Hello!
I´m interrested in Android as well as in the tm G1.
Now the G1 is announced here in Germany for the second of february.
My problem at the moment is, that I have read and heard, that google is collecting data (everything)! So if you read the "terms and conditions", what do you think about that or don´t you care? I mean they have the rights over everything you load/send/post/get....and more!
How do you handle that fact personally for you?
Greetings!
Carter
That's just the nature of the emphasis on cloud computing. Personally my stance is simply to not conduct any business on my G1 that I would mind Google knowing/datamining. Regardless of what companies claim in their privacy policies, the very best way to 100% guarantee your data will be misused is simply to not willingly give it out.
Edit: also keep in mind that the (potentially) datamining portions of Android generally revolve around those apps and services which are closed-source apps provided by Google that are not a part of the Android Open Source Project. These include for example the Market, GMail, GTalk, and so forth.
ok, I get your point, but what is the G1 without Gmail/Calendar etc.
And thats all google.
Because of the poor response on my question I think that the majority doesn´t care about google´s data collecting hype.
In my eyes their acting is scary....imagine the details they know about you and many many other people....
just my opinion...
Greetz!
They don't collect any personal information. Not only that but they don't have people looking at these records. A computer does all the work, and is only used to find keywords.
Look at this site's search (the one on xda not google) it works by taking every word and putting it in a database and when you search the word it shows the corresponding posts. so post1 has wordA and post2 has wordA and wordB, and when you search for wordB you only get post2. The same concept is in place for google... except it goes one step further. The spider takes out words that are not needed. Well they have been using this for your GMail for sometime as well. It is why they have excellent spam control and it is why google is so awesome. They use the same process to check emails when you click links. Basically they are just trying to find out who uses what sites for what reasons. If they figure out all this they can better help you and the company you were visiting.
Chances are if you are on a site that is doing something illegal Google already knows it exisists.
someone can always watch if they want, on a g1 or PC, or anything connected. Just don't do anything dumb.
i think its obscene and absurd how gung hoe they are with it. If you want access to the playstore gawdam they better have every member of your family and every person you've ever met profiled as well as around the clock location tracking with a serial # and every keystroke on your device. And dont you dare make any attempts to disable any of their spyware or you can kiss YouTube apps and the play store goodbye. Its pathetic what they've done to Android and its users. And the reason it pisses me of the most is because I don't even really use free apps. They're all either paid for or open.
so after posting an excerpt of my letter to Dan Morrill, the author of the absolutely idiotic statement regarding what they're doing, i received several PMs asking me to post the whole thing. It's so long it wont fit in a single post, so read it all. if you dont want to read a wall of text, stop here and go to a new thread.
Mr. Morrill,
First, I would like to bid you a good day, as I'm sure this letter is going to effect it. Yes, that is a bold statement to make at the onset, but writings such as these have a way of eating their way into your psyche and leaving a lasting impression that could very well sour your appetite at lunch time.
Perhaps I should introduce myself. My name is XXXXXXXXXXXXX, and I am an amateur developer on the Android platform. I am also a user of many of the custom Android builds that have come out since the release of the source development kit, including the build made by Steve "Cyanogen" Kondik. Ah, yes, now you see what this letter is going to be about.
So lets start with the basics. Google is a multi-billion dollar corporation that released a supposedly open-source platform onto the mobile device market. Now, I say mobile device as opposed to mobile phone, simply because there are products being released, such as the Zii EGG, which do not support telecommuniations, yet are still running on the Android platform. Now, in any reasonable programmers mind, the reason for making a platform open source, regardless of what the Public Relations people spin it as, is to alleviate some of the burden on the actual in-house development teams. The source code created by thousands of bright minds is doubtless going to yield a much stonger end result than that of a small development squad. Its simple mathematics. Well, that point alongside the fact that the original linux developers made no secret of their intentions by open-sourcing their operating system, which paved the way for Android many many years later.
In addition to that, all of the applications included in the "stock", or unmodified and officially released Android, builds are free. Any user with internet access can use any of these functions through the internet, with the blessings of your employer, free of charge. Yet, somehow, this has caused a sort of hiccup between your supposed idea of free development and that of the general public. Now, before you warp your mind into "this guy doesnt know what he's talking about" mode, think about the principles that your company was founded upon. You wanted to beat out the corporate giants and look out for the little guy. Oh yes, I've done my homework on Google over the years. The benevolent company trying to provide free services for the masses that the "evil-empire" corporations would deny free access to. Ironically enough, this letter is being written to you on Google Docs, another of your free services. Quite troublesome, it would seem.
And now, lest I digress further, I'll shift to the meat of the topic. In your statement regarding the cease and desist letter to Mr. Kondik, you claim that the sales of your free software to be used on mobile platforms being provided to the end user by custom developers for free would hurt the bottom line. Perhaps you should re-examine your own words. Free software being given to the masses by developers whom you claim to encourage is huring your profit share because you cannot sell the use of it to large corporations. Pardon me if I fail to understand the rationale behind such a contradictory and obviously ridiculous statement. But just so that you can understand my position on the matter, lets look at a related position. Google produces an internet browser, Chrome. Mozilla, a competing franchise, produces Firefox, their own browser. Developers for firefox have created applications which borrow on Google's proprietary code to access the functionality of the various features and programs. Are these developers charged for being able to include such features? No. Are these developers caused to halt their activities through threats of legal action for providing end users access to the capabilities that Google readily offers for free? No. So where is the disparity between allowing a competitor to do such things and tying the hands of developers of YOUR open source platform from doing the same?
Before I go further, let me give you a little background on myself to illuminate things. I used to work for XXXXXXXXXXXXXX. I worked in one of their call centers with well over a thousand people, almost a quarter of whom purchased the G1. More than 50% of those users had custom builds running on their phones. How would I know this? I personally installed it on over 300 and gave instructions to many more who wanted to do it themselves. This was one call center. But your apparent attitude on the situation makes it apparent that providing these people with custom software that includes the Google-based programs that were ORIGINALLY ON THE DEVICE AT PURCHASE, is illegal. I'm sorry sir, but that notion is preposterous. All of the Android-based mobile platforms on the market today include the software that caused you to send Mr. Kondik a cease and desist letter. This means that every single end user who purchased one of the devices paid that bottom line you spoke of. Any other rationale is impossible. Non-supporting devices will not run Android, and as such, the only way to use the device is to have purchased one. This brings us to the logical conclusion that those applications, such as GMail and Google Talk are PAID FOR. The situation is equitable to this situation: Joe purchases a computer from a major distributor, say Dell. Dell gives Joe a complimentary piece of free software (available on the Dell website) which updates his drivers on the Dell website, included with his purchase. Joe decides he doesnt particularly like the operating system on the computer, and installs an operating system more to his liking, that also happens to include the Dell software. But lo-and-behold, that free software shouldnt be free to Joe, even though he paid Dell's bottom line through his original computer purchase.
Your flaw is that you are obviously trying to "spin" the situation. Unfortunately, its a thin disguise and everyone can see through it, clear as crystal. These people that I speak of? Developers. The developers whom you claim to encourage. This brings me to my next point. Developers are essentially software hackers. They take the code from a program, rip it apart, improve on it, and then put it back out on the market for other developers to toy with. Perhaps, in your travels as a computer programmer, you have come across a copy of the much fabled "hacker's manifesto". Free access to data. That is what it was about at its core philosophy. You claimed to provide developers with that free access through Android, and then punish the people whom you claim to support.
Have you ever seen "The Devil's Advocate", Mr. Morrill? Al Pacino has an excellent line in which he is describing the way God imbued man with instinct, saying "Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow." Is this not what you've done here? You've given us, the developers, what you claim to be an open-source platform, written for mobile platforms that contain previously installed versions of the software, and also containing applications that each and every possible user would have purchased through buying the device on which they run. Then you tell us that it is illegal for us to modify any portion of that software which you see fit at any given point in time. Perhaps you should have just kept it closed-source, so that anything innovative wouldnt stir controvversy, as it would have truly been illegal. You give us a gift and then set the rules in opposition as it suits you.
Now, if I havent struck a nerve yet, perhaps I will in my own belief on the subject. You FEAR us. The android development team put out an initial platform. The developers, using the source code given to us, have turned out platforms on several different versions that utilize more functionality with greater performance, more flexibility and a wider range of features than ANYTHING that the official releases have even come close to. Mr. Kondik's releases are a prime example of this. He has created a version of the platform which utilizes every aspect of the platform infinitely better than the official releases. He has also included functionality from FUTURE releases, constantly and consistently improving on such, in a timeframe that should have your development team in absolute hysterics. That, sir, is what I believe this is about. Fear and shame. Never did you imagine that the Android development community would be able to surpass the Godly heights of the original development team, but we have and continually do so. It's his popularity that earned him the letter. He posed the biggest threat to your team by sharing a creative vision with anyone willing to install it that your team couldn't possibly compete with. But what about all of the other major developers? As of right now, I can count over a hundred different custom builds that include much of the same functionality and applications that Mr. Kondik's software includes. Are you going to attempt to stop them too?
(continued in post #2)
I assume you have been on the internet before. I assume you know that it spans the globe and has absolutely no limits or boundaries. It is freedom at its peak. Anyone, anywhere can express anything they want. The beautiful thing is that it enables people to communicate, and thereby collaborate in real-time. An internet community with thirty thousand people doesnt have to find a meeting room with enough chairs. This is the problem you're facing. You have attempted to cut the head off of a snake that you created. Unfortunately, on the internet, when you cut off the head of a snake, the body doesnt die. A thousand more heads spawn in its place, angrier, defiant and more intent on their purpose. Perhaps that should be a wake up call.
Mr. Morrill, I hope that in reading this letter, you have come to realize the gravity of your position. You have not only hurt yourselves, but angered an entire community, consisting of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people. These are the people who write the applications that are sold on the Android Market. These are the people who have the time to spare to ensure that you still have a job by creating works of digital art, using the code that you claim to be "open source". Are you so obtuse as to believe that these people are going to slip silently into the night when their creativity is stifled by the whims of a multibillion dollar corporation? I think not, sir.
You simply cannot give freedom to the masses and then attempt to bind their hands, as you are attempting to do in this case. This has ended in cataclysmic failure for every culture and every authority that has attempted to do so in history. We live in a global society of ingenuity. People WILL find a way. The creative power of the developers of the android community will inevitably break you. History has shown ample evidence that a creative mind cannot be beaten down. No army of lawyers, no amount of cease and desist letters will stop the tide of creativity.
It's like a bear. The choice you had was to embrace this creativity and nurture it or to poke at it with a stick. Mr. Morrill, are you aware of the consequences of poking a bear with a stick? Some thought on that will bring you to an obvious, and quite unpleasant, conclusion.
Had you simply left well enough alone, the damage might have been minimal, but at this point you could be looking at a 2009 reenactment of the Boston Tea Party, with the Android platform playing the part of the British tea. The damage to your "bottom line" was so infinitesimally small as to equate to a mouse burping on a rush hour subway car in New York City. As stated previously, it is simply my belief that your development team was offended by the fact that amateur developers would put them to shame. Does Android come with a complimentary set of swim trunks? Perhaps you might invest. I hear Boston Harbor gets cold in the winter.
In closing, perhaps you should let the immortal words of Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto echo through your mind as you contemplate the statements made in this letter:
"I fear that all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve".
Mr. Morrill, the giant is awake now, and his resolve is beyond your wildest dreams. I truly hope you are prepared to reap the consequences of what you have put in motion.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
amazing. your right they do fear us and they have woken a sleeping giant. what i dont get is the fact that these roms are making this phone better. as you said you gave over 300 people instructions how to do this at the call center. if anything these devs are helping google make sales, and google doesnt even have to make a better product. they make they same thing tht has been out since 0ct.22.2008 and the devs make it better. you sir are a god among men.
Wow, great letter, really looking forward to hearing the response to this - If you'd post it that is ;-)
You misspelt "purchased" in the eighth paragraph btw
yeah, this was the pre-spell-checked rough draft. the copy that i sent him was clean as a whistle.
Interesting letter. Not to mock you or anything, but it reminds me a lot of Keith Olbermann.
I am a RSA for TMO, and one of the major selling points was that Android was (is?) Open Source. That was a big deal to many customers.
I don't think the folks over a Google realize how tech savvy even the dumbest tech user is.
Had probably a 60 year old man come in the other day and he had put Hero on his G1 by himself.
(No offense to any oldsters.)
The world is changing, and Google just jumped in front of that subway train you mentioned.
this was truly a great letter. i would love to see the response (if you even get one) to this. i feel inspired to go do something now...
Android users, this is your call to arms.
Before you go and write long winded threatening letters to someone, maybe you should look into what you are writing about first. The person you are writing the letter to is an employee of a company that tells him what to do. I doubt after all of the help he has given developers and "hackers" in the Android irc channel, that he was just planning on striking everything down. My guess, and that of many others who know of him (havent chatted a lot, but he is social with us) would be that he was told to write that post. I dont want cyanogen roms to go away either, but I think you are going at it the wrong way. Hate the company, not the developers.
And after re-reading the post, you mention installing this on devices that already have it. The exact same arguement I used but you must also realize that an HTC hero does not get these Google Apps. It is an HTC branded phone and instead gets HTC branded apps. The "With Google" phones are the only ones that come with these apps pre-installed. Even then, apparently (I just found this out today) that your license to these apps does not allow you to copy them OFF of the device they came on. So that cut down another idea we had: copy the apps from the rom to SD, flash image, copy apps back.
Once again, I do not disagree with you or your anger, I just disagree with who you are directing it at.
irrelevant. "i was just doing what i was told" is never an excuse. it doesnt work in the justice system, and it doesnt work here. i could elaborate more, but i really dont want to invoke Godwin's Law this early in the conversation. he opened his mouth. he made himself the target. everyone is a nice and helpful person until they show their true colors.
perhaps its just me, but i'm one of those people that actually hold to my ideals. if i'm fighting for something and my boss tells me to do otherwise, i'm going to tell him to pack sand. if I get fired, i can always find a new job, but I can do so with my integrity intact. he had a choice. everyone always has a choice.
also, to your second post, the HTC branded phones arent the subject of controversy. the apps are "free". i quote free because it isnt true in this case. how is distributing the official Gmail app for free any different than accessing the same capabilities through another means? if I were to delete the official GMail app off of my phone entirely and instead access my gmail account through a browser, wouldnt that have the same effect on Google's "bottom line"? I'm still using the same service and not paying for it. Similarly, with the hero, if you have access to GMail through any email application or browser, are you not violating the same concept? You're still using the core of google's intellectual property for free. Their only real solution is to make the Google apps paid applications that everyone has access to if they want to shell out the cash, or simply drop the whole thing.
Are they going to stop people from creating custom GMail apps too? Cause if so, they've got a big fish to fry, cause they'd have to go after everyone who wrote a gmail plugin for firefox as well. any way you look at it, they're not going to stop the development community from going on, its simply too big.
If Dell gives you a "free" copy of vista on your laptop, and then you buy a compaq with linux installed on it. Does that mean you have the right to install your "free" vista on the compaq also? It was free! How about you write a new windows shell and you bundle your free windows vista with it. And you also throw in your free copy of Office that came with it.
I understand their point and I realize these examples are not EXACT enough to matter, but the point does. They give you the apps for A SPECIFIC device and they give them to you with rules. Rules that we do not like.
I feel that they instead of C&D'ing him, should have had a little sit down with him. Said "hey, we realize you are doing a lot of good for us by promoting our product and giving those who want more what they ask for when we cannot, but we have some rules for you. A, you must make every attempt you can to make sure the roms you distribute go on authorized "With Google" devices. B, not release stuff you do not have permission to release." This would allow google to control what he releases enough to fit within the rules (keeps carriers from saying "hey, he can release your apps without paying, why cant we?"). They would also benefit from the many thousands of users who flock to these custom roms but realize they are unusable in their bare forms.
And so you do not have to, I will be the first to pull the term nazi out of my hat in this one
I agree completely. As i said in the letter, they could have nurtured creativity (i.e. having a sit down with him and saying "hey look, we know that this is going to non-google devices and we cant have that, so make an attempt to not let it happen") or poke it with a stick. They chose the stick, and now they get to reap the backlash.
I also understand your initial examples, and while they do hold true for the circumstance, windows isnt lauded as being an open-source platform. In addition, i havent heard of microsoft going after people who create custom shells that utilize windows information, so long as they put a disclaimer on it saying that you're only allowed to use them if you're running an authorized copy of the OS. The same should have been done here, as you suggested.
Also, microsoft has specific anti-piracy safeguards in place to keep you from installing that software on your compaq that didnt come with it. Can you get around it? sure. Piracy happens, but its also illegal. But google has no such safeguards on the apps. Is it because they lacked the foresight to see this coming? Absolutely. If they didnt want the apps installed on non-branded/non-approved devices, then perhaps they should have made it impossible to do so. Sure, people would eventually find a way around it, but then they'd have a legitimate piracy gripe. As it is now, they dont. You dont hand a kid a cookie, let him eat half and then snatch it away because he shared the chocolate chips. You keep him away from the cookies from the get-go.
It really is a sad state of affiars. If something is going to be free, such as GMail, then Google shouldnt care how the users access it. How big of a chunk of their profits do you think its really going to hurt if people with the hero get a free copy of the gmail app? I bet their legal team made for handling this "issue" than it would cost them in ten years. If the apps in question were paid apps, then I would completely understand. People shouldnt get something free that they should have to pay for, which is one of the reasons that XDA has such a strict "warez" policy. But thats not the case.
The simplest solution would have been to realize that "oops, we did tell them it was open source, maybe we should clarify a bit and see if we can come to a reasonable understanding". But alas...
Also, to your point that the apps came with a specific device, what about those that purchased a device with those apps? We have a right to be using them as we see fit. When I bought my phone, I never signed anything that said that I couldnt theme the application if I wanted to. Google never made me sign a contract. And they couldnt, it would be ridiculous. What about people that purchased them on ebay or craigslist without a contract? They still bought the device and are the owner, and they certainly didnt have to agree not to modify any content. Is google going to go after every developer and every themer now too? Are they going to go after every end user who modified their content? It's just as illegal as making a rom that allows it to happen in the eyes of the law. Apple is attempting to do the same sort of crap with people jailbreaking the iphone. They're saying that even though you bought it, apple technically still owns it, so anything you do to it is illegal. Theres a huge legal debate going on over it right now and apple looks like theyre probably going to lose.
The safeguard they have in place is lack of root access. If you have root access yo have exploited a bug and are acting out of the designed use of the phone. You would not be able to backup or otherwise access these app files. Also, you would not be able to flash the new rom without root, which you gained by exploiting a bug.
Absolutely. But at the same time, the whole "exploiting a bug" argument is similarly null. If the bug never existed, two things would be true:
1. There would be no custom roms for end users, which Mr. Morrill says he supports and looks forward to seeing more of. This would be true since the idea of creating custom software would be idiotic as nobody would be able to install it. The only people utilizing the open-source framework would be major development houses, such as what creative is doing with the plazma stem-cell android that they're putting on the EGG. Application development has nothing to do with open source. The iPhone is not open source, but you can still develop apps for it.
2. The claim that they have about the free distribution of their intellectual property would hold merit, as it would be legitimate software piracy, instead of an unintended side effect of faulty design.
The first point is what makes this a farce. We, as developers, found a way to get custom software onto our devices, something which we were never intended to do. One of two things should have happened at that point: they should have let us continue to do it, which they did (closing the loophole could have been done, they could have found a way to prevent downgrading, seeing as there are no other OS options for the device) or they could have stopped it there and said that exploiting the bug is illegal. Its been a year since the device came out. This has been going on for a YEAR. You mean to tell me that this is an issue NOW and wasnt a year ago when it first started? Its only an issue because they're not the only game in town anymore. Ridiculous. Someone got their feathers ruffled and wanted to take out the little guy.
Ok, I am not going to keep replying to your endless wandering rebuttals. I feel you are wrong in who you are aiming your hate mail at and that is the end of the story.
Thats fine, and I do apologize for being excessively adamant about it. But I still feel I'm right. You only paint a target on yourself if you're prepared for people to shoot at you. Thats all I can say about it.
Darkrift said:
If Dell gives you a "free" copy of vista on your laptop, and then you buy a compaq with linux installed on it. Does that mean you have the right to install your "free" vista on the compaq also? It was free! How about you write a new windows shell and you bundle your free windows vista with it. And you also throw in your free copy of Office that came with it.
I understand their point and I realize these examples are not EXACT enough to matter, but the point does. They give you the apps for A SPECIFIC device and they give them to you with rules. Rules that we do not like.
I feel that they instead of C&D'ing him, should have had a little sit down with him. Said "hey, we realize you are doing a lot of good for us by promoting our product and giving those who want more what they ask for when we cannot, but we have some rules for you. A, you must make every attempt you can to make sure the roms you distribute go on authorized "With Google" devices. B, not release stuff you do not have permission to release." This would allow google to control what he releases enough to fit within the rules (keeps carriers from saying "hey, he can release your apps without paying, why cant we?"). They would also benefit from the many thousands of users who flock to these custom roms but realize they are unusable in their bare forms.
And so you do not have to, I will be the first to pull the term nazi out of my hat in this one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About your dell giving you a "free" copy of vista. As long as that CD key is only used on one computer, you can use that CD key on ANY computer. Read their TOS. Your are wrong about a lot, but right about some. Changing the integrity of the windows shell is illegal, because that is microsoft property and NOT open source, but anytime you purchase an OS, or computer, you OWN that cd key of the software, all apps that come included as well. Could you try another example?
nice letter.
not so sure about the whole HTC (not "with google") phone thing- my magic is a HTC magic (32A) and it came will every single google app preinstalled on it.... not sure about hero though...
MontAlbert said:
nice letter.
not so sure about the whole HTC (not "with google") phone thing- my magic is a HTC magic (32A) and it came will every single google app preinstalled on it.... not sure about hero though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hero did too.
Regards,
Dave
Under the light of the recent developments - Amazon has banned Kodi from distribution on all of their plattforms, proclaiming it was "soliciting illegal use" without giving any insight into their though process, or even one argument - developer Koying is showing flag as well and is currently trying to withdraw his build of Kodi from the Amazon app store.
SPMC is the second most commonly used Media Center on Android, after Kodi - containing tweaks that make it more suitable to be used on some Android devices.
Read on from here:
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=201783&pid=2031210#pid2031210
@AFTVnews.com: I'm hoping you could pick up on this one as well.
edit: Background information:
http://www.aftvnews.com/amazon-apps...piracy-while-google-play-store-approves-kodi/
and
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/17/bezos_bozos_swing_ban_hammer_at_media_player/
This is off topic I believe, not because the mods are out to get you. Kodi and SPMC have never been compatible with the FireTV via the Amazon App Store. This belongs is a Kodi, SPMC or Amazon Fire Phone forum. Just saying if you are looking for a reason why your posts are getting deleted.
Using Amazon App Store Shortcuts to start Kodi and SPMC - which are the most popular sideloaded apps on the Fire TV, is the most common way of accessing your Media Centers on the Fire TV.
Also - the reason Amazon gave for pulling Kodi out of distribution has ramifications that by far exceed affecting only users who were dependent on the official distribution channel (Amazon Appstore). Amazon basically stated, that the most popular open source video player on Android devices should be considered illegal, without giving out any of the reasoning.
Also, every second thread in here is about Kodi and or SPMC - so there is a topical nature to this. Especially, as Amazons move very likely was triggered as a result of conflicting interests in the Fire TV segment of their product lines. Remember that Amazon has no problem still openly selling Kodi Boxes through their goods based marketplace.
In addition - the notion of developers trying to leave the Amazon ship as fast as possible, is a sentiment worth noting as well.
Ok fair enough. Your thread, I'll see my way out. You are looking at the bigger picture of what this could impact and the mods will allow it or not. Obviously a big deal for you if you specifically called it out to Koying like that. You going to ask the Plex devs next?
But again, this is a thread about removal of Kodi/SPMC from the app store. This is different than threads on Kodi usage via sideloading. The app store removal has no impact on FireTV users besides the shortcut not being available. And there are plenty of documented workarounds for this.
Plex plays ball with content holders requests to a point, where someone interested in publishing an addon with them, can even specify which plattform (that Plex supports) he doesnt wants his addon to work with - for example, because he wants people not to be able to access the content on a TV, or wants to drive them to his own 10 foot interface.
Plex also has vouched to vet all addons they provide, prior to releasing them. The content holders pay for that privilege.
Their answer to such a request would already be predetermined.
Still, this whole episode is an attempt to clamp down on user interests by Amazon and frame Kodi to be "something illegal" without offering their thought process, or reasoning.
This should be able to be discussed in this forum. I'd ask the moderators once more to reconsider censoring this discussion, because it has already caused considerable waves.
You can read Cory Doctorows position on the topic from 2010 here:
http://boingboing.net/2010/04/02/why-i-wont-buy-an-ipad-and-think-yo.html
This is what we are currently trying to fight against. While XDA moderators are closing down the topics.
Apple still provided its users with player software they could use to play their files on during the last transition, Amazon is now actively moving against the most commonly used video player software out there during this transition. If we dont care to actively speak out on behalf of Kodi, when a major 500 company is trying to sideline and extinct open source media center use on their platforms - it will shape this industry and our future concept of what we should be able to do with our devices.
Content vetting, by corporations - is nothing I would welcome as the new normal.
Thank you to everyone who brought this to my attention. http://www.aftvnews.com/spmc-requests-app-withdrawal-to-protest-kodis-removal-from-amazon-appstore/
And then - nothing, at least in here. Please dont be afraid to talk about Amazons unprecedented move to declare a Video Player "illegal".
I would really like to force this conversation.
To kindle some of the dialogue on topic - SPMC tries to get pulled to force the conversation here. To NOT allow people to flee to a convenient alternative, that is not tarnished by having become Amazons target, on grounds that arent publicly declared. Changing the app doesnt solve the issue.
So what is the next step - if we cant provoke Amazon to provide a public statement, while they decided to declare war on media players - we have lost. You have lost. You can then fast forward a few decades and tell your grandchildren the boring story, of how you've stood by and were too afraid to make your voice heard, when Amazon outlawed general purpose software on Android devices.
Media outlets right now are reporting on it, but they are taking the strange aura of - "it is outlawed" - with them, between the lines. No one is willing to not call it "a mistake", but an attack on consumer rights.
If this dialogue doesnt get started - and I am willing to take the time and argue on one side, Amazon will just sit this one out, and it will be allowed to become a precedent.
in german we have a word for someone declaring that a person or a concept has fallen out of the authorities favor. It is called vogelfrei and it translates to "as free as a bird" but in effect it describes that this person has been stripped of all of their rights and property - and that this had been made public to be made an example out of. This is what currently is happening to Kodi.
If you have an opinion, if you want to show some support, please voice it. It only takes a few voices to get a dialogue started.
its no surprise amazon hates it.. it alows users to get for free what amazon charges way too much for...
them keeing it off the app store is a good thing really.. it gives less attention to certain plugins as the muggles wont be able to get as easily. so certain plugins will have less heat on them.
psycon said:
its no surprise amazon hates it.. it alows users to get for free what amazon charges way too much for...
them keeing it off the app store is a good thing really.. it gives less attention to certain plugins as the muggles wont be able to get as easily. so certain plugins will have less heat on them.
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But, what if you dont care about prolonging the life of certain plugins, by actively "pulling heat off of them".
What if you are a Kodi developer and you come to work tomorrow, launching your project files and have this strange feeling in your stomach - that you are now one of the bad guys, because you dont have submitted to corporate forces to include DRM in your software that will only allow certain extensions to work.
By what mode of thinking do you not pronounce this world crazy - because google does none of that on youtube, and only recently has pulled in extension distribution on Chrome in house, because of the profit motive (officially it is to "protect our users from rogue apps and viruses"). Because Calibre, the most commonly used tool to convert eBooks to Amazons azw format - even for submitting them to Amazon themselves, also has a plugin infrastructure and scraping built in. No one even cares to think to declare it "facilitating illegal use" because of it - in fact it is facilitating Amazon eBook creation for commercial use, if anything.
Amazon has closed down Fire TVs to a point, where there is only one viable distribution channel on it to get programs from for most people. Now they start to ban general purpose software on it, whenever it gets popular enough to compete with their own product offerings declaring it "facilitating illegal use" and not giving any explanation?
Heck, all Amazon products could be declared to be illegal tomorrow, when we are following the explaination that is taking form here - if Amazon would be forced to release a statement as to why they consider general purpose software illegal, we could then take this definition and apply it to them to see if they are adhering to the same standards, when it fits their business interests. This is what this whole episode is about.
You cant declare something "facilitating illegal use" and not give out any reasoning. You cant start banning media players from your distribution channels, and believe, that the world tomorrow will go on the same way it has before.
Just remove all CD burning software, all flashdrives, all MP3 Players, all eReaders, even the Fire TV itself - from your storefront, while you are at it, because you just engaged in a serious example of fostering double standards - when you think, that you can get away with it, without too much publicity.
What about, the prospect, that as a Kodi developer you care about the "muggles" - and you dont care so much about the dumb pirates who will always shout out "it costs too much", regardless what you throw at them? But you also care about open access - and dont believe that every content that can be played back by your software should have to be vetted by you first.
What if you dont believe in putting in DRM hooks into your software project, so it can be considered "marketable" in the minds of whoever currently is promoting his digital agenda?
Amazon is no more legal than Kodi. In none of what they are doing, selling, promoting or declaring. They just are better at promoting double standards. And when they speak out a ban, most journalists headlines follow their messaging - not even stopping for one second to question what is happening here.
What if you are a Kodi developer that was encouraged to do this work through being sought out as a participant in Googles "Summer of Code" programs year, after year, after year - and all of a sudden your work is being dragged through the gutter - once your featureset has been copied and no one sees any use for your position not to be willing to pronounce what is considered "officially too naughty for an Apple Appstore". Which by the way - also contains political satire, because the mid west likes his ways.
If you are under 30, why all of a sudden are you thinking like your dad?
Sorry this was a dud for you, but nobody cares. You aren't starting a revolution. SPMC is the #3175 ranked app on Amazon. It hasn't even been updated since 13.4, so I doubt the developer cares that much. And again, it doesn't change a thing. We'll just sideload it like we always have. Until Amazon actually blocks this from running, save your breath. All you have done here is helped Amazon get content they don't like removed. Really, prod the TVMC dev next. Amazon will love you. That is much higher ranked and actually includes piracy.
Amazon does have the right to remove and app without reason, just as Koying, Kodi or anyone else has a right to remove their app at their request. It is given in the same terms, sections 6, of the developer agreement. If you don't like it, don't use their store and sign the terms and conditions. They don't owe you or anyone else an explanation.
App Availability; Withdrawal. We may determine in our discretion to make any App available through our Program.
And having you spout your craziness all over each place this is posted makes it look like #freekodi being pioneered by a crazy person. Some people follow the crazies, but not the masses. You, personally, are pushing them away. So you should stay quiet if you want to see this succeed with whatever you are trying to do. Just some advice.
Also, you have insulted AFTVNEWs and XDA directly on this forum. You lambaste anyone for going to "clickbait blogs" to get fed an opinion. Yet you turn right to them when it fits your agenda. You sir are a hypocrite. No one is listening to you.
jpeg42 said:
Sorry this was a dud for you, but nobody cares. You aren't starting a revolution. SPMC is the #3175 ranked app on Amazon. It hasn't even been updated since 13.4, so I doubt the developer cares that much. And again, it doesn't change a thing. We'll just sideload it like we always have. Until Amazon actually blocks this from running, save your breath. All you have done here is helped Amazon get content they don't like removed. Really, prod the TVMC dev next. Amazon will love you. That is much higher ranked and actually includes piracy.
Amazon does have the right to remove and app without reason, just as Koying, Kodi or anyone else has a right to remove their app at their request. It is given in the same terms, sections 6, of the developer agreement. If you don't like it, don't use their store and sign the terms and conditions. They don't owe you or anyone else an explanation.
App Availability; Withdrawal. We may determine in our discretion to make any App available through our Program.
And having you spout your craziness all over each place this is posted makes it look like #freekodi being pioneered by a crazy person. Some people follow the crazies, but not the masses. You, personally, are pushing them away. So you should stay quiet if you want to see this succeed with whatever you are trying to do. Just some advice.
Also, you have insulted AFTVNEWs and XDA directly on this forum. You lambaste anyone for going to "clickbait blogs" to get fed an opinion. Yet you turn right to them when it fits your agenda. You sir are a hypocrite. No one is listening to you.
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Seems ike you are doing exactly what you tried to talk down to me for doing. When I opposed the idiot that started this thread you said I was wrong for doing it, now you are doing the same exact thing that I did. We are both right to call him out because he is wrong about everything and is super ruude to everyone.
To the OP, nothing you say is factual and nobody cares what you have to say. There are many other sites and ways to obtain Kodi so if Amazon does not want Kodi in their store it is totally fine. Kodi was removed a week before you even said anything about it and you would not have even known it was removed if you did not read it on AFTVNews.com. Kodi was removed on June 6th, and you didn't even know so its clear that if you cared you would have been checkin up on it. The same site (AFTVNEWS.com) you say you hate is where you get all of your info.
Its clear that the only reason you care about Kodi is the same reason Amazon decided to remove it. If Kodi did not give you an easy way to view illegal content you would not care at all. You are just paranoid that Amazon is gonna block you from using Kodi and take away your convenient way of finding and watching illegal streams. I do not hear you complaining about any of the other apps they removed. As a matter of fact you challenged anyone to name another app that Amazon has removed and when I named Modern Combat 5 you made an excuse about them removing it and said that MC5 was just a COD ripoff. You cannot complain about them removing Kodi and saying they are attacking us by doing so, if you are not gonna defend other apps too. Like I said, its clear why Kodi is the only app that matters to you, cause you do want to pay for TV and movies and you are scared that Amazon is gonna do something to block Kodi on your device. Let me help you stop compaining, Amazon is not gonna block Kodi or any other versions of Kodi, I promise, now get over it.
porkenhimer said:
Seems ike you are doing exactly what you tried to talk down to me for doing. When I opposed the idiot that started this thread you said I was wrong for doing it, now you are doing the same exact thing that I did. We are both right to call him out because he is wrong about everything and is super ruude to everyone.
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Yes, I apologize for that. I have seen the light. I am going to take the advice I gave to you back then. I am going to ignore this user. I am just as much responsible for his continued rants by responding to them.
jpeg42 said:
Yes, I apologize for that. I have seen the light. I am going to take the advice I gave to you back then. I am going to ignore this user. I am just as much responsible for his continued rants by responding to them.
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You never gave me that advice at all. You simply talked down to me for no reason. I am pretty sure it was simply because you took something I said wrong even after I apologized and told you what I actually meant you kept trying to insult me everytime i would post something. You're just as bad as the OP. When someone says something you do not agreee with you try to insult them. Its understandable tryin to talk down to the OP, cause he really is going way overboard with his nonsense, but you are rude to people even when they have done nothing wrong. Not only were you rude to me for no reason, you attacked me when I was not even talking to you on the Kingroot thread, then cheered the guy on that I was talking to. Its cool though, cause I realize now that you are just a know it all that just wants to be heard, so feel free to insult me anytime if it makes you feel better about yourself.
porkenhimer said:
You never gave me that advice at all. You simply talked down to me for no reason. I am pretty sure it was simply because you took something I said wrong even after I apologized and told you what I actually meant you kept trying to insult me everytime i would post something. You're just as bad as the OP. When someone says something you do not agreee with you try to insult them. Its understandable tryin to talk down to the OP, cause he really is going way overboard with his nonsense, but you are rude to people even when they have done nothing wrong. Not only were you rude to me for no reason, you attacked me when I was not even talking to you on the Kingroot thread, then cheered the guy on that I was talking to. Its cool though, cause I realize now that you are just a know it all that just wants to be heard, so feel free to insult me anytime if it makes you feel better about yourself.
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Whatever man. You ramble like crazy and I call you out for it. I'll never respond to you again too. Promise.
jpeg42 said:
Whatever man. You ramble like crazy and I call you out for it. I'll never respond to you again too. Promise.
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I hope not, cause all you are doing is trying to cause drama. Who tries to insult someone for doing something then does the same exact thing they tried insulting someone else for doing, then apologizes when they get called out on it? You, and that should tell you how rude you are to others. Lame as hell for you to be rude then turn right back around and do the axact same thing you told someone else not to do.
Once again, this topic is being closed.
You can "force" this discussion elsewhere. It's only bringing drama to XDA, and we don't like drama here. It disrupts the love! :highfive:
This is a site for developers and development. Every time this has been brought up, arguments ensue. And frankly, its irrelevant to the purpose of this site.
No more of these rant threads please, or they will follow this one to the Closed file.
Thank you,
Darth
Forum Moderator