after having the TP2, Moment and now Hero, I still find myself using my Pre for most daily tasks. For me, I can do things twice as fast on my Pre than any other phone I have had and they are without question the Multitasking King/Queen of the market.
Is Multi-tasking currently supported in 2.1? I get this doubt because everytime I open a new application the previous goes hidden. This apparently takes up or keeps eating the resources in the background.
Instead, if 2.2 (froyo) comes up with something like the iPhone 4 handles it will be simply superb. I know even now there are add ins from the market, still they are not easy and friendly as iPhone 4 handles multi-tasking - where we can simply scroll through the application and open or close or minimise the different applications that are already open.
Please someone confirm this...or am I missing something until android 2.2 comes out.
Your right... whenever I am running an application and I press the menu button then start another application, I can see the old application running in the Services (or background).
When I quit the new application and go back to the former app, it shows me where I left off... Now, this is "technically" multi-tasking but of the sucky kind...
To minimize just press the homebutten. To switch between the last 6 task just press the homebuton for about 1 second.
In 2.1, you still long press the home key to show the most recently run applications. This is not necessary the running application. You could have manually closed an application but it will still be shown. Similarly, you could have application actually running and yet not shown there.
Another point to be aware is that although long press of home key brings up the most recently used application and allows you to jump to them, there is no facility to force close an application from there; unlike in iOS4, where on the multitasking application dock, you can force close it, as well as jumping to that application.
Another key difference between the two is that in Android 2.1, only the last 6 used applications are shown, although most of the time, I find 20+ applications running, often started by themselves mysteriously (that's another story though). So, for the running application not listed as one of the six, you can't jump to them via long pressing home. Instead, you have to go back to the desktop, find your application, and launch the application in order to switch to them.
So yah, 2.1 is a little "backward" still compared to iOS4. Hopefully 2.2 improves on this.
As far as I know the multitasking from android is better than the one in iOS4. Multitasking is not complete on iOS4, there are some applications that you are not available to use as multitasking application.
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html
Here is the link to why and how the android multitasking works.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/199528/multitasking_with_ios_4_is_horrible_apple_blew_it.html
Here an article of PCWORLD giving negative feedback about iOS4 multitasking
eaglesteve said:
In 2.1, you still long press the home key to show the most recently run applications. This is not necessary the running application. You could have manually closed an application but it will still be shown. Similarly, you could have application actually running and yet not shown there.
Another point to be aware is that although long press of home key brings up the most recently used application and allows you to jump to them, there is no facility to force close an application from there; unlike in iOS4, where on the multitasking application dock, you can force close it, as well as jumping to that application.
Another key difference between the two is that in Android 2.1, only the last 6 used applications are shown, although most of the time, I find 20+ applications running, often started by themselves mysteriously (that's another story though). So, for the running application not listed as one of the six, you can't jump to them via long pressing home. Instead, you have to go back to the desktop, find your application, and launch the application in order to switch to them.
So yah, 2.1 is a little "backward" still compared to iOS4. Hopefully 2.2 improves on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..now that's one place where we look ancient than iOS4, are there any words that this will be improved in 2.2?
Instead it could have just been without multi-tasking so when we start a new app the previous one to get closed atleast that saves on the RAM. I hate iPhones but just this feature makes me disturbed why android hasn't dones this yet as this is so very basic.
I know the third part app in the adroid market does this but not as elegant as the iphone 4 handles this.
sany said:
..now that's one place where we look ancient than iOS4, are there any words that this will be improved in 2.2?
Instead it could have just been without multi-tasking so when we start a new app the previous one to get closed atleast that saves on the RAM. I hate iPhones but just this feature makes me disturbed why android hasn't dones this yet as this is so very basic.
I know the third part app in the adroid market does this but not as elegant as the iphone 4 handles this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the way iOS4 handles it is not even half as elegant as the way jailbroken phones do it. It is even better to disable iOS4 task switcher and use Cydia task switchers (there are 5 or 6 different method, you pick the one that you like most). If I'm the developer at Google, I'd copy jailbroken iPhone's switcher called the Circuitous. With it, you can swipe the task bar left or right to go to the previous or next active application!!! You can also double press the home key for example to show a list of task actually running (rather than most recently launched applications). You press home key to truly quite the application, and long press to make it run in the background while in both case show the desktop.
I personally don't like the task switcher in iOS4. It does not let me force close the application with the same act of quiting it. Instead, one has to bring up the task list and remove it there in order to force close. This is not productive. Also, very often I toggle betwen two or three application, and I find swiping the taskbar to be a lot more fun and productive.
How do I know if there's programs running in the background or not?
And how do I shut down programs where I can't find any Quit button (mostly of the programs I think is like this).
Chrilleee said:
How do I know if there's programs running in the background or not?
And how do I shut down programs where I can't find any Quit button (mostly of the programs I think is like this).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung's stock widget will tell you if anything is "running" other things will be idling that the widget may or may not pick up on. You can pick up a 3rd party task killer to see more details.
3rd party task killers would be one way to quit the programs after closing. The way Android operates, if you hit the "back" button out of your program it quits running but will stay in memory if there is available room in your memory.
Actually the Android 'idea' is that you don't close applications. Android will keep applications around in case you want to go back, and only close them when memory is needed. Before closing them outright it will try to close secondary activities and recover memory elsewhere, so that closing an app is the last resort.
Android applications are explicitly organized in autonomous activities so that they can be stopped independently.
Keep in mind that the fact that an application is 'in background' does not mean that it is actually doing something, and empty memory does you no good unless it's actually needed, so it might as well be used to keep an application loaded.
Only applications that stay active in background have a quit button, like IM clients for example. The others don't have it because ideally you don't need to close them. Of course when the system does need to free memory you might experience some delay as applications are closed.
On the iPhone OS there is a similar model, with the difference that applications don't have 'activities' that can be independently closed. In case of memory starvation the OS first asks applications to free some memory, if possible, then starts killing them outright, but it has no means to force applications to free memory.
I stopped using task killers and found that they are not that needed unless you really can't stand small delays now and then. I didn't find the iPhone multitasking any friendlier at all...
eaglesteve said:
Actually, the way iOS4 handles it is not even half as elegant as the way jailbroken phones do it. It is even better to disable iOS4 task switcher and use Cydia task switchers (there are 5 or 6 different method, you pick the one that you like most). If I'm the developer at Google, I'd copy jailbroken iPhone's switcher called the Circuitous. With it, you can swipe the task bar left or right to go to the previous or next active application!!! You can also double press the home key for example to show a list of task actually running (rather than most recently launched applications). You press home key to truly quite the application, and long press to make it run in the background while in both case show the desktop.
I personally don't like the task switcher in iOS4. It does not let me force close the application with the same act of quiting it. Instead, one has to bring up the task list and remove it there in order to force close. This is not productive. Also, very often I toggle betwen two or three application, and I find swiping the taskbar to be a lot more fun and productive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there anything similar to Circuitous available in the market for use.
thanks
S
I really do not understand how people say that iOs 4 is better in multitasking than 2.1 android. I've used the "multitasking" feature of iPhone and it is for sure not multitasking. It behaves as it should only for native apps and I believe it will not finally work for every application of the appstore.
On the other hand, multitasking on android is better. Every app you choose to re-start comes at the state you left it. Not on the first screen. Of course there is a lot of room for development, but it actually is multitasking and not multitasking in quotes.
P.S. I kind of laugh with Jobs's enthusiasm for things that already exist in the market even for years (for example videocall). It is like they invented something revolutionary and actually there are many people who totally fall for all these...
Uneducated sheep...
darnap; said:
On the iPhone OS there is a similar model, with the difference that applications don't have 'activities' that can be independently closed. In case of memory starvation the OS first asks applications to free some memory, if possible, then starts killing them outright, but it has no means to force applications to free memory.
I stopped using task killers and found that they are not that needed unless you really can't stand small delays now and then. I didn't find the iPhone multitasking any friendlier at all...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damap,
In both iOS 4 and jailbroken iPhone running backgrounded, any activities other than the telephone application can be manually closed rather then left running in the background, in order to free up memory.
I don't know about the other Android phones but I find SGS unbearably slow, whether if I do not use task killer to manually kill off the application every now and then. Not sure how much of it is due to the way Android multitask though.
ivas75 said:
I really do not understand how people say that iOs 4 is better in multitasking than 2.1 android. I've used the "multitasking" feature of iPhone and it is for sure not multitasking. It behaves as it should only for native apps and I believe it will not finally work for every application of the appstore.
On the other hand, multitasking on android is better. Every app you choose to re-start comes at the state you left it. Not on the first screen. Of course there is a lot of room for development, but it actually is multitasking and not multitasking in quotes.
P.S. I kind of laugh with Jobs's enthusiasm for things that already exist in the market even for years (for example videocall). It is like they invented something revolutionary and actually there are many people who totally fall for all these...
Uneducated sheep...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is some important points to be aware of, and most iPhone users are not aware of these points:
- If you want "true" multitasking, you must jailbreak and use backgrounder. All third party applications could then multitask. However, even that will not have two applications with audio running simultaneously. So, you can't have radio and music playing at the same time. The one in the background must pause.
- To be eligible for multitasking under iOS4 third party applications must specifically enable so. If not, you can only multitask them with jail breaking.
- if an application has been enabled for multitasking under iOS4, then backgrounder application in a jailbroken phone offers the option of letting user select the method of multitasking. The choices are to either multitask this application the "true" way as it always did prior to iOS4, or the iOS4 way (which means you don't start your applications from the beginning, but when in background, only certain processes such as GPS, VOIP, downloading, audio are running), or to automatically select the method, which means that if the application has been enabled for iOS4 multitasking then that mode will be used, otherwise it will multitask the "true" way.
sany; said:
Is there anything similar to Circuitous available in the market for use.
thanks
S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I'm not aware of such customization possibility yet. But i would like to request for such tools so that multitasking in Android can be more easily performed. One thing about using back button for quitting application is that I find it goes to a different screen of the same application rather than the previous application, so it can be confusing. Sometime back button merely get rid of a pop up message but does not seem to quit the application.
You can't really get more simple than the os doing everything for you though. The point with android is you don't think about things like multi-tasking and just use your phone. Can't get more simple and elegant than that.
There is no need for a task manager like ios as you just open the apps you want without worrying about closing apps, or what's open and what's not.
ios on the other hand uses sudo multi-tasking, the apps don't actually stay open. I'm sure this works well but it has it's limitations. So when you close an app in ios task manager, you are not actually closing the app as it is already closed, essentialy you are just removing the icon from the drawer.
Android's system is far better. Why have a task manager when you don't need one, and especially when you only use sudo multi-tasking so the apps in the task manager are not even open at all.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
bushbox browser said:
You can't really get more simple than the os doing everything for you though. The point with android is you don't think about things like multi-tasking and just use your phone. Can't get more simple and elegant than that.There is no need for a task manager like ios as you just open the apps you want without worrying about closing apps, or what's open and what's not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both Android and iOS4 are exactly the same in saying that nobody shoud have to manually close an application. Both advocates that you let the OS close it when resources are insufficient. For iOS4, most of the application merely save the state where you left off, so it is not actually active, but with some exceptions: GPS, VOIP, audio playing, downloading, etc.
However, I personally do not find it to my liking. If I've been using say TomTom navigation software and have just completed a trip, and know that I wont be using it again in the next few days, I would rather be able to long press the home key to completely stop it, instead of just pressing the home key to keep it running in the background.
bushbox browser said:
So when you close an app in ios task manager, you are not actually closing the app as it is already closed, essentialy you are just removing the icon from the drawer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bushbox browser, this is not how it works, based on what I was told. If you have removed the icon from the multitasking dock, then come back to launch the application, it will start from the beginning rather than where you last left of. This was a question that I asked and was told the answer. Therefore, it is capable of stopping the task from running there, not merely removing the icon from the drawer.
Hope that helps to clear up the misconception.
eaglesteve said:
Both Android and iOS4 are exactly the same in saying that nobody shoud have to manually close an application. Both advocates that you let the OS close it when resources are insufficient. For iOS4, most of the application merely save the state where you left off, so it is not actually active, but with some exceptions: GPS, VOIP, audio playing, downloading, etc.
However, I personally do not find it to my liking. If I've been using say TomTom navigation software and have just completed a trip, and know that I wont be using it again in the next few days, I would rather be able to long press the home key to completely stop it, instead of just pressing the home key to keep it running in the background.
bushbox browser, this is not how it works, based on what I was told. If you have removed the icon from the multitasking dock, then come back to launch the application, it will start from the beginning rather than where you last left of. This was a question that I asked and was told the answer. Therefore, it is capable of stopping the task from running there, not merely removing the icon from the drawer.
Hope that helps to clear up the misconception.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks all, it is really comforting enough to see comments from knowledgeable people in the forum who are really researching with the apps and how they work.
My only concern is that nothing in the background should slowdown the performance by hogging the resource. As long as it is taken care off that is fine.
sany said:
thanks all, it is really comforting enough to see comments from knowledgeable people in the forum who are really researching with the apps and how they work.
My only concern is that nothing in the background should slowdown the performance by hogging the resource. As long as it is taken care off that is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My concern is the same as yours too. Unfortunately, I'm personally of the view that allowing so many applicaitons to be kept alive DO hog resources and slow things down. Therefore I'm using the task killer on my SGS to manage it. I'm using a task killer that also kill itself after killing off the unwanted task, so that itself would not be taking more resources (or at least that's how I hope would turn out).
Then the other aspect of multitasking is the user interface or how we effect:
- showing all live applications (not just most recent 6 applications), to swith there. As I said, I've notice that on my SGS, if left alone, typically have 20 to 30 applications live. The long press of the home button showing just 6 of them is not exactly a workable way to switch, is it?
- then, there is an issue of being given the freedom to truely quit an application rather than minimise it to the background, and here Android's as well as iOS4's design leaves much to be desired IMO. They both need to learn from jailbroken iPhone's backgrounder.
- finally, I believe Android as an OS could improve by having a true task manager showing applications which are truely alive, thus allowing switching to them, as well as allowing quitting of the listed applications. Yes, if user want to let the OS manage it they could just leave the list alone and not quit it, but freedom should be given to users to do so.
That's the reason I much prefer the jailbroken iPhone's method of multitasking (especially when using the Circuitous method of task switching) over iOS4 as well as Android's.
This is like a neverending story, when I had WM phone everybody was b*tching about the way he have to go to task manager and close apps and always look for tha apps that are running. Now I have android which is doing everything on its own, u dont have to care about running apps and now is everybody dreaming about iPhonish multitasking. Did I land on Mars here?
Cause I'm about to return this thing.
Software/OS wise:
- I guess this is an Android "thing", but the phone is constanly launching random programs in the background that I had nothing to do with, and it noticeably slows the phone down. If I see Sense stuttering, I'll run ATK, kill the dozen or so random things thta somehow launched all by themselves, and the phone is snappy again. Today I was typing a text message, and the phone was so slow, it was only registering one character every 5 seconds or so in the message. I went tho ATK, a whole ****load of random stuff was running, I killed it all, text messaging goes back to normal. How can you use an OS that randomly launches apps that degrade system performance? And as far as I can tell there's no way to remove the apps, or keep them from randomly launching on thier own in the background. I thought Android apps running in the background were supposed to not use any resources? But these a re having a noticible impact, clear as day. Sluggish UI, run ATK, kill the apps, silky smooth UI.
- I despise threaded SMS and you can't turn it off.
- I hate the little gray faces in the people list, and you can't turn them off
- Don't like the transparent folder backgrounds, and you can't do anything about it.
Hardware wise:
- The volume rocker is in a terrible positoin and is way to easy to accidentally hit. And apparently you need root to do anything about by remapping the keys
- If the phone is locked, sliding out the keyboard just a little bit wakes up the phone unlocked. andthen when trying to slide the KB back in you end up hitting buttons and hittingthe volume rocker, it's just annoying
- Suffers from the iPhone 4 "holding the phone in your righthand cuts your signal strength by 3 bars" problem
I mean, by themselves, none of these is a huge deal (except the OS slowing itself to a crawl, WTF is up with that?), but add them all up, on tp of the fact I'm paying $30 more a month over my Mogul, and I think this thing is going back to the Sprint store this weekend.
Kinda shocking that 5 years later the latest Androis phone still can;t match my Mogul in terms of useability.
emkorial said:
Cause I'm about to return this thing.
Software/OS wise:
- I guess this is an Android "thing", but the phone is constanly launching random programs in the background that I had nothing to do with, and it noticeably slows the phone down. If I see Sense stuttering, I'll run ATK, kill the dozen or so random things thta somehow launched all by themselves, and the phone is snappy again. Today I was typing a text message, and the phone was so slow, it was only registering one character every 5 seconds or so in the message. I went tho ATK, a whole ****load of random stuff was running, I killed it all, text messaging goes back to normal. How can you use an OS that randomly launches apps that degrade system performance? And as far as I can tell there's no way to remove the apps, or keep them from randomly launching on thier own in the background.
- I despise threaded SMS and you can't turn it off.
- I hate the little gray faces in the people list, and you can't turn them off
- Don't like the transparent folder backgrounds, and you can't do anything about it.
Hardware wise:
- The volume rocker is in a terrible positoin and is way to easy to accidentally hit. And apparently you need root to do anything about by remapping the keys
- If the phone is locked, sliding out the keyboard just a little bit wakes up the phone unlocked. andthen when trying to slide the KB back in you end up hitting buttons and hittingthe volume rocker, it's just annoying
- Suffers from the iPhone 4 "holding the phone in your righthand cuts your signal strength by 3 bars" problem
I mean, by themselves, none of these is a huge deal (except the OS slowing itself to a crawl, WTF is up with that?), but add them all up, on tp of the fact I'm paying $30 more a month over my Mogul, and I think this thing is going back to the Sprint store this weekend.
Kinda shocking that 5 years later the latest Androis phone still can;t match my Mogul in terms of useability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok - a long list of complaints. I'll try to address a few, but I don't think there are any "fixes" for any of these problems.
1. Have not had this happen on this phone. Not sure what is running....what were you doing at the time? What apps do you have installed?
2. You'd prefer a single message? Not really sure I understand the issue with threaded SMS...
3. If you hate the gray faces, you can customize the picture for each person - if you don't feel like doing that, then stop complaining. To assign a picture for your contacts - Contacts - "Joe Smith" - Edit - then click the Camera to the left of the contacts name. You can assign any picture you want.
4. This is something that can be modified once we have perm. root, I believe. Is customizable if you modify LPP or ADW.
5. I see a lot of people complaining about the terrible placement. I've only hit them once when closing the phone, but they are almost in the same position as my Heroc, so it must be a habit from avoiding that rocker.
6. My slider needs to slide until I see the 2nd row of keys before the screen turns on. Not sure if yours is diff. or not, but that seems acceptable to me. Perhaps you want to put a lock code or pin on, and then it won't open to the homescreen, etc.
7. I have noticed that too, but really almost every phone has this to some effect. And I've only watched the signal strength bars in the notifications bar. We should watch the signal strength (dB) to see if there really is a drastic difference. It hasn't negatively impacted my use of the phone (on a call, or surfing the web) so I don't really see it as an issue, but more of a pet peeve.
Sorry to hear you are so turned off by your experience so far. hope some of what I've written is useful.
There is no need for a task killer. Just because you see those apps in the backround doesnt actually mean they are running. Android works different in the fact that those are stored in ram to actually save battery if you were to open those apps. It doesnt use more battery to have those apps stored in your ram. Since froyo was introduced there is no reason to use ATK unless there is an aftermarket app that you know will cause power drain.
There is an app called Volume Locker. It will keep you from being able to change the volume level.
Also, there are different dialers out there that offer different looks if you dont like the sense dialer.
I dont have any issue with my bars going down when holding my phone. The reason that happens to an Iphone is because they built the antenna around the case of the phone. It's not built like that with the shift.
Is this your 1st android phone?
emkorial said:
Cause I'm about to return this thing.
Software/OS wise:
- I guess this is an Android "thing", but the phone is constanly launching random programs in the background that I had nothing to do with, and it noticeably slows the phone down. If I see Sense stuttering, I'll run ATK, kill the dozen or so random things thta somehow launched all by themselves, and the phone is snappy again. Today I was typing a text message, and the phone was so slow, it was only registering one character every 5 seconds or so in the message. I went tho ATK, a whole ****load of random stuff was running, I killed it all, text messaging goes back to normal. How can you use an OS that randomly launches apps that degrade system performance? And as far as I can tell there's no way to remove the apps, or keep them from randomly launching on thier own in the background. I thought Android apps running in the background were supposed to not use any resources? But these a re having a noticible impact, clear as day. Sluggish UI, run ATK, kill the apps, silky smooth UI.
- I despise threaded SMS and you can't turn it off.
- I hate the little gray faces in the people list, and you can't turn them off
- Don't like the transparent folder backgrounds, and you can't do anything about it.
Hardware wise:
- The volume rocker is in a terrible positoin and is way to easy to accidentally hit. And apparently you need root to do anything about by remapping the keys
- If the phone is locked, sliding out the keyboard just a little bit wakes up the phone unlocked. andthen when trying to slide the KB back in you end up hitting buttons and hittingthe volume rocker, it's just annoying
- Suffers from the iPhone 4 "holding the phone in your righthand cuts your signal strength by 3 bars" problem
I mean, by themselves, none of these is a huge deal (except the OS slowing itself to a crawl, WTF is up with that?), but add them all up, on tp of the fact I'm paying $30 more a month over my Mogul, and I think this thing is going back to the Sprint store this weekend.
Kinda shocking that 5 years later the latest Androis phone still can;t match my Mogul in terms of useability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) if your talking about things like FM radio, Sprint navigation, NFL, Sprint TV, etc running in the background. they arent using processor time just small bits of memory they launch in the background after certain triggers like "SMS Recieved" occur and you cant change that without full root, or you can use the temporary root and set it after every boot
2 and 3) i believe you can with handsent or chomp
3) not without full root and nand unlock
as for the rest, havent had any issues with signal either on or off my airave so i cant really replicate your issue, havent had any slowness or slowdowns compared to the painfully buggy and slow mogul for sure.
There is no need for a task killer. Just because you see those apps in the backround doesnt actually mean they are running. Android works different in the fact that those are stored in ram to actually save battery if you were to open those apps. It doesnt use more battery to have those apps stored in your ram. Since froyo was introduced there is no reason to use ATK unless there is an aftermarket app that you know will cause power drain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but there is. Performance on the phone is noticably slower, sliuggish screen transitions, today my text messaging was barely working at all the phone was so bogged down. Killing tasks fixes the problem, so obviously those tasks are using some system resources. If they weren't I wouldn't care that they are there, but they are having a absolute impact of the phones performance and responsiveness.
none of the apps running were crazy stuff, there's maybe 2-3 things I installed from the market (Astra and Google Maps being the most frequnt) and the rest is preinstalled stuff, Teleus GPS, Voicemail, Gmail, Amazon MP3, etc. At the low point ATK says I have aorund 30M memory free, clearing the apps out brings it up to 160.
This isn't a "things running in the background bugs me", it's "these things are slowing the phone down.
2. You'd prefer a single message? Not really sure I understand the issue with threaded SMS...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, each messgae should be a message. Unto itself. I know some people like threaded, and that's fine, but why is there no option to turn threaded SMS off? I can specify seperate auto completoin settings for the soft keyboard and hardkeyboard for crying out loud, but I can't choose how I want text messages displayed?
3. If you hate the gray faces, you can customize the picture for each person - if you don't feel like doing that, then stop complaining. To assign a picture for your contacts - Contacts - "Joe Smith" - Edit - then click the Camera to the left of the contacts name. You can assign any picture you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, pardon me while I run off to snap 150 pictures and assign them all. I should be able to customize the view to no show pictures with the contacts, not be forec to have 1 chunk of screen real estate takend up "mystery gray head man"
4. This is something that can be modified once we have perm. root, I believe. Is customizable if you modify LPP or ADW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats good to know, thanks
Also, there are different dialers out there that offer different looks if you dont like the sense dialer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The dialers fine, it's the contact list.
Is this your 1st android phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, an I knew there' be some getting used to things, but honestly, why am I paying more for a phone I have to get used to (and launches apps to slows down it's performance by itself)? I'l just go back to my Mogul, it works how I want, and is cheaper.
they arent using processor time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SOMETHING getting auto launched is using processor time, absolutely. When the phone is runing so slow I can;t even type a text message, and killing the running apps fixes the problem, then there's something running in the background slowing the phone down massively.
Might want to try killing apps 1 at a time to find out what the rogue process is... generally task managers do more harm than good.
You can also sync facebook photo's with contacts if any of your contacts are on your fb account... if you use facebook that is You can also assign photo's thru your gmail account on the web, that is an easier interface than on the phone.
There is really no getting around getting used to a new phone.. just takes some time to get comfortable with it. Usually a week or 2.
emkorial said:
but there is. Performance on the phone is noticably slower, sliuggish screen transitions, today my text messaging was barely working at all the phone was so bogged down. Killing tasks fixes the problem, so obviously those tasks are using some system resources. If they weren't I wouldn't care that they are there, but they are having a absolute impact of the phones performance and responsiveness.
none of the apps running were crazy stuff, there's maybe 2-3 things I installed from the market (Astra and Google Maps being the most frequnt) and the rest is preinstalled stuff, Teleus GPS, Voicemail, Gmail, Amazon MP3, etc. At the low point ATK says I have aorund 30M memory free, clearing the apps out brings it up to 160.
This isn't a "things running in the background bugs me", it's "these things are slowing the phone down.
SOMETHING getting auto launched is using processor time, absolutely. When the phone is runing so slow I can;t even type a text message, and killing the running apps fixes the problem, then there's something running in the background slowing the phone down massively.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to read up on this article. like I said before you only need to use it when you have a bad app. Close 1 at a time until you figure out the lag issue as I havnt had a single issue at all with lag. Why you shouldn't use task killers
When you close apps that always run they have to re-open and that uses CPU. All those apps running (except the one giving you issues) arent using any cpu just stored in your memory and if they need to be ran it actually saves CPU. You obvliously have more apps running than you think because I always have at the very least 80mb free. If you decide to root your phone you can always use auto killer memory optimizer and make it so if you hit a certain point it will close the empty apps etc.
Give it some time. Your obviously and amateur Android user (Please dont take offense) and will learn how they work and love it I promise.
I think you're the first person I've heard about who prefers Windows Mobile 6.X to Android. If that's the case, more power to you. Rock that Mogul and cut your monthly bill down and save some bucks. In this economy, nobody's going to argue with you over that.
Sounds like a lot of your gripes are just getting used to the phone. I've never once accidentally hit the volume rocker but I'm coming from a Sprint Hero too, so maybe that's why. If I cup my hand around the bottom of the phone I can get it to drop a bar or two, but I never hold my phone like that under normal use so it doesn't bother me. And my phone doesn't wake up until the keyboard is halfway out (2nd row of keys). If yours wakes from barely moving, maybe something is wrong with it? Take it back for a new one and see if that fixes the problem.
I haven't noticed any slowdown but again, I'm coming from the Hero and that was just a dog trying to run factory Sense. Some people have reported improved performance after performing a factory reset (though that's typically related to data speeds). Might be worth looking into if you're still having problems.
You need to read up on this article. like I said before you only need to use it when you have a bad app. Close 1 at a time until you figure out the lag issue as I havnt had a single issue at all with lag. Why you shouldn't use task killers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the who idea of android running crap in the background, and if it really worked as advertised and was using no CPU power, I wouldn;t care if there were 100 apps in the background. Whatever is running my my background is causing moderate performance issues most of the time, and occasionally severe performance issues.
Next time it happens I'll try the "kill them 1 at a time" thing and see if I can identify the culprit.
I recognize that most of this is just preference and getting used to the phone, but the performance degradation, the volume rocker, and the signal loss are, to me, enough added up to make the phone just not worth dealing with.
emkorial said:
I understand the who idea of android running crap in the background, and if it really worked as advertised and was using no CPU power, I wouldn;t care if there were 100 apps in the background. Whatever is running my my background is causing moderate performance issues most of the time, and occasionally severe performance issues.
Next time it happens I'll try the "kill them 1 at a time" thing and see if I can identify the culprit.
I recognize that most of this is just preference and getting used to the phone, but the performance degradation, the volume rocker, and the signal loss are, to me, enough added up to make the phone just not worth dealing with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that sucks you find one of the sickest Android phones not up to par. Maybe you should go back to a Windows phone lol
There's always the Jesus phone.
Also, the battery is doubling as a heater. I played angrybirds for about 20 minutes, my battery is reading 106 degrees F, and my hand is starting to sweat.
fifedogg said:
Well that sucks you find one of the sickest Android phones not up to par. Maybe you should go back to a Windows phone lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my windows phone doesn't launch mystery apps in the background to kill my performance, doesn't have threaded SMS, doesn't have transparent folders, doesn't put little grey heads next to my contacts, doesn't have any buttons that are easily pushed by mistake, doesn't have an overheating battery, doesn't unlock and wake up when the keyboard is opened, and doesn;t lose signal strength when you pick it up. So yeah, it's kinda dominating android on those points.
herbthehammer said:
There's always the Jesus phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Herb, I am quickly starting to love your posts!
Sent from my HTC Evo Shift 4G
Uh, I'd be inclined to think the device is defective or you installed something janky. I have only in a few situations with z4root seen lag on this thing.
I would try a factory reset (hold volume down while powering on the device, choose from menu) and see if that doesn't help. It will wipe the handset so be prepared for that.
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
Hard reset fixed most of my issues, but the only big one was the battery life anyways. Try that and hopefully it works for you too.
Life is too short to be miserable over a cell phone. Take it back and go back to the Mogul. You clearly like it better and it's cheaper per month. Win-win.
Peace out! Go rock that bad ass mogul til the wheels fall off.
Scent phrum mie fone!
etbrandt2 said:
Uh, I'd be inclined to think the device is defective or you installed something janky. I have only in a few situations with z4root seen lag on this thing.
I would try a factory reset (hold volume down while powering on the device, choose from menu) and see if that doesn't help. It will wipe the handset so be prepared for that.
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can you back up your contacts? The Sprint store copied them over from my Mogul for me, so they're all on the phone, no on my gMail account.
I'd like to hold out and see if some of these issues are fixable, because there is a lot I like about the phone too. I love the marketplace, I like the proximity sensor, I like close to 99% of Sense, the screen is gorgeous. Is there hopw that when the phone is rooted I'll be able to fix some of this stuff?
Peace out! Go rock that bad ass mogul til the wheels fall off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also got about a 50/50 split betweenn yes and no on whether or not I can go back to my SERO plan if I want to.
I'll give it a week, hopefully real root will be out by then, see if it helps/give the ability to fix some of this stuff, and if not, back to the Mogul. Much love for the 30 day return window!!
Unfortunately I think to get the contacts copied over to Google you'll need to log into your Google account and manually add them.
The nice thing is though, that once you start flashing ROM's they will automatically sync.
I find it much easier to go in and streamline my contacts on my computer.
Also, if you do not use Facebook or have pics to sync up from FB you can add pictures to your Google contacts and they will sync to the phone.
I have some questions re: multitasking. My understanding of the way that honeycomb works is that apps usually don't close when you exit them. They stay open until you use them again, or until honeycomb needs more memory, at which point it starts closing background apps. Is this accurate?
What puzzles me is that, if I have several apps open, some of which I want to keep running and some I don't mind if they get killed, when honeycomb needs memory it will just randomly kill apps?
This seems inefficient to me. Why doesn't it allow me to kill apps that I don't want and only "minimize" apps that I want to keep open? This seems inefficient but maybe I am missing something.
Most apps don't use any processing power when In the background, just ram. U could use a task killer however, it will probably just kill more battery life then it saves. Do u have performance issues when running lots of tasks? Ifso, THEN use a task killer to find out what is using up the processing performance and uninstall/stop the app.
(Using a task killer is NOT recommended)
Sent from my mailbox
I hear you. I think multitasking in Android (not just honeycomb) is an illusion. The new 3.1 "recent apps list" is just that... recent apps, it reopens apps you used, but as far as multitasking goes, it happens very rarely.
I'd love to be able to lock my browser into memory so it doesn't have to reload all the pages when I get back into it. I was filling out an online form and needed to get an order number from my gmail app... well, when I went back into the browser, it reloaded everything and I lost what I had filled - this is not multitasking.
I think the only true multitasking mobile os was windows mobile 6.5.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Dyskmaster said:
Most apps don't use any processing power when In the background, just ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess when apps are kept in RAM is isn't a big deal. After all, we have a whopping 1 gig to play with right? Who could ever use up that much?
EP2008 said:
I'd love to be able to lock my browser into memory so it doesn't have to reload all the pages when I get back into it. I was filling out an online form and needed to get an order number from my gmail app... well, when I went back into the browser, it reloaded everything and I lost what I had filled - this is not multitasking[\QUOTE]
It's a bug in the browser then. It should remember all you wrote even if it was closed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Magnesus said:
EP2008 said:
I'd love to be able to lock my browser into memory so it doesn't have to reload all the pages when I get back into it. I was filling out an online form and needed to get an order number from my gmail app... well, when I went back into the browser, it reloaded everything and I lost what I had filled - this is not multitasking[\QUOTE]
It's a bug in the browser then. It should remember all you wrote even if it was closed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically, if it was truly multitasking (as in keeping the browser running while doing another task), then it should have just resumed. This happens on all browsers, but not all the time, only when Android decides to kick it out of memory.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By far the best multitasking mobile OS is webOS. If a card is open and is anything other than a video, then it's running in the background unless the developer specifically codes it to suspend. Since I switched to Android, this is the one thing I miss the most about webOS.
For me, the only problem with how Android multitasks is with Quickoffice and Polaris Office. Try this: create a new document, add some text, and then start switching back and forth between it and other apps. Eventually (sometimes immediately) you'll return to a blank document, with no way to retrieve any edits. It's the same for a document that's been saved, and really limits how an Android device can be used to write long-form pieces while doing other things. Basically, you have to save every time before you switch to a different app (say, to look up some research).
In webOS, you'd just keep the card open and your document would be retained. And note: I'm not here to bash Android or glorify webOS. I did switch, after all. But man, either developers or Google have to fix this. At the very least, an app like Quickoffice should save its state when it's suspended, to include the currently open document. It doesn't actually have to run in the background, but it certainly shouldn't lose information.
Given how I'm using the Transformer, this a huge thing for me. I wouldn't switch to, say, the Touchpad, because webOS doesn't even have apps like this yet and probably won't for awhile. It might have Quickoffice sometime in the next few months, but that's about it. Oh, and the Touchpad is a weak tablet as well, and certainly doesn't have anything like the keyboard dock available. It's just that Google and the Android development community could learn a thing or two from webOS, starting with better multitasking support.
Okay, venting over. I feel much better now.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
wynand32 said:
By far the best multitasking mobile OS is webOS. If a card is open and is anything other than a video, then it's running in the background unless the developer specifically codes it to suspend. Since I switched to Android, this is the one thing I miss the most about webOS.
For me, the only problem with how Android multitasks is with Quickoffice and Polaris Office. Try this: create a new document, add some text, and then start switching back and forth between it and other apps. Eventually (sometimes immediately) you'll return to a blank document, with no way to retrieve any edits. It's the same for a document that's been saved, and really limits how an Android device can be used to write long-form pieces while doing other things. Basically, you have to save every time before you switch to a different app (say, to look up some research).
In webOS, you'd just keep the card open and your document would be retained. And note: I'm not here to bash Android or glorify webOS. I did switch, after all. But man, either developers or Google have to fix this. At the very least, an app like Quickoffice should save its state when it's suspended, to include the currently open document. It doesn't actually have to run in the background, but it certainly shouldn't lose information.
Given how I'm using the Transformer, this a huge thing for me. I wouldn't switch to, say, the Touchpad, because webOS doesn't even have apps like this yet and probably won't for awhile. It might have Quickoffice sometime in the next few months, but that's about it. Oh, and the Touchpad is a weak tablet as well, and certainly doesn't have anything like the keyboard dock available. It's just that Google and the Android development community could learn a thing or two from webOS, starting with better multitasking support.
Okay, venting over. I feel much better now.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just using the Playbook at staples and it also has the browser multitask problem... when I open a bunch of tabs (cnn, bbc, globeandmail, espn, etc.) and go to another app, returning to the browser causes all tabs to refresh - it's actually worse than on android because at least on android the tabs can remain "active" without the need to refresh SOME to MOST of the time.
So the illusion of multitasking remains on all mobile os's.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Multitasking means services running in the background. Which Android can, and does do. It does not mean having every single process and application running live in the background(who wants that anyways? not even windows does multi tasking like that anymore.).
JCopernicus said:
Multitasking means services running in the background. Which Android can, and does do. It does not mean having every single process and application running live in the background(who wants that anyways? not even windows does multi tasking like that anymore.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, light services that check for certain notifications is one thing, but apps that were run in the last 5 minutes should not close so quickly. In the meantime, I have a lot of services running and taking up memory that I DON'T want - I wish there was a way to adjust what apps stay in the memory (and which never load automatically), even if it does mean having to manually manage memory usage, I would rather it truly multitask than "fake it".
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Apps don't close, they are hibernated. If an app restarts from zero, it's a problem of the developer not implementing their save states properly. (I believe engadget app is notorious for this).
The concept of "closing" an app doesn't really exist. The closest thing is a force close, which is just removing it from memory.
There are a few apps that allow you tweak the thresholds, but they require root if I remember correctly.
Maybe even if it could use some of the 16/32 GB storage as a swap file it would help. It wouldn't slow the system down much since it's not on a magnetic platter like on a PC. I'd gladly give up a gig or two of my 32GB for a swap file if it meant the apps (or browser tabs) I was working with wouldn't get unloaded from memory while I was using them.
Mutnat said:
Maybe even if it could use some of the 16/32 GB storage as a swap file it would help. It wouldn't slow the system down much since it's not on a magnetic platter like on a PC. I'd gladly give up a gig or two of my 32GB for a swap file if it meant the apps (or browser tabs) I was working with wouldn't get unloaded from memory while I was using them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Archos did this on their 256mb ram devices (added 32mb swap I believe). It did absolutely nothing on those devices, but maybe a gig or two would make a difference. I'm willing to sacrifice some battery life and speed for a true multitasking device.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
JCopernicus said:
Apps don't close, they are hibernated. If an app restarts from zero, it's a problem of the developer not implementing their save states properly. (I believe engadget app is notorious for this).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear you, and I do wish Quickoffice and Polaris Office would handle this correctly. That's really my only concern with Android, that these apps lose edits and new text with frustrating regularity.
illusion multitasking ? lol
want to see fake multitasking ,look at ios,it fakes it. but android is pure multitasking. multitasking allows app to still running and finish it's process in the background. try open a browser,load a rich content page, change to other app,wait for few second n backt to browser,the page should be loaded.
case when ur app won't continue from previous state just because android has its own way to kill processes, this is merely due to memory management.
xufuchang said:
illusion multitasking ? lol
want to see fake multitasking ,look at ios,it fakes it. but android is pure multitasking. multitasking allows app to still running and finish it's process in the background. try open a browser,load a rich content page, change to other app,wait for few second n backt to browser,the page should be loaded.
case when ur app won't continue from previous state just because android has its own way to kill processes, this is merely due to memory management.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the point is, if I return to the browser more than just a few seconds later, it restarts and then reloads all my tabs - this isn't multitasking. With the amount of RAM we have on these devices, apps shouldn't be closing so aggressively - and worse yet, apps that I don't want in memory shouldn't be taking RAM away from important 'active' apps!
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
EP2008 said:
But the point is, if I return to the browser more than just a few seconds later, it restarts and then reloads all my tabs - this isn't multitasking. With the amount of RAM we have on these devices, apps shouldn't be closing so aggressively - and worse yet, apps that I don't want in memory shouldn't be taking RAM away from important 'active' apps!
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes some apps just buggy, even honehcomb itself isn't perfect. but multitasking sure is working in android.
wynand32 said:
By far the best multitasking mobile OS is webOS. If a card is open and is anything other than a video, then it's running in the background unless the developer specifically codes it to suspend. Since I switched to Android, this is the one thing I miss the most about webOS.
For me, the only problem with how Android multitasks is with Quickoffice and Polaris Office. Try this: create a new document, add some text, and then start switching back and forth between it and other apps. Eventually (sometimes immediately) you'll return to a blank document, with no way to retrieve any edits. It's the same for a document that's been saved, and really limits how an Android device can be used to write long-form pieces while doing other things. Basically, you have to save every time before you switch to a different app (say, to look up some research).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds like a design flaw in the applications. What happens when you switch to another application is the application being pushed into the background receives an OnPause() event. The application should handle this event by saving the user context in a manner that ensure no loss of data (ex write to the drive) and free resources. When you make the application the active you move it to the top of the activity stack and the app receives and OnResume() event. The app should handle this event by restoring the user context to the saved state.
This is all very well documented in the Android API along with the expectations of the actions the application should take. However, a developer can choose to ignore the recommendations.
jerrykur said:
That sounds like a design flaw in the applications. What happens when you switch to another application is the application being pushed into the background receives an OnPause() event. The application should handle this event by saving the user context in a manner that ensure no loss of data (ex write to the drive) and free resources. When you make the application the active you move it to the top of the activity stack and the app receives and OnResume() event. The app should handle this event by restoring the user context to the saved state.
This is all very well documented in the Android API along with the expectations of the actions the application should take. However, a developer can choose to ignore the recommendations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the explanation. I'm surprised then that these particular apps are having the problem--I mean, Quickoffice should know better, right?
Well, I've reported the issue, perhaps they'll resolve it.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Can someone clarify this for me... (as I am used to Windows).
Let say I will start task like zip/unzip of a file/files or download of a file from the net. Can I do something different in the meantime and wait for the task to finish in the background?
My single biggest gripe with the Android OS is the way it closes backgrounded applications without the user's permission, unrelated to available memory but rather amount of time the app is left idle. I can be editing a Word document in QuickOffice or Docs-to-Go, then get an incoming call, answer it and talk for ten minutes, only to find my Office application has been closed and all my changes have been lost.
I am wondering if perhaps by some small miracle, the Atrix has been programmed differently from other Android devices NOT to do this, because of its intended function as a desktop substitute via the Webtop environment. No one ever wants their desktop/laptop computer shutting down applications because they left to grab a coffee for ten minutes, so I'm hoping maybe the Moto devs took this into account and somehow turned off the "auto close backgrounded apps if left idle for X minutes" functionality of Android.
It's only a slim hope I'm holding out regarding this, but maybe someone can answer definitively one way or the other.. anyone know for sure?
No, it's still the same operating system. The Webtop is completely separate from Android.
Nope. I'm slightly annoyed every time adw ex is background killed just because I was reading my email, and it has to completely reload.
Not only that, but gingerbread took away the option to keep the launcher persistent
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If your app doesn't restore the previous state on restart, then the app developer is to blame, not android. Just saying
turl1 said:
If your app doesn't restore the previous state on restart, then the app developer is to blame, not android. Just saying
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Sorry, but Motorola's responsible for any killing of webtop. X isn't designed to be magically killed the way that Android kills things.
It is worth pointing out this is less of an issue on Atrix given the 1Gb of RAM... but yes, this is still Android and as such the memory management is ultimately the same.
I have had cases on the Atrix where I am playing Angry Birds, get distracted and browse the web, forget I was playing the game... then return to the game 1 hour later to find it's still running as I left it. This certainly would NOT have happened on my Galaxy S!
Sogarth said:
Sorry, but Motorola's responsible for any killing of webtop. X isn't designed to be magically killed the way that Android kills things.
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We were talking about android apps though
turl1 said:
If your app doesn't restore the previous state on restart, then the app developer is to blame, not android. Just saying
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Most apps do restore previous state.
They also take a while to do so.
On the other hand, my biggest gripe is resolved: cm7 has an built in option under he performance setting to keep the launcher persistant, so I don't really care anymore
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From my understanding of Android programming, it only closes Background tasks automatically, all apps are started as Background tasks by default, it's up to the app to tell Android that it's a Foreground app, and it can't be closed automatically.
Hmm, I've used QuickOffice and left it alone for a while (got distracted, went on the internet, checked emails, turned off the screen, etc) and it was still all there when I came back. Does it happen to you frequently?
As a test I just made a new word document and typed some random stuff into it. I'll leave it alone for a day in the background and see if it's still there tomorrow...
Restoring to previous state works for some types of apps, but for others it's not a viable solution. For example streaming radio applications or chat programs like eBuddy, Fring, Skype etc. These need to be left running constantly in the background, not just restored to where they left off, because otherwise you're not available to be contacted through them while they're closed/offline. Some of those apps use the workaround of an ongoing notification to avoid being shut down, but that is really just a trick that developers shouldn't have to resort to.
I find that both QuickOffice and Documents-To-Go get shut down constantly when left idle in the background, even with nothing else running or using memory, and after only ten minutes or so of idle time. And I always lose all unsaved changes - the previous state is never restored.
What seems to happen is this: I can leave a document in the background for hours, and then come back to it okay, IF I don't do anything else in between. But if before returning to the open document, I launch ANY other app first, even a very small footprint one like a notepad, THAT is when the previously backgrounded apps like QuickOffice get closed by Android. It seems that Android's auto-close-after-idle activity is triggered by the next time the user launches something else. That's when the check is done and idle apps get shut down.
There are free app-switching utilities like AltTabApps and Smart Taskbar which allow you to easily see which windowed apps/tasks are still currently running. Using these I have tested and confirmed that I can actually leave quite a few things running idle in the background for a full day, and every time I keep checking, they are all still there and open, waiting to be switched back to. But then as soon as I open a new small app, and all those others have been sitting there idle and backgrounded for long enough, *POOF*, they all get closed instananeously the moment the new app is opened.
And like I said it's not related to memory, because I can see how much is free, and the app I end up opening is very small as well.
So if you're going to test, don't just leave it for a day and then try to come back to it. Before you go back to it, open something else that ISN'T already running (such as email or text messaging which are always quietly open already).. choose a brand new app to open and then try to go back to your Quickoffice document. On the three or four Android 2.2 devices on which I have tried this, I have never, ever been able to return to a document without losing all changes.
Sorry for the long message.. just important to point out the mechanism at work so as to avoid a false positive result, since there are cases when you can return to documents when you haven't opened anything else new in between.
Ok, I see what you mean now. Tried it the way you said and left it for a good while and it did indeed lose the stuff I had typed. I can see how that would get frustrating...
Have you tried using a task manager and telling it to keep QuickOffice alive (i.e. for the system to never kill it)? Although this will probably eat your battery, so I guess only do this if you really need it. I doubt there's a way to turn the functionality off entirely, as it's a pretty core part of making multi-tasking work on low power consumption devices.
Even with my devices rooted, no task manager I have ever seen or tried has successfully been able to override the core Android system to keep-alive any app that I've specified. These utilities seem only to be able to affect their OWN task-closing habits or aggressiveness levels, but not to prevent the OS from doing its own thing separate from their internal settings.
Not to get side-tracked into an OS comparison, but I have an HTC Leo HD2 running Windows Mobile 6.5, and it is able to keep a dozen applications open in the background indefinitely, without ever slowing down or draining the battery. I can leave Word Mobile, Coreplayer, Internet Explorer, Opera Mobile, Windows Messenger, and a large handful of others all open and still get a strong couple of days out of the battery. Surely if an older OS like WinMo (and even WebOS and Symbian) can do this, Android should be capable of it too. For this very reason unfortunately, I have had to stick to Android 2.1 or WM devices as I need my apps to stay open until I decide to close them. I am always hoping though that a new 2.3 or 2.4 device will come along that allows disabling of this functionality by the user.
paleozord said:
Even with my devices rooted, no task manager I have ever seen or tried has successfully been able to override the core Android system to keep-alive any app that I've specified. These utilities seem only to be able to affect their OWN task-closing habits or aggressiveness levels, but not to prevent the OS from doing its own thing separate from their internal settings.
Not to get side-tracked into an OS comparison, but I have an HTC Leo HD2 running Windows Mobile 6.5, and it is able to keep a dozen applications open in the background indefinitely, without ever slowing down or draining the battery. I can leave Word Mobile, Coreplayer, Internet Explorer, Opera Mobile, Windows Messenger, and a large handful of others all open and still get a strong couple of days out of the battery. Surely if an older OS like WinMo (and even WebOS and Symbian) can do this, Android should be capable of it too. For this very reason unfortunately, I have had to stick to Android 2.1 or WM devices as I need my apps to stay open until I decide to close them. I am always hoping though that a new 2.3 or 2.4 device will come along that allows disabling of this functionality by the user.
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The keep persitant value was depreciated from android alltogether in 2.3. However, if cm7 can be set to keep alive the launcher and the messenger app, then it stands to say there is still a way around this.
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