Related
Hello,
I guess most of the People flashing WP7 on their HD2 do not have a WP7 License.
And by activating Windows Live services Microsoft gets to know your name, phone number, e-mail adress...
May Microsoft know that you do not own a WP7 device but only flashed it to your HD2?
Does nobody here believe that Microsoft could try to stop people flashing the Rom by using all legal steps possible?
What could happen? How are the possibilities for it to happen/not to happen?
What do you think?
i worried about that ...but i gave all fake information to microsft ...
I doubt microsoft would spend the time and money going after individual users just for using wp7 on their hd2. If anything, they will try to find a fix in their system to know if you have a genuine device or not and stop it from working, and I hear they have already sent a letter to a member of the dft team, which is why I don't think they officially released the rom here on xda. But it wouldn't be worth it for them to legally go after us end users... especially since we basically are using the key we got from them so we can buy apps from their app store, which is putting money in their pockets.
I doubt Microsoft will act on this. Sure, they might take some steps to make future updates more difficult to port or activate, but I doubt they will take legal action against the people running the OS.
For Microsoft, people running WP7 and activating Live services on their HD2 might even be a source of income, since they can buy stuff on the Market Place. I'm pretty sure they will conveniently count all LEO7 users the next time they brag about WP7's market share
Still, handset manufacturers will probably be less happy. If you can run WP7 on your HD2, there's not much incentive to buy a new phone with practically the same hardware just for the OS.
What could happen?
Maybe Microsoft will bring hundreds of users to trial and sentence them to death
No seriously, just imagine the huge effort to get a single user not to use the DFT WPH. This also would most probably result in bad newspaper articles against M$.
WPH is a thing were in my opinion ms should stop trying to be better or harder than appple and finding a middle-way between android and, you know, jailPhone.
Ah, back on topic.. i think nothing serious will happen, maybe ms tries to talk to the devs like they did with chevronWP7, but you wont be sentenced to death nor go to jail or something...
by using a pirate windows, M$ can know more info about you (even your naked foto), but have you ever heared someone be charged with pirate windows with no commercial use?
M/S could use legal action about copywrite theft but it would do is put someone already using a WinMo phone and trying to use a WP7 phone from leaving M/S forever. That would mean quite a few HD2 folks, when deciding about their next phone would blank out M/S.
M/S want WP7 to be a big success and the only way it will be big is if it gets a load of apps developed for it. And the only way it will get the iphone and android developers to make a WP7 app is if there is a big market for it. Now if M/S quote the number of WP7 phones that have been sold they will get a lot lot less than the number of activation licences for WP7 - now what number do you think M/S would want to broadcast? Yes they could exaggerate the number, but the real figure would get out.
Since Apple get a proportion of any apps sold, then no doubt M/S would go along the same lines, and this money would more than make up for the development costs.
The WP7 market share is well below ipohne o/s, Android, Symbian and Blackberry.
There are several possibilities... I think one thing is for sure: soon, they'll stop giving keys without IMEI or proof of purchase. I doubt they just ignore the issue, thinking of apps sales.
The lightest thing they'll do is ban all the keys given since yesterday. Some legit folks will be affected, but they just have to contact Microsoft. Microsoft might try to reach customers who asked for a key, so they confirm the possession of a legit WP7 device.
Can MS have access to the HD2 IMEI? Can they "ban" something besides being able to enter the Market?
If we consider lawsuits, a question arises: will they sue everyone who asked for a key or only those who've used it? Lawyers are expensive, but they are filthy rich!
So now we have a panic room in XDA.
Why are people afraid ? Did you still your HD2? Did you still your key? Will the LiVe services give you ilegitm money or pay app for free?
No I'm not a tief, I just ask a key that allowed that I can try a new WM SO on my WM Device I have just payed the license.
And MS have said to us, we can't have WP7S because of 3 keys issues, but now MS can be glad because we solve that issue for their.....it was MS that could pay some money for our development.
Comeone have you or no a WM Device, with licenses payed when you buy the HD2? I think yes, because I pay a lot of money for my HD2 WM Device.
An Alternative View...
I can understand why some are worrying about this but MS tend to go after larger organisations and even then have been known to be surprisingly reasonable - certainly when compared to the Adobe and Oracle sharks - providing people are trying to true up.
So I doubt they would go after individuals - if they were that litigious there is no way they would dish out activation codes without a few checks and balances.
But here's the other view; up until about 24 hours ago I hated WP7 with a passion. it seemed like a half-assed retrograde step from 6.5.5 and I was sore at MS for selling out to the Apple business model.
I don't eat humble pie too often, but I'm just about to - WP7 is pretty good and it may even be a keeper. It's lively, reasonably good fun and works quite nicely. I even think that Marketplace is as good as and perhaps even better than the App Store - I was surprised how many apps it had, including good quantities of free ones and although App Store must have more, many of them are utter rubbish. The fact that Marketplace lets you try before you buy is a massive plus and should allow users to filter out the rubbish.
Had it not been possible to get the phone activated and were it not for the good XDA-ers (and others) who have helped to unlock the device I wouldn't even have tried it, but when most of one's personal objections are removed, it becomes worth a look at least. My only major gripe at present is the lack of a decent Sat Nav.
So whether they meant to or not, MS have probably ensured that my next device will be a WP7 device and I would have said there was more chance of me eating my own face than doing that up until very recently. And that's without the money I have spent at Marketplace today and what I will spend in future.
Sense on the part of MS - unlikely. Coincidence and a loophole that will be closed soon - probably. Humble pie for tea? Definitely.
well Microsoft UK have stopped giving out codes and ask you to call HTC instead. i cant see Microsoft proceeding with legal as it would seem to be more hassle. i think they will start asking for more information about your phone when you ask for a code
IMO, why would they go so far as to go after individual users??? I believe they might contact DFT at the most. I mean, dont they want as much consumers using and experiencing their OS as possible, suscribing to Zune? Purchasing their apps???? I mean they should see this as more users getting to know and love WP7 and attracting more developers (since a lot of people hacking to these measures might be devs.) And maybe it will lead to users wanting a WP7 device as their next phone after being so pleased with the experience on their HD2... I mean, i doubt this would put a dent on WP7 sales overall since we are such a small # of users doing this. Just make it harder to get the code, and publically say "that they dont encourage/reccomend this and to get a real WP7 device yadda yadda yadda..."
Plus, we already have a license to use one of their OS's (WM6.5) so i bet they can be a bit more easy on us than to say... a port to an Android device
just a thought...
Didn't we already have a topic like this?
I think we got enough of an answer here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10601038&postcount=16
how legal/illegal this might be I am of the belief that microsoft is smart enough to not waste money by going after all us individuals. I do believe that they might try to block us from using wp7 by applying new securityfeatures just like apple does with jailbreak though As said previously MS just stopped giving out keys in the UK and even though they would try to check then your phone would show up as a HD7. If they dig deeper they may be able to see that you really do not own a HD7, but again i do not believe they are willing to spend that much time.
Danation said:
Didn't we already have a topic like this?
I think we got enough of an answer here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10601038&postcount=16
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good enough for me if thats the case LMAO
May be we should try to write the public letter to Microsoft with request to give us a possibility to buy a license for wp7? Why they allow to upgrade XP to W7 and don't allow to upgrade WM6.5->WP7?
Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
I think option 1.
would go for option 1.
only marketshare that would go up is web browser marketshare... they do not sell more phones this way.
what could be a fourth option is that microsoft actually uses the XDA community to test every security system in their OS for loopholes and bugs in an early stage so they can fix all that (without having to look for the problems theirselves) and make sure people are unable to hack their OS when the OS goes into a more complete and final form as the OS is now only in 7.0 and not even released globally.
still option 1 is more likely. they possibly do not have a database with all s/n or imei numbers for all (sold) wp7 phones so they are unable to check.
aenedor said:
I think option 1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its Option 1. I remember reading on their support site that on some cases that the verification fails (the did not mention the possible reasons) on any windows phone out of the box.
homer.web said:
...
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely #1. When I called technical support, it seemed like the woman I talked with had done this before and she knew exactly what I was talking about. She asked if I was using WP7 and when I said yes, she even said "Oh, well that's why you need an activation code." I think I read somewhere that even if you're using a WP7 device, doing a hard reset on the phone would cause you to need a new activation code, so it's not out of the ordinary for them to receive calls about it I suppose.
#3 is something I'm a bit worried about in the back of my mind, but the thing is my phone identifies itself as an HD7, so I'm not sure if MS would be able to tell it wasn't. I also don't think it's worth their time and money to look into the issue since in the bigger picture, the amount of users who haven't bought an "offical" WP7 device is relatively small I would think. Another thing is they're now getting money from me, since while I have absolutely no interest in buying a new WP7 device, I'm now buying apps/games and will probably buy some music through Zune (really digging the software).
I don’t think there is a downside for MS at the moment. From what I understand, the HD2 is one of the few (last gen) phones capable of running WP7 and the more people that use WP7 the sooner that apps that are popular for other OS's will be created for WP. More money for MS but more importantly, quicker adoption by the general public because the marketplace will quickly catch up with Apple and Droid.
From my limited use of WP7, it’s a great addition. Different thinking in its design but a distinct lack of business and productivity tools in the marketplace is going to hold me back from a using this as my daily OS.
Not a bad thought
I say #1 for sure, though i fear #3 to be honest ;-)
I am highly impressed with Windows Phone 7, and Microsoft may have realized that someone like me may make a WP7 device their next phone purchase.
1 and 2, please not 3.
It's obviously 1 as there have been several actual WP7 handsets needing activation also - that said, there is nothing stopping them from killing all the HD2 codes at any given time. The IMEI still identifies the phone as a HD2 rather than an HD7 so whenever they feel the need...
They could also go as far as banning your Live account from any future access to Zune and Xbox Live due to this - both the one used on your phone and the one you [may have] given them during your phonecall.
I was thinking #2, but i'm reading more and more people now not getting codes. therefore i guess it's #1.
will be very interesting to see what happens when the update comes along. ?will you dare to try it? will marketplace and apps stop working even if you don't install it?
Why should MS actually have a problem with 5 to 10 000 enthusiats that are flashing WP7 on their HD2's? I don't think that will affect sales of new WP7 phones as the HD2 is not produced anymore anyway.
ill take number 3 for 500.00 Alex kidding
I truly believe MS is going to lock us out from Live services similar to the same issue the xbox 360 with a custom FW have,they do a massive band of xbox 360 systems from xbox live service a couple of times a year.
Although we are not pirating any games such in the case of xbox 360 flashed with custom firmware (and yes some people are going to say some use their flashed xbox 360 to backup their games I truly don't care, save it for your mama) just modifying our phones but it seems to me as one way for them to screw us over.
1 & 2 & - I fear - even 3
homer.web said:
Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know that Microsoft and HTC along with the rest of them actually read everything posted on these XDA forms.
Why did HTC stop giving out sd cards when everybody started saying there cards were faulty!
Think about it!!!!!!
Russ
Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?
TheOnly1 said:
Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct. You have hit the nail on the head. HTC & Microsoft like what the XDA Devs do with these ROMs, as it will enhance them to produce better ones. Just think back a few months, they were going to release the wp7 update for the HD2. And then not? Why.. Probably to see if the Devs could do a hack. Also why would microsoft make some tools available to enhance these ROMs. Yes you are correct, they like what's being accomplished.
Its the same with the activation keys, they now have none stop requests!! But they will issue them. Will have to wait and see if the new update works, or crashes it?? I will give it a try.
Russ
A 'carphone warehouse' insider has informed me that they recieved a bulliten stating that some batches of HTC phones were shipped prior to being activated by MS.
MS apparently have a list of new activation numbers for these handsets but may not have a record of any IMEI numbers etc (he wasn't sure how much they knew about the handsets)
Basically it seems that authentication will also fail on some original HTC WP7 handsets (like the HD7) so MS are prepared to issue those with new activation numbers.
Personally, when I gave my IMEI for my HD2 to get the activation code I changed the last 3 digits and they still said 'ah..yes it's a HTC phone, is that correct?', so might be a good idea to base a made up IMEI on a real one.
The way I see it:
This community and the readers are the one who have spent their time to make their phone compatible with Microsoft so they can use MICROSOFT more. They are saving Microsoft marketing money and expanding its share and generate revenue through apps for them.
Microsoft has always been smart with this. They let the piracy of Windows in ASIA to slit through on basis of expansion of market share. Microsoft should know better than anybody else, why most of the planet use windows,
Microsoft has got the label of M$ but in all fairness, they have been nice considering the power and their dominance. They have special discounts for students, their OS provides the opportunity for people to build any system they want at very very affordable costs.
Their Windows Mobile 7 app development kit virtually has made it simple for app developers to develop apps and make money.
(obviously, they win but at the same time, reduces the production budget for start up folks)
I bought 4 copies of Windows 7 PRO x64 through student discount. Who else would give me so much discount to enable me to buy so many fantastic products?
sorry for the rant and fanboyism. I thought it was justified.
ever thought that maybe they don't know about the hd2 running wp7, my friend had to contact ms for activation for his hd7...
I love my HD2, as does every one else in this forum after all, that's why we are all here. I mean i have a phone which within 30 minutes i can have any one of 4 different operating systems and each one with lots of lovely flavours. what's not to like?
This is the kind of customer i am; i like choice.
This type of customer knows how to install new phones and install custom firmwares. Thing is that this type of customer, i.e. Me, is also a prolific spender of online goods and services. I pay for a web host and remote file storage. i pay for my online music (though mine is very specialised so not from itunes!) and movies. i spend a small fortune on Xbox live arcade and PSN.
I am also a developer and write Visual basic, linq and oracle SQL apps for my employer as well as for my self.
Now here comes the problem. I have a HD2 and i have a choice of android, Wp 6.5 and Wp7 (we will leave out windows 98 as thats not much use on the phone for daily use). If i install Win 6.5 my phone is dead, no nice apps and a clunky interface. If i install android i get a fully functioning phone with access to the market place and i have already spent quite a bit in there on apps and games for an OS that i may not even use in future. If i install WP7 i get the basics but microsoft actually STOP me from giving them money and buying apps and games.
This seems daft in 3 ways
1) i want to buy apps and games but they are stopping me from giving them money
2) I can get the games via pirate methods but as a software writer, thats not the game i am in; fair program = fair payment.
3) i am due to upgrade in 3-4 months and at that time i have to decide whether i stick with my HD2 or upgrade to an android phone or a Win 7 phone; if i have invested all my money in android and begun developing on that handset then i will not buy a WP7 device, no matter what comes in the next update.
Way i look at it microsoft are being silly about this, android do not limit what i can purchase from their marketplace, legit phone or not.
Now in times of old, microsoft could ignore us as we make up 0.5% of the customer base and, with pirating, make up 0% of the companies income. But times change and now we are a resource, Modern phones generate income well after they have been sold via downloads and as a developer of (admittedly basic) apps i am some one microsoft might want on board. Microsoft is going to drive a significant wedge of its customer base away (aside from the horror stories i have heard regarding app submission, 1+ month for a revision?) and once the slide starts towards android, microsoft will not be able to stop it.
Now i cannot ring up microsoft and start to ask for codes and give in fake details as that is not who i am and my hotmail account is my developer account. On the other hand i have a little money and i am happy to purchase a licence for this phone from microsoft or HTC to enable WP7 on this device, but how do we get them to do this? plus windows phone 7 is hacked onto the HD2, deal with it or lose that whole segment of customers.
Way i see it if i prepare a carefully constructed letter and email it to them and i get the YTS kid, nothing is going to happen. If on the other hand we know some one higher up who can look at this then i`m happy to discuss with them.
Now i know this will do nothing and i know microsoft will just say `buy a new phone` or 'Its down to HTC' but i am not looking to pirate the phone i am looking to be legitimate. If they only want to drive me to pirate stuff to test the phone and develop for it then i`ll just choose to go with android and spend my cash there.
Well that was a bit annoying to read m8, please try and use proper paragraphs.
You have some very valid points there but I just dont think that M$ are going to go back on what they have said and start supporting unofficial roms. If they was going to do that they would simply release an official rom which I just cant see them doing as HTC would potentially be pissed of as they would have far less people buying the HD7.
just look the forum about the problems with the shipped sd card...
unsupported device is unsupported, at the moment they dont block, so be happy it works anyway but dont expect support from ms (support is not cheap).
Microsoft gave me a key no problem. I've been buying apps on the app store no problem. They just asked me is the phone a HTC, which it is. If I were you I wouldn't bother writing a letter until they say they will be blocking HD2 running WP7.
I'll be upgrading to WP7 when the new batch of high spec WP7 comes out but for now I love running WP7 on my HD2.
As the poster above has pointed out the problem with SD cards. Can you imagine what would happen if Microsoft said the would support the HD2. Thousands of people would be complaining that there SD cards don't work which causes numerous problems with the OS. Thats just one of many other differences. The DFT has done an amazing job and I think Microsoft will leave us HD2 users alone.
If you want to learn a little bit more about the SD card problems, read the link below. It will explain alot
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/17/windows-phone-7s-microsd-mess-the-full-story-and-how-nokia-ca/
This type of customer knows how to install new phones and install custom firmwares
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just look at all the problems "This type of customer is having", if it was so easy (which it is) why is "This type of customer" having so many problems? Oh and for everyone 1 of those "This type of customer" there's 10 of those "That type of customer"
dutchtrance said:
I love my HD2, as does every one else in this forum after all, that's why we are all here. I mean i have a phone which within 30 minutes i can have any one of 4 different operating systems and each one with lots of lovely flavours. what's not to like?
This is the kind of customer i am; i like choice.
This type of customer knows how to install new phones and install custom firmwares. Thing is that this type of customer, i.e. Me, is also a prolific spender of online goods and services. I pay for a web host and remote file storage. i pay for my online music (though mine is very specialised so not from itunes!) and movies. i spend a small fortune on Xbox live arcade and PSN.
I am also a developer and write Visual basic, linq and oracle SQL apps for my employer as well as for my self.
Now here comes the problem. I have a HD2 and i have a choice of android, Wp 6.5 and Wp7 (we will leave out windows 98 as thats not much use on the phone for daily use). If i install Win 6.5 my phone is dead, no nice apps and a clunky interface. If i install android i get a fully functioning phone with access to the market place and i have already spent quite a bit in there on apps and games for an OS that i may not even use in future. If i install WP7 i get the basics but microsoft actually STOP me from giving them money and buying apps and games.
This seems daft in 3 ways
1) i want to buy apps and games but they are stopping me from giving them money
2) I can get the games via pirate methods but as a software writer, thats not the game i am in; fair program = fair payment.
3) i am due to upgrade in 3-4 months and at that time i have to decide whether i stick with my HD2 or upgrade to an android phone or a Win 7 phone; if i have invested all my money in android and begun developing on that handset then i will not buy a WP7 device, no matter what comes in the next update.
Way i look at it microsoft are being silly about this, android do not limit what i can purchase from their marketplace, legit phone or not.
Now in times of old, microsoft could ignore us as we make up 0.5% of the customer base and, with pirating, make up 0% of the companies income. But times change and now we are a resource, Modern phones generate income well after they have been sold via downloads and as a developer of (admittedly basic) apps i am some one microsoft might want on board. Microsoft is going to drive a significant wedge of its customer base away (aside from the horror stories i have heard regarding app submission, 1+ month for a revision?) and once the slide starts towards android, microsoft will not be able to stop it.
Now i cannot ring up microsoft and start to ask for codes and give in fake details as that is not who i am and my hotmail account is my developer account. On the other hand i have a little money and i am happy to purchase a licence for this phone from microsoft or HTC to enable WP7 on this device, but how do we get them to do this? plus windows phone 7 is hacked onto the HD2, deal with it or lose that whole segment of customers.
Way i see it if i prepare a carefully constructed letter and email it to them and i get the YTS kid, nothing is going to happen. If on the other hand we know some one higher up who can look at this then i`m happy to discuss with them.
Now i know this will do nothing and i know microsoft will just say `buy a new phone` or 'Its down to HTC' but i am not looking to pirate the phone i am looking to be legitimate. If they only want to drive me to pirate stuff to test the phone and develop for it then i`ll just choose to go with android and spend my cash there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What? Do you think Microsoft and HTC do not read these posts? Well you have just told them all. As soon as you post anything in XDA its read by these people...
OK, I think that there is a general grasp on how to get WP7 running on our HD2's.
I am OK with the risk of bricking the hardware but I do have a concern that seems to be getting glossed over here.
What I want to know is what do you guys think is the chance of, and nature of any backlash from MS from essentially lying to get an activation code?
I have had my live ID, with all its related stuff - zune, etc. for a long time and fear the risk of loosing that more than the possibility of breaking a phone.
The simple answer is to just go buy an HD7, but that is expensive, and I have a perfectly good HD2 right here.
anyway... what do you guys see as the actual risks involved with obtaining and using the activation codes?
we all go to hell (is in the fairy tale book aka the bible)
There's a big debate about this you can read along here
The least they would do if the found a way to detect non-HD7 phones would be to close your live account for breach of T&C's.
I very much doubt that they would bring any legal action against the people who got the codes as there would be far too many people plus it would be very bad for PR and customers if they was to start suing people who wanted to use WP7.
All I would expect to happen is..
a) Lose live account.
b) Lose activation on phone.
Plus this relies on whether..
a) Microsoft find a way to detect the non-HD7's
b) If they decide to revoke activation at all.
TheBeak said:
OK, I think that there is a general grasp on how to get WP7 running on our HD2's.
I am OK with the risk of bricking the hardware but I do have a concern that seems to be getting glossed over here.
What I want to know is what do you guys think is the chance of, and nature of any backlash from MS from essentially lying to get an activation code?
I have had my live ID, with all its related stuff - zune, etc. for a long time and fear the risk of loosing that more than the possibility of breaking a phone.
The simple answer is to just go buy an HD7, but that is expensive, and I have a perfectly good HD2 right here.
anyway... what do you guys see as the actual risks involved with obtaining and using the activation codes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you have just told them..Have you. They read these posts. They are not hidden from the world..
But we have not Lied. I have wp7 I told them that and they gave me the code. It does not matter about what the outside of my mobile look like. Its the engine that's running it..So what if the shell of my mobile looks like a HD2? Who cares, MS dont. they are making money from the marketplace every day, and there profits is going back up.
Thats Business.
So think before you print in XDA forms, or read them all first.
I didn't lie and didn't feel that I should have had to. I said I have a htc windows phone and when I enter my windows live id and password it says to get an activation code which it did. I think people are acting as if they stole something when they didn't. Microsoft didn't upgrade the HD2 because it was going to "COST" them and because they wanted to have this "NEW PHONE" to promote. I don't really think they care now that it is on the HD2. It is good for business to have more users and I will even go on record saying that they will offer HD2 users WP7 with some form of disclaimer in the very near future now that it has been proven that it can be done.
If you go to the market and get free apps or buy apps that's good for their business. We all bought "Windows Mobile phones, and we are "NOT" stealing the software we are buying it. It is not like we are using a none Windows mobile phone. I really don't think they are going to track down people who bought Windows Mobile phones and sue them. That would be really, really bad for business to do that.
"Do you actually think they would prefer that we go back to Android, their competition, Seriously?" I don't.
Uh oh, I just got some information from a friend that works at Harte-Hanks here in town (MS uses them for customer service calls), that the codes generated won't be completely redacted but based on the phone number given on the support call, it will be cross-checked with the service provider based on the device reported by the cell service provider and information linked by your Windows Live ID. Those with an invalid device not corresponding with what's being reported by the provider (if they co-operate by releasing your info) should expect to receive a letter from Microsoft's legal counsel for committing fraud to obtain an activation code for Windows Phone 7.
It sounds like what DirecTV tried to with people who bought programmers/unloopers for the satellite H/HU cards back in the day and threaten everyone with legal action, but they could not prove what your intention with the programmer was. Except in this case, if you called in for a key you purposefully tried to deceive Microsoft if you were trying to activate live services. If you have your actual address and contact information in your Windows Live ID, I'd change it right away. My friend says all calls are recorded, they just selectively choose which to listen to if they need to go back. Just a warning for you all trying to get a key and take this information with a grain of salt, but I don't have any reason to doubt what my friend is saying.
DanielNTX said:
Uh oh, I just got some information from a friend that works at Harte-Hanks here in town (MS uses them for customer service calls), that the codes generated won't be completely redacted but based on the phone number given on the support call, it will be cross-checked with the service provider based on the device reported by the cell service provider and information linked by your Windows Live ID. Those with an invalid device not corresponding with what's being reported by the provider (if they co-operate by releasing your info) should expect to receive a letter from Microsoft's legal counsel for committing fraud to obtain an activation code for Windows Phone 7.
It sounds like what DirecTV tried to with people who bought programmers/unloopers for the satellite H/HU cards back in the day and threaten everyone with legal action, but they could not prove what your intention with the programmer was. Except in this case, if you called in for a key you purposefully tried to deceive Microsoft if you were trying to activate live services. If you have your actual address and contact information in your Windows Live ID, I'd change it right away. My friend says all calls are recorded, they just selectively choose which to listen to if they need to go back. Just a warning for you all trying to get a key and take this information with a grain of salt, but I don't have any reason to doubt what my friend is saying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Except in the case of the DirecTV they were STEALING the channels/premium boxing payperview events etc (I know this for a fact since a cousin of mine was messing around with the HU cards for a while). IF we were using the activation code to some how download pay apps as well as music for free off the Zune Marketplace then I can understand why they would go after people. But all you're doing is activating a service that lets you used their marketplace for apps/games and other services etc.
Same story with custom firmware on some xbox 360's. Why haven't they sue a single soul for doing it besides banning people off xbox live? that's as far as Microsoft have gone with that issue.
Thanks for the warning but your friend is over exaggerating.
In the DirecTV case, people were being sued for buying security card programmers without proof of them actually using them to STEAL satellite services.
DanielNTX said:
Those with an invalid device not corresponding with what's being reported by the provider (if they co-operate by releasing your info) should expect to receive a letter from Microsoft's legal counsel for committing fraud to obtain an activation code for Windows Phone 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They could be compelled to cooperate, but don't think for a moment your carrier is going to willingly start turning over records in an effort to nuke their own (sometimes highly valued) customers. Not gonna happen.
Cool scary story tho bro.
I'm just saying be careful here because MS will have information tied to you and what you are trying to do if you decide to do it.
From the http://www.directvdefense.org/ website:
What to do if you've been threatened by DirecTV
A number of folks have been writing or calling EFF asking what to do if they receive a letter from DirecTV when they have never pirated its signal. EFF does not give out legal advice in these circumstances and cannot represent any DirecTV defendants at this time, but there are a few things one might consider doing in this situation:
1) Take the threat seriously. DirecTV is likely to continue to go after you if you just ignore their letters or lawsuits.
2) Consider contacting a lawyer, preferably one with some experience in these cases and admitted in the federal court district where you live. We've compiled a list of attorneys currently taking DirecTV cases.
3) Collect all evidence you can think of to support your innocence. If there are emails, source code, schematics, bills, receipts, or other written documents that show you did not order, receive, or use the device in the letter, you will need those to substantiate your case. Also, if you did order the device but for a different purpose, consider talking to anyone who might have witnessed such uses and could testify on your behalf.
4) Document your use of cable or satellite systems. If you did not have a DirecTV satellite dish or set-top box during the time when you supposedly had the accused device, that will help your case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just saying be careful. Even Pocketnow says the same thing essentially:
Now, a couple of things are going on here that should convince you to never, ever try this (if Microsoft doesn't catch on like ten minutes ago and shut this thing down): first of all, you're possibly committing multiple crimes by procuring and using these PVK's, and if that doesn't bother you, then perhaps you'll be dissuaded by the fact that Microsoft can tie these keys to individual handsets (not to mention the personal info you gave up to get the rare 25-character code). In other words, not only do we not condone this sort of activity, we're actively suggesting that you stay far away from such serious fraud.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mr_brew said:
I didn't lie and didn't feel that I should have had to. I said I have a htc windows phone and when I enter my windows live id and password it says to get an activation code which it did. I think people are acting as if they stole something when they didn't. Microsoft didn't upgrade the HD2 because it was going to "COST" them and because they wanted to have this "NEW PHONE" to promote. I don't really think they care now that it is on the HD2. It is good for business to have more users and I will even go on record saying that they will offer HD2 users WP7 with some form of disclaimer in the very near future now that it has been proven that it can be done.
If you go to the market and get free apps or buy apps that's good for their business. We all bought "Windows Mobile phones, and we are "NOT" stealing the software we are buying it. It is not like we are using a none Windows mobile phone. I really don't think they are going to track down people who bought Windows Mobile phones and sue them. That would be really, really bad for business to do that.
"Do you actually think they would prefer that we go back to Android, their competition, Seriously?" I don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way I see it, the OS WP7 is an intelectual property rights. It is protected by law and it is not an open source.
You have to buy the software (WP7) to use that. It doesnt matter in which handset you use it, htc, samsung, etc.
Just like XP, Win7, etc, you buy the software to use legally. You can buy the branded PC (Acer, HP, Asus, etc), and you can also assemble a PC, but you still have to buy the software/os (XP, Win 7, etc)
So, it is not about using your HD2 for any other OS (WP7), but it is about using the software (WP7) which is legally protected as an intelectual property rights.
It doesnt mean I support microsoft. The fact is that I use WP7 on my HD2
Peace....
mr_brew said:
We all bought "Windows Mobile phones, and we are "NOT" stealing the software we are buying it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well we all actually bought Windows Mobile 6.5 software phones, but not Windows Phone 7 software.
It's like saying because you bought Windows for Workgroups 3.11 back in the 90's entitles you to all workstation versions of Windows. This could be true if you are paying for a yearly maintenance fee through Software Assurance. But last I heard there's no SA programs for Windows Mobile / Pocket PC / Windows Phone.
silverwind said:
The way I see it, the OS WP7 is an intelectual property rights. It is protected by law and it is not an open source.
You have to buy the software (WP7) to use that. It doesnt matter in which handset you use it, htc, samsung, etc.
Just like XP, Win7, etc, you buy the software to use legally. You can buy the branded PC (Acer, HP, Asus, etc), and you can also assemble a PC, but you still have to buy the software/os (XP, Win 7, etc)
So, it is not about using your HD2 for any other OS (WP7), but it is about using the software (WP7) which is legally protected as an intelectual property rights.
It doesnt mean I support microsoft. The fact is that I use WP7 on my HD2
Peace....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good point except they looked the other way when people where modifying the crap out of WM6.5 hell practicly every single member on this forum have broken the HTC's EULA in one way of another.
Anyways not here to start a piss war if MS decides to suspend my live account it was my choice knowing well the repercussion of my actions at hand. (Then again I can finally cancel my 2 year old Zune Pass as well as my xbox live account )
ROFL ... sorry this was a horrible post
DJTJ said:
ROFL ... sorry this was a horrible post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah you are right
sorry to scare you
as some of you already said, i belive ms would not be pissed if we buy apps from marketplace
but if they can find a way of tagging our phones as not being wp7 native and together with the info we provided when we asked for activation code, they just have the info about who are the people that are using "pirate" wp7
now this could be a serious motiv for ms to raise legal action against us, forcing us, at least, to drop the wp7 or/and to pay a penalty fee for using wp7
now, they will put in balance how much money could they get from such users buying legal apps fom marketplace and eventualy getting them to buy a native wp7 phone or how much money could they get by forcing those people to pay such penalty
my 2c!
noris08 said:
as some of you already said, i belive ms would not be pissed if we buy apps from marketplace
but if they can find a way of tagging our phones as not being wp7 native and together with the info we provided when we asked for activation code, they just have the info about who are the people that are using "pirate" wp7
now this could be a serious motiv for ms to raise legal action against us, forcing us, at least, to drop the wp7 or/and to pay a penalty fee for using wp7
now, they will put in balance how much money could they get from such users buying legal apps fom marketplace and eventualy getting them to buy a native wp7 phone or how much money could they get by forcing those people to pay such penalty
my 2c!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get your points. Yes, there is possibility as you said.
But I dont think MS will enforce any action against us.
Why? This kind of activities (hacking window os) has already happened since long time ago.I remembered I flashed my Touch HD with WM 6.5 (energy rom actually ) This is the same case as flashing WP7 to your HD2, right?, but MS just keeps silent though they know it (by browsing here at XDA )
that 's just my 2 cents
silverwind said:
I get your points. Yes, there is possibility as you said.
But I dont think MS will enforce any action against us.
Why? This kind of activities (hacking window os) has already happened since long time ago.I remembered I flashed my Touch HD with WM 6.5 (energy rom actually ) This is the same case as flashing WP7 to your HD2, right?, but MS just keeps silent though they know it (by browsing here at XDA )
that 's just my 2 cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, it's not exactly the case
when you bought the hd you also bought an wm6.1 license. wm6.5 is just an update of the 6.1, more like a service pack. so, you basicaly have the os you bought with some "enhancements"
but for wp7 you didn't pay anything, on your hd2 you just bought a wm os, not a wp7 os
for me looks like legaly windows xp with some service pack against windows 7
i just hope i am wrong
Phoned this morning, said I was having trouble accessing the market on my 'windows phone 7', person at other end said I needed an activation code and asked for my name, email and number, I gave the real ones and asked for code to be mailed. Code has arrived in mail.
Now to see what happens when the new update of WP7 comes out.
zkid2010 said:
They could be compelled to cooperate, but don't think for a moment your carrier is going to willingly start turning over records in an effort to nuke their own (sometimes highly valued) customers. Not gonna happen.
Cool scary story tho bro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, its compelte BS. The only way that the carrier could turn over information is IF they themselves may be liable in some way which they are not. If they turn over any sort of personal information without our consent its a breach of the data protect act (at least here in the UK it is) and that is a much higher crime then what we have done (if its a crime at all).
Plus the carrier has no way of knowing what phone we actually have unless they use the IMEI of the phone as a reference which again goes back to personal information and they wouldn't be able to disclose anything without court order and there is no court in the land who would force a UK company to turn over personal information in this case.
The most M$ can do in this situation is to find a way to detect a non-HD7 and to revoke the product key and thus disable activation of live services.
But I really dont think M$ are going to kick all this up, think about it what motivation would they have to piss about? Yeah they didn't want to officially support the HD2 and a port of WP7 etc but that doesn't mean they are also going to actively stop anybody who manages use it in the end it just not worth their while.
Its upto M$ now, they can either screw their supporters or let them be.
A Microsoft spokesperson issued the following statement:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-responds-to-htc-hd2-windows-phone-7-roms/
I read that as open season for the moment....
People lets make some noise on there....
Mouhahahahahahahaha
EDIT: BTW, When I called for the Activation. They gave it to me (but I had already used the one provided here). Then they called me again today just to make sure everything is operating smoothly. I love their Customer service
and this is how the communtiy responded when MS said no!!! the HD2 has too many buttons.
Microsoft would be crazy not to support WP7 on HD2. Of course they encourage it now..!!
Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either...
After all, it's free advertising and more people using their products...
They learn from it as well!!
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
I think the phrase 'at this time' is a bit of a giveaway. In the future maybe???
Whatever people think of Microsoft, they do try to listen to the feedback given by their customers. 'Cracked' software comes with the territory for any OS developer. They could block any unlocks, but that would lead to other methods to bypass this.
No software is crack-proof.
Windows 7 activation was bypassed ages ago, and Microsoft haven't actively tried to stop this.
I'm not a huge MS fan, but hats off to them for trying to improve their software and OS year on year.....
geddeeee said:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
I think the phrase 'at this time' is a bit of a giveaway. In the future maybe???
Whatever people think of Microsoft, they do try to listen to the feedback given by their customers. 'Cracked' software comes with the territory for any OS developer. They could block any unlocks, but that would lead to other methods to bypass this.
No software is crack-proof.
Windows 7 activation was bypassed ages ago, and Microsoft haven't actively tried to stop this.
I'm not a huge MS fan, but hats off to them for trying to improve their software and OS year on year.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason is there is no need to actively fight the activation cracking. It became a battle between the people who want to crack will crack no matter what. So what they did was make it as inconvenient as possible. Even when Windows 7 was cracked, unforseen checks caused the OS to relock itself and etc. More cracks had to be made to bypass the checks that werent seen.
With Windows phone, It's very likely they they don't care as long as people are using it since you can't exactly go out and buy windows phone 7 and install it like you can with the desktop OS. Plus, who knows how much they charge the phone manufacturers if anything.
The chances are, they either don't charge anything or charge very little and expect to make up for it when people buy content from the marketplace.
The phone itself was specifically designed with the pre-release specs for WP7 and with the HD7 was released and was basically the same, it was known then that eventually someone would get WP7 working on the HD2. Microsoft probably realized it and at this point they are going to just not support anyone using the HD2 as a WP7 device which is perfectly reasonable. The HD2 has some bugs to iron out for WP7 and why should Microsoft have to be responsible for supporting it.
This however isn't going to stop idiots who run WP7 on the HD2 from possibly calling Microsoft because of WP7 issues.
Hmmmm, the link at the top has had many HD2 WP7 users reply and left their view. Be careful because to leave your own comment they ask for an email. Make sure it isnt the email you used to activate WP7.
Putting that aside it is nice to see that Microsoft are not trying to slam the doors shut. Lets see what the updates bring and then see if they mean what they say.
Hilarity ensues!
ChrisTran206 said:
This however isn't going to stop idiots who run WP7 on the HD2 from possibly calling Microsoft because of WP7 issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, the clueless will call regardless...
Honestly though, I didn't know what to think regarding MS's response. I guess I assumed they would shut it down asap. Stunning revelation for me actually and I have new found respect for them in embracing insteading of shunning the enevitable.
maybe MS did add the HD2 to the compatability list a long time ago, but forgot that it was still there, so the customer service just did the right thing.
DannyBiker said:
Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either...
After all, it's free advertising and more people using their products...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quiet sure how "friendly" they are with people flashing their 360 with a custom firmware unless u call "friendly" getting your ass ban from xbox live and ur account cancel
DannyBiker said:
Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DennisCSUF said:
Not quiet sure how "friendly" they are with people flashing their 360 with a custom firmware unless u call "friendly" getting your ass ban from xbox live and ur account cancel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, no #%$
I thought his comparison with the 360 was a little off. And M$'s response on the Kinect hack was don't mess with it, until they backtracked and said they made it that way all along.
I guess we will see what happens after the next WP 7 release...
they ONLY reason they are not supplying wp7 for HD 2 is becuz of too many button on our HD 2.. they are stupid.. omg =.=
sooner or later they will put an end to this, and sooner or later hackers will find a way to get pass it.
It comes down to this. its all business. MS wanted a new phone to release its new OS so they got the HD7. who in their right mind in the business world would want to spend millions on a new OS and make it work on past devices before any new devices would come out? and if they make it compatible with hd2, then why not some other windows 6.5 phones? see the chain they'd have to deal with here?
Now as far as their kindness towards the crackers of wp7, that's the only way they could react. if they sound like arse's, ppl would rebel and look down at ms like they do at apple. They aren't going to release some form of fix for the crack right away, so no point in getting mad about it. in my eyes they are behind the scenes saying, have your fun..we'll block it again eventually so you have to crack it again. Meanwhile, they are saving their face, time and money to try to develop a quick fix, and letting people all get drawn into the new OS. Its brilliant. just like our developers here at XDA!
cx1 said:
A Microsoft spokesperson issued the following statement:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-responds-to-htc-hd2-windows-phone-7-roms/
I read that as open season for the moment....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Tom Warren(winrumors) has got his story wrong!
"Some users have contacted Microsoft’s official support lines requesting codes after falsely claiming their device is a HTC HD7. Microsoft has been issuing codes to allow the devices to access Windows Live services."
I never claimed to microsoft that I had a HD7, I was asked why I needed a code. I told them it was for Windows Phone 7, not a HD7. They gave me the code for my WP7 what I told them, so i have not given them false info.
So Tony get your facts right.
Russ
Whither the Upgrade
nzxtneo said:
I guess we will see what happens after the next WP 7 release...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. We shall all see what our efforts and desires bring us when the next release of WP7 comes out.
We'll all get the upgrade cleanly, OTA and we'll be smiling.
The upgrade will lock (or maybe even brick) our phones at which point all the small-minded people will scream at M$ for ruining their phones, which they had already ruined by running WP7 on a non-supported phone.
Or the upgrade won't work on our phones; we'll all be on the current version. Still functional but now it's an old OS (like 6.5). And we'll be asking for new ROMs.
And hey, if it's the first item we'll get copy/paste.
LOL. If it's all about copy/paste then we should "upgrade" back to WM 6.5...It has this functionality, as well as multitasking
I'm personally staying for a while with WP7...I like "The Harvest" too much