Database Users

The Dreaded Premium Data-Add on

I'm looking to get the Evo but the $10 a month Premium data-add on is something that is holding me back. What I am trying to figure out is whether this is actually required by the phone or not. I was told back in the days that the Blackberry Internet Service was "required" for activation, yet I easily activated the phones without the internet plan, and I was even able to activate a few with the internet plan then go back and remove the internet plan and it still worked! I to this day don't believe Sprint when they tell me something won't work, so I'm trying to find a solution to this. Is there anyway the command forcing the phone to search to see if the subscriber has the data add on can be accessed? Would it be a file or a command? And wouldn't I just be able to do what I did with my Blackberry's in the past and just cancel the premium data add on after activation and keep the phone working like normal?
Another user explained to me that a user on these forums: Toast is working on some sort of solution to this?

I'm pretty sure no. As with the pre and hero I think the sprint system knows the imei for the phones and will require this. Looking in my account, I can see the premium data plan, and It does not let me remove it. If there's some special way, who knows, but I don't think I've heard of one yet.
I'm actually ok with the premium data plan. It means that less people ran for the phone (which means I got one easy) and it means less people jamming the network with one, which leads to higher speeds for me lol... Sprint's always been good to me otherwise. I can eat the 7.70 a month I have to add on.

You must have the plan or your phone disactivates.

It's worth it, free Telenav and sprint tv, plus 4g
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Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App

Speed alone is worth it. If that doesn't sell you I read somewhere a plan pricing comparison and Sprint with the +$10 plan is still cheaper than most services out there when it comes down to it.

chandlerw88 said:
It's worth it, free Telenav and sprint tv, plus 4g
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Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
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The free sprint TV is crap, but the navigation seems very good!
But...Navigon will be releasing an android nav app this year, so that will make it useless, lol
Basically if you don't get 4G or don't need it...it's just an extra crap fee.

ballerx43 said:
I was told back in the days that the Blackberry Internet Service was "required" for activation, yet I easily activated the phones without the internet plan, and I was even able to activate a few with the internet plan then go back and remove the internet plan and it still worked!
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This is pure blind luck. When the Blackberry add-on was still sold by Sprint, not having it on the account was possible...but lead to a great deal of issues. Blackberry devices can and will check the web often. If you dind't get hit with data charges. Some people did. Some people's phones couldn't even make phonecalls without the pack.
And just for reference, the price of that add-on was set by RIM, NOT by Sprint.
EVO-lution said:
You must have the plan or your phone disactivates.
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Half true. There's no way to remove the feature as every Rep knows that it has to be there.
Of course if you do manage to find a way to remove the feature you'll end up paying MORE, so that's probably not in you r best interest!
Personally, I rarely use 4g. It has major penetration issues (know I'm going to hear more on that phrase!) but considering I'm at 1.3GB since the 27th of last month on this thing, odds are good I'll reach and/or exceed the 5gb cap that typiccally accompanies this kind of gear. $10 to allow me to use the phone as much as I want, in whatever way I want?
Sold.

I don't see the big issue. I came from AT&T paying $250 a month. This is nothing to worry about.

you can get this phone on $70/month plan. google slickdeals, check their hotdeals foroums. it's there.

Neotelos_com said:
The free sprint TV is crap, but the navigation seems very good!
But...Navigon will be releasing an android nav app this year, so that will make it useless, lol
Basically if you don't get 4G or don't need it...it's just an extra crap fee.
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yeah, but you can get nav on the evo from google maps....
I think it's a ripoff to charge an extra $10 that most of the country can't access yet for some reason, people still pay it.

I originally was upset by the $10 surcharge, however, after using the Evo for a weekend I consume WAY more data on it than any other phone I've used. Its so hard not to. I almost prefer browsing on it compared to my laptop, YouTube is great, and Maps and Navigation on the big screen is a joy to use. Besides, Sprint's plans are still a hell of a lot better than the competition, even with the extra fee.

So is there a definitive answer whether the 3g is truly unlimited or is it only 4g? There seems to be conflicting answers everywhere.

bockjacob said:
So is there a definitive answer whether the 3g is truly unlimited or is it only 4g? There seems to be conflicting answers everywhere.
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http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=5973
case closed
From CNET News: "If the thought of having to pay for 4G without actually getting 4G makes you mad, it might be some slight consolation that there will be no data cap associated with the Premium Data add-on, regardless of whether you're using 4G or 3G, according to Phone Scoop."

Pricing is Official - $199 on Contract - $499 for Laptop Dock

http://www.androidcentral.com/att-a...available-march-6-or-earlier-pre-order-feb-13
- The phone itself will cost $199 after rebate and two-year contract.
- Presales start Feb. 13, the phone will be available March 6 "or earlier."
- You have to have a minimum data service that costs $15 a month.
- The Atrix and Laptop Dock can be purchased as a package for $499.99 -- after contract and a $100 rebate.
- There's also an Entertainment Access Kit -- with the HD Multimedia Dock, a Blueooth keyboard and mouse, and remote control. That costs $199.
- The Laptop dock by itself costs $499.99. (Better to buy it with the phone.)
So, On contract, it's going to be $199. If you want the Laptop Dock, you can get the Bundle at $499. AFTER rebate, and you MUST have the tethering plan.
Sorry, but NO sale. Requiring the tethering plan is ludicrous, and $499 for the laptop dock? I REALLY wanted this phone and the Laptop dock, but these prices are stupid.
edit: Official News Release: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...ailable-for-preorder-on-feb-13-115191644.html

So ****ing stupid.....at&t just killed all the hype surrounding this and i'm sure they lost a huge portion of sales from people that were so amped for this....

Anyone else a little mad that att would take such an amazing and exciting device and just **** it all up? I was SO excited for this. Now, because they cant be reasonable, I gotta settle for something else. REALLY ATT? You're asking too much for the kit but I would have paid it if not for the ridiculous tethering requirement. Can someone justify this? Please? I'd love to see them try

i probably would have also paid the $499.....but requiring tethering makes this a definite no for me...

I'm pretty sure that I will now not be getting this phone, and most likely will be leaving AT&T. My contract has been up for some time, I was looking forward to upgrading to the Atrix. Forcing the tethering plan for a non-tethered device killed it for me, as well as the ludicrous pricing but I could have dealt with the pricing. Too bad AT&T really screwed this up, I was looking forward to this and was convinced to buy it up until now.
...Next.

I'm still going preorder one. Was hoping to get a dock but for those prices its phone only for me.
I'll just use the hdmi mirroring. If anything its gotta be better than the captivate
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

bose.jhebert said:
Anyone else a little mad that att would take such an amazing and exciting device and just **** it all up? I was SO excited for this. Now, because they cant be reasonable, I gotta settle for something else. REALLY ATT? You're asking too much for the kit but I would have paid it if not for the ridiculous tethering requirement. Can someone justify this? Please? I'd love to see them try
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I'm livid at their pricing model. I can see the phone being $199, I'm ok with that. I was planning on getting the Laptop Dock instead of a NetBook. I was only going to use it via WiFi. But now, I'll have to buy it for $499? AND I'm required to get the most expensive Data plan AND tethering? Uhm, no. Sorry, you can eat it AT&T..
This product is really a game changer, and they had a great opportunity to come out strong with this type of convergence device and make it popular. Now? It will be hyped up, no one will but it, and it will fade into existence.

g0nk said:
I'm livid at their pricing model. I can see the phone being $199, I'm ok with that. I was planning on getting the Laptop Dock instead of a NetBook. I was only going to use it via WiFi. But now, I'll have to buy it for $499? AND I'm required to get the most expensive Data plan AND tethering? Uhm, no. Sorry, you can eat it AT&T..
This product is really a game changer, and they had a great opportunity to come out strong with this type of convergence device and make it popular. Now? It will be hyped up, no one will but it, and it will fade into existence.
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Tethering killed the deal for me too. ATT blew it

Yes I just saw that. Att can gtfo; I am definitely not getting this phone.
Captivate 2.2.1 Paragon

ECdOc said:
I'm pretty sure that I will now not be getting this phone, and most likely will be leaving AT&T. My contract has been up for some time, I was looking forward to upgrading to the Atrix. Forcing the tethering plan for a non-tethered device killed it for me, as well as the ludicrous pricing but I could have dealt with the pricing. Too bad AT&T really screwed this up, I was looking forward to this and was convinced to buy it up until now.
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This is me exactly. I have been on AT&T since 2000 (well, the name has changed a few times) but this is unacceptable, I wanted the Atrix so badly and I am so angry that they screwed it up like this.
Well my wife wanted a Verizon iPhone anyway.
Goodbye, AT&T!

I'm confused about the "tethering required" part. I'm seeing it kind of mentioned, but only with the dock? The webpage and quote #2 in the pr says the phone itself only requires the $15 data plan.

OMG.. $500 for a freakin laptop dock. That is insane. FU ATT. I was going to buy the atrix off contract to keep my plan. ATT rapes it's customers.

Yaotl said:
I'm confused about the "tethering required" part. I'm seeing it kind of mentioned, but only with the dock? The webpage and quote #2 in the pr says the phone itself only requires the $15 data plan.
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We are all confused about the "tethering required".
AT&T NEEDS to look up the definition of device tethering. Wikipedia has one HERE. It is clearly connecting a computer to a mobile device in order to access the internet. The laptop dock can not be classified as a computer as it does not function without the phone being connected to it. If they say it is a computer, they need to look HERE for the definition of computer.

Too damn much, sorry. Their greed is going to kill this brilliant platform before it even gets off the ground.
I was willing to shell out $500, even if it meant pinching my nose and going with AT&T, but that extra tethering charge is complete bull****. Sorry AT&T, but no sale.

I wonder. What would happen if you plugged the phone into the dock and did NOT have the tethering plan? They specifically mentioned firefox needs it. is it possible another browser would work without tethering? Because if you lose the tethering I would be willing to spend $499 on the whole kit

Inspire for me!
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

bose.jhebert said:
I wonder. What would happen if you plugged the phone into the dock and did NOT have the tethering plan? They specifically mentioned firefox needs it. is it possible another browser would work without tethering? Because if you lose the tethering I would be willing to spend $499 on the whole kit
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I was curious about this as well. Indeed if you buy the laptop dock from AT&T, to get the subsidized price you gotta get tethering. What if we obtain the dock through other channels and start using it. Also, beyond the laptop dock...You can use the webtop interface through the other dock and even without a dock i believe when hooked up properly...will those methods also require the tethering plan, I am assuming it would but how will they know if you are using it in that way?

ECdOc said:
I was curious about this as well. Indeed if you buy the laptop dock from AT&T, to get the subsidized price you gotta get tethering. What if we obtain the dock through other channels and start using it. Also, beyond the laptop dock...You can use the webtop interface through the other dock and even without a dock i believe when hooked up properly...will those methods also require the tethering plan, I am assuming it would but how will they know if you are using it in that way?
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Well, they stripped out the native mobile hotspot. Maybe they've found a way to make Firefox not connect unless you have the tethering plan. Who knows?

Hopefully the laptop dock/webtop will still work on wifi if you don't have a tethering plan? I'll try to get the laptop shell elsewhere for cheaper.
Edit: but only if I can get it cheaper then a reasonable tablet. I'd rather have a tablet, so it has to be a lot cheaper

miztic said:
Hopefully the laptop dock/webtop will still work on wifi if you don't have a tethering plan? I'll try to get the laptop shell elsewhere for cheaper.
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It could be the case that you can use it over wifi... the press release states
3. Laptop Dock - Firefox browser use with AT&T Mobile Broadband requires Tethering Plan.
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Only suggesting you need tethering with AT&T mobile broadband, not mentioning wifi. Still, not cool.

Atrix Motorola LapDock Offer is a rip off. Beware!

The LapDock requires an additional purchase of a tethering plan, which is a complete scam! The LapDock does not function at all UNLESS the phone is connected, essentially making this $400+ piece of **** nothing more than a DUMB TERMINAL. I asked them why they require a tethering plan when the machine itself does not work without the phone and serves no other purpose than being an alternative HID to the touch screen, and was merely shown a piece of paper saying the LapDock requires the purchase of a tethering plan. What a pile of fresh excrement.
The sales rep thanked me after I purchased the Atrix (sans LapDock) for explaining it in a way he understood better (and even said he wouldn't purchase it). You're better off getting the multimedia connection that comes with a mouse, keyboard, and docking station and just using that. No tethering required.

I got my Lapdock without a tethering plan and use it all the time; there's several threads on here how to do it. It only requires you to get tethering if you get it as part of the $100 instant rebate, $100 mail-in rebate through AT&T. Sounds like you were just misinformed. AT&T will sell you the dock without a tethering plan AT RETAIL COST. If you want the discount, you have to sign up for tethering to get it. I don't really see why you're so upset about this.

I can't believe you said that. There are so many posts addressing to that issue.

I'm using the laptop dock without a tether plan too, though I'm still a little too nervous to change my apn settings so I just don't use the full fledge firefox when using my data connection, just use skyfire or dolphinHD instead. works great.

Ririal said:
AT&T will sell you the dock without a tethering plan AT RETAIL COST. If you want the discount, you have to sign up for tethering to get it.
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The crud thing about getting the dock without the tethering plan at retail cost is that the device in itself is definitely worth even close to $500. It's a glorified shell that has a screen, keyboard and battery. If the price drops to something reasonable, I'd say under a netbook price, then I would consider buying it outright. Until then, it is still a rip off, tethering plan or not.

... People seem to be forgetting that the tethering plan is not under contract? In other words, sign up for the tethering plan, get your $100 back immediately and your $100 MIR, then drop the tethering part of your data plan. Or, if you have access to AT&T Premier, sign up for the tethering plan, get your $200 back immediately, and drop the tethering part of your data plan (yay not having the MIR!).

Sogarth said:
... People seem to be forgetting that the tethering plan is not under contract? In other words, sign up for the tethering plan, get your $100 back immediately and your $100 MIR, then drop the tethering part of your data plan. Or, if you have access to AT&T Premier, sign up for the tethering plan, get your $200 back immediately, and drop the tethering part of your data plan (yay not having the MIR!).
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I have heard this from many places, and I'm not doubting that you know this, bus is there anyone who's done this successfully already? I think you can understandably see why one would be nervous about trying that out.

irishtexmex said:
I have heard this from many places, and I'm not doubting that you know this, bus is there anyone who's done this successfully already? I think you can understandably see why one would be nervous about trying that out.
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That in particular? Not yet. I can definitely tell you that I changed my data plan a couple of months ago, and it had no affect whatsoever on my contract, though (which is set to expire in 12/11).

changing the data feature makes no change to the contract or the upgrade date.
change it if you want, att won't mess with you. I changed back fro tethering to 2gb and I am fine.

Sogarth said:
... People seem to be forgetting that the tethering plan is not under contract? In other words, sign up for the tethering plan, get your $100 back immediately and your $100 MIR, then drop the tethering part of your data plan. Or, if you have access to AT&T Premier, sign up for the tethering plan, get your $200 back immediately, and drop the tethering part of your data plan (yay not having the MIR!).
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Yeah but this only works with new contracts or upgrades. If I want to buy the dock at those prices I need to sign up for contract or upgrade. I can't just change my plan to tethering and I'll get special pricing.

...in case you didn't know, you get LapDocks at negrielectronics.com for $350. No plan required...

Sogarth said:
... People seem to be forgetting that the tethering plan is not under contract? In other words, sign up for the tethering plan, get your $100 back immediately and your $100 MIR, then drop the tethering part of your data plan. Or, if you have access to AT&T Premier, sign up for the tethering plan, get your $200 back immediately, and drop the tethering part of your data plan (yay not having the MIR!).
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Yea.... but last i checked, doing so means that if you still have an unlimited data plan, you would not be able to get it back if you follow your procedure. Pretty sure if you voluntarily change your data package to a tethering package, you lose your ability to switch back to the unlimited.

I am sorry that I had to revive this thread.
I have AT&T premier and one offer states that I will get the Atrix/Lapdock bundle for $300, but this requires a $45 dollar tethering plan. So, if I get the tethering plan and the bundle for a discounted price, then quit the tethering plan in favor of a 2GB plan, I will not have to pay the $45?
Also, another offer states that accessories are 50% off. Will this offer work on the refurbished Lapdock that is now $175?

Doubt it. Most offers excluded the lapdock. A couple have worked but it was priced higher then also. Go through the checkout process minus the last that actually makes the purchase go through and the price should tell you.
Sent from the coolest voided warranty phone ever.

The offer just says accessories. It has no restrictions, so can I fight for a lower price?

You could try calling one of the stores, but I had no luck a few months ago using AT&T Premier for the full priced laptop dock. I called a few stores, tried their main phone line and no luck. The 25% off coupon worked for me

kiwiluver75 said:
The offer just says accessories. It has no restrictions, so can I fight for a lower price?
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If you read the fine print of the offer the offer is void for Apple products, netbooks, tablets, prepaid cards, photo frame, lapdock for atrix. I just got a refurbed dock on Friday and the code didn't apply, but at least they aren't making you sign up for tethering plan

So, because the 25% discount is not available anymore, there is no possible way of getting a refurbished lapdock for less than $175?
As far as I can see, they just say further restrictions do apply, but do not explicitly state them. Where does it explicitly state them?

In a few months they will be sold at fire sale prices. Nobody is buying them in any significant volume. Then after that of course they will be valuable on ebay as they aren't being made anymore. lol
here in Oz, they tried to sell the Samsung Galaxy Tab at prices above that of entry level ipad. no more than 6 months after release our equivalent of Verizon or AT&T fire sales their entire stock at close fo 1/3rd of what they were originally asking for.
Yeah the guy who priced them should be slapped repeatedly

AT&T Gunning for Tethering Users

Please respond here if you are using the portable wifi feature of your nexus one and getting any SMS or e-mail notification from AT&T that they want you to pay for tethering.
I hear stories about people who get the "unlimited" data plan and then straight up abuse it (by providing internet for their entire household), which is probably why this is happening.
150+GB a month is what I consider abuse btw.

I don't see why you should pay for tethering. I think its just another way for them to make more money. Maybe for some people they don't wanna pay to have a separate internet source when they can use their phones as their internet source. I don't tether since atm I don't have unlimited data lol.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using XDA App

Should be free and only pay for data...just another reason why I left at$t years ago!

I have T-Mobile and as of right now my "unlimited" is still unlimited but once you exceed 5GB for the month is DRAMATICALLY slows down.
I just moved in to a new place with my wife and son and I'm trying to cut down on extra bills (I'm the only working parent right now) so I don't have internet, I just tether off my phone.
I just exceeded 5GB for the first time ever and its horrible. I'm moving so slow, on my phone that is, its unreal.

uoY_redruM said:
I have T-Mobile and as of right now my "unlimited" is still unlimited but once you exceed 5GB for the month is DRAMATICALLY slows down.
I just moved in to a new place with my wife and son and I'm trying to cut down on extra bills (I'm the only working parent right now) so I don't have internet, I just tether off my phone.
I just exceeded 5GB for the first time ever and its horrible. I'm moving so slow, on my phone that is, its unreal.
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Click to collapse
That is a bummer and I'm in simular boat...
Check this work around info for some possible help:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=863923

The only people getting flagged are iPhone accounts that are extreme abusers.
If you are abusing the service that much, then you should be paying for the higher package IMO.
I tether on my unlimited plan and have never had a problem, but I also don't abuse it. I barely break 1gb a month.

GldRush98 said:
The only people getting flagged are iPhone accounts that are extreme abusers.
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Because iOS's silly separate tethering config makes it easy to know exactly how much it's getting used. Not so simple on phones that route tethered data through the normal APN.

Yeah, I use tethering on my N1 on AT&T everyday and I haven't gotten anything from them yet. I don't abuse it, but where my house is, sort of in the woods (in Pennsylvania) where I can't get anything better than dial-up, so I use it just for basic email, Facebook, etc.

3UK now offer "all you can eat" data on Pay as you go. i plan to swap my T-Mobile SIM to my old 3 after this contract is up, i really hope the plan is still available then as i can see this being abused from day one!!

I tether my tablet to my phone almost daily, but it's pretty small usage. I am only using 300-400 megs a month on 3G now since AT&T took my unlimited away when they screwed with my account a while back. I mostly update or do stuff on wifi at home.

machina77 said:
3UK now offer "all you can eat" data on Pay as you go. i plan to swap my T-Mobile SIM to my old 3 after this contract is up, i really hope the plan is still available then as i can see this being abused from day one!!
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They don't allow tethering on PAYG. Same as Giffgaff, unlimited data without FUP, but no tethering.

I got a similar message from Cincinnati Bell Wireless, but they have not charged me. I don't really use tethering all that much.

Rusty! said:
They don't allow tethering on PAYG. Same as Giffgaff, unlimited data without FUP, but no tethering.
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Ah! cheers for that info

Doesn't mean they'll ever notice you doing it, of course

XDA is no longer worth my time.

What I am having trouble understanding is what evidence is at&t Mobility using to determine if one is tethering or not.
They have a few choices, but as far as I can tell, none of them are perfect and all will have false positives.
Dan

XOOM / FLIP PHONE vs. XOOM / SMART PHONE

I have a Droid X now, along with the Xoom. I have a 3G Xoom (no 3G service right now) and I tether it to my X while on the road or use WiFi at home and where it is available on the road. I am sure I am not the only one that has this same set up.
I find myself rarely using the X any more, other than phone calls. My X contract is up soon so I thought about just going with a small flip phone and then activating the 3G service (and 4G once the xoom is upgraded and it comes to my area). No need in paying for 2 different data plans when I rarely use the X any more for data. And the Xoom will be faster on 4G rather than tethering it to 3G.
Anyone else thought of doing this? Just curious...

Guess not. lol

I'm going to go with a dumb phone soon. I already have the 3g going on the Xoom and am not getting much use out of my android phone.

The Xoom is great and yes I find myself using my Android phone a bit less now, but I'm never going to go back down to a dumbphone lol. But to each their own.
My biggest reason for this is the Verizon's data price for tablets are RETARDEDLY expensive. I get unlimited data through T-Mobile on my G2, and if I want any decent amount of data on Verizon with my Xoom, I'm gonna pay more for just data than I do for my entire bill on T-mobile. So that's my big reason why. Its drastically cheaper to tether.
Not to mention that no matter how great the Xoom is, I'm not carrying it around unless I have a bag/backpack with me. There are plenty of times I still want/need a smartphone and don't have the Xoom with me.
FWIW you should go read the other huge thread on this. There was a big discussion a few weeks back on the Tablet + Dumbphone decision.

martonikaj said:
The Xoom is great and yes I find myself using my Android phone a bit less now, but I'm never going to go back down to a dumbphone lol. But to each their own.
My biggest reason for this is the Verizon's data price for tablets are RETARDEDLY expensive. I get unlimited data through T-Mobile on my G2, and if I want any decent amount of data on Verizon with my Xoom, I'm gonna pay more for just data than I do for my entire bill on T-mobile. So that's my big reason why. Its drastically cheaper to tether.
Not to mention that no matter how great the Xoom is, I'm not carrying it around unless I have a bag/backpack with me. There are plenty of times I still want/need a smartphone and don't have the Xoom with me.
FWIW you should go read the other huge thread on this. There was a big discussion a few weeks back on the Tablet + Dumbphone decision.
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Was the other discussion in the Xoom forum? I couldn't find it.
My reasoning is that it won't be long before Verizon and other carriers start buckling down on tethering. Whether it is right or wrong is not really the question... I do believe they will start doing it. And if they do, there is no way in hell I am going to pay for data for both my X (which I use much less now) and the Xoom.

ghoticov said:
Was the other discussion in the Xoom forum? I couldn't find it.
My reasoning is that it won't be long before Verizon and other carriers start buckling down on tethering. Whether it is right or wrong is not really the question... I do believe they will start doing it. And if they do, there is no way in hell I am going to pay for data for both my X (which I use much less now) and the Xoom.
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Even if you for some reason want to pay Verizon to tether your Droid X, its still cheaper than paying for independent data on the Xoom.
There of course is the convenience factor of having independent amounts of data on each device. But it depends on how much you wanna pay for it obviously.

martonikaj said:
Even if you for some reason want to pay Verizon to tether your Droid X, its still cheaper than paying for independent data on the Xoom.
There of course is the convenience factor of having independent amounts of data on each device. But it depends on how much you wanna pay for it obviously.
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How is it cheaper? I pay $30 a month for data on my X... it would be another $20 a month to enable tethering via Verizon.
Right no, you can get 1G for $35, right? I use about 3.5-4G a month so I could even get the 5G for $50 and still have room for data.

thought about it but use my phone as mp3 player run tracker and weight room log not to mention when I'm in the car I use it for GPS. Other than the GPS I would look foolish lugging this thing around the track. Keep the smart phone you'll miss it when its gone