OpenSource drivers - Hero CDMA General

I can't believe how much HTC is screwing us. Ok, I guess I totally get it. I wrote a post about this but I wanted to get everyone's opinion.
Does anyone else want HTC to opensource the drivers for the Hero? I think it would breath new life into the phone and send a sign that HTC supports their hardcore users.

giovannizero said:
I can't believe how much HTC is screwing us. Ok, I guess I totally get it. I wrote a post about this but I wanted to get everyone's opinion.
Does anyone else want HTC to opensource the drivers for the Hero? I think it would breath new life into the phone and send a sign that HTC supports their hardcore users.
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Click to collapse
i completely agree. the hero has only been out 8 months and they just completely abandoned it. i vote... hell yes!!

cp0020 said:
the hero has only been out 8 months and they just completely abandoned it.
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HTC only writes the software that Sprint pays it to write. All direction and control of development on single-carrier devices comes from that carrier. Its a business decision, basic cost/benefit analysis. There's not enough financial incentive for Sprint to pay for any more updates to the Hero. If people would stop shelling out cash for the latest and greatest (Evo 4G) each time it comes out and stop tolerating oppressive contracts with ETF fees, then devices wouldn't get abandoned so quickly.

cmccracken said:
HTC only writes the software that Sprint pays it to write. All direction and control of development on single-carrier devices comes from that carrier. Its a business decision, basic cost/benefit analysis. There's not enough financial incentive for Sprint to pay for any more updates to the Hero.
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glad your on board.....

cp0020 said:
glad your on board.....
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Its irrelevant if people think HTC should or should not "opensource the drivers". Since HTC uses a monolithic kernel in the Hero (except for the wifi), they are required to release the source code for all components of the shipping kernel (including all "drivers") under terms of the GPL. Even if they do so, it will be the code for the kernel used in the 2.1 Android release, not for the kernel in the 2.2 release. It may still be useful, but is not a guaranteed slam dunk.
They have repeatedly chosen to stall and delay the source code release process and violate the copyright policy on the software they are using for their devices. Until an actual author of Linux kernel code sues them for violating his/her intellectual property's copyright, they will likely continue to do this. If you have a problem with the way they do business, stop giving them money. They've been doing this since far before the Hero was released.
My original comment was in response to the "hero has only been out 8 months and they just completely abandoned it" comment. I'll add a quotation before it for context.

cmccracken said:
Its irrelevant if people think HTC should or should not "opensource the drivers". Since HTC uses a monolithic kernel in the Hero (except for the wifi), they are required to release the source code for all components of the shipping kernel (including all "drivers") under terms of the GPL. Even if they do so, it will be the code for the kernel used in the 2.1 Android release, not for the kernel in the 2.2 release. It may still be useful, but is not a guaranteed slam dunk.
They have repeatedly chosen to stall and delay the source code release process and violate the copyright policy on the software they are using for their devices. Until an actual author of Linux kernel code sues them for violating his/her intellectual property's copyright, they will likely continue to do this. If you have a problem with the way they do business, stop giving them money. They've been doing this since far before the Hero was released.
My original comment was in response to the "hero has only been out 8 months and they just completely abandoned it" comment. I'll add a quotation before it for context.
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just letting you know i wasnt trying to be a smartass before. sorry if it came off like that. your probably right but we can still dream lol

cp0020 said:
just letting you know i wasnt trying to be a smartass before. sorry if it came off like that. your probably right but we can still dream lol
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You were being a smart-ass, but I wasn't offended. I would have done the same.

cmccracken said:
You were being a smart-ass, but I wasn't offended. I would have done the same.
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Lol now that were best friends again let me buy you a beer lolol
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

cmccracken said:
Its irrelevant if people think HTC should or should not "opensource the drivers". Since HTC uses a monolithic kernel in the Hero (except for the wifi), they are required to release the source code for all components of the shipping kernel (including all "drivers") under terms of the GPL. Even if they do so, it will be the code for the kernel used in the 2.1 Android release, not for the kernel in the 2.2 release. It may still be useful, but is not a guaranteed slam dunk.
They have repeatedly chosen to stall and delay the source code release process and violate the copyright policy on the software they are using for their devices. Until an actual author of Linux kernel code sues them for violating his/her intellectual property's copyright, they will likely continue to do this. If you have a problem with the way they do business, stop giving them money. They've been doing this since far before the Hero was released.
My original comment was in response to the "hero has only been out 8 months and they just completely abandoned it" comment. I'll add a quotation before it for context.
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Click to collapse
That's not true at all. Drivers do not have to be open source. Drivers do not have to be released under the GPL just because the kernel is released under the GPL, if they did, then why are so many linux drivers just binary blobs and not source?

liquidtenmillion said:
That's not true at all. Drivers do not have to be open source. Drivers do not have to be released under the GPL just because the kernel is released under the GPL, if they did, then why are so many linux drivers just binary blobs and not source?
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You're thinking of drivers that are distributed via loadable kernel modules. On the Hero, there is only one module (wlan.ko, for the wifi chipset). Everything else is built into the GPL'ed kernel. The entire kernel from GPL sources is the "binary blob" distributed by HTC.

liquidtenmillion said:
That's not true at all. Drivers do not have to be open source. Drivers do not have to be released under the GPL just because the kernel is released under the GPL, if they did, then why are so many linux drivers just binary blobs and not source?
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Click to collapse
The justification is that the HTC drivers are included in a monolithic compilation of the kernel and therefore fall under the GPL as a modification to the kernel. The binary blobs you are referring to are not distributing a modified kernel with the drivers such as HTC did, therefore do not fall under GPL. You do not have to distribute your code if you work alongside GPL software, only if you modify it.

I posted up your blog post on digg, link.
Also I tweeted a link to the article, link; please retweet.

gu1dry said:
I posted up your blog post on digg, link.
Also I tweeted a link to the article, link; please retweet.
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Click to collapse
Retweet'd because I agree that they should be open, but I am not entirely inclined to believe they are required to open the drivers. Similar to their power control software, its their code - it just lives next door to the kernel.
I am however really ticked that they haven't released Kernel Code even though they have obviously used that...they where quick with Legend and Desire.
I know we already have "Kernel Code that works" from the eris - but it's still not OURS and toast had to do a hell of a lot of work to get that. Work that shouldn't have even needed to be done. Compiled Code ships...source should ship as well.

Retweet'd because I agree that they should be open, but I am not entirely inclined to believe they are required to open the drivers. Similar to their power control software, its their code - it just lives next door to the kernel.
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Click to collapse
No, it would live "next door" to the kernel if they were .ko loadable kernel modules. HTC compiled it straight into the kernel. Thus, under GPL2, they *are* part of the kernel, and therefore must be released as open source as well.
.ko binary drivers were a practical real-world compromise to allow proprietary binaries to coexist without screwing up the efforts of others to independently build their own kernels that make use of them. That's the key contention here. A .ko module allows you to treat it as a black box with a well-defined interface, and rewrite everything else around it. A monolithic binary blob is the software equivalent of a circuit board with bare, carrier-free chips soldered directly to it, then sealed in a blob of epoxy like a big IC that can't be meaningfully modified without breaking the whole thing.

Related

Google did it again.earth android 2.1 only

How can they do this in a time when most phones still come out with 1.x?
http://bit.ly/9ArPbS ' download google earth
can anybody look into this and either build a wrapper for the new libraries so that this app can also run on 1.6 or just rebuild the app?
its the second time after google buzz I ultimately wish google to be seen on google moon only. better: google sky maps
...
go look into this please
well, that sucks : (
just to add a note i cant get it to open or run on v2.1 of Cannon's build... not sure whats up? its 2.1 firmware, im guessing its 3D graphic 'something' not running or working correctly
will this work on "[ROM] KiNgxKxlicK AOSP 2.1 [v1.6.1]" ?
I believe it runs on the 3d acceleration drivers which all the 2.1 builds for 32A & 32B phone don't have yet. Tmobile should be getting an update to 2.1 hopefully within 2 months. maybe once HTC releases the driver then all 2.XX roms will work better with the graphics.
Anku13 said:
will this work on "[ROM] KiNgxKxlicK AOSP 2.1 [v1.6.1]" ?
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Click to collapse
Give it a try and let us know.
*sigh* Why won't HTC open source the drivers?
Z҉A҉L҉G҉O̚̕̚ said:
*sigh* Why won't HTC open source the drivers?
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because HTC probably doesn't make them...it's the hardware manufacturer that does..
boostnek9 said:
because HTC probably doesn't make them...it's the hardware manufacturer that does..
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That does seem logical.
This -DOES NOT- work on any 32A/B Android 2.1 builds. Sorry =/
domenukk said:
How can they do this in a time when most phones still come out with 1.x?
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Ah in short its marketing. By springs end 1.anything will be dead and everything even G1s will be on a 2.something. Add to that the forward creep of you/us feeling our phones are obsolete and buying a new one and there you have it.
Like em or not, apple google all of em are publicly traded companies all about the $$$$ wrapped up in fun/friendly packaging.
boostnek9 said:
because HTC probably doesn't make them...it's the hardware manufacturer that does..
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Click to collapse
Umm... HTC is the hardware manufacturer, and they do make them. The reasons HTC dones't release drivers as open source are known only to them. We can only guess, but here are some good ones:
They don't have to. The hardware drivers, unlike the kernel and Android OS itself, do not fall under Apache license, and aren't required to be distributed as open source.
They don't want to. HTC builds handsets for other companies as well, and I'm sure want to protect their trade secrets. Open-source drivers can allow others to reverse-engineer the inner workings of the hardware, and possibly bypass HTC altogether.
No workie on xROM.
Chahk said:
Umm...
[*]They don't have to. The hardware drivers, unlike the kernel and Android OS itself, do not fall under Apache license, and aren't required to be distributed as open source.
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Click to collapse
You've got your licenses confused.
The APACHE LICENSE *does* allow things to be closed up.
It is the GPL that demands source be made available.
The KERNEL (and by extension, kernel level hardware drivers) is under GPL. Note that not all drivers need be kernel mods.
The majority of Android is under APACHE LICENSE, and can, therefore, be distributed as CLOSED BINARY without any obligation to provide source.
lbcoder said:
The majority of Android is under APACHE LICENSE, and can, therefore, be distributed as CLOSED BINARY without any obligation to provide source.
The KERNEL (and by extension, kernel level hardware drivers) is under GPL.
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Click to collapse
I stand corrected.
Regardless of this fact though, they have not yet released Eclair compatible video drivers for Dream/Magic - closed sourced or otherwise. Hence the problem for all current G1/MT3G Eclair ports, and any apps that require 3D acceleration.
Chahk said:
they have not yet released Eclair compatible video drivers for Dream/Magic - closed sourced or otherwise.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=637350
Interesting, in the least....
Anyone know if google will release google earth for G1 or should we just forget it?
lagoausente said:
Anyone know if google will release google earth for G1 or should we just forget it?
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Click to collapse
If by that you mean "for android 1.6", the answer is "its anyone's guess".
More simply though, they already have released a version compatible with 2.1, so as long as you are able to run android 2.1 on your ***DREAM*** (that is what the device actually is...), then at worst, you need to trick a few checks in your build.prop to allow it.
lbcoder said:
If by that you mean "for android 1.6", the answer is "its anyone's guess".
More simply though, they already have released a version compatible with 2.1, so as long as you are able to run android 2.1 on your ***DREAM*** (that is what the device actually is...), then at worst, you need to trick a few checks in your build.prop to allow it.
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Click to collapse
My searching gived me no one could run it yet, I'm wrong?
lagoausente said:
My searching gived me no one could run it yet, I'm wrong?
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Click to collapse
You obviously didn't read enough....
OPENGL DRIVERS!!!!

Honeycomb breaks GPL Law

I just had to start a thread on this issue because I think it's surprising more people aren't angry at Google for taking an 'open', GPL licensed (at the very least the kernel) set of code (Honeycomb) and not releasing it to the public in the form of source code. Not only is it completely NOT in the spirit of open source, but in fact may even be illegal (although I have not done quite enough research to say exactly what is and isn't GPL, I know the kernel IS GPL, the OS itself I am GUESSING is GPL as they have claimed it to be open source). I understand that certain APPLICATIONS are not open source (market, youtube, gmail, etc) but if the operating system is supposed to be open source (and/or GPL) why are more people not outraged that they will not release it?
I understand they want to prevent every fly-by-night operation from building garbage tablets that "cheapen" the name of android tablets, but for better or worse that's what android is, and it's what makes android great. If you just want to get your feet wet, you should be able to take a cheap nook color and load up honeycomb. If you're not happy with the performance, you can go buy a nice xoom or transformer.
I know we all love android, and its open source nature, but just because we hate apple/M$ doesn't mean we have to love every action google takes.
compuw22c said:
If you just want to get your feet wet, you should be able to take a cheap nook color and load up honeycomb.
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Click to collapse
the nook has honeycomb.
austin420 said:
the nook has honeycomb.
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Based on the sdk.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
lynyrd65 said:
Based on the sdk.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
True, prerelease sdk too. Personally, I think this may be what pushed Google to do what they did. That or Motorola freaking out saying "You PROMISED we'd be first, we invested time and energy here you better do something about this". Android was supposed to be "The People's OS". Unfortunately things seem to be changing hands and its becoming more about keeping carriers and manufacturers happy. Not necessary I say. Pandora's box has been opened, no matter what google does, carriers and manufacturers will still use Android. To stop carrying android phones would be suicide on their part. Give us all root access as part of stock android and be done with it!
Sent from my pocket rocket
compuw22c said:
I just had to start a thread on this issue because I think it's surprising more people aren't angry at Google for taking an 'open', GPL licensed (at the very least the kernel) set of code (Honeycomb) and not releasing it to the public in the form of source code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are quite a few folks who are unhappy with Google for their decision not to release Honeycomb platform sources, and there's a good debate there. However, there's nothing unlawful about Google's actions.
First, the majority of Android source code isn't GPL licensed, but rather Apache License v2.0, which does not require publication of modified sources. This is why Samsung hasn't (fully) released sources for the Epic's Android platform code, which is much more problematic for us.
Second, AOSP is the sole copyright owner of much of the Android platform code. This enables them to release and relicense that source code however they wish, even if the code were nominally GPL licensed (although it's Apache).
Third, the portions of Honeycomb that are GPL licensed, to which AOSP is not the sole copyright owner, have been publically released. However, this code is mostly comprised of the Linux kernel and a few underyling libraries. In other words, it isn't the interesting/useful part of Honeycomb.
Furthermore, just to clarify, the GPL does not require source code to be published publicly, just that it be made available to those who legitimately acquite the binary code, i.e., who actually purchase Honeycomb tablets. That said, public publication of that code is often the easiest/most efficient method of making it available to tablet owners.
Edit: The copyright of much of the Android sources are claimed by "The Android Open Source Project", which is the "overseeing" organization Google established. I'm not sure what the policies of code licensing are among Google and other AOSP partners, but the point is that AOSP as the copyright owner is not bound by the existing license for that code.
mkasick said:
First, the majority of Android source code isn't GPL licensed, but rather Apache License v2.0, which does not require publication of modified sources.
Third, the portions of Honeycomb that are GPL licensed, to which AOSP is not the sole copyright owner, have been publically released.
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Click to collapse
Beat me to it, but I figured I'd re-quote you with a shortened version in bold.
It's been long known. Android is OPEN SOURCE (Apache). It is not FREE SOURCE (GPL).
Further, I think the author misunderstands what the linux kernel is. You can't really do much with it alone, but it is a powerful piece. On a train, it's like the transmission that connects the engine to the wheels of the train, but you still need the body and the train tracks to go anywhere (Android).
jnadke said:
Beat me to it, but I figured I'd re-quote you with a shortened version in bold.
It's been long known. Android is OPEN SOURCE (Apache). It is not FREE SOURCE (GPL).
Further, I think the author misunderstands what the linux kernel is. You can't really do much with it alone, but it is a powerful piece. On a train, it's like the transmission that connects the engine to the wheels of the train, but you still need the body and the train tracks to go anywhere (Android).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, I do understand what a kernel is and what it does (small main-brain controller of hardware, usually with a few modules built into it). I've recompiled mine on my media server a few times. I do see your point though, you're right, not much you can do with it all by itself for sure.
I also understand that they aren't breaking the law, I guess I just thought part of the gpl was that to use gpl software in a project, that project must also comply (which I now understand is false). Always assumed that to be the reason Apple uses a UNIX kernel rather than a LINUX kernel for osx.
So I guess they do have a right to do what they're doing, but the idealist in me still wishes they'd do the right thing...
Anyone wanna make a Ubuntu port to phones...complete with dialer, launcher, dalvik vm (for running android apps)? j/k
Sent from my pocket rocket
mkasick said:
There are quite a few folks who are unhappy with Google for their decision not to release Honeycomb platform sources, and there's a good debate there. However, there's nothing unlawful about Google's actions.
First, the majority of Android source code isn't GPL licensed, but rather Apache License v2.0, which does not require publication of modified sources. This is why Samsung hasn't (fully) released sources for the Epic's Android platform code, which is much more problematic for us.
Second, AOSP is the sole copyright owner of much of the Android platform code. This enables them to release and relicense that source code however they wish, even if the code were nominally GPL licensed (although it's Apache).
Third, the portions of Honeycomb that are GPL licensed, to which AOSP is not the sole copyright owner, have been publically released. However, this code is mostly comprised of the Linux kernel and a few underyling libraries. In other words, it isn't the interesting/useful part of Honeycomb.
Furthermore, just to clarify, the GPL does not require source code to be published publicly, just that it be made available to those who legitimately acquite the binary code, i.e., who actually purchase Honeycomb tablets. That said, public publication of that code is often the easiest/most efficient method of making it available to tablet owners.
Edit: The copyright of much of the Android sources are claimed by "The Android Open Source Project", which is the "overseeing" organization Google established. I'm not sure what the policies of code licensing are among Google and other AOSP partners, but the point is that AOSP as the copyright owner is not bound by the existing license for that code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said...
Help support autism awareness,it only takes 2 seconds to help make a difference...
http://picketfenceblogs.com/vote/3616

If Android is opensource, how can Google hold back Honeycomb Src?

I don't understand how if Android is Opensource and borrows code from Linux kernel and other OpenSource projects, how Google can legally hold back the honeycomb sourcecode?
I'm not really interested in Honeycomb source myself, nor the OS dev scene, but what I DO care about, is that some of my favorite apps are broken on my Tablet, and the developers all point the finger at Google, saying the flash API changed in Honeycomb, and they need the source to get it working.
The biggest broken apps for me are:
Opera Mobile 11
BBC iPlayer App
Opera even come out and tell us why Flash does not work on Opera Mobile 11 on Honeycomb:
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.opera.browser&feature=search_result
(What's New Tab)
"Flash not supported on Android 3.x due to Google not releasing necessary platform code"
"Open source" doesn't mean what you think it means.
The Linux kernel source is available under the GPLv2, this mean that is you ship a product you must provide the source, hence its the device manufacturers responsibility to give us the kernel source because it's them we buy the product from.
The Android framework and the Dalvik virtual machine are all available under an Apache licence, this allows anyone to take the source code and make a closed proprietary product and/or addition (Like Blur/Sense/Touchwiz) without this Android would not have caught on anywhere near as fast, but it also means that there is no requirement for future derivative products to have source code released. Even if the person doing that is Google.
All the API's that people _should_ be using are documented, the problem is that the products you mention are trying to mimic the native browser and use internal only method calls, if you step out of the approved API box then you have problems like this.
Why BBC iPlayer needs flash I don't know, all 3.1 tablets can play the flashhigh and flashhd (h.264) iPlayer streams natively I use get-iplayer and transfer the files to my Transformer for viewing and it works beautifully. I guess the Android app team are just lazy (or iPhone developers who don't know Android very well)
SilentMobius said:
The Android framework and the Dalvik virtual machine are all available under an Apache licence, this allows anyone to take the source code and make a closed proprietary product and/or addition (Like Blur/Sense/Touchwiz) without this Android would not have caught on anywhere near as fast, but it also means that there is no requirement for future derivative products to have source code released. Even if the person doing that is Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While this is true, it is not the real reason why Google can hold back the souce code. Google owns the copyright to DalVik and the Android platform. All contributions checked into the Android tree in the end have their copyright assigned to Google, regardless of who wrote them.
Because they own the copyright, they can do whatever the heck they want with the code, whenever they want. A copyright owner can not violate their own license, the license is only applicable for other people (who have no copyright to the code) to use it in their projects.
It's a subtle but very important distinction, because even if Android was all GPL they still would not have to be releasing any changes, because they own it.
The only part of the code Google is obligated to release, is their kernel changes (because it is Linux, which is GPL and they don't have the full copyright to) - and they do release these, always.
brunes said:
While this is true, it is not the real reason why Google can hold back the souce code. Google owns the copyright to DalVik and the Android platform. All contributions checked into the Android tree in the end have their copyright assigned to Google, regardless of who wrote them.
Because they own the copyright, they can do whatever the heck they want with the code, whenever they want. A copyright owner can not violate their own license, the license is only applicable for other people (who have no copyright to the code) to use it in their projects.
It's a subtle but very important distinction, because even if Android was all GPL they still would not have to be releasing any changes, because they own it.
The only part of the code Google is obligated to release, is their kernel changes (because it is Linux, which is GPL and they don't have the full copyright to) - and they do release these, always.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually no, just because they hold the rights doesn't mean they don't have to obey the license. It's just that Android is released under the Apache license which states that source must be released, but doesn't say WHEN the source has to be released, so they can hold it back as long as they deem fit.
seshmaru said:
Actually no, just because they hold the rights doesn't mean they don't have to obey the license. It's just that Android is released under the Apache license which states that source must be released, but doesn't say WHEN the source has to be released, so they can hold it back as long as they deem fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, no!
The ASL is not a copy left licence, so if Google so wish they do not have to release the source code for Honeycomb ever. In much the same way, I can download Android code from AOSP, create my own unique version, and I don't have to contribute my code back to AOSP, nor do I need to supply it to anyone on demand (with the exception of GPL'd kernel code of course).
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
Actually, no!
The ASL is not a copy left licence, so if Google so wish they do not have to release the source code for Honeycomb ever. In much the same way, I can download Android code from AOSP, create my own unique version, and I don't have to contribute my code back to AOSP, nor do I need to supply it to anyone on demand (with the exception of GPL'd kernel code of course).
Regards,
Dave
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Click to collapse
It's correct that it is not copyleft, and I was aware of this. All android releases however are released under the Apache license, which means the source for android itself has to be there, but any further modifications can use whatever they want. So yes google has to make Honeycomb open source eventually since it was released under the Apache license. Any derivatives of honeycomb wouldn't need to provide the source though.
seshmaru said:
So yes google has to make Honeycomb open source eventually since it was released under the Apache license. Any derivatives of honeycomb wouldn't need to provide the source though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they don't! That is the *whole* point. Honeycomb, at this point in time, is *not* an open source project because no source has been released, and the license of its antecedents is not a copyleft licence.
Honeycomb is, broadly speaking, a derivative of an earlier Android build (Froyo/Gingerbread whatever), and in this respect it is no different to say HTC's Sense builds which are also not open source.
Regards,
Dave
Hey ice cream will be open sourced. I don't think they want honeycomb plopped onto phones so they won't push it to aosp. Ice Cream will be a hybrid.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Have also wondered this myself.. but reading all of this has made me more confused than I was before.. who's right? :S
It's correct that Google hold the copyright for the bulk of the android framework, and as the copyright owners they are not subject to license terms, so they don't need to release anything but that only works for Google products. If the licence had been GPL then manufacturers would need to supply source with their products, not Google but ASUS/Samsung/HTC/etc/etc.
Short version: Google don't need to release anything, app developers shouldn't use internal APIs and rely on having platform source to make things work.
That said I want to change some of the browser behaviour and plumb back in handling for the .mkv file extension (because the container parsing is already in there) So I'd love to get my hands on the HC source, no matter how messy.
david279 said:
Hey ice cream will be open sourced. I don't think they want honeycomb plopped onto phones so they won't push it to aosp. Ice Cream will be a hybrid.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
And yet, it didn't seem to worry them when the first flurry of tablets came out with a phone (Froyo/GB) OS. Sorry, but to me, that excuse doesn't fly.
Divine_Madcat said:
And yet, it didn't seem to worry them when the first flurry of tablets came out with a phone (Froyo/GB) OS. Sorry, but to me, that excuse doesn't fly.
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Click to collapse
Actually they did worry, that's exactly why they made honeycomb you derptard and exactly the reason they aren't releasing the source to honeycomb.
And yes they don't want manufacturers shoehorning a tablet OS into a phone just so they can say OH OUR PHONE HAS ANDROID 3.0 INSTEAD OF 2.3.
Derptard... certainly a new one for the books. haha

Trolling on Samsung Infuse Forum...

And from a few posts I read that Samsung has not only released the source code for their roms, but have actually reached out to the developer community to help with custom rom development.
Must be nice...
Sent from my Dell Streak using Tapatalk
If you asked me a year ago what I thought of samsung I would have had some nasty words...But in the past year they have stepped up their game like none other. Not only have they resolved many of the issues they were having in the past (GPS), but they are updating their phones a lot quicker, and have some of the best displays in the business. I will most likely be getting an SGS2 once it's released in the states because it's not only the top android phone now but samsung has become a top notch android company (pretty much opposite of dell) and that's very important to a lasting positive experience with a phone.
That's a pretty refreshing turn of events and gives me new respect for Samsung also. It's about time that these companies realize that the modding community is the best friend they could ever have in many ways.
Supporting grass roots innovation is always a good thing!
I'll buy a Samsung device if they open up the driver and kernel to the community like that. Definitely a plus.
Something interesting I read recently somewhere else (can't remember now, might have been Reg Hardware), in order to be GPLv2 compliant (as Android is released as), point 3 of the license states that ALL source code must be made available, including the drivers...
No idea if this helps anything at all with our Streaks, but certainly the drivers are the current sticking point for DJ Steve and Fards et. al.
android is NOT gpl
the linux kernel inside it is gpl2
everything else (ie the entirety of android minus the kernel itself) is apache which means they can basically do whatever the hell they want with it
chaosdefinesorder said:
Something interesting I read recently somewhere else (can't remember now, might have been Reg Hardware), in order to be GPLv2 compliant (as Android is released as). . . .
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Click to collapse
Android is not GPLv2 it is Apache Software License, 2.0.
License page
One of the reasons that is is Apache licensed and not GPL is that there are less restrictions on marrying proprietary bits with the main OS. Makes it easier for phone manufacturers to mate Android with the hardware and software bits they want to keep secret.
Yea, read this and weep:
http://www.neowin.net/news/samsung-embraces-cyanogenmod-gives-away-sgs2-to-devs
Definitely jealous...
Sent from my Dell Streak using Tapatalk
marvin02 said:
Android is not GPLv2 it is Apache Software License, 2.0.
License page
One of the reasons that is is Apache licensed and not GPL is that there are less restrictions on marrying proprietary bits with the main OS. Makes it easier for phone manufacturers to mate Android with the hardware and software bits they want to keep secret.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aww pants, here's me being optimistic that we can force the drivers out of them

Android 4.0 Conference

Just got finished with the conference and really looking forward for ics to come to the iconia. Did anyone else watch it? Comments, and the samsung nexus also looks amazing
Looks awesome - can't wait for some of the good people here to get this ready for the Iconia A500. I'd do it myself but I have zero ability here
I'm guessing that Ice Cream Sandwich will be running on my Iconia long before my Desire HD!
Yeah I hope it comes soon but it probably wont be here until like mid November I think
It all depends on when Google release the source. the reason why we had to wait so long on the honeycomb builds were because honeycomb was kept (and will keep) closed source through its whole lifecycle.
with ICS, the source is released, there will be SDK available for it, and we can get AOSP base roms for it. so instead of having to wait for an OEM like Acer to ready a rom that we can base custom roms off, we dont have to wait at all.
dev(s) work out the drivers on their own and they can release AOSP roms in some cases well before the oems
unless i have it all wrong of course :S
qwertylesh said:
It all depends on when Google release the source. the reason why we had to wait so long on the honeycomb builds were because honeycomb was kept (and will keep) closed source through its whole lifecycle.
with ICS, the source is released, there will be SDK available for it, and we can get AOSP base roms for it. so instead of having to wait for an OEM like Acer to ready a rom that we can base custom roms off, we dont have to wait at all.
dev(s) work out the drivers on their own and they can release AOSP roms in some cases well before the oems
unless i have it all wrong of course :S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well are AOSP roms any good, are they just like any other rom, but of course the acer update would be the best and would mostly be bug free but would take awhile to get here
Hasn't the source code already been released? I remember reading on Slashgear that the SDK is released. Or is that not the same thing...? Sorry for my noobiness.
There shouldn't be much Acer need to do, seeing as our tabs are pretty much stock anyway... Acer will probably take about a month once the proper source code drops, but there will be custom ROMs within a few days.
where can we find this conference?
As a motorola user (milestone, so locked boot loader and its just rubbish) I'm still quite skeptical about if ICS will be ported to the A500. Anyone heard anything about it happening?
masands said:
Hasn't the source code already been released? I remember reading on Slashgear that the SDK is released. Or is that not the same thing...? Sorry for my noobiness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, SDK is development kit, not (complete) system's source code, but just a precompiled binaries and header files.
Consider yourself: Google did release Android 3.x SDKs (so developers could write apps for Honeycomb), but no Android 3.x source code.
azoller1 said:
Well are AOSP roms any good, are they just like any other rom, but of course the acer update would be the best and would mostly be bug free but would take awhile to get here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AOSP Roms are among the best, Oxygen for the Desire and SGS2 is possibly the best phone Rom available.
drdaeman said:
Nope, SDK is development kit, not (complete) system's source code, but just a precompiled binaries and header files.
Consider yourself: Google did release Android 3.x SDKs (so developers could write apps for Honeycomb), but no Android 3.x source code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's this kernel source code?
http://global-download.acer.com/Ste...SC=PA_6&LC=en&OS=a05&FS=O01&Category=Document
kjy2010 said:
What's this kernel source code?
http://global-download.acer.com/Ste...SC=PA_6&LC=en&OS=a05&FS=O01&Category=Document
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's KERNEL source code, not Honeycomb source code.
Kernel != OS
kjy2010 said:
What's this kernel source code?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is kernel source code, not Honeycomb one.
Android/Linux kernel is licensed under GPLv2, while Honeycomb (userspace stuff) is under Apache license (with portions under BSD and MIT licenses). GPLv2 is a "strong copyleft", which requires all distributors to provide source code. Apache, BSD, MIT and alikes are "weak copyleft", and they permit distribution of compiled binaries without obligation to provide source code.
Acer (as everyone out there) was legally obliged to publish kernel source, due to GPLv2 license terms. Yet, they've probably got Android source code under some special proprietary license (with NDA) from Google and are unable (whenever they're willing or not) to publish the source.
drdaeman said:
This is kernel source code, not Honeycomb one.
Android/Linux kernel is licensed under GPLv2, while Honeycomb (userspace stuff) is under Apache license (with portions under BSD and MIT licenses). GPLv2 is a "strong copyleft", which requires all distributors to provide source code. Apache, BSD, MIT and alikes are "weak copyleft", and they permit distribution of compiled binaries without obligation to provide source code.
Acer (as everyone out there) was legally obliged to publish kernel source, due to GPLv2 license terms. Yet, they've probably got Android source code under some special proprietary license (with NDA) from Google and are unable (whenever they're willing or not) to publish the source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kind of misleading for Acer to label it as such then:
" kernel source code (for Android 3.2 HoneyComb)"
I can't wait to see ICS on the Iconia. Seems a pity the Iconia doesn't have NFC though, as the Beam app in ICS looks amazing! Just as well, it'd probably be sort of tricky to pull off with a tablet in one hand and a phone in the other
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
kjy2010 said:
Kind of misleading for Acer to label it as such then:
" kernel source code (for Android 3.2 HoneyComb)"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's exactly what it is..
ernstcomplete said:
I can't wait to see ICS on the Iconia. Seems a pity the Iconia doesn't have NFC though, as the Beam app in ICS looks amazing! Just as well, it'd probably be sort of tricky to pull off with a tablet in one hand and a phone in the other
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beam won't work with our tablets unfortunately. No NFC.
Sent from my A500 using xda premium
which honeycomb tablet do you think will get the official ICS update first? i think the motorola xoom will
azoller1 said:
which honeycomb tablet do you think will get the official ICS update first? i think the motorola xoom will
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bet is Samsung galaxy, since Samsung already has a jump on the software.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
duloz said:
My bet is Samsung galaxy, since Samsung already has a jump on the software.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I wonder if samsung will keep touchwiz ui on the ICS update

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