Database Users

Just what you always wanted - 2400 page processor manual!

I'm probably the only person on this planet that would ever download a 20.5-meg, 2426-page document titled "S5PC110 RISC Microprocessor User's Manual", but if there are other hardware freaks out there interested, here you go:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=repository&id=644&c=samsung_s5pc110_microprocessor_user_manual_1.00
As you may or may not know, the S5PC110, better known as Hummingbird, is the SoC (System on a Chip) that is the brain of your Epic. Now, when you have those moments when you really just gotta know the memory buffer size for your H.264 encoder or are dying to pore over a block diagram of your SGX540 GPU architecture, you can!
( Note: It does get a little bit dry at parts. Unless you're an ARM engineer, I suppose. )

Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol

now we can overclock the gpu
/sarcasm

cbusillo said:
Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol
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Click to collapse
Hah, because I know exactly squat about Android development. Hardware is more my thing, though if I find some spare time to play around with the Android SDK maybe that can change.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

This actually is really exciting news. RISC architectures in general, especially the ARM instruction set is great and honestly it would so the works a lot of good kicking the chains of x86
Sent from my Nexus S with a keyboard

Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.

sauron0101 said:
Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.
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Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..

gTen said:
Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..
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No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.

Well, I got the Epic knowing Tegra 2 was coming in a few months with next-gen performance. I was badly in need of a new phone and the Epic, while not a Cortex A9, is no slouch.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

sauron0101 said:
No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
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Click to collapse
Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.
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The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..

gTen said:
Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
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Click to collapse
AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf

Electrofreak said:
AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf
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Click to collapse
I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/

gTen said:
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
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Here are some additional benchmarks comparing the Galaxy Tab to the Viewsonic G Tablet:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4062/samsung-galaxy-tab-the-anandtech-review/5
It's possible that the Tegra 2 isn't optimized yet. Not to mention, Honeycomb will be the release that makes the most of dual cores. However, there are lackluster performance gains in terms of graphics - most of it seems to be purely CPU gains in performance.
I'm not entirely sure that Neocore is representative of real world performance either. It's possible that it may have been optimized for some platforms. Furthermore, I would not be surprised if Neocore gave inflated scores for the Snapdragon and it's Adreno graphics platform. Of course, neither is Quadrant.
I think that real world games like Quake III based games are the way to go, although until we see more graphics demanding games, I suppose that there's little to test (we're expecting more games for Android next year).
Finally, we've gotten to a point for web browsing where its the data connection HSPA+, LTE, or WiMAX that will dictate how fast pages load. It's like upgrading the CPU for a PC. I currently run an overclocked q6600 - if I were to upgrade to say a Sandy Bridge when it comes out next year, I don't expect significant improvements in real world browsing performance.
Eventually, the smartphone market will face the same problem that the PC market does. Apart from us enthusiasts who enjoy benchmarking and overclocking, apart from high end gaming, and perhaps some specialized operations (like video encoding which I do a bit of), you really don't need the latest and greatest CPU or 6+ GB of RAM (which many new desktops come with). Same with high end GPUs. Storage follows the same dilemna. I imagine that as storage grows, I'll be storing FLAC music files instead of AAC, MP3, or OGG, and more video. I will also use my cell phone to replace my USB key drive. Otherwise, there's no need for bigger storage.

gTen said:
I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/
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Click to collapse
Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.

Electrofreak said:
Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?

gTen said:
I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
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Click to collapse
I'm one of Taylor's (unofficial) tech consultants, and I spoke with him regarding that article. Though, credit where it's due to Taylor, he's been digging stuff up recently that I don't have a clue about. We've talked about Honeycomb and dual-core tablets, and since Honeycomb will be the first release of Android to support tablets officially, and since Motorola seems to be holding back the release of its Tegra 2 tablet until Honeycomb (quickly checks AndroidAndMe to make sure I haven't said anything Taylor hasn't already said), and rumors say that Honeycomb will have dual-core support, it all makes sense.
But yes, the whitepaper is the one he used to base that article on.
gTen said:
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android 2.2 was used in all of their tests according to the footnotes in the document. While I believe that Android 2.2 is capable of using both cores simultaneously, I don't believe it is capable of threading them separately. But that's just my theory. I'm just going off of what the Gingerbread documentation from Google says; and unfortunately there is no mention of improved multi-core processor support in Gingerbread.
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.3-highlights.html
As for FPS and the dithering... they don't really go there; the whitepaper is clearly focused on CPU performance, and so it features benchmark scores and timed results. I take it all with a pinch of salt anyhow; despite the graphs and such, it's still basically an NVIDIA advertisement.
That said, Taylor has been to one of their expos or whatever you call it, and he's convinced that the Tegra 2 GPU will perform several times better than the SGX 540 in the Galaxy S phones. I'm not so sure I'm convinced... I've seen comparable performance benchmarks come from the LG Tegra 2 phone, but Taylor claims it was an early build with and he's seen even better performance. Time will tell I suppose...
EDIT - As for not being able to access the .pdfs, what are you talking about?! XDA app / browser and Adobe Reader!

geforce ULP vs Adreno 220 vs PowerVR 543

This post is not to start a flaming war against any of the devices using any of these chips.
I just wanted to start this post for information.
Im a bit concerned with the geforce ULP which shows only around 20-30% increase over the previous PowerVR 540 chip.
The PowerVR 543 is supposed to be a multicore version that is much faster than the PowerVR 540 (Also, the PowerVR543 dual core is rumored to be in the ipad 2)
Additionally, the new adreno 220 has been showing off its tech and is rumored to be in the new dual core qualcomm chips.
The problem i see is, that while the dual core CPUs seem to be equally matched in terms of A5 vs tegra 2 vs dual core qualcomm, the geforce ULP seems to be heavily outclassed by the powerVR 543 (perhaps even the single core) and the adreno 220.
Does this worry anyone?
I know that the games coming out for the tegra 2 are looking quite amazing, but at the same time people are saying no low framerates, and when I looked at dungeon defenders HD in the store, the framerates, while playable, where not that high..
If the ipad 2 is going to have a dual core PowerVR SGx543 then it is going to crush the geforce ULP. And the adreno 220 looks to be a high performer as well.
I feel apprehensive jumping into a technology (the tegra 2 with geforce ULP) that is already heavily outclassed by its competition (ipad 2's A5 with power VR 543)
I dont want to get into a competition between iOS and honeycomb - and I agree that it depends fully on how the developers utilize the chip - but with such a huge performance difference, I can see developers making more amazing games with the faster chips.

The Tegra 2 is fine for gaming. It can handle its own. Media playback is an entirely other issue and the Tegra 2 is a failure in that regard.
We haven't seen either the Adreno or the SGX543 benchmarked yet at all, so its too early to say they are better than the Tegra 2. Also, I feel as though Nvidia is going to be pushing for a lot of games to be made specifically for the Tegra 2. If that is the case its going to fragment the Android market even further.
Its not fair to look at the Xoom's benchmark due to the much higher resolution skewing results downwards, so lets look at current generation phones:
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You can see the best performer right now is the old SGX540 clocked at 300mhz. I would bet that the SGX543 is a monster.

muyoso said:
The Tegra 2 is fine for gaming. It can handle its own. Media playback is an entirely other issue and the Tegra 2 is a failure in that regard.
We haven't seen either the Adreno or the SGX543 benchmarked yet at all, so its too early to say they are better than the Tegra 2. Also, I feel as though Nvidia is going to be pushing for a lot of games to be made specifically for the Tegra 2. If that is the case its going to fragment the Android market even further.
Its not fair to look at the Xoom's benchmark due to the much higher resolution skewing results downwards, so lets look at current generation phones:
You can see the best performer right now is the old SGX540 clocked at 300mhz. I would bet that the SGX543 is a monster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The tegra 2 was rebenched after that using the viewsonic G-tablet and it did better than the SGX 540.
Refer to:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4144/...gra-2-review-the-first-dual-core-smartphone/8
and
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4054/first-look-viewsonic-gtablet-and-tegra-2-performance-preview/2
(on the last link - look to the bottom of the page with the "updated" benchmarks

Those are the exact same numbers. 25.2 for the Optimus 2x. 18.9 for the G-Tablet.

Flaunt77 said:
The tegra 2 was rebenched after that using the viewsonic G-tablet and it did better than the SGX 540.
Refer to:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4144/...gra-2-review-the-first-dual-core-smartphone/8
and
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4054/first-look-viewsonic-gtablet-and-tegra-2-performance-preview/2
(on the last link - look to the bottom of the page with the "updated" benchmarks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Judging by these articles - Tegra 2 is doing great.
Besides, nVidia is excellent when it comes to updating drivers on their GPUs and working with game devs to help them use the GPU's potential.
So, if they do the same for their ULPs, we should expect frequent Tegra 2 updates and great games coming.
Actually, even now, a mere week from release - check Tegra zone and see the amazing games that will be released this/next month. Mindblowing.

DarkDvr said:
Judging by these articles - Tegra 2 is doing great.
Besides, nVidia is excellent when it comes to updating drivers on their GPUs and working with game devs to help them use the GPU's potential.
So, if they do the same for their ULPs, we should expect frequent Tegra 2 updates and great games coming.
Actually, even now, a mere week from release - check Tegra zone and see the amazing games that will be released this/next month. Mindblowing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree NOW that it may be the fastest - but in one week when the ipad 2 comes out - it will supposedly do LESS THAN HALF of the ipad 2 graphics capability - thats a huge hit in performance.
THis means that the ipad 2 can handle a class of games far above what the tegra can. Its just unsettling is all.

Flaunt77 said:
I agree NOW that it may be the fastest - but in one week when the ipad 2 comes out - it will supposedly do LESS THAN HALF of the ipad 2 graphics capability - thats a huge hit in performance.
THis means that the ipad 2 can handle a class of games far above what the tegra can. Its just unsettling is all.
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Click to collapse
The iPad 2 is not going to be 2x faster than the Tegra 2. The graphics processor it uses will handily beat the Tegra 2, but not by 100%. It really depends on how many cores the SGX543 has. Wikipedia says it can be anywhere from 2-16 cores.

muyoso said:
The iPad 2 is not going to be 2x faster than the Tegra 2. The graphics processor it uses will handily beat the Tegra 2, but not by 100%. It really depends on how many cores the SGX543 has. Wikipedia says it can be anywhere from 2-16 cores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i guess we will find out on march 11th
but if the SGX543 has 2 cores and each single core is faster than the tegra 2 geforce ULP, then combined it will likely be 75-85% faster than the tegra 2 (i agree no more than double)
Having said that, that is still a huge upgrade.

Flaunt77 said:
i guess we will find out on march 11th
but if the SGX543 has 2 cores and each single core is faster than the tegra 2 geforce ULP, then combined it will likely be 75-85% faster than the tegra 2 (i agree no more than double)
Having said that, that is still a huge upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget the Tegra 2 has EIGHT cores in the GPU. Can't wait to see the anandtech review on the iPad2. Gonna be interesting.

well ipad 2 was released and although an apple hater i do have to admit..we gentlemen have been obliterated..its a dual 543..everything android devices had to offer so far has been surpassed by double the ammount..was considering the atrix,but certainly not gonna buy a device incinerated already, as it is...xoom is still a great tablet and honeycomb an amazing os...but i think its time price is lowered..we have been outclassed twofold.

chris2busy said:
well ipad 2 was released and although an apple hater i do have to admit..we gentlemen have been obliterated..its a dual 543..everything android devices had to offer so far has been surpassed by double the ammount..was considering the atrix,but certainly not gonna buy a device incinerated already, as it is...xoom is still a great tablet and honeycomb an amazing os...but i think its time price is lowered..we have been outclassed twofold.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not released yet. We will see the benchmarks when anandtech releases their review. Anandtech released their Xoom review the day before launch. If they do something similar for the iPad2, we will know in 2 days.

muyoso said:
Its not released yet. We will see the benchmarks when anandtech releases their review. Anandtech released their Xoom review the day before launch. If they do something similar for the iPad2, we will know in 2 days.
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Click to collapse
well you kinda know the ooutcome without waiting...each sgx543 core outperforms a tegra2 by roughly 50% ..with 75% more fillrate,huge shaders e.t.c ..and since they went dual core on gpu, well..they should be around double in performance terms against xoom,maybe more,given xoom is running on higher res..what IS surprising is that samsung made the chips for them but still on their own products chose the lesser exynos/t2..

Wasn't it pa semi and intrinsity that made the chips for apple? Samsung also works with intrinsity to design their soc.
I've read a rumor on I want to say anandtech, that the CPU cores of the ipad 2 may only be 1Ghz cortex A8 vs our dual A9s. That gives us a heafty lead in the computing department. Also just because a mobile gpu has the potential to be rediculously fast, doesn't meant it actually will be when used in the soc. It it depends on frequencies and bandwidths as well. For instance the TI omap4 uses the same gpu as galaxy s, vr540, but handily wins benchmarking due to its dual A9s and dual memory channels. And if you guys are worried about cores, we basically have 4 split into eight, so eat your heart out, dual core gpus!
The fight definitely ain't over yet fellas! Have some faith in nVidia!

I'm not very sure about the architecture of mobile GPUs, but if it is in any way similar to those of desktop GPUs then the number of cores and the core speeds matter only upto to a certain extent. If you look at AMD GPUs, they are filled with a lot of cores (~ 800 is common) running at pretty good speeds, while the equivalent NVidia GPUs have about quarter or even less cores (~200 is common with the newer fermi cards having more cores) at usually lower speeds . But NVidia makes up the performance with its memory bandwidth. The end result -- both GPUs have a similar performance. My guess is it would be the same with these mobile GPUs. Just my 2c.

Flaunt77 said:
i guess we will find out on march 11th
but if the SGX543 has 2 cores and each single core is faster than the tegra 2 geforce ULP, then combined it will likely be 75-85% faster than the tegra 2 (i agree no more than double)
Having said that, that is still a huge upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually they have and it blew XOOM out the water I mean earth. PowerVR 543 is much better and that is why I am suprised that Nvidia didn't do enough for their GPU. I was also suprised that Samsung went with them instead of their accomplishment with the PowerVr

i sstill dont ththink those benchmarks are right because I don't thing the software was optimized for tergra2

Flaunt77 said:
This post is not to start a flaming war against any of the devices using any of these chips.
I just wanted to start this post for information.
Im a bit concerned with the geforce ULP which shows only around 20-30% increase over the previous PowerVR 540 chip.
The PowerVR 543 is supposed to be a multicore version that is much faster than the PowerVR 540 (Also, the PowerVR543 dual core is rumored to be in the ipad 2)
Additionally, the new adreno 220 has been showing off its tech and is rumored to be in the new dual core qualcomm chips.
The problem i see is, that while the dual core CPUs seem to be equally matched in terms of A5 vs tegra 2 vs dual core qualcomm, the geforce ULP seems to be heavily outclassed by the powerVR 543 (perhaps even the single core) and the adreno 220.
Does this worry anyone?
I know that the games coming out for the tegra 2 are looking quite amazing, but at the same time people are saying no low framerates, and when I looked at dungeon defenders HD in the store, the framerates, while playable, where not that high..
If the ipad 2 is going to have a dual core PowerVR SGx543 then it is going to crush the geforce ULP. And the adreno 220 looks to be a high performer as well.
I feel apprehensive jumping into a technology (the tegra 2 with geforce ULP) that is already heavily outclassed by its competition (ipad 2's A5 with power VR 543)
I dont want to get into a competition between iOS and honeycomb - and I agree that it depends fully on how the developers utilize the chip - but with such a huge performance difference, I can see developers making more amazing games with the faster chips.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
muyoso said:
The iPad 2 is not going to be 2x faster than the Tegra 2. The graphics processor it uses will handily beat the Tegra 2, but not by 100%. It really depends on how many cores the SGX543 has. Wikipedia says it can be anywhere from 2-16 cores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flaunt77 said:
i guess we will find out on march 11th
but if the SGX543 has 2 cores and each single core is faster than the tegra 2 geforce ULP, then combined it will likely be 75-85% faster than the tegra 2 (i agree no more than double)
Having said that, that is still a huge upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
muyoso said:
Don't forget the Tegra 2 has EIGHT cores in the GPU. Can't wait to see the anandtech review on the iPad2. Gonna be interesting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know this thread is ancient, but I just have to call all of you morons, especially you muyoso.
Not only is all of that wrong, but the benchmark used has glitches with the SGX 540, putting it at a disadvantage, also the galaxy s phones are framecapped.

Adreno 225 vs "New" Mali 400MP4

So I have been doing a lot of research looking for what will be better and I am guessing that the Mali 400 is going to out perform the Adreno 225. I wish android had a solid GPU test that would give something close to real world results. But if you take a look at these articles you will see on paper the Adreno is the same as the Apple 4S's Power VR543MP2
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5559/...mance-preview-msm8960-adreno-225-benchmarks/3
Now the International version will have the new Exynos 4 Quad (4412) Quad Core Cortex A9 but the US version is rumored to have a Dual Core Qualcomm Snapdragon MSM8960 with the Adreno 225.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5811/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-preview
and here are some other benchmarks just to sum up the difference in performance.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5810/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-performance-preview
The main thing I am worried about is GPU performance the CPUs in just about every phone out right not seem over kill. I want to make sure the phone I buy will be able to run FPSE(Playstation Emulator) and N64oid(N64 Emulator) smooth. FPSE now has an Open GL plugin that needs a hard core GPU to run well. My Galaxy nexus is just not cutting it anymore.

So............... get the international version.

cmd512 said:
So............... get the international version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LTE Speed vs 3G Speed = not worth it.
Don't get me wrong I want a phone with a power house GPU but if the mobile connection is slow its just not worth it. I'm on Verizon and I don't want to move away from their LTE.

Zzim said:
LTE Speed vs 3G Speed = not worth it.
Don't get me wrong I want a phone with a power house GPU but if the mobile connection is slow its just not worth it. I'm on Verizon and I don't want to move away from their LTE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear ya, LTE is blazing fast. But on my unbranded SGS2, I get downloads of up to 7.5Mbps, pay $10 a month for unlimited HSPA+ data w/ tethering, and everything is plenty fast for what I do on my phone. So, while LTE is tempting for sure, still doesn't outweigh the other benefits.
Now, if I ever need my phone to seed torrents or something, I'll have to look at LTE then... hah.

cmd512 said:
I hear ya, LTE is blazing fast. But on my unbranded SGS2, I get downloads of up to 7.5Mbps, pay $10 a month for unlimited HSPA+ data w/ tethering, and everything is plenty fast for what I do on my phone. So, while LTE is tempting for sure, still doesn't outweigh the other benefits.
Now, if I ever need my phone to seed torrents or something, I'll have to look at LTE then... hah.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you with ATT because I can get a line through my work for 20 a month unlimited everything. 7.5 would be enough speed to make me switch and how consistent are these speeds?

How could the just give the us version a dual core? That makes the phone a very slight upgrade to the s2
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA

@ Op
did you see the date of the article regarding "Mobile SoC GPU Comparison" ? its dated february and they are comparing with the sgs2 mali 400 gpu not the one in sgs3. the new mali gpu is already beating all the current lineup of many gpus in many becnhmarks

bala_gamer said:
@ Op
did you see the date of the article regarding "Mobile SoC GPU Comparison" ? its dated february and they are comparing with the sgs2 mali 400 gpu not the one in sgs3. the new mali gpu is already beating all the current lineup of many gpus in many becnhmarks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The other articles were just to show the performance of the 225 this article shows how the new Mali will run http://www.anandtech.com/show/5811/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-preview
That article also show that the GS2(Mali400) and the GS3(Mali400MP4) are different in some way.

Zzim said:
Are you with ATT because I can get a line through my work for 20 a month unlimited everything. 7.5 would be enough speed to make me switch and how consistent are these speeds?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At work (average congestion), it's consistently 7Mbps+. In areas of great congestion (the mall, etc), it does slow down, but again, for work E-mails, surfing the web, youtube, etc, I've never had issues. Of course, I'm in Austin, TX as well, and I've heard HSPA+ speeds are very much region specific.
If you can get a line through from work with unlimited everything, they may be able to get you onto the smartphone data plan tier, which some folks have gotten up to 10-11+Mpbs. I'm on the $10 a month unlimited non-smartphone plan, so I think AT&T caps it at around 7.5-8Mpbs. Still though, plenty fast for what I do with my phone.
(And, the unlimited tethering is a blessing when you're in airports and stuff. Our US airports blow as there is almost never free WIFI.)

Zzim said:
The other articles were just to show the performance of the 225 this article shows how the new Mali will run http://www.anandtech.com/show/5811/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-preview
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the scorecharts does shows the new mali400 topping the chart with good margin. what else do you need from a gpu ?

The SGS3's Mali-400 is just overclocked.
Anyways, if the US SGS3 comes with the S4 Pro (which has the new Adreno 320) then the difference in GPU will probably be minor.

dude have you seen those scores ? it beats the 4s graphics which we cant deny has a great gpu...
this is more than just an overclocked mali400 ... it may still be a mali400/mp4 but its not just overclocked its remade and has much higher clocks by the look of it
also im not sure about it coming with the s4 pro with adreno 320... i heard its not ready till end of year at earliest.. the mali-400 was the best android gpu and now its the best mobile gpu out atm

^^
u are right its not only just overclocked,there are some changes in the hardware part which we will know eventually in the upcoming days. i can easily OC my sgs2 mali400 to 400mhz, but you people know it wont give the same result as sgs3 which has much more pixels than s2

urmothersluvr said:
How could the just give the us version a dual core? That makes the phone a very slight upgrade to the s2
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More cores doesn't = faster...
Look at AMD's bulldozer CPU with 8 cores vs Intel's core i5 with 4 cores...the i5 is faster in basically almost everything except for very specalized applications.
Faster cores > more cores.
The LTE dual core version of the SGS3 will use Krait S4 cores which are faster than A9 Exynos cores.
I wished Samsung did dual core A15s instead of Quad Core A9s.

Daemos said:
More cores doesn't = faster...
Look at AMD's bulldozer CPU with 8 cores vs Intel's core i5 with 4 cores...the i5 is faster in basically almost everything except for very specalized applications.
Faster cores > more cores.
The LTE dual core version of the SGS3 will use Krait S4 cores which are faster than A9 Exynos cores.
I wished Samsung did dual core A15s instead of Quad Core A9s.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's be clear on this
CPU vs CPU
Dual core S4 is not quicker than Quad Core Exynos

ph00ny said:
Let's be clear on this
CPU vs CPU
Dual core S4 is not quicker than Quad Core Exynos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm I don't know about that...

Zzim said:
Hmmm I don't know about that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I for one certainly do. The Exynos 4412 uses a 32nm fab process as opposed to nearly every other A9 architecture based processor (like the 4+1 T3) and High K metal gate tech which basically means twice the processing power of the Exynos 4410 dual core with about 20% less power consumption and that's on a core against core basis. The 4410 was used in the Galaxy S II. So even if the Exynos 4412 was dual core, it's already natively 20% more battery efficient and twice as powerful than last year's model. Clearly we're talking about a lot more than just quad vs dual and 28nm vs 32 or 40. There is a LOT that has gone into the design of the Exynos. For instance keeping it the same size physically as the dual core model, or accepting 128 bit instructions rather than the paltry 64 bit instructions most other mobile processors are limited to.
Trust me, do your research, a Google search of Exynos 4412 brought up instant results that detail what a beast this chip set is.
Like these:
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Exyn...re-processor-in-the-Samsung-Galaxy-S3_id29615
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...nos-to-appear-in-Samsung-Galaxy-S-III_id29494
And of course the official press release. Read through this and then the benchmarks you pointed out in the OP (I'm linking em anyway) Anandtech's benchmark tests were performed on demo units on display to handled and groped by hundreds of people. There's no telling how many people had used it before they bench marked it and no telling if they were able to do it clean (reboot device, no other apps running). If not than they tested it after some fairly heavy use and it still proved itself a beast.
http://phandroid.com/2012/04/25/sam...ynos-4-quad-for-their-next-generation-galaxy/
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5810/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-performance-preview
Research is your best friend. If you're looking for the most powerful CPU and GPU on a phone right now, this is it. And when the devs get a hold of it, it will become even better and will really be utilized to its full.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

Gene_Bailey said:
I for one certainly do. The Exynos 4412 uses a 32nm fab process as opposed to nearly every other A9 architecture based processor (like the 4+1 T3) and High K metal gate tech which basically means twice the processing power of the Exynos 4410 dual core with about 20% less power consumption and that's on a core against core basis. The 4410 was used in the Galaxy S II. So even if the Exynos was dual core, it's already natively 20% more battery efficient and twice as powerful. Clearly we're talking about a lot more than just quad vs dual and 28nm vs 32 or 40. There is a LOT that has gone into the design of the Exynos. For instance keeping it the same size physically as the dual core model, or accepting 128 bit instructions rather than the paltry 64 bit instructions most other mobile processors are limited to.
Trust me, do your research, a Google search of Exynos 4412 brought up instant results that detail what a beast this chip set is.
Like these:
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Exyn...re-processor-in-the-Samsung-Galaxy-S3_id29615
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...nos-to-appear-in-Samsung-Galaxy-S-III_id29494
And of course the official press release. Read through this and then the benchmarks you pointed out in the OP (I'm linking em anyway) Anandtech's benchmark tests were performed on demo units on display to handled and groped by hundreds of people. There's no telling how many people had used it before they bench marked it and no telling if they were able to do it clean (reboot device, no other apps running). If not than they tested it after some fairly heavy use and it still proved itself a beast.
http://phandroid.com/2012/04/25/sam...ynos-4-quad-for-their-next-generation-galaxy/
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5810/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-performance-preview
Research is your best friend. If you're looking for the most powerful CPU and GPU on a phone right now, this is it. And when the devs get a hold of it, it will become even better and will really be utilized to its full.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
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Zzim said:
Hmmm I don't know about that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Outside of floating point tests such as linpack, CPU benches will even have quad core tegra3 well ahead of the dual core S4
Quadrant, Antutu, etc will all show the same exact same performance gap and it's a big one
Let's get this straight
Main selling points for Dual Core S4 setup = battery life from 28nm die size and integrated LTE

Spartoi said:
The SGS3's Mali-400 is just overclocked.
Anyways, if the US SGS3 comes with the S4 Pro (which has the new Adreno 320) then the difference in GPU will probably be minor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are wrong,mali 400mp4 is a quad core gpu while mali 400 is a dual core gpu.
I want to see mali 400mp4 against sgs543mp4

Plp are saying the Nexus 7 processor is faster then then the 10. This true?

Thx for any feedback
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

Who's saying that? Lol. Must be mis-informed
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

Nexus 7: 1.2GHz quad core, A9 based
Nexus 10: 1.7GHz dual core, A15 based
It's probably quite difficult to find a use case on a tablet where more than two cores provides any tangible performance increase, but the much higher clock rate and newer architecture should definitely make a difference.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

Benchmarks shows that the new dual core is much faster than the n7 quad. Also the 2gb of ram

I suspect it's mostly because "Plp" don't understand how 2 cores can be faster than 4 cores.
Yes, they can and yes, they are. ARM15 CPUs have a new and vastly superior architecture.

It's top notch. Although core counts are great for marketing, don't get to worried. After people get their hands on it, we will have a better idea of performance. I remain confident I'm about to purchase the most powerful tablet available.
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

Biohazard0289 said:
It's top notch. Although core counts are great for marketing, don't get to worried. After people get their hands on it, we will have a better idea of performance. I remain confident I'm about to purchase the most powerful tablet available.
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically that's not true, the latest iPad, I believe, vastly out performs this thing. That said, how is it gonna make use of all that power other than playing games, which let's face it, that's all iPad buyers do really...
Not like it'll be cracking aircrack dumps eh.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

I saw a benchmark that placed the nexus 10 under the transformer TF300 (antutu). Would this be accurate? I would've thought that the nexus10 would've outperformed the transformer which has a quad core tegra 3 processor.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using xda app-developers app

UndisputedGuy said:
I saw a benchmark that placed the nexus 10 under the transformer TF300 (antutu). Would this be accurate? I would've thought that the nexus10 would've outperformed the transformer which has a quad core tegra 3 processor.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Saw that too, as well benchmarks in which the note 10.1 is having a better performance than the Nexus 10
http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/02/nexus-10-review/
Funnily other sites really do say the Nexus 10 is the fastest they have seen so far.

4z01235 said:
Nexus 7: 1.2GHz quad core, A9 based
Nexus 10: 1.7GHz dual core, A15 based
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4 * 1.2 GHz = 4.8 GHz
2 * 1.7 GHz = 3.4 GHz
Clearly, the Nexus 7 is much faster.
That is the discussion level when people come to the conclusion stated in the topic. Even in benchmarks - which all of the reviewers agree don't mirror the level of performance they experience in real world use - the Nexus 10 comes out way higher than the Nexus 7 while pushing 4 times the pixels! The Nexus 10 runs circles around its little brother...

The differences are so vast, it is almost incomprehensible to some. I'll use my same reference as I do with desktop processors. When quad cores really started coming around and making big appearances; software and games weren't exactly capable of utilizing the abilities. So, an e8400 3.0GHz dual core would out perform it's bigger quad core brother that ran at the same frequency and architecture in a lot of applications. Back in 2008, gaming rigs almost always would sport the dual core processors. Simple fact is that those processors use cache that is on the die. 6mb for two cores is better than 8mb for four cores.
So, until software developers really have a need for a quad core, the dual cores will run with the quad cores just fine. Benchmarking however, almost never show any real world performance. I'm sure this dual core is going to surprise even the more skeptical guys and gals.
Sent from the Blue Kuban on my Epic 4G Touch

Maxey said:
Saw that too, as well benchmarks in which the note 10.1 is having a better performance than the Nexus 10
http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/02/nexus-10-review/
Funnily other sites really do say the Nexus 10 is the fastest they have seen so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The benchmarks are selling the N10 very, very short. There is a great review linked in this post where the author says exactly that.

Here's the post that stamps its feet and declares the absolute truth:
Cores aren't everything.
And you can think that we're just a bunch of fanboys trying to justify the use of dual core in the Nexus 10, but even non-fanboys who know how these processors work would tell you a dual core A15 is far more powerful than a quad core A9.
Now everything below this post is purely observation based (I'm not an engineer nor have I really studied up on computer parts), but I think it gives a casual user a good idea of how a CPU works.
So, before you go out screaming "wtf. why are there only 2 cores in the nexus 10. lol so noob," ask yourself this: what do extra cores even do? If you can't answer that, then don't complain because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. It's not simple multiplication of the frequency (for example, 4 x 1.2ghz = 4.8ghz). A 4.8ghz phone would be able to run Crysis without a problem (of course with a dedicated GPU, but that's besides the point). That's obviously not the case.
The major difference between the A15 and the A9 is their microarchitecture. You can think of it this way. A mouse has to go through a course. There are two courses:
{
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
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and
.
We call the maze A9 and we call the straight route A15.
Now, we will pretend "ghz" is a measure of intelligence (higher the better). A mouse that has an intuition level of 2.0ghz has to go through maze A9. Complicated right? It'd take awhile even if the mouse was kinda smart. But now a mouse that has an intuition level of 1.7 ghz has to go through maze A15. Easy. The maze route is a straight line - who wouldn't be able to find the end? So in the end, we ask ourselves, "Who gets the job done faster?" Obviously, the mouse in the A15 does even though it's not as smart. In this way, the A15 is just more efficient. So clock speeds (which are things like 1.0 ghz, 2.0 ghz, 1.5 ghz, 1.8 ghz) are only a part of the story. You need to factor in the microarchitecture (or in this example, the way the maze is organized).
Now, we go into cores. We can think of cores as splitting the work. Now, we will consider this scenario: we want to calculate how much time it takes for the maze to be completed four times (regardless of how many mice you are using - we just want to complete this maze 4x). A quadcore CPU that contains the 2.0ghz mouse can be represented by 4 mazes:
The dualcore CPU that contains the 1.7 ghz mouse can be represented by 2 mazes.
.
With the quadcore CPU, we will finish the task in only one go. Just put a mouse in each maze, and once they're done, we've completed the maze four times. With the dualcore CPU, we will finish the task in two go's. The mouse in each maze will have to go through each maze twice to finish the maze 4x. However, let's look at the "microarchitecture," or the maze route. Even though the dual core CPU (A15) needs to finish this task in two go's, it'll still do it a lot faster, because the route is far easier to go through. This makes the A15 more powerful. You can complete tasks quickly.
So when judging the "power" of SOCs, you need to keep three things in mind: cores, clock speed, and microarchitecture.
Clock speed = frequency such as 1.5ghz
Cores = dual core, quad core
Microarchitecture = A9, A15
Sometimes the microarchitecture won't be a vast enough improvement to justify a seriously lopsided clock speed. For example, a 4.5 ghz Intel Sandy Bridge CPU will be tons faster than a 3.2 ghz Intel Ivy Bridge CPU even though the Ivy Bridge CPU has a new microarchitecture. But, an Intel Sandy Bridge CPU clocked at 4.5 ghz will be slower than an Ivy Bridge CPU clocked at 4.4 ghz because the microarchitecture is slightly better.
Anyway, I hope this clears things up. I know the information here is probably not 100% accurate, but I'm hoping this is easier to understand than pure numbers and technical talk.

Where are the idiots that keep saying this? Honestly, I'm growing tired
Think about it, do you really think the quad core in your tablet is faster than say, a dual core core i5 in a laptop?
NO
Maybe this explains to you how a new processor architecture (A15), even at a dual core, can be faster than a quad core on the old architecture

Good explanation @404 !

What I'm worried about is whether the processor can handle that screen. I wonder if its possible to overclock it?

N 10 processor

Is this dual core really comparable to the quad core processors available? I just got my N10 and I also have an HTC one phone and the phone is blazing fast in my comparison to the nexus. Also I'm concerned with will this processor move forward along with the updates a nexus device gets in it's life time? I think 4 or so android updates is common with a nexus device? Thanks to those who may give an honest opinion rather than new biased to a certain product.
Sent from my HTCONE using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6747/htc-one-review/12
Most cpu tests favor the nexus 10 over the HTC.
Gpu tests appear evenly matched slightly favoring the htc. (easily overclocking the gpu with custom kernels should fix that.)
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app

freshlysqueezed said:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6747/htc-one-review/12
Most cpu tests favor the nexus 10 over the HTC.
Gpu tests appear evenly matched slightly favoring the htc. (easily overclocking the gpu with custom kernels should fix that.)
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are mostly browser tests unless there is something I don't understand. But I know benchmarks aren't everything. But quadrant HTC one stock 12000. Nexus 10 4300. Antutu nexus 10 14000. HTC one 24000. Am I missing something? Same with geekbench. HTC score Is quite a but more.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda premium

treIII said:
These are mostly browser tests unless there is something I don't understand. But I know benchmarks aren't everything. But quadrant HTC one stock 12000. Nexus 10 4300. Antutu nexus 10 14000. HTC one 24000. Am I missing something? Same with geekbench. HTC score Is quite a but more.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/compare/1837522/1834810
It depends on how the benchmarks are weighted for single core vs multi-core processes.I believe Antutu heavily tests multi-core processes.
Other benchmarks take a balanced approach such as geekbench. If you look at the link above, the Geekbench total scores of the nexus 10 and htc one are actually really close with a slight favor for the snapdragon 600.
If you look at the single core process subscores, the nexus 10 wins.
If you look at the multi-core process subscores, the snapdragon wins. (makes sense: 2 core processor vs 4 core processor).
Because in the real world, a majority of apps are still designed as single core processes, Geekbench will test and weight single and multicore processes fairly equally in calculating total scores.

treIII said:
Is this dual core really comparable to the quad core processors available? I just got my N10 and I also have an HTC one phone and the phone is blazing fast in my comparison to the nexus. Also I'm concerned with will this processor move forward along with the updates a nexus device gets in it's life time? I think 4 or so android updates is common with a nexus device? Thanks to those who may give an honest opinion rather than new biased to a certain product.
Sent from my HTCONE using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Exynos 5 Dual in your Nexus 10 is a Cortex A15, the most powerful type of ARM chip, which is in only a handful of mobile devices so far. The HTC One, by comparison, has a Krait, a souped-up version of the Cortex A9, the older ARM chip that is in most mobile devices. For raw power, they're probably comparable, even though one is dual-core and the other is quad-core, with the Exynos edging out the Snapdragon in those web browsing benchmarks that freshlysqueezed linked to, while the Adreno in the Snapdragon edges out the Mali in many of the GPU tests.
The big difference is probably battery life, as the Nexus 10 can suck 5-10 W max (though 3-4 W of that is probably the huge display), while the HTC One pulls 4 W max. That's why everybody is going with Snapdragon for the current lineup of phones, the combination of high speed and minimal power can't be beat. Even Samsung, who wanted to put its Exynos 5 Octa, with a quad-core Cortex A15, in the Galaxy S4, has admitted to putting Snapdragon in most of the S4s, though that might be related to fabrication problems they're having with the Octa.
One reason the HTC One might seem "blazing fast" when compared to the Nexus 10 is that the Nexus 10 screen has twice as many pixels as the HTC One's display, though I doubt you'd notice any lag. I don't think the Nexus 10 will have any problems getting updates, as it's the first Android device with Cortex A15 and all high-end Android devices will be getting Cortex A15 over the next couple years. So the Nexus 10 is already ahead of the game.
The one big miss with the Exynos 5 Dual in the Nexus 10 is that it doesn't have a low-power core for light usage, what ARM calls big.LITTLE. That's what the Exynos 5 Octa uses, a quad-core Cortex A15 is the big component and a quad-core Cortex A7 is the little. That way, you can switch back and forth depending on how heavily you are using the device, saving power when you're not using it much. ARM is pushing this in a big way and even though not many chips have it yet, if it becomes common, the Exynos 5 Dual will be behind. Of course, Android will still always support non-big.LITTLE chips, you just won't get the benefits of big.LITTLE. A little chip would have been particularly useful given the high power draw of the big chips in the Nexus 10.

treIII said:
Is this dual core really comparable to the quad core processors available? I just got my N10 and I also have an HTC one phone and the phone is blazing fast in my comparison to the nexus. Also I'm concerned with will this processor move forward along with the updates a nexus device gets in it's life time? I think 4 or so android updates is common with a nexus device? Thanks to those who may give an honest opinion rather than new biased to a certain product.
Sent from my HTCONE using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Four or so updates is a lot for Android; I don't think you'll really find a phone other than a certain HTC phone (hint, it started with Windows Mobile) that'll get more than that. Keep in mind that even the lowly single-core Nexus S got its update to Jelly Bean-- I also have the Nexus 10 and HTC One, and both have the horsepower to stay in the game for quite some time. As a Galaxy Nexus user as well, I can also say that even relatively underpowered devices can stay kicking for some time.

Rirere said:
Four or so updates is a lot for Android; I don't think you'll really find a phone other than a certain HTC phone (hint, it started with Windows Mobile) that'll get more than that. Keep in mind that even the lowly single-core Nexus S got its update to Jelly Bean-- I also have the Nexus 10 and HTC One, and both have the horsepower to stay in the game for quite some time. As a Galaxy Nexus user as well, I can also say that even relatively underpowered devices can stay kicking for some time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a better tablet or there than the N7? Right now. The screen resolution should be superior to all other tablets but next to an iPad with the same game playing this isn't as good. My girlfriend proved that. She likes i anything. I'm an android guy. Is the gpu not so good in this device? I like it don't get me wrong. But I just bought it and if there's ifs something better I would rather have the latest and greatest. I really do not understand why this isn't powered by a quad-core. I feel like my son's nexus 7 had better graphics. At least when I look at his screen it just looks better to my eye.
Sent from my HTCONE using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2

treIII said:
Is there a better tablet or there than the N7? Right now. The screen resolution should be superior to all other tablets but next to an iPad with the same game playing this isn't as good. My girlfriend proved that. She likes i anything. I'm an android guy. Is the gpu not so good in this device? I like it don't get me wrong. But I just bought it and if there's ifs something better I would rather have the latest and greatest. I really do not understand why this isn't powered by a quad-core. I feel like my son's nexus 7 had better graphics. At least when I look at his screen it just looks better to my eye.
Sent from my HTCONE using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
This dual core/quad core thing is a red herring, sorry. The Nexus 10 went with a dual core A15 because the performance boost provided by an A15 was such that Samsung could afford to use a dual core chipset (meaning reduced power consumption, both due to reduced core count and improved architecture) while still blowing out all comparable chipsets at time of launch. The Tegra 4s (if they're not hobbled by memory bandwith issues like the Tegra 3s) will be a half/full generation ahead of the Exynus 5250 when they launch, so you could sit and wait for those (they also have pretty good GPUs).
The Nexus 10 has a powerful GPU, but some of it gets sapped by driving the enormous screen resolution. As far as the screen goes, it's an amazing 10" IPS panel without too much else to say. The Nexus 7 has a WVGA 1280x800 IPS panel with significantly lower PPI, and you generally hold a 7" tablet a bit closer, which can compound the density drop. However, on a 7" device, it's hardly bad.
The Nexus 10 is going to beat the crap out of the Nexus 7, but if you want to switch, I'd wait for the next Nexus 7 (which is rumored to have an upgraded screen and proc in a similar price envelope as the original), or for the first Tegra 4s. There's not really much else on the market that'll beat a Nexus 10 right now in tablet-land.

joakim_one said:
The Exynos 5 Dual in your Nexus 10 is a Cortex A15, the most powerful type of ARM chip, which is in only a handful of mobile devices so far. The HTC One, by comparison, has a Krait, a souped-up version of the Cortex A9, the older ARM chip that is in most mobile devices. For raw power, they're probably comparable, even though one is dual-core and the other is quad-core, with the Exynos edging out the Snapdragon in those web browsing benchmarks that freshlysqueezed linked to, while the Adreno in the Snapdragon edges out the Mali in many of the GPU tests.
The big difference is probably battery life, as the Nexus 10 can suck 5-10 W max (though 3-4 W of that is probably the huge display), while the HTC One pulls 4 W max. That's why everybody is going with Snapdragon for the current lineup of phones, the combination of high speed and minimal power can't be beat. Even Samsung, who wanted to put its Exynos 5 Octa, with a quad-core Cortex A15, in the Galaxy S4, has admitted to putting Snapdragon in most of the S4s, though that might be related to fabrication problems they're having with the Octa.
One reason the HTC One might seem "blazing fast" when compared to the Nexus 10 is that the Nexus 10 screen has twice as many pixels as the HTC One's display, though I doubt you'd notice any lag. I don't think the Nexus 10 will have any problems getting updates, as it's the first Android device with Cortex A15 and all high-end Android devices will be getting Cortex A15 over the next couple years. So the Nexus 10 is already ahead of the game.
The one big miss with the Exynos 5 Dual in the Nexus 10 is that it doesn't have a low-power core for light usage, what ARM calls big.LITTLE. That's what the Exynos 5 Octa uses, a quad-core Cortex A15 is the big component and a quad-core Cortex A7 is the little. That way, you can switch back and forth depending on how heavily you are using the device, saving power when you're not using it much. ARM is pushing this in a big way and even though not many chips have it yet, if it becomes common, the Exynos 5 Dual will be behind. Of course, Android will still always support non-big.LITTLE chips, you just won't get the benefits of big.LITTLE. A little chip would have been particularly useful given the high power draw of the big chips in the Nexus 10.
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Just a quick reply to point some things out. The Snapdragon 600 in the One is a quad-core A15 with Krait 300 architecture. The 600 is about as powerful as the 5250 with better multi-threading. Also most chipsets currently use A15. It is the current standard, not something that will "happen over time". The CPU has nothing to do with the screen res, the image processing is done through the GPU. And finally, I expect the 5250 to be eclipsed relatively soon, as chipsets supporting higher clock frequencies(like the 800, or even the rumored Tegra5/6 with a possible 3.0Ghz clock) start to enter manufacturing. Sorry for the brevity, I'll edit this a bit later when I get more time.

Koopa777 said:
Just a quick reply to point some things out. The Snapdragon 600 in the One is a quad-core A15 with Krait 300 architecture. The 600 is about as powerful as the 5250 with better multi-threading. Also most chipsets currently use A15. It is the current standard, not something that will "happen over time". The CPU has nothing to do with the screen res, the image processing is done through the GPU. And finally, I expect the 5250 to be eclipsed relatively soon, as chipsets supporting higher clock frequencies(like the 800, or even the rumored Tegra5/6 with a possible 3.0Ghz clock) start to enter manufacturing. Sorry for the brevity, I'll edit this a bit later when I get more time.
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Tegra 5/6 is purely theoretical at this point. It's also best for clarity to note that most new chipsets are switching to A15 (or customized variants thereof). Most chipsets in the market right now are A9 or lower, and there are still phones being released running high-end A9 kit. The CPU also does have some role to play in screen drawing, especially for handling elements that are not using GPU rendering for one reason or another. This interaction isn't as significant as some would believe, but it cannot be discounted entirely either.
The Snapdragon 600 is probably on par with the Exynos 5250, that much is definitely true. They're pretty neck and neck and will outclass one another on different aspects of CPU performance, but both are quite good.

Rirere said:
Four or so updates is a lot for Android; I don't think you'll really find a phone other than a certain HTC phone (hint, it started with Windows Mobile) that'll get more than that. Keep in mind that even the lowly single-core Nexus S got its update to Jelly Bean-- I also have the Nexus 10 and HTC One, and both have the horsepower to stay in the game for quite some time. As a Galaxy Nexus user as well, I can also say that even relatively underpowered devices can stay kicking for some time.
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Plus the rumor is that Android 5.0 is being heavily optimized so it can run even on older phones, even with 512 MBs of RAM. If true, they may keep current devices updated for a while, as it may take a while for Android to bloat up again. :highfive:

joakim_one said:
Plus the rumor is that Android 5.0 is being heavily optimized so it can run even on older phones, even with 512 MBs of RAM. If true, they may keep current devices updated for a while, as it may take a while for Android to bloat up again. :highfive:
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lol @ the "up again." Hopefully they keep moving in this direction, towards leaner, sleeker software. And one of the nice kicks about modern, flat, industrial design is that it doesn't hit system resources quite as hard.

Rirere said:
Tegra 5/6 is purely theoretical at this point. It's also best for clarity to note that most new chipsets are switching to A15 (or customized variants thereof). Most chipsets in the market right now are A9 or lower, and there are still phones being released running high-end A9 kit. The CPU also does have some role to play in screen drawing, especially for handling elements that are not using GPU rendering for one reason or another. This interaction isn't as significant as some would believe, but it cannot be discounted entirely either.
The Snapdragon 600 is probably on par with the Exynos 5250, that much is definitely true. They're pretty neck and neck and will outclass one another on different aspects of CPU performance, but both are quite good.
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As Rirere says, Koopa777's post is pretty much all wrong. Krait is not Cortex A15, it is a unique design from Qualcomm that is somewhere between Cortex A9 and A15, which are off-the-shelf designs from ARM. Most current chipsets are Cortex A9, not A15. The Exynos 5250 Dual will of course be eclipsed with time, for example, the Tegra 4 will be coming out later this year with a quad-core Cortex A15, but right now the 5250 is basically the only Cortex A15 chip, other than the aforementioned Octa, which just came out.
As for Tegra 5/6, those won't come out till next year, I don't think anyone is planning on waiting till then.

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Snapdragon 800
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freshlysqueezed said:
Snapdragon 800
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Yeah. I agree. Even the older quad cores once a device has root.
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More snapdragon 800 benchmarks
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Got to say, I'm looking forward to the next generation. I upgraded from a Galaxy Nexus (TI OMAP 4430) to the Snapdragon 600, and it was like night and day (the Nexus was my first smartphone, although I'd played around with many Android devices before). Amazing what processor tech is like these days.

freshlysqueezed said:
More snapdragon 800 benchmarks
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Eh, if it's using twice as much power to get these results, who cares? Let's see how the battery life is.
I picked up a HTC One X+ with the fastest Tegra 3 and it gets very hot when playing 1080p video, burning battery like crazy. Even the Exynos 5 Dual in my Nexus 10 runs pretty hot when playing 1080p video. All these processors are powerful enough these days, whether they'll kill your battery or not is the real test.

joakim_one said:
Eh, if it's using twice as much power to get these results, who cares? Let's see how the battery life is.
I picked up a HTC One X+ with the fastest Tegra 3 and it gets very hot when playing 1080p video, burning battery like crazy. Even the Exynos 5 Dual in my Nexus 10 runs pretty hot when playing 1080p video. All these processors are powerful enough these days, whether they'll kill your battery or not is the real test.
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Hot can be a sign of bad heat flow though, more than power consumption. A15s are better than A9s in some efficiency regards, but pumping them up to a higher clock speed will eat through that saving.

joakim_one said:
Eh, if it's using twice as much power to get these results, who cares? Let's see how the battery life is.
I picked up a HTC One X+ with the fastest Tegra 3 and it gets very hot when playing 1080p video, burning battery like crazy. Even the Exynos 5 Dual in my Nexus 10 runs pretty hot when playing 1080p video. All these processors are powerful enough these days, whether they'll kill your battery or not is the real test.
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That's why I underclock/undervolt when I play my mkv movies.
Thanks to the awesome DEVS here at xda for the great flexibility in our kernels. Great battery life when you need it and speed at other times.
Agreed, thermal regulation and throttling is an issue, but Qualcomm seems to be doing pretty well with these issues as well as battery life in my HTC evo 4g lte and my sisters galaxy s4.
We will have to see for the new 800 and tegra 4.
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