Database Users

Prolonged Battery Charging ~ Yes, I believe it is Safe

Prior to getting the Galaxy S, after I read what Samsung were saying in the manual of not to overcharge, I investigated the reasons and wrote in various topics on the battery and the differences between Li-Ion & Li-Pol battery types.
At that point with all the evidence found it made sense to believe that what Samsung were saying in not to overcharge was accurate.
Basically, at that time it was believed the phone used a Li-Pol, Li-Pol batteries are different in that they are 'wet cell' as opposed to Li-Ion which are 'dry cell' charged.
Li-Pol can be manufactured much thinner but can not be manufactured in different shapes.
This is to allow the wet cells whilst under charge which become hot to move around the battery freely. If a Li-Pol was manufactured in different shapes like Li-Ion it would create a 'hot-spot' in an area where the wet cell could not move fluidly around the remainder of the battery.
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
Anyway, moving on to the present.......
After now getting the phone and doing a bit of testing I have found the overcharging issue NOT to be an issue.
When you commence a charge on the phone the icon changes to a charge state.
However, once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
So to all of us who have been worried about overcharging, my personal advise is to NOT worry and charge as and when you feel the need.
Hope this helps.
Beards

Thanks for clear up, I was always been scared while charging that it may blow up.

Nice find!

However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
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When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.

I have just charged mine from bone empty to full. A notification came up stating that the battery was full and to disconnect the charger. Although the battery monitor app says it is not charging and the normal battery meter has gone solid.
I agree that it seems to stop the charging circuit. Although I thought we were getting LiPo not li ion for these as well it's definitely li ion though.

Morbo66 said:
When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
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Take the battery out and turn it over. Now read the battery type and you will see it says Li-Ion.

if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it

hkfriends said:
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
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Click to collapse
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.

Beards said:
...once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
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Click to collapse
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.

Beards said:
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
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AFAIK, the reason to fully deplete the battery is to properly calibrate the % remaining in your battery. Running your battery down to empty causes more stress to the phone than running it down 50%. I happened to get a free battery with my device, but I would've bought a spare if I didn't get a free one, so I can easily go 3-5 days depending on usage, during this time I have my house and work to do charges. However, let's say I were to be expecting to have less frequent charges, such as taking a vacation, prior to that I would be fully depleting the battery to 0% to calibrate because then the battery level is more important to me. The trade off of long-term life vs short term accuracy is a very easy decision for me to make due to my situation.
In older batteries you had to "use the cells or lose them" situation where it was better, to at least occasionally, completely run down the device rather than doing partial cycles. These days, charging @ 50% 2 times is equivalent to 1 cycle of 100% with less long-term "stress" to the battery.
borchgrevink said:
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
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Same for me.

The reason it tells you to unplug the charger when done charging has nothing to do with battery. It is to save power. Battery chargers still draw some power just because they are plugged in. And in these green times it is ofcourse very popular to have warnings everywhere so you can claim to a green company. And every lithium ion and polymer battery contains electronics designed to protect them from abuse. Including over charging. So that will never be a problem on any phone unless you have a defective battery.

Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.

Joans said:
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
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I think I read that the newest, or maybe just a random middle since something has superseded it, firmware fixed this.

interesting topic thx Beards for sharing your insights.

Overcharging - read the manual
Guys, if you will read the manual that came with your SGS, it says there that "DO NOT OVERCHARGE YOUR BATTERY FOR MORE THAN TWO WEEKS". It obviously means that the battery can be overcharged for more than a day as long as it is not more than 2 weeks ( I doubt if someone will be able to do that). So that confirms also that we can recharge anytime and not necessarily have it done to zero before charging. Hope this helps also

i've pretty much quit worrying about the overcharge after the first month of usage
i was following the auto pop up message, just because i wanted to conserve battery
but having 3 spare battery made me though it's futile
and it was extreme annoying to wakeup in the middle of the night, just to unplug it
it was awesome the day i found that patch on the forum to disable the annoying pop up alert that your battery is full.
now i can sleep the whole night without the alert coming online, and rest at ease knowing if the phone actually alerts me, it'll be a phone call or something important, not some annoying "unplug me plz!" message

Constant usage battery life

From what I have seen, most battery life comparisons/stats are usually done with the phone in standby/screen off majority of the time.
I decided to do it the other way.
Last night to this morning:
I tried charging my battery to 100% but time constraints only had me charge it to around 84% (late for work).
I don't use/have a charger at work nor do I have one in my car. I work 8 hours straight (11pm - 7am) and I almost always stream pandora the entire time.
I am using the seidio extended battery and the only thing that stays off is wifi when I am not within range of any kind of open network (starbucks) or my own saved connection list. 4g/3g, gps, and background data are constantly on.
So, from 84% left the house and started streaming pandora in the car. Get to work about 15 minutes later with no interruption in streaming (just turned the volume down). I do shut off my screen while streaming when I put the phone in my pocket.
Surfed the web, watched some youtube videos, checked gmail and facebook (which auto sync about every hour and gmail notifies me of every single email I get), and played some games here and there (nothing great) throughout the night.
Basically my intent was to never let the phone sit and do nothing. The entire time pandora was streaming (browsing the net and streaming, checking gmail/facebook and streaming) but youtube would always stop pandora.
Got 8 hours of constant use. I don't want to say moderate/light/heavy as that scale changes from person to person. Moderate for one person may be heavy for the next.
I charged the battery in the phone because I don't have an external charger for it. Although I may get one because my charging method still involves me taking the battery out of the phone.
No task killers, no setcpu (I am rooted), no custom rom (from the dev forum).
I am using bakedsnack kernel #4, launcherpro, and I have personally uninstalled a crap load of stuff (even htc sense and rosie altogether).
My opinion is that all these gimmicks that we have to go through to get good battery life while in standy are not necessary. What is necessary is for the charging system in the evo to be revamped. This is my own opinion, but I think the charging system in the evo skips stage 2 of the charging process http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm which is why (this is what I think, I am no expert) so many people see the sudden drop from 100% down to whatever shortly after they unplug their charger.
It kind of makes sense as to why some people who charge their stock batteries in the ebay externals get better battery life, it's because they are actually being charged properly.
Again, this is just my opinion and I am in no way an expert on this. Just disclosing my experience and observations of my phone and it's behavior. Take from it what you will.

That's pretty amazing dude. Me personally would consider your use for this test to be pretty heavy. I'm more than impressed to see 37% battery life. And from what I've been reading up on the external charger is definitely the way to go. Although it's quite a pain to have to charge our evos like this just for maximum battery life. Hopefully in the future releases of phones we won't have tis do things like this. As mentioned in another post the switching of the battery to charge it will eventually make the back door loose or maybe even break sooner than planned, which is a problem for people who don't have extra doors. I guess it's not a bad investment to buy extra doors though.
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lovethyEVO said:
From what I have seen, most battery life comparisons/stats are usually done with the phone in standby/screen off majority of the time.
I decided to do it the other way.
I am using the seidio extended battery
My opinion is that all these gimmicks that we have to go through to get good battery life while in standy are not necessary.
It kind of makes sense as to why some people who charge their stock batteries in the ebay externals get better battery life, it's because they are actually being charged properly.
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Here is my take and i edited your post down to the points i am discussing.
First I like the fact you realize most battery tests and many of the people getting ridiculous battery life are idle most of the time (even if they say they are moderate use normally they have 1-3 hours of moderate use out of the 30 hours battery life they claim). I think showing actual usage time is much more impressive.
Now if you are going to do a battery post and talk about opinions and what your battery life is ... i don't suggest using an extended battery. you show that over aprox 8 hours of use (wont classify it as heavy moderate etc since you didnt) you lost about 50% the problem here is the extended battery from seidio has a much larger capacity then your standard htc battery that comes with evo (even if it doesnt actually have the 3500mah it is still a lot more). On a est i did i could play a movie on a stock battery for just over 5 hours before the battery drained using nothing but the stock install of a rom and without changing settings to turn things off etc. So in my opinion the battery life you are showing is actually a little low for that battery but that not really the point.
now as for the evo charging incorrectly. the reason why peoples batteries drop quickly the first 20-30 minutes (for most who have a correctly calibrated "battery") is because EVO doesn't have a trickle charge. this doesnt mean the evo isnt charging the battery correctly. the idea behind not having a trickle charge is it helps prolong the life of the battery it self at the cost of 0-10% charge depending on where it is when you take it off the charger.
While i personally would rather have the trickle charge and have to buy replacement batteries more often. it isnt that the evo charges incorrectly it. They jsut made the choice to try to make the battery itself last as long as possible at the cost of some battery use time depending on when you take it off the charger.

These are my latest seidio 3500 numbers with correct battery conditioning. Going to try and duplicate these numbers. Most of about 10 hours was slacker and pandora. This was from 100 to 14 percent on 3500 seidio. Pics for your pleasure and debate. I was able to get another 8 hours standby from this point and hour of lets golf before battery died. That was my 2nd conditioning of the battery. Going on 3rd full slow trickle charge up now. The trickle charge on battery wall charger takes about 12 hours wtf but worth it. I just use my cheap china 3000mah to cover the time.
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omegasun18 said:
Here is my take and i edited your post down to the points i am discussing.
First I like the fact you realize most battery tests and many of the people getting ridiculous battery life are idle most of the time (even if they say they are moderate use normally they have 1-3 hours of moderate use out of the 30 hours battery life they claim). I think showing actual usage time is much more impressive.
Now if you are going to do a battery post and talk about opinions and what your battery life is ... i don't suggest using an extended battery. you show that over aprox 8 hours of use (wont classify it as heavy moderate etc since you didnt) you lost about 50% the problem here is the extended battery from seidio has a much larger capacity then your standard htc battery that comes with evo (even if it doesnt actually have the 3500mah it is still a lot more). On a est i did i could play a movie on a stock battery for just over 5 hours before the battery drained using nothing but the stock install of a rom and without changing settings to turn things off etc. So in my opinion the battery life you are showing is actually a little low for that battery but that not really the point.
now as for the evo charging incorrectly. the reason why peoples batteries drop quickly the first 20-30 minutes (for most who have a correctly calibrated "battery") is because EVO doesn't have a trickle charge. this doesnt mean the evo isnt charging the battery correctly. the idea behind not having a trickle charge is it helps prolong the life of the battery it self at the cost of 0-10% charge depending on where it is when you take it off the charger.
While i personally would rather have the trickle charge and have to buy replacement batteries more often. it isnt that the evo charges incorrectly it. They jsut made the choice to try to make the battery itself last as long as possible at the cost of some battery use time depending on when you take it off the charger.
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50% loss over 8 hours of near constant use (my awake time shows that it did manage to sleep somehow even though I streamed pandora constantly) on any battery (extended or not) is actually a good thing as it shows that even with the phone fully bogged down (almost all radios on) it can last a full work day (which is what most people are concerned about).
I still believe the evo does not charge the batteries correctly and it is not solely related on the absence of a trickle charge.
Again, from my observations over the course of the past three weeks. I started with what my battery was calibrated to according to the phone. Let it drain down to about 15% (according to the phone) and wiped the battery stats and did a different charging method from the htc "rain dance".
Here is where my opinion of the evo not charging properly comes into play.
From 15% to 100% charge (charged while phone and screen are on to monitor voltage, temp, mA draw, etc.) took about an hour +/- a couple minutes. As soon as the led turned green (yes, I literally sat at my phone watching the percent slowly rise) I unplugged the charger and noted the resting voltage level and percent (according to three seperate battery status applications). Once noted, I powered down the phone. After the screen completely shut off I removed the battery and tested the voltage. I did this for my own information because I wanted to verify the phone itself was actually reporting the voltage levels correctly. It was.
Now, recall that I had just charged the phone to 100% and had wiped battery stats prior to charging.
Replaced the battery back into the phone and powered up. Normally people see a jump in battery percentage when they power down and back up. Not in my case. To my amazement, the evo reported my battery as being at 78% charge level. So I went from being 100% charged down to 78% percent charge all from powering down, removing the battery, checking voltage, and then replacing battery and powering up. Time to power down, remove, check voltage, replace and power up is somewhere around the one minute mark +/-.
Again, referencing the link I provided earlier about charging li-ion batteries, the evo seems to skip stage 2 of the charging process which usually results in about a 70% charge (according to the link).
Charged it again from the 78% mark to 100% and the charging time took just over an hour to get back to 100%. Same routine, check voltage on phone, power down, remove battery, check voltage on mmeter, replace battery, power on, check levels.
Second time around I dropped from 100% charge to about 89%. Voltage levels were always accurate. Charged again and took about another hour +/- and finally achieved a charge to where it would not fall or rise between a power down (97% seems to be my cap which is fine since I don't want to truly charge the battery to 100%).
To test the discharge rate I tried my best to keep the battery running condition identical for each discharge run.
I monitored the battery temp, cpu temp, battery voltage, amp draw, and cpu load.
Streaming only pandora and nothing else I usually managed to keep the amp draw to around 300 - 360mA with the screen on. This was my way of measuring the discharge rate without access to equipment that could give the battery a steady discharge load.
Every time the percentage dropped one I would note the volts, temps, amp draw and cpu load. Across the board temps and cpu load remained close to constant as the phone wasn't doing too much multitasking.
At this point, I have about 4 full voltage readouts from 100% down to 15%. Without wiping battery stats, if I charge the phone with my method (charge to 100%, power down, remove battery, replace battery, power up and recharge) my past voltage readouts coincide with my battery readouts on the phone (87% falls within a certain voltage range and so on) but if I just charge the battery until the phone says it's 100% then the readouts on the phone no longer fall within my past readouts until I go back to my charging method. This tells me that if I let the evo charge the battery the way it is programmed to (hardware or software) then it is not actually charging the battery to its full potential (not necessarily 100%).
Across the board the cpu load and the temps rarely drastically changed as it wasn't running multiple tasks at once. This is just my own observations and tests that I did/started doing for my own intellectual reference.
I have done the same charging method with my wife's evo and stock battery (1500 htc oem). I wiped her stats but only managed to get two full voltage readouts with her phone. She has stated that her battery does last longer than before and she is only rooted to remove bloatware. She is running stock rom, stock kernel, no task killers, no memory managers, and her radios and settings are close to mine (she gets more mail and facebook notifications than I do).
Again, this is just my opinion and personal observations. I did this solely because I got tired of having to constantly turn things on and off just to use them. My past phones never had this problem and I don't think the evo should have to be babied just to get good battery life. I still believe it all lies in the charging system of the phone and not necessarily the battery (extended versus stock).

Hey, what battery conditioning did you guys do? There's a ton of different suggestions and I am wondering if one or two have finally been proven to not be placebo.

I decided to do the HTC charging method when I changed roms to cm6. I went into hboot after and wipe stats. Turned on and took about 20 minutes to get to 98% using internet. Anyways I let phone die. Plug it in and I have system monitory with history monitoring. So I go to bed, and wake up to expect 100%. Nope 80%. Checked the monitor and trickled from 80% to 70% for 2 whole hours. I did the HTC thing again for full charge. Repeated. Only charges to 80%!!!! I changed roms. Same thing.
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martyzidek said:
I decided to do the HTC charging method when I changed roms to cm6. I went into hboot after and wipe stats. Turned on and took about 20 minutes to get to 98% using internet. Anyways I let phone die. Plug it in and I have system monitory with history monitoring. So I go to bed, and wake up to expect 100%. Nope 80%. Checked the monitor and trickled from 80% to 70% for 2 whole hours. I did the HTC thing again for full charge. Repeated. Only charges to 80%!!!! I changed roms. Same thing.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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Your situation also points to my opinion that the charging system on the evo does not charge correctly. I am also thinking that the battery stats dont play a huge role but I still jave more monitoring to do.

I also prefer the constant-use benchmarks, and did one myself as well. Charge to 100% and then stream DI.fm using XiiaLive (96Kbps MP3) through WiFi (router in same room) + full brightness + screen ON (no timeout). My poor Evo lasted 3:55 before forced shutdown . Btw, running Fresh v3.1.0.2 with netarchy v4.1.8-cfs, no SetCPU or any other "battery saving" tools.

frifox said:
I also prefer the constant-use benchmarks, and did one myself as well. Charge to 100% and then stream DI.fm using XiiaLive (96Kbps MP3) through WiFi (router in same room) + full brightness + screen ON (no timeout). My poor Evo lasted 3:55 before forced shutdown . Btw, running Fresh v3.1.0.2 with netarchy v4.1.8-cfs, no SetCPU or any other "battery saving" tools.
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Click to collapse
I am at work now and when I get home I plan on charging the stock battery as best as I can and doing another constant use run to satisfy the crowd who run the stock battery.

I think I found the secret to good battery life...

Don't charge your phone overnight! When it gets really low, slap it on the charger for a couple hours until you've got 85-90%. Unplug and enjoy fantastic battery life. I have gotten about double normal battery life (approximately 48 hours) using this method. I'm on CM6.1, mind you, so it may be some quirk with the ROM.
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Sent from my HTC Supersonic using Tapatalk Pro.

Ive been saying this for a while. I charge up my phone to about 96% and i let it go till almost 5% before i throw it back on the charge. That usually gives me 12 to 18 hours. A lot of people tend to get "battery panic" and throw it on soon as they see it draining a bit. Just leave it alone.

I charge on a wall charger. I have three batteries and change daily. I get 22-24 hours and 5-6 hours of hard use.
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Here are my observations:
The Evo seems to have a peculiar way of using external power. Once the battery reaches full-charge the external power apparently gets shut off and the phone operates on battery power until the battery level drops to somewhere around 85-90%. Then the charging current switches back on until the battery level reaches 100% again and the process repeats itself. This differs from more conventional scenarios where the phone actually runs on the external power (rather than the battery) once the battery reaches full charge.
I came to this conclusion while playing with my Evo while it was plugged into the charger. First I noticed that the charging light would cycle from green to amber and back every so often. Then I noticed that the battery level indicator would drop even while the charger was plugged in.
So I started checking my battery level in the morning before I removed the phone from the charging dock and discovered that it was rarely at 100%. I'm convinced that the phone does get charged to 100% when I put it on the charging cradle, but then it sits there running off of the battery until it drops to that magic ~85-90% level and the charging current is reestablished.
But a typical night on the charger isn't enough time for the battery level to drop enough to re-start the charging current and if I come along and just grab the phone, I'm starting my day with a battery which isn't completely charged. In my case, the only time this doesn't happen is if my day ends real late and the next morning starts real early.
Once I had a good idea of what was going on, coming up with a work-around was simple: One of the first things I do when I get up in the morning is look at the charging indicator on the phone. If it's amber I do nothing because the phone is already in charging mode. If it's green I remove the phone from the cradle for a moment and put it right back on. Most of the time the indicator will switch from green to amber when I do that, but if it doesn't I'll go online and read the news or something for a few minutes before I put the phone back on the cradle.
Either way, the phone will then charge for 30 minutes or less before the indicator goes green again. By then I'm done with my morning routine and ready to face the day, and when I grab the phone it's fully charged.
My Evo is out-of-the-box stock (for now). It's a hardware version 0003 and has firmware v. 3.29.651.5. I typically leave my Bluetooth turned on all the time, but I leave 4G, WIFI, and the GPS turned off unless I need 'em. My typical daily routine involves several phone calls, some email downloads and uploads, some incidental web browsing, and some geocaching if a new cache is published within a few miles. As long as I stick with that typical routine, my battery is always in the 40-50% range when I put the phone back into the cradle for the night. Of course if I use the phone more it discharges the battery more, but I'm set up to charge it at home, at work, and in the car.
Now despite everything I've posted here, I can't imagine any practical reason to not top off the battery whenever it's convenient. Letting the battery run down before you charge it doesn't have any effect on how long a full charge will run the phone. In fact, it will actually reduce the number of charge-discharge cycles that your battery can provide before it starts losing capacity. I don't want to type it all again, but if you're interested you can CLICK HERE if you'd like to learn more about LiPo battery characteristics and maintenance.
'Nuff outta me
Pete

the evo charges to 100% then cycles to 90% then back to 100% so that it does not explode from over heating thats why when you grab your phone in the morning it might say 93% rather than 100% i dont mind though cause i dont want my phone to blow up

ThatTmoGuy said:
the evo charges to 100% then cycles to 90% then back to 100% so that it does not explode from over heating thats why when you grab your phone in the morning it might say 93% rather than 100% i dont mind though cause i dont want my phone to blow up
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Click to collapse
I'm a lot more inclined to believe that it's either an engineering error or a half-baked idea with undesirable consequences. The reason I say that is I've had countless other cell phones and consumer electronics devices which used LiPo batteries for power, yet the Evo is the first device that I'm aware of which operates like that. The rest will stop charging when the batteries are fully charged, but they'll continue to use the external power to run the device as long as it's plugged in.
Pete

PGRtoo said:
I'm a lot more inclined to believe that it's either an engineering error or a half-baked idea with undesirable consequences. The reason I say that is I've had countless other cell phones and consumer electronics devices which used LiPo batteries for power, yet the Evo is the first device that I'm aware of which operates like that. The rest will stop charging when the batteries are fully charged, but they'll continue to use the external power to run the device as long as it's plugged in.
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the purpose is to prolong the battery life so it doesn't charge again every time it drops to 99%.
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Sent from my HTC Supersonic using Tapatalk Pro.

TheBiles said:
I think the purpose is to prolong the battery life so it doesn't charge again every time it drops to 99%.
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Click to collapse
Apparently my point is just blowing right past everyone.
For most modern consumer electronics devices the charger can serve at least two functions which are charge the battery and run the device. These functions are remotely related by virtue of the fact that the power comes from the same source, but the functions themselves are typically quite independent of each other. In other words, most devices can run off the charger's power regardless of whether the battery is being charged or not, and when the device is running on the charger, it's not drawing power from the battery.
But it appears that the Evo doesn't do things that way. In essence, it seems like the Evo is hard-wired to the battery and the charger is incapable of independently powering the device when it's not charging the battery. So the battery reaches full charge, the charging circuit shuts off, and the phone starts draining the battery despite the fact that the charger is still connected. Once the battery drains to ~85-90% the charging circuit kicks back on, the battery gets charged back to 100%, and the whole process repeats itself.
Consequently it's a crapshoot whether our Evos will be fully-charged when we take them off of the charger unless we take some additional steps. I can deal with those extra steps, but I can't come up with any practical reason why we should have to. No matter how long I analyze the situation, I can't see any benefit to doing things that way except, perhaps, to save on manufacturing costs. All I can come up with are annoying extra steps and unnecessary battery charge-discharge cycles, and I can't grasp how those benefit anyone.
I see that you and I have carried some of the same phones in the past, TheBiles (Sanyo 8300, Treo 650, Hero) and I don't remember any of those phones coming off a charger with anything less than a full charge unless I interrupted the charge cycle. In fact, I'm convinced that no phone that I've ever carried has had this problem. The Evo is the very first one which is why I suspect some folks at HTC are quietly saying oopsie.
Pete

Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Pete, I'm not convinced most smart phones actually power themselves off of the wallcharger when plugged in as you seem to think. I have no real evidence to back this up, though - other than my own observations.
I will say that the EVO's method isn't as isolated as you seem to think. For example, the Palm Pre which I owned for a year previous to the EVO operates in the exact same manner.
The Pre would hit 100%, stop charging, operate on battery power until it dropped to 95%, then charge from 95 back to 100. The EVO, however, drops down to 90 before it starts the charge cycle again. This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
This might be your first phone that operates this way, but it certainly isn't unique to smartphones or HTC.
PGRtoo said:
Apparently my point is just blowing right past everyone.
For most modern consumer electronics devices the charger can serve at least two functions which are charge the battery and run the device. These functions are remotely related by virtue of the fact that the power comes from the same source, but the functions themselves are typically quite independent of each other. In other words, most devices can run off the charger's power regardless of whether the battery is being charged or not, and when the device is running on the charger, it's not drawing power from the battery.
But it appears that the Evo doesn't do things that way. In essence, it seems like the Evo is hard-wired to the battery and the charger is incapable of independently powering the device when it's not charging the battery. So the battery reaches full charge, the charging circuit shuts off, and the phone starts draining the battery despite the fact that the charger is still connected. Once the battery drains to ~85-90% the charging circuit kicks back on, the battery gets charged back to 100%, and the whole process repeats itself.
Consequently it's a crapshoot whether our Evos will be fully-charged when we take them off of the charger unless we take some additional steps. I can deal with those extra steps, but I can't come up with any practical reason why we should have to. No matter how long I analyze the situation, I can't see any benefit to doing things that way except, perhaps, to save on manufacturing costs. All I can come up with are annoying extra steps and unnecessary battery charge-discharge cycles, and I can't grasp how those benefit anyone.
I see that you and I have carried some of the same phones in the past, TheBiles (Sanyo 8300, Treo 650, Hero) and I don't remember any of those phones coming off a charger with anything less than a full charge unless I interrupted the charge cycle. In fact, I'm convinced that no phone that I've ever carried has had this problem. The Evo is the very first one which is why I suspect some folks at HTC are quietly saying oopsie.
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I completely agree. This is clearly going on, and I'm surprised more people don't talk about it. I put Cyanogen on mine the day I got it, so I thought that was the issue, but I went back to stock (for a day) and it did the same thing. The light goes off after 90% and it stops charging at 100% until it drops below 90%. I also agree that it doesn't seem to serve a usable purpose, and seems to be a design flaw.
I'm still very happy with the phone, but when battery life is this important, that's kind of a big deal.

BHack said:
Pete, I'm not convinced most smart phones actually power themselves off of the wallcharger when plugged in as you seem to think. I have no real evidence to back this up, though - other than my own observations.
I will say that the EVO's method isn't as isolated as you seem to think. For example, the Palm Pre which I owned for a year previous to the EVO operates in the exact same manner.
The Pre would hit 100%, stop charging, operate on battery power until it dropped to 95%, then charge from 95 back to 100. The EVO, however, drops down to 90 before it starts the charge cycle again. This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
This might be your first phone that operates this way, but it certainly isn't unique to smartphones or HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had two Pres, and both had the battery % mod on them. I used to set them on my touchstone at work all day long, and I would take them off periodically. My battery drained so bad I could lose 30% in an hour with light use. If I ever took it off the touchstone when it wasn't at 100%, it was only because it got too low and wasn't at 100% yet. I noticed this on day one with my EVO, and never noticed a single issue anything like this on my Pre.
I'm not saying it wasn't there, I'm saying I NEVER noticed this. As far as I knew, it charged to 100% and then ran off the plug, or at least that's what I assumed.

this is a strange thread for xda; competent, fully formed sentences. civilized banter. it's nice!
on topic though, i have noticed and came to this conclusion independently a couple months ago. it's kind of irritating - i hate how cheap manufacturers can be sometimes (all the time).

turn said:
this is a strange thread for xda; competent, fully formed sentences. civilized banter. it's nice!
on topic though, i have noticed and came to this conclusion independently a couple months ago. it's kind of irritating - i hate how cheap manufacturers can be sometimes (all the time).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I've seen MUCH worse forums. Try Anandtech sometimes. Some great threads there, and a ton of awful.
I feel like HTC is just not that company that cuts corners. I think this might have been a real attempt to make something work well - or better - but in my opinion it failed miserably.

WrlsFanatic said:
I had two Pres, and both had the battery % mod on them. I used to set them on my touchstone at work all day long, and I would take them off periodically. My battery drained so bad I could lose 30% in an hour with light use. If I ever took it off the touchstone when it wasn't at 100%, it was only because it got too low and wasn't at 100% yet. I noticed this on day one with my EVO, and never noticed a single issue anything like this on my Pre.
I'm not saying it wasn't there, I'm saying I NEVER noticed this. As far as I knew, it charged to 100% and then ran off the plug, or at least that's what I assumed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may not have noticed it, but I can guarantee you the Pre charged as I described. It was a "crapshoot" when you pulled it off the charger as to where you actually were in the charge. You could be anywhere from 95 - 100. Of course, the Pre would always show 100%, just as the EVO does.
Because the Pre's battery was smaller, WebOS was more battery hungry than Android, and the fact that it only cycled down to 95 instead of 90 like the EVO are all reasons why you might not have noticed it, but it was there.

BHack said:
This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would it be better for the battery? They may be partial charge-discharge cycles but they're cycles nonetheless and the Lithium Polymer cell chemistry is only capable of so many of 'em before it starts to degrade. Short cycles are easier on it than full cycles, but they all take a toll.
I currently have something like 40 LiPo packs that range from dinky little 35mAh single-cell micro batteries to a couple of 10S (37V) 5000mAh packs. I use them in my R/C planes and helicopters, communications gear, and electronics projects and I've used up and disposed of many times that over the years. I even had to build my own packs and chargers when I first started using them because the cells were experimental and there wasn't anything commercially available yet.
And I survived all that without having a single LiPo fire (that I didn't deliberately trigger) and I attribute that to the fact that I've been rabid about learning everything I can about the technology and the use and care of the batteries.
And I'm unaware of any benefit that can be gained from unnecessarily cycling LiPo batteries regardless of how small the cycles are.
Pete

WrlsFanatic said:
I feel like HTC is just not that company that cuts corners. I think this might have been a real attempt to make something work well - or better - but in my opinion it failed miserably.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My predominant theory is that HTC has erred on the side of caution on the advice of their legal department. LiPo cells can easily become little firebombs if they're mistreated and the overwhelming majority of "events" occur during a charge cycle. Search YouTube for lipo fire and you'll find pages and pages of examples, but beware:
You may not want to carry yer phone in yer pocket right next to yer cojones anymore after you do.
Pete

Having the wall battery charger solves this issue. The wall charger will charge the battery to full capacity.
It also allows me to test battery life on roms/kernels as accurately as possible. Only time I connect the phone to USB is when I need to move files.

Bioxoxide said:
Having the wall battery charger solves this issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you say wall charger, do you mean one that you have to remove the battery from the phone and insert it in the charger?
Pete the Curious

Just wanted to say that there have been many discussions on this here at xda, I guess most of us just deal with it.
What I do is charge externaly with a cheap Chinese charger that Came with two batteries that work great.
Every since I made this move I haven't looked back. My battery life is great now, 24 plus hrs per charge. Sometimes I go close to 40 hrs, and I use Bluetooth, have GPS and WiFi ways on. In fact I don't cut any corners, no under clocking either.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

On Charge More Than 15 Hours a Day Hurting Battery?

I charge my phone overnight, from around 10PM to 8AM, then I leave my phone charging in its dock from about 9AM to 5PM during the work day...
any harm in doing this? I'd like my phone to last quite a while, as we are currently in a serious relationship, and I don't plan on letting her go....

What hurts your phone battery is not charging it but keeping it on high temperatures for a long time. And guess what keeps it on high temperatures: yep, you guessed it, charging for a long time.
Sent from my HTC Desire C using xda app-developers app

While it always depends on the charging circuit, keeping your battery topped up by constant charging (even trickle maintenance) will reduce the voltage level that it can be charged to. This will take quite some time to notice, and several deeper charging cycles will "repair" this to a certain extent. But with any battery, keeping it any constant level will reduce its charging capacity, and continual charging (trickle or otherwise) will "cook" the batteries chemical make up sooner.
To do what you're doing everyday will absolutely have an impact on your battery's health over the long term. But to exactly what extent is based on several factors I don't have specific data on.

Absolutely, our phone battery is designed for mobile usage, not to be tethered to a charger constantly. Constant charging is unnecessary, wasteful and leads to early battery demise.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium

And aren't our high end modern phones also designed to trickle charge when it gets to %100, so no harm can come to it?

caliber177 said:
And aren't our high end modern phones also designed to trickle charge when it gets to %100, so no harm can come to it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose it depends on how you define "harm". Read my post above again. Any level of current that is continually supplied to a charged battery will accelerate the aging of it.
Even if the charger were to shut off completely, and then resume charging at a certain level (which I believe is the behavior of the LG wireless charger at 95%), continually discharging and recharging from 95% to 100% is probably not ideal.
But all of this is probably not all that great of an affect in the grand scheme of things. You're not gonna kill your battery in a matter of months by leaving on the charger all of the time. Yes you will accelerate the degradation of the battery's health over time, but if your phone is in use enough so the battery is being discharged regularly between charges, I doubt that you will notice it for a long time, if at all.
I can say that if you simply leave it charging 24/7 without any other kind of use you will be able to measure degradation surprisingly soon. As to how noticeable it will be is very hard to say.

I use and suggest Battery Monitor Widget from 3c. It takes the guess work out of what you see when you're charging and what happens to the phone when it reaches 100%.
As the phone gradually reaches 90%, charging is noticeably slowed. From about 92-100% it trickle charges from around 300 to 200 to 100mA until it reaches 100%. Charger stops charging when full and lets the battery level drop slightly before charging it back to 100%. You're constantly topping it off at full and batteries of this chemistry don't like that.
As far as I can recall, these types of batteries actually thrive on being run down and cycled back up. The only catch is, don't run them down until it's completely dead. You've significantly cut the life of your battery if you do it quite often.
To answer your question, it probably doesn't hurt that much. If you do it for months, maybe years. Yeah, you'll see some degradation.

desynch- said:
As far as I can recall, these types of batteries actually thrive on being run down and cycled back up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would correct this and say the battery loves being near the median. Store at 40% battery! 100%-0% is bad... 100%-10% is better, 90/10 is better etc...
80/40 is really good for preserving charge cycles. Basically, charging at 30% back up to 70% is better than letting it go down to 0%
Note: this is a REALLY good battery in this phone. Just USE it until you feel it's dying too soon and buy a new one. Batteries are cheap and will be cheaper in 2-3 years.

But we can't buy battery for this phone.. I always let it run down to 14% that's when the warning message pops up.. Then back up, charges in 2 1/2 hrs then I leave it on an hour more until I leave from work so I could have a full phone.. Note, I work over nights, so its dead at around 2 or 3 am sometimes, then I leave at 6 am..
Sent from my Nexus 4

Please... I would say we can in a few months! Most of us have already voided the warranty
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium

Most of us in here don't keep our phones long enough to notice any battery degradation..
Just charge it as often as you can but unplug it when it's full.

To be safe I would let the phone idle off of the work charger and only plug in at home.

dralways said:
To be safe I would let the phone idle off of the work charger and only plug in at home.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, I only charge once a day and it's usually sufficient, if your a heavy user and are concerned about the phone dying at night, let the phone decharge normally throughout the day and plug it in an hour or an hour and a half before you leave, however long it takes to charge the device after a workday's worth of usage (Whatever that is for you)
I do this myself if I'm using my phone heavily during the day and know I'll be out all night. Like some said you'll probably never even notice the degradation, but when you know it's not good for the battery in the strictest sense why risk it, the phones aren't designed to be charging 2/3rd of the time, they are designed to be charged and then taken off the charger and used.

>Zerolemon Proper Charging Instructions + Loss of Battery Power from Drop Fix!‹

When charging The ZeroLemon battery, you should always charge at the "Lowest Amperage" meaning Fast charge should "always" be turned OFF when charging any ZeroLemon batteries. Leaving the fast charge turned on will charge the battery faster, of course. However, it will "kill" the ZeroLemon battery over time, reducing it's charging life to a mere crappy timespan, and also reducing it's ability to distribute a charge for the device over the original intended time cycle. >This info is straight from ZeroLemon themselves. This is not just my opinion.<I have purchased many batteries from ZeroLemon, on my business account, and this is what they themselves, and their USA distributor instructed us to do for the absolute best performance of their battery.
Another thing to keep in mind is when charging the battery on the slow, non fast charge cycle. To always charge with the phone off. No, this isn't so the phone can charge the battery faster. It's so the battery will get the "Full Charge" it's intended to receive. What do I mean, you might ask? When charging the OEM factory battery, the software is programmed to look at the /data/system/batterystats.bin file to determine calculative information and statistical information about the battery itself. This information guides the system on where the battery is at its charge cycle along with various other related task.
Zerolemon clearly states: "Shut down, plug in the power supply and charge until full. (Preferably continuously charge overnight to ensure maximum power. Remember to not switch the phone on, until battery is fully charged.)"
So how do you know if this monster of a battery is fully charged? Well, there's a couple ways. You can look at the whitepapers or on the battery and get the full amperage/voltage cycle information, or you can simply use some simple math to determine what amount charge you're charging at and then determine the amount of hours it will take for a complete full charge.
Now, I can make this a little easy for you and help you out with this. If the battery is brand new, meaning it just literally arrived and you just opened it from the box. Charge for afull 12-18 hoursfor the first charge. Do this with the phone off. When you hit that time mark, you can turn the phone on for use. Now keep in mind I said 18-24 hours for the first charge. Since Zerolemon sends out the battery with some bit of a charge on it, it's impossible to get the exact amount of charge for sure. So when in doubt, charge it fully out. That means 18-24 hours. Yes, yes, that's one hell of a long charge. But let me tell you. I use my phone all day. Full screen brightness, everything turned on, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, etc. Watch videos, games, hit the forums, obviously . And I always get 3 to 4 days of use. That's right baby. 3 to 4 days of use. The secret is the long slow charge. These batteries are not single cell, they are a tricell makeup. The slower and longer the charge, the longer the battery will last.
Now back to the charging cyle info. You've already charged the phone up completely for the first time. Now use that sucka! And I mean use it till it completely gets to 5% and the system forces you that crappy power save mode where it dims the display etc. Power the phone off. Remove just enough of the rubber TPU case to lift up the battery from the contacts. Count to 3, then replace the battery, TPU, etc. Don't be shocked when you power it back on and you've got 80% full battery again. Remember this is a tricell, so it doesn't report correctly what the exact amperage/voltage is to the android system. Now continue to use the battery and repeat until the battery is at 5% all the time when reinserting it again.
Now, the step above is where everyone messes up and just depletes the battery to 5% only "one time" and then goes to charge the battery again. Don't do it! You're cheating yourself out of precious battery life.Follow the above cycle exactly as I said and you'll be thanking me later, that I promise. If you've already had the battery for a while and been charging it incorrectly, don't worry. Deplete the battery as outlined above, then charge for 18-24 hours, remove battery, insert battery, repeat till stays continually at 5% then recharge.
OK. Now let's move on. Once you continually hit that 5%, Start the charge cycle over again by charging the phone with Fast Charge turned OFF, the full 18-24 hours. Then repeat the steps outlined above again.
>>IT'S EXTREMELY IMPERATIVE THAT YOU DO THIS 5 CYCLES.<< (Sorry for the caps, but really need to stress the importance of this.)
Once you have completed the five cycles, you're on your way to always leaving that blasted charger at home, and never again being thought of as a "Wall Hugger" if you've seen the commercials .
=> Don’t stop charging even it shows 100% charged. And if you're seeing this 100%, then you didn't turn off the phone during the charge as indicated above, lol. A true "Full Charge" is only performed when the battery has been charged for 18-24 hours.
Charging Scenario
When you are doing the first "5 Full charge and Deplete cycles", the phone must be powered "off" while charging. This is due to the android operating system and the Note 4 thinking the phone is fully charged when it reaches 100% even though in reality it's truly not. The Zerolemon battery may only be in reality at 30%, 40%, 50%, etc. Remember, the device believes it has the OEM factory battery in it, and not the massive Zerolemon battery. Unfortunately if you're not rooted with a Developers Edition Note 4, it cannot differentiate between the two batteries. So for the first 5 full charges, (this is referred to as the conditioning of the battery,) turn the phone off when charging.
Now after the 5 cycles have been completed, and the conditioning has been done. You can charge the battery with the phone on. However its important to remember that:
1. When your little battery icon shows full, or if you have the battery % on, & it shows 100%, don't stop charging. It thinks you have the Factory OEM battery in place. To ensure that you have a "True Full Charge" the total noninterrupted charge time must be no shorter than 18 hours and no more than 24, if the battery is truly fully depleted.
2. Properly charging a battery of this size works as follows. The battery has been charged 18-24 hours and is fully charged. You use the device depleting the battery over a period of a few days, while in the process, when it hits 5% you remove the battery and then reinsert as mentioned earlier, then continue to use the device till the battery is actually fully depleted. This means the phone won't power on anymore.
Now at this point, you'd start the charging process again, for 18-24 hours.
Do not charge at every day or every night just because the battery is a little low. (Because almost devices are powerful hungry and batteries depletion is very quick, people are in a habit of just throwing it on charge whenever and however.) Only charge when the device is completely and fully powerless.
Routinely charging the Zerolemon battery in different increments will cause a severe and nonreversible battery retention that will prevent the battery from not only being able to give full use, but prevent it from being able to be fully charged anymore.
TIPS:
Zerolemon batteries for the Note 4 are notorious for prematurely shutting down the phone by means of loss of power if the phone is dropped or in some cases even bumped. The reason this occurs is because their is a small discrepancy in the exact battery size where the contacts meet the pins on the phone. In layman's terms, the Zerolemon battery is just a bit short. No, it's not gonna fall out of the back of the TPU case or anything like that. However, if you drop the phone, or even in some reported cases, bump the phone, the Zerolemons battery loses connection with the gold contacts from the device from within the battery compartment.
Reports have been made to Zerolemon concerning the issue, however Zerolemon has failed still yet, to resolve the problem accordingly. Most likely because just a simple change of plan, would literally open the door for thousands of recalls, refunds, etc, not to mention cost thousands of dollars to remap the sizing and make the correction to future batteries.
Well with this said, all is not lost. I've found, if you remove the TPU case, leaving the battery in place, you can insert a small shim of paper at the proper place, and this will totally resolve and eliminate the problem 100%.
You can use paper, plastic, Thin gasket material etc. Whichever is most convenient for you at the time.
The proper placing of the paper is crucial. Because you don't want to cover up the path to the speaker phone compartment any more than it already is.
Here's the easiest way to fix it.
Power off your phone. Now remove the TPU case and lay the phone carefully screen down so the battery compartment is facing upwards. Position the phone where the bottom of the battery compartment is closest to you, and the camera is furthest from you. Now remove the battery. On the bottom right side of the battery compartment you will want to insert your paper, plastic, "fix" etc to the bottom right side of the compartment. The paper thickness I'd recommend would be the thickness of a regular matchbook cover, or about 2 sheets of construction paper. The dimensions I used was about 1/8 inch tall, by 1 inch long. Don't lay the paper flat inside the battery compartment, doing so will cause the battery to be a little "thicker" and not make connection. You will want to "Stand Up" the little piece if paper, or if you're feeling savy enough, permanently afix the paper to the housing. Now when you go to reinsert your Zerolemons battery, you'll notice that it not only actually first a little tighter and snugger, like it should have been on day 1. But it also doesn't let the battery wiggle a little like before. Replace your TPU case, and power on your phone.
I'll upload some pics for you to show you how I did mine. If you got any questions on any of this, just ask.
Don't worry if you're a newby, a senior XDA member, or a Developer. You won't get any flaming or criticizing from me. Asking for help is always welcomed as far as I'm concerned.
The only dumb question is the question that's not asked.
Don't forget to hit the "Thanks Button!"

Your post was written on the same day that the Retail unlock was released, about maybe 6 hours earlier, and I'm just noticing this post this morning. First of all, I'm actually now on CM13. Secondly, I've disabled any automatic screen dimming at 5% and 15%. I still get warnings, which I do swipe away. My phone did reboot when it thought it got down to zero, only to find out that I was at 11%. I continued to drain again to 0%, tried to start up, no luck. It was drained. When I was fully charged, I did try deleting batterystats.bin as well, and apparently that did nothing. I'm about to try a mod for battery calibration. The difference between the time of your post and now, is that we're unlocked and rooted, so the mod would not have worked, then, but POSSIBLY, now. I guess I'll be a guinea pig, here.

JOSHSKORN said:
Your post was written on the same day that the Retail unlock was released, about maybe 6 hours earlier, and I'm just noticing this post this morning. First of all, I'm actually now on CM13. Secondly, I've disabled any automatic screen dimming at 5% and 15%. I still get warnings, which I do swipe away. My phone did reboot when it thought it got down to zero, only to find out that I was at 11%. I continued to drain again to 0%, tried to start up, no luck. It was drained. When I was fully charged, I did try deleting batterystats.bin as well, and apparently that did nothing. I'm about to try a mod for battery calibration. The difference between the time of your post and now, is that we're unlocked and rooted, so the mod would not have worked, then, but POSSIBLY, now. I guess I'll be a guinea pig, here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I saw that you mentioned in the other thread about someone had posted a beta file. I believe that you are absolutely correct. I'll do my best to dig around and see if I can find that file for us to test. I have tried depleting my battery literally till 0% is true. At that point I checked the mv on the battery and then fully charged using no fast charge cycle and also without turning the device. I have 5 converted DE's and now 6 true DE's. I'm going to test each device at the same time to get an average and also a very accurate account on the validation of the battery stats. Lol at the guinea pig that you mentioned. I've felt that way too. I'll start testing the devices at the same time in the morning about 8:00 am here in Hawaii. I'll report back what my findings are. Post back your findings and I'll do the same. Hopefully we can modify the file properly to meet the requirements for us Zero Lemon users.

Android.Ninja said:
Hey, I saw that you mentioned in the other thread about someone had posted a beta file. I believe that you are absolutely correct. I'll do my best to dig around and see if I can find that file for us to test. I have tried depleting my battery literally till 0% is true. At that point I checked the mv on the battery and then fully charged using no fast charge cycle and also without turning the device. I have 5 converted DE's and now 6 true DE's. I'm going to test each device at the same time to get an average and also a very accurate account on the validation of the battery stats. Lol at the guinea pig that you mentioned. I've felt that way too. I'll start testing the devices at the same time in the morning about 8:00 am here in Hawaii. I'll report back what my findings are. Post back your findings and I'll do the same. Hopefully we can modify the file properly to meet the requirements for us Zero Lemon users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if this is significant or not but the manual states the capacity at 3.85V/3850mV. The Battery Calibration app I tried this morning said my battery was about 4380mV at 100%. I don't think that this was correct on the app's part. I could be wrong. What do you think? BTW, I'm at 58% right now after 9 hours of heavy use, I don't think that's right.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

3850 from 4380, that is a good difference. What app did you use? I'll check using another app and we'll compare results. However also thinking about it, if I remember correctly, 3850mV should be correct. I was an original tester for ZeroLemon thats based out of china. They use BaxtelWireless as their Wholesaler / Distributor who is located in lower Texas, and I signed up as a tester / reviewer for them when they first started implementing the battery. BaxtelWireless contacted me later on to test out the battery. The only thing I really dislike, is the fact that it's a tri-cell battery and not single cell. if I remember correctly. They mentioned they were working on the possibility of making a single cell, however I'm positive the price would also increase of they do. After checking I think that 3850mV should be correct, but let me ask someone who works there to get a definite answer. I'll get back with you.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I got the 3850 figure from the manual
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 PM ----------
Lookup Battery Calibration on the play store, it's by NeMa. That's what I used.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

@47%, 3924mV.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Yup, that's what I'm seeing as well. 3850mV is what they say it should be.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Have a look at this thread. This is the guy I was referring to that was trying to make a mod for this battery. I don't really understand what all he was doing but I don't think he's supported it in almost a year.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/not...nt/reserved-zerolemon-fuel-gauge-fix-t3131705

I feel like I've made some small progress, but honestly, I doubt it. Still seeing the 1% problem. I don't know if that will ever iron itself out or not.
First discharge:
my phone turned off at 0%
I turned it back on, it had 11% left over.
Both occasions, @1%, draining the battery seemed like an eternity.
Did not test battery pull
Tried using BatteryCalibration from the Play Store, it did nothing.
Second Discharge:
Battery drained down to 0% the first time through
Battery Pull did nothing. Turning off and on did nothing. Battery was in fact, dead.
Calibrated using Battery HD Pro. (I think you can do the same calibration with the free version but I'm not sure)
1% battery drain seemed like an eternity, again
I have my phone plugged in, now and I'm going to let it charge for about 21 hours before I turn it on, again. I'll check it when I get home from work in the evening.
Question: Would there be any difference in using the stock charger vs the charger that came with previous Note's with different voltages? I don't know enough about electricity to understand this or not.

thanks to OP for sharing!
i have an original samsung battery charger.
could i use it to charge my zerolemon 18-24hrs for those first 5 charges, while i use my phone with my old original 3220 mAh batteries in the meantime?

After the 5 cycles of 18-24 hrs of charging will I always charge this battery for 18hrs or more and do I always charge it with the fast charging off? After the 5 cycles will my note 4 % sign read true. Any help would be appreciated thanks.

Android.Ninja said:
When charging The ZeroLemon battery, you should always charge at the "Lowest Amperage" meaning Fast charge should "always" be turned OFF when charging any ZeroLemon batteries. Leaving the fast charge turned on will charge the battery faster, of course. However, it will "kill" the ZeroLemon battery over time, reducing it's charging life to a mere crappy timespan, and also reducing it's ability to distribute a charge for the device over the original intended time cycle. >This info is straight from ZeroLemon themselves. This is not just my opinion.<I have purchased many batteries from ZeroLemon, on my business account, and this is what they themselves, and their USA distributor instructed us to do for the absolute best performance of their battery.
Another thing to keep in mind is when charging the battery on the slow, non fast charge cycle. To always charge with the phone off. No, this isn't so the phone can charge the battery faster. It's so the battery will get the "Full Charge" it's intended to receive. What do I mean, you might ask? When charging the OEM factory battery, the software is programmed to look at the /data/system/batterystats.bin file to determine calculative information and statistical information about the battery itself. This information guides the system on where the battery is at its charge cycle along with various other related task.
Zerolemon clearly states: "Shut down, plug in the power supply and charge until full. (Preferably continuously charge overnight to ensure maximum power. Remember to not switch the phone on, until battery is fully charged.)"
So how do you know if this monster of a battery is fully charged? Well, there's a couple ways. You can look at the whitepapers or on the battery and get the full amperage/voltage cycle information, or you can simply use some simple math to determine what amount charge you're charging at and then determine the amount of hours it will take for a complete full charge.
Now, I can make this a little easy for you and help you out with this. If the battery is brand new, meaning it just literally arrived and you just opened it from the box. Charge for afull 12-18 hoursfor the first charge. Do this with the phone off. When you hit that time mark, you can turn the phone on for use. Now keep in mind I said 18-24 hours for the first charge. Since Zerolemon sends out the battery with some bit of a charge on it, it's impossible to get the exact amount of charge for sure. So when in doubt, charge it fully out. That means 18-24 hours. Yes, yes, that's one hell of a long charge. But let me tell you. I use my phone all day. Full screen brightness, everything turned on, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, etc. Watch videos, games, hit the forums, obviously . And I always get 3 to 4 days of use. That's right baby. 3 to 4 days of use. The secret is the long slow charge. These batteries are not single cell, they are a tricell makeup. The slower and longer the charge, the longer the battery will last.
Now back to the charging cyle info. You've already charged the phone up completely for the first time. Now use that sucka! And I mean use it till it completely gets to 5% and the system forces you that crappy power save mode where it dims the display etc. Power the phone off. Remove just enough of the rubber TPU case to lift up the battery from the contacts. Count to 3, then replace the battery, TPU, etc. Don't be shocked when you power it back on and you've got 80% full battery again. Remember this is a tricell, so it doesn't report correctly what the exact amperage/voltage is to the android system. Now continue to use the battery and repeat until the battery is at 5% all the time when reinserting it again.
Now, the step above is where everyone messes up and just depletes the battery to 5% only "one time" and then goes to charge the battery again. Don't do it! You're cheating yourself out of precious battery life.Follow the above cycle exactly as I said and you'll be thanking me later, that I promise. If you've already had the battery for a while and been charging it incorrectly, don't worry. Deplete the battery as outlined above, then charge for 18-24 hours, remove battery, insert battery, repeat till stays continually at 5% then recharge.
OK. Now let's move on. Once you continually hit that 5%, Start the charge cycle over again by charging the phone with Fast Charge turned OFF, the full 18-24 hours. Then repeat the steps outlined above again.
>>IT'S EXTREMELY IMPERATIVE THAT YOU DO THIS 5 CYCLES.<< (Sorry for the caps, but really need to stress the importance of this.)
Once you have completed the five cycles, you're on your way to always leaving that blasted charger at home, and never again being thought of as a "Wall Hugger" if you've seen the commercials .
=> Don’t stop charging even it shows 100% charged. And if you're seeing this 100%, then you didn't turn off the phone during the charge as indicated above, lol. A true "Full Charge" is only performed when the battery has been charged for 18-24 hours.
Charging Scenario
When you are doing the first "5 Full charge and Deplete cycles", the phone must be powered "off" while charging. This is due to the android operating system and the Note 4 thinking the phone is fully charged when it reaches 100% even though in reality it's truly not. The Zerolemon battery may only be in reality at 30%, 40%, 50%, etc. Remember, the device believes it has the OEM factory battery in it, and not the massive Zerolemon battery. Unfortunately if you're not rooted with a Developers Edition Note 4, it cannot differentiate between the two batteries. So for the first 5 full charges, (this is referred to as the conditioning of the battery,) turn the phone off when charging.
Now after the 5 cycles have been completed, and the conditioning has been done. You can charge the battery with the phone on. However its important to remember that:
1. When your little battery icon shows full, or if you have the battery % on, & it shows 100%, don't stop charging. It thinks you have the Factory OEM battery in place. To ensure that you have a "True Full Charge" the total noninterrupted charge time must be no shorter than 18 hours and no more than 24, if the battery is truly fully depleted.
2. Properly charging a battery of this size works as follows. The battery has been charged 18-24 hours and is fully charged. You use the device depleting the battery over a period of a few days, while in the process, when it hits 5% you remove the battery and then reinsert as mentioned earlier, then continue to use the device till the battery is actually fully depleted. This means the phone won't power on anymore.
Now at this point, you'd start the charging process again, for 18-24 hours.
Do not charge at every day or every night just because the battery is a little low. (Because almost devices are powerful hungry and batteries depletion is very quick, people are in a habit of just throwing it on charge whenever and however.) Only charge when the device is completely and fully powerless.
Routinely charging the Zerolemon battery in different increments will cause a severe and nonreversible battery retention that will prevent the battery from not only being able to give full use, but prevent it from being able to be fully charged anymore.
TIPS:
Zerolemon batteries for the Note 4 are notorious for prematurely shutting down the phone by means of loss of power if the phone is dropped or in some cases even bumped. The reason this occurs is because their is a small discrepancy in the exact battery size where the contacts meet the pins on the phone. In layman's terms, the Zerolemon battery is just a bit short. No, it's not gonna fall out of the back of the TPU case or anything like that. However, if you drop the phone, or even in some reported cases, bump the phone, the Zerolemons battery loses connection with the gold contacts from the device from within the battery compartment.
Reports have been made to Zerolemon concerning the issue, however Zerolemon has failed still yet, to resolve the problem accordingly. Most likely because just a simple change of plan, would literally open the door for thousands of recalls, refunds, etc, not to mention cost thousands of dollars to remap the sizing and make the correction to future batteries.
Well with this said, all is not lost. I've found, if you remove the TPU case, leaving the battery in place, you can insert a small shim of paper at the proper place, and this will totally resolve and eliminate the problem 100%.
You can use paper, plastic, Thin gasket material etc. Whichever is most convenient for you at the time.
The proper placing of the paper is crucial. Because you don't want to cover up the path to the speaker phone compartment any more than it already is.
Here's the easiest way to fix it.
Power off your phone. Now remove the TPU case and lay the phone carefully screen down so the battery compartment is facing upwards. Position the phone where the bottom of the battery compartment is closest to you, and the camera is furthest from you. Now remove the battery. On the bottom right side of the battery compartment you will want to insert your paper, plastic, "fix" etc to the bottom right side of the compartment. The paper thickness I'd recommend would be the thickness of a regular matchbook cover, or about 2 sheets of construction paper. The dimensions I used was about 1/8 inch tall, by 1 inch long. Don't lay the paper flat inside the battery compartment, doing so will cause the battery to be a little "thicker" and not make connection. You will want to "Stand Up" the little piece if paper, or if you're feeling savy enough, permanently afix the paper to the housing. Now when you go to reinsert your Zerolemons battery, you'll notice that it not only actually first a little tighter and snugger, like it should have been on day 1. But it also doesn't let the battery wiggle a little like before. Replace your TPU case, and power on your phone.
I'll upload some pics for you to show you how I did mine. If you got any questions on any of this, just ask.
Don't worry if you're a newby, a senior XDA member, or a Developer. You won't get any flaming or criticizing from me. Asking for help is always welcomed as far as I'm concerned.
The only dumb question is the question that's not asked.
Don't forget to hit the "Thanks Button!"
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18-24 hrs??? seriously???
---------- Post added at 06:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 AM ----------
IssacEsco said:
After the 5 cycles of 18-24 hrs of charging will I always charge this battery for 18hrs or more and do I always charge it with the fast charging off? After the 5 cycles will my note 4 % sign read true. Any help would be appreciated thanks.
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Definitely don't use the Samsung Adaptive Fast Charging adapter if you turn off the phone. Find another charger that is 2.0, otherwise, even if you have fast charging off in the settings...it will fast charge when the phone is charging when it's off and it will say it when you see the charging going on. Read that somewhere else on this forum and he was absolutely correct!

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if your phone believes the battery is at 100% doesn't it stop charging the battery and only draws a trickle charge? what good is leaving your phone plugged in when your phone itself will not charge it fully? there must be a way we can physically charge the battery itself. I'm about to take apart an old charger and alligator it into a regulated power supply. someone stop me if they think that's a bad idea.

How can you turn off your phone and not use it for 12hr+? kind of ridiculous if your cell phone is your main source of contact.....

Hi, I've had my Zerolemon 10000 mAh Battery & case for just over a year. Using it in a Note 4. Not being tech savvy I initially charged it to 100%. and I have done the plug it in every night thing & had it on fast charge. Now, I have a question, since I have done all these things wrong on this battery the battery is running out of charge within 3 to 4 hours at least. Can I reprogram this battery or have I ruined it?

Beckyboombang. said:
Hi, I've had my Zerolemon 10000 mAh Battery & case for just over a year. Using it in a Note 4. Not being tech savvy I initially charged it to 100%. and I have done the plug it in every night thing & had it on fast charge. Now, I have a question, since I have done all these things wrong on this battery the battery is running out of charge within 3 to 4 hours at least. Can I reprogram this battery or have I ruined it?
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I would also like to know