Database Users

Pact To Respect All Users Right To Learn

I have been quite dismayed with the predominate attitude, taken on lately by many senior members, that it is okay to treat people as lesser individuals, simply because their computer skills are lacking. Knowledge needs to be shared, and is detrimental to society as a whole when individuals feel afraid to learn. Additionally, the ever growing flame wars between senior members is not beneficial to anyone.
Many of have been treated horribly in the past by others, and it becomes all to easy to lash out from behind a computer at someone, using a faceless individual to represent those whom have hurt you. The truth is, we all have pain, we all have been belittled by others, and by continuing this behavior in a forum only hurts us all.
Though I know I will most likely be flamed for this, I want to make a post, asking senior members to agree to a pact stating:
1. I will be as patient as possible with each individual, and respect the fact that what me seem easy to me, can be difficult to others.
2. I will restrain from flaming others in the forum. If an individual attempts to start something with me, I pledge to be the bigger person, and ignore the comments.
3. If I so choose to help someone, I pledge to do it in a constructive, non-demeaning manner.
I recognize that this is symbolic only, and is not something that can, or was intended to be enforced. I feel that it is a strong thing for this community to have a core group of senior member that refuse to play into this hurtful, non-constructive behavior. Please join me in agreeing to this. Thank You.

I'll only agree if the posters SEARCH first, if a question has been answered 4 times that day, I'm going to be mean.
And do NOT post questions in development, that is my BIGGEST issue.

Agreed, Although only as a Member who has all but given up in asking for help around here. Its Great being part of a Community, But less so when the community almost turns on you because of your knowledge level.
I'm Fairly tech Savvy, but when I dont understand Something, I prefer to ask in the hope of some help, Athough at the moment I dont feel Inclined to as the pompous, Eliteists run riot around here for the time being, Pissing on anyone who dare ask a question.
Some people need to remember, Its only an easy answer if YOU know it, Not everyone does.

JAguirre1231 said:
I only sign if the posters SEARCH first, if a question has been answered 4 times that day, I'm going to be mean.
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It is nothing to sign. My point is that it is better to not say anything, then to be mean. I am not here to change your opinion, and I respect the work you do on here, but just feel that everyone needs to be nicer to one another.

killyouridols said:
Agreed, Although only as a Member who has all but given up in asking for help around here. Its Great being part of a Community, But less so when the community almost turns on you because of your knowledge level.
I'm Fairly tech Savvy, but when I dont understand Something, I prefer to ask in the hope of some help, Athough at the moment I dont feel Inclined to as the pompous, Eliteists run riot around here for the time being, Pissing on anyone who dare ask a question.
Some people need to remember, Its only an easy answer if YOU know it, Not everyone does.
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Having taught math at the University of Oregon for the past six years, I have learned that such an elitist attitude towards learning hurts everyone. I am a probabilistic researcher, and could make anyone on this forum feel incompetent with a few "simple" questions. We all have strengths and weaknesses, and touting yours above others, can never serve a beneficial purpose.

cloverdale said:
Having taught math at the University of Oregon for the past six years, I have learned that such an elitist attitude towards learning hurts everyone. I am a probabilistic researcher, and could make anyone on this forum feel incompetent with a few "simple" questions. We all have strengths and weaknesses, and touting yours above others, can never serve a beneficial purpose.
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At the Moment, it all feels like the Community is seperating almost, the exact opposite of what we (possibly) want to achive, all through total intollerance of other peoples knowledge threshold.
It feels like, for want of a half arsed comparison, a mechanic laughing at you because you couldn't fix your own engine. I have an Android Phone, am I expected to know how it works under the Bonnet Inside/Out, and if I asked a question to a Mechanic (XDA-User) would I expect to be made a mockery of, because I didnt have their level of Knowledge?

killyouridols said:
At the Moment, it all feels like the Community is seperating almost, the exact opposite of what we (possibly) want to achive, all through total intollerance of other peoples knowledge threshold.
It feels like, for want of a half arsed comparison, a mechanic laughing at you because you couldn't fix your own engine. I have an Android Phone, am I expected to know how it works under the Bonnet Inside/Out, and if I asked a question to a Mechanic (XDA-User) would I expect to be made a mockery of, because I didnt have their level of Knowledge?
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That is a good way to put it.

killyouridols said:
At the Moment, it all feels like the Community is seperating almost, the exact opposite of what we (possibly) want to achive, all through total intollerance of other peoples knowledge threshold.
It feels like, for want of a half arsed comparison, a mechanic laughing at you because you couldn't fix your own engine. I have an Android Phone, am I expected to know how it works under the Bonnet Inside/Out, and if I asked a question to a Mechanic (XDA-User) would I expect to be made a mockery of, because I didnt have their level of Knowledge?
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Click to collapse
It is separating, and not necessarily for the best. I understand people don't have the same amount of knowledge, but most of this knowledge is readily available for those willing to spend the time to look for it.
Nobody on these forums started out as the Android gods, we all started out with the same amount of knowledge on Android. However we found out one thing and another thing, and so on, until we could piece the information together.
We're not asking for people to know everything, just enough to where somebody doesn't have to hold their hand through the entire process (i.e. If I give you some commands, you should know a where to input them [or at least have a general idea])
We're not asking for the world, just some common sense.
Anyways, good comparison

JAguirre1231 said:
It is separating, and not necessarily for the best. I understand people don't have the same amount of knowledge, but most of this knowledge is readily available for those willing to spend the time to look for it.
Nobody on these forums started out as the Android gods, we all started out with the same amount of knowledge on Android. However we found out one thing and another thing, and so on, until we could piece the information together.
We're not asking for people to know everything, just enough to where somebody doesn't have to hold their hand through the entire process (i.e. If I give you some commands, you should know a where to input them [or at least have a general idea])
We're not asking for the world, just some common sense.
Anyways, good comparison
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Very well put.

JAguirre1231 said:
It is separating, and not necessarily for the best. I understand people don't have the same amount of knowledge, but most of this knowledge is readily available for those willing to spend the time to look for it.
Nobody on these forums started out as the Android gods, we all started out with the same amount of knowledge on Android. However we found out one thing and another thing, and so on, until we could piece the information together.
We're not asking for people to know everything, just enough to where somebody doesn't have to hold their hand through the entire process (i.e. If I give you some commands, you should know a where to input them [or at least have a general idea])
We're not asking for the world, just some common sense.
Anyways, good comparison
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Click to collapse
Correct. I, Along with a lot of others, dont WANT to be Spoon-Fed infomation, I'm one of those who like to study things and work it out myself if I can IMO the best way to gain Knowledge.
Many (Including yourself JAguirre) are very helpful, and no, no one needs to be GIVEN the infomation all the time, but when some are looking for a nudge in the right direction, all they are getting is a shove the other way.

What I can't stand is when others have to be polite jerks when asked for their personal opinion on a subject.
So I am all for this thread.
Coming from MMUS.US to this treatment, well I'm disappointed to see how immature this larger forum is...

I will help anyone I can provided they have posted in the right place.
I have never seen anyone on these forums getting flamed for asking a sensible question, most those that are is down to a sheer laziness displayed by a good few who can't spend five minutes reading the rules or doing a quick search.
As far as I'm concerned if that's there attitude then they deserve everything they get.
Harsh I. Know but that's just my opinion, I have run a fair few forums and getting tough is sometimes the only thing that gets through to them, being all nicely nicely you might as well throw the doors open and rename the place the nut house!

shadowch31 said:
I will help anyone I can provided they have posted in the right place.
I have never seen anyone on these forums getting flamed for asking a sensible question most those that are is down to a sheer laziness displayed by a good few who can't spend five minutes reading the rules.
As far as I'm concerned if that's there attitude then they deserve everything they get.
Harsh I. Know but that's just my opinion, I have run a fair few forums and getting tough is sometimes the only thing that gets through to them, being all nicely nicely you might as well throw the doors open and rename the place the nut house!
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I feel you on "that is what they deserve", but my point is that we can all be bigger than that and choose a better way in which to express our disapproval.

cloverdale said:
I feel you on "that is what they deserve", but my point is that we can all be bigger than that and choose a better way in which to express our disapproval.
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To be honest no matter how you word things someone somewhere will decide to take offence. I truly believe the best policy would be a standardized reply to them something along the lines of...
This post is in an inappropriate place. Please spend five minutes reading the forum rules stickied at the top of this forum and please contact a mod to move this to the appropriate place. Thank you.
Once seen in a thread that should then be left alone by other members until such time it is moved. That way stopping the crap that can go on and will admit to being involved with myself sometimes.

h
shadowch31 said:
To be honest no matter how you word things someone somewhere will decide to take offence. I truly believe the best policy would be a standardized reply to them something along the lines of...
This post is in an inappropriate place. Please spend five minutes reading the forum rules stickied at the top of this forum and please contact a mod to move this to the appropriate place. Thank you.
Once seen in a thread that should then be left alone by other members until such time it is moved. That way stopping the crap that can go on and will admit to being involved with myself sometimes.
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This is the right direction in which we should be moving. I am not going to let people walk all over me, but at the same time it is not okay to use the forum as a way to express anger (which we all have too much of).

I have been using this site for almost three long years. I rarely post but I do feel there is a change in the way things feel on here. I have modded and maxed out five devices of my own and could not even count what I have ,in one way or another, passed on to people where I work. I agree that people should at least put out some kind of effort to find an answer on their own. However, the search option ,for most people, just leads to information overload. Most of the posts are in a language that 99% of the newer members cannot understand. This site started out as a place for people to share what they have learned. It feels more like and exclusive club everyday now. Please people, do the world a favor. Be patient, listen, and help a newb. We were not born XDA addicts. We became them. Someone helped you once, so be kind and help others. At least be respectfull. Common human decency goes a long way. Help a fellow out. The world needs more teachers. And that folks is my rant...........

I have no problem respecting people who deserve it. If someone takes the time to read the stickies, post in the right place and search (even a little), they're fine in my book. But when theres already 6 open threads in one week in any particular forum on the same subject, and you open up a seventh, that doesnt deserve respect.
Dont get me wrong, it doesnt deserve noobish disrespect either, but I'm not going to be inclined to help that person. Perhaps thats what we all ought to do: instead of slamming people for asking the same questions over and over, we just ignore them.

Here's my pact: http://bit.ly/14d7yE

jubeh said:
Here's my pact: http://bit.ly/14d7yE
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I was wondering how long before you shared your ideas :b

no one deserves respect if they fail to respect others
they should have 1 strike each time they go against rules including cursing or discrimination.

Why close a discussion thread?

mikechannon said:
"In general "I hate my phone" threads neither contribute soluactions to problems nor do they seek answers to problems in a calm and reasoned way.
These forums are for the giving and receiving of information that assists users to get the best from their device - it is not a vehicle for "sounding-off" about your phone.
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
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Ok .... so, the fact that we know HTC pay attention to people gripes, comments and compliments on these forums.... if that had been a "we love HTC thread" would that have been closed?
I agree being rude and obnoxious are very good reasons but ... why not censor the very few posts related to it. Why close the general dissastifaction with what appears to be a typical HTC release. Without a place to talk about the general failure of HTC, how can the majority of people learn? How can those prospective customers be aware of the challenges they need to overcome to turn a rubbish device (out of the factory) into a great device (after XDA and chefs)?
mikechannon said:
(In addition - this thread has been reported by Members)
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And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
The one thing i've always used in years is the xda forums and some of that i haven't even owned a HTC device. Like it or not, most people here have invested a lot of hard earned cash (or will over the next 18/24 months) and that will naturaly attract an emotional value - hence some anger when something like this doesn't work. The fact there was so much feeling in that thread should indicate the level of "emotion" about it and the incensed feeling they have about the amount people feel they have spent, money and time, on a device they are so unhappy about. Maybe if you guys created a "vent here thread" you might get to allow people to rant AND get usefull threads - heck, even HTC might read the "vent here thread!" and take note?
I'm so worried after reading todays threads in particular, about ordering mine earlier today but sadly nothing else that supports FULL exchange meets my requirements. I know my consumer rights and will use them to the full should I need to but I hope not it does have so many great points.

Monty Burns said:
Ok .... so, the fact that we know HTC pay attention to people gripes, comments and compliments on these forums....
We don't know that for sure. There are many on here who would disagree, saying that for them, if HTC were listening, then perceived problems would have been resolved quicker.
I agree being rude and obnoxious are very good reasons but ... why not censor the very few posts related to it. Why close the general dissatisfaction with what appears to be a typical HTC release. Without a place to talk about the general failure of HTC, how can the majority of people learn? How can those prospective customers be aware of the challenges they need to overcome to turn a rubbish device (out of the factory) into a great device (after XDA and chefs)?
Problem with this argument is that there are some on here who don't wish to face those challenges, which is fair enough. However what they do is to gripe about it and not help themselves, even when you point them in the right direction.
And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
Not sure where you get that from. Please provide evidence of this or retract.
The one thing i've always used in years is the xda forums and some of that i haven't even owned a HTC device. Like it or not, most people here have invested a lot of hard earned cash (or will over the next 18/24 months) and that will naturally attract an emotional value - hence some anger when something like this doesn't work. The fact there was so much feeling in that thread should indicate the level of "emotion" about it and the incensed feeling they have about the amount people feel they have spent, money and time, on a device they are so unhappy about. Maybe if you guys created a "vent here thread" you might get to allow people to rant AND get useful threads - heck, even HTC might read the "vent here thread!" and take note?
Any "ranting", as you put it, should be made direct to HTC. XDA-Developers is exactly that; a developers site with a lot of interested non-developers in it. Its not the place to take out your frustrations against a manufacturer.
Re your point on hard earned cash being spent, I can't disagree with this. However ask these people how many of them went out and gave the device a really good test drive and an assessment of whether it would meet their needs or not and you will be silenced by the response.
I'm so worried after reading todays threads in particular, about ordering mine earlier today but sadly nothing else that supports FULL exchange meets my requirements. I know my consumer rights and will use them to the full should I need to but I hope not it does have so many great points.
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If you have doubts about this device then don't buy it. You will be severely disappointed. If you have not taken time out to test drive one before putting your order in then, with respect, more fool you.
Finally, moderators on here bend over backwards NOT to close threads or be seen as censoring debate. However we have to keep a balance and if, in our judgment, a thread is getting out of hand or no longer has any value nor serve any useful purpose then it will be closed.
All the best,
WB

as you've quoted inside of quotes you have made it really dificult for me to "quote" back - nice job! (although i suspect not deliberate).
"We don't know that for sure. There are many on here who would disagree, saying that for them, if HTC were listening, then perceived problems would have been resolved quicker."
Yeah ok. So the very big majority of Winmob market phones are produced by HTC, this site is dedicated to HTC (and historicaly Winmob).... do you REALLY think they don't read these forums? Really? Honestly? Are you sure?
"Problem with this argument is that there are some on here who don't wish to face those challenges, which is fair enough. However what they do is to gripe about it and not help themselves, even when you point them in the right direction."
I agree. There are SOME who want to gripe. There are a ship load more who want to make a device work but can't, no matter the support they get from the community - random users suffering from the SMS bug for example? The very fact most of these people have googled/have knowledge of these forums, means that they have at least gone to some effort to resolve an issue. So yes some, but a VERY small number. So, how can they air the frustrations they have? where? Maybe the most expansive and read HTC forums... thats a good place to start!
"And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
Not sure where you get that from. Please provide evidence of this or retract."
*sigh* .... ok .... i'll come back to this but, i did quote, if you really want me to link to a thread closed in the past 10 minutes other than i already quoted your mod. I will.
"Any "ranting", as you put it, should be made direct to HTC. XDA-Developers is exactly that; a developers site with a lot of interested non-developers in it. Its not the place to take out your frustrations against a manufacturer."
Yeah ya know, it was a developers site years ago.... its not any more and hasn't been for a long time. Its a cookers and users site now. If you still think HTC don't read this forum then .... The sites success over the years can also be its greatest strength if you let it.
Now this isn't a problem of the site itself, more one with many reviews and fanboys of ALL phones, Iphone, HTC, Nokia....
"Re your point on hard earned cash being spent, I can't disagree with this. However ask these people how many of them went out and gave the device a really good test drive and an assessment of whether it would meet their needs or not and you will be silenced by the response."
Trying out a phone is a shop is a VERY diferent affair to OWNING one. Any person will know that, sadly though, many of us have to go by the reviews and forum comments that are available and try to filter out what may or may not be fanboy. Magazines, forum posts, personal reviews, blogs are all individual and very personal. Saying that someone should have reviewed more is simply not fair. Its impossible. Try asking your local O2 shop if you can take a phone away for a couple of weeks to try?
Hold on .... yes you can!!!! And that was the point of the last thread that got closed! Your fellow mod closed a thread which wasn't actually personal to anyone and (from a personal fed up with moaners point of view) I was trying educate people who purchased there phones in the UK that they had a bucket load of rights. If they are not happy, and it was purchased from the uk, then please "turn it in!" and return it.
Now from my pov, i'm a londoner (can you tell?) but i work all over the world. Currently im in Durban (yeah I was there at the test match! and met the England team) but out here they dont have the HD 2 so, I have to go on the reviews etc. Some people out here will spend near on £600 getting it imported from Expansys UK (ummm .... co.za) and other sites.
also..
Can i provide evidence? No. It was not made public so all I can assume is that if I PM a mod, things will be closed:
mikechannon said:
"In general "I hate my phone" threads neither contribute soluactions to problems nor do they seek answers to problems in a calm and reasoned way.
These forums are for the giving and receiving of information that assists users to get the best from their device - it is not a vehicle for "sounding-off" about your phone.
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
(In addition - this thread has been reported by Members)
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Click to collapse
How can i provide more evidence than that? I'm not privvy to your private messages. The previous line though backs up my "love HTC or go away" argument to a small extent:
mikechannon said:
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
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I really think you guys, having helped, actually almost pushed HTC to where they are should now use your position and be .... responsible(? maybe a bit strong)) ... finaly get off the HTC only band wagon. Let them know that the stunning products they produce will no longer be accepted only 90% complete.
Ok. Lets be realistic. I ain't gona change your minds on anything and I don't want you to rebel against HTC as they make amazing hardware but, at least, in the position you have got.... maybe create a "if your gone B*&% and let off steam, do it in this thread?" thread? Maybe, just maybe there will be a common thread in it that HTC will finaly get to grips with .....?
Oh, and i've had a tytn, tytn 2 and having had both of those replaced under warranty i thought... no! Poke it! And had a tosh g900 when most people couldnt even spell 800 res screens and then foolishly went to a TD. That was refunded quickly under sales of goods act. Have an Acer M900 but due to the fact i'm living in south africa and i purchased that under my company contract, i now need to replace next week when im back in the UK. I was looking at a Milestone but the exchange support is rubbish at best. So, I have a week to try the HD2 or return it as not fit for purpose.... I do however, really want it to work!
And one final word.... my best winmob device without a device? Well two actually .... the Samsung Omnia and the baggage reconciliation devices i'm working with at the new Durban airport (what??? its not just a PHONE O/S!!!!??)

My opinion.
Here's an example of 2 threads.
MY HD2 IS THE WORST FONE ON THE PLANIT
I bought this fone for £x000 dollars and it should do everything I can ever imagine, rite out of the out of the box. I am disgusted that HTC expect ME to fix their problems.
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SMS didn't send
Hi everyone.
I tried to send a text message to my friends earlier and it's stuck in my outbox. Does anyone know why this might be? Does anyone have a suggestion as to what I should do about it?
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This forum is not about defending or slating any particular device. It is meant for users to get together and talk about ways to make the experience better. This forum is not responsible for the fact that some hardware that comes out of some factory and gets some software installed on it is not 100% perfect!
Now for 1 moment, can we please put aside arguments regarding the device and talk about the forum? Which of the above 2 threads is the most constructive?
Thank you.

johncmolyneux said:
Here's an example of 2 threads.
This forum is not about defending or slating any particular device. It is meant for users to get together and talk about ways to make the experience better. This forum is not responsible for the fact that some hardware that comes out of some factory and gets some software installed on it is not 100% perfect!
Now for 1 moment, can we please put aside arguments regarding the device and talk about the forum? Which of the above 2 threads is the most constructive?
Thank you.
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More to the point, what is the point of leaving the first example open? At the very least there should be a dedicated section for those unhelpful posts (as [★] suggested yesterday) but I think they should just be closed as they're so worthless.

Do you work for a newspaper?
Both comments are usefull. Just because you don't see the use in both doesn't mean they are not usefull. Does that mean 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms so they should be ignored of Fred Smiths Condom appreciation website?
(sorry thats a really poor example but its 2am here in SA and i've been on the beer and Eve-online and films for a few hours )
Very fair play to you for putting forward an argument (non abusive as I would hope) and maybe catch up tomorrow.

Monty,
You are a Londoner eh? I should have known. You lot are nothing but trouble makers!
First off sorry about the quotes within quotes; didn't realise it stopped you from quoting back. Now that I do...
OK, lots in your post that I could come back on in detail but I won't because I'm the sort of chap that likes going forwards, not looking back in self pity or whatever.
The one thing that you have suggested, and you are not the first, is that we think on somewhere where people can let off steam WITHOUT cluttering up the forums. As you know there is some work going on as to how best we can restructure the place to make it better. Can I ask you to be a little patient while all this gets worked through.
In the meantime, think on the following:
- Help us to support people who need and want help and please be robust about those that don't but just fancy a moan and upsetting people on here without ever really wanting to seek help or to help themselves (the word Troll comes to mind).
- If you look at the Development & Hacking forums you will see that Development is stronger than ever and does not change what this place is all about. The work of the chefs is recognised and appreciated, and you can argue that is also development so 2-0 there.
- Lets all try to be a little adult, constructive and get along a little. I can tell you that, from a Mods perspective, we really want to be doing other things to make people's lives on here better rather than spending time closing threads down because people just can't have a little respect for each other. I often wonder whether anyone ever reads the forum rules.
Finally thank you for keeping on the straight and narrow re this thread and not going off the rails and getting it closed.
WB

jakem said:
More to the point, what is the point of leaving the first example open? At the very least there should be a dedicated section for those unhelpful posts (as [★] suggested yesterday) but I think they should just be closed as they're so worthless.
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I totally agree mate (hence the support in said thread raised by [★] yesterday.)
I find this site a ridiculously valuable source of information when I need help with my phone, and I find it disheartening to have to wade through complaint after complaint just in order to get to constructive discussions.
If I wanted to live in troll city, I'd pack all my stuff into boxes; call a removals company; do some browsing of estate agents and property letting agents; check the reputation of the areas I was interested in and then guess what.... MOVE TO TROLL CITY!
I'm a placid guy generally, but some posts really make me struggle to just not tell the OP where to go.
+9999999 recurring to real constructive users of this site.
-9999999 recurring to trolls (and we know you don't think you're a troll, but you are.)

Monty Burns said:
Do you work for a newspaper?
Both comments are usefull. Just because you don't see the use in both doesn't mean they are not usefull. Does that mean 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms so they should be ignored of Fred Smiths Condom appreciation website?
(sorry thats a really poor example but its 2am here in SA and i've been on the beer and Eve-online and films for a few hours )
Very fair play to you for putting forward an argument (non abusive as I would hope) and maybe catch up tomorrow.
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If 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms then they should definitely speak their mind. They would be wrong though to go to a forum that supports uses of brand x condoms and slate them. A support forum is for support.

OK first, no idea who Martin is. (Its Monty spelt the wrong way - doh)
Second, guys sounds like we might have a good conversation on the values of "to HTC or not HTC" although I might be on the wrong side, despite just spending a bucket load of fivers on a HT2.
Please, keep it clean and (well funny if you can't) but not personaly insulting. Everyone on a keyboard is a human being!
Be safe, have fun!

Monty Burns said:
OK first, no idea who Martin is.
Second, guys sounds like we might have a good conversation on the values of "to HTC or not HTC" although I might be on the wrong side, despite just spending a bucket load of fivers on a HT2.
Please, keep it clean and (well funny if you can't) but not personaly insulting. Everyone on a keyboard is a human being!
Be safe, have fun!
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I agree with that totally, but I do think this thread should be moved to a general area. Let's face it, it's hardly HD2 specific now is it!
It would be nice to see everyone's thoughts on this, rather than just the ones with The God Phone. (Just kidding - that was meant to incite trouble )

To be fair, those "I hate this phone" ranting type threads really do spiral into a hate fest or at least the few I've seen. If a topic is interesting and you comment on it, and go back later to see how it develops when all that is left is just insults, it has no use to most if not all.

johncmolyneux said:
I agree with that totally, but I do think this thread should be moved to a general area. Let's face it, it's hardly HD2 specific now is it!
It would be nice to see everyone's thoughts on this, rather than just the ones with The God Phone. (Just kidding - that was meant to incite trouble )
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Click to collapse
Argh! I'm not a god!!! (although I think I am, with my size 9 shoes... bow down before me!)
Seriously, maybe a good idea. I guess in an odd way this may complement (orb3000s?) the other thread vote about should it be HTC or not site? We don't know you server statistics of course but, we can hope that we can get to the stage where we can give our opinion on HTC honestly..... ( i wanted to deleted that and not type it as its not fair, i think we can, mostly ).
In my view its like a really cool manopoly. The games fun to play for almost all of us (i may/may not include myself in that after 2 years HTC abscense on next Friday) but for some it really sucks cos they keep losing.
I would think that moving it to an adult discussion of the real benefits as us users see if you become "open" but, we have no idea of the server costs... only you guys do.
(you do of course know that pressure will mount and mount and mount with regards to non-HTC phones. Your not silly Samsung, LG, Acer.... to name but a few know that the serious money is in smart phones in the next few years, not feature. In Slough o2 test 150-200 meg 4g phones a couple of weeks ago )

From what I understand, this is a developers forum. i.e. look to the potential rather than to the faults as is.
There are far too many distracting threads along the lines of "the virtual keyboard is killing me", "my wife left me because of the battery life", "the pink camera issue made me kill my neighbour". These type of threads may have valid points but they are all a bit melodramatic and really don't serve the purpose of the forum very well as they fan the flames of discontent rather that rise to the can-fix mindset. Despite what the trolls (for want of a better word) might like to say, this isn't a fanboi site, it's for those who realise a problem and want to solve it, simply just improve things, or just want to tweak things just because they can! I'm sure most of us here are all too aware of the shortcomings of Windows mobile software, just as we recognise the potential & strengths of this platform.
Speaking as a self-confessed technophile I will admit to spending an not inconsiderable amount of hard-earned money on utter crap i.e. gadgets that promised so much, yet delivered so little or were simply just badly executed. The HD2 is non of these, it's a stunning piece of design & engineering. It's not perfect, for example: the sharp edges of the camera lens annoy me a little, but it doesn't induce a desire in me to vent my spleen to the world.
I'm optimistic, I hope to survive longer than my HD2 and maybe via this forum HTC will hear my concern for this non-life threatening design flaw and engineer a more ergonomic lens cover for the next mobile phone I get. If they don't, it will undoubtedly leave a microscopic void in my life, but I'm strong enough to move on and no doubt the HTC designers will burn in hell for their tardiness.
xda-developers is what is says and is a great community that helps us get the best from these intriguing phones, so please diss the efforts of those who contribute and recognise that enthusiasm is a far better fertilizer for technology than manure.
Besides that, looking at my HD2 I've just noticed that it's going to be wet & windy at "My Location" tomorrow. That's fifty miles away and I'm not even going there, so it's a win for me!

Really?

Ok first I'm posting this in every forum so that everyone sees it because I personally think its important for the future of this forum.
Seriously people just because you have anonymity behind your user name doesn't give you the right to be rude. Stop jumping on a post and yelling at the poster, if the moderators have a problem they will move the post you are not the police and all you are doing in potentially scaring off help!!! Which correct me if I'm wrong a development, q/a, etc forum is DEPENDENT on.
I for one have been taken aback and offended by some of the blatant rudeness on these forums.
We never know who is new or who is posting something. What if a HTC dev was posting a question with the intent to leak info to us and you blasted him like many of you have because he posted the wrong thing in the wrong place? Do you think he would want to help after that? Or what if someone who was posting a question also happened to be at HTC legal or Sprint and got pissed enough to force all our nice developers to stop using anything HTC with a cease order (which they can legally do whenever they want) all because of some rude poster.
Please people be responsible and think before you speak the world and this forum will be better for it.

LOL, but I see what your saying. But it did get funny at the end. But uh, yeah, easier to just ignore, or politely direct someone. And nothing is more worthless than 50 people saying the same thing blasting someone like the other 49 people weren't. Pages of wasted page space. But hey, that's the internet for ya.

I always find this logic hilarious. There are only a handful of moderators and they have their own lives to deal with. A good community polices itself and rarely needs an external entity to step in. And since when is telling people to to post in the correct forum "yelling" at them? Am I yelling at you right now because I disagree with you? Do you think everyone who disagrees with you is yelling at you?
It is ironic that you are complaining about this chasing away people. In my experience, every valuable tech forum has either strong moderation or a strong self policing community. The useless ones are the ones where no one cares and the signal to noise ratio is nil. Junk posts and idiots chase away the valuable people, not because they are fragile little snowflakes like you seem to think, but because they don't like their time to be wasted.
Oh, and this doesn't belong in this forum. It belongs in Off Topic and needs a descriptive title.

Did you try search? This has been posted before.
Just kidding. It is annoying. I just imagine them as being a bunch of nerdy kids who jump at the chance to tell someone to use search or wrong forum with nothing else to contribute to the community.
They remind me of the hall monitors in grade school.

Yes and No
The problem with your theory is the same that happened in the old west, no consolidated power = abuse. If everyone is a "cop" then so are the brats and jerks. Your well thought out answer is not yelling, but the rude blasts from people like drumdude are.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=740261
Do you believe that someone who is acting like that is acceptable in this forum?
And I'm not talking about the 70th time a post asking the same question goes up, but why not teach someone how to search, or even giving them a link to the information they need? You assume that the poster is a techie and should know forum edicate, yet we all had to learn at some time and when I did years ago people were kind enough to teach without pushing.
And at the same time when it came time for me to root, there were way to many posts full of non-information. While I knew what I was doing someone that didn't would have easily been overwhelmed. I'm a tech guy who is getting his Masters in Community Counseling and the overwhelming negativity from the internet is a major area of concern for us, as it is not producing positive results for "in real life" interactions. We need more cooperation if this nation is to stay competitive not a bunch of individuals who learned their people skills in these environments. Yes I'm bring to the front personal responsibilities to teach when you can, help whenever possible etc. Deal with it

Toast has enough to deal with. Have you seen how many posts get moved?
I wish that they would use the ban hammer here like they did in the WinMo forums... People would learn fast.

EtherealRemnant said:
Toast has enough to deal with. Have you seen how many posts get moved?
I wish that they would use the ban hammer here like they did in the WinMo forums... People would learn fast.
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Click to collapse
Nah, that's not the way.

Hibbidy hoo blah snip blam flibble snaps! Mean people sux

realKURE said:
Hibbidy hoo blah snip blam flibble snaps! Mean people sux
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Couldn't have said it better.LOL. I agree with the OP. Posting "use search" or "wrong forum" is completely pointless. I will admit it gets a bit irritating when you see a thread asking a question when the answer to it is two threads up, but I'm not gonna get all fired up about it. Most of the trolls here are cluttering up the forum as much as the people they're flaming. Hypocrites are ANNOYING! Make positive or constructive posts or don't post at all.
Sent from my DCEVO using XDA app

Another rant thread, I totally agree with you, but just as noobs wont ever use search, people wont ever stop trollin so I suggest get used to it because its inevitable. No use fighting just dont be that person.

WTF is up with the pissing matches

What the hell is up with all the fighting going on in this forum. A lot of people seem to ***** and moan about every little detail. It seems that whenever i go in to the popular threads like. Eugene's, or the lag fix, etc. and hit the last page, there is a lot of arguing going on. Can't we just be patient and content with what we are offered by the awesome work of the dev's we got. If we continue to ***** and moan about every little thing all they are going to do is work for themselves and maybe a couple of close friends and leave us out because all we ever do is complain. I know we are all eager to use our sweet ass phone to its full potential, but its going to take time. Just look at the g1 and how long it took to have it running at full potential and beyond. All i'm asking for is peace in this thread and make it a pleasure to come in here and read about new developments in peace. [end rant]

thread reported
...twice for good measure

Right on the money
You hit it right on the money.STFU people. Your not dev'n your bit**in, casuing it to slow down. We would porbally have CM6 if people would quit there yappin. Go play outside.

I sincerely hope you don't believe this thread is going to stop anything. This forum has been the same for many years and It will never change. This forum is full of children and they're all going to argue and fight. Your best bet is to ignore it and continue to what you're doing. Posting a thread like this puts yourself right down at their level.

for real. Im not sure if 75% of people on xda are children, but 75% are definitely childish.
i have never seen so much childish like arguing, fighting, and comments in my life
If people posted their age (real of course) I would assume that the large majority are 12-17.
threads like this never seem to actually change anything, but it does make me feel a little better to see a few people not acting like 12 yr olds.
Im not getting all 'high and mighty' but i think i act like a 'normal' person (not a whiny brat).
--not saying that younger people should not be here, or course they should, they just should not act so stupid, aggressive, impatient, disrespectful, immature with the comments

Coming from ppcgeeks this place is a war zone. I actually stayed at ppcgeeks even when I had a nexus one because everyone here is so rude.
You make a new topic and God forbid there's been another one days ago made, so now everyone jumps on your case hard core.
Unfortunately I have to come here cause ppcgeeks is mainly cdma ..
But it took a learning curve coming here.. gotta put on war paint to make a thread or even a post..lol

or if people want to argue about silly little things they can use this thread or make one thread just for arguing, if thats what gets you off, but leave the development threads clean and only post about relevent things dealing with the actual thread
p.s. Thanks Mods for moving it to the proper forum

kboater said:
for real. Im not sure if 75% of people on xda are children, but 75% are definitely childish.
i have never seen so much childish like arguing, fighting, and comments in my life
Click to expand...
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Welcome to the internet and the power of anonymous posting! Nothing works better than a mask to hide behind and do and say things *most* people wouldn't do or say face to face.
Luis

Cool story bro.
Sent from the Matrix

Funny all the *****y haters didnt post yet.....hahahaha
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

noticed it myself, and suspect some of it is due to feelings of inadequacy on some posters' - literally
there's one poster that 90%+ of his/her posts are rude, illogical and slamming on someone else's post - i've started to suspect that poster just needs to feed his/her own feelings of self-importance, and a keyboard is an easy & convenient tool

Waaah! My phone don't work! Waaaah! People won't stop complaining! Waaaah! People don't do the things I want them to do!
You know what complaining about complainers gets you? More complainers. Yeah.

Yeah?!?!?!
Well F you for starting this thread BRO!!!
/sarcasm

F everyone i'm done [throws vibrant out window] going back to the g1

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765441

I guess we should all be happy with beta-at-best quality work just because we're "lucky" to get the attention.

any phone has issues. Hell if its not the GPS its something else. N1s wacky touch screen that sucks, Droid x locked bootloader, evo separated screen and frame cap, etc.
No matter what there will always be something needing fixing or in samsungs eyes
OPTIMIZATIONS lol

joe.kerwin said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765441
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lol nice example

I read the title as "missing patches". Haha, I thought you were gonna be whining about no patches for gps or something.
I agree tho, been thinking it was just the captivate side with all the iphone people new to xda. I actually thought of leaving and coming back in a couple of months when things settle down.
Sent from my captivate

From what I see a lot of the pissing matches comes when 1 person has a different opinion on something and everyone has to tell him/her that is wrong.
I do agree though no one should EVER ***** or complain to a developer.
However if someone states a flaw without going oh my god this ruined my phone, but only just states it I don't see why everyone has to try to jump on them (usually the case).
For example in one thread I stated that I missed froyo and I hate that the Vibrant doesn't have it yet. Someone asked me what i missed, I answered with exactly what I missed and examples and I got jumped on for being impatient about developers releasing it. Never once did I say I wanted CM or any develeoper to release it (in fact I want it directly from Samsung), but the pitch forks came screaming those aren't big deals and and i needed to stfu and wait for a developer to release it.... which was never my point.
Too many people think there way is the only right way to think. Its rather annoying to see how far people will go too. Also I find that alot of people in these pissing matches don't read entire posts which I find funny because 1 person is usually arguing with someone who has the same general opinion but slightly different and they make it out to be a night and day difference.

[Q] "Huge Announcement"?

OK, preface: I don't want your sarcasm or cheeky remarks. I'm sick of reading through irrelevant and closed threads to no avail.
If it were agreeable, would a MOD, or SamsungJohn please comment as to whether the "huge announcement" has been made?
I'm not trying to be negative or anything, but I have my own personal thoughts as to whether "opening the lines of communication" is considered "huge", or even an "announcement". If the powers that be allow, I would like to comment to SamsungJohn about that personally.

Meetloaf13 said:
OK, preface: I don't want your sarcasm or cheeky remarks. I'm sick of reading through irrelevant and closed threads to no avail.
If it were agreeable, would a MOD, or SamsungJohn please comment as to whether the "huge announcement" has been made?
I'm not trying to be negative or anything, but I have my own personal thoughts as to whether "opening the lines of communication" is considered "huge", or even an "announcement". If the powers that be allow, I would like to comment to SamsungJohn about that personally.
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Send him a PM then.

The dude is full of crap.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

REALLY?....guys just wait you don't even know what he's going to announce.
He has proven he works for Samsung so he's not fake and is talking to the higher ups
.....Just wait we don't know what he's even capable of or what he's going to do for our community.

Isaint the announcement was that they have started a q&a with a poll that's it bro
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

O my bad dude 8(
...lol i still don't see it though where did you guys see this?

EB13 Imminent?
So is this the "huge announcement"?
http://www.androidcentral.com/froyo-eb01-release-imminent-sprint-epic-4g
Android central suggests that the EB13 update is "imminent" and that sprint has been making changes to its customer service page in advance of this.
EDIT: Actually I think they are suggesting that Samsung is updating its Epic 4g page. Hopwever, when I follow AC's link it just goes to a blank page with a little form at the bottom asking if I was satisfied with the content. I said "no".

dr_gibberish said:
So is this the "huge announcement"?
http://www.androidcentral.com/froyo-eb01-release-imminent-sprint-epic-4g
Android central suggests that the EB13 update is "imminent" and that sprint has been making changes to its customer service page in advance of this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. That's not even confirmed. The big announcement is yet to be announced, everyone just be patient.
Sent from my Epic 4G

dr_gibberish said:
So is this the "huge announcement"?
http://www.androidcentral.com/froyo-eb01-release-imminent-sprint-epic-4g
Android central suggests that the EB13 update is "imminent" and that sprint has been making changes to its customer service page in advance of this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This announcement of EB13 is good for us Epic owners, but that does not effect all Galaxy S owners. I think the better news is that John is here to make sure we don't have another debacle like this whole Froyo update. Samsung realizes the influence we have and to have a line of communication between a Manufacturer and a dev forum is unprecedented.

IF the poll he is compiling is the 'big news', then if it actually bears fruit, that could be useful. Not sure that is the announcement. I think he shot himself in the foot promising an announcement, maybe official collaboration between him and svetius is a big deal to him, but until it bears fruit, it's not that impressive to the average XDA user. This leads me to believe that the poll may not be the announcement, just another part of the work he is trying to accomplish here. Give him a shot, and dont ***** about froyo, he said its on the list, wait and see what he does.
Silly flaming about froyo on here is only going to get threads closed, and give him an excuse to ignore the issue. If you must, do it on the social network sites, or PM him, then you can get your temp ban, and threads stay open...
As speculated in one of the general threads, (ran out of thanks if I didnt catch it), he MAY be sent here as a distraction, to keep us off twitter, FB, and the other retarded social networking forums. He is from that dept, maybe he is cleaning it up by distracting us...? Kind of an elaborate conspiricy, but who knows. Those that have been doing the twitter/FB campaigns, dont let up, it may be working... but keep the crazy comments there, as it will draw more attention to the unrooted masses...
HOPING SJohn is making such a big deal because he knows something he cant say yet... just hope he doesnt drag it out and announce froyo on the 20th!
This still reminds me of the Fallout3/Vegas on the PS3 BS...

Working nights sucks! I go to bed and all the fun comes and all I find are locked threads after a cup of coffee when I wake up. :/
So how many armchair bandits have actually sent a pm to the xda owner on what we might do as requested? I did suggest a moderated forum where posts are only posted until after being reviewed by a mod. While I'm no dev I did offer to help out with such an endeavour.

Why don't you guys just give him a chance. His hands are tired right now and be can't say anything untill xda allows him.
Android Creative Syndicate- From spontaneous ingenuity, comes creative brilliance

ungovernable1977 said:
As speculated in one of the general threads, (ran out of thanks if I didnt catch it), he MAY be sent here as a distraction, to keep us off twitter, FB, and the other retarded social networking forums. He is from that dept, maybe he is cleaning it up by distracting us...? Kind of an elaborate conspiricy, but who knows.
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Click to collapse
The first part of your post was spot-on....the above though is way too tinfoil hat and outside the realm of the feasible or credible. There's no way anyone in a position like his is going to come here or elsewhere to simply serve 'as a distraction'. Frustrations especially amongst we Epic owners are understandable to a point, but the above manner of thinking goes beyond frustration and crosses the line into bizzare paranoia.
It seems fairly obvious and certainly logical what's happened with John to this point, and in hindsight predictable too given the angst here; he came primarily with the hopeful purpose to collaborate with the people actually doing ROM/device development here, to try and establish a relationship with these folks perhaps to mutual benefit for both current and future product/customers. Unfortunately, the initial implementation came a bit too soon and without enough forethought and, it seems, without communicating his intentions and initiating a dialogue with the XDA owners first. That, combined with (a.) some obvious communication 'ambiguity' (at best) on John's part and (b.) making the mistake of thinking such a dialogue should be brought forth and attempted with the open masses of the entire membership of XDA down to the end user level and all the kneejerk 'angry white noise' therein, proved to be a disaster.
None of that means the desire and effort behind what John/Samsung is attempting is without value or merit though. And fortunately, it now sounds like they're going to try isolating his interaction purely with the dev/material contributers that actually matter, and hopefully they'll do so privately as well to keep everything filtered from the mob mentality so that an actual civil, mature interactive process can take place. Besides, a great deal of what he was barraged with in the central 'General' thread were issues that are mired on the carrier level anyway at least when it comes to the remaining GS phones still lacking Froyo.
And honestly, any information the end users want to hear, if he can even provide such, would be better received and trusted if its handed down through already established devs & moderators in each forum who have the history and respect of the membership at large to some degree. Otherwise you get what you've gotten the last 24 hours; a mindless, angry lynch mob mentality of kneejerk frustration being directed at one sole employee who (a.) had nothing personally to do with the cause of said frustration, and (b.) furthermore actually dares to come in good faith & intention wishing to bridge the divide. Sometimes, the hounds become so rabid and lose their minds so much that they try to gnaw off the good intentioned hand that attempts to try and help or feed them, and that's pretty much what happened in John's case.

Although it would be cool, I highly doubt that XDA is doing and hands-tying here. The ball has bee Sammy's court for a while now.
XDA has been walking the walk, not talking the talk.
If the 'huge announcement' was to announce the efforts of "collaboration", fine, we can move forward.
If a MOD came and commented YAY or NAY, then they could close this thread, and it's purpose would be served.
As it stands now, you have a bunch of people making assumptions one way or the other and making silly statements accordingly. We all what assuming does... =D

how do you know about my tinfoil hat?! No, really, its all Noobnl and Elvis' fault. Bastards.
I honestly hope John does something more than get special threads and draw attention to XDA. But you had a good idea there....
Any Mod/Admin have any input????
Was the announcement the first post of the 2 or 3 threads SJ started, or were they to lead up to the announcement, and were hijacked by angry SGS users with pitchforks acting like John is Frankenstein's monster??
BTW, did anyone notice the GSM SGS users were much more rabid in the General forums???? I guess its because of their rates/service ratio Seriously though, I thought we were bad...

it is getting all hyped up and will probably turn out to be meh...

ungovernable1977 said:
how do you know about my tinfoil hat?! No, really, its all Noobnl and Elvis' fault. Bastards.
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Haha, I wasn't referencing you personally, just the 'threads' you were referencing and the mentality portrayed therein.

Hehe, you can't say "huge announcement" to a bunch of nerds and not have it be something that gives them their techie-jimmies for the day.
When I think of "huge announcement", I think something really relevant to the target crowd that either appeases are very much wanted need, or announcing something crazy that gets everyone excited.
If either of these things fails to happen, I consider this a major PR gaffe, that could be saved be some out of the ordinary effort by Sammy.
Silly mens!

Meetloaf13 said:
Hehe, you can't say "huge announcement" to a bunch of nerds and not have it be something that gives them their techie-jimmies for the day.
When I think of "huge announcement", I think something really relevant to the target crowd that either appeases are very much wanted need, or announcing something crazy that gets everyone excited.
If either of these things fails to happen, I consider this a major PR gaffe, that could be saved be some out of the ordinary effort by Sammy.
Silly mens!
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Agreed fully. That is what makes this so puzzling. Stop being so damn ambiguous SamsungJohn and just come out and tell us in no uncertain terms what the announcement is and what you would like from us.

PythonFanTN said:
Haha, I wasn't referencing you personally, just the 'threads' you were referencing and the mentality portrayed therein.
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oh I know... I just referenced the 'distraction theory', as it is PLAUSIBLE, although not likely... plus its entertaining... this is like my geek soap opera.... please SPRINT, please take this as far as you can... I really wanna see minds lost here.
The best part is that some of these theories end up on so called media websites, Engadget, I got my HTC assassin theory from a very reliable source... please write an 'article' about it... why not... ?