Database Users

HTC response on short Battery Life: Expect it!

I wrote to HTC to ask how they measured their "up to 490 hours on Standby" and "up to 380 mins talk time" referred to in their HD2 website specification especially as people like myself were experiencing the battery going flat in <24 hours with almost zero usage of the phone.
Here's their official reply.
Thank you for your email. The specifications that you have referenced are laboratory test conditions, and are not indicative of real-world performance, nor do they take into account the considerable drain incurred by the myriad services and programs that run as a matter of course on Windows Mobile 6.5, as well as any other background applications that may be running, which may not be readily apparent. Please be advised that these laboratory test figures are in line with EU regulations concerning the testing of mobile device batteries, and the real-world battery time that you have quoted of 20-24 hours is well within what we would expect of this device. We have recently released a large capacity battery for use with the HD2, and this can be purchased from the following link :- http://www.htcaccessorystore.com/uk/p_htc_item.aspx?i=195058
So in simple terms, we mislead you in our advertising and you'll be lucky to get the battery to last 24 hours. We can't fix it so buy a bigger battery!
What's the point in publishing performance data that has no relationship to "real-world" conditions. Most customers won't be using the phone in a laboratory.
Perhaps we should start a new campaign to get HTC to be more honest about "real-world" expectations.

Bobins24 said:
What's the point in publishing performance data that has no relationship to "real-world" conditions. Most customers won't be using the phone in a laboratory.
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Because as they said that measurement procedure is a standard that everybody follows, so it would be stupid to do it differently, why "not lie" when everybody does so (and they actually probably wouldn't be allowed to do it differently).

Bobins24 said:
I wrote to HTC to ask how they measured their "up to 490 hours on Standby" and "up to 380 mins talk time" referred to in their HD2 website specification especially as people like myself were experiencing the battery going flat in <24 hours with almost zero usage of the phone.
Here's their official reply.
Thank you for your email. The specifications that you have referenced are laboratory test conditions, and are not indicative of real-world performance, nor do they take into account the considerable drain incurred by the myriad services and programs that run as a matter of course on Windows Mobile 6.5, as well as any other background applications that may be running, which may not be readily apparent. Please be advised that these laboratory test figures are in line with EU regulations concerning the testing of mobile device batteries, and the real-world battery time that you have quoted of 20-24 hours is well within what we would expect of this device. We have recently released a large capacity battery for use with the HD2, and this can be purchased from the following link :- http://www.htcaccessorystore.com/uk/p_htc_item.aspx?i=195058
So in simple terms, we mislead you in our advertising and you'll be lucky to get the battery to last 24 hours. We can't fix it so buy a bigger battery!
What's the point in publishing performance data that has no relationship to "real-world" conditions. Most customers won't be using the phone in a laboratory.
Perhaps we should start a new campaign to get HTC to be more honest about "real-world" expectations.
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Click to collapse
What can i say........except that HTC should look in to the real world more often!

I use many phones, from htc, and from other company , my last two nokia phones was "business versions" with "everlasting" battery - first e65 least 40h , second - better version - only 22h ( e66) - it's normal - in this world

If HTC say it's a standard EU process, then perhaps we should campaign to get the EU standard changed as the current published figures give no indication of the phones real performance.
Don't get me wrong, I love the phone but I've never seen one like this go flat in such a short time when on standby.

i love how they say it lasts up to 490 hours on standby, but 24 hours is what they would expect
it's actually ridiculous how deceitful these companies are, we deserve better than this
it's not right that they lie right to our faces to what we are getting and how we have no rights
just not right.

I think we need a bit of a reality check here. I'm not especially inclined to defend HTC but they have a point about the stuff that may be running on the phone. Anyone who has tried some new toys must have encountered one that sucks the life out of the battery for no obvious reason - scale that down and extrapolate across a raft of apps that most of us here will have on our phones and you will get a host of variations in terms of battery life...which is exactly what we do get.
Secondly, as kilrah said, that's the way battery life is measured. Instead of whining about it we should treat it as a relative indicator against other phones because that's about all it is good for. I suspect most say 'up to...' in small letters in front of their stand by and talk times anyway.
If I were to buy a car because the specs say that it does 40 miles to the gallon I'd be a mug to expect it to do that when I'm thrashing down the motorway towing a trailer with the windows and sun roof open. But I might well buy it in preference to a car that claims 30 mpg because in the long run it will probably cost me less in running costs.
You pays your money and you takes your choice...I don't personally see any significant misrepresentation in this, but there may be a little end user misunderstanding?

Bobins24 said:
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No surprise here. I observed the same discrepancy on all my phones till now - Motorola, Nokia, Samsung, Siemens, Ericsson, Sony Ericsson, HTC.
Actually I use my phone a lot and I'm more than happy with its performance so far - huge and bright screen, powerful CPU... What are your expectations? 48 hours? A week?
If you think, this is something impressive, go and buy yourself a new monitor and then just measure the advertised contrast ratio - 10000:1 ? Seriously? In fact it is only 700:1. Nothing more to say.
Watch Out: Crazy Contrast Ratios

Exact. And especially on smartphones it's absolutely impossible for the manufacturer or a standards organisation to imagine how you will use your device.
If they can quote anything, it's stock configuration, open the box, put sim card in, press power on, enter your pin, put phone in standby, leave it there, note how long it lasts. That's all.
Knowing that you can do so many things on it, install so many programs that can do what they want to the phone, and that depending on usage the battery life can vary anywhere between 2 hours and 4 days it's totally impossible, by whatever means, to quote something realistic.

When you buy a WM device (or any other Lith-Ion device for that matter) you should know what to expect with regards to battery life, it's not rocket science.
Lithium-Ion batteries are poor, until battery technology is improved it's what we should have come to expect.

That's a bit simplistic, knowing that firstly there's nothing better yet, and secondly the good old phones we had that were lasting a whole week were also using the same batteries or even worse NiMH ones.
It's a combination of a lot of things.

battery life
I turned htc sense off on my phone and now the battery lasts 2-2.5 days with what i would deem reasonable use ie using the internet checking emails texting and 4 or 5 calls a day , if i turn sense back on the battery life drops to about 15 hours so i can live without sense !!! Im far more concerned about the speaker problems and pink photos than the battery )

kilrah said:
That's a bit simplistic, knowing that firstly there's nothing better yet, and secondly the good old phones we had that were lasting a whole week were also using the same batteries or even worse NiMH ones.
It's a combination of a lot of things.
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I assume you are replying to me?
After having 4 HTC devices, I didn't expect anything more from the HD2 than I got from the Wizard or my Kaiser or my Diamond, if anything it was obviously going to be poorer due to the huge screen, hardware and all the software I knew I would be using.

I think your best chance of getting their claimed hours would be by:
1. Completely charging the battery;
2. Use a bare-bone ROM with absolutely nothing installed
3. Switching off all radio signals.. (that is, put the phone in flight mode so that the phone is not transmitting like wireless, bluetooth or anything else at all...)
4. leaving the phone on standby with the screen off.
Of course, noone uses their phone like that, but HTC have used the term "up to" to protect themselves...
HTC would be stupid to change the way they rate their times since every other company is using the same method. I doubt anyone would want to buy a phone that says "Standby Up to 24hours" when every other phone has "Standby Up to 500hours" At best, the rated hours could be used as a comparison/indicator against other phones.

I'm celebrating two weeks into life with my HD2, and after suffering water damage with my HD which had no effect except to bring battery life down to 8 hours a day, I'm really pleased with my 24-28 hours of battery life.
On days I'm using it a lot, I expect 15 hours. However the other day I barely touched the phone (no calls, no music, no random turning on the screen) and I was on 65% after 24 hours, which I felt was good.
I agree with the OP, their quotes are a joke, but I don't look at specs, I look at reviewers to tell me "I expect a day's life from this phone" etc. when I choose a phone. With a screen this size I don't expect miracles, but again, it does feel like a blatant lie when they suggest the phone can sit for weeks without dying, and i give manufacturers (including HTC) no credit for being economical with the truth to their customers.

My SEX1 used to last a few hours more, having a smaller screen, larger battery, and less than half the processor. They specced same timings, as I said I got a few hours more. I doubt Iphone or any other manufacturer, will spec their device like, Standby time 24hrs, talk time 4 hrs. Who would buy such a device?
Anyway I didn't expect it to last any longer. Good thing is I'm in front of my pc for long hours, no harm in letting the phone plugged in.

Isn't draining the Li-Ion actually shortens the battery life?
I'm told that letting the battery get lower than 2.3v isn't a good thing.
Let the battery get low, but not low enough for auto-shutdown

It's called Business Opportunity
All companies all over the world is like HTC.
Whenever there is a problem, they will direct you to purchase something to "solve" the problem.
HD2 problem that we are facing is poor battery performance (if you enable non-Sense). "Solution" is to buy bigger capacity battery.
Problem : screen easily crack
HTC "solution" : tampered glass screen (if HTC would advertise...)
Problem : Screen too sensitive
HTC "solution" : special screen protector (if HTC would advertise...)
Problem : this, that, this , that,
HTC "solution" : you pay, we gain profit!
That's the real world scenario....
Conclusion : HTC = poor quality product(s) at expensive price.

rickyoon.vegas said:
I'm told that letting the battery get lower than 2.3v isn't a good thing.
Let the battery get low, but not low enough for auto-shutdown
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Auto forced shutdown is at 3.6V, which has a lot of margin not to cause damage.
HD2 problem that we are facing is poor battery performance (if you enable non-Sense). "Solution" is to buy bigger capacity battery.
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Sensible solution: if you want battery life of more than 1-2 days, do not get a smartphone, especially not one that has the fastest processor on the market and a 4.3" screen. And read reviews that will tell you "you'll get 1-2 days" and "it lasts just a bit more than an iphone". I.e. Educate yourself.
Problem : screen easily crack
HTC "solution" : tampered glass screen (if HTC would advertise...)
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Click to collapse
Sensible solution: Realise you have a large piece of GLASS in front of you, and take care of it as such. Don't drop it, don't sit on it,...
We know how the HD2 behaves. If you read a couple of reviews, you know too. If you now buy it and still complain, there's not much we, or HTC, can do for you.

Battery 'Life' tricks

I read about this on a professional site but cannot remember where. Here is what you do:
"To help with battery life you can do these steps EXACTLY:
1. Turn your device ON and CHARGE the device for 8 hours or more
2. UNPLUG the device and TURN the phone OFF and CHARGE for 1 hour
3. UNPLUG the device TURN ON and wait 2 minutes and then TURN OFF and CHARGE for another hour
Your battery life should double. We have tested this on our devices and other agents have seen a major difference as well"
I am still waiting for my phone but I will try this as soon as I get it. I am wondering if this trick applies only to new phones or not? If someone will like to test this please go ahead and give us some feedback. Thanks

no offence but can you tell me how you can charge the device which has been charging for 8 hours? to my knowledge, there are circuits that avoids over-charging in these kind of devices?

You got a point. Like I said, I took this off the net but cannot remember where.

Check out this article: http://blog.gsmarena.com/samsung-i9000-galaxy-s-full-battery-test-ready-–-up-with-the-best/

It's impossible to manage 84h on single charge Or it is possible when you charge phone to 100% then leave it on your desk and don't even touch it.

Im pretty sure I could get up to a week of battery if i didnt use the phone at all. Over night the battery drains 1% max.

rocketpaul said:
Im pretty sure I could get up to a week of battery if i didnt use the phone at all. Over night the battery drains 1% max.
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standby is quoted as 24-26 days. it's sick. screen on is what sucks the power (in addition to sync and background apps).

alovell83 said:
standby is quoted as 24-26 days. it's sick. screen on is what sucks the power (in addition to sync and background apps).
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for me, wifi uses up 65% of the power lol.

I like to ask, how long have you all had your phones? I think the longer or often you charge your phones the better the drainage power.

ive had mine for two weeks

Don't believe everything you read on the internet..
When I was working at an Apple Premium reseller, I nearly exploded with laughter every day at some of the ridiculous rumors I heard, which were obviously wrong to anyone who sold them, but plenty of major sites were reporting they were likely..
Even now, Kevin Rose (the genius who said that he had seen the iPhone and it had 2 batteries) is still saying crap (which 2 years after I left still seems wrong to me), and every site is STILL reporting it as fact.
A lot of the stuff you read on the internet is untrue. This might be a bit true because of battery calibration and such, but I honestly do question it..

andrewluecke said:
Don't believe everything you read on the internet..
When I was working at an Apple Premium reseller, I nearly exploded with laughter every day at some of the ridiculous rumors I heard, which were obviously wrong to anyone who sold them, but plenty of major sites were reporting they were likely..
Even now, Kevin Rose (the genius who said that he had seen the iPhone and it had 2 batteries) is still saying crap (which 2 years after I left still seems wrong to me), and every site is STILL reporting it as fact.
A lot of the stuff you read on the internet is untrue. This might be a bit true because of battery calibration and such, but I honestly do question it..
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Agreed. After all, if these ridiculous battery "tricks" worked at all, then the physics behind them would be built into the chargers by the manufacturers. Unless you think they are crippling the battery on purpose for no reason? Makes no sense.

The REAL low-down on "bat stats" and battery calibration

Apologies first -- I don't have the answer to the title of the thread. Rather, I'm posting this thread to (hopefully) get to the bottom of this whole matter, because there is just way, way too much floating around about this in way too many threads.
So, this is a request to the smarties out there, devs, engineers, et. al., to explain the precise, actual meaning and mechanism of "bat stats" on the Epic (and perhaps Android in general?).
So please, if you don't know with certainty about something related to this, don't post what you've heard, speculate, (informed) guess, etc. Let's keep this discussion to unquestionably known facts.
Here's what I do know as fact: Wiping Bat Stats in CWM does nothing more than delete a file in the /system filesystem (I don't remember the file atm, but someone else will surely speak up and fill in that detail). That's it. Nothing more.
This file is recreated and data written to it on subsequent boot.
That's all I know.
What I'd like to know, to complete the picture, is what is in this file, what this data means, how it's used by the device in managing the battery. If anyone knows the specific, actual specs and mechanism/algorithm for this, please explain.
After that, we can figure out, once and for all, what "calibrating" the battery means, and how best to do it. Further, it may be then as simple as keeping a copy of one's batstat file on their SD card, and simply putting it back after any reflash, obviating the need to go through some painful "calibration" procedure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery
There's no reason to "calibrate" a lithium battery. End of story.

mrzood said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery
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And that was helpful, and relevant, how?
This thread is not about LiION battery technology; it's about the Bat Stats functionality of the Epic 4G, the technical details of it, and how it applies to battery "calibration".
The underlying battery technology could be NiMH, and the questions would be the same.

What he linked is correct. You asked about battery stats and calibration. There is no need to, " Calibrate" a LION. However, I am interested in the battery stats. I use three different batteries with my phone and get different usages with each.
dwallersv said:
And that was helpful, and relevant, how?
This thread is not about LiION battery technology; it's about the Bat Stats functionality of the Epic 4G, the technical details of it, and how it applies to battery "calibration".
The underlying battery technology could be NiMH, and the questions would be the same.
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So calibration is a placebo? Apple suggests it just to appease the idiots?

mrzood said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery
There's no reason to "calibrate" a lithium battery. End of story.
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What this article mentions in one place is about "conditioning" the battery which is different. LiOn batteries should fully discharge and recharge with no "memory effect". In other words, you can run them half way down and recharge, or 99% of the way down and recharge and the battery should charge to the same total power.
However, what the original poster is talking about is the phone's battery "stats" - how it reads the battery to determine how much charge is left and reports "25% remaining" or whatever. That can absolutely be changed, because I have seen it get screwed up. For example, I flashed a ROM this fall (don't remember which at this point, and it probably does not matter) and I seemed to be getting amazing battery life. In the first 6 hours of having the phone on, it dropped only 25%, which was great for me. However, I went into a movie and when I came out about 2 hours later the phone was dead. The first 25% took 6 hours and the last 75% took approx 2 hours. THAT was a problem with the battery stats being screwed up.
However, exactly how that is determined is something I do not understand either...

You're actually calibrating the rom's battery stats and to the people splitting hairs about the term "calibrating battery" get over yourselves.

What I understand about this is you have a variable amount of amperage this is one value at full and another at empty (or as empty as android gets). It tracks this against runtine and I think a couple of other variables to determine overall capacity. Each Phone and battery are slightly different. So it is a file that tracks this and is used to determine % or capacity. The recalibration is usually done best by getting a full charge and wipeing battery stats then running it dead to set your full and empty points.
Not super technical but a decent quick answer I hope.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

Charge for first use?

Hi.
I've seen lots of advice in several different ways about charging new tech when you get it.
So I thought I'd try a poll to see what the general consensus is.
1) Charge until light is green before turning it on the first time?
2) Turn on without precharge, but then run completely flat before charging
3) It's a Li-ion battery and it makes no difference
Thanks

SnakeManJayd said:
Hi.
I've seen lots of advice in several different ways about charging new tech when you get it.
So I thought I'd try a poll to see what the general consensus is.
1) Charge until light is green before turning it on the first time?
2) Turn on without precharge, but then run completely flat before charging
3) It's a Li-ion battery and it makes no difference
Thanks
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Many people will tell you it doesnt matter but I know from experience that it does in fact make a difference. When I got my phone (mt4g) I starte using it right away without charging it, everything seemed fine I had an issue with the screen so I exchanged it and got a new one. This one I charged first for a few hours before even turning it on and it did make a difference. my battery seemed to be holding a charge for longer. When I got another battery I read they recommend charging it fully off for at least 8 hours then when you do power it on let it run down all the way. Do that for the first 5 charges and it will help your battery health in the long run.
Another example is my friend got two of the same phone one for him and one for his gf. He started using his as soon as he got out of the store, hers he charged for her because he didnt see her that night. He said the phones are pretty much set up identically, same software, same services running etc.. and he said her battery lasts noticeably longer than his

graffixnyc said:
Many people will tell you it doesnt matter but I know from experience that it does in fact make a difference.
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Thanks for the input. Ya, I have heard a lot of stories like yours.
And even if it doesn't always make a difference, it's only 8 hours, so it should be worth it just to make sure, but when you've been waiting since January for an android tablet and you finally get one in April, 8 hours is forever. ha ha
Thanks

Oh, I suppose another related question is how much is fully charged? Apparently modern devices have a current regulator or something in them that stops it from charging past 95% or something? Not sure on specifics, but from what I've read. You can't charge it passed when the green light comes on anyway?
Anyone know more on this?

SnakeManJayd said:
Oh, I suppose another related question is how much is fully charged? Apparently modern devices have a current regulator or something in them that stops it from charging past 95% or something? Not sure on specifics, but from what I've read. You can't charge it passed when the green light comes on anyway?
Anyone know more on this?
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Many new batteries will charge to 90% or 95%, then display the light as "fully charged". They will continue to to charge to 100%, drain back down to 90%, and back and forth in order to not stick at full 100% (aka charging over night).
That being said I've heard a lot of talk about conditioning smartphone batteries etc. and for the most part I haven't seen a lot of evidence to prove that it is necessary. Lithium Ion batteries really don't need conditioning or anything as much as you'd think... that's really an old NiCad thing to do.

I did not charge mine when i first got it, the battery was already at 90% about and i simply used it for a day and a half and now i'm charging it for the first time. i regularly get new electronics devices and i never have better problems personally. battery tech has come up a ways in the last few years.

It's well known by now the Li-ion batteries do better with short, more frequent charges. It is not a good idea to run it down until dead. These batteries also do not have a "memory."

Placebo and old habits keep this myth around.
Sent from my Xoom

I got my Xoom wifi and plugged it in and turned it on. Couldn't wait any longer.
It's an awesome tablet and the battery lasts all day, with constant wifi and playing.
Thanks for the advice guys

MikeyMike01 said:
Placebo and old habits keep this myth around.
Sent from my Xoom
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Well said. Alas, no matter what a sound scientific methods proves some people just won't listen...

I used it right out of the box and have no issued

Thanks for posting this - timely reminder to check up on the latest info on li-ion batteries (given I will be getting my xoom tomorrow).
Here is a summary on lithium ion:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Appreciate if anyone finds other links that explain it even better but are also as reliable.

I thought of this thread. It's for N1 but if you have some spare time, tons of information in that thread...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765609&highlight=battery+calibration

Thoughts... Phone (not Rom) with best Battery life!!

My bosses are due for an upgrade and i have been reading everything under the sun about which smartphone has the best battery life... problem is, every website has different results if any on battery life. I realize that big screens and quad-core are all the buzz, but the HTC inspire that one of my bosses has, is a battery hog. We have tried everything to get more life out of the phone, new batteries, multiple batteries and nothing seems to help. The one with the HTC is a power user. Texting and calling around the clock. I would like to get him another HTC with the same screen size because he is used to it. Any ideas/websites would be appreciated. I have read too many reviews and battery life seems to be an afterthought with most reviewers. I like to see test results and comparasions on battery life but so far i have not seen any good ones.
thanks in advance!

I'd recommend looking for a phone where and extended battery is an option - or having multiple batteries to switch in and out (or, following that, multiple extended batteries to switch in and out).
I don't think any phone out there really has abnormally good battery life - if you're a power user you need to find another solution like an extended battery or power pack or something.
I've gone with multiple stock-size batteries for myself. I feel like it's reasonable for the device to not last all day - there's a lot to power there so I don't mind the one minute or so that it takes to exchange for a fresh battery - and the spent one can charge while the next one is being used so that you don't even need to plug the phone itself into a wall.

The Samsung Galaxy Note II has been getting very good feedback from a battery life standpoint.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Looking for a phone that has a battery that has the biggest Ah spec is a good starting point. Also, most android phone reviews include a battery test, but you should only compare reviews of different phones on the same site, as each site probably uses a different testing method to see how long the battery lasts. I don't know if there are any phones that have a lithium-polymer battery instead of a lithium-ion, but li-po batteries have higher energy densities (that should reflect itself in the Ah spec).

GSMArena has set up their own standard for testing battery life. For the average they include 1h of calling, browsing and video playback (all separate and the rest of the time is on standby) if I remember correctly, that way they get fair testing conditions for different phones (some are better for browsing, some for calling, diffrent platforms etc). They also include battery life for browsing, video and some other activities seperately. To me their tests are quite nicely standardized and thought through.
Searching from the biggest capacities is also a great idea, GSMArena has a new search field, which lets you to search according to battery capacity.
I'm not totally sure if they have a certain page for maintaining their battery test or if they have them somewhere on the phones info page, but I would start looking for them through the search or from the blog part of their webpage!
Best of luck!

Thanks for the replies i appreciate them.
I will check out GSMArena

alliktaavo said:
GSMArena [...] has a new search field, which lets you to search according to battery capacity.
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This sounds great to me... I don't noticed this even if I've surfing it from a while... Thanks for the advice.

Puskash said:
This sounds great to me... I don't noticed this even if I've surfing it from a while... Thanks for the advice.
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No problem. Glad I could help! Only thing that I would like to find are the overall rankings of their endurance test result. AFAIK it doesnt't excist, but hopefully Iäm just blind
Also sent them a letter that it would be good for something like that to excist, but haven't gotten an answer so far, doubt I'll get one.

S3
Just get a Samsung Galaxy SIII with a ZeroLemon 7,000mAh battery for 3 days of use. They're out of stock on Amazon atm, but they should be getting some in stock soon they told me. For any phone your boss gets, go for a Gorilla gadgets extended battery.

Some years ago, phones used to have a battery life that lasted days even when under heavy text and calling activity. Nowadays, those little devices have been increasing their capabilities beyond the advances in battery technology.
I don't choose my phones thinking on battery life, I'm ready with USB cables and charges at home, my car and soon enough on my bike!

The phone with the best battery life is the Motorola RAZR MAXX (on ICS or later) by a long shot. It beats all the competitors by far.
The Motorola RAZR MAXX has old specifications, but it's not too bad. It's still better than my iPhone 4s; and you could argue the iPhone 5 too. The Motorola will still handle all your daily tasks no problem.
Here is a battery test on the RAZR MAXX: http://blog.gsmarena.com/motorola-razr-maxx-battery-life-is-complete-makes-chargers-feel-lonely/