I don't know very much about software android development or kernals for that matter (although I'm learning more everyday ). But from what I understand, the Droid X and Droid 2 have a locked boot loader as well, however there has been a workaround developed for those issues in the form of a bootstrap. I have read here and there that the eFuse and security systems used to lock the DX are similar for the Atrix. So My question is, since we have the kernel source code and other source codes released and leaked, why couldn't a similar bootstrap method be implemented to work for the Atrix. Or is it not that simple?
What we have right now is a lack of interest from the devs. Designgears jumped ship, and many devs have said that they're not planning on working on the Atrix due to AT&T and their restrictions. (I think that's pretty small-minded of them, as this device has amazing potential)
However, we have multiple people that are studying the bootloader and the device. I'm not sure if there's been any progress on cracking the bootloader, but there is certainly progress on discovering just what makes the bootloader tick.
I just figured that someone would figure out how to manipulate the bootstrap for the DX to work for the Atrix, as of yet, I have heard nothing on this subject.
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Hello all,
i like XDA Forums for its master brains and respect it for all the support.
i used windows mobile and android on different HTC devices and enjoyed all the interesting things in it with the help of XDA.
now i wanted to try motorola milestone and got it and it was a sheer disappointment.
Motorola milestone users are ignored very badly by motorola without updating the buggy phone and not even caring to reply users queries. its even deleting all the users posts in developer forums. it locked down the bootloader with digital signatures when the same device in US "Droid" has got all the cakes with open bootloader and custom roms and device updates for issues. recently it has announced 2.1 for droid where milestone still didn't even get 2.0.1
i see ano place to report this and motorola wantedly deleting all such posts in their support forums. as this is common android section, thought i can post it here and see if any master brains can help us.
check here where a continent itself is complaining against motorola and there is no single reply or action for this
Thanks for understanding
its bound to happen really, the Droid is Motorola's gem now and it will be the one shown off and given what it needs ahead of other devices.
Same with HTC and there devices, there flagship one's get the bug fixes and new updates while lesser models dont.
I'm sure the Milestone will eventually get what it needs.
What do you mean by locked down boot loader?
as far as i understand the bootloader in milestone is little different than in droid. the milestone bootloader uses digital signatures everywhere to check for the software authentication which makes it impossible to put custom ROMs as we do with all other android phones.
even motorola is very slow in updating the issues with milestone. i don't understand why they are doing this but its like completely locked down and totally ignored fir the price everyone payed.
hello admins / moderators / master brains / everyone,
is it possible to check the Motorola milestone bootloader for bypassing the digital signature check so that we can install custom roms on it as its done on Droid.
please take this as a kind request as i lost hope on motorola releasing the open bootloader on milestone and they r very slow in releasing updates for this device and also ignorant in resolving most bugs.
i see that you are supporting non HTC devices like samsung, toshiba and Acer. so a little hope that its posible to look into this
please everyone
i am not a big techie to understand internals of the possibilities but you can see how many people want this on here http://www.facebook.com/motorolaeurope
Thanks to all for reading this
Motorola Milestone and Droid feature the same Hardware (while Droid is CDMA and Milestone GSM) but they did not get the same software build.
Droid = with Google (Maps Navigation etc.)
Milestone = Motorola Android (Multitouch, Motonav etc.)
Thanks to TI, M-Shield is available on both devices. With M-Shield it is possible to control booting and flashing.
While the Droid does accept every signature, the Milestone is locked to (probably) one.
So there we are.
Kernel without signature will not boot (blocked by Bootloader).
Flashing another modified Bootloader is not possible without signature.
Barnd83 said:
Motorola Milestone and Droid feature the same Hardware (while Droid is CDMA and Milestone GSM) but they did not get the same software build.
Droid = with Google (Maps Navigation etc.)
Milestone = Motorola Android (Multitouch, Motonav etc.)
Thanks to TI, M-Shield is available on both devices. With M-Shield it is possible to control booting and flashing.
While the Droid does accept every signature, the Milestone is locked to (probably) one.
So there we are.
Kernel without signature will not boot (blocked by Bootloader).
Flashing another modified Bootloader is not possible without signature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all this has already been figured out. what they want to know now is how to un-fudge it so that they have the same abilities as dream and other android users. I have been reading EVERYTHING i can find on the matter, as i REALLY want a milestone. id just get a droid, but i HATE verizon and am staying on t-mobile no matter what phone i hafta use. so im stuck on g1 till the milestone gets figured out. what i have been thinking is that the signature is a key, so there must be a keyhole, right? if we could find and disassemble the "keyhole", could we not then reverse engineer a key?
All this locked/unlocked nonsense is making me want a milestone even more, just so i can help figure this out and give motorola a big "F-U" for what they are doing. because thats basically what they've done, they've told all their customers to go F*&$ themselves. well, just the ones outside of the US.
Honestly i dont see how motorola made it this far with a slogan like, "Go F*&$ Yourself", but whatever. thats why i HATE verizon, because they dont give two ****s about their customers, as long as they get paid. and thats what motorola is doing here...they dont CARE what milestone users want, as long as they keep selling milestones, and controlling EVERY ASPECT of them.
doesnt sound like an OPEN SOURCE attitude, to me...
-BMFC
Milestone 2.0.1 had been released before you wrote that post actually (it was released on feb 4th).
if you didn't get the update OTA yet you can even get it through their website
I assume you're in Germany so try here hxxp://direct.motorola.com/GER/SoftwareUpdateSummary.asp?country=DEU&language=GER&web_page_name=SUPPORT&strCarrierId=&strPhone=MILESTONE
chowdarygm said:
where milestone still didn't even get 2.0.1
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Click to collapse
now the hope is gone and i decided to sell my device. its such a dumb company which doesn't care about end users.
HTC is far better in these things without putting hard restrictions.
You must have missed the hooplah that surounded the era of phones HTC put out around the Tilt. Crap video drivers etc....
HTC is just like Motorola. They go where the money is, although I say Motorola went a little overboard with the signed bootloader, it still runs rings around the Hero and most other aandroid devices short of Desire/ Nexus One.....
I'm fairly new to the Android development aspect of it all, but not new to the platform by any means. I bought a Droid 2 when it came out, and then bought a DInc a few weeks later from a friend as well (it's become my main phone as I like HTC Sense much better). Now I know this phone (D2) has the same eFuse encrypted bootloader that the Milestone and the Droid X have, and I believe I have it down pat as to how it works and why custom roms and kernels cannot be loaded these phones. My question is, why can't someone S-Off these devices, so that they don't check for Motorola's signatures?
Both the DX and D2 can now have custom ROMs loaded onto them. The bootloader remains locked, so no custom kernels yet. Can't answer your other question.
Oh cool I didn't know that, my D2 has kinda fallen by the wayside ever since I bought this Incredible. Quite interesting, I may have to put a vanilla ROM on it then.
the bootloader is encrpyted, unless you have the key to unlock it there is not a way around it.......for now
the efuse chip does more then jsut block signature verification, thats why almost every phone has it
Sorry if this has been asked before, but I did search and found nothing:
I had an Inc. before, and traded to the X for the screen, and physical buttons which I like.
However, as we all know the X blows in comparison to the Inc. in terms of development; so I have to ask since I'm trying to decide what to do:
1) Is the kernel responsible for preventing us from things like notification toggles, notification recent apps, etc... ?
2) When Gingerbread/Ice Cream comes out, are we pretty much at moto's will w/o being able to modify the kernel?
3) What are the chances of seeing CM6 on the X specifically? I'd love to see it, but am no longer hopeful I guess
4) I saw that ccvp (or something like that) was able to hijack moto's init. Is this pretty much dead, or is there still work for it?
I don't really care that birdman stopped dev work on the X (he was responsible for a lot, i know) but will tear if more devs switch to other phones.
Any Ideas?
Again, sorry if all this was already covered.
P.S. I have programming, and Java experience so I WAS thinking to start trying to do some sort of cracking on this myself, but too afraid to brick my only phone
dreamersipaq said:
Sorry if this has been asked before, but I did search and found nothing:
I had an Inc. before, and traded to the X for the screen, and physical buttons which I like.
However, as we all know the X blows in comparison to the Inc. in terms of development; so I have to ask since I'm trying to decide what to do:
1) Is the kernel responsible for preventing us from things like notification toggles, notification recent apps, etc... ?
2) When Gingerbread/Ice Cream comes out, are we pretty much at moto's will w/o being able to modify the kernel?
3) What are the chances of seeing CM6 on the X specifically? I'd love to see it, but am no longer hopeful I guess
4) I saw that ccvp (or something like that) was able to hijack moto's init. Is this pretty much dead, or is there still work for it?
I don't really care that birdman stopped dev work on the X (he was responsible for a lot, i know) but will tear if more devs switch to other phones.
Any Ideas?
Again, sorry if all this was already covered.
P.S. I have programming, and Java experience so I WAS thinking to start trying to do some sort of cracking on this myself, but too afraid to brick my only phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The inability to boot a custom kernel is the one and only roadblock to full custom ROMs like Cyanogenmod. And while I would never say 'never', I would not count on a hack showing up soon. Just go check in on the Milestone people (same bootloader)
Having said that, I would encourage you to go look at what's being done in the dev subforum. Roms like Tranquility, Apex, Zapx and the early Rubix roms are very solid, but removing much of the blur stuff.
Most recently, Fission & Rubix 1.0 are building just about the entire base from AOSP, using almost none of the motorola blur overhead.
Also, hacks have been recently released to overclock the processor.
All in All,there are certainly some limitations imposed by the kernel situation, but there is also still quite a bit happening.
I'd also like to add that it is virtually impossible to truly brick the DX now since the official OTA 2.2 SBF has been leaked.
The only thing we don't have on the DX is custom kernels. However, with all we do have at our disposal, I don't really care at all. I can fully theme, overclock, use all the root apps, etc...
I don't know whether or not the DX will get Gingerbread. It certainly is a possibility. However, I will be upgrading to the newer device designed for Gingerbread. When I say this, I mean a phone that's display can do 1024 by 720 resolution. Also, many of the top-end upcoming phones are going to have autostereoscopic 3D displays. Did I mention that many Gingerbread phones will have dual-core CPUs and GPUs with graphics which rival the PS3 and xBox 360? Well, they will
Remember, Verizon is going to probably do the same thing they did with the DX. They will let people get the 2-year account renewal price for the best upcoming phone even if you just renewed your 2-year contract this year. If someone renewed their contract with the DX and got it for $199, they will be able to do the same thing in December/January with the top-end Gingerbread phone most likely for $199 too
I finally decided to ask a question that's been bugging me for a few days now, with all android development going around in a very impressive pace.
Now I am completly new to kernel concept so don't me too harsh if I said something wrong.
The question: Isn't there really a way to modify/update our kernel since we have locked bootloader?
As far as I understood, most of us are running ICS UI on top of GB kernel (even some on top of Froyo kernel) but this does not give us the advantage of running ICS on it full force and take full advantage of your harware.
I know Endless7 had a method to downgrade kernel, and I thought may be there can be a similar way to upgrade it.
With JB just around the corner, that would be a great improvement IMHO for our device.
Megalith27 said:
I finally decided to ask a question that's been bugging me for a few days now, with all android development going around in a very impressive pace.
Now I am completly new to kernel concept so don't me too harsh if I said something wrong.
The question: Isn't there really a way to modify/update our kernel since we have locked bootloader?
As far as I understood, most of us are running ICS UI on top of GB kernel (even some on top of Froyo kernel) but this does not give us the advantage of running ICS on it full force and take full advantage of your harware.
I know Endless7 had a method to downgrade kernel, and I thought may be there can be a similar way to upgrade it.
With JB just around the corner, that would be a great improvement IMHO for our device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm no expert but I think this has to be done by motorola, since the kernel is the one responsible for the hardware management, and given the bootloader is locked we can't put custom kernels in our phone
Caesarivs said:
I'm no expert but I think this has to be done by motorola, since the kernel is the one responsible for the hardware management, and given the bootloader is locked we can't put custom kernels in our phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply. I do realize that and as Moto stated clearly that MS2 will not see official ICS there is not hope to get it from Moto.
But I thought maybe it can be ported from other device, or some modules, which share same CPU.
I am pretty sure our devs have looked into this but since we even got HWA working lol anything is possible these days.
There is a new bootloader hijacker called kexec which allows loading custom kernels. Hashcode is doing it for the Droid 3, and if I'm not wrong, it's designed specially for Motorola Phones with locked bootloaders. But you have to implement new drivers for video and such, so it's a lot of work.
Sent from my XT860 using xda app-developers app
elleypo Ière
Megalith27 said:
Thanks for the reply. I do realize that and as Moto stated clearly that MS2 will not see official ICS there is not hope to get it from Moto.
But I thought maybe it can be ported from other device, or some modules, which share same CPU.
I am pretty sure our devs have looked into this but since we even got HWA working lol anything is possible these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that it's not *only* a "same cpu" problem, it's the whole hardware solution.... camera, sound, gpu, and so on.
It's one of the reasons the dev on MS2 is so "slow", with the locked bootloader, non support from Motorola, the multiple versions (Droid2/Droid2 Global, MS2 EU/CH/NA and so on), getting the hardware to work (specially with newer android like ICS/JB is/was a pain, and most of the work was done "porting" those from the Defy/Atrix and so on who have, somewhat, partially the same hardware and can be adapted.
On top of that, changing the kernel as already said would mean to find a security flaw/hole in the bootloader that could be exploited for that.
(the downgrade solution was patched/fixed with the latest european, and now Latin America bootloader/kernel upgrades if i remember well, hence why most europeans who upgraded to the latest OTA don't really have a working CM7, since it requires to flash fixed sbf and other things to make it work (a patched recovery partition i think)).
But really, having the dev (forgot his name, danthingyabak ) getting full HW acceleration, and a working ICS port and pretty much everything working now, while LA and China starts getting remotely the same versions, we might see more develeoppement coming, since it's no longer "region specific" devs. Maybe even one day Droid 2/Droid 2 Global and MS will share the same developpements, who knows (or, maybe by Miracle, now that Google owns Motorola, maybe one day we will see unlocked bootloaders for all phone yeah i'm dreaming ).
What about us now?!
http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-finally-unlocking-bootloaders-for-real-this-time-20120726/
I hope it's true!
PS. But if it's not about us again, we hope that this method will work even be
xenusr said:
I hope it's true!
PS. But if it's not about us again, we hope that this method will work even be
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that thing was just a false alarm...or early celebration...
Sent from my MotoA953
Looks like we're finally getting there
http://androidcommunity.com/motorol...live-finally-can-unlock-bootloaders-20120817/
Greetings, programs! Well my question is not likely something anyone could have a definitive answer for - but I welcome any opinions or ideas. I don't want phone that is locked up against tinkering, but the current "price" of this phone is so tempting. Just about everything I've read tells me I'd really love this phone - the only thing holding me up is my expectation that there will be little to no development done with this phone.
I see that the bootloader seems to have been successfully unlocked? Now that this is the case I wonder if it's likely to be something anyone puts work into as far as developing ROMS/kernels. I'm not expecting Nexus-level activity, but even the hope of something might help me make up my mind (or I may just get a GNex). Thanks,
Merman1983 said:
Greetings, programs! Well my question is not likely something anyone could have a definitive answer for - but I welcome any opinions or ideas. I don't want phone that is locked up against tinkering, but the current "price" of this phone is so tempting. Just about everything I've read tells me I'd really love this phone - the only thing holding me up is my expectation that there will be little to no development done with this phone.
I see that the bootloader seems to have been successfully unlocked? Now that this is the case I wonder if it's likely to be something anyone puts work into as far as developing ROMS/kernels. I'm not expecting Nexus-level activity, but even the hope of something might help me make up my mind (or I may just get a GNex). Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The boot loader is unlockable for the dev edition RAZR m and as for development, safe strap has been released and cm10 alpha has been released. I have no doubt that in the future, more will come out. If ur attracted to this phone, then I highly suggest you get it because of the size and specs.
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
jarzy00 said:
The boot loader is unlockable for the dev edition RAZR m and as for development, safe strap has been released and cm10 alpha has been released. I have no doubt that in the future, more will come out. If ur attracted to this phone, then I highly suggest you get it because of the size and specs.
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree with jarzy00 i am coming from evil land apple and this phone feels nice and compact replacing my i4 LMAO
Razr i, Razr M and Razr M XT905 (Future release for Euro market maybe) are one of the few phones left standing with this kind of small foot print.
ever one else moved on to larger screens. And the specs aren't too shaby =)
Ok, I see. My experience with Moto phones are limited, but do I have it right that using the bootstrap method you can flash custom ROMS, but custom kernels are a no go? Still waiting till I make a decision, but every bit of info helps.
Coorect Bootstrap allow you to load that Beta CM10.
(There isn't much support on that yet)
And no custom kernels unless you have the Dev edition
There are AU Edition, US Edition, Dev Edition, And the i (Intel), there are plans for a EU Edition which will be GSM only
Either get it and hand in tight, or look for a DEV
Merman1983 said:
Ok, I see. My experience with Moto phones are limited, but do I have it right that using the bootstrap method you can flash custom ROMS, but custom kernels are a no go? Still waiting till I make a decision, but every bit of info helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure how far development is on Safestrap for the M, but it will allow custom kernels on locked devices using kexec. The version for the Droid 3 (which has a locked bootloader) allows a 3.x kernel to be run instead of the factory 2.6.x kernel in order for better ICS and newer compatibility. Unless Motorola has patched this kexec bypass then it should be possible to implement on the M.
Thanks guys for this thread. I was possibly looking at this phone, but I don't want to end up with the same situation we had with the bionic. I think I'll skip it until Moto wises up and unlocks the bootloaders.
If you really want some development here, look at the donate thread for getting nytro a razr m so he can develop for the retail version. In terms of safestrap, you could potentially get modify a custom rom. It just takes one rom to iron out the major bugs and people can start deriving from it.
i dont think moto will ever get smart with bootloaders, which is sad because they make quality phones, with unlocked bootloaders i dont think id ever buy another brand. but regardless, we have stable safe strap, just isnt a big flagship device, its not a new phone and with all the new better phones that are cake to unlock, this phone is just looked over and left in the dust, aside from a few very good devs we have working to give us some stuff to play with, we wont see much.