Related
http://m.examiner.com/exSanFrancisco/pm_75809/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=WzckuLg6
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I can accept that story or some other form it. I mean, it is out in Europe and has been for some time. And they have been dropping new phones with 2.2 for a while now. Why wouldn't these A-holes release it in the States. Can't imagine they have been testing the firmware for the past 7 months.
I have the epic and our update got delayed too. I knew it had something to do some bs like this but why would they delay the epic update because it already has sprint 4g in it. They could be upgrading their wimax to lte or coming out with the bidder screen model with the super amoled plus screen and they will launch that with froyo and leave ours in the dust. I guess we will find out on the 3rd of feb at sprints special event
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I thought maybe Samsung was going to just skip 2.2 and release a 2.3 update because Samsung is already running 2.3 on their Nexus S.
I was actually going to buy an Epic tomorrow.
But, if this article is true, I am going to "devalue" Samsung and not buy their product.
[email protected] them if they are making existing customers suffer because of their greed.
Honestly, this is probably true. I know this sucks, but companies like this value their earnings more than their customers. Those of us who have been eagerly awaiting Froyo are in the minority, and they know that most of the people who own these devices couldn't care less about it.
This will probably be the last Samsung phone that I will ever buy, I'd rather give my money to a company which values their customers and provides customers with timely information regarding updates and the like.
This reminds me of the initial warnings about previous samsung devices and the lack of updates when the epic first came out. Although this is the best sprint phone I have owned to date I still wonder if I should have taken those warnings a little more seriously!
Yes I heard complaints in the past about Samsung's poor phone support but I still got the Epic. Mostly because my old phone (HTC Touch) died and it was going to cost $100 for a replacement (thanks lame Sprint insurance). So I just decided to get a new phone and compared to the Evo, the Epic seemed like the much better option. After experiencing Samsung's greed and lack of support for their existing products, I'm going back to HTC next go round.
Let's kill!
Agree. This most likely would've been the last Samsung phone I bought. This pretty much seals the deal.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
For my next phone I'm going to do exactly what I did with this phone. Find out what the best phone is.. check the phones out.. and go with the one that is the best. Right now, even after the Evo 4G Shift was released, the Epic and other Galaxy S phones are still the best phone. I have friends with the Evo, Droid X, MyTouch.. and I can safely say that I have the best phone. Those phones have 2.2, but I wouldn't THINK about switching to them. Do I want 2.2? Of course. I have it now thanks to custom roms but of course it kinda aggravates me that there is no official release of 2.2 yet. But that is ok. If I had a choice between a laptop with a Intel i3 running Windows 7 and a Intel i7 running Windows Vista (or even XP), I would take the i7.
In my opinion, company tactics will forever aggravate us users. Throwing around other company names like HTC as the company that will be this "knight in shining armor" will only dissappoint you in the future. I have had 3 HTC phones previously and without a doubt, I can say that they are definitely not beyond screwing their customers over. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is right, but I'm saying that it is not uncommon. The day that these companies become non-profit organizations is the day you will see them put customers first.. I'm not holding my breath.
HeXeD said:
For my next phone I'm going to do exactly what I did with this phone. Find out what the best phone is.. check the phones out.. and go with the one that is the best. Right now, even after the Evo 4G Shift was released, the Epic and other Galaxy S phones are still the best phone. I have friends with the Evo, Droid X, MyTouch.. and I can safely say that I have the best phone. Those phones have 2.2, but I wouldn't THINK about switching to them. Do I want 2.2? Of course. I have it now thanks to custom roms but of course it kinda aggravates me that there is no official release of 2.2 yet. But that is ok. If I had a choice between a laptop with a Intel i3 running Windows 7 and a Intel i7 running Windows Vista (or even XP), I would take the i7.
In my opinion, company tactics will forever aggravate us users. Throwing around other company names like HTC as the company that will be this "knight in shining armor" will only dissappoint you in the future. I have had 3 HTC phones previously and without a doubt, I can say that they are definitely not beyond screwing their customers over. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is right, but I'm saying that it is not uncommon. The day that these companies become non-profit organizations is the day you will see them put customers first.. I'm not holding my breath.
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I couldn't have said this better. I had debated typing this up earlier but you beat me to it. Great minds think alike
JD
As Lee Corso would say, 'not so fast my friend.' Before I scooped my Epic, I had the HTC Touch (the original way old Vogue) and the ppc6700 (the silver brick) before that. I never had any issues with software other than crappy windows mobile but when it came to updates and/or support, I was happy. Hardware was on point as well. Samsung Galaxy has been a major disappointment for me having owner various Samsung products and knowing that their hardware is excellent. Still think the Epic is terrific. Just disappointed at all the troubles that customers have experienced across the entire Galaxy lineup.
JudasD said:
I couldn't have said this better. I had debated typing this up earlier but you beat me to it. Great minds think alike
JD
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This page has more detailed information on the T-Mobile leaked rumor:
...Trust me when I tell you, we had an update for the original G1, and HTC begged us not to. In 75% of the cases known to me in my [time] here and my [time] dealing with Android I will say that honestly most upgrade hold offs were the Manufacturer and NOT us as some believe. But we catch the flack.
I am tired. [redacted] I am up to here with Samsung. They pulled the same thing with the Behold 2 that I MYSELF had to clean up and caught wind over. The update to 2.1 update 1 is existant...
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If true, this shows how completely and utterly out of touch Samsung's executives are with reality.
First of all, the whole theory that a 2.2-Vibrant(non-4G) would "devalue" the 4G. EVEN IF the only difference between the old and new Vibrant were the front camera and 4G, how many users likely to notice or care about whether or not the current Vibrant has 2.2 would *honestly* choose to buy the old model instead of the new one, even if it were a $50 difference between the two? People who buy $50 phones or wait months to get an old model on closeout for "free" with 2-year contract aren't the people who buy phones like the Epic, Vibrant, and the rest of the Galaxy S family. People in "our" category might ******* about a $50 difference... but we'll pay it anyway, because we know that if we don't, we'll be miserable and regret it daily for the next year or two.
Ditto, for customers who already own a Vibrant. In the entire United f***ing States, there *might* be 10,000 Vibrant owners who'll dump one and buy a Vibrant4G at full retail just to get 4G and/or the front camera. And I'll bet that a hefty subset of that group are T-Mobile employees whose "full" cost (after employee discount) is roughly what the rest of us would pay for a subsidized phone with contract, anyway. Now, having satisfied that group... how many more existing Vibrant customers do they REALLY think they're going to get by withholding 2.2 from owners of older Vibrants? Especially considering the abundance of custom ROMs.
The rationale becomes even more absurd when you consider the case of withholding 2.2 from Epic4G owners. I'm sure if you combed America hard enough, you might find a few Epic4G owners who'd dump it, pay the ETF to Sprint, switch to T-Mobile, and buy a Vibrant4G... but scratch a bit deeper, and I'd bet a major body part that the overwhelming majority of THAT group consists of users who probably wanted to switch anyway, and the existence of the Vibrant4G was more of an enabling excuse and rationale than an actual *reason*.
Companies like Samsung just don't seem to "get it". Consumers might chuck a $25 mp3 player to buy a newer, cooler one in 4 months. Statistically NOBODY chucks an expensive pocket computer whose marginal replacement cost exceeds $400 for an incremental improvement 4-6 months down the line. The closest ANY phone has probably come to motivating early switching was the Evo, and that was basically because the Evo was roughly twice as good as the Hero in almost every meaningful way, and worse in basically none. Users MIGHT be induced to switch early for 10x faster data, twice the cpu speed, 50% more resolution on a screen nearly twice the size, and a lot more ram. Users are NOT going to casually switch because one has 2.2 and one is officially stuck at 2.1... they're just going to root, reflash, and promise their deity of choice that they'll never buy another Samsung phone again.
If anything, T-Mobile is the biggest loser, because if true, this means that Samsung is effectively doing its best to devalue T-Mobile's inventory of existing unsold Vibrants. Now, if T-Mobile charges $10/month more for 4G service, that might merit trying harder to induce otherwise-indifferent new purchasers to go with the 4G model instead of the old model... but if it's the same price per month for service, it's to T-Mobile's own advantage to all but encourage new customers who are indifferent between the two to go with the old one... it's one less phone for T-Mobile to write off as a loss and send to a spare parts warehouse to gather dust until it ends up in a landfill or gets dumped on a new penny-pinching customer who only cares that it's "free" with 2-year contract, and one fewer customer who'll start abusing youtube as a source of free in-car music on demand (soaking up lots of bandwidth in the process).
This is the kind of logic that leaves me wondering how some big corporations can even stay in business. I worked for one a couple of years ago where we were ordered to *immediately* dispose of a hundred or so old laptops -- at a cost of $250 apiece -- instead of keeping them piled on a few shelves in a storage room in case we came up with a good use for them someday (like using them as thin clients for call center operators... something we had, in fact, done before). The executive rationale? The accountants complained that they were "costing" us $5,000/month to store based on the square-foot value of the space they were taking up in the closet, and somebody's wet dream fantasies about the value of that space. The thing is, we were about ~15 employees in a warehouse-like facility almost a square city block in size that was 95% empty (built during the dotcom boom, then the company was stuck with it due to a glut of similar buildings nearby). So, we burned $25,000 in the name of emptying off a 4x6 foot steel shelving unit, basically to humor the delusional fantasies of a faceless borg more concerned with a checklist item than getting actual work done and bringing in revenue. Madness. Pure, faceless, bureaucratically-driven out of control insanity.
HeXeD said:
For my next phone I'm going to do exactly what I did with this phone. Find out what the best phone is.. check the phones out.. and go with the one that is the best. Right now, even after the Evo 4G Shift was released, the Epic and other Galaxy S phones are still the best phone. I have friends with the Evo, Droid X, MyTouch.. and I can safely say that I have the best phone. Those phones have 2.2, but I wouldn't THINK about switching to them. Do I want 2.2? Of course. I have it now thanks to custom roms but of course it kinda aggravates me that there is no official release of 2.2 yet. But that is ok. If I had a choice between a laptop with a Intel i3 running Windows 7 and a Intel i7 running Windows Vista (or even XP), I would take the i7.
In my opinion, company tactics will forever aggravate us users. Throwing around other company names like HTC as the company that will be this "knight in shining armor" will only dissappoint you in the future. I have had 3 HTC phones previously and without a doubt, I can say that they are definitely not beyond screwing their customers over. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is right, but I'm saying that it is not uncommon. The day that these companies become non-profit organizations is the day you will see them put customers first.. I'm not holding my breath.
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I agree with you and I really love my Epic BUT.... I can't help wondering how much better the phone would be with the upgrade.
Also Im sure this has been posted but this is an interesting read rating carriers and manufacturers on their upgrade rate.
looks to be true. This is on the front page of yahoo news.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/216716/samsung_blocking_ota_update_on_tmobile.html
Also made it to Slashdot!
http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/01/13/2334213/Is-Samsung-Blocking-Updates-To-Froyo
And PC World:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/216716/samsung_blocking_ota_update_on_tmobile.html
I have a feeling some people at Samsung are having a very bad day indeed.
Nexus S reboot problem:
Google Nexus S, google's second handset is in the limelight for wrong reasons this time. Looks like, the nexus S handsets are randomly rebooting atleast once every 48 hours, usually during a voice call! Google has officially confirmed this bug in their support forum. All the handsets that has been updated to the latest version of gingerbread (Android 2.3.1/GRH78) are affected by this bug.
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User's post from Slashdot story:
The real reason they are stonewalling on the 2.2 update for Vibrant is this: When they released the 2.2 update for the Vibrant in Canada, the update worked fine for a week or two, and then like clockwork bricked a huge percentage of the phones that updated. And when I say bricked, I'm not being liberal with that word, after a week or so running the Samsung 2.2 update, the SD card would become corrupt, and recovery mode would be unable to format it. My wife and I both have Vibrants, and it happened to them both one day apart. Samsung has been silent on the matter. Not surprising they'd avoid moving sending the 2.2 update out to US Vibrant owners, and also not surprising that they're refusing to explain why. Bell at least is fixing them, but lots of people on the XDA forum are saying their "repaired" phones are bricking again in short order.
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Samsung's official response to CNET's query about the rumor:
Samsung Mobile does not comment on rumors or speculation. With regard to the Froyo update, we recently issued the following statement: "Samsung feels it is important to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available only after we feel that we can give the millions of U.S. Galaxy S owners a simple and reliable upgrade experience. Due to the complexity and unique functionality of each Galaxy S device, we are performing additional testing and are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S. Galaxy S owners, including the Samsung Vibrant, as soon as possible.
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Just to add to this conversation --> Just got off a chat with Sprint and I kept asking them about Froyo for the Epic. Everytime I mentioned it, the Sprint rep would direct me to Samsung and it's their fault. I think they got mad that I kept asking and pushing the subject, that they said they could no longer help me on the chat and gave me Samsung's number to call.
Looking at Samsung's facebook account, there a bunch of people complaining about this issue. Hopefully all this pressure will make Samsung cave in. *crosses fingers*
I call bull****.
Having come from the Crackberry world, this sort of stuff happens all the time. A supposed "reliable source" will leak some sort of story, the fringe enthusiast sites get wind of it and generates chatter and it eventually gets picked up by a naive journalist with a lazy editor and it gets put up as "legit" news which then causes a feedback loop which causes the internet to explore.
The example that comes to mind is the OS 4.7.0.113 update for the Blackberry Storm 9530 on Verizon, a leaked OS that "reliable sources" claimed was going to be the next official update but wasn't. It made it to PC World as well:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/163056/blackberry_storm_to_get_firmware_update.html
And it was 100% bull****. So I wouldn't give this rumor much credence.
The explanation of not wanting to take the wind out of the sails of the Vibrant 4G is irrelevant to other Galaxy S models where there is no similar Osbourne effect - such as with the Epic 4G.
My guess is that the actual explanation is much more mundane. Given the problem with Froyo bricking Vibrants, I would bet dollars to donuts that Samsung got super gunshy and their slow approach to Froyo updates to smaller markets is nothing more than a widespread, low-risk beta test to make sure their code is up to snuff before risking releasing an unstable update to the larger, litigious American Galaxy S userbases.
[RANT]
Hello All,
I've been taking look at the threads here and frankly, there is way too much whining and complaining about pricing on the Xoom, and how Moto is now losing customers, and how they have ruined the product launch, blah blah blah.
The 32 GB WiFi + 3G iPad is $729 retail. Xoom is set at $799 - what do you get for an extra seventy bucks? Android HC, VZ network, Tegra 2, the ability to drop an SD card in there for loads more storage, and so on. Is that really so unreasonable? Apple has sold millions of iPads at that price point.
And so what if a new iPad (with new, even more 'magical' properties) will be released this summer, dropping the price of the first one...it's still an Apple device, meaning it runs a locked-down OS. If you love Apple and their designs, hey, more power to you, I'm not here to flame your choice. For me: no thanks.
Some have said that they have a rig at home that cost around 800 bucks and it does so much more than a tablet, so the cost for the Xoom is unjustified. Perhaps...but can you take that rig with you everywhere you go? Portability is a premium, so that comparison is an epic fail - it's apples and oranges. "Hey, my bicycle is better than your treadmill!" - huh, really?
And sure, there's a markup because it's new and it's a first, but that is true for every other new piece of tech. The first iPhone adopters paid $600 for their phones! Have we forgotten that little tidbit?
I will admit, it is disappointing that leaks indicate that the Xoom will not receive subsidized pricing through VZ (though I'd like to remind folks that, as far as I have seen, there has yet to be any official word from Big Red on that).
But seriously...if you are disappointed because the price point places this device out of your reach, too bad so sad, go flash another ROM or something, and don't fill these forums with pages of complaints. I'm definitely looking forward to the days after this device is released, so that actual Xoom users can post their reviews, questions, advice, tips, workarounds, and solutions.
[/RANT]
[FLAMING] ...no doubt it's coming.
i agree.
although I think that the attitude would be a lot different if we were all used to the non-US way of buying cellular devices.
the price is not so much an issue to me considering the hardware. I am not saying I don't have sticker shock, but the price is not the determining factor for me. if the device does everything i need it to then i will buy it. if it lacks something I need, I won't buy it.
khov07 said:
[RANT]
Hello All,
I've been taking look at the threads here and frankly, there is way too much whining and complaining about pricing on the Xoom, and how Moto is now losing customers, and how they have ruined the product launch, blah blah blah.
The 32 GB WiFi + 3G iPad is $729 retail. Xoom is set at $799 - what do you get for an extra seventy bucks? Android HC, VZ network, Tegra 2, the ability to drop an SD card in there for loads more storage, and so on. Is that really so unreasonable? Apple has sold millions of iPads at that price point.
And so what if a new iPad (with new, even more 'magical' properties) will be released this summer, dropping the price of the first one...it's still an Apple device, meaning it runs a locked-down OS. If you love Apple and their designs, hey, more power to you, I'm not here to flame your choice. For me: no thanks.
Some have said that they have a rig at home that cost around 800 bucks and it does so much more than a tablet, so the cost for the Xoom is unjustified. Perhaps...but can you take that rig with you everywhere you go? Portability is a premium, so that comparison is an epic fail - it's apples and oranges. "Hey, my bicycle is better than your treadmill!" - huh, really?
And sure, there's a markup because it's new and it's a first, but that is true for every other new piece of tech. The first iPhone adopters paid $600 for their phones! Have we forgotten that little tidbit?
I will admit, it is disappointing that leaks indicate that the Xoom will not receive subsidized pricing through VZ (though I'd like to remind folks that, as far as I have seen, there has yet to be any official word from Big Red on that).
But seriously...if you are disappointed because the price point places this device out of your reach, too bad so sad, go flash another ROM or something, and don't fill these forums with pages of complaints. I'm definitely looking forward to the days after this device is released, so that actual Xoom users can post their reviews, questions, advice, tips, workarounds, and solutions.
[/RANT]
[FLAMING] ...no doubt it's coming.
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Most are more pissed about the forced carrier activation. You add that on top of the price it truly becomes unreasonable. I was willing to pay the 800 although it would hurt but I understand. But if they force me to get something I don't want then its a no go. That's the majority of the issues.
The fuss is about being almost one hundred (!!!!) dollars more than the market leader that basically created the market.
Ignoring the ipad 2 is absolutely idiotic. Its unreleased just like the xoom. The ipad 2 will be much closer in terms of specs at the same price points as now.
The fuss is over the xoom just flat out being overpriced. Sorry, Moto is 0/2 this year so far. Lots of people let down by the atrix and xoom pricing. Just look at their Facebook or twitter. Its not an accident.
I agree with the OP for the most part.
I also agree with the second post.
I should be able to walk into a non carrier store and purchase the device without paying 20-55 extra bucks to activate it.
That said, I think the ad being spread around was either a pre print mockup or a hoax.
It has spelling mistakes so it can't be the final print version or they'll look like morons - easily fixed before print of course, we'll see.
800 for a choice piece of kit? I'll probably bite but I will wait a few days for the reviews and teardowns to happen, to make sure this is indeed the geek gadget I have been waiting for.
I think it's that there isn't a "middle ground." Sure, it's the same as a 32GB 3G iPad, but at least with the iPad you had the option of a 16GB WiFi-Only iPad, here there isn't an option, take it or leave it. I think that's the main issue. The iPad was available to different levels of consumer spending, the Xoom isn't. You just don't have the option, it's top of the line or nothing, and that's the issue.
Plus, $799 is misleading if the fine print is true. To activate WiFi you need at least a month of a data plan. So tack on $35 activation and $20 for a month of slow-ass service, and it's another $55. Plus, whatever it takes you as far as time to cancel the plan, you know Verizon isn't going to just make it a quick 30 second phone call to cancel the monthly service.
Honestly, just this data plan to enable WiFi is enough to make me say no. What the hell good is a tablet with zero internet connection. They should have given 1 month free service, not this additional $55 crap.
So yeah, true price is $855 for a tablet.
Another issue I have is the MOtorola Cliq. For a year they said they would update the OS, and it was in testing, and this and that, and then last week...Nothing. They canceled the update and gave a big "screw you" to their customers. That kind of attitude isn't really a company I wish to support. In 6 months from now, when they anounce the Xoom 2 and Honeycomb 3.5, will the Xoom get an update or will we be left high and dry? The companies track record leaves much to be desired.
I just have a feeling Xoom customers are going to get shafted by Motorola, and this WiFi data thing is just the beginning. It's making me very hesitant to pick up a Xoom.
You know that feeling you get when you're about to do something really stupid and at the moment you do it a loud "OH $HIT, BAD IDEA" resounds in your head? I get that feeling when I consider buying a Xoom.
well, I'm not too worried about the price. I doubt the price will be $800 anyway. When the ipad was announced everyone was speculating on the price between 800 - 1200, and it ended up not even being close.
I am an avid stock trader, and keep my ear to the street... Wall Street that is! I took a gander at Motorola Mobility (MMI) and their stock is down a little over 3% today on that pricing fear, so it isn't only people in our community that thinks it's a little high.
But like I said, I'm not worried about it costing $800, because in their Q4 earnings conference call they hinted at the price of the Xoom should be $700. Either way I'm getting this bad boy.
They are also releasing several different tablets this year ranging from 7inch to 11 inch, along with wifi only models.
Here is the article I was paraphrasing.
http://www.trefis.com/articles/3836...-up-20-of-motorola-mobilitys-value/2011-02-07
Hopefully this helps get the word out about pricing.
Comparing anything to an apple product doesn't make sense. Apple products are over priced, over hyped and meant for the non tech-savvy/sheep. /rant
I'll only consider the xoom if there are custom roms for it, and also at a lower price as the OS is free.
Dual core laptops have been under $400 for years now.
britoso said:
Comparing anything to an apple product doesn't make sense. Apple products are over priced, over hyped and meant for the non tech-savvy/sheep.
I'll only consider the xoom if there are custom roms for it, and also at a lower price as the OS is free.
Dual core laptops have been under $400 for years now.
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well, overpriced apple products seem to be cheaper than the xoom according to the Best Buy ad...
I do agree that custom ROMs will be awesome, but for me not the deciding factor. I just really like the new OS, and if I like it, then other people will too. I'm not too picky.
I think the deciding factor will be either the bootloader, or if I cannot activate it where I am currently. (I'm deployed to Iraq, and no VZW cell towers lol)
Sirchuk said:
I think it's that there isn't a "middle ground." Sure, it's the same as a 32GB 3G iPad, but at least with the iPad you had the option of a 16GB WiFi-Only iPad, here there isn't an option, take it or leave it. I think that's the main issue. The iPad was available to different levels of consumer spending, the Xoom isn't. You just don't have the option, it's top of the line or nothing, and that's the issue.
Plus, $799 is misleading if the fine print is true. To activate WiFi you need at least a month of a data plan. So tack on $35 activation and $20 for a month of slow-ass service, and it's another $55. Plus, whatever it takes you as far as time to cancel the plan, you know Verizon isn't going to just make it a quick 30 second phone call to cancel the monthly service.
Honestly, just this data plan to enable WiFi is enough to make me say no. What the hell good is a tablet with zero internet connection. They should have given 1 month free service, not this additional $55 crap.
So yeah, true price is $855 for a tablet.
Another issue I have is the MOtorola Cliq. For a year they said they would update the OS, and it was in testing, and this and that, and then last week...Nothing. They canceled the update and gave a big "screw you" to their customers. That kind of attitude isn't really a company I wish to support. In 6 months from now, when they anounce the Xoom 2 and Honeycomb 3.5, will the Xoom get an update or will we be left high and dry? The companies track record leaves much to be desired.
I just have a feeling Xoom customers are going to get shafted by Motorola, and this WiFi data thing is just the beginning. It's making me very hesitant to pick up a Xoom.
You know that feeling you get when you're about to do something really stupid and at the moment you do it a loud "OH $HIT, BAD IDEA" resounds in your head? I get that feeling when I consider buying a Xoom.
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OK, so there is no wifi-only version yet, a reasonable objection. There likely will be, just like with the Galaxy Tab, so a little patience is all that's needed.
I do agree that requiring payment of at least one month of data with VZ is unreasonable for those that aren't looking for 3G data service, but again, a wifi-only version will likely be released.
Regarding the iPad 2, someone earlier said that ignoring it would be 'idiotic'. I strongly disagree - it doesn't really matter what specs/pricing/magic it will have, it's still iOS. The market leader doesn't necessarily make the best product for every potential customer, wouldn't you agree?
As I mentioned in another thread, I believe this device will be more successful in the corporate arena. For mobile workers, 3G data service is a necessity, so the lack of a wifi-only option is moot. A tablet is supremely useful for a mobile workforce, especially one with an open OS.
My only true disappointment is that it seems (so far, but once again, no official word yet) that there will be no carrier-subsidized pricing.
khov07 said:
I do agree that requiring payment of at least one month of data with VZ is unreasonable for those that aren't looking for 3G data service, but again, a wifi-only version will likely be released.
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I wonder though, can they really make the WiFi only model that much cheaper than the 3G model? I mean, if you're paying $55 to "activate" WiFi (which, this is essentially what you're doing if you aren't interested in 3G) then shouldn't the WiFi only model be the same price, $800, but with WiFi already turned on? I guess you could reduce the price a little, but it shouldn't be very much if that's the only difference.
Currently, Motorola is making people pay for a standard feature. I wonder how the disclosure will work. If it doesn't say "Monthly data plan required for WiFi access" on the package, aren't they setting themselves up for a lot of returns or a lawsuit?
csseale said:
Most are more pissed about the forced carrier activation. You add that on top of the price it truly becomes unreasonable. I was willing to pay the 800 although it would hurt but I understand. But if they force me to get something I don't want then its a no go. That's the majority of the issues.
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Click to collapse
This.
I'm disappointed but unsurprised by the Xoom price. I've said on this and other forums that the price is comparable to the iPad, but I had still hoped that it would be a little less ($6-700).
Really though, I'm more annoyed by the Verizon nastiness than anything else. Forced activation? I also think that their cost/gigabyte is way too high.
I'm still excited for the Xoom, but I'm no longer planning on being a day-one purchaser. Instead I'll wait to see how the G-Slate and T-Mo's data pricing compares.
I just read this in the Engadget comments:
Igor Kovalenko 43 minutes ago
I work for MOTO and I have no idea what is this about.
My best guess is that this actually refers to the WiFi Hotspot feature - turning that on does actually require "entitlement check" with a carrier. But there is no SW provision (known to me anyway) to somehow block turning on simple WiFi. The initial setup does not require Verizon activation either - you can "skip" and use WiFi for Google setup. At least that is the case on all preliminary SW builds I have tried so far. I don't think that will change.
If Verizon and/or BestBuy have invented something like this, then the best they can do is simply not sell it to you without Verizon account.
Some guy that claims to be a Moto tester over on the engdaget thread about this says it's probably talking about the wifi hotspot functionality which would cost 20$ plus the activation fee.
According to him he's seen nothing in the builds that would prevent basic wifi from working.
Hearsay of course, but it sounds logical.
First of all, I disagree with the original poster's comments about people complaining too much. I think people should complain if they think products are overpriced. Although this might not change Moto's price strategy in the short term, I'm sure the sale figures will eventually reflect the public's discontent. This will make companies like LG, HPalm, etc reconsider their future tablet prices.
Honestly, I don't mind the complaining at all because it lets me know who is going to buy and not going to buy. I, at this point am not planning to buy, feel better that there are others like me that can't afford it. Actually it's not about the price (i actually can afford it); because honestly what's the difference between 700 and 800? I think it's all about value. People want to get a device that they can justify getting.
I think others complaining about the pricing is just as valid as the original poster's complaint about Verizon charging initial service fees. It's all cheap shots that ultimately will work only for dedicated Android developers, rich people, and people who can't take the pressure.
Now I gotta go to class. I'm Late!
asianxtreme said:
First of all, I disagree with the original poster's comments about people complaining too much. I think people should complain if they think products are overpriced. Although this might not change Moto's price strategy in the short term, I'm sure the sale figures will eventually reflect the public's discontent. This will make companies like LG, HPalm, etc reconsider their future tablet prices.
Honestly, I don't mind the complaining at all because it lets me know who is going to buy and not going to buy. I, at this point am not planning to buy, feel better that there are others like me that can't afford it. Actually it's not about the price (i actually can afford it); because honestly what's the difference between 700 and 800? I think it's all about value. People want to get a device that they can justify getting.
I think others complaining about the pricing is just as valid as the original poster's complaint about Verizon charging initial service fees. It's all cheap shots that ultimately will work only for dedicated Android developers, rich people, and people who can't take the pressure.
Now I gotta go to class. I'm Late!
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Far be it from me to restrict anyone's 1st amendment rights, but shouldn't complaints about product pricing be fielded in the right forum? A tech forum geared toward the development community filled with pages of complaints about pricing seems like wasted space.
How about a discussion here on XDA regarding, you know, the actual technology at hand?
I look forward to getting the device in my hands and discussing issues like performance, battery life, the Honeycomb UI, features, glitches, Exchange synchronization, and all the great things XDA is known for.
khov07 said:
Far be it from me to restrict anyone's 1st amendment rights, but shouldn't complaints about product pricing be fielded in the right forum? A tech forum geared toward the development community filled with pages of complaints about pricing seems like wasted space.
How about a discussion here on XDA regarding, you know, the actual technology at hand?
I look forward to getting the device in my hands and discussing issues like performance, battery life, the Honeycomb UI, features, glitches, Exchange synchronization, and all the great things XDA is known for.
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Which would be the right forum? The forum description says: "Discussion about the Motorola Xoom tablet (general Q&A, tips & tricks, etc)". Seems like this is the perfect place for this sort of talk.
Xevilious said:
Which would be the right forum? The forum description says: "Discussion about the Motorola Xoom tablet (general Q&A, tips & tricks, etc)". Seems like this is the perfect place for this sort of talk.
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exactly what I was going to say^^^.
There isn't a forum for "ranting" and there isn't even one for you for "ranting about ranting (but still really ranting)" lol.
Also, the right forum for you to discuss the specs and such should be development.
No, judging from other devices.. development is for things such as ROMs, and kernels. Not specification discussion. That would also go in General. Anything referencing the Xoom in a general sense (may that be discussing it's specs, bashing it's prices, etc. would go in General.
I think.
If you look over to the Nexus One General section, you'd see they actually discuss tablets and whatever else there. Without the threads being deleted. "General" seems really for you to discuss Android with people who own the same device as you.
asianxtreme said:
exactly what I was going to say^^^.
There isn't a forum for "ranting" and there isn't even one for you for "ranting about ranting (but still really ranting)" lol.
Also, the right forum for you to discuss the specs and such should be development.
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LOL - thanks for the lecture and the laughs, noobs. When you have contributed to the community, let us know.
Back to the subject at hand...
This looks to be a great piece of hardware that may or may not be priced well. In three weeks we should know whether or not it lives up to the hype, and VZ gives you 30 days anyway to try it out (corporate customers anyway).
The G-Slate really doesn't seem to thrill me much. The 3D thing is pretty gimmicky, and is sure to carry a price premium of its own, for a very limited use.
http://briefmobile.com/will-the-xoom-fail-at-launch
Arcadia310 said:
http://briefmobile.com/will-the-xoom-fail-at-launch
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I hope it doesn't bomb, but I think it will. If it is a success, I will be surprised.
My hope is that the other companies planning on launching Honeycomb tablets learn a little from this (likely) failed launch and try to avoid the many mistakes made by Verizon, Best Buy, and Motorola. I'm more interested in Honeycomb succeeding than the Xoom or any one device, but this has not been a good start.
I posted the first comment there, to me he seems to be a huge Apple fan lol.
"You got it all wrong, they have been vocal winning best of CES a bit over a month ago when it was announced and then again during MWC a few days ago. Meanwhile we heard directly from the CEO a week back on the exact pricing of the 3G model and WIFI version. Meanwhile commercials have been airing regularly.
Also if you want to compare this next gen tablet to the old dominant one, I feel you must compare at least the price of the WIFI only model with the same 32gb gives you the exact same $599.99, I feel you are giving an overly Apple biased argument when you put a dual core 1ghz CPU up against a single core as well as the Xoom having 4 times the ram, expandable data space through a microSD slot, HDMI out, a front and rear facing camera a true widescreen with 16:10 aspect ratio running at a higher resolution on what some are saying is the best tablet operating system to date.
Yes I'm planing on picking one up on Thursday and I feel it will more then likely out feature the iPad 2 as well.
Typed from my iPad."
The video of the last Engadget podcast had a valid point. When Android first came out, the iPhone was thought to be an insurmountable force. It was believed that there was no chance of it succeeding against the iPhone. Not only did it exceed expectations, it seems to have exceeded the iPhone period.
The XOOM is a real tablet, moreso than anything in existence. It is more capable than the iPad in both functionality and in the fact that it's a tablet OS designed on a tablet for a tablet. It's not a desktop OS on a tablet like Windows 7, or a phone OS lazily modified for a tablet like iOS. This means that, while the XOOM 3G may not be ringing true to the tune of some people's wallets/budgets, it will do well among many of the people who have been waiting for a real tablet, like me. I don't know how many of me there are, but we will know in a month. Also, we will know even moreso when the WiFi-Only version is released, which I pray is no later than the end of Q1 2011 b.k.a March. The first thing I will be doing is making a series of videos showcasing the power of video streaming on the device. My phone can handle streaming of AVI.. but I haven't managed to stream 1080p MKV yet.
Your question should be more will XOOM fail period, because launch is not a fair indicator. By price alone, the original launch will possibly be underwhelming. Many people will be waiting for the cheaper WiFi-only version. Others will be waiting to see if the device has a locked bootloader, while some may be waiting for LG, Samsung(though I can't see why anyone would trust them after they abandoned the Galaxy Tab 1 after less than 6 months), or the multitude of other tablets. Some people will also be waiting(futilely) for the sure to be underwhelming iPad 2 announcement of 1 or 2 real improvements and a bunch more fancy bull. The last group will still be on the fence about needing a tablet. You might see a fair uptick in a few months before the next school year if any of these proves useful for students.
The sheer amount of options in the next 6 months is really going to make it hard to gauge the success of Honeycomb, which is the real question. It's about Honeycomb, not the XOOM.
The Xoom will fail. I don't even know if I'll buy one anymore, and I was the biggest fan of it after CES. If I buy one, it will likely be the wifi version. The nail in that coffin is the ridiculous restrictions on activation. Requiring 3g activation, plus charging $200 more for a 3g/4g radio is outrageous. I don't think I would have even taken a second look at the $800 price tag if I 1) didn't have to pay more to activate, and 2) didn't know that they're charging $200 just for the 3g radio.
We have to vote with our wallets, and my wallet says that a 3g/4g radio isn't worth $200 and carrier restrictions will not be tolerated.
setite said:
The video of the last Engadget podcast had a valid point. When Android first came out, the iPhone was thought to be an insurmountable force. It was believed that there was no chance of it succeeding against the iPhone. Not only did it exceed expectations, it seems to have exceeded the iPhone period.
The XOOM is a real tablet, moreso than anything in existence. It is more capable than the iPad in both functionality and in the fact that it's a tablet OS designed on a tablet for a tablet. It's not a desktop OS on a tablet like Windows 7, or a phone OS lazily modified for a tablet like iOS. This means that, while the XOOM 3G may not be ringing true to the tune of some people's wallets/budgets, it will do well among many of the people who have been waiting for a real tablet, like me. I don't know how many of me there are, but we will know in a month. Also, we will know even moreso when the WiFi-Only version is released, which I pray is no later than the end of Q1 2011 b.k.a March. The first thing I will be doing is making a series of videos showcasing the power of video streaming on the device. My phone can handle streaming of AVI.. but I haven't managed to stream 1080p MKV yet.
Your question should be more will XOOM fail period, because launch is not a fair indicator. By price alone, the original launch will possibly be underwhelming. Many people will be waiting for the cheaper WiFi-only version. Others will be waiting to see if the device has a locked bootloader, while some may be waiting for LG, Samsung(though I can't see why anyone would trust them after they abandoned the Galaxy Tab 1 after less than 6 months), or the multitude of other tablets. Some people will also be waiting(futilely) for the sure to be underwhelming iPad 2 announcement of 1 or 2 real improvements and a bunch more fancy bull. The last group will still be on the fence about needing a tablet. You might see a fair uptick in a few months before the next school year if any of these proves useful for students.
The sheer amount of options in the next 6 months is really going to make it hard to gauge the success of Honeycomb, which is the real question. It's about Honeycomb, not the XOOM.
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I think the launch will fail as far as selling a high amount of units and establishing a brand name. Once the iPad 2 and other Honeycomb tablets hit the market, the playing field will be a lot different than it is now. The Xoom will be forgotten about. Even if it isn't forgotten about, it'll be VERY hard for Motorola to get a good amount of sales with it. Since the G-Slate and GT 10.1 are so evenly matched, the sales will basically be split. Unless one of the tablets are much cheaper than the others and has decent television marketing.
Arcadia310 said:
I think the launch will fail as far as selling a high amount of units and establishing a brand name. Once the iPad 2 and other Honeycomb tablets hit the market, the playing field will be a lot different than it is now. The Xoom will be forgotten about. Even if it isn't forgotten about, it'll be VERY hard for Motorola to get a good amount of sales with it. Since the G-Slate and GT 10.1 are so evenly matched, the sales will basically be split. Unless one of the tablets are much cheaper than the others and has decent television marketing.
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This is not true. Something I watched today, maybe the Engadget podcast, said that the G-Slate is going to be 1000$. This is perfectly believable because its got what the XOOM has + useless 3D features. The Galaxy Tab 10.1 is not evenly matched. It has a smaller size but IIRC it's missing a microSD card slot, hdmi, and usb. The only way to get USB, and maybe HDMI is to use hard to find PDMI cables. It might be cheaper out the gate, but any discount will be mitigated or obliterated by the need to pay high price pdmi adapters that 99.9% of us don't have.
I think we will see the WiFi-Only 32GB version released around iPad 2 time for 600$. I am hoping they release a 16GB version too to compete at the 500$ price point, but I don't think it will matter. Honeycomb will not be for people who are happy with the iPad, as such I don't think the 500$ price point is as important as people think.
Of course, only time will tell.
setite said:
This is not true. Something I watched today, maybe the Engadget podcast, said that the G-Slate is going to be 1000$. This is perfectly believable because its got what the XOOM has + useless 3D features. The Galaxy Tab 10.1 is not evenly matched. It has a smaller size but IIRC it's missing a microSD card slot, hdmi, and usb. The only way to get USB, and maybe HDMI is to use hard to find PDMI cables. It might be cheaper out the gate, but any discount will be mitigated or obliterated by the need to pay high price pdmi adapters that 99.9% of us don't have.
I think we will see the WiFi-Only 32GB version released around iPad 2 time for 600$. I am hoping they release a 16GB version too to compete at the 500$ price point, but I don't think it will matter. Honeycomb will not be for people who are happy with the iPad, as such I don't think the 500$ price point is as important as people think.
Of course, only time will tell.
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$1000 converted from UK currency?
Devices in other countries always cost much more than they do in the US. Heck, the Optimus 2X is like $750 if you convert Korean currency to US dollars. I hardly believe that will be the final price. Was $1200 the final price of the Xoom? No it wasn't. Even with 3D technology, it still won't release anywhere around that.
Arcadia310 said:
$1000 converted from UK currency?
Devices in other countries always cost much more than they do in the US. Heck, the Optimus 2X is like $750 if you convert Korean currency to US dollars. I hardly believe that will be the final price. Was $1200 the final price of the Xoom? No it wasn't. Even with 3D technology, it still won't release anywhere around that.
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Well no one really thought the XOOM was 1200$. Apple fanboys perpetuated that nonsense to hurt the device, but it was obviously a placeholder price as they always are.
About the 1000$.. I just heard it on Engadget podcast, I expected them to use US money. If its 1000$ GBP.. that's crappy reporting. Though I have to say I don't see the LG being competitive with 3G. I'm going to be so i can preorder a xoom in 9 hours
setite said:
Well no one really thought the XOOM was 1200$. Apple fanboys perpetuated that nonsense to hurt the device, but it was obviously a placeholder price as they always are.
About the 1000$.. I just heard it on Engadget podcast, I expected them to use US money. If its 1000$ GBP.. that's crappy reporting. Though I have to say I don't see the LG being competitive with 3G. I'm going to be so i can preorder a xoom in 9 hours
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If they're "Apple" fanboys what does that make you? I can't stand when people are biased like this its immature as hell dude.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
There is a huge "Netral" camp of comsumers out there, who should really be the primary target of both Apple and Non-Apple tablet producers.
From this perspective, if , assuming Apple follows the same style by releasing iPad 2 at 499/599/699 for wifi-only version and reduce iPad 1 by 100 USD for each level, XOOM has a VERY VERY hard time to justify its 800 price tag with comparable iPad 2, whose functionality is rumored to be comparable to current "state-of-art" tablets.
And one important point, from marketing point of view,
1. Still a lot of people are seen as very cool by carrying an apple product around, but not by carrying a Dell/Motorola around. Sony may be better.
2. Was there ever/is there going to be a long line like the one on first launching day of iPhone 4 for Motorola's XOOM? where it is gonna be? Best Buy's store front???
Again, I am not an Apple fanboy, and in fact, I hate their arrogant attitude and monopoly behavior (subscription policy etc etc), but just at the time I am about to happily find the best Android tablet come out to compete with iPad, I saw the price tag... ouch! Unfortunate decision, They thought their brand carry such a premium???
Arcadia310 said:
If they're "Apple" fanboys what does that make you? I can't stand when people are biased like this its immature as hell dude.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Correction. LG won't be competitive with 3D, not 3G.
I am simply stating that anyone who thought the 1200$ price was legit is either an idiot, a noob, or intentionally fear mongering. I knew instantly that 1200$ was the typical price holder we always see initially in BBY and other retailers systems in the month(s) leading up to a release. When the HTC EVO first showed up in systems it was listed at well over 1500$, thought I don't recall the number. So if someone is knowledgeable of the industry, and thought 1200$ was legit, they are an idiot. If they were knowledgeable and perpetuated the price, like most of the Engadget raging commenters, they are a fearmongering Apple/Palm/Nokia-boy. Or simply a troll.
I currently choose Android. I do not pretend that Apple is complete crap. They serve a purpose, and I can see that. A fanboy is someone who can't see that.
I wonder what your issue is that you call me immature.
setite said:
Correction. LG won't be competitive with 3D, not 3G.
I am simply stating that anyone who thought the 1200$ price was legit is either an idiot, a noob, or intentionally fear mongering. I knew instantly that 1200$ was the typical price holder we always see initially in BBY and other retailers systems in the month(s) leading up to a release. When the HTC EVO first showed up in systems it was listed at well over 1500$, thought I don't recall the number. So if someone is knowledgeable of the industry, and thought 1200$ was legit, they are an idiot. If they were knowledgeable and perpetuated the price, like most of the Engadget raging commenters, they are a fearmongering Apple/Palm/Nokia-boy. Or simply a troll.
I currently choose Android. I do not pretend that Apple is complete crap. They serve a purpose, and I can see that. A fanboy is someone who can't see that.
I wonder what your issue is that you call me immature.
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The fanboy comments are always so immature. I just skip past them.
keitht said:
The fanboy comments are always so immature. I just skip past them.
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I'm confused. Am I being labeled as a fanboy?
setite said:
I'm confused. Am I being labeled as a fanboy?
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No no no... not you
keitht said:
No no no... not you
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Ok good. I mean I love Android, but I have always considered myself reasonable in my assessments. I have switched allegiances too willy nilly to be a true fanboy. I was swinging the apple banner till the evo release.
jiwengang said:
There is a huge "Netral" camp of comsumers out there, who should really be the primary target of both Apple and Non-Apple tablet producers.
From this perspective, if , assuming Apple follows the same style by releasing iPad 2 at 499/599/699 for wifi-only version and reduce iPad 1 by 100 USD for each level, XOOM has a VERY VERY hard time to justify its 800 price tag with comparable iPad 2, whose functionality is rumored to be comparable to current "state-of-art" tablets.
And one important point, from marketing point of view,
1. Still a lot of people are seen as very cool by carrying an apple product around, but not by carrying a Dell/Motorola around. Sony may be better.
2. Was there ever/is there going to be a long line like the one on first launching day of iPhone 4 for Motorola's XOOM? where it is gonna be? Best Buy's store front???
Again, I am not an Apple fanboy, and in fact, I hate their arrogant attitude and monopoly behavior (subscription policy etc etc), but just at the time I am about to happily find the best Android tablet come out to compete with iPad, I saw the price tag... ouch! Unfortunate decision, They thought their brand carry such a premium???
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Click to collapse
I hate to compare anything with the idevices. But when you first see the $800 price tag. It makes everybody thinks motorola over price it compared to the ipad. but come on, the ipad has only half the features in the xoom. 64 gb ipad with wifi plus 3g is $829. that's $30 more than the xoom. The only thing that version has over the xoom is storage. Xoom on the other hand has sd card slot.
For the record, I just check best buy site yesterday. pre order is now on back order, so are the accessories. I'm just not sure if I can trust that source though. Seemed pretty fast.
ps: I was the first one pre order the thing at my local best buy.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
wang1404 said:
I hate to compare anything with the idevices. But when you first see the $800 price tag. It makes everybody thinks motorola over price it compared to the ipad. but come on, the ipad has only half the features in the xoom. 64 gb ipad with wifi plus 3g is $829. that's $30 more than the xoom. The only thing that version has over the xoom is storage. Xoom on the other hand has sd card slot.
For the record, I just check best buy site yesterday. pre order is now on back order, so are the accessories. I'm just not sure if I can trust that source though. Seemed pretty fast.
ps: I was the first one pre order the thing at my local best buy.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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The Xoom accessories were "backordered" right off the bat at BB.com. They were never in stock.
It comes with no flash.... So yes.
You have to download flash 10.1 from the market. Flash will work w/ this tab.
Is that I have not seen a review of the Xoom anywhere. Has anybody else? Somehow Motorola was able to get a Xoom in Chad Ochocinco's hands a month ago but I haven't seen any evidence that Motorola has shipped review units to media members. Will we have to wait until after release on Thursday to see any reviews? This release has been so shady that I'm waiting until after I see a credible reviewer verify all of Motorola's claims before I consider purchasing.
Jrockttu said:
Is that I have not seen a review of the Xoom anywhere. Has anybody else? Somehow Motorola was able to get a Xoom in Chad Ochocinco's hands a month ago but I haven't seen any evidence that Motorola has shipped review units to media members. Will we have to wait until after release on Thursday to see any reviews? This release has been so shady that I'm waiting until after I see a credible reviewer verify all of Motorola's claims before I consider purchasing.
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There have been countless reviews. You mean you want an in-depth detailed review from someone who gets to use the device "in the wild". That is not out yet, and that is normal for a new device of this sort. The devices we have seen so far aren't ready for primetime, and we can only hope that the XOOM I pick up in 4 days is ready.
The release isn't shady, it's just a little rushed. They are trying to bring the device to market ASAP. Would you rather they push the release by a month and send out samples to reviewers? I think the review I put on YouTube will be better than most professional reviews, except for the methodical, if anecdotal, reviews Engadget and other upper echelon tech blogs post.
setite said:
There have been countless reviews. You mean you want an in-depth detailed review from someone who gets to use the device "in the wild". That is not out yet, and that is normal for a new device of this sort. The devices we have seen so far aren't ready for primetime, and we can only hope that the XOOM I pick up in 4 days is ready.
The release isn't shady, it's just a little rushed. They are trying to bring the device to market ASAP. Would you rather they push the release by a month and send out samples to reviewers? I think the review I put on YouTube will be better than most professional reviews, except for the methodical, if anecdotal, reviews Engadget and other upper echelon tech blogs post.
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I disagree. It is shady in the way they are forcing people to pay an extra $35 activation fee plus $20 min service just to activate WiFi. Yes, it is stated in the small print but still, bad business and shady in my mind.
keitht said:
I disagree. It is shady in the way they are forcing people to pay an extra $35 activation fee plus $20 min service just to activate WiFi. Yes, it is stated in the small print but still, bad business and shady in my mind.
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If you consider that Verizon has put money into this project, it's fair to expect them to make a profit on each unit. I think that they should have worked something out with Best Buy that allowed them to take a cut from the 800$, but the result would have been the tablet costing 850$.
Hasn't a rumor been floating around that buying direct from Verizon would require no activation? As counter-intuitive as that may sound, it tracks as Motorola is selling the XOOM 3G wholesale for 550$. So if BB sells it, they keep the 250$ difference, if Verizon sells it, they don't need you to pay for a month of service because they have already made 250$.
It's not shady, but arguably bad business from a consumer image angle. People who don't understand what is going on, or people who simply don't care will look poorly upon the policy. Knowing that there is a WiFi Only version for 200$ less down the road should assuage any issues. But you still have the right to be mad, even if it just gives you heartburn
setite said:
If you consider that Verizon has put money into this project, it's fair to expect them to make a profit on each unit. I think that they should have worked something out with Best Buy that allowed them to take a cut from the 800$, but the result would have been the tablet costing 850$.
Hasn't a rumor been floating around that buying direct from Verizon would require no activation? As counter-intuitive as that may sound, it tracks as Motorola is selling the XOOM 3G wholesale for 550$. So if BB sells it, they keep the 250$ difference, if Verizon sells it, they don't need you to pay for a month of service because they have already made 250$.
It's not shady, but arguably bad business from a consumer image angle. People who don't understand what is going on, or people who simply don't care will look poorly upon the policy. Knowing that there is a WiFi Only version for 200$ less down the road should assuage any issues. But you still have the right to be mad, even if it just gives you heartburn
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You sound like a lawyer It is bad business and consumers will speak with their wallets. This price point will not ultimately work. And we still do not know actual issues with the device including what is going on with the SD support. I was all excited about this before but now, I cannot see paying $900 without a single accessory.
keitht said:
You sound like a lawyer It is bad business and consumers will speak with their wallets. This price point will not ultimately work. And we still do not know actual issues with the device including what is going on with the SD support. I was all excited about this before but now, I cannot see paying $900 without a single accessory.
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Yup. I am planning to go to law school . I agree with you. I just have a habit of playing devil's advocate, and trying to inform other consumers so they don't get enraged and end up hurting themselves by getting angry and making sweeping statements they can't take back. Like when Steve Jobs got angry and committed to never having flash, and forever people like me who need flash can't buy an iPad.
setite said:
There have been countless reviews. You mean you want an in-depth detailed review from someone who gets to use the device "in the wild". That is not out yet, and that is normal for a new device of this sort. The devices we have seen so far aren't ready for primetime, and we can only hope that the XOOM I pick up in 4 days is ready.
The release isn't shady, it's just a little rushed. They are trying to bring the device to market ASAP. Would you rather they push the release by a month and send out samples to reviewers? I think the review I put on YouTube will be better than most professional reviews, except for the methodical, if anecdotal, reviews Engadget and other upper echelon tech blogs post.
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I haven't seen a single review, just a few hands-on impressions in a controlled environment. I want something that validates the 10 hour battery life and that tells me if the OS is buggy, etc.
I consider it a shady release for the reasons already covered in this thread. The $800 price tag is high, but reasonable, until you consider that it's a $200 premium for 3g/4g, you have to activate data to unlock wifi, and they'll charge you an activation fee of $35 any time you turn on the data. That last part is the biggest kick in the nuts. Motorola, Verizon, and the retailers are all trying to get their cut of the device and the consumers are the ones being punished.
Jrockttu said:
I haven't seen a single review, just a few hands-on impressions in a controlled environment. I want something that validates the 10 hour battery life and that tells me if the OS is buggy, etc.
I consider it a shady release for the reasons already covered in this thread. The $800 price tag is high, but reasonable, until you consider that it's a $200 premium for 3g/4g, you have to activate data to unlock wifi, and they'll charge you an activation fee of $35 any time you turn on the data. That last part is the biggest kick in the nuts. Motorola, Verizon, and the retailers are all trying to get their cut of the device and the consumers are the ones being punished.
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Agreed. The last part is indeed a true roshambo kick in the nards. I am quite cross about that particular detail as it sort of defeats the purpose of month to month, and makes no sense given my admittedly limited knowledge of how CDMA works. AFAIK all that should be necessary is an OTA provisioning of the tablet when you want to enable service. Something I do on a regular basis for my dad who goes through a new phone every 6 months. He buys crappy flip phones on ebay for 20$ and I activate them using a combination of the Verizon website and a # code on the phone. Easy Peasy, no cost. This makes it clear that they are trying to get you to just keep a minimal data plan month to month, because without a gap of 2 months or more, you will be paying more in the grand scheme if you pay an activation fee each time you lapse. It's almost like a late fee.
Jrockttu said:
I haven't seen a single review, just a few hands-on impressions in a controlled environment. I want something that validates the 10 hour battery life and that tells me if the OS is buggy, etc.
I consider it a shady release for the reasons already covered in this thread. The $800 price tag is high, but reasonable, until you consider that it's a $200 premium for 3g/4g, you have to activate data to unlock wifi, and they'll charge you an activation fee of $35 any time you turn on the data. That last part is the biggest kick in the nuts. Motorola, Verizon, and the retailers are all trying to get their cut of the device and the consumers are the ones being punished.
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It's up the the manufacturer to release the reviewers from the NDA and let them post reviews. The sheer number of developers that have the Xoom is proof that reviewers have had them for a while. Usually reviews don't come out until the device is actually for sale.
Jrockttu said:
Is that I have not seen a review of the Xoom anywhere. Has anybody else? Somehow Motorola was able to get a Xoom in Chad Ochocinco's hands a month ago but I haven't seen any evidence that Motorola has shipped review units to media members. Will we have to wait until after release on Thursday to see any reviews? This release has been so shady that I'm waiting until after I see a credible reviewer verify all of Motorola's claims before I consider purchasing.
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There have been Atrix reviews out for a while, but so far, it's been mum on the Xoom. It doesn't make much sense to me either.
That said, I think "shady" is the wrong word. I would use "bizarre". Everything about this has been bizarre, and the fact that nobody even knows when the thing is being released just flabbergasts me. Most launches include things like, you know, release dates, prices, venues, etc.... Right now, the only thing we know for certain is that it will be available at Best Buy in late February for $800, and we haven't known that stuff for very long.
However much I dislike Apple, Steve Jobs would never have let something like this happen... unless we're talking about the mythical white iPhone 4.
Xevilious said:
There have been Atrix reviews out for a while, but so far, it's been mum on the Xoom. It doesn't make much sense to me either.
That said, I think "shady" is the wrong word. I would use "bizarre". Everything about this has been bizarre, and the fact that nobody even knows when the thing is being released just flabbergasts me. Most launches include things like, you know, release dates, prices, venues, etc.... Right now, the only thing we know for certain is that it will be available at Best Buy in late February for $800, and we haven't known that stuff for very long.
However much I dislike Apple, Steve Jobs would never have let something like this happen... unless we're talking about the mythical white iPhone 4.
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It's just an amazing failure of a launch. It boggles my mind that they can come off of their "Best of CES" performance and get nothing but bad press thereafter. How can they not effectively communicate the price and release dates across media and retailers? Even after Sanjay Jha confirmed the price, the price still isn't listed on the official Xoom website! So much potential wasted. I'm an Apple hater, but nobody can deny that they know how to run a product launch and these other companies need to take notes every June.
Jrockttu said:
It's just an amazing failure of a launch. It boggles my mind that they can come off of their "Best of CES" performance and get nothing but bad press thereafter. How can they not effectively communicate the price and release dates across media and retailers? Even after Sanjay Jha confirmed the price, the price still isn't listed on the official Xoom website! So much potential wasted. I'm an Apple hater, but nobody can deny that they know how to run a product launch and these other companies need to take notes every June.
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Exactly correct. Motorola could stand to take several lessons from Apple, mainly marketing.
http://www.androidcentral.com/confirmation-motorola-xoom-4glte-pops
I feel sorry for you 3g verizon owners, seens like verizon wants to rape wallets. They should let current xoom owners trade in their tablets for the new version.
thanks for "feeling sorry" for us, that felt genuine. Ever thought that the 4g xoom might come at the same time as the 4g upgrade for the original xoom?
slack04 said:
thanks for "feeling sorry" for us, that felt genuine. Ever thought that the 4g xoom might come at the same time as the 4g upgrade for the original xoom?
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sarcasm?
they could of put the day 1 supporters on priority and gave u guys 4g first at least out of respect. Well, I do hope that original xoom owners do get the upgrades too.
They just shot the finger at early adopters.
Kippui said:
they could of put the day 1 supporters on priority and gave u guys 4g first at least out of respect. Well, I do hope that original xoom owners do get the upgrades too.
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Why on earth would I want to spend the money to buy an all new tablet if the one I have is being upgraded to the same features for free? I assume that the Xoom 4G will have some tweaks beyond just getting LTE capability but as of this moment we know very little.
Why do people feel the need to asume the worst without waiting to see what the actual facts are? We may end up getting shafted but as of this moment there is no evidence to back this.
JanetPanic said:
Why on earth would I want to spend the money to buy an all new tablet if the one I have is being upgraded to the same features for free? I assume that the Xoom 4G will have some tweaks beyond just getting LTE capability but as of this moment we know very little.
Why do people feel the need to asume the worst without waiting to see what the actual facts are? We may end up getting shafted but as of this moment there is no evidence to back this.
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They are not going to update the old xoom. If thats not evident already you are pretty naive.
Verizon xoom faq page "When will the Motorola Xoom™ 4G LTE™ upgrade be available?
We expect to offer the 4G LTE upgrade shortly after launching the Motorola Xoom. For more information, visit our Upgrade Information page and register your email address. You’ll receive an email notification once the upgrade becomes available along with simple instructions for getting your device upgraded."
falconeight said:
They are not going to update the old xoom. If thats not evident already you are pretty naive.
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Would you care to wager on that?
falconeight said:
Verizon xoom faq page "When will the Motorola Xoom™ 4G LTE™ upgrade be available?
We expect to offer the 4G LTE upgrade shortly after launching the Motorola Xoom. For more information, visit our Upgrade Information page and register your email address. You’ll receive an email notification once the upgrade becomes available along with simple instructions for getting your device upgraded."
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Yes, yes. We have all read that statement before. Late does not mean not coming. Heck I would argue that the false alarm messages where some were provided instructions on sending in their Xoom would not have occurred if Motorola had no intent on upgrading the xooms. How would a message get incorrectly sent if there was no plan on ever sending it?
If Motorola does not upgrade (or replace) the original Xooms then they have a class action lawsuit on their hands. It is one thing to decide not to upgrade a device when no official statements have been made. It is a completely different animal to make a future upgrade a major part of your marketing and withdraw it. Beyond consumer backlash, this would cause Motorola significant trouble with the FTC for deceptive advertising. I am not naive, nor do I think corporations have our best interest at hearts. I am aware of what corporations can and can not do in relation to public statements about their products however.
JanetPanic said:
Would you care to wager on that?
Yes, yes. We have all read that statement before. Late does not mean not coming. Heck I would argue that the false alarm messages where some were provided instructions on sending in their Xoom would not have occurred if Motorola had no intent on upgrading the xooms. How would a message get incorrectly sent if there was no plan on ever sending it?
If Motorola does not upgrade (or replace) the original Xooms then they have a class action lawsuit on their hands. It is one thing to decide not to upgrade a device when no official statements have been made. It is a completely different animal to make a future upgrade a major part of your marketing and withdraw it. Beyond consumer backlash, this would cause Motorola significant trouble with the FTC for deceptive advertising. I am not naive, nor do I think corporations have our best interest at hearts. I am aware of what corporations can and can not do in relation to public statements about their products however.
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Motorola has already done deceptive advertising, and their will be no class action lawsuit. They will offer a discount to upgrade to the new model. On Verizon it clearly states that it is 4g upgradeable when it is available. That could be years and years, and by then no one will care. They pulled a fast one on you guys, and probably planned on updating it then crunched the numbers of buying the chip, mailing it in, installing, returning to the customer and it wasn't cost effective. Even if their were a class action lawsuit it would cost less than the cost of upgrading.
JanetPanic said:
Would you care to wager on that?
If Motorola does not upgrade (or replace) the original Xooms then they have a class action lawsuit on their hands. It is one thing to decide not to upgrade a device when no official statements have been made. It is a completely different animal to make a future upgrade a major part of your marketing and withdraw it. Beyond consumer backlash, this would cause Motorola significant trouble with the FTC for deceptive advertising. I am not naive, nor do I think corporations have our best interest at hearts. I am aware of what corporations can and can not do in relation to public statements about their products however.
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I don't think companies like Motorla care much about class action lawsuits. I'm sure Motorola has a staff of highly paid laywers just for such situations.
When people were threatening to sue Samsung over the uselsess GPS in the Galaxy S phone. Samsung showed no concern whatsoever. They did not even seem concerned about the bad publicity. Even when a specific law firm was named to handle the suit, Samsung did not even respond to people about the GPS issue.
Digital Man said:
I don't think companies like Motorla care much about class action lawsuits. I'm sure Motorola has a staff of highly paid laywers just for such situations.
When people were threatening to sue Samsung over the uselsess GPS in the Galaxy S phone. Samsung showed no concern whatsoever. They did not even seem concerned about the bad publicity. Even when a specific law firm was named to handle the suit, Samsung did not even respond to people about the GPS issue.
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Exactly my point.
Kippui said:
http://www.androidcentral.com/confirmation-motorola-xoom-4glte-pops
I feel sorry for you 3g verizon owners, seens like verizon wants to rape wallets. They should let current xoom owners trade in their tablets for the new version.
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This is not hardly evidence of an entirely new device. I'll wait until an actual announcement from Motorola is out.
I'm going to make a run by a Verizon store this week and try an ultimatum or sorts. Convert my data account to a voice line and take the Xoom back.
Don't care if I have to pay for a new device or not. I'm just tired of paying a monthly service fee who's service I do not believe was ever fulfilled. Wish in one hand and crap in another....
Shame on me for early adoption, sure, but new Samsung Tab 10.1 I purchased this weekend is pretty sweet tho
I guess the more dramatically underhanded it seems, the more factual it must be, right?
I suppose in addition to suddenly deciding, "Eh, **** 'em." about us Xoom1 owners, Motorola is gonna sell the new 4G Xoom at half the price we all paid, -ya know, just for that extra kick in the nuts cause they hate us so much.
Every time one of you Chicken Littles runs around these forums posting dark, dismal conjecture as if it were fact, a kitten is slaughtered somewhere for it's whiskers. When you post up what you glean as "fact" from these little blogs (IE, "cyberfarts"), you help undermine the validity of the Internet as a reliable news source for all of the FACTUAL news it has to offer.
You also end up looking a bit naive. Blogs are nothing more than online gossip columns.
"Just the facts, ma'am."
The best part is going to be when the 4g upgrade happens, these same doomsayers will immediately start screaming about how quickly 4g kills their battery and how much they hate it.
Talk of class action lawsuits is /em facepalm. Class actions benefit lawyers, not the class.
I have the Xoom wifi, but this also pissed me off as it shows Motorola's attitude towards their customers. I bought mine at cost co and had 8 days to return it, I think I will and get a galaxy tab 10.1 (that is the only other honeycomb tablet that cost co will carry and I have to spend the refund money there).
I have no idea what to do, I got my wifi zoom 9 days ago and I have 15 days to return it. In Canada we don't even have 3.1 honeycomb nor do we have a 3g version. I don't want this tablet to be outdated after 2 weeks of owning it. I spent alot of money on it and now to see Motorola had a 2nd version planned gives me a bad feeling. Should I return it or not?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Return it or root it. With your current concerns, you're simply not going to be happy with it unless you root it.
So any othr differences between this device and ours? Besides the lte card?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
That's pretty upsetting. Why **** your early adapters?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
cwizardtx said:
This is not hardly evidence of an entirely new device. I'll wait until an actual announcement from Motorola is out.
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I just got my Xoom Moto Dock (50% off too), and the instructions for it say Motorola Xoom 4G LTE Multimedia Station. This was purchased from the Motorola Store.