Database Users

What to do using unsupported Rom?

Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
I'm using an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Yes I'm using Cronos Froyo, and I'm an honest user who doesn't care much for xda forums politics.
I've read the comments that the moderators have written in the thread and whilst I understand what they have written, do end users really have to suffer because of a dispute between developers?
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
Also, I wonder if the xda moderators have consulted laywers about the GPL as it is a legal document and thus won't be as black and white as it seems. A lot of companies behave not dissimilarly to feeyo and survive the threat of any action.
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.

plonkersaurus said:
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
I'm using an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Yes I'm using Cronos Froyo, and I'm an honest user who doesn't care much for xda forums politics.
I've read the comments that the moderators have written in the thread and whilst I understand what they have written, do end users really have to suffer because of a dispute between developers?
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
Also, I wonder if the xda moderators have consulted laywers about the GPL as it is a legal document and thus won't be as black and white as it seems. A lot of companies behave not dissimilarly to feeyo and survive the threat of any action.
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe he still releases in his forum - just do a google search

nope, it seems his account has been suspended on the domain, not good.

plonkersaurus said:
sing an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's AOSP ROMs. Without even plugging my own, there's the Fusion project for a start.

Froyd and Fusion are Cyanogen based roms which I've tried and don't work so well for me.
I'd count them as Vanilla roms not AOSP

Dude. You might as well turn xda into thepiratebay.Breaking a software licence is illegal no matter if the software is proprietary or open source.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

plonkersaurus said:
Froyd and Fusion are Cyanogen based roms which I've tried and don't work so well for me.
I'd count them as Vanilla roms not AOSP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only non AOSP thing about them is:
They include Google Apps
They include proprietary libs grabbed from the phone to make the phone work.
Guess what, that's what AOSP ROMs do too, the ones released here anyway, since they're largely unusable without Google Apps (Market, etc) and the libs needed to make the phone work.
If you want plain AOSP, you better have an ADP1, ADP2 or a Nexus One. There is no such thing as a pure AOSP Hero ROM.
What people mean when they refer to AOSP, is they yanked the git straight from Android and compiled it for X phone, adding in whatever apps along with the Google apps and the prop libs.
Cyanogenmod is also AOSP in that same sense. Only there's a ton of people working on the repo and fixing stuff that Android don't or haven't yet.
If you've run into a CM based ROM that doesn't work well for you then it's still down to the builder. Chances are if they made an "AOSP" ROM, it'd be even worse.

I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.

Hacre said:
The only non AOSP thing about them is:
They include Google Apps
They include proprietary libs grabbed from the phone to make the phone work.
Guess what, that's what AOSP ROMs do too, the ones released here anyway, since they're largely unusable without Google Apps (Market, etc) and the libs needed to make the phone work.
If you want plain AOSP, you better have an ADP1, ADP2 or a Nexus One. There is no such thing as a pure AOSP Hero ROM.
What people mean when they refer to AOSP, is they yanked the git straight from Android and compiled it for X phone, adding in whatever apps along with the Google apps and the prop libs.
Cyanogenmod is also AOSP in that same sense. Only there's a ton of people working on the repo and fixing stuff that Android don't or haven't yet.
If you've run into a CM based ROM that doesn't work well for you then it's still down to the builder. Chances are if they made an "AOSP" ROM, it'd be even worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cyanogenmod roms change a lot more things than just needed to get android working properly and I'm not a huge fan of all the changes

plonkersaurus said:
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
.....
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
.....
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1... Switch to another ROM, or stick with what you have, they are your two options.
2... No, other devs do not have a "donators only beta testing section", and regardless if they did or not, I think you need to go and re-read all the info the mods have given about the GPL issue before adding your 2 pence worth.
3... I owe feeyo nothing. He may have produced ROMS, but contribute to the community he did not.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

plonkersaurus said:
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha what. Being a developer doesn't mean you "get" the point of the GPL. Plenty of developers over at Microsoft don't "get" it. That doesn't make it any less valid.
In fact your entire post just screams "I do not understand open source development, what on Earth is wrong with people doing stuff themselves and hoarding it".
The "pioneering development" as you put it doesn't happen by individuals because it happens in groups. You know, lots of minds working towards a common goal.
Jesus on a bike.
EDIT: woah..
plonkersaurus said:
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I missed this when I first read the OP. Hahaha no he wasn't. Battery life has to be one of the most done to death topics on these forums and do you know what? Your battery life is solely dependent on you the phone user, providing of course the developer or the cooker hasn't done something utterly retarded to the ROM that causes battery to run down.
Until Froyo was released, Cronos wasn't even a compiled ROM it was a precompiled Sense ROM and as such subject to all the whims of the HTC base that the rest of us were.
Oh and I don't owe him anything. Never used his ROM, never benefited from what he apparently gave back to the community (nothing). He owed me and whomever else asked him for it, source code, which happened to be the one thing he never once provided while being happy to make use of source code provided by others.

Hacre said:
Hahaha what. Being a develloper doesn't mean you "get" the point of the GPL. Plenty of developers over at Microsoft don't "get" it. That doesn't make it any less valid.
In fact your entire post just screams "I do not understand open source development, what on Earth is wrong with people doing stuff themselves and hoarding it".
The "pioneering development" as you put it doesn't happen by individuals because it happens in groups. You know, lots of minds working towards a common goal.
Jesus on a bike.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't mention GPL anywhere in my post.
I mentioned that I wouldn't help this community due to the fact people would be accepting donations for what would be in part my work which I think is immoral.
That is what my post was about.
Plus I think you will find Linus wrote Linux by himself so individuals are capable of greatness.

plonkersaurus said:
Plus I think you will find Linus wrote Linux by himself so individuals are capable of greatness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Re check your history. Linus did not write Linux by himself. He wrote the first kernel by himself. Linux wasn't truly born until he released it along with the source code and people started fixing it, writing drivers for it and writing coreutils/toolchains around it. It didn't approach anything like popular until it got x86 support and the kernel reached a level of maturity in the 2.0.x releases. Collaborative development/debugging. It's an amazing thing. Stunted quickly by the "I will not share" attitude that you're defending and supporting.
I am genuinely curious as to how you can guarantee that people will receive donations for your work. Or why you'd even care. My kernel source tree is used by others, I don't lose a wink of sleep over whether they get donations for their finished ROM or not, it doesn't matter.
Donations are just that, donations. They are not a fee. They are not someone taking someone else's work and then charging for it. They're something that an individual feels that they want to give to someone out of the kindness of their hearts as a thank you as well as the fact that donations are quite a rarity.
I got my first donation today. It'll buy me a few beers. It won't make me rich. I got it for my work on the kernel and my work on the Villain 2.2 ROMs. Have a guess how many people at Villain are now pissy that I got a donation and not the project itself. None. Have a guess how many GNU developers are now hand wringing themselves with pure fret because some guy got bought a beer for some work he did on their code. None.
You didn't have to mention the GPL in your post. The GPL is why these ridiculous threads keep springing up, it was the GPL and the failure to adhere to it, that got Feeyo canned.
People with your attitude toward community development have no place on these forums. Kindly take the door that has a Feeyo shaped hole in it.

plonkersaurus said:
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't want to share then Android is not for you.
And why the big deal about asking for donations. Its not free to run a site. And a donation is hardly mandatory, the clue is in the name, no-one was bent over and forced to do anything they never wanted to.
I have used Villain on and off since Feb and haven't donated a penny.
.... and Batman? Really? Yes he makes the decisions that no one else can, for the greater good, the bigger picture... he doesn't play hero just to boost his own ego.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

Hacre said:
EDIT: woah..
I missed this when I first read the OP. Hahaha no he wasn't. Battery life has to be one of the most done to death topics on these forums and do you know what? Your battery life is solely dependent on you the phone user, providing of course the developer or the cooker hasn't done something utterly retarded to the ROM that causes battery to run down.
Until Froyo was released, Cronos wasn't even a compiled ROM it was a precompiled Sense ROM and as such subject to all the whims of the HTC base that the rest of us were.
Oh and I don't owe him anything. Never used his ROM, never benefited from what he apparently gave back to the community (nothing). He owed me and whomever else asked him for it, source code, which happened to be the one thing he never once provided while being happy to make use of source code provided by others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, so you never used his rom. I did and it was leagues ahead of anything else at the time. It made our phones really usable with 2.1. I remember when it was first released it was in the top 5 threads for a week on the front page of xda so I'm sure I wasn't the only one to experience this.
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.

plonkersaurus said:
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My first four or five requests were incredibly polite. There were a plethora of polite request the first time he pulled this stunt too. My reason for asking was irrelevant. However my reason for asking for those particular sources, were twofold:
1: I didn't believe it.
2: If it was true then the community should damn well get access to it so we as a group can get it up to full working order so that EVERY ROM DEVELOPER can make use of it.
Taken over? What? I now don't believe that you're a developer, at least nothing outside pointing and clicking in a GUI based programming tool in some office somewhere, because you clearly have no idea of what collaborative development is. You cannot shut anyone, ANYONE, out of a GPL project, that's the whole frigging point. See my signature? Source code. Source code anyone can take and modify. Source code people are welcome to change, fix, port, patch and if they want to, submit a pull request so I can merge those fixes in.
Click the link. Follow the fork tree. Observe the magic as my changes move upstream to the original cyanogenmod + Hero kernel. Observe further magic as changes they make merge their way down into my kernel. Yeah I/we are really all about shutting people out.
Stop trolling.

plonkersaurus said:
Ok, so you never used his rom. I did and it was leagues ahead of anything else at the time. It made our phones really usable with 2.1. I remember when it was first released it was in the top 5 threads for a week on the front page of xda so I'm sure I wasn't the only one to experience this.
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might be right, maybe they wouldn't have let him be in the team, maybe they would have. Who cares, they would have had to credit it to him either way, just as they credit help from other developers now.
The main point is that he wasn't willing to help push things forward. He wanted all the spotlight for himself.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

Hacre said:
Re check your history. Linus did not write Linux by himself. He wrote the first kernel by himself. Linux wasn't truly born until he released it along with the source code and people started fixing it, writing drivers for it and writing coreutils/toolchains around it. It didn't approach anything like popular until it got x86 support and the kernel reached a level of maturity in the 2.0.x releases. Collaborative development/debugging. It's an amazing thing. Stunted quickly by the "I will not share" attitude that you're defending and supporting.
I am genuinely curious as to how you can guarantee that people will receive donations for your work. Or why you'd even care. My kernel source tree is used by others, I don't lose a wink of sleep over whether they get donations for their finished ROM or not, it doesn't matter.
Donations are just that, donations. They are not a fee. They are not someone taking someone else's work and then charging for it. They're something that an individual feels that they want to give to someone out of the kindness of their hearts as a thank you as well as the fact that donations are quite a rarity.
I got my first donation today. It'll buy me a few beers. It won't make me rich. I got it for my work on the kernel and my work on the Villain 2.2 ROMs. Have a guess how many people at Villain are now pissy that I got a donation and not the project itself. None. Have a guess how many GNU developers are now hand wringing themselves with pure fret because some guy got bought a beer for some work he did on their code. None.
You didn't have to mention the GPL in your post. The GPL is why these ridiculous threads keep springing up, it was the GPL and the failure to adhere to it, that got Feeyo canned.
People with your attitude toward community development have no place on these forums. Kindly take the door that has a Feeyo shaped hole in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the problem here is your attitude, you seem to think you own the place. I am free to stay here as I wish as far as I know. I also don't believe you are reading my posts correctly as you seem to think I am against community programming which is further from the truth.
I never said I wouldn't share. I wouldn't share with you. I think community programming is great all things being equal. It seems to me that the hero community here is terrible right now and thus I wouldn't help it.
Getting people banned definitely isn't making you friends either. I honestly never saw you wanting to work with feeyo only to get at his work.
I would have no problem helping out trying to get android to work on the Xperia X1 and supplying my source code as that is a true example of people working together.

Hacre said:
My first four or five requests were incredibly polite. There were a plethora of polite request the first time he pulled this stunt too. My reason for asking was irrelevant. However my reason for asking for those particular sources, were twofold:
1: I didn't believe it.
2: If it was true then the community should damn well get access to it so we as a group can get it up to full working order so that EVERY ROM DEVELOPER can make use of it.
Taken over? What? I now don't believe that you're a developer, at least nothing outside pointing and clicking in a GUI based programming tool in some office somewhere, because you clearly have no idea of what collaborative development is. You cannot shut anyone, ANYONE, out of a GPL project, that's the whole frigging point. See my signature? Source code. Source code anyone can take and modify. Source code people are welcome to change, fix, port, patch and if they want to, submit a pull request so I can merge those fixes in.
Click the link. Follow the fork tree. Observe the magic as my changes move upstream to the original cyanogenmod + Hero kernel. Observe further magic as changes they make merge their way down into my kernel. Yeah I/we are really all about shutting people out.
Stop trolling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not what I mean by shutting people out. I'm not trolling but replying to your false accusations.
You are also trying to personally discredit me by calling me a point and click GUI programmer which is below the belt. You know nothing about me.
What I mean is, working together as these roms are virtually the same project is about communicating. Something that would not have happened and does in a real collaborative effort.
I'm sick of this thread and having to defend myself because you fail to understand what working together really means. And no it's not just following rules. It's obvious you aren't a professional programmer. People skills and management are just as important as being able to program and that is the point I am trying to get at.

I think you've formed your opinion and regardless of how many times Hacre blows your point out of the water, your not going to be swayed are you. He shouldn't even have to explain himself to you, every point had been covered in the other fan threads already.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

[PETITION]Sign if you want to make your own decisions about potentially unsafe leaks!

UPDATE: In the potential circumstance that a leak has been watermarked and job(s) are at stake then I think I speak for everyone in saying that a ROM should not be publicly released unless the watermark has been removed (if that's impossible, then it still shouldn't be released). This petition is not unique to the DK05 leak; it goes for any leak that is not watermarked. The reason I am posting it now is because people have cited bricking problems over watermarking in DK05.
This thread was made to unify and organize the voices of those who feel that it is our own responsibility to decide whether or not we should flash potentially unsafe ROMs, specifically leaks.
We feel that it is NOT the responsibility of the developers or the XDA staff to protect us from potentially unsafe ROMs.
We have seen that at least some staff, and at least some developers feel that it is their responsibility to protect us from potentially unsafe ROMs.
We would like to firmly but kindly remind these people that we and we alone should decide what gets flashed onto our phones.
We would like to remind them that we can and will take full responsibility for whatever happens when we flash these ROMs.
We would like to remind them that we can and will use the various guides to restore our phone if something goes seriously wrong.
Finally, we would like to remind them that those people who don't take full responsibility for flashing a potentially unsafe ROM can and should be dealt with through methods that do not impact the community at large.
Sign by posting if you are one of us. Please post only once and do not post if you are not signing. There are numerous other threads open for discussion.

Signed
Though I find when one part if a community is forced to petition another for fair treatment that's a bad sign

WHAT DO WE WANT? BRICKED PHONES! WHEN DO WE WANT EM? NOW!!!!!
xda mods, please dont make my decisions for me. if i want to chug four loko and flash buggy beta roms i should have the right to do so!
i dont need a nanny.

Signed... I don't understand what the problem was with releasing dk05? I am running it just fine. Now if I remember correctly we could brick our phones from flashing to anything not just betas. Isn't that what the devs always put in the op "I do not take responsibility if your phone gets bricked due to flashing this rom" or something along those lines. I do not see why nothing could be said like that and just gave us the damn leak in the first place.. oh well though, I got it anyways. Thanks.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Signed...sgs are unbrickable...u can even jimmy rig some resistors and force into dl mode if u mess up that far ....odin flash ur good to go... All the excuses we have been given r just that...excuses...how about we as a community educate..well ... The community....once a strong base is established..guess what the community will grow and there will be infinitely less useless threads pop up
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

NOT Signed.
What the OP is leaving out in this "petition" is the fact that these leaks are watermarked with specific code that allows "the powers that be" to easily discover the source of said leak.
So basically, everyone signing this "petition" is demanding that developers share their internal/confidential leaks with the public because you have a selfish sense of entitlement, and don't give a rat's a** if someone loses their job over it. Behavior like this, which is 98% exclusive to Android, is precisely why I waited several years before leaving Windows Mobile.
/end my rant as an Android user and someone with a common sense of decency. The preceding post was done not as a Moderator, and is strictly my personal observation.

NotATreoFan said:
NOT Signed.
What the OP is leaving out in this "petition" is the fact that these leaks are watermarked with specific code that allows "the powers that be" to easily discover the source of said leak.
So basically, everyone signing this "petition" is demanding that developers share their internal/confidential leaks with the public because you have a selfish sense of entitlement, and don't give a rat's a** if someone loses their job over it. Behavior like this, which is 98% exclusive to Android, is precisely why I waited several years before leaving Windows Mobile.
/end my rant as an Android user and someone with a common sense of decency. The preceding post was done not as a Moderator, and is strictly my personal observation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree with you 100%, when developers post all over the forums and brag about roms that they have and how awesome they are while refusing to share with the rest of us, that is pretty ****ty and does nothing but piss people off. This has happened with EVERY SINGLE LEAK. Even in the thread where the DK05 rom was leaked, the very people denouncing the leak were bragging about having DK17, i mean seriously? The reason that this behavior didn't occur with Windows Mobile was that the devs actually EXPLAINED to their users what was going on and updated them instead of keeping them in the dark. I have no problem with Devs not releasing the roms, but if you are going to brag about having them to the rest of the forum, you better start a damn thread and at least give us updates on what the rom fixes or breaks and the cool features that Samsung is including in said rom.

muyoso said:
While I agree with you 100%, when developers post all over the forums and brag about roms that they have and how awesome they are while refusing to share with the rest of us, that is pretty ****ty and does nothing but piss people off. This has happened with EVERY SINGLE LEAK. Even in the thread where the DK05 rom was leaked, the very people denouncing the leak were bragging about having DK17, i mean seriously? The reason that this behavior didn't occur with Windows Mobile was that the devs actually EXPLAINED to their users what was going on and updated them instead of keeping them in the dark. I have no problem with Devs not releasing the roms, but if you are going to brag about having them to the rest of the forum, you better start a damn thread and at least give us updates on what the rom fixes or breaks and the cool features that Samsung is including in said rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if it's only a thread, you are still demanding. And unless you are that dev's significant other or their boss, you have absolutely no right to do this.

muyoso said:
While I agree with you 100%, when developers post all over the forums and brag about roms that they have and how awesome they are while refusing to share with the rest of us, that is pretty ****ty and does nothing but piss people off. This has happened with EVERY SINGLE LEAK. Even in the thread where the DK05 rom was leaked, the very people denouncing the leak were bragging about having DK17, i mean seriously? The reason that this behavior didn't occur with Windows Mobile was that the devs actually EXPLAINED to their users what was going on and updated them instead of keeping them in the dark. I have no problem with Devs not releasing the roms, but if you are going to brag about having them to the rest of the forum, you better start a damn thread and at least give us updates on what the rom fixes or breaks and the cool features that Samsung is including in said rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally a reply with an argument... Here is the deal. Even if they are hitting you in the face with the leak, that still does not entitle you to have it nor you have any right to demand it. Period, there is no way around it. Nor you, me, the other admins, or anyone in this place can force a dev to do otherwise.
As for the "teaser" threads, I agree... I personally don't like those as more often than not, they are used to drive up donations, which is why Rule 11 is currently being amended to prevent this from happening. It is like eating a 12 oz stake in front of a starving child, not cool. However, there is a thin line between a teaser and a closed beta. This was supposed to be a closed beta, and it ended up being a leaked leak.
BTW, Not Signed either...

NotATreoFan said:
NOT Signed.
What the OP is leaving out in this "petition" is the fact that these leaks are watermarked with specific code that allows "the powers that be" to easily discover the source of said leak.
So basically, everyone signing this "petition" is demanding that developers share their internal/confidential leaks with the public because you have a selfish sense of entitlement, and don't give a rat's a** if someone loses their job over it. Behavior like this, which is 98% exclusive to Android, is precisely why I waited several years before leaving Windows Mobile.
/end my rant as an Android user and someone with a common sense of decency. The preceding post was done not as a Moderator, and is strictly my personal observation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please don't assume that this is about DK05/any watermarked leak (if DK05 is in fact watermarked). I've updated the first post.
I'll take this opportunity as my 1 post to sign my own petition. Everyone else please return to normal.

Well what is the real case here because I also read a post saying that the exact same korean dudes info is on the SPRINT stock di18 which,if true, would leave all argument moot. So maybe someone will be kind enough to try and confirm compare stock di18, dg27 etc
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Today is a great day to go visit other forums. Too many self-righteous adults acting like spoiled children in xda today.
(not directed specifically at this thread, it's just one of many in the past few days)

NotATreoFan said:
Even if it's only a thread, you are still demanding. And unless you are that dev's significant other or their boss, you have absolutely no right to do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point of this petition is that people don't want to be "protected" in that way..it is unrelated to the watermarks or the demands...It is understandable if something is not released due to a watermark that can effect someone's job...BUT if the said case is merely "its for your own good cause you can brick your phone" thats what the petition is about and strictly that..lets not bundle multiple issues in 1.
That said, this should have been a poll rather then people responding as it was bound to get discussion within it >.>

gTen said:
The point of this petition is that people don't want to be "protected" in that way..it is unrelated to the watermarks or the demands...It is understandable if something is not released due to a watermark that can effect someone's job...BUT if the said case is merely "its for your own good cause you can brick your phone" thats what the petition is about and strictly that..lets not bundle multiple issues in 1.
That said, this should have been a poll rather then people responding as it was bound to get discussion within it >.>
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That would be the dev's prerogative/excuse. Again, still no one is entitled to demand for anything around here, as stated by NATF.

zigarath said:
Well what is the real case here because I also read a post saying that the exact same korean dudes info is on the SPRINT stock di18 which,if true, would leave all argument moot. So maybe someone will be kind enough to try and confirm compare stock di18, dg27 etc
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Heres the part about the "Korean dude" whos name is on DK05 and DI bklah blah whatever.All that is is the name of the machine that built the build in the first place thats all it is nothing more its not the owner of the leaked build just the name of the machine that built it.

Thanks skeet for clearing this up...have enjoyed ur work thus far and thank u for ur time to educate us.. So to end this please no more arguments or discussions of watermarks endangering an employees job as these arguments are now pointless lets keep threads focused to ops topic...and grow from this
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

No problem I am surprised noboby has said that yet in all the times I have seen people talk about that ShinLi or whatever the name is the the server farm/single machine that spends its life building Android for our phones.

egzthunder1 said:
That would be the dev's prerogative/excuse. Again, still no one is entitled to demand for anything around here, as stated by NATF.
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Its a petition..to try to express the beliefs of the community..as stated its a different issue from the watermark or demand..if the dev doesn't want to release thats fine too..its their choice..but one thing we do demand is respect as based on rule 2.5 (if I am interpreting it correctly)...so we don't want an excuse of "We aren't releasing it because it will brick your phone and you won't know what to do" kind of thing...

this is ridiculous
i haven't posted very much in these forums, and don even have an epic yet. i plan on getting one in feb and was doing research since i haven't been on a stock rom for more than a day in years.
that being said i just wanted to say that no one owes any of us anything. the devs in this community are not here to be your slaves. non of us have any right to ask when a rom will be completed, demand any leaked information, or even have access to this site at all. i don't know about you but i haven't paid a penny for this site and I've gotten plenty of benefit by using the information here.
I just want to say thank you to all the devs on these forums and keep up the good work. i look forward to flashing a customer rom on my future epic as i have on my kaiser, rhodium and aria.
also petition not signed.

gTen said:
Its a petition..to try to express the beliefs of the community..as stated its a different issue from the watermark or demand..if the dev doesn't want to release thats fine too..its their choice..but one thing we do demand is respect as based on rule 2.5 (if I am interpreting it correctly)...so we don't want an excuse of "We aren't releasing it because it will brick your phone and you won't know what to do" kind of thing...
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Click to collapse
You are not out of line in wanting respect, once it has been earned. For the record, I am not trying to say that is the case here. But resorting to demands and petitions will not help the overall situation. If you or anyone else feels like someone is behaving in a questionable or suspicious/cocky manner, please use the Report Post option, and we will review and address the situation accordingly.

Mandatory "donations" for ROM access?

This is becoming more and more common. Does it bother anybody else? I mean i dont lose sleep over it, but it kind of ruins the "community" feel and turns things into more of a business.
Donations are slowly turning into payments. This is precisely why i PERSONALLY never believed in the word donation in the development world, but lets not get into that debate.
I mean, if a dev/dev team is really good, im sure they get more than enough donations to fund their work, seeing as though im always seeing people on the forums talk about how theyll donate or how much they donated. I feel like whats happening is a dev/dev team starts out strong, and at first is just soaking up the notoriety amongst users, and understandably so. But as time goes, and their knowledge and popularity grows, they realize "hey, we could probably make some serious money off this" but then they realize that that just goes against the whole "doing it in your free time" or "doing what we love doing" concepts, so they insist on continuing to label it a "donation".
Let me be clear, I have absolutely no problem with a dev/dev team expecting money in order to grant access to something that is popular. Thats what a lot of governments are founded on, and these guys definitely deserve a little spending money for all of the smiles they put on peoples faces. I just dont like the abuse of the word "donation" that takes place. Why dont you just say "you have to pay for it"? Cause thats pretty much what is going down......
This isnt directed at anyone in particular, im simply curious to see how other people feel about it.

I feel the same way. Label it as payment/charge/etc and it will be good. Just dont use the word donation when only a donation gets the user access to an area of forums, kernels, roms, other, software. Its just not correct to do
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.

JeremyNT said:
It's incredibly silly. In many cases these people are charging for tweaking something that they didn't create and don't even have the rights to redistribute.
When you get right down to it, every ROM here that's built off of one of the leaked Froyo builds is in murky territory. Although parts of those leaks are GPL'd, there are tons of proprietary Samsung bits in there, and if Samsung felt like it they could slap everybody with a C&D on redistributing that stuff.
On the one hand, the people who distribute leaks (and tweaked ROMs based off of those leaks) for free are taking risks by doing so, and they're doing it to help the community. But on the other, you have people who take those leaks, apply their own tweaks to them, and then charge for the completed product. Those guys are basically profiting from the work that others took a risk in releasing to the public, which is ridiculous.
The best way to deal with it is to not simply not "donate" to people who pull such shenanigans.
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Its very important that we dont mention names, to avoid flaming.....but i know exactly who you are talking about in particular....

The trend started with kingklick and everyone was all up in arms about it
But eventually the rest of the developers followed and now its OK for them and they accept it LOL hypocrites
This is another reason making my decision on NS much easier
Some real development will be underway i miss my N1 XDA support back in the day
Not that i dont appreciate what others have done here just most of it wasn't my cup of tea with exception of Eugene's work
But he left for a reasonable reason too much BS but his work is still freely available

It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world eventually if you want something ahead of everyone else you gotta pony up the cash I went to a street fair once at the gate was a booth labeled donations they didn't deny me access when I refused to pay but I didn't enjoy the full access everyone else did when they received theyre wrist bands that got them free drinks your not paying to get in your paying for the cause and the work and the time it takes to create something that millions can enjoy ......i wouldn't get to butt hurt about it its the way of the world be it in day to day life forums or whatever else you think it applies to just my opinion we're all entitled to them I suppose
V5 custom vibrant

I take back allot of what i said apparently some are still releasing roms here

willsnews said:
It would be nice to hear a devs take on this but on the other hand this could just start a huge ordeal I understand what you guys are saying but I don't think this thread is going to help any development at all in fact it may even be counter productive the dev group is growing for the vibrant but I wouldn't say there are enough devs to start pissing people off and making them lose interest in xda all together if its not one thing its another nothing is free in this world
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In terms of my opinion, and what im trying to say, the paragraph in bold in the OP highlights my exact problem. I understand the concept and the need for devs to ask for money in whatever form, and i have absolutely no issue with that. But thats what they are, PAYMENTS. The only thing im questioning is why they insist on calling them donations. They are not donations when they are in the format of a transaction.
do·na·tion noun \dō-ˈnā-shən\
Definition of DONATION
: the act or an instance of donating: as a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution b : a free contribution : gift
trans·ac·tion noun \tran-ˈzak-shən, tran(t)-ˈsak-\
Definition of TRANSACTION
1a : something transacted; especially : an exchange or transfer of goods, services, or funds <electronic transactions>
Theres just something about it that seems a bit unethical to me, almost like a bit of a marketing scam. "Donate" has a much friendlier, less threatening tone to it than "payment". Maybe theres a mindset in place that people will be more inclined to "donate" rather than "pay". Im just trying to figure out why they cant just call it like it is.
Regardless of how you may feel about it, theres no question that sometimes it feels like our "community" is faltering in favor of making money.
------------
In terms of the devs leaving XDA because of threads like this? i mean come on, we are talking about word definitions here...not insulting peoples families.....

Donation: ASK for CONTRIBUTIONS DURING development
Payment: REQUIRE COMPENSATION for COMPLETED product

I haven't ever seen a developer require payment for a complete product here on XDA. Some give early access to buggy ROMs and kernels, but that's it.

I don't. see anyone asking for a payment to get a full version of a rom. some gets it early when you donated but still the ones who didn't still gets the rom later. If that's how they want it to be then let it be.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Used to have "buy me a beer" links up at the most a couple of years ago. Seems there was more collaboration among devs like LucidRem who was super nice on G1 apps to SD. Was constantly being tweaked by seperate devs to get a better partition solution for example.
Don't blame me, blame my keyboard's autocorrection algorithm.

Any developer that does that is very clearly breaking the law. They could be very easily sued by anyone that cared.

Haha, even if that's true, which I don't think it is.....i think that would be taking things just a tad too far
Sent from my pocket rocket!

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!
I have been on with Android since Day 1. XDA and the developers who come here are the only reason I am so passionate about my phone and android. Without these 2 things a large part of my "hobby" would be severely hampered.
Developers do a tremendous amount for us. Can you imagine being on JI6 right now? I feel that they get barely anything in donations.... if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them.
Cause you know what....
When developers are happy.... WE are all happy!!!
I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???
PS, both R14 and Nero_Beta are very tasty... can't wait to get my hands on Axura 2.2 soon also.

maybe we should point out who the REAL developers are, and who are the wannabe's like people that take others work and just theme it.
Maybe just maybe then, these people that are rushing to hand over fists of money would donate to the people that actually put things out, and not the winzip blender wannabe's.
I "had" respect for some of these people until I first hand decompiled their rom to find out it wasn't there's at all. Adding a theme and transitions to Windows, does not make it mine.. how hard can that be to understand?

s15274n said:
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!I mean come on, they release them to the public anyway.... is it okay for you to whine about not getting something sooner, that you had no part in creating/making.... what gives YOU the right???.
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well i really hope youre not referring to me......i have a good paying a job and if i really wanted to pay for a ROM i would, but i dont......check my signature, i AM still runnning JI6, i dont use Macnut or Obsidian (neither ever required donations). I am speaking purely based on observation, not personal experience.
I mean if i was stuck stuck with JI6 forever, i wouldnt be thatdisappointed, because i have my phone setup exactly how i want it. Im not a fan of leaked ROMs, never have been. So i wont be waiting up all night waiting for Nero to go public either.
Please dont confuse me for one of those crybabies who just HAS to get their greedy fingers on the newest ROM right away just to be with the "in-crowd"...thats not what im about
s15274n said:
if this is a method for them to beta with a small group and reward those who support them/him, than I think they should take advanatage of that... and if it leads to developers earning a bit more than they would normally, awesome for them
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please dont misunderstand me, you have to read carefully what im trying to say....i have absolutely NO ISSUE with devs receiving money....none. they often deserve it. i just dont like the way the concept of "donating" is presented sometimes. The way you outlined it ^^ is a great way of wording the way it SHOULD be appraoched....unfortunately it isnt always approached that way, and THOSE are the instances im referring to in my OP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License
This issue is that a custom ROM is built upon the work of thousands of other people that all licensed their work under the GPL because they wanted to it to be used that way. When someone takes their work and sells it, they are expressly misusing the work of others.
I think its fantastic that people are willing to put their time into developing ROMs, but at the same time it's very disrespectful and illegal to not follow the wishes of the people whose work the ROMs are built on. Ultimately, ROMs are very, very minor tweaks to what has been the result of almost twenty years and millions of man hours of work. If you want to be a part of that, that's great, but you have to play by the rules. After all, those rules are what made ROM development possible.

I can understand why they do it. Most people don't know how many hours go into just developing a theme let a long a full rom. So I understand them wanting to make some money for their time, but I also do agree with people who think they should not have a donation requirement to download, they should label it as a pay to download / theme or rom.
Here is an example of why I think devs do a required donation:
Here is the Nexus Theme I made (Did not ask for donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=860198
To date this has had: 318 downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $0
Time Spent making it: 10+ Hrs
Here is the Frobuntu theme I made (Asked for Donations): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=846285
To date this has had: 333 Downloads
Amount of donations recieved: $20
Time Spent Making it: 20+ hrs
So I can see why they do this. It makes a difference when you ask for the donations, but... again there should not be a required donation. That is called "selling" your rom/theme. They could do it the way I did the Frobuntu rom where I "Highly Suggested" a donation amount in big letters in the header of the post, but still gave it away to those who cannot pay.
Just my two cents. I would never flame or look down upon a dev for choosing to require a donation, that is their decision. I just choose not to do that myself.

No offense but most custom roms have a couple issues, needing to be fixed in the next release, meaning in a few days your gonna have to flash again, then the cycle continues, another bug so needing a new release... But the new release isn't faster, better or any cooler than the release before...lol
I'm on stock jk6 with my tweaks, my mods, and my setup, I was on customs for a bit, but all this donation crap has made me not wanting to try custom roms from anyone here, especially with all the drama :d
Needless to say I've never donated anything other than to xda itself..... I would never give my money to people just doing this for fun just like I do.... Donate to me then lol...
Anyways, id advise against donating to get a early release that ain't any better than the one before....lol
All I can say is suckeeeeers... Sorry but true, you have been hustled...
P.s. Anyone with a donate to me sign in their sig or whatever are completely retarded imo..... Lol

Devs that quit: who's to blame?

The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.

if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.

xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
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I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.

I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.

It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02

No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.

ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...

I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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Click to collapse
/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
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McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj

Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )

i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock

If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master

Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"

Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY

I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
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Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
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If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).

i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be

About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.

reinstatement of developer status

to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta rim for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u claim they are regonised developers then u as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.

... +1 ... it's a shame ...

+1 but there is usually more to these stories than appears.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium

Maybe it has something to do with Dorimanx calling the kernal his own..!
Everyone uses things created by others but give credit.
But who am I to say maybe it is completely his own.
I did like his roms though..

shanman-2 said:
Maybe it has something to do with Dorimanx calling the kernal his own..!
Everyone uses things created by others but give credit.
But who am I to say maybe it is completely his own.
I did like his roms though..
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all kernel devs do same u dont see teds+gingers+coles3.1.1kernel just the name of who publishes kernel and compiles it together not the name of devs who solved and wrote code for different snippits used in kernel yet they still keep dev status and quite frankly a lot of those devs can be quite obnoxious, rude and contempious and not answer questions unlike dorimanx who always answers and tries to solve problems for us.
UNLIKE THE MODERATORS WHO DEEM THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO ANSWER ANYTHING AND NOW SEEM TO BE A LAW ONTO THEMSELVES!!!!!!

maddoc1007 said:
to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 (someone) who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 (everyone) that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta (built a)rim (rom) for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles (Google's) and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u (you) claim they are regonised developers then u (you) as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.
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Really? Well... What if I told you why it was removed. There is more to life than the HD2 forum, and in this case, there were issues in the Galaxy S 2 forum, pertaining to making unfounded and false allegations against another developer.
At XDA we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title. In this case, going around making false (and very serious) allegations against other developers is NOT acceptable. For this reason it was revoked, although a user subject to this can appeal and it will be dealt with suitably.

gazzacbr said:
+1 but there is usually more to these stories than appears.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium
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Correct.

maddoc1007 said:
all kernel devs do same u dont see teds+gingers+coles3.1.1kernel just the name of who publishes kernel and compiles it together not the name of devs who solved and wrote code for different snippits used in kernel yet they still keep dev status and quite frankly a lot of those devs can be quite obnoxious, rude and contempious and not answer questions unlike dorimanx who always answers and tries to solve problems for us.
UNLIKE THE MODERATORS WHO DEEM THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO ANSWER ANYTHING AND NOW SEEM TO BE A LAW ONTO THEMSELVES!!!!!!
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Click to collapse
May I ask how we are a law unto ourselves? We do answer to you (reply within 24 hours to your question is pretty good going), and I have explained the circumstances above.

pulser_g2 said:
Really? Well... What if I told you why it was removed. There is more to life than the HD2 forum, and in this case, there were issues in the Galaxy S 2 forum, pertaining to making unfounded and false allegations against another developer.
At XDA we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title. In this case, going around making false (and very serious) allegations against other developers is NOT acceptable. For this reason it was revoked, although a user subject to this can appeal and it will be dealt with suitably.
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So, from what I gather from both your reply, and this from dorimanx:
"""there was an small war with one more dev.
i was wrong about my clame.
and got insolted many time, from him and his friends, i have apologise, after i found i was wrong, but my title just removed"""
is that he said something in the wrong, then the person he wrongly called out, instead of solving the issue reasonably both him and his friends laid down a **** storm of insults and what-not (I assume here there was equally insulting return-fire), after finding out he was in the wrong, he apologized, but his title was still removed...
am I correct in assuming that none of the persons involved on the other side even got warning? (after-all, I got a warning because someone said something was not possible many times and I not-so-polity told them to bugger off... and then a week later what I requested was posted in the developer section....)
also can I assume that he can appeal his title revocation? he states after-all he did apologize, and he is after-all ACTUALLY a developer with much praise and admiration for his works...
Why not a warning instead of title pull? or temp ban or something? Telling a dev he isnt a dev is a bit more then insulting if you ask me...
*This is going on just what you both have said, if you wished to add more information to the pot, or point out the fiasco for others to read to understand better, I am all for it, but what I have written above is just from my reading both your and his statements on the subject... and despite the "you weren't involved, dont say anything" montra that presents itself when I choose to post this, I have long thought he deserved his Dev title... (especially since hes been given it once before... even though that was a community wide mistake)

Hammerfest said:
So, from what I gather from both your reply, and this from dorimanx:
"""there was an small war with one more dev.
i was wrong about my clame.
and got insolted many time, from him and his friends, i have apologise, after i found i was wrong, but my title just removed"""
is that he said something in the wrong, then the person he wrongly called out, instead of solving the issue reasonably both him and his friends laid down a **** storm of insults and what-not (I assume here there was equally insulting return-fire), after finding out he was in the wrong, he apologized, but his title was still removed...
am I correct in assuming that none of the persons involved on the other side even got warning? (after-all, I got a warning because someone said something was not possible many times and I not-so-polity told them to bugger off... and then a week later what I requested was posted in the developer section....)
also can I assume that he can appeal his title revocation? he states after-all he did apologize, and he is after-all ACTUALLY a developer with much praise and admiration for his works...
Why not a warning instead of title pull? or temp ban or something? Telling a dev he isnt a dev is a bit more then insulting if you ask me...
*This is going on just what you both have said, if you wished to add more information to the pot, or point out the fiasco for others to read to understand better, I am all for it, but what I have written above is just from my reading both your and his statements ont he subject....
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There's more to the issue than that.
In order to properly investigate the claim, I did what any developer would do upon seeing that claim - take the original sources he made the allegation against, and then rebuild them from scratch, testing ONLY the change alleged to cause the issues.
This is a fundamental and basic step, and it demonstrated there was no issue with the sources being posted by the other developer.
I'd ask you, is it acceptable to go around making inflammatory remarks and comments against another developer, ACCUSING them of breaking the GPL (when in fact they are adhering to it beyond what is even required, pushing commits that are not released yet)? What if someone did that to your preferred developer? Wouldn't this be a thread of "OMG STRIP HIM OF HIS TITLE, HE INSULTED OUR FAVOURITE DEV"?
There was ample chance given to resolve the issue amicably, and the accusatory tone used against another developer was not acceptable. Furthermore, missing out on fundamental steps such as checking your own allegations out fully (by testing with clean, unmodified builds) is quite fundamental.
I did say he can appeal it, and he has contacted me with regard to that, and it will be dealt with in due course.
I'm surprised at you asking about that though - would you rather we temp ban him? I somehow don't think many people would agree with you.
Finally on regard to "telling a dev he isn't a dev", that is not what RD is about - RD is about the best examples of professional standard developers on XDA. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer. It's a privilege, not a right. And not every developer has it (many do not wish to have it, and have declined to apply even when suggested). It's something that's open to apply for, but people must be at the required level of skills and act in the right manner. If either of these changes, then their status can be reviewed.

re re reinstatement of dev to dorimanx
i have read the explanation from pulser but am somewhat dismayed by his reply shots were fired it seems from both sides, rude or derogatory they may have been but an apology was issued by dorimanx. my amusement stems from why when other devs on xda rant and rave at members for asking questions and call them stupid or thick and other inflamatory remarks you do not take their dev status from them
A we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title.
your words above but yet iv not seen u or other moderators reprimanding those devs or taking their titles of them.
. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer.
more of your words but i have seen from thdeads on here the way ordinary decent people on here are treated and disrespected maybe their english is not too good or they are new and dont know their way around xda or maybe a threas is a few hundred pages long and they cant find what they are looking for and they ask a question. then lo and behold a dev tells them they are 2 stupid to look or too ignorant to.find it themselves or other worse remarks. is that not being disrespctful and NOT FOLLOWING YOUR CODE OF CONDUCT. yet ye take no action against them? as a result of the way people are insulted on here iv seen in threads where membera have said that they are leaving xda over the insults to them. so where were the moderators then and. why werent those devs titles taken??. read through your dev threads and you will see plenty of examples of this.
therefore it is not an even playing field for members here on xda and os if you want to throw me off xda so be it but until you clean up your act on xda you cant make 1 law for some and another law for others

pulser_g2 said:
There's more to the issue than that.
In order to properly investigate the claim, I did what any developer would do upon seeing that claim - take the original sources he made the allegation against, and then rebuild them from scratch, testing ONLY the change alleged to cause the issues.
This is a fundamental and basic step, and it demonstrated there was no issue with the sources being posted by the other developer.
1 ) I'd ask you, is it acceptable to go around making inflammatory remarks and comments against another developer, ACCUSING them of breaking the GPL (when in fact they are adhering to it beyond what is even required, pushing commits that are not released yet)? What if someone did that to your preferred developer? Wouldn't this be a thread of "OMG STRIP HIM OF HIS TITLE, HE INSULTED OUR FAVOURITE DEV"?
There was ample chance given to resolve the issue amicably, and the accusatory tone used against another developer was not acceptable. Furthermore, missing out on fundamental steps such as checking your own allegations out fully (by testing with clean, unmodified builds) is quite fundamental.
I did say he can appeal it, and he has contacted me with regard to that, and it will be dealt with in due course.
2 ) I'm surprised at you asking about that though - would you rather we temp ban him? I somehow don't think many people would agree with you.
Finally on regard to "telling a dev he isn't a dev", that is not what RD is about - RD is about the best examples of professional standard developers on XDA. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer. It's a privilege, not a right. And not every developer has it (many do not wish to have it, and have declined to apply even when suggested). It's something that's open to apply for, but people must be at the required level of skills and act in the right manner. If either of these changes, then their status can be reviewed.
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1: TBQH, if a dev came into the dev thread for dori's HD2, and pulled the same thing, and then WE as users and HIM as a developer played the whole two year old fighting game, you can bet your arse I would expect you to put everyone on "time-out" that fired off "conduct not inkeeping" with the expected conduct of the open source community (as you put it), dori and any of us users that participated as well! Additionally, I wouldn't request a title be stripped, because to the users of XDA as a whole, RD might as well just be D, and lets face it, I see far more users here then developers. However as I said, even if one was at fault, if both sides where participating in the argument and insults and "bad conduct", I MYSELF would still punish both sides, even a warning is still more tactful then removal of a title and normally a warning shunts people before it would warrant a ban or title revocation.
2: It was a suggestion made "in passing", and sometimes, people need a few days or even a week to cool down, but your right, not many people would agree with me, but it was throwing out something other then removing a title that IMHO at least, has been deserved by dori for the longest time...
Im not ignoring the rest of your comment btw, I am not a developer, but I am a user and a PC Builder/Tech both as a hobby and a job, and I advocate "full wipes" or "clean testing environments" whenever I play with new rom's, fix issues on customers computers, or even encounter error's myself, so I see the fault in calling out an issue, prior to a "scrub test" as I like to call it myself, and i kinda went into the RD issue in 1: so ill leave it at that
maddoc1007 said:
i have read the explanation from pulser but am somewhat dismayed by his reply shots were fired it seems from both sides, rude or derogatory they may have been but an apology was issued by dorimanx. my amusement stems from why when other devs on xda rant and rave at members for asking questions and call them stupid or thick and other inflamatory remarks you do not take their dev status from them
A we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title.
your words above but yet iv not seen u or other moderators reprimanding those devs or taking their titles of them.
. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer.
more of your words but i have seen from thdeads on here the way ordinary decent people on here are treated and disrespected maybe their english is not too good or they are new and dont know their way around xda or maybe a threas is a few hundred pages long and they cant find what they are looking for and they ask a question. then lo and behold a dev tells them they are 2 stupid to look or too ignorant to.find it themselves or other worse remarks. is that not being disrespctful and NOT FOLLOWING YOUR CODE OF CONDUCT. yet ye take no action against them? as a result of the way people are insulted on here iv seen in threads where membera have said that they are leaving xda over the insults to them. so where were the moderators then and. why werent those devs titles taken??. read through your dev threads and you will see plenty of examples of this.
therefore it is not an even playing field for members here on xda and os if you want to throw me off xda so be it but until you clean up your act on xda you cant make 1 law for some and another law for others
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you make a good point, and I hope the mod reads it, I have seen many dev's for rom's and mods who definitely don't follow any "code of conduct" I have ever heard of, but I have NEVER (and I stress this in only my experience as a User of but a few ROM's) seen a user have his/hers title revoked, and I used to follow links and frequently browse XDA before I registered...
Now in saying that, its possible its due to a lack of "report"ing occurring, and with the latest fiasco regarding the E3D people have become "report" crazy and if it proves true, I should expect to see more "RD" and other "higher then senior member" accounts demoted
Ive noted before, Ill note again, I "assume" things being ok with making an ass out of myself, its part of the learning process, and I have to thank the mod for replying to me/us and taking the time to help us out as supporters of the user turned dev demoted user instead of outright closing the thread. Oh, and I am just a USER... dont taze me bro... (im a bit drunk, forgive me, I just had to...)

The biggest part of being a big open source community, or any community for that matter, is collaborating and the ability to tolerate mistakes. If nobody makes mistakes than the community is not evolving since there is nobody participating.
That being said, the bad blood which came across both Dorimanx and the other developer is a part of an active community, and it has been proven to be the only way somebody can truly learn; this is the main reason you have authority (moderators) present.
IMO stripping one user from his title but leaving the other is unfair prejudice, its like saying, "you were both wrong in your act, but he was wrong-er".
As a moderator, I suggest you ask yourself what is your message to the community, do you want more people participating but in a mannered, polite way or do you want people being afraid to challenge somebody?
As I see it, if you came here to learn, you ought to make mistakes; its a collaborative effort not a memorial for those who already know "everything" and came here to boost their ego, or am I wrong?

As a Retired Senior Mod and since i was involved in Dorinmax issue, i could say more about but this will be not fair against XDA, period.
XDA have rules and you are expected to follow them even if you are ERd, RD, RT, RC or a Mod, you cannot use a pubblic thread to make accuses, troll or to partecipate in a flaming war hence you will be punished with infraction points and/or ban and this happened in that case but yet i disagree with easy titles revoking and as said here, many other so called devs should be without the title.
The moral of the story is: When you have a problem or if you see any issue, contact you Forum Specific Moderator or any Senior Moderator, these people are doing a great job and they are always ready to help or to suggest how to address the problem in the better way.

maddoc1007 said:
to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta rim for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u claim they are regonised developers then u as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.
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Thanks man, you have stirred a bit o' thought.......
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium

Looking again at this thread..do not politics come into everything that's worth talking about!
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium

shanman-2 said:
Looking again at this thread..do not politics come into everything that's worth talking about!
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium
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thats the crux of it all no wonder so many great developers have left xda!!

Such is life in the virtual world and the real world ta boot .. .LOL,
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium