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Please forgive me/move thread if this is the inappropriate forum. I couldn't decide for 10 minutes, so I decided to go with the dev forum.
The FM radio: Is it going to be impossible to get it working on the N1? From what I understand the current state of play, devs have got the app working, it scans and finds stations, but it's as though the audio lines are physically not connected up (is this accurate?).
Could it be a limitation of the Alpha status of the Desire ROM being examined?
i think it is radio's fault
if google give us a new radio with fm and maybe some extra mb ram it will work just fine
eesmm said:
Please forgive me/move thread if this is the inappropriate forum. I couldn't decide for 10 minutes, so I decided to go with the dev forum.
The FM radio: Is it going to be impossible to get it working on the N1? From what I understand the current state of play, devs have got the app working, it scans and finds stations, but it's as though the audio lines are physically not connected up (is this accurate?).
Could it be a limitation of the Alpha status of the Desire ROM being examined?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure the N1 doesn't have an FM receiver in it.
And if you don't have the hardware, you don't have the hardware. Software can't magically make up for it.
It'd be like trying to get an FM signal out of a toaster.
Paul22000 said:
I'm pretty sure the N1 doesn't have an FM receiver in it.
And if you don't have the hardware, you don't have the hardware. Software can't magically make up for it.
It'd be like trying to get an FM signal out of a toaster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has the hardware...there is a Gizmodo (think it was them) teardown of N1. Discusses the FM capabilities. Also...Desire and N1 have same hardware on the inside (different trackball feature and buttons..but the same). There are posts around the forums confirming this by Modaco and some others.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/06/nexus-one-teardown-reveals-possible-802-11n-radio-and-fm-transmi/ was Ifixit.com, reported on engadget
Paul22000 said:
I'm pretty sure the N1 doesn't have an FM receiver in it.
[...]
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Click to collapse
The Nexus One features a Broadcom BCM4329 chipset with "IEEE 802.11 a/b/g/n system (MAC/baseband/radio) with Bluetooth® 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate), and FM radio receiver and transmitter" (according to Broadcom's product page).
It may not be fully connected up, or it may just be a software issue (hence my asking in this thread) but the hardware is in there.
eesmm said:
The Nexus One features a Broadcom BCM4329 chipset with "IEEE 802.11 a/b/g/n system (MAC/baseband/radio) with Bluetooth® 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate), and FM radio receiver and transmitter" (according to Broadcom's product page).
It may not be fully connected up, or it may just be a software issue (hence my asking in this thread) but the hardware is in there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What we need is the Desire's completed ROM, and might need it's headphone with built in FM receiver as well. When yo utry and open the FM radio app, it asks you to insert headphones with a FM receiver... well, some have tried and get it to lock on stations, but no sound. Which seems to mean it is a lack of a completed ROM/app, not hardware.
It's possible we may never get this feature working. Not a big deal to me, though. Pandora works fine!
pjcforpres said:
What we need is the Desire's completed ROM, and might need it's headphone with built in FM receiver as well. When yo utry and open the FM radio app, it asks you to insert headphones with a FM receiver... well, some have tried and get it to lock on stations, but no sound. Which seems to mean it is a lack of a completed ROM/app, not hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The headphones don't have the receiver in it. it simply uses the headphone cable as an Antenna just like the iPod Nano's built in radio.
pjcforpres said:
What we need is the Desire's completed ROM, and might need it's headphone with built in FM receiver as well. When yo utry and open the FM radio app, it asks you to insert headphones with a FM receiver... well, some have tried and get it to lock on stations, but no sound. Which seems to mean it is a lack of a completed ROM/app, not hardware.
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Click to collapse
any headphone can act as radio antenna...at least it works in nokia symbian phone. no need to use specific headphone.
faizalmzain said:
any headphone can act as radio antenna...at least it works in nokia symbian phone. no need to use specific headphone.
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Yes and no... if the chip set itself has FM, which the Nexus seems to have, then this is true. But for many "dumb" phones it is the head set itself. This is why I said may need the Desires headphones, and then went on to say it seems more like a lack of a completed ROM/app, since you can tune, just no sound.
would love to see FM radio working on my N1
zmalach said:
would love to see FM radio working on my N1
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Click to collapse
+1... BUMP. And for all of you saying "why would you listen to FM radio? Pandora is way better" there is one show in particular here in town that I can only either stream over the internet (requires flash) or listen on the radio that would be kickass if I could catch over FM on my phone. If i want to listen to music then FM radio is definitely the last place I'll go lookin....
teleknEsis said:
+1... BUMP. And for all of you saying "why would you listen to FM radio? Pandora is way better" there is one show in particular here in town that I can only either stream over the internet (requires flash) or listen on the radio that would be kickass if I could catch over FM on my phone. If i want to listen to music then FM radio is definitely the last place I'll go lookin....
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Click to collapse
That's a good point.
Exactly why I have my ipod Nano..
KEVIN AND BEAN!! I MUST LISTEN TO YOU... oh yea and loveline... only reasons I would want an FM radio...
teleknEsis said:
+1... BUMP. And for all of you saying "why would you listen to FM radio? Pandora is way better" there is one show in particular here in town that I can only either stream over the internet (requires flash) or listen on the radio that would be kickass if I could catch over FM on my phone. If i want to listen to music then FM radio is definitely the last place I'll go lookin....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not available in the UK though.
i hope we can tune in on FM soon....
I'm not sure I would use the FM radio every day, sure, but it's an important feature nonetheless. For fast local news with minimal battery drain there's nothing like having a radio handy.
Many of the on-line radio services are great/better, but require you to use precious data bandwidth, and I resent that. I don't like the idea of my phone being a gateway for the phone company to make more money off me. I spend most of my life within wifi hotspots, and use the cellular web service as little as possible. Apps, audio books, and presynched RSS feeds can pass the remaining time.
For example, I was shopping for an iPhone in the final months of '09, and the cell companies all offered to "unlock" the GPS function of the iPhone "for three months for free". Hang on, I asked, the iPhone has its own GPS, so why a) would I need them to "unlock" the capability and b) I would have to pay for my own GPS after the first three months? I learned that, while the GPS coordinates come for free, the maps are the domain of the cell company. Screw that.
One of the best features of the N1 is the built-in Google maps, and while I might be willing to pay one-time for TomTom maps or software (the best GPS OS imho) but pay every month forever, no way.
I was trying to do a little research in to if I could get the FM transmitter/reciever to work or if it would be even possible. A little google searching around I found this. And the person who had been doing the most work on that part of android was an actual broadcom employee. So I sent him a quick, polite email asking him about FM support in the Nexus one. It is as follows:
"Mr. Harte,
I noticed your commits here. Will Broadcom provide support/drivers for the FM transmitter/receiver in the Nexus One and other Android devices?
Sincerely,
Will"
And his surprisingly helpful and quick response:
"Hello,
The FM receiver is supported in the HTC Incredible and HTC EVO 4G. I’m not sure if the Nexus One hardware supports FM. The 4329 chip has FM, but I don’t know if the external components required for the FM Antenna are populated on the board. I believe there is also some work needed in the kernel to enable the audio path for FM, but if/when HTC open-sources the kernel for the EVO or Incredible, this should be evident. Also, the EVO and Incredible use the Broadcom Bluetooth stack, while the Nexus One uses BlueZ. I don’t think there is any support in BlueZ for FM. I have no idea about FM Transmit, but I would highly doubt it is possible to get that to work…
-Howard"
That makes me sad but at least now I know. Hopefully though this will provide some light to any crafty developers interested tinkering with this.
Shorthand.
Even if the hardware says fm/transmit/receive, we would have to solder, replace the bluetooth stack, and possibly replace the chip firmware to get it to work.
Short, short hand.. NO FM on nexus one.
No really, somehow he neglected to mention the sister Desire.
Regarding the antenna portion, it's been proven that the nexus can find stations. . .just not output any sound from them.
Mi|enko said:
Regarding the antenna portion, it's been proven that the nexus can find stations. . .just not output any sound from them.
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I do remember reading about that. Can you find the source? If thats true, then we know the only problem is the stack.
williamthrilliam said:
I do remember reading about that. Can you find the source? If thats true, then we know the only problem is the stack.
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Click to collapse
Check the notes from Modaco's Desire ROM port. I think it's there. But since FM radio is analog, there may be a lot more to it than a stack.
attn1 said:
Check the notes from Modaco's Desire ROM port. I think it's there. But since FM radio is analog, there may be a lot more to it than a stack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, his bluetooth doesn't work because he is using the Nexus One kernel. Well, we now know what part of the kernel isn't allowing the bluetooth to work; Bluez vs the Broadcom Stack. I don't know the legal implications of using it, but it seems like it would be possible.
Devastatin said:
Shorthand.
Even if the hardware says fm/transmit/receive, we would have to solder, replace the bluetooth stack, and possibly replace the chip firmware to get it to work.
Short, short hand.. NO FM on nexus one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Patently FALSE.
All we need is a kernel with FM support and the FM driver. Receive is definitely possible.
I do believe however that the power amplifier chips for transmitting are absent, so that won't be a possibility.
williamthrilliam said:
Yup, his bluetooth doesn't work because he is using the Nexus One kernel. Well, we now know what part of the kernel isn't allowing the bluetooth to work; Bluez vs the Broadcom Stack. I don't know the legal implications of using it, but it seems like it would be possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Getting an analog tuner that isn't connected to anything to tune is not much help. I don't care what software you write, if there is no output to be captured, it's not going to happen. It's like a cable box with no television connection. It tunes just fine. If the rest of the connecting hardware is there, then there's a shot. But Google has never said there would be FM in the Nexus One at any point. I am less than optimistic.
GldRush98 said:
Patently FALSE.
All we need is a kernel with FM support and the FM driver. Receive is definitely possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That still has not been determined.
or you can go to your favorite radio station's website and click on "listen in" or whatever and now your listening to FM on your phone. =D
or maybe not, thats how it works on my pc..
i dont understand what the bluetooth has anything to do with this? why does it matter the blueZ vs broadcom bluetooth hardware? it sounds like the fm radio portion is there and can even pick up stations with an antenna, just routing the audio. but that doesnt need to happen thru bluetooh, it could happen through the headset or loudspeaker.
RogerPodacter said:
i dont understand what the bluetooth has anything to do with this? why does it matter the blueZ vs broadcom bluetooth hardware? it sounds like the fm radio portion is there and can even pick up stations with an antenna, just routing the audio. but that doesnt need to happen thru bluetooh, it could happen through the headset or loudspeaker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Broadcom BCM4329EKUBG has all of these functions built in. FM, 802.11, bluetooth.
http://www.broadcom.com/products/Bluetooth/Bluetooth-RF-Silicon-and-Software-Solutions/BCM4329
RogerPodacter said:
i dont understand what the bluetooth has anything to do with this? why does it matter the blueZ vs broadcom bluetooth hardware? it sounds like the fm radio portion is there and can even pick up stations with an antenna, just routing the audio. but that doesnt need to happen thru bluetooh, it could happen through the headset or loudspeaker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bluetooth/fm/wifi are all on one chipset.
ChillRays said:
or you can go to your favorite radio station's website and click on "listen in" or whatever and now your listening to FM on your phone. =D
or maybe not, thats how it works on my pc..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the most part yes (esp. with those of us with froyo and flas ). But what made me start searching for this was a tornado that past by me by only a few miles. I luckily was in the car and able to tune in to a station broadcasting the Emergency Broadcasting Systems's message, but I thought it would be nice to be able to do that on my phone.
RogerPodacter said:
i dont understand what the bluetooth has anything to do with this? why does it matter the blueZ vs broadcom bluetooth hardware? it sounds like the fm radio portion is there and can even pick up stations with an antenna, just routing the audio. but that doesnt need to happen thru bluetooh, it could happen through the headset or loudspeaker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Integrated circuits perform multiple functions. That broadcom chip could do a lot more than blue tooth. FM is analog. If all you have is the tuner and there is no connecting hardware, then yeah, you receive a signal, but it's going nowhere. If you can't capture the output, you can't use it. Do we know if the FM radio signal in the Desire is ever digitized? It could work like a regular FM radio and the digital/software part is for tuning purposes only and radio itself is analog. I read somewhere is that the HTC FM radios require wired headset use - and don't play back through blue tooth. Irony there, I think. Speculation is that is because they are used for an antenna, but I think it could also be that it's because it's an analog output. I am guessing the N1 is missing all the required circuits - except the tuner.
attn1 said:
Integrated circuits perform multiple functions. That broadcom chip could do a lot more than blue tooth. FM is analog. If all you have is the tuner and there is no connecting hardware, then yeah, you receive a signal, but it's going nowhere. If you can't capture the output, you can't use it. Do we know if the FM radio signal in the Desire is ever digitized? It could work like a regular FM radio and the digital/software part is for tuning purposes only and radio itself is analog. I read somewhere is that the HTC FM radios require wired headset use - and don't play back through blue tooth. Irony there, I think. Speculation is that is because they are used for an antenna, but I think it could also be that it's because it's an analog output. I am guessing the N1 is missing all the required circuits - except the tuner.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true of the Touch Pro hardware at least. The FM Radio wouldn't function with out the headphones plugged in. It used the headphone wire as the antenna.
there is a great thread going in the nexus development area where some people are trying to write the kernel so that the sound has an output. It sounds like they are making great progress maybe anyone reading this thread who has some technical skills can help. I believe they too have been able to tune the phone to a station but not output the sound yet.
It seems to me we need definitive answers to the following 2 questions from HTC / Google ...
Q1. Does the nexus one have the necessary hardware and interconnections for FM radio reception and output through either the speaker or headphones. YES/NO?
Q2. Does the nexus one have the necessary hardware and interconnections for FM radio transmission of any type (music / voice). YES/NO?
If both answers are a definitive NO, we can move on. If there is a YES then the clever people here, who make the magic happen, have some hope of success.
Does anyone know the correct ppl at HTC / Google to ask these questions of?
I don’t have anything to add but would like to encourage you guys in your endeavour to get FM radio working on the N1 and also point you too or remind you what androidpolice reported at Google I/O
If this is true then perhaps all the building blocks are in place.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/0...nity-as-our-best-bet-post-google-io-coverage/
sd00 said:
It seems to me we need definitive answers to the following 2 questions from HTC / Google ...
Q1. Does the nexus one have the necessary hardware and interconnections for FM radio reception and output through either the speaker or headphones. YES/NO?
Q2. Does the nexus one have the necessary hardware and interconnections for FM radio transmission of any type (music / voice). YES/NO?
If both answers are a definitive NO, we can move on. If there is a YES then the clever people here, who make the magic happen, have some hope of success.
Does anyone know the correct ppl at HTC / Google to ask these questions of?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or maybe we just need to think and use the info that we have in other threads on the subject. But I'll repeat things written in another thread, by myself and other guys:
Q1. Broadcom chip brief (the best doc available for it on the net) clearly shows the radio having no separate connections but using BT's high speed UART and I2C. The interconnects are the same, and since Paul's Desire port has radio control working - that means I2C is working too, so the answer is YES.
Q2. The stated output power of the chip is good enough for short-range transmission w/o a dedicated antenna, using headphone cord. The control and data are given in the same way as in Q1. So, the answer is YES again, but with more trouble - while there is a working device utilizing FM receiver functionality, which can at least theoretically be ported completely using its source, there is no device with FM transmitter, which means - if someone wants to use transmitter, that someone needs to acquire specific Broadcom documents for the chip.
So I guess the thread can be laid to rest, and anyone that can really help - for example, to go over Desire source and figure out the correct setting for QSD UART to receive FM audio and the procedures to stream it to the speaker - are welcome to head over to Dev section.
This is more of an FYI post than anything else; ifixit tore down the Atrix this morning and it was detemined that it contains the Broadcom BCM4329 wifi/bluetooth chipset; which DOES include FM radio with RDS.
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Atrix-4G-Teardown/4964/2
http://www.broadcom.com/products/Bluetooth/Bluetooth-RF-Silicon-and-Software-Solutions/BCM4329
So it is there, think it will be enabled with an update like I heard the Droid X did?
Man I really hope so. This is a no brainer.
Who cares? Radio Zzzzzz that's why Pandora etc. exists. FM is lame, crap quality and commercial bloated.
Any added feature is welcome and there are people who like to listen to radio DJs and talk shows.
yeah i love the local morning radio here and would like the fm app since its not listed on tunein
I care. Not necessarily for listening to Top 40 radio, but getting local traffic, weather, emergency information without having to rely on Internet access through ATT. Second, my local gym broadcasts TV sound over FM.
According to the Broadcom specs. this chip can also transmit over FM (perhaps to car FM for listening to stored music?). So why waste a bunch of $ for a clunky FM transmitter when it's built right in to the phone?
Somebody out there must have the technical prowess to figure it out.
crawlgsx said:
Who cares? Radio Zzzzzz that's why Pandora etc. exists. FM is lame, crap quality and commercial bloated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most people don't care about listening *TO* FM radio...it's about broadcasting *ON* FM radio. The ability to broadcast your music over FM means you could play music in your car without plugging it in or using bluetooth.
Looking at how at&t went far and beyond to cripple this phone, i doubt they will enable anything on it.
Disable more features with the upcoming update is more likely.
Install Tunein radio. Most stations stream over the internet and this app makes it nice and simple to grab these radio stations.
kenyu73 said:
Install Tunein radio. Most stations stream over the internet and this app makes it nice and simple to grab these radio stations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your suggestion, but I already have Tunein Radio, however there are some stations which I like to listen to which are not available on that app. Also, where I live, Internet Access comes and goes so I cannot do my walk/run without constant interruption with Tunein Radio.
Hopefully there will be some sore of remedy soon like what they have done with other Motorola phones.
Ridiculous that FM isn't enabled. I bought mine a week ago and just assumed it had FM since my last 3 phones had it. Never thought it wouldn't so didn't check! I've got an awesome local station called The Current that I can't live without and really don't care to risk data overage charges just to listen to it on my phone. Silly ATT.
Well not everyone uses Atrix on AT&T. I use Simple Mobile, which is on T-Mobile, and can only use EDGE. So FM receiver are very welcome (also transmitter).
I'll use my example here: Also Atrix was just made available in Thailand where Internet radio is really unpopular. Although that there are several 3G providers in Thailand, the quality and consistency are on the low par. More than that, the 3G coverage is very limited. On the other hand, traditional FM radio is very very common and popular across the country so phones without FM capabilities are the first to be easily cut off from the customer's choices.
i should mention that the bcm4329 also has inbuilt fm TRANSMITTER ability which ive never seen enabled on any device as yet though
the atrix doesnt have an RF chip and an antenna for the FM radio, so it FM radio is quite surely not doable as such
the fm is part of the bcm4329 module, and the antenna is usually the headphones
it makes me angry that this phone has so many features that cant even be used
You can use TuneIn radio....
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Magoodigan said:
it makes me angry that this phone has so many features that cant even be used
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Click to collapse
What else is there that can't be used?
The locked bootloader isn't really a disabled feature, it's just a locked gateway into the development of more efficient ROMS.
I assume he is talking about the hdmi webtop that is disabled unless you buy the expensive dock.
the tvs at my gym broadcast on fm, id appreciate this considering i still cant use netflix so im formatting and adding/deleting tv shows to watch on the treadmill every couple of days now
I was wondering if it is possible to use the FM chip in the phone and use it as an FM transmitter (like the n97)
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.
Basically no.
For a start, you'd need a chipset capable of transmitting via FM as well as receiving. Just because you can do one, it doesn't mean you can do the other.
Even if the chipset is capable, for it then to work, it'd need to have the necessary drivers installed, which is maybe doable.
It'd also then need an antenna attached to the transmission pin-out on the chipset, which is extremely unlikely to be in place.
So technically it might be possible but in reality it's not - unless SE just happen to have built a fully-functional FM transmitter into the Arc and just forgotten to activate it...
I think we have a chance to activate the FM transmitter in our phones..
At least we should give a shot?
The BCM4329 has FM Tx & Rx abilities. The Rx part is not used, but maybe we can use the Tx part?
Unfortunately, google doesn't help a lot.
I know that our galaxy S i9000 uses a Si4709 chip for the FM reception, so that's not good for the transmit part.
does somebody have any useful info about this?
i would definitely do everything i could to make this work. this should be the biggest hit feature...
this is a problem for me too.... amy someone helps us...
That was discussed a long time ago without any progress.
Apparently we can't use the FM transmitter if there is one inside SGS
why can't we? what does stops the devs?
orenzah said:
why can't we? what does stops the devs?
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First it's not easy without manufacturer's cooperation to have access to the chips and phone documentation, so how to create the drivers drivers ...
Secondly don't even know if physically it could work (for example the transmitter would need a antenna...).
i think the problem was no connection of some pins of whatever - use search option
the antenna issue i think it's not the most problem, I think the not connected pins is more complicated if that is true.
FM transmitter could be nice, but like it seems Samsung probably didn't connect the relevant pins for transmitting audio.