hi, is there any way to overclock the processor on the xperia?
By over clocking do you mean take the Xperia beyond its theoretical headline Limit of 528 mhz ?
I have looked at this but the new processor does not seem to be supported by many of the commercial solutions avaliable.
However SpeedBooster posted on the Turbo Speed X1 thread, allows you to set higher processor priority for the programs you choose, giving them a larger slice of the processor pie, its not overclocking as such, but it does make the processor work faster for the programs you choose.
I have used it for a few days with no serious problems, howvere having the processor running faster will drain battery faster, I have noticed this, but it is within acceptable limits for my needs,
I prefer the extra performance over the extra miliage.
Can you do a benchmark and post the results?
Would help a lot to start making a comparison between devices.
Is this what you're looking for:
I ask because different roms and kernels offer different benefits. Some allow you to overclock. Some allow you to get high Mflops running Linpack.
Mflops is a measure of how fast calculations are being performed (forgive my butchered definition). Mhz is how fast info is being processed. Which is king?
For example, I can underclock my processor to save battery life, but am using a ROM that generates high Mflops in Linpack. OR, I could overclock my processor for performance on a ROM that does not generate high Mflops.
Which would be faster?
My next question is: Do Mflops really matter? From Wikipedia:
"...a hand-held calculator must perform relatively few FLOPS. Each calculation request, such as to add or subtract two numbers, requires only a single operation, so there is rarely any need for its response time to exceed what the operator can physically use. A computer response time below 0.1 second in a calculation context is usually perceived as instantaneous by a human operator,[2] so a simple calculator needs only about 10 FLOPS to be considered functional."
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If once a certain Mflop is reached the calculation seems "instantaneous," then who cares if they are higher than instantaneous? Will we ever really "perceive" the benefit of 50Mflops on our phones?
Anybody that can shed some light on this for me? It would be much appreciated!
For every-day use, you will notice a much larger impact with the higher clock speed.
TheBiles said:
For every-day use, you will notice a much larger impact with the higher clock speed.
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What other use is there? Do you mean that processor speed is more important for speeding up the UI?
I would like to see an intelligent answer to this question with data or at least a solid theory to support it.
i may not be able to provide you with an engineers answer
but imma say... the one that sucks up less battery and provides fast calculations is the winner. so a 500mhz proc running higher flops would be my best decision
heck, i dunno.
That increase in mflops is from jit compiling java apps. The core os and browser are already native as are 3d games. They might speed up some from less java overhead.
MHz is not a measurement of "how fast info is processed", it is the clock speed of the processor. All it signifies is the rate at which the processor performs its operations. 1,000 MHz means the CPU has 1,000,000,000 cycles per second. Some operations will take one cycle to perform, other operations will take several cycles. Most software, unless it is exceptionally well written (in assembly language, which I don't believe can be executed on android) will require millions of CPU operations to perform whatever task it is trying to perform.
Increasing your clock speed while keeping all other things equal will increase all of your computing power and should give a useful gain in performance.
Linpack measures numeric floating point calculations. This is one of many types of tasks that a CPU must perform. Linpack is not an overall measurement of system performance, it's a measure of pure numeric (floating point) processing power. I have no idea how some roms manage to improve Linpack that dramatically, and you'd need to know that in order to truely answer your question. It seems likely to me that it's just a floating point optimization method that gives the higher scores, in this case floating point operations are the only things that would be improved.
The simple answer is that it depends what you want to do with your phone. If you do something with a lot of floating point calculation (3d games are an example, but they would typically use 3d hardware acceleration rather than cpu power, I'm not sure exactly how the snapdragon is designed so I'm not sure that they are not one and the same), you would get more performance out of the system with the higher linpack score. The higher clock speed on the other hand would provide you more overall benefit, it would make everything faster instead of just one area.
mhz doesn't necessarily mean speed. It's a easy, barely valid way to compare speeds to like model and generation processors only.
Platform independent benchmarks are much more important and reliable for judging speed. Therefore, a 500mhz processor that performs 20mflops is faster (at least in floating point operations) than a 1000mhz processor that performs 10 mflops.
Also realize, floating point operations per second are only one small part of a computer's performance. There's Specviewperf for Graphics performance, for instance, or general performance benchmarks like the whetstone or dhrystone.
Lets me see if I can shed some light:
In a basic processor you have 4 general tasks performed: Fetching, Decoding, Execution, and Writeback.
Processor clock rate (despite what people think) is not indicative of speed. It is an indicator of the number of wave cycles per second. Depending on the amount of work per cycle that a processor can do, then determines the "speed" of a processor. For instance an Intel 3ghz processor may be able to execute 100 integer calculations per cycle for a total of 300 billion calculations per second; but an AMD 3ghz processor could be able to do 200 integer calculations per second effectively making it the more efficient and "faster" processor.
A perfect example of this is the Hummingbird vs Snapdragon debate. Two processors at the same speed, yet Samsung claims the Hummingbird is faster due to the higher amount of work per cycle that can be executed.
The next step in the chain then comes when determining the types of calculations performed. An AMD processor may work better with a customized Linux based system that uses a higher level of floating point calculations, while an Intel processor may be better suited to a Windows system that uses a high level non-floating integers.
The next question is this: does your phone, a Linux based system use a high enough level Floating Point operations to make a difference in overall performance?
Google apparently does. However, Floating Point operations are simply a generic benchmark of a single facet of the operating system as a whole. Less wave cycles per second will decrease the overall potential of work, thereby decreasing performance in cases where the work needed to be executed exceeds the number of available waves.
Therefore, I would vote for the higher processor speeds, unless the only programs you execute use Floating Points.
Scientific enough?
Feel free to PM me with questions, or post here...
There are other factors that greatly affect processors as well, such as latency, BUS speed, and RAM available for buffering, but I didn't want to do an information overload.
~Jasecloud4
Sorry, I was assuming we were talking about the same processor (namely, the EVO's) clocked at two different speeds. It would make sense that the slower clock speed vielded more Mflops if it had JIT enabled, but I still think you would find the UI snappier with a higher-clocked ROM without JIT.
I notice a greater speed improvement from jit more than a faster processor speed. Especially with apps that have to load your whole system like autostarts. Battery life however, I'm still learning about. With Damage and being OC'd battery life was great. I'm currently on the latest CM nightly with jit and setcpu. We'll see how that compares.
Sent from my EVO using xda App
Quick off-topic question, then we'll get back on topic. Does the CyanogenMod build have the FPS broken?
TheBiles said:
Sorry, I was assuming we were talking about the same processor (namely, the EVO's) clocked at two different speeds. It would make sense that the slower clock speed vielded more Mflops if it had JIT enabled, but I still think you would find the UI snappier with a higher-clocked ROM without JIT.
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lol you say that as if you dont actually know it...
deep inside we both know it though...
but seriously, both of biles' post on P1 sum up the question from the OP. Trust us
Tilde88 said:
lol you say that as if you dont actually know it...
deep inside we both know it though...
but seriously, both of biles' post on P1 sum up the question from the OP. Trust us
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I'm a computer engineer, so I at least like to assume that I know what I'm talking about...
This thread is comparing Apples to Oranges. If the number of waves per second on a processor is increased, then the number of floating point calculations will increase, if every other factor remains the same.
It stands to reason that when two systems, one at 500MC/psec is pitted against another at 1000MC/psec with both systems running the same OS and JIT enabled, the one running at 1000MC/psec will have a higher number of floating points calculated.
~Jasecloud4
jasecloud4 said:
This thread is comparing Apples to Oranges. If the number of waves per second on a processor is increased, then the number of floating point calculations will increase, if every other factor remains the same.
It stands to reason that when two systems, one at 500MC/psec is pitted against another at 1000MC/psec with both systems running the same OS and JIT enabled, the one running at 1000MC/psec will have a higher number of floating points calculated.
~Jasecloud4
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True, but I don't think we're talking about identical ROMS, since different ROMS have different abilities to OC and/or run JIT.
dglowe343 said:
I notice a greater speed improvement from jit more than a faster processor speed. Especially with apps that have to load your whole system like autostarts.
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Running the nightly CM Froyo ROM right now and Autostarts is also the only app I have perceived to have a significant speed improvement from JIT. It really is the 2-5x faster that Google claimed JIT would be, but I've yet to see any other apps that benefit as much as Autostarts. Everything else seems the same as a non-JIT 2.1 ROM.
Haven't tried any games since getting the phone though, so can't give any feedback on those.
I think another poster in the CM Nightly rom thread compared his browser to his brothers 2.1 ROM phone, and the browsers were just about the same speed wise as well.
Given that feedback, I'd say for general usage a higher clock speed is better than lower clock speed and higher Mflops.
How has this thread gotten so long without the word "frequency" mentioned once? You guys are making this way too difficult. In 1 GHz, the Hz is the unit for frequency, which just means cycles per second. If you want a simple analogy, imagine a hamster running. His legs are moving up and down and forward at a certain frequency. You're running, too. Let's say that you are running at the same frequency. Who is getting somewhere quicker? Obviously you are because your legs are longer and stronger and you have a better power to weight ratio. Processors can behave the same way. Some simply get more done than others when operating at the same frequency for various reasons. This is why looking at only frequency is useless. Instead, we look at the work that it can do. Flops (floating point operations per second) is one measure of the work that a processor can do. There are many other ways to measure performance. This is just one of them.
Why do we want faster processors? It is partially so that we can be faster, but mostly so that we can do more. If you were to run the OS from phones 10 years ago on the hardware of today, most operations would be essentially instantaneous and with smart power saving features, you wouldn't need to charge it but once a week or less. But today's phones do far more. We need those higher speeds because even when you're sitting there looking at the home screen and "not doing anything", the OS is running dozens of services in the background to keep everything working correctly. Imagine if we were to take a modern engine and put it in an econo car from 30 years ago. It would go like hell and be incredibly efficient but it wouldn't have the safety, comfort, or features that we've come to expect with a modern automobile.
Sprockethead said:
Quick off-topic question, then we'll get back on topic. Does the CyanogenMod build have the FPS broken?
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Yes. I avg 50-55 fps.
Sent from my EVO using xda App
jasecloud4 said:
This thread is comparing Apples to Oranges. If the number of waves per second on a processor is increased, then the number of floating point calculations will increase, if every other factor remains the same.
It stands to reason that when two systems, one at 500MC/psec is pitted against another at 1000MC/psec with both systems running the same OS and JIT enabled, the one running at 1000MC/psec will have a higher number of floating points calculated.
~Jasecloud4
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um yea, but have you ever OC a video card for example?
lets take my old nVidia 8800gtx...
just because I overclock my core speeds doesnt mean that my memory bus will also be up'd, (of course the option is there but for the sake of the thread we'll ignore that)
Sure, now itll be able to process things much faster, but it cannot render as quickly as its ciphering, buffering, processing... etc...
like biles said, up the CPU for snappier user interfacing, up the flops for lets say, vb compiling ...
im not at my most sober points right now, so if you cant comprehend what im saying, think of the 'core' speed as the CPU, and the 'bus' speed as mFLOPS ...
and well gaming and rendering effects can see an improvement through JIT, but only if the said app or whatnot was built with JIT. otherwise it would be like upscaling a standard DVD to 720p. and seeing as how 3d rendering is after all native, how much more gfx tweaks do we need?
So I flashed Skyraider today, and my quadrant score dropped 100 points from stock sense. What the hell is going on here....
The Black Droid said:
So I flashed Skyraider today, and my quadrant score dropped 100 points from stock sense. What the hell is going on here....
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Sitting at 1032. With the stock ROM, I was getting around 1120.
Why are these scores so low???
Q scores || ROMs
Quadrant scores vary by ROM and kernel, and by different kernels in the same ROM.
Those scores are expected to vary.
Quadrant scores, don't take those to heart... It's all about feel. I've run roms where they might score low, but feel and move quick.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I just don't understand how some of these guys have anywhere from 2700-3300 as their quad score. I would imagine their phones are running insanely fast
Maybe, they are most likely overclocking. Some phones don't like going too high. Like on mine, I can't go over 1.113, or my phone slows to a crawl and locks up/reboots.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
The Black Droid said:
I just don't understand how some of these guys have anywhere from 2700-3300 as their quad score. I would imagine their phones are running insanely fast
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Where have you seen people post these scores for their Inc?
I'm willing to bet good money that if you are seeing people post scores that high, they are either:
A. Not running Quadrant from an Inc but a much more powerful device (like an Android tablet)
B. Faking the results in Photoshop (or just lying about the number if no screenshot is provided)
C. Running a setup that doesn't actually run through the Quadrant test properly. For example, Quadrant didn't run properly on Gingerbread roms at first, and the scores that it would produce were extremely erratic. Sometimes they would be extremely low, sometimes they would be extremely high, but they weren't accurate or repeatable.
D. Running some sort of insane setup that is only stable enough to finish a Quadrant run, and will never actually be used for anything
Frankly, even D is far-fetched.
I would be inclined to call a 100 point fluctuation in Quadrant scores insignificant.
If you really want to chase the highest benchmark scores, you'll need to overclock your CPU and run the system as lean as possible. That means uninstalling or disabling a lot of the things that make your life easier day-to-day.
Also, in case you haven't already seen it in your own testing, Quadrant scores are always lowest on the first run. If you press the back button and immediately start a new Quadrant run, you'll get a much higher score.
Like any unit of measurement, Quadrant scores do serve a useful purpose. But as is often the case when the score itself is seen by some as the end-goal, it is often misapplied.
The same can be seen in digital cameras and the megapixel arms race. Everyone wants to brag about how many megapixels their camera is capable of. Everyone wants the highest number of megapixels, assuming that more MP = better image. Few people realize what it actually means, or why it matters very little these days.
A lot of those people are overclocking to get really high scores and for all the reasons listed above (nice post!).
You really should not be looking to get that high on the incredible, you'll end up draining your battery like crazy. Around the 1,000 mark is great for playing higher-end games on the market as long as you aren't running a bunch of things in the background. Just about anything else you can think up of doing on your phone should run well, you won't have a sluggish device and you won't be killing your battery either.
If you do end up trying to overclock your phone or using a ROM or kernel combination that will give you a much higher score I don't think you'll notice any difference when doing anything on your phone, but your battery will drop much quicker.
Like other people have said, Quad scores don't matter much- take them lightly as you see them.
There is a lot that goes into that score. The highest score I could get today is 1656 but it was consistently in the Upper 1500s, I ran 5 tests.
My setup:
CM7 RC2
Incredikernel 03/06 OC to 1113Mhz/Performance Govenor
16Gb Class 2 microSD card.
If someone is using a class 4 or a class 6 card their i/o scores could be much higher than mine which would result in a much higher overall score than mine. Also keep in mind with Linux Kernels can very alot and that there are different types of task schedulers in them such as BFS or CFS which can have dramatic affect on the quadrent scores. Quadrent tends to score BFS kernels higher. So yeah I can believe people are hitting most of the score they post up. However byrong is right about it not being a setup you'd want to use on a daily basis. For me it causes random reboots, my phone gets hot and the UI becomes laggy after a little while also the battery drops like a brick.
My normal setup that I run on a daily basis is the same kernel uc to 803Mhz/smartass governor. It is extremely stable and is smooth as butter but my quadrent scores are only only in the 1100s with my high being 1244.
Its really not all about the score, if your happy with the performance who cares about the score.
I keep hearing about people running their nooks at 1.3 or 1.4 but I can't find a kernel. Any help here?
I've been a member a long time and I know that bumping your own thread is not generally accepted, however, I have reason to believe that this device can bump WAY past the current speeds. For one, I have read articles claiming 2800 on Quad at 1.3 and that 1.4 kernels were being worked on and two - even under the HEAVIEST load, while charging no less, my phone hits 38C on the battery. My brand spanking new Sensation hits 47C when its charging and being used!
While it IS possable to overclock to 1.3+ ghz, it is not usually advised. I run CM7 7.1 rc1 and have dalengrins overclock rom dated 06/18 it has been my experience that speeds over 1.2 ghz reduce the stability of the nook and can cause strange behaviour. My quadrant scores at the above mentioned 1.2 average between 2550 and 2875. Considering these scores are almost 3 times the score of a stock rooted nook, I have no problem with the speed. The only time my nook reaches those speeds is when I am playing games from the tegrazone areas. Currently, I have 3 "tegra only" games running quite well. For a 7 inch e-reader, I believe that is acceptable.
Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk
Moshe5368 said:
While it IS possable to overclock to 1.3+ ghz, it is not usually advised. I run CM7 7.1 rc1 and have dalengrins overclock rom dated 06/18 it has been my experience that speeds over 1.2 ghz reduce the stability of the nook and can cause strange behaviour. My quadrant scores at the above mentioned 1.2 average between 2550 and 2875. Considering these scores are almost 3 times the score of a stock rooted nook, I have no problem with the speed. The only time my nook reaches those speeds is when I am playing games from the tegrazone areas. Currently, I have 3 "tegra only" games running quite well. For a 7 inch e-reader, I believe that is acceptable.
Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk
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I thank you for the response and I understand your concern, however, I have been able to undervolt an extra 100mV off of the voltage at 1200MHz with 15 runs of Quadrant and no freezing and would like to use the wiggle room that I have. I undervolted by 200mV and ended up running 6 before it froze so obviously this is one of the better chips as far as overclocking.
That said, it beats my Sensation's 1.2GHz out of the box which says a lot. My Sensation at 1.2GHz is about 1900 and I feel this processor can go farther.
We also need new drivers for the SGX530. There is NO reason why it should be running 9 FPS average at stock AND overclocked on the simplest bench on Quad (the planet and moon test which fragments and everything).
I'm about to pay for Chainfire's app so that I can see if Pinball 3D will run on here... if it does and its smoother than on my G2x which HAS a Tegra and misses my input a LOT then I will be more than happy.
Its really more for bragging rights than anything to have this thing clocked clock-for-clock with the new gen "dualcores" and have it whip their asses honestly LOL
I installed CM7 with DSC Phoenix test2,overclock to 1344MHz.
when I bench with Quadrant Advanced ver2.1, my score is >1300 to 1400.
It's lower than my old milestone 1 (with CPU 600 MHz Cortex-A8 and GPU PowerVR SGX530, overclock to 1,1Ghz). quadrant score of milestone1 is > 1700. I dont know why?
And this morning I tested with HTC Incredible S of my friend (CPU 1 GHz Scorpion
and GPU Adreno 205, ICS rom without overclock). Score is > 1900.
Is my streak weak? I cant believe streak5 is slower than milestone1 and HTC Incredible S.
how about you?
I think many on here will agree with me when I say forget about the benchmark scores. They largely mean nothing as it relates to real world performance and you can drive yourself crazy trying to tweak your phone to death to increase the numbers. With that being said, the performance hit is likely in the file i/o section.
As normal user and not a programmer, I dont understand about the file i/o section. But thanks you, Lordmorphous. So I'll forget foolish scores, what a stupid app =))
File I/O = File input and output, which in simpler language is the act of reading and writing to the MicroSD cards.
Quadrant and other such benchmark tools are fun to run, but they don't mean much. To properly test a device requires a benchmark program like Futuremark's PCMark, which includes real-world applications and simulates real-world usage. There is no such benchmark app for Android however.
though, if you guys notice the benchmark for the quadrant advance 2.x, the i/o score for our DS5 does a bit low compared to others but... well you know, it just numbers... nothing more.. nothing less...
however, cpu power does have the impact when overclocked, for let say using default cpu speed of 1ghz, software decoding is a bit slow compared to overclocked 1.2ghz...
just my 2 cents