Hey G2'ers, I've got a question: how well does your GPS work?
I (and the wife) currently own Samsung Vibrants, which are great devices save for the woeful GPS and compass performance. Turns out this is kind of a big deal; google nav completely flakes out in cities or at stop lights, and I find myself horribly frustrated with it. As a point of comparison, I find that device much worse than the GPS on my old Nokia N95 or iPhone 3G.
I'd love to know how the GPS on the G2 holds up; does it get a lock quickly? Is it accurate when recording tracks? Does google nav's arrow point in the correct direction when you're stationary? Does sky maps work?
Especially awesome would be opinions from anybody who's used both devices.
Thanks!
I have both devices. Suffered through some of the woes on the Vibrant with the GPS, locating fixes. Froyo on the Vibrant seems to fix some of the issues but truth be told, I still have had GPS issues. On the G2, I have not used tracks but I have used GPS a bit like "places" and "maps". Both seem to get locks very quickly compared to the Vibrant. The external quality of the G2 seems better at a subjective level to me since it feels "metal-ly" and the Vibrant while slick looking still feels kinda plastic.
The main issue for me was rooting and getting the latest updates. The Vibrant took awhile to get some ROMs going with Froyo and after loading a few different ones, it still seems a work in progress. The G2 comes with a "vanilla" look but they load these applications which for some reason they think I would want. There are ways to remove or disable them without getting root.
All in all, I like the G2 for its "heft" and feel in my hand. The G2 feels like you are holding something and its physically a beautiful phone to me. The Vibrant is all glossy and plastic looking. Both phones are nice. Given the choice, I would take the G2 since its been rooted permanently. I would choose the Vibrant for other reasons like a simple root path; but Froyo has taken way too long and I got tired of waiting.
I'm not convinced battery life is much better on either; but on the G2, I've been running JuiceDefender Ultimate and I get decent battery life on the regular battery. On the Vibrant with Froyo it seemed the battery just drained and I think there are processes running when the handset is in standby which drain the battery IMO.
Final analysis for me is what phone I feel the most comfortable using. I like the G2 for many reasons and have given the Vibrant to my daughter as her first touch screen phone. She likes lots of games and the display and the Vibrant will hold bunches of stuff.
I can't help with the final decision because its yours.
mpmilestogo said:
I have both devices. Suffered through some of the woes on the Vibrant with the GPS, locating fixes. Froyo on the Vibrant seems to fix some of the issues but truth be told, I still have had GPS issues. On the G2, I have not used tracks but I have used GPS a bit like "places" and "maps". Both seem to get locks very quickly compared to the Vibrant. The external quality of the G2 seems better at a subjective level to me since it feels "metal-ly" and the Vibrant while slick looking still feels kinda plastic.
The main issue for me was rooting and getting the latest updates. The Vibrant took awhile to get some ROMs going with Froyo and after loading a few different ones, it still seems a work in progress. The G2 comes with a "vanilla" look but they load these applications which for some reason they think I would want. There are ways to remove or disable them without getting root.
All in all, I like the G2 for its "heft" and feel in my hand. The G2 feels like you are holding something and its physically a beautiful phone to me. The Vibrant is all glossy and plastic looking. Both phones are nice. Given the choice, I would take the G2 since its been rooted permanently. I would choose the Vibrant for other reasons like a simple root path; but Froyo has taken way too long and I got tired of waiting.
I'm not convinced battery life is much better on either; but on the G2, I've been running JuiceDefender Ultimate and I get decent battery life on the regular battery. On the Vibrant with Froyo it seemed the battery just drained and I think there are processes running when the handset is in standby which drain the battery IMO.
Final analysis for me is what phone I feel the most comfortable using. I like the G2 for many reasons and have given the Vibrant to my daughter as her first touch screen phone. She likes lots of games and the display and the Vibrant will hold bunches of stuff.
I can't help with the final decision because its yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome, thanks for the input.
The slow pace of progress on the Vibrant is also a cause of concern for me. Even though the G2 has suffered in getting root working initially, the fact that it's an HTC device seems to be radically speeding up progress now that it's been rooted. The unfortunate lack of open source drivers for some key components in the Vibrant means that, at least for a while, a pure AOSP-based release is off the table, and waiting for Samsung is a real downer.
Now all that said, I really love the Vibrant's form factor and display. I've held a demo G2 and it feels great, but it's a bit on the clunky side for me. I know I'd be OK with it, it's just not exactly what I want; if I could have the G2's guts in the Vibrant's form factor (and with the Vibrant's display!) I'd be all over it
Ultimately, all that said, a working *good* GPS and compass are going to be the deciding factors for me though. I just rely on that stuff too much to be happy with the performance I see from the Vibrant.
JeremyNT said:
Does google nav's arrow point in the correct direction when you're stationary? Does sky maps work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you are asking for is impossible. GPS does not provide any information on ORIENTATION, nor is it used in sky maps any more significantly than simply finding your location on the surface of the planet. Sky maps uses the COMPASS much more than the GPS since it can actually determine your orientation wrt the planet's magnetic field.
GPS devices can only judge a direction that you are pointing by assuming that the DIRECTION you are moving in **IS FORWARD**. If you are driving backwards, google maps will turn the map upside down.
Now vibrant is a samsung phone. You realize that the nexus S is as well? It has apparently been delayed on account of THIS EXACT PROBLEM. There is some SERIOUS issue, either with the firmware or with the hardware on those devices that is leading to your frustrations... and there are apparently MULTIPLE causes coming together.
I really wouldn't worry about the GPS and compass on the VISION. HTC (unlike samsung) has a good track record with these components.
My g2 has a great gps. Locks quick and is accurate every time. I've used tracks to test and walking 100 yards and back with varying direction was mapped perfectly.
I had the captivated before (ATT version of vibrant) and it was horrible. The file system, gps, battery life, random shutdowns, cheap feel, plus ATT locks the market down and disabled sidelong of apps.
The problems of the g2 are minor compared that other mess of a phone. JMO
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Agreed with everyone. The Galaxy S gps is horribly slow.(don't get me started on the touchwiz interface)
But there have been people who liked the galaxy s more than the g2, and because you are asking this in a g2 section.. it tends to be a bit bias.
I would go to a store and check active demos and decide for yourself.
One of the best phone out there, with oc to 1.4 ghz it will be best keyboard phone out there for a while. Stock android is a only way to go. Other addons like track pad wake just make a cherry on top and I am sure that there will be more cool stuff to follow. Hope this helps.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
dhkr123 said:
What you are asking for is impossible. GPS does not provide any information on ORIENTATION, nor is it used in sky maps any more significantly than simply finding your location on the surface of the planet. Sky maps uses the COMPASS much more than the GPS since it can actually determine your orientation wrt the planet's magnetic field.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google navigation uses the compass to determine orientation of the arrow when you're stationary. I know this because, in the case of the Vibrant, the compass is always wrong. This contributes to issues when I'm sitting at a light, since google nav will use the (bogus) compass reading on the Vibrant and decide I must be facing the wrong way, triggering a reroute.
JeremyNT said:
Google navigation uses the compass to determine orientation of the arrow when you're stationary. I know this because, in the case of the Vibrant, the compass is always wrong. This contributes to issues when I'm sitting at a light, since google nav will use the (bogus) compass reading on the Vibrant and decide I must be facing the wrong way, triggering a reroute.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't use the compass. It is constantly polling the GPS to see which direction you are traveling. So if one second you are at a specific location and the next second you are 5 feet to the North, it thinks you are moving North at a speed of 5ft/s. The reason they don't use the compass to see what direction you are traveling is because what if you turn your phone sideways while navigating? Or what if I turn my phone sideways to the left but you turn your sideways to the right? Will you be traveling backwards?
It polls the GPS. And since the GPS on the Vibrant is so inaccurate and unreliable, it sometimes thinks you have moved when you are standing still. That's why it sometimes thinks you are facing backwards when you are at a stoplight. It thinks that you have actually moved backwards a foot or two.
gravis86 said:
It doesn't use the compass. It is constantly polling the GPS to see which direction you are traveling. So if one second you are at a specific location and the next second you are 5 feet to the North, it thinks you are moving North at a speed of 5ft/s. The reason they don't use the compass to see what direction you are traveling is because what if you turn your phone sideways while navigating? Or what if I turn my phone sideways to the left but you turn your sideways to the right? Will you be traveling backwards?
It polls the GPS. And since the GPS on the Vibrant is so inaccurate and unreliable, it sometimes thinks you have moved when you are standing still. That's why it sometimes thinks you are facing backwards when you are at a stoplight. It thinks that you have actually moved backwards a foot or two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google maps most certainly does use the compass to determine which direction the arrow points if you're stationary.
keenerb said:
Google maps most certainly does use the compass to determine which direction the arrow points if you're stationary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tell me, how does the compass know what direction you are facing?
gravis86 said:
Tell me, how does the compass know what direction you are facing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it's a COMPASS, man. It's a tiny little magnet(*) inside the phone that a sensor uses to determine whether you're facing north, south, east, or west.
How do you think layar or google sky maps knows which direction you're facing if you're standing still?
keenerb said:
Because it's a COMPASS, man. It's a tiny little magnet(*) inside the phone that a sensor uses to determine whether you're facing north, south, east, or west.
How do you think layar or google sky maps knows which direction you're facing if you're standing still?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what a compass is. What I meant was how does it know what direction YOU are facing? I'll answer that question for you. It doesn't. A compass tells which direction is North relative to the orientation of the compass (or in this case phone) itself.
If you assume that the top edge of the phone is always pointing in the direction the user is facing, then the compass would work for that. This is how the Google Sky Maps application works - it assumes that you are facing the same direction as the camera on the back of the phone. So it works.
Assuming that any particular edge of the phone is facing forward during navigation is bad programming. Like I asked earlier, what if I turn my phone upside-down, or one the right side versus the left? The compass will know what direction the phone is facing, but now the phone is facing the opposite direction of me. So does it think I'm going backwards?
Of course, if you hold your phone upside down, or backwards, the compass may report an incorrect direction.
That doesn't really have any bearing on my comment, or the fact that google maps WILL use the compass to determine orientation when stationary.
I think you're rebutting an argument I'm not making.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
keenerb said:
Of course, if you hold your phone upside down, or backwards, the compass may report an incorrect direction.
That doesn't really have any bearing on my comment, or the fact that google maps WILL use the compass to determine orientation when stationary.
I think you're rebutting an argument I'm not making.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was showing you the reasoning behind why Google Maps does not use the compass to determine orientation. It does not because it can not. Google engineers aren't that dumb. The only time Google Maps activates the compass it when the user has selected StreetView.
I disagree on both counts.
The reason google maps uses derived direction of travel rather than compass orientation is because direction of travel is more useful to a moving vehicle than true orientation. That, and some devices may not have a functional or calibrated compass.
Also, on my google maps, while standing still, the arrow is currently indicating my true orientation based on the internal compass. Perhaps your version is different.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
I totally forgot about the accelerometer. My bad. Google Maps uses the accelerometer to determine the orientation of the device relative to you, and then the compass to determine the orientation of the device relative to the Earth. So it actually can see what direction you are facing... I stand corrected.
My gps was having nasty issues pre OTA, but now it works beautifully
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
I love these forums. We start with a question about the Vibrant versus the G2 handset. We end up and I learn a lot about compasses, GPS, which way I should face, and accelerometers!
Thanks wizards of XDA. You guys rule! I mean it seriously. The evolution of threads on XDA is an interesting cultural and sociological perspective.
Related
Guys
I got two Vibrants to replace two G1s.
The compass is all over the place.
You change the phone inclination and north moves to east! You move it again, and north moves to south!
The G1s are precise. You tilt the phone but the north stays at north.
I'm confused.
Are you guys seeing this issue?
I commented on this in another forum. The compass SUCKS BAD!!! It's horrible.
I believe that the GPS is also 2nd rate. It works well at faster speeds such as driving in a car, but when walking or running it's all over the place and VERY INACCURATE.
When I had the Evo, using Google Sky was 100% smooth and instant. On the Vibrant it's jerky and inaccurate. I'm guessing this is due to the compass issue? Hopefully it's a software/firmware issue.
Yeah, I noticed while using GPSstatus that the compass reacts very slowly to changes in orientation. Samsung has been touting their 6 axis motion sensor, but it seems to be inferior to other products from what I'm seeing.
I've herd a lot about this but mine is working perfectly, well better than my N1 anyway and racing games are easier to play on this phone also, mines response smoothly.
Is there anyone else that has one work good ?
I just used the NAV and it had me exiting at nearly every exit. It never pinpointed my location, It was always 0-100ft range and had to constantly reroute. I was on a major interstate (5 lane each way). G1 was much better but G1 did take an age to find my location initally.
Is it possible the orientation of the sensor is different in the Vibrant as compared to other android phones? I tried the compass after reading this thread on my vibrant and noticed that if you lay the phone flat horizontal and spin it, the compass doesn't do anything. Now if you start tilting the phone up and down, the compass starts spinning. It's acting almost like it is reading the wrong orientation from the sensor...
SykesAT said:
I just used the NAV and it had me exiting at nearly every exit. It never pinpointed my location, It was always 0-100ft range and had to constantly reroute. I was on a major interstate (5 lane each way). G1 was much better but G1 did take an age to find my location initally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EXACTLY how mine was today when navigating for the first time. I was on the highway when I came close to the off ramp, the GPS thought that I exited off the highway. What gives? My G1 I had since the day it came out never did this.
I just did a little testing,
The compass does not work right in any application. I tried streetview (with compass mode), wikitude, google skymaps, layar, and a compass app...
The thing just wildly swings around and does not point in the right direction ever. I tried calibrating it several times and it didn't help. I don't have a case on my phone and my g1 seems to handle the task just fine in the same room.
I have the same problem. The compass does not work at all, and 'swings around wildly' is 100% accurate.
Man, this is upsetting.
Another vote for the compass being pretty much worthless. Found a thread at androidforums (androidforums com / samsung-galaxy-s/104872-gps-issues.html) saying that samsung is working on a software fix by next month. Given the issues I've also seen with the wildly innacurate GPS and signal bars, I'm hoping these are all fixable with a firmware update.
This is the best android phone tmo has seen (and will probably see) for a while, so I'm hoping it's all just software.
My compass has Parkinsons. Hope we can get an official comment from samsung or tmobile before our 14 days are up!
Sent from my Samsung Vibrant using XDA App and Swype
If something isn't said within the next week, I'm returning the phone. It's unacceptable to have such hardware flaws like that.
I'm really hoping they come forward and something is said soon. I'd hate to lose this screen.
I just went to a few t-mobile stores today to try out their display models and compare the compass performance with my Vibrant. Every single Vibrant I tested in the stores had the same problem. I think either there was a ton of phones going out with bad compasses or the firmware is messed up and most people don't realize it because they don't use apps that utilize it.
unxconformed said:
I just went to a few t-mobile stores today to try out their display models and compare the compass performance with my Vibrant. Every single Vibrant I tested in the stores had the same problem. I think either there was a ton of phones going out with bad compasses or the firmware is messed up and most people don't realize it because they don't use apps that utilize it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you.
Anyway, isn't that weird that a big company like Samsung released a SMART phone with such big flaws?
I mean, compass and gps are pretty much useless. On a phone that is Android based, with Maps and all sorts of location aware apps, it really surprises me that NO ONE at Samsung USA or Tmobile found these problems before.
Think about it: it took me 30 minutes after I received my phones to realize something was not right. A TMobile engineer testing this phone should be able to find the problem, EASILY, in less than one day.
Amazing.
Anyway, I don't know if I can post URLs here, but if you go to
androidforums dot com/samsung-galaxy-s/104872-gps-issues.html
you will notice that this phone is presenting these problems for a couple of months now, all over Europe and Asia, and so far with no solution or official statement from the manufacturer.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
I read somewhere on the i9000 forums that the compass reports NON-STANDARD figures. It only requires a software fix. Samsung confirmed this 'bug' and it should be staged for next firmware update (Hopefully)
I was doing a bit of poking around online and it does sound like Samsung's compass doesn't report it's values the same as the HTC units. I don't know if that is true or not, but you can download this app below and look at your compass output / accelerometer output and see the problem in real time.
http://mobilizycom.easycgi.com/dl/sensortest.html
When you run this app, look at the first 3 values for X, Y and Z. X represents your compass heading (ie direction pointing north, south, etc...) Y represents your pitch (angle from horizon in the vertical direction) Z represents your roll. To help visualize, think of your phone as a little airplane with the nose of the plane being the top of your phone (near usb port) and the wings being parallel with the screen surface.
What I noticed was that Y and Z report perfectly in real time and are accurate to represent my movements. X on the other hand is super delayed and after you make a move, you have to sit and wait for a while for the value to catch up to the actual heading. It also jumps around a bit and sometimes drifts away.
The next three values, a, b, and c are your accelerometer outputs.
I'm guessing the Y and Z values are calculated via the accelerometers and not the magnetometer, but it is very clear that the heading X is delayed, jumps around and in general is poor.
Try it for yourself if you'd like to confirm. I'd be interested in if some people had accuracy and response times on the X being the same as their Y and Z.
As much as I love xda, and 'the word' of people...
Could someone please post a link where Samsung actually said they're working on a fix for the Galaxy S compass problems (in Asia or otherwise)? This is a pretty expensive device, and these flaws are really unforgivable, if they are hardware-related (non-fixable).
The news of their knowledge / fixing of the problem is the deciding factor in me keeping this otherwise excellent device.
I meet with this problem too, double checked with my Hero, it's Vibrant's problem for sure.
I am wondering if Samsung will work on this bug.
Anybody has any idea about if I can return this phone because of this deficiency? I bought it from RadioShark and the 6 axis motion sensor is the only reason( I am a developer).
cnbuff410 said:
I meet with this problem too, double checked with my Hero, it's Vibrant's problem for sure.
I am wondering if Samsung will work on this bug.
Anybody has any idea about if I can return this phone because of this deficiency? I bought it from RadioShark and the 6 axis motion sensor is the only reason( I am a developer).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on hold with Samsung right now. I'm sure they'll feed me a line of bull****, but we'll see.
T-Mobile said that there is zero flexibility, outside of the Buyer's Remorse grace period. The CSR said that it's ultimately up to the retail manager, and that some stores are very flexible, especially for long-term customers, when it comes to defective devices.
Otherwise, I was told to be worried about the Buyer's Remorse period, and that if I had any doubts, I should return it so as to not be stuck with a $500+ device that does not function properly.
They also said that they've heard nothing from Samsung regarding the matter...
Do these things have a gps issue? I just came from an Evo, and gps reception on these sucks compared to Evo.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
herzzreh said:
Do these things have a gps issue? I just came from an Evo, and gps reception on these sucks compared to Evo.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bwahahahaha!! The answer to your question is that all the Galaxy S variants have GPS issues!
Some people claim they have trouble
On my epic google maps takes a long time to lock
But on google navigator and sprint navteq it locks on no more than 20 seconds it usually locks on in 5 to 10 seconds
What's weird ,is that to use google navigator. You have to use google maps to get to google navigator
Open google maps type place or address then hit drive directions then it switches on to google navigator then instantly gps locks on
If you just open google maps and turn the gps on and hit my location the gps takes a while to lock....but not when u start google nav.
I have no problem since when i use google maps, I never use my location.
I look up address and for driving directions via google navigator.
The problem with the GPS is that the cache doesn't update unless you reboot the phone. The longer the phone has been on the worse it gets. If you follow the instructions below it cause the GPS to update the cache over 3G whenever you fire up a GPS App. It only takes a few seconds to do this and then you get a fast lock after that. The only problem is if you are in an area with no signal and try to use the GPS. If that is going to be the case then follow the instructions again and change it to Warm Boot. Here are the instructions:
Enter GPS debug/settings application by typing *#1472365#
click "Setup" tab
click "position mode"
Click "starting mode
Enable "Cold Start"
Back out.
Ah... well, my problem wasn't the lock-on. That was normal. It's the accuracy and ability to hold signal. Again, comparing it to the Evo... this phone had that huge circle of inaccuracy while driving and Evo did not at the same time. Slightest obstruction and this would lose the signal while the other phone would not. Very frustrating.
herzzreh said:
Ah... well, my problem wasn't the lock-on. That was normal. It's the accuracy and ability to hold signal. Again, comparing it to the Evo... this phone had that huge circle of inaccuracy while driving and Evo did not at the same time. Slightest obstruction and this would lose the signal while the other phone would not. Very frustrating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for lockon issues, which due to a bug in the cache system and will affect all users who don't cycle the phones cache, use the cold start as indicated above.
For accuracy issues it is important to remember to make sure to leave "use wireless networking" off.
aero1 said:
for lockon issues, which due to a bug in the cache system and will affect all users who don't cycle the phones cache, use the cold start as indicated above.
For accuracy issues it is important to remember to make sure to leave "use wireless networking" off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought we were supposed to leave that on.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
acegolfer said:
I thought we were supposed to leave that on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That advice is disinformation from Sprint customer service. They are trying to cover up the fact that the GPS has problems, so they advise users to enable the non-GPS location by cell towers, which is not as accurate.
aero1 said:
For accuracy issues it is important to remember to make sure to leave "use wireless networking" off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried that, still not too accurate compared to the other phone. What I noticed is that it IS accurate right after a hard reset, but then half an hour later it goes back to showing the circle.
herzzreh said:
I tried that, still not too accurate compared to the other phone. What I noticed is that it IS accurate right after a hard reset, but then half an hour later it goes back to showing the circle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the Galaxy S variants have a problem with SNR. Basically, the antenna has issues getting a strong GPS signal and some are worse then others; some can't even achieve a lock! Low signal = bad accuracy....
As for a fix, I'm not sure if Samsung can really fix it, if it's a design issue. On the Galaxy Forum, there was a guy that said it was possible to fix a low signal hardware flaw with software. Me, I'm highly doubtful it can be done where a Galaxy S GPS will ever be as good as the other Android phones currently on the market. I think they will eventually get it to the point where Nav will work most of the time, but not to where others are using there Android phones for Geo caching.
Didn't they fix it on fascinate?
sent from my epic 4g with no 4g
churro7 said:
Didn't they fix it on fascinate?
sent from my epic 4g with no 4g
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope... Just do a search on the Fascinate forum and you'll find it's got GPS problems too.
Rogers in Canada said their version of the Galaxy S (Captivate) will have the GPS fixed, but we'll know when it hits the market in a few days. It might take a couple weeks before we start seeing the reports roll in.... If they truly have a Galaxy S phone with a working GPS, I'd like to see the mainboard. If it's the same as other versions of the Galaxy S, then maybe they were able to fix it with software. If it's a hardware design change .... Well, then the rest of the Galaxy S owners may be SOL.
GPS on Epic = Epic FAIL
Shame on Samsung for releasing the Epic with a half assed implementation of a GPS.
It is just one of those "what were they thinking" situations.
I mean didn t they release a patch
sent from my epic 4g with no 4g
crabjoe said:
Nope... Just do a search on the Fascinate forum and you'll find it's got GPS problems too.
Rogers in Canada said their version of the Galaxy S (Captivate) will have the GPS fixed, but we'll know when it hits the market in a few days. It might take a couple weeks before we start seeing the reports roll in.... If they truly have a Galaxy S phone with a working GPS, I'd like to see the mainboard. If it's the same as other versions of the Galaxy S, then maybe they were able to fix it with software. If it's a hardware design change .... Well, then the rest of the Galaxy S owners may be SOL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GSM versions of the Galaxy S, which includes the Captivate, Vibrant and International I9000, have one GPS chip -- the relatively new Broadcom BCM4751. The CDMA versions, the Epic and the Fascinate , use another -- the multipurpose Qualcomm QSC6085 radio that has been in use for three years. As far as the GPS is concerned, these are really two different devices: Different hardware. Different firmware. Different bugs. Different symptoms. (I have owned Vibrants and an Epic, and have tested the GPS rigorously on both. They behave very differently. The GPS bugs on the Epic are unique to the Epic as far as I know, although it is difficult to tell about the Fascinate from anecdotal reports and Verizon slapped a confusing user interface on the settings for location services and GPS.)
The only thing the two general designs have in common is general incompetence. Samsung managed to foul up two different GPS designs in two different ways.
But it is folly to try to make inferential comparisons between the two types.
churro7 said:
I mean didn t they release a patch
sent from my epic 4g with no 4g
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but it didn't work.
boomerbubba said:
The GSM versions of the Galaxy S, which includes the Captivate, Vibrant and International I9000, have one GPS chip -- the relatively new Broadcom BCM4751. The CDMA versions, the Epic and the Fascinate , use another -- the multipurpose Qualcomm QSC6085 radio that has been in use for three years. As far as the GPS is concerned, these are really two different devices: Different hardware. Different firmware. Different bugs. Different symptoms. (I have owned Vibrants and an Epic, and have tested the GPS rigorously on both. They behave very differently. The GPS bugs on the Epic are unique to the Epic as far as I know, although it is difficult to tell about the Fascinate from anecdotal reports and Verizon slapped a confusing user interface on the settings for location services and GPS.)
The only thing the two general designs have in common is general incompetence. Samsung managed to foul up two different GPS designs in two different ways.
But it is folly to try to make inferential comparisons between the two types.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're correct that the GPS hardware is different and personally, I don't think either GPS chips are the problem. I think the problem is hardware design, as in placement or size of the GPS antenna.
It's like in the old days before cable was popular and everyone had rabbit ears on tops of the TV. Regardless of how good or bad the TV tuner was, the type or placement of the antenna made a huge difference. I remember putting tin foil on the antennas to try and get a better signal. I also remember my dad telling me to stand in a funny position or place, with the antenna in my hand, so he could watch his football. LOL...
I really think Samsung designers goofed, just like Apple did, on the antenna. Bad antenna = bad signal.
crabjoe said:
You're correct that the GPS hardware is different and personally, I don't think either GPS chips are the problem. I think the problem is hardware design, as in placement or size of the GPS antenna.
It's like in the old days before cable was popular and everyone had rabbit ears on tops of the TV. Regardless of how good or bad the TV tuner was, the type or placement of the antenna made a huge difference. I remember putting tin foil on the antennas to try and get a better signal. I also remember my dad telling me to stand in a funny position or place, with the antenna in my hand, so he could watch his football. LOL...
I really think Samsung designers goofed, just like Apple did, on the antenna. Bad antenna = bad signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must say that I have zero accuracy issues whatsoever. I *do* have stale ephemeris data problems like nobody's business - cold-start mode won't help either if I'm connected to WiFi or 4G (though 4G seems to have better luck.) The software-reported accuracy issues are a hard-coded datum, which in the Captivate has now been removed.
If I don't exclusively sit on 3G, then either Hot-start or Cold-start are unreliable. If I *am* on 3G, then Hot-start pinpoints me exactly, and almost instantly. With cold-start, it takes a bit to narrow in, though the *initial* lock is often faster. Other times, I'll see (in GPS Status) that it has found all 10 satellites, but not locked - the ephemeris bug all over again. Disappointing to say the least. BTW, this is not fixed on Captivate - it cannot get a lock while on WiFi. This has got to be a software problem. Neither my Epic nor Captivate have any issues actually sticking to the satellites. If this were software, then the GPS itself would be unreliable *during* operation; not just initial lock.
crabjoe said:
You're correct that the GPS hardware is different and personally, I don't think either GPS chips are the problem. I think the problem is hardware design, as in placement or size of the GPS antenna.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SNR levels on the Epic do seem moderately lower than what other phones report. Theroretically this could be due to antenna design. The SNR level itself is a complex estimate by the GPS chip, not an objective reality being metered. So another possible explanation is that the SNR calculation is buggy. The estimated accuracy calculation is obviously buggy, always reported at 30.0 meters as if it is hard-coded. So there could also be a bug in the calculation of SNR, too. As for antenna design, I don't even assume that the Epic has the same antenna design as other Galaxy S phones, because its form factor is completely different.
In any case, signal sensitivity cannot explain the locking behavior, which has been isolated by user testing to be caused by bad handling of the cache of GPS almanac and ephemeris data. This is a bug.
Poor signal sensitivity could explain problems with actual accuracy. But like APOLAUF, I don't think there is a problem with actual actual accuracy on the Epic. The way to test that empirically is by plotting the recorded tracks in software such as My Tracks. If have done that with my Epic, for both driving and walking tracks, simultaneously with benchmark tracks captured by a known good device. I used my venerable G1, which has excellent GPS performance. The actual accuracy of the Epic is just as good.
The other GSM-based Galaxy S devices have had problems with actual accuracy, verified by many tests with My Tracks. But they are wholly different devices.
It is hard to tell from anecdotal reports in forums how accurate GPS performance is. Some reports of poor accuracy can be explained by poor locking. Some can be explained by pilot error. It takes controlled testing to get at the facts. Unfortunately, most commenters in forums, including this one, haven't a clue how to test the GPS rigorously.
IMO
First I have a co-worker who has been working with a developer and can get a GPS lock on his captivate super quick. To aide he is using the cell towers to get him a list of applicable satellites to his approximate location and gets a massive list of responding sats.
The next point is that I think that there is likely an issue with the Antenna . . but I do not think that is exclusively the issue. If this were strictly a HW issue then the issue would not be alleviated after a restart of the phone. There are multiple accounts that this is what is occurring.
Personally (and perhaps because this is my first true GPS phone) it is a minor inconvenience and doesnt bother me too much. . . . but is annoying and something that I would expect Sammy to go after. . . or at least acknowledge
Hi,
Does anyone else find that the gyroscope is useless on this phone. In street view or Google earth, if I use the hardware sensor to control movement the movement is really jerky and all over the place. Even the compass seems to be screwing up as a 360 turn only seems to have 3 or 4 discreet steps rather than being smooth.
I've installed phone tester and monitored the sensor output and even on a stable surface the values are all over the place.
Is this normal or am I going to have to get the phone replaced?
Cheers,
Phil
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
you have to wave the phone in a figure 8 pattern to calibrate the compass. I'm not sure why, but I have to do this every day. My Nexus S seems to lose its compass calibration everyday.
Is anyone else experiencing this? Or is it a hardware problem on mine?
sagech said:
you have to wave the phone in a figure 8 pattern to calibrate the compass. I'm not sure why, but I have to do this every day. My Nexus S seems to lose its compass calibration everyday.
Is anyone else experiencing this? Or is it a hardware problem on mine?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had mine about a week and this is the only thing that had upset me so far. Google Sky Map was exhibiting this same problem. It was fine on n1 and g2. hopefully it's a software/driver issue. I would have expected a fix by now though if it was.
Has google said anything yet of substance besides 'we'll talk to X team/we're looking into it...'?
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
I've also noticed this - maybe a hardware issue?
phillevy said:
I've also noticed this - maybe a hardware issue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plz oh plz let not be a hardware issue, cause it would mean it can't be fixed. I really hope is driver problem, since the NS it's the first google phone to have a gyroscope (as far as I know) so they didn't pin down the little brat.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
gratti said:
Plz oh plz let not be a hardware issue, cause it would mean it can't be fixed. I really hope is driver problem, since the NS it's the first google phone to have a gyroscope (as far as I know) so they didn't pin down the little brat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the gyroscope. It's the compass. The compass in our phone is extremely bad and subject to lots of noise/interference. It's very unlikely this will be fixed in a software patch, unless Invensense updates their library.
So to confirm this appears to be a general hardware fault with the compass? I can't believe that everyone has this problem on the Nexus S, it's a huge problem and I would have expected more fuss to have been made about it. I have used phone tester to determine what sensors I have on my phone:
Compass: AK8973 Orientation Sensor (Asahi Kasei Microdevices)
Magnetic field sensor: AK8973 3-axis magentic field sensor (Asahi Kasei Microdevices)
Accelerometer: KR3DM 3-axis Accelerometer (STMicroelectronics)
Gyroscope: K3G Gyroscope (STMicroelectronics)
It would be great if anyone who does not experience this problem could let us know and post what sensor they have to see if there are hardware variations around?
@chadrockey Where does Invensense come in? I've seen that they have produced new generation sensor but it appears that the Nexus S doesn't include it.
Invensense supplies the gyroscopes in the Wii MotionPlus and quite possibly the gyroscopes and some additional hardware in the Nexus S.
They also developed the sensor fusion algorithm in the new gingerbread APIs:
hhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7JQ7Rpwn2kOsg
It's more or less a problem with compasses in general and probably weak software applied to calculate heading.
Compasses also vary significantly in area, so the closer to the equator you are, the fewer problems you should have. You can also try indoors/outdoors away from dumpsters, cars, computers, anything metal.
All compasses are notorious for noise and having issues with anything metallic. Like computer cases, magnets, fridges, or even our NFC antenna.
ditto, compass sucks. it gets better when i move it away from speakers, computers, monitors, etc. also, i'm in toronto so it generally sucks everywhere. when i was in HK it was pretty good though.
Nexus' compass is totally borked: +/-30° deviation with back cover (nfc antenna), +/-20° without. (90° turns). My old htc hero performed MUCH better ...
[hfm] said:
It was fine on n1 and g2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chadrockey said:
It's more or less a problem with compasses in general and probably weak software applied to calculate heading
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, is it a software or hardware issue??
I cant confirm that. In maps the compass shows the exact direction im looking at. But i can confirm that none of the compass apps i downloaded showed it right most of them showed me south (i pointed to north) i turned 90° left and they showed sw another 90° and i saw se and next 90° showed me east. Same for sensor testing apps my phone lies on the floor and the values for acceleration, magnetic, gyroscope and compass where going crazy but i i couldnt see them bouncing more than +-2%
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
Same problem by me on LG Optimus One, I think it's Android or generally compass sensor problem. After every launch of some compass app, I need to re-calibrate it in figure 8 movement...
I'm currently on my fifth nexus s.. The compasses on the last four were pretty much unusable. The fifth one is noticeably a lot smoother. On a different note, every single nexus s i used was great in some areas and lacked in other areas. The first one i had was solid but every now and then when i was taking pictures the whole screen would turn red. I would have easily kept it. Dropped it hard, replaced it. Second one had an completely crapped out back button. Third one had that weird can't make a portable wifi hotspot problem. It would almost never turn on and the speaker sounded blown out. Fourth one was all busted.. it had the hotspot problem and the screen was popping up. Plus it got unusually hot. My other ones never got that warm. On the fifth one, the live wallpapers slow the home screen scrolling and app drawer so much I don't use them but the rest of the phone works flawlessly, including the compass. The other phones were never affected by the live wallpapers. Am I a little bummed that a $550 device isn't perfect, ya. Especially if your obsessive like I am, but at this point I've learned that no NS is perfect (in my experience anyway). Even after all that stuff i went through (which might be an extreme case) I still love this phone and I'll have it until the next nexus comes out. I just hope I don't drop this one Holy crap this is a long post...
Mine had issues back on 2.3.2 and CM7 RC1. Flashed RC2 and it wasn't jerky anymore. Not really sure why.
I had my device repaired by Samsung service recently, just got it back 2 weeks ago. I'm not 100% sure it is still the same device, only with a new screen, or a replacement (although the S/N and IMEI are the same as before). However, since I got it back I also noticed this compass weirdness. I definitely didn't have these issues before. But then I also didn't have 2.3.3 before. There is also a thread in Google's forums where people complain and some think it started with 2.3.3 (I'm not yet permitted to post the link here though).
I just hope this is a software problem and will be fixed in an update. In the current state Maps is basically unusable for me, the little blue needle always points in the wrong direction and even directly after calibrating the compass (which seems to last about 5min max) the direction is always off by some 10-15 degrees and also reacts very jerkily to any movement. My HTC Desire never had such problems.
please report this bug at here:
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=37f2dd3261d20d1f&hl=en
and add a star if you have this issue as well here:
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=15999
check my issue video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-9lehX8u2U
Google please fix this!!!
I have the following weird phenomenon.
Nexus S users, please confirm you have this problem too.
This problem does not manifest itself on a Nexus One.
I have both Nexii.
Open Google Sky Map.
Move the phone around as much as you can in all directions and orientations.
Select Back or Home.
Open Gallery.
Tilt the phone from portrait to landscape
Do you lose the orientation function?
Infact, I lose orientation function across all apps after that. It is as if the phone is "locked" into a certain orientation or loses the function altogether.
This problem corrects itself after a reboot.
More info: Gingerbread 2.3.2 with LauncherPro
Update: If you change the sensors Speed and Damping to HIGH for both, the problem goes away...
I don't think it uses the gyroscope.
I guess it just uses the Compass to find out which direction your pointing, and the accelerometer to measure up and down
i think the problem is most apps aren't built for gingerbread features. and gingerbread has gyroscope support built in. when an app developer asks - basically - for the direction, android will either use 2 or 3 (compass, accellerometer and gyroscope - the gyroscope adds the smoothness) sensors depending on what api lever (android version) the app is built for.
so, make sure the app is built for 2.3? just throwing it out there. this would explain why google earth (that is shipped on the device) is incredibly nice and smooth (compared to earth on a desire). and, would explain why apps downloaded on the market are jerky too probably.
I couldn't find it anywhere in here, and when I searched for "Compass" the only place I found it being mentioned outside of specsheet posts was when the Clove guy asked what we would like to know about it and I said "compass performance." Ha.
Anyway, can anyone tell me how the compass apps are getting along? I've resigned to the fact it'll never be as good as the iPhone's compass (although maybe that's just my subconscious trying to set myself up for a pleasant surprise), but I would like decent compass performance this time around. (for comparison sake, if you have a chance, check out the iPhone's compass. It's silky smooth and accurate, whereas the SGS' compass left me to wonder if I was in my own house or someone else's across the street).
I'm not trying to be snide but my iPhone 3GS compass never really worked properly. It always said there was interference and asked me to wave my hand around in a figure 8, yet no matter how much of a douche I made myself look like waving it around it never righted itself. Faulty model I know. I should have got a replacement. But still, not all of them worked well....
....I get my SGS2 tomorrow so hopefully it ACTUALLY works unlike that in my iPhone...
Please keep me posted if you will!
I did not get to try the 3GS' compass, but my wife has an iPhone4 and it is spot on. Doesn't jerk around or nothing, it snaps to the right position right away. The SGS' performance is pathetic in comparison. If I spin it around, it takes over a second to actually move, and even then, it never settles anywhere, no matter how still I hold it. Fingers crossed!
I'd give it an 8/10. It's pretty accurate in general, but moving it very fast sometimes seems to cause it confusion. Seems to be slightly off by a couple degrees when pointing directly south as well. It's about as good as any compass I've seen in a phone though, and way better than in the SGS1.
Bernardos70 said:
I couldn't find it anywhere in here, and when I searched for "Compass" the only place I found it being mentioned outside of specsheet posts was when the Clove guy asked what we would like to know about it and I said "compass performance." Ha.
Anyway, can anyone tell me how the compass apps are getting along? I've resigned to the fact it'll never be as good as the iPhone's compass (although maybe that's just my subconscious trying to set myself up for a pleasant surprise), but I would like decent compass performance this time around. (for comparison sake, if you have a chance, check out the iPhone's compass. It's silky smooth and accurate, whereas the SGS' compass left me to wonder if I was in my own house or someone else's across the street).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you mean compass or GPS? I've never had compass issues on any Android device, but I don't see how a compass tells you which house you are in, unless you also have a location...
That was sort of a joke, sorry about that. No, I mean compass, if you download compass from the market and run that... I've tried quite a few compasses, and none of them are accurate, and most are only borderline usable. The G1's (HTC Dream worldwide, I think) compass was better, for comparison. And the iPhone4's is perfect.
Bernardos70 said:
That was sort of a joke, sorry about that. No, I mean compass, if you download compass from the market and run that... I've tried quite a few compasses, and none of them are accurate, and most are only borderline usable. The G1's (HTC Dream worldwide, I think) compass was better, for comparison. And the iPhone4's is perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK thought we might have been getting mixed up between the original SGS's well-publicised GPS issues...
Yeah, don't get me started on the GPS. Needless to say I'm keeping an eye on the GPS accuracy thread.
RyanZA said:
I'd give it an 8/10. It's pretty accurate in general, but moving it very fast sometimes seems to cause it confusion. Seems to be slightly off by a couple degrees when pointing directly south as well. It's about as good as any compass I've seen in a phone though, and way better than in the SGS1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. Decent is good enough. BTW, I used your Z4mod for a long time on my Vibrant!
Just spent several days in the wilderness with the 6p, only to discover that the compass looses calibration when you as much as look at it the wrong way. And I am not talking subtle here. At one point the phone had literally reversed North and South, and no amount of recal would fix that. This was in the middle of the AZ desert on a day with crystal clear blue skies. What gives? And why does the compass on any Android phone suck so baldy in comparison to the iPhone. I have never seen the compass on my wife's iPhone get confused. Mine tends to point every which way over the last 4-5 Android phones I have owned.
EDIT: just spent a few more hours figuring it out. Hwawei is, as usual, of absolutely no help. When I called them they asked me to flush the cache and when that did not fix anything they said to call Google. This is pretty much the last Hwawei phone I will buy. In order to make sure I did not do something weird to the phone to cause the compass to misbehave I returned back to stock (yes, this bugs me this much) and sure enough nothing change. My wife's iPhone and my Nexus 6P side by side give a heading that differs by 45 degrees (the iPhone is correct). Furthermore the iPhone heading is properly damped and butter smooth, while the Android one is choppy and looks like crap with three separate apps. Anyone have any suggestions? Fixing this is a must-have for me. There are a couple of photography related apps that are essential to me and use the orientation sensors to superimpose the trajectory of the sun, moon, and milky way on the camera image. If I can't get these to work correctly the phone is getting sold.
EDIT 2: turns out that not all compass apps are created equal, especially when it comes to compass re calibration. Compass by RHB seems to do wonders for me (and others). The app name is generic and a PITA to find on the Play Store, if you look for "Compass calibration" it should be one of the top hits. Thanks to whoever at XDA pointed me that way, I found this on a Google search of XDA.