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PenTile RGBW technology adds a white subpixel to the traditional red, blue, and green subpixels in a color display allowing a brighter display using less power.
The PenTile RGBW layout uses each red, green, blue and white subpixel to present high-resolution luminance information to the human eyes' red-sensing and green-sensing cone cells, while using the combined effect of all the color subpixels to present lower-resolution chroma (color) information to all three cone cell types.
Combined, this optimizes the match of display technology to the biological mechanisms of human vision. The layout uses one third fewer subpixels for the same resolution as the RGB Stripe (RGB-RGB) layout, in spite of having four color primaries instead of the conventional three, using subpixel rendering combined with metamer rendering. Metamer rendering optimizes the energy distribution between the white subpixel and the combined red, green, and blue subpixels: W <> RGB, to improve image sharpness.
The display driver chip has an RGB to RGBW color vector space converter and gamut mapping algorithm, followed by metamer and subpixel rendering algorithms. In order to maintain saturated color quality, to avoid simultaneous contrast error between saturated colors and peak white brightness, while simultaneously reducing backlight power requirements, the display backlight brightness is under control of the PenTile driver engine.
When the image is mostly desaturated colors, those near white or grey, the backlight brightness is significantly reduced, often to less than 50% peak, while the Liquid Crystal Display levels are increased to compensate.
When the image has very bright saturated colors, the backlight brightness is maintained at higher levels. Since most natural images and black on white text have few simultaneously bright and saturated colors, the average power of the PenTile RGBW panel is 50% less than a conventional RGB LCD.
Since the LCD backlight is the major power using component on many portable devices such as cell phones and personal media players, products that use the PenTile RGBW panel have appreciably longer battery life.
The PenTile RGBW also has an optional high brightness mode that doubles the brightness of the desaturated color image areas, such as black&white text, for improved outdoor view-ability.
The Motorola es400 and Motorola Atrix 4G cell phones use PenTile RGBW LCD displays.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
Not quite sure what the point of this thread is... all you did was copy and paste some info from wikipedia. I'm perfectly fine with the screen, though a lot of people seem upset. Those complaints seem to be slowing down at least. It's not the best screen, but it's perfectly fine to me for my phone. I'd be a bit more upset if all picture quality was messed up (both screen and via HDMI), but it looks perfectly fine on other screens.
i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.
Techcruncher said:
i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.
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what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.
dLo GSR said:
what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.
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Some of us have better vision than others.
I would gladly have paid more for anything that wasn't pentile. I try my best to ignore it, but it's so difficult when you can always see it.
..................
It might be a bit more power efficient but the yellows and oranges seriously look off and the greens like look a fly screen.
Also the pixel response rate is seriously bad, TONS of ghosting. This display really only works well with black text on a white background with not much animation.
Blind_Guardian said:
Some of us have better vision than others.
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I've had 20/20 all my life
dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
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Click to collapse
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
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Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.
I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.
hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
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If you read any of my posts in the main Pentile complaint thread, you'd know that I didn't even know the phone had a Pentile screen (or what that was for that matter) until after I got annoyed at the greens and yellows of the screen. It's ABSOLUTELY obvious that greens show jagged pixels, expecially when looking at thin greens (zoomed out text, lines, etc) and that yellows are more of a squash color. That was the first thing I noticed when zooming through some sites and playing Angry Birds (having played it on my iPod touch many times before). I then came on this site and read Anandtech's review and found out what a Pentile was.
If you can't tell the difference or shortcomings of a Pentile dispaly vs. a similarly dense display (i.e. the Retina) I can't point to anything else but denial. The screen is nice, but not that nice.
On an unrelated side note, I work in engineering for the modules that guide your fighter jets when you need to see without your eyes. I do wish I could take a ride in one though.
Atrix screen and HDMI sample videos
Last night I went to a concert and taped the show. The screen remained on for the entire 2 hours and still had 70% battery power left. If I were on my previous Captivate it would not have lasted 2 hours. It would seem the same people unhappy with the Atrix screen would be unhappy with the battery life if the Atrix had a different screen. I have posted this before: the Atrix screen is perfectly fine, even better than fine considering its efficiency. I have several hi res (720p) movies that look absolutely wonderful on the Atrix. Colors and resolution look beautiful. The colors do not have the super saturation of the Captivate, but still perfectly fine. Motorola should have provided some sample videos, but they didn't.
I was in the AT&T store playing around with the docks. There are 4 720p sample videos on the phone apparently only available thru HDMI. If someone could post those videos here so we can all have a look at them that may help quiet the screen concerns.
dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
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It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.
kkeo said:
It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.
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I don't disagree with that, but when you look at green text there us definitely a difference vs other colors.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Techcruncher said:
I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.
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aside from the iphone 4 which ofcourse has a better screen..
why would i want to go with an atrix screen and not a super amoled screen if i can see the pixels on both screens. yet the super amoled has better blacks and better colors in general ?
mind you i have used all phones including the atrix " even though it was a short period of time "
I am happy with the screen. It is not perfect, but then it is a mobile phone.
If i want awesome colors and deep blacks I have a rockin' 54" plasma. If I want super clear high resolution fonts, I got a great monitor.
I will trade a perfect phone screen for better battery any day. And for me, this pentile display is damn near perfect.
Blind_Guardian said:
Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.
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Lol nice one or maybe he is hypnotizing himself that the Pentile display is acceptable because he doesn't want to go through the trouble of returning the dual core webtop phone LOL :-D
But seriously SUPER AMOLED screen has very vibrant color which I actually like but the battery life is bad for web browsing. I wish they have sepcial designed webpage viewer to create black background and white text for SUPER AMOLED screen to conserve battery life.
Finally, I think I've gotten used to the Pentile screen color. Its not really good bit at least its acceptable eventhough the color are distorted and not sure if software can solve the color issue.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
So, everyone is complaining about the Atrix display? What about the cellphones dating back from the 1990's? I bet the display was pretty ****ty too. Oh wait, i dont see anyone complaining. Did any of you know about Pentile display back then? NO!?
Please spare us the comparison of what display is better etc..
Here is an idea. Why dont the rest of the ppl who complain about Pentile/SAMOLED etc..invent your own display? simple as that.
You dont like the display on the phone, DONT BUY IT! Stop whining about it.
Today I showed the screen of my galaxy s II to my iphone4 owning friend. We both loaded up bbc home page, and the white background on his phone looked much better than on my phone.
On my phone the white background looked cream in colour, where as his displayed as pure white.
Will this be able to be fixed with vodoo colour?
It can be helped with Voodoo color, but it can never look like an LCD based display since SAMOLED screens don't have the LED backlight in the back. And also, an iPhone 4's display has already been proven to be a bit blue tinted which makes whites look brighter when they're actually a slight shade of blue. I've spent a lot of time calibrating my Nexus S screen with Voodoo color and I can safely say the result is a more pleasant shade of white than my friend's iPhone 4. Also with Voodoo color I can boost the brightness higher than what the stock specifications permit so it's even a brighter white than the iPhone 4's if I want it to be, but it consumes a LOT of power.
Dannyboyni said:
Today I showed the screen of my galaxy s II to my iphone4 owning friend. We both loaded up bbc home page, and the white background on his phone looked much better than on my phone.
On my phone the white background looked cream in colour, where as his displayed as pure white.
Will this be able to be fixed with vodoo colour?
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Cream? Really? http://amishlandofct.com/resources/color+cream.jpg
At any rate - yes, voodoo colour can change the colour temperature.
Dannyboyni said:
Today I showed the screen of my galaxy s II to my iphone4 owning friend. We both loaded up bbc home page, and the white background on his phone looked much better than on my phone.
On my phone the white background looked cream in colour, where as his displayed as pure white.
Will this be able to be fixed with vodoo colour?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the nature of LCD and OLED makes the colors differ here in America. It also makes the colours differ in England and most of its former colonies.
You can try setting the separate brightness setting in the browser settings to 100% (it is separate from general brightness setting in the phone settings).
I bet it would still have a different hue if you look at them side by side.
You can also try taking a friend with an iP4 that is a year old to a store that sells iP4 now, and compare how they look - you will probably see some difference there too, side by side.
He was saying to me, "oh your screen tech hasn't evolved yet, you cant display proper white", haha, "my text is so much sharper than yours".
It was true about the text, my heart sank when I compared BBC homepage in portrait mode. His text looked MUCH sharper than mines. But then he has got a much higher resolution.
I really did feel humiliated, I just want nice pure white like the iphone4 has. I know I don't have a backlight.
RyanZA said:
Cream? Really? http://amishlandofct.com/resources/color+cream.jpg
At any rate - yes, voodoo colour can change the colour temperature.
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that is a freaking picture of some fabric, right??? because I got scared thinking my laptop LCD is showing banding on cream color.
Haha... I guess the only difference between boys and men are the price of their toys huh?
If you want to humiliate him, ask him to show you a black image. Then laugh at how much light leakage he has. Then play a high quality youtube clip like a movie trailer with some action scenes, then laugh at how slow his pixel response is (ghosting). Also while you're trying to play a high quality youtube clip... remind him that he needs to be on wifi in order to do it because he only gets low quality over 3G =)
Trust me I'd take the SAMOLED over an LCD display any day. Same reason I have a plasma TV and not an LCD/LED one.
Dannyboyni said:
He was saying to me, "oh your screen tech hasn't evolved yet, you cant display proper white", haha, "my text is so much sharper than yours".
It was true about the text, my heart sank when I compared BBC homepage in portrait mode. His text looked MUCH sharper than mines. But then he has got a much higher resolution.
I really did feel humiliated, I just want nice pure white like the iphone4 has. I know I don't have a backlight.
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dinan said:
Haha... I guess the only difference between boys and men are the price of their toys huh?
If you want to humiliate him, ask him to show you a black image. Then laugh at how much light leakage he has. Then play a high quality youtube clip like a movie trailer with some action scenes, then laugh at how slow his pixel response is (ghosting). Also while you're trying to play a high quality youtube clip... remind him that he needs to be on wifi in order to do it because he only gets low quality over 3G =)
Trust me I'd take the SAMOLED over an LCD display any day. Same reason I have a plasma TV and not an LCD/LED one.
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What, because you prefer an inferior picture quality? There is a reason the big manufacturers are phasing out plasma.
dinan said:
Haha... I guess the only difference between boys and men are the price of their toys huh?
If you want to humiliate him, ask him to show you a black image. Then laugh at how much light leakage he has. Then play a high quality youtube clip like a movie trailer with some action scenes, then laugh at how slow his pixel response is (ghosting). Also while you're trying to play a high quality youtube clip... remind him that he needs to be on wifi in order to do it because he only gets low quality over 3G =)
Trust me I'd take the SAMOLED over an LCD display any day. Same reason I have a plasma TV and not an LCD/LED one.
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I second this.
Why didn't you test the black on both screens too?
Iphone4 does have a higher resolution, so it's silly to go comparing that, since it's a known fact.
dinan said:
Trust me I'd take the SAMOLED over an LCD display any day. Same reason I have a plasma TV and not an LCD/LED one.
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I would go one step further: comparing SGS2 screen to iP4 screen is like sitting on a coach 15 feet from TV and comparing a fine 480P 37 inch plasma TV with a "finer" 4K 32 inch LCD TV
Pagnell said:
What, because you prefer an inferior picture quality? There is a reason the big manufacturers are phasing out plasma.
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They are phasing out plasmas because they are more expensive, eat more power , are harder to make, and can't compete with LCDs in price.
Real video buffs still prefer Plasma for its true blacks and great refresh rates.
I'm not gonna let this get into a TV debate but it's well known videophiles and avid cinema/sports watchers will always choose a plasma TV over an LCD because of the purer blacks and insanely faster pixel response (no ghosting like an LCD/LED). The mere fact that LCD/LED TVs even have to QUOTE a pixel response time indicates an inferiority.
And this also carries through to phones. If you don't believe me, try it. Pick up any HTC phone and compare it to any Galaxy phone. Go to a black menu with white text... perhaps the settings menu and scroll up and down. You'll notice MASSIVE text ghosting on the HTC LCD screens but none on the SAMOLED screen. Please, don't come back claiming things you haven't tested yourself with no facts to back it up.
Pagnell said:
What, because you prefer an inferior picture quality? There is a reason the big manufacturers are phasing out plasma.
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kreoXDA said:
They are phasing out plasmas because they are more expensive, eat more power , are harder to make, and can't compete with LCDs in price.
Real video buffs still prefer Plasma for its true blacks and great refresh rates.
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Real buffs prefer high quality LED panels, plasma simply can't compete with the definition even if fast moving imagery is sometimes better. And I know this as someone who has owned high quality sets of every type.
Plasma's days were numbered as soon as it's monopoly on extra large panels ceased to exist thanks to LCD and then LED technology allowing 42" and above panels to be financially and technically viable with no loss of quality.
Still, we can agree to differ on all that if you wish.
dinan said:
And this also carries through to phones. If you don't believe me, try it. Pick up any HTC phone and compare it to any Galaxy phone. Go to a black menu with white text... perhaps the settings menu and scroll up and down. You'll notice MASSIVE text ghosting on the HTC LCD screens but none on the SAMOLED screen. Please, don't come back claiming things you haven't tested yourself with no facts to back it up.
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I fail to see where the comparison between SAMOLED and LCD is relevant to a comparison between LCD/LED and plasma.
Oh, and I have tested myself.
What do you mean with "pure white"? To me it sounds like iphone has colder color temperature, that is not better, just different. In fact that would give less natural colors.
Try to change color temperature on your pc monitor to understand what I mean, a warm temperature of 6500K is more creamish than a cold temperature of let's say 9000K.
Pagnell said:
Real buffs prefer high quality LED panels...
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I hope you do realize LED is just another type of backlight for same LCD screen, and it not always makes that same LCD produce truer blacks, and it does not do a thing to refresh rates.
dinan said:
I'm not gonna let this get into a TV debate ...
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What he said. I am done.
kreoXDA said:
I hope you do realize LED is just another type of backlight for same LCD screen, and it not always makes that same LCD produce truer blacks, and it does not do a thing to refresh rates.
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Obviously, I'm well aware of the technicalities of all current TV technology or I wouldn't be entering a debate about it.
Anyway, agree to differ and move on, as said derailing this thread is pointless.
Ask him to play a flash video from the browser And it is true the iphone's display is fairly impressive but I prefer the bright colors, larger size, and better power consumption of the SAMOLED+
Are you aware that the GS2 screen has 2 different brightness settings? It has the normal brightness, but lower down the menu it has a setting 'Auto adjust screen power' This actually dulls whites when there is a lot of white on the screen to reduce power use. If you untick it the screen is a lot more pure white.
Oh and on the subject of TV screens plasmas are getting a boost from 3D. 3D plasmas are much better than LED/LCD because of their reaction times. Much much less ghosting and as a result deeper 3D effect. A full HD plasma is still the best screen there is right now. Much less harsh than an LCD, better blacks, more realistic colours and less intense whites.
Dannyboyni said:
He was saying to me, "oh your screen tech hasn't evolved yet, you cant display proper white", haha, "my text is so much sharper than yours".
It was true about the text, my heart sank when I compared BBC homepage in portrait mode. His text looked MUCH sharper than mines. But then he has got a much higher resolution.
I really did feel humiliated, I just want nice pure white like the iphone4 has. I know I don't have a backlight.
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Click to collapse
Who cares about which screen displaying bbc has better white. This baby has everything, 1080p, bluetooth 3.0, wireless n, hspa+, dual core, android (!), better battery and I think the samoled+ can display colours much better. Also no gay itunes and you do not need to jailbreak your iPhone (which makes the iPhone instable and ****) to just get freedom
Edit: forget about these things
4.3" screen, 9mm thick, 116g, micro sd slot and more.. seriously that phone rapes the iPhone
Dannyboyni said:
He was saying to me, "oh your screen tech hasn't evolved yet, you cant display proper white", haha, "my text is so much sharper than yours".
It was true about the text, my heart sank when I compared BBC homepage in portrait mode. His text looked MUCH sharper than mines. But then he has got a much higher resolution.
I really did feel humiliated, I just want nice pure white like the iphone4 has. I know I don't have a backlight.
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Click to collapse
funny that you fall for that
put his iphone in the sun and say "whats white good for if you can't see anything?"
they're different techs. besides, true white is subjective. then theres like 150 other reasons why the SGS2 is technically better, and why the iphone5 will actually be very similar to the SGS2.
I can confirm this "cream" or, as I would put it, "yellow" tint to the screen and whites in particular. It's not right - I consider it a fault. My old (now current) SGS has the most perfect, even whites I've ever seen on a phone - even beating thr iPhone 4 in my opinion.
The SGSII is horribly bad quality as far as I'm concerned. I see nothing in SAMOLED+ that improved over SAMOLED. It's actually more grainy, too saturated, viewing angles - bizarrely are off, and blurs slightly when scrolling. What the hell is up with Samsung?
Does anyone know if Motorola plan on releasing something to change the gamma/saturation/contrast on the Xoom? I love everything about it and own one, except for the fact everything looks washed out. I assume this would be a easy fix for someone to implement something similar to a monitor where you can pick the color temp of the device 5700k 9700k ect.
This is becomming a deal breaker to me as I watch a lot of videos and the colors look horrible.
It is definitely on the cool side, but far from horrible. With all the customization offered by android you would think screen preferences would be available.
I use an app called Color Filter Settings".
I measured my WiFi-only XOOM with a GretagMacbeth Eye One Colorimeter, and its color performance and gamma curves were actually pretty stellar. I also used these test images to visually inspect the picture. Using the LCD test images, the only faults I could find are the less than perfect viewing angles and (very) slow pixel response times typical of VA panels.
For reference, I am a photographer and have several D6500K calibrated monitors (2x Dell 2408 WFP (b) and 1x Dell FPW 2405).
willverduzco said:
I measured my WiFi-only XOOM with a GretagMacbeth Eye One Colorimeter, and its color performance and gamma curves were actually pretty stellar. I also used these test images to visually inspect the picture. Using the LCD test images, the only faults I could find are the less than perfect viewing angles and (very) slow pixel response times typical of VA panels.
For reference, I am a photographer and have several D6500K calibrated monitors (2x Dell 2408 WFP (b) and 1x Dell FPW 2405).
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yeah, just eyeballing it and i thought the xoom was pretty good. it hold shadows well, but washes out in the highlights. the transformer is waaaay too cool. some whites and light blues come out looking purple. it doesn't hold shadows as well but highlights are better.
to me a warmer color looks more natural.
i do image editing/color matching in print.
The Xoom's screen is sub-par. Why do people on this forum alway's try to make someone who draw's a problem about the Xoom feel like they are less intelligent? Every intelligent person know's the Xoom's screen is washed out... How about reading the reviews ? One of the only negative's about the Xoom is it's screen and video capabilities. As why this thing barely sells.
Put it next to the iPad2 or Playbook and see how crappy the Xoom's screen is. No need to do "specials tests" blah blah it's easy to see. It's a BIG difference. What you expect tho ? The Xoom has alot more going for it so i'm not surprised they didn't get the best panel.
LONG LIVE THE XOOM THO !!
jamaicansolja said:
The Xoom's screen is sub-par. Why do people on this forum alway's try to make someone who draw's a problem about the Xoom feel like they are less intelligent? Every intelligent person know's the Xoom's screen is washed out... How about reading the reviews ? One of the only negative's about the Xoom is it's screen and video capabilities. As why this thing barely sells.
Put it next to the iPad2 or Playbook and see how crappy the Xoom's screen is. No need to do "specials tests" blah blah it's easy to see. It's a BIG difference. What you expect tho ? The Xoom has alot more going for it so i'm not surprised they didn't get the best panel.
LONG LIVE THE XOOM THO !!
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Not quite... The reason other displays look "better" to your eyes is that they are calibrated to look appealing rather than accurate.
Do yourself a favor and take a look at a Motorola Droid. Now look at a Samsung Nexus S. Your tastes will probably favor the Nexus S's screen. However, I would far prefer the screen on the Droid, as it is much more accurate and better calibrated.
There's no right or wrong screen here, as it's all user preference. The Droid, like the XOOM, has an extremely well calibrated, accurate screen. They aren't shockingly vibrant nor does they have incredibly high contrast. However, if they were incredibly vibrant and had really high contrast, other users (such as myself) would call the image gaudy.
Bottom line is that if the XOOM looks wrong to you, you're not used to looking at well calibrated screens.
(Note: I'm only speaking from my own personal WiFi-only XOOM. I am not aware of how much variability there is screen-to-screen on XOOMs.)
madsquabbles said:
yeah, just eyeballing it and i thought the xoom was pretty good. it hold shadows well, but washes out in the highlights. the transformer is waaaay too cool. some whites and light blues come out looking purple. it doesn't hold shadows as well but highlights are better.
to me a warmer color looks more natural.
i do image editing/color matching in print.
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Click to collapse
Hmm... That's strange. If you click the LCD Image tests I have linked earlier, specifically the white saturation, how does your XOOM do? Mine reveals 254 as well as any of my calibrated monitors. I'm wondering if this means that there is a good deal of screen variability.
willverduzco said:
Not quite... The reason other displays look "better" to your eyes is that they are calibrated to look appealing rather than accurate.
Do yourself a favor and take a look at a Motorola Droid. Now look at a Samsung Nexus S. Your tastes will probably favor the Nexus S's screen. However, I would far prefer the screen on the Droid, as it is much more accurate and better calibrated.
There's no right or wrong screen here, as it's all user preference. The Droid, like the XOOM, has an extremely well calibrated, accurate screen. They aren't shockingly vibrant nor does they have incredibly high contrast. However, if they were incredibly vibrant and had really high contrast, other users (such as myself) would call the image gaudy.
Bottom line is that if the XOOM looks wrong to you, you're not used to looking at well calibrated screens.
(Note: I'm only speaking from my own personal WiFi-only XOOM. I am not aware of how much variability there is screen-to-screen on XOOMs.)
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I thought the LCD is AUO or SHP also matters. Mine is SHP which stands for "Sharp", problem is potential light leak. Correct me if I am wrong though.
Also, I hand my left hand carring ipad 2 and right hand carring Xoom (because right hand is my stronger hand) last weekend,
Screen-wise, if you turn xoom brightness higher, those two screens looks same to me.
Btw, ipad 2 IPS screens also has infinite finger-prints too...
Only challenge appeared to me when I put these two head-to-head compare, was apps.
We definitely need more sexy slick powerful Honeycomb apps!
jiwengang said:
I thought the LCD is AUO or SHP also matters. Mine is SHP which stands for "Sharp", problem is potential light leak. Correct me if I am wrong though.
Also, I hand my left hand carring ipad 2 and right hand carring Xoom (because right hand is my stronger hand) last weekend,
Screen-wise, if you turn xoom brightness higher, those two screens looks same to me.
Btw, ipad 2 IPS screens also has infinite finger-prints too...
Only challenge appeared to me when I put these two head-to-head compare, was apps.
We definitely need more sexy slick powerful Honeycomb apps!
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Click to collapse
Ah! I had forgotten about the two different screens. For reference, I have the AU Optronics screen.
To the Community:
I just yesterday picked this puppy up at BB and, quite honestly, am very disappointed in the display, specifically the hue. All the yellows are washed out -- WTF???!!
Resolution is awesome but the white background when browsing looks like I'm looking at it under old-style fluorescent lighting -- YUCK!
I've played with all the Settings > Display > Screen mode modes and there's barely a change when going from one to another.
Is this correctible? Is it a TouchWiz thing? Will a different ROM help?
(FWIW -- I'm upgrading from a Xoom running Eos ROMs and other than the resolution, it was gorgeous. The Xoom was a great device: heavy, granted, but the bezel width really did set the standard that tablet manufacturers seem to be migrating towards.)
PLEASE TELL ME THERE'S A SOLUTION!!! THE COLOR RENDITION IS SO UNPALATABLE I VERY WELL MIGHT RETURN IT AFTER LUSTING AFTER IT FOR MONTHS!
Thanks.
Sounds like a hardware problem. I don't see how Touchwiz (or any ROM) could be responsible for that. Better have it exchanged.
Sounds like you're using reading mode
Sent from my SM-P600 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Color accuracy is pretty decent on the Note 10.1’s display. As always I’m reporting color data using Samsung’s Movie mode, which remains the most accurate setting of those offered. Grayscale performance is excellent, but our GMB and saturations tests put the Note 10.1 on par with the original Nexus 7. It’s definitely a better calibrated display than any other Samsung Galaxy Note tablet we’ve reviewed. Not quite on par with the new Nexus 7, but getting very close.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7378/samsung-galaxy-note-101-2014-edition-review/3
My (AMOLED) N3 displaying the same yellow background as my N10.1-14...
My "whites"...
The screen on this amazing and nothing short of that.
You must have a bad tablet...
My screen is great.
I have minor light bleed on bottom edge but thats not bothersome and barely noticeable.
Never had any problems with color rendition. Not to the extent you said it sounds like. Its been pretty natural looking for me.
EDIT: Removed link, its posted two above this...
I dont know what these numbers mean but here is a comparison against a crapple ipad: http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/Samsung-Galaxy-Note-10.1-2014-vs-Apple-iPad-4_id3445
Don't get me wrong, I like the screen a lot. But it is not perfect. I think the pentile design shows when certain colors are next to each other (producing less than perfect transition from one color to another).
whatllitbenext said:
To the Community:
I just yesterday picked this puppy up at BB and, quite honestly, am very disappointed in the display, specifically the hue. All the yellows are washed out -- WTF???!!
Resolution is awesome but the white background when browsing looks like I'm looking at it under old-style fluorescent lighting -- YUCK!
I've played with all the Settings > Display > Screen mode modes and there's barely a change when going from one to another.
Is this correctible? Is it a TouchWiz thing? Will a different ROM help?
(FWIW -- I'm upgrading from a Xoom running Eos ROMs and other than the resolution, it was gorgeous. The Xoom was a great device: heavy, granted, but the bezel width really did set the standard that tablet manufacturers seem to be migrating towards.)
PLEASE TELL ME THERE'S A SOLUTION!!! THE COLOR RENDITION IS SO UNPALATABLE I VERY WELL MIGHT RETURN IT AFTER LUSTING AFTER IT FOR MONTHS!
Thanks.
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Was it exactly the same when you first turned it on or did it get the yellow cast after some use?
kkretch said:
Was it exactly the same when you first turned it on or did it get the yellow cast after some use?
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No, there's no yellow cast: rather, the yellow's are washed out and not at all vibrant. White backgrounds have a blue-ish gray-ish tone and the only analogy I can muster is that it's like the color temperature is "cool," as opposed to "warm." Canary yellows come out looking dull gold; skin tones are very off-putting and for a top-dollar device, it's really not pleasant.
Side-by-side with my GN2, the colors are much truer on my GN2, hands down.
@BarryH_GEG -- thanks for the useful post; I am using movie mode.
@bootx1 -- thank you, too, but I'm not using reading mode.
Here are some screenshots from today's XDA main page.
1st photo is from Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 ed., second is Galaxy Note 2; third is a side-by-side with the Galaxy Note 2 on the left (the dude's skin is a little reddish on the left but it's not bad -- the skin tone on the right is actually much worse).
WTF????
Thanks.
whatllitbenext said:
Thanks for the useful post; I am using movie mode.
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I leave both my N3 and N10.1-14 on Adapt Display. On the N3 it's the only way to achieve maximum brightness in bright conditions; like an additional 150 nits. I'm not sure if the N10.1-14's Adapt Display works the same way. I have to confess, while Movie Mode may be more accurate I've come to like overly saturated colors on my mobile devices.
whatllitbenext said:
No, there's no yellow cast: rather, the yellow's are washed out and not at all vibrant. White backgrounds have a blue-ish gray-ish tone and the only analogy I can muster is that it's like the color temperature is "cool," as opposed to "warm." Canary yellows come out looking dull gold; skin tones are very off-putting and for a top-dollar device, it's really not pleasant.
Side-by-side with my GN2, the colors are much truer on my GN2, hands down.
@BarryH_GEG -- thanks for the useful post; I am using movie mode.
@bootx1 -- thank you, too, but I'm not using reading mode.
Here are some screenshots from today's XDA main page.
1st photo is from Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 ed., second is Galaxy Note 2; third is a side-by-side with the Galaxy Note 2 on the left (the dude's skin is a little reddish on the left but it's not bad -- the skin tone on the right is actually much worse).
WTF????
Thanks.
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To me......... In your (photo 3) side by side photo's I think the device on the left is to red and has to much color saturation the tablet looks good to me in that photo....
There is at lease 2 places in the control panel of the P-600 to adjust color, have you seen them?
If you not happy with the way it looks and you can exchange it you should. If you don't you will always have this thought in the back of your mind.
.
as another user said, it sounds like reading mode is turned on make sure it's off. It probably unlikely that this is the problem though since the the only app that defaults with reading mode on is play books.
Thank you for your responses.
I'm not quite sure how to say this without sounding impolite but several of you seem not to have read my posts completely, so please allow me to start over.
My yellows are very washed out: what ought to be bright canary yellows are dull gold. For example: the yellow in the Chrome logo is what I define as "yellow." On the GM10.1, 2014 Ed. it appears gold and dull.
Skin tones are wan and blue-ish.
White web page areas are gray-blue-ish.
Overall color temperature is "cool."
Reading mode does warm things up a bit...but still, I can't get any combination of settings where yellows "pop".
Settings > Device > Display > Screen mode is set to "movie" and that barely affects the vibrancy of the yellows; in fact there is no real difference between all four of the options.
IN SUM: COLOR RENDITION SUCKS.
Take it back to Best Buy?
(I s'pose I just answered my question...)
Thanks in advance.
The subpixel arrangement creates a dot effect more seen in print when looking through a magnifying glass. While not overly distracting, I do notice it at times. My biggest complaint is the blueish hue shift in darker tones when putting the display at an angle. Is this a TN panel ? I've always had OLED and my Oppo Find 5 was the first smartphone I've owned that didn't have a OLED screen. Still, the find 5 screen was MUCH better than the note 10.1 2014. Especially the black levels are kinda disappointing. I think the screen is WAY overrated in reviews. I primarily use the note in darker indoor areas so I have no use for the extra brightness delivered by the white subpixel.
I still think it's a great device tough, and for the price there is nothing like it. I would like to see some CM and Omni builds for it though which retain the wacom S pen "drivers". I don't care for the samsung features, I just want to use Autodesk Sketchbook.
Overall, I'm really happy with my display. My one complaint is that viewing angles seem to be a little off.
jankko said:
Don't get me wrong, I like the screen a lot. But it is not perfect. I think the pentile design shows when certain colors are next to each other (producing less than perfect transition from one color to another).
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What I know is that this device comes with LCD display. Not amoled. So there.is not pentile design. Because it is not amoled. The color would not look as vivid as amoled, yellow will look like a bit washout because of the backlight compared to amoled
Sent from my SM-P605 using xda app-developers app
Check this link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_matrix_family
As you can see, Note 10.1 2014 edition is pentile. You can also see this when looking at the screen. Transitions between some colors are a bit blurry.
When talking about display performance there's the objective and subjective. GSMArena, AnandTech, and NoteBookCheck DE all run an extensive battery of standardized tests on all the devices they review. All praise the N10.1-14's display; especially compared to previous Samsung LCD displays.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_101_2014-review-1003p2.php
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7378/samsung-galaxy-note-101-2014-edition-review/3
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-10-1-2014-Edition-Tablet.105624.0.html
Sorry folks, you can't argue with the objective.
As for the subjective, assuming those not digging the display don't have a h/w issue, to each their own. The N5's display objectively produces very accurate colors. Those I've seen look washed out and dull. OP's not happy with the coolness of his display. I personally detest warm displays. You can't argue the subjective because it's both personal and opinion.
BarryH_GEG said:
When talking about display performance there's the objective and subjective. GSMArena, AnandTech, and NoteBookCheck DE all run an extensive battery of standardized tests on all the devices they review. All praise the N10.1-14's display; especially compared to previous Samsung LCD displays.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_101_2014-review-1003p2.php
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7378/samsung-galaxy-note-101-2014-edition-review/3
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-10-1-2014-Edition-Tablet.105624.0.html
Sorry folks, you can't argue with the objective.
As for the subjective, assuming those not digging the display don't have a h/w issue, to each their own. The N5's display objectively produces very accurate colors. Those I've seen look washed out and dull. OP's not happy with the coolness of his display. I personally detest warm displays. You can't argue the subjective because it's both personal and opinion.
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Thanks for that useful post -- the gsmarena and anandtech links are especially informative.
And my fears were confirmed: the display is just kind of average...objectively excellent, but comparatively average.
whatllitbenext said:
Thanks for that useful post -- the gsmarena and anandtech links are especially informative.
And my fears were confirmed: the display is just kind of average...objectively excellent, but comparatively average.
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Think average is a silly comment. I prefer the display to the ipad air. Sometimes wish the whites were slightly better. But I would like to see anyone who has a better screen on an Android 10 inch tablet
Sent from my SM-P600 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I'm about done with AMOLED panels and I'm about done with the S7 because of it. Ever since phones went quad HD (Turbo, S6, Nexus 6, Turbo 2, Note 5, 6P, S7, etc), this has been a problem, and unfortunately it still seems to exist on the S7. This is my second one - the first one had it in a different area on the screen and it was even worse. It's the pink fade on light or white backgrounds. Once you see it you can't unsee it. I'm sure some will come in here and say they can't see it. I noticed it looks all white at the right angle so if you're not seeing it, you might move your screen a bit. Also, the first image (the horizontal one) shows it the most b/c it has the subtle camera lines which make the fade even more obvious. Not sure if there's a point to this except to vent a bit and, I guess, see if anybody else has had this issue on theirs. Given that the screen is supposed to be one of the main selling points of this device, it's hard to keep it when I see the fade every time a lighter background comes up...
Honestly, I don't really see one benefit to having an AMOLED panel any more - even the highest quality ones eventually deal with burn-in, the battery life is not any better, and they have inconsistencies which are apparently just par for the course. #frustrated
Hmm my S7 doesn't have this effect at all angles and I don't think this is something with AMOLED displays. I think it's the new gorilla glass and the refractive properties of it. At some angles it looks blue and others pink but looking straight at the phone I don't see any weird hue just perfect white. The colours on the S7 display are the best for an AMOLED screen so far and I can say that since I work in a paint store and colour matching is my life.
Tw1tchy said:
Hmm my S7 doesn't have this effect at all angles and I don't think this is something with AMOLED displays. I think it's the new gorilla glass and the refractive properties of it. At some angles it looks blue and others pink but looking straight at the phone I don't see any weird hue just perfect white. The colours on the S7 display are the best for an AMOLED screen so far and I can say that since I work in a paint store and colour matching is my life.
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I know what you're referring to with the refractive properties on Gorilla Glass 4 and this definitely isn't that. I'm even able to see the inconsistencies on darker backgrounds as well. I've uploaded two more photos, attached to this post. That's a solid dark grayish/blue background.
Pick your poison. With AMOLED you're going to get higher brightness, contrast and color saturation, but it will shift colors on whites with various viewing angles. With LCD you'll get colors that are less saturated but more stable and no true blacks (thus worse contrast), and it's brightness, contrast and saturation will all degrade at higher viewing angles.
Source: gizmag.com
AMOLED screens are also thinner and consume less energy.
CafeKampuchia said:
Pick your poison. With AMOLED you're going to get higher brightness, contrast and color saturation, but it will shift colors on whites with various viewing angles. With LCD you'll get colors that are less saturated but more stable and no true blacks (thus worse contrast), and it's brightness, contrast and saturation will all degrade at higher viewing angles.
AMOLED screens are also thinner and consume less energy.
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I know, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Though I don't think we're talking about just color shifting at various viewing angles. This fade (and prior fades) appears to be "burned" in to the screen itself, and while differing angles help a bit, it doesn't change the problem.
jntdroid said:
I know, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Though I don't think we're talking about just color shifting at various viewing angles. This fade (and prior fades) appears to be "burned" in to the screen itself, and while differing angles help a bit, it doesn't change the problem.
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And it looks even worse when you compare it with your friend's perfectly white iPhone screen..
But the better sunlight legibility and perfect blacks appear as a fair trade in for me..
Fullmetal Jun said:
And it looks even worse when you compare it with your friend's perfectly white iPhone screen..
But the better sunlight legibility and perfect blacks appear as a fair trade in for me..
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I don't know - obviously that's subjective, but even my iPhone 5S is still just as readable in sunlight, and having inconsistencies in the screen appearance on a $700 device, to me anyway, is hard to justify for the sake of pure blacks.
Many will disagree, but this is why I still think the iPhone 6 Plus has the best display. I own an S7 Edge and while my screen colors are even with no pink tint, the entire display does have a bit of a green tint to the whites and I can occasionally make out horizontal lines where the brightness isn't perfectly even on grays and whites, especially noticeable when scrolling. My S7 Edge is about as good as I've seen any QHD AMOLED display, certainly much better than any of the S6s I owned, but it's still not perfect, and I would still prefer the display from the iPhone 6 Plus. To me, good, even, uniform whites are more important than perfect blacks because most of the things I do on my phone involve white backgrounds (web pages especially).
gtg465x said:
Many will disagree, but this is why I still think the iPhone 6 Plus has the best display. I own an S7 Edge and while my screen colors are even with no pink tint, the entire display does have a bit of a green tint to the whites and I can occasionally make out horizontal lines where the brightness isn't perfectly even on grays and whites, especially noticeable when scrolling. My S7 Edge is about as good as I've seen any QHD AMOLED display, certainly much better than any of the S6s I owned, but it's still not perfect, and I would still prefer the display from the iPhone 6 Plus. To me, good, even, uniform whites are more important than perfect blacks because most of the things I do on my phone involve white backgrounds (web pages especially).
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One thing I would like to point out that you are completely missing is the contrast, not only black-white but the colour contrast! This is another area where S7 screen is clearly superior than 6s plus or any other mobile lcd. You can verify that by viewing a colorful wallpaper side by side on both the screens. Another thing is colour accuracy and colour gamut in which S7 screen again comes on top.
Both types of screens obviously have their pros and cons but SAMOLED screens arguably do have more pros over lcds than cons imho!
gtg465x said:
To me, good, even, uniform whites are more important than perfect blacks because most of the things I do on my phone involve white backgrounds (web pages especially).
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Master gtg! Thanks for the goodies of the Infuse 4G..
gtg465x said:
To me, good, even, uniform whites are more important than perfect blacks because most of the things I do on my phone involve white backgrounds (web pages especially).
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Agree 100%. And at least the blacks on LCD's are consistent. They might not be "pure", but they are consistent unlike the whites in AMOLED.
Dpk1 said:
One thing I would like to point out that you are completely missing is the contrast, not only black-white but the colour contrast! This is another area where S7 screen is clearly superior than 6s plus or any other mobile lcd. You can verify that by viewing a colorful wallpaper side by side on both the screens. Another thing is colour accuracy and colour gamut in which S7 screen again comes on top.
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You call it superior, I call it over-saturated (), even still on the latest and greatest. Don't get me wrong, they look nice and my eyes get used to it after awhile, but no matter what I do the S7's screen (and S6's, and Turbo's, etc.) feels "cartoonish" to me when navigating through the UI. Every time I go back to LCD from AMOLED my eyes feel a small sense of relief - almost like the contrast was too much. I know that's not the norm, so fortunately we have choices. But I love everything about the S7 except, ironically, its screen because of these inconsistencies. I simply shouldn't be seeing a fade from white to pinkish grey on an all-white background on a 2016 flagship.
Lol.. it would be a shame then if apple goes with amoled displays in future ?! Anyway you seem very clear about your preference of the display type so I'm not going to contest that, but I would say that lcd displays are not free from fault like amoleds and they do have issues like backlight bleeding, abnormal tints, non-uniformity issues, dead / stuck pixels etc.
BTW, I'm not here to preach about amoled or lcds, it's only my own experience with both the display types in the past. My experiences might vary from yours but I've always had them better with samoled screens than lcds.
I just bought a s7 flat 2 weeks ago and its my first AMOLED phone., i dont have any kind of color uniformity but i can see the strong blue tint in white when i look at the screen from an angle, and its really distracting me too much. I dont know if i go to warranty and they can fix it.
OFFlee said:
I just bought a s7 flat 2 weeks ago and its my first AMOLED phone., i dont have any kind of color uniformity but i can see the strong blue tint in white when i look at the screen from an angle, and its really distracting me too much. I dont know if i go to warranty and they can fix it.
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No, as that is the nature of the technology. When viewed at an angle, LCDs maintain color uniformity but lose saturation, brightness and contrast. AMOLEDs shift to blue green but maintain saturation, brightness and contrast. Refer to my post above (#4) and check out the picture.
CafeKampuchia said:
No, as that is the nature of the technology. When viewed at an angle, LCDs maintain color uniformity but lose saturation, brightness and contrast. AMOLEDs shift to blue green but maintain saturation, brightness and contrast. Refer to my post above (#4) and check out the picture.
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I see it, and i aggree with you but, color shift is more disturbing then losing brightness. Its not affecting when using phone most times but whenever i use my phone with one hand and try to open notifications, blue tint is appearing and i really hate it. Actually iam in love with blacks of amoled screen, but this thing is driving me crazy. Maybe i am just too sensitive this color changes.
And btw, my father have a Galaxy A3, and it has exactly same blue tint on his phone too. I Think samsung should something to fix it for next Galaxy S. Its really annoying.
OFFlee said:
And btw, my father have a Galaxy A3, and it has exactly same blue tint on his phone too. I Think samsung should something to fix it for next Galaxy S. Its really annoying.
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It has to do with the varying luminescence and longevity of the various colored pixels. AMOLEDs have been like that since the beginning and it won't be fixed by the next generation of devices. Once you get in the habit of keeping the phone perpendicular to your eyes, it's not so bothersome. Then you go back to an LCD and see that it looks so flat and dim and decide it's totally worth it.
Dpk1 said:
Lol.. it would be a shame then if apple goes with amoled displays in future ��! Anyway you seem very clear about your preference of the display type so I'm not going to contest that, but I would say that lcd displays are not free from fault like amoleds and they do have issues like backlight bleeding, abnormal tints, non-uniformity issues, dead / stuck pixels etc.
BTW, I'm not here to preach about amoled or lcds, it's only my own experience with both the display types in the past. My experiences might vary from yours but I've always had them better with samoled screens than lcds.
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Sorry, didn't mean to sound so dogmatic. I really don't dislike AMOLEDs, the imperfections just frustrate me on such a high end device. You're exactly right that LCD's can also have flaws, but I see them much less than I see them in AMOLED panels - which is just inherent to the two different types of technology and how well the OEMs implement them. I was able to exchange the one in the photos of this thread for a new one (two guys at the store agreed it was an issue) and while the new one isn't perfect, it's MUCH better to where it's not all I see now.
CafeKampuchia said:
Then you go back to an LCD and see that it looks so flat and dim and decide it's totally worth it.
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There is truth in this statement. Despite my overall preference for LCD, when I use AMOLED for a period of time and go back, it's a two-fold reaction... one reaction is slight relief on my eyes, but the other reaction is getting used to the "dullness" - though I find I get used to that much faster than I get used to the high contrast when going from LCD to AMOLED. I would imagine if I stuck to a phone for more than a few months and that phone was AMOLED, the change back to LCD would be even more difficult.
if you have polarized sunglasses then lcd display is a curse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5snWrD6txI
Disappointed this is still an issue with AMOLED screens, this frustrated me to no end on my Galaxy S2 where the screen would shift yellow from one end to the other. Glad you posted this thread as it's not a widely addressed issue, guess I'm going with HTC 10.
I've never noticed this on any of my AMOLED displays. Nor have I noticed any burn in, and I'm not sure what you mean by "other inconsistencies," but if you mean sample to sample variation that affects LCD panels, too. And if you don't like the high contrast, that's adjustable in Display settings.
What I have noticed is vibrant color and ease of using in daylight that no LCD panel can match. Or even come close to. I guess I'm done with LCDs.