There are quite a few 4.8" umpc's on the market, with faster processors and various os.
How do they compare to the Advantage in regard to internet, office and outlook?
The wm browsers have fit to screen or one column options. What happens with the small umpc's?
arie_i said:
There are quite a few 4.8" umpc's on the market, with faster processors and various os.
How do they compare to the Advantage in regard to internet, office and outlook?
The wm browsers have fit to screen or one column options. What happens with the small umpc's?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me, I have a laptop, a umpc, a pocketpc and a mobile phone.
Umpc vs pocketpc?
pocket pc can INSTANT ON/OFF in a way that not even hibernate or stanby can match. This makes pocketpc the best 24/7 anytime/ anywhere gadget for reading ebooks and typing down ideas, listening to music, using few things related to WIFI.
My only wish is that i can find a good enough program to do powerpoint slides editing using my pocketpc. For powerpoint work, i still use my umpc whenever i am outside. I have never found a good enough powerpoint editing program that I can use in my pocket pc. Viewers. yes but editing no. Will appreciate if someone can recommend or can create such a program.
The only thing to do is have a play around with some UMPCs- having used an original Asus EEE (which has similar specs and screen resolution to the UMPCs I've seen) I'd say it depends on what you want it for.
The Athena has crazy battery life, a good enough screen, can edit office stuff, good for email, plays video fantastically well, is pretty fast, and with Opera Mini 5 finally has a decent web browser.
A UMPC has all of these, and will run standard desktop applications but will have rubbish battery life.
Conclusion is- it'll depend entirely on what you need it for!
Personally I wouldn't drop £400-500 on a UMPC as I don't think they do more than I'd want from my Athena, but if I needed something bigger I'd be tempted to pick up a cheap 7" screened EEE again. Currently I find a Samsung NC-10, an Athena and a HTC Hero more than cover me for my portable needs.
The Athena and other WM-devices suck when it comes to browsing:
- low resolution (640x480 up to 800x480 on newer devices)
- huge waste of screen due to windows frame, URL-toolbar, status-bar, etc. or lack of all those when in full-screen view
- lack of Flash and Java support
- too little memory - surfing in forums quite often result in out of memory
- too slow
UMPC's suffer as well:
- too expensive
- either low screen resolution or too many DPI's to be readable
- though they have a fast CPU compared to WM, they have to run Windows XP/Vista and that turns them slow again
I own a lot of devices, as I kind of collect them...
Apart from the phones in my signature, I also own:
- Asus R2H
- Asus Eee PC 701
- Asus Eee PC 1000H
My experience says:
1) If you want a USABLE and RELIABLE phone, that simply works, entertains you and gets you to do some mails and internet browsing, then go for the iPhone. It is fast, responsive, huge usability and the best web-surfing experience in any phone I tried so far.
2) If you need to work on the road, prepare PowerPoints, do serious e-mails, etc., then get yourself a cheap netbook with 10" screen and 6 cell battery.
Cheers,
vma
May be the OP wants to clarify if he really wishes to compare UMPC to Athena or the more comparable MID vs Athena?
One poster said UMPC has "rubbish battery life" which is only true, but it is because those UMPC was yesterday designed, and not many newer UMPC have been built.
UMPC is defined as Ultra Mobile PC, which is coined by Microsoft, so mostly it is used to described Windows XP Tablet Edition OS devices. Similar form factor devices are appearing on the market again, but they are simply called tablets.
What Athena should be compared to, because of similar form factor, should be MID, which stands for Mobile Internet Device. MID can run Windows XP, or Linux, or other systems, and doesn't have a platform specific thing.
For example, my Samsung Q1 is an UMPC, and it has a 7" screen. For example, my BenQ S6 is a MID, and it has a 4.8" screen. One runs XP Tablet Edition (factory) and one runs XP Home (factory). My Q1 has only a 2 hour battery life (now only 1 hour as the battery wore out) w/ a 3 cell (factory) battery. My S6 has a 4 - 6 hour battery, while having a much smaller Li-poly battery pack, with much less capacity than the one inside the Q1. So you can see, it is not a fair comparison when you compare UMPC vs Athena and compare MID vs Athena.
I own all 3 types.
Fast and slow are all relative, I tell you.
WM can wake up in a flash, so you call it fast. But then if you want to play a high quality video, or Adobe Flash, it just doesn't have enough processing power, then you call it slow. Let's define what you mean by fast and slow.
Windows XP takes forever to boot, so you call it slow. But most modern device, including the lowly Atom CPU, even the low end Z series, can at least play some Flash videos without a lot of problems. So you call that fast? So what is true? Is it fast or slow?
The Atom Z series platform (in various netbooks and MIDs), can do standby to on in very quick time (about 2 sec). It is also very good on battery life, with very low power consumption, especially in idle or standby. That's why I wish the OP was trying to compare MID to Athena, because UMPC is just an orphaned platform without any new entries lately, and thus is a very poor case for going to battle here.
I disagree that the Athena "has crazy battery life" if you meant "great". When I had it on with 3G enabled, it didn't really last very long. Worst if you have Push enabled, or even pull (either way). I did read about the ROM making a diff. but in the earlier days, all I used was factory ROM, so there is nobody else to blame if that's the case.
I do agree with vma in general. I now use an iPhone for my daily phone, and I own 2 netbooks, with 1 having a 6 cell battery. They are the bread and butter of my assortment of equipments at my disposal (which is a lot), which I use the most in a real portable / mobile situation. iPhone as a daily phone and data device, while netbooks being used in meetings / gatherings etc.
I also will take out my Athena or my MID (S6) just to fill the gap, if the situation requires, but this gap is like a niche, so they don't get used very often because of that. For example, if I have to walk more than drive, and thus don't want to carry even a netbook, but at the same time I really need to have Windows (native, remote won't cut it case), then I have no choice but to carry the MID w/ XP (S6). But that doesn't really happen too often. More and more apps are available on iPhone that slowly replaced even some of the very niche apps on Windows.
Athena is worse, there is even less niche that I must have WM w/ me nowadays. Most apps have been replaced, and fewer required. For example, having a connected Garmin Mobile XT is nice, but I already own a GPS nav plus software on my iPhone, so I need WM even less even it does give me that combo, but it is not absolutely necessary. It is just nice to have (an also do case).
The saving grace of the Athena is SkyFire and Opera Mini 5 (compiled binary version especially), and latest cooked ROM on 6.5.x. Otherwise, the Athena is really outdated. Many apps are already duplicated and I can't think of any that still remains a huge advantage (no pun intended) on the Athena, except one (which is a niche app, most people don't need / use it, as it caters to only certain kind of people).
With all that said, Athena still has one slight advantage (no pun intended), and that is if you have a pretty stable environment / system, you don't really have to worry about maintenance down the road unless you add / subtract things from it. If it is stable, it should remain so, as the system doesn't get much changes, unlike XP which has constant security problems and thus updates and this and that. iPhone being a very fluid environment only because there are a lot of new updates which are either essential in order to have some new highly anticipated features (hard to ignore), and then apps compatibility afterwards. With Athena, if you can tolerate not having new ROMs or apps, and use it as a stable appliance, and you can actually achieve a stable env to begin with (not always the case, WM is not that stable, the more apps you install, the less stable it becomes), then it is rather reliable. Look at CE Embedded, many GPS nav platforms use that as the base core OS and it's stable. It's only unknown apps can affect it.
I can maintain my XP well, but it takes efforts etc. I also maintain my iPhone from time to time, but not as often, but each updates is a new battle to test everything once over again, lots of time and stuff. For Athena, it used to be like that, but now since one should find a stable ROM and be content with, then it's ok. But that may be because there aren't any new killer apps out there, that demands the newer versions of ROM / OS version, so it is no longer an issue.
But it doesn't necessary make it easy though. I struggled to make Athena stable and for the longest time, WM is very hard to tame (worst of all handheld platforms IMHO!).
I'd say, if you are very good in maintaining Windows (like XP), an XP based MID is actually a very good choice today, with the new Atom Z (or even N) series CPU. You just can't expect it to be a phone for voice stuff (even if so, I can't trust XP to be 100% reliable in voice handling), as a data only device. And that can replace Athena as a similiar size platform.
For example, my S6 is about the same size as the Athena except longer (should say wider, but the longest side), if Athena is in its leather case w/ keyboard. However, I can strip down my Athena w/o keyboard and leather case, and it becomes very thin, (and no protection), but I can't strip down my S6 any further. It is also hotter if run long also.
As for UMPC, I don't know if XP will be able to compete still, as there are surprising few new models as compared to Linux / Android based ones coming out these day. I found Vista very unsuitable (for just about anything) and even Windows 7 doesn't provide the efficiency like XP can (battery life, graphics performance), and only provide a bit more convenience, but tax a lot more resources that is not worth it in a low power, low resource small device. Leave the W7 to more powerful computers.
It all comes down to what apps you need to run. If you have apps that only is avail on one platform, you probably don't have a choice. If you only need popular apps that are avail on all platforms, then you have lots of choices and lots of debates.
But one thing is sure: if you need powerful stuff, even some video playback, just don't kid yourself, the Athena can't cut it, I tried pretty much everything. Even the Z500 + GMA500, considered the lowest end on an Intel based platform, will beat the Athena playing videos. Browsing is the same also. There is just so much an ARM based CPU can do, especially without modern GPU on the side (The ATi chip is really not helping much in the Athena, despite the brand behind it).
If I have to choose today, I'd take iPhone + netbook like vma said. But if I have other needs, then I'd take iPhone + MID, or iPhone + UMPC. My WM devices are now niche devices today, changed their roles from their past, no longer the centre.
Related
I know I'm always on the lookout for the next best thing in mobile (and I do mean mobile) computing.
I'm sure "some" of you are of similar mind.
One day when walking around my favorite computer center I found this little thing http://raondigital.com/fnt_english/
It is truly a real UMPC. 4.8" LCD with up to 1024x576 resolution (native LCD res. 800x480).
The CPU, although slow in Mhz, is very responsive. I was surprised how well it ran when doing
all the usual "on the run" stuff, like emailing, messaging, web-surfing, some document editing
and watching/listening to media. The standard battery gives you 5 hours of good use, not the stated 7 hours.
What I liked most though is that it is a fully functioning mobile computer. You can install any OS on it except Apples OS'.
Dual booting worked well with WinXP Pro and Fedora Core 6. Some functions are unavailable under Linux though.
Another very nice thing was the built-in optical mouse. It worked as well as any other regular mouse.
The keyboard had good responsive keys and even though they are small it is accurate enough so
you can type fairly quick in landscape mode. In portrait mode the qwerty layout makes it awkward.
The screen auto-rotates! Just flip the device and the screen follows, and it follows quickly. There is no lag at all.
The big drawback though is that there is no SIM module built in, and the optional module is not available,
so it falls a bit short compared to the Athenas all in one design. The optional SIM (HSDPA) module will sell for
a hefty US$ 250 apparently.
The device is cheap though. Retail price was only US$ 900 with the top specs (the S60H), without the SSD.
If I didn't have the Athena, I would have bought this one in a heart beat.
Overall IMHO the Athena beats it, but only because it has the SIM part built in and that it is instant on
(the Everun takes ~25 seconds to turn on from hibernation).
I also had a closer look at the Everun and at the OQO Model 2
(http://www.oqo.com/intl/products/modele2/features.html).
It would be great to have a "real" operating system on a pocketable device,
but neither of the above mentionned has the functions of a modern mobile phone: GSM, Camera with Light and GPS.
The Athena i imho a great combination,
because it has all these functions you expect from a modern mobile/smartphone,
and it can still be used as mini-laptop because of the 5" Screen and the comparatively good CPU/RAM/HDD.
In fact there is so many software availabe for WM05/06, that
most of the jobs can be done using different software than on xp/vista/linux/bsd
---
But you could still carry arroud two devices:
One small HSDPA capable smartphone and one of these really small UMPCs.
From Ubermobile:
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/01/viliv_umpc_is_extremely_portable.html
Similar slider/keyboard format as Shift, but:
- Menlo processor (good for battery life, bad for speed)
- Looks like Windows XP option (my preference)
- Assuming same screen as its brother, it will have 7" 1024 x 600, 16million vs 256k colors
- Same HDD options as Shift
- Only 512mb memory (expandable?) vs 1gb not expandable
- WAN optional only with external modem (actually my prefernce, since I'll use my HSPDA phone - HTC Trinity - as a tethered modem rather than pay for 2x data plans)
- GPS (sirfStar III, not that POS Qualcomm i have in my Trinity that is probably in the Shift)
- Estimated MSRP of $700-$800 vs. $1,600 for Shift
So, no Snapvue, no phone guts, and with an estimated ship date of 3Q2008, it'll probably beat the Shift to the shelves!!! <grin>
Man, waiting until 3Q (assuming they really do this and do it on time) would be painful, but if it comes in with the specs they list, it could be the winner for me.
Mike
seems quite bad .. i would say 40% of interest of the shift is in that one .. but maybe it's nice for you.
the Shift is not the perfect devise for everyone ... so maybe this device is for you
landshark said:
- Menlo processor (good for battery life, bad for speed)
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Menlo processor 1,86 GHz - A110 800 MHz
Am I missing something ?
Hey MM -
My understanding is although the Menlo is running at a higher clock speed, it is a different architecture so a higher clock speed doesn't really translate into faster performance. I did some internet searching (sorry, didn't save the links) which suggest that the Menlo referenced here will be about the same as the Stealy A110 which is the 800mhz version included in the Shift.
Of course, it should have much lower power consumption, so maybe we could get better than 2hrs out of the battery.
why not oQo e2? it's good and have most of shift ability
landshark said:
Hey MM -
My understanding is although the Menlo is running at a higher clock speed, it is a different architecture so a higher clock speed doesn't really translate into faster performance. I did some internet searching (sorry, didn't save the links) which suggest that the Menlo referenced here will be about the same as the Stealy A110 which is the 800mhz version included in the Shift.
Of course, it should have much lower power consumption, so maybe we could get better than 2hrs out of the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very interesting!!!
Thanks Mike
koala996 said:
seems quite bad .. i would say 40% of interest of the shift is in that one .. but maybe it's nice for you.
the Shift is not the perfect devise for everyone ... so maybe this device is for you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really understand what market the Shift is really 'for'. It's a very strange device which doesn't seem to offer much in the way of practicality. It's low-res screen and poor battery make it an ineffective laptop replacement - my old Sony Vaio TX had FOUR TIMES the battery life. The size is not as small as other devices and it would appear it only has two features not seen on other UMPCs: phone functionality (which is surely just a further battery drain) and windows mobile device functionality. Wouldn't it be more practical though to have a proper phone with Windows Mobile built in and tether it via bluetooth or WMWifirouter when the internet is needed?
I'm looking for UMPC but it seems the Shift has too many negatives and there appear to be better things on the market, particularly given that I'm not really bothered about making phone calls from one.
Battery life, screen resolution and keyboard quality are for me the critical elements of a UMPC.
(oh and size)
If anyone can explain why they would rather have a UMPC with phone and windows mobile built in than a UMPC WITH a normal, practical windows mobile device I would be interested to hear. Seems the convergence with the Shift is a bit over-the-top and might be more impractical than practical.
leoni1980 said:
I don't really understand what market the Shift is really 'for'. It's a very strange device which doesn't seem to offer much in the way of practicality. It's low-res screen and poor battery make it an ineffective laptop replacement - my old Sony Vaio TX had FOUR TIMES the battery life. The size is not as small as other devices and it would appear it only has two features not seen on other UMPCs: phone functionality (which is surely just a further battery drain) and windows mobile device functionality. Wouldn't it be more practical though to have a proper phone with Windows Mobile built in and tether it via bluetooth or WMWifirouter when the internet is needed?
I'm looking for UMPC but it seems the Shift has too many negatives and there appear to be better things on the market, particularly given that I'm not really bothered about making phone calls from one.
Battery life, screen resolution and keyboard quality are for me the critical elements of a UMPC.
(oh and size)
If anyone can explain why they would rather have a UMPC with phone and windows mobile built in than a UMPC WITH a normal, practical windows mobile device I would be interested to hear. Seems the convergence with the Shift is a bit over-the-top and might be more impractical than practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally like the concept of HTC Shift, yes i think you are correct to treat Shift as an UMPC, however what make Shift so special is because the duo mode that it offers and the form factor. It's fair to say there are no other device which has the same concept as Shift, at least not in the market yet.
It all depends on people, some people prefer to only carry on device which does everything, some prefer to carry separates. For those people who prefer to carry it all on one, Shift is really quite a nice option. It's important to notice the difference between laptop and UMPC, they serve different purposes. If anyone is new to UMPC, i suggest you visit a well known website call UMPC Portal, they have lots of information here. And it's interesting to know, HTC Shift occur to be the most viewed device there in rank 1, and it has stay in that position for for a long time.
Please don't get me wrong -- I think the Shift represents a great advancement in UMPC technology. Having WM6 and WinVista (or WinXP) combined on 1 device is, IMHO, a super idea. And the form factor and build quality are very good. I'm impressed and, as Jenn at Pocketables pointed out, it's fun to use -- kind of grabs you. But unlike Jenn, I'm not ready to say I'll not part with it. I've liberated WM6 so I have as full a use of the WM6 side as I believe is so far available. I've got Vista humming, at least as much as the 1G RAM can live with. But if this is as far as I can go I don't see much more than another "gadget" to add to my collection. The 1G RAM limit is a show stopper -- slows the machine down and really limits what I can do in Vista. The 64MB limit in WM6, combined with inability to access the SD card slot (or even the USB slot) means my WM6 is crippled -- hardly any of what I'm accustomed to using can be routinely done. Throw in the 2 hr battery limitation in Vista -- it just isn't a very good "solution" for a road warrior.
I realize there are folks hard at work to improve on these and I commend them (and have contributed to the Shift Project) -- I really hope they succeed. But I have to say that what I'm looking at from HTC is, at best, a "beta" version -- they have so limited what's inside the box that it's hardly useful for anything. Considering the growing competition I doubt HTC will hold much share of this market.
agree
Huib
Interesting comments and many agree with. Given the amount of information available on the net about this device, and its limitations including SnapVue, battery etc etc, what motivated you to buy it? It seems to be a mismatch to me re. your requirements. I bought it even knowing all these things as it matched my needs.
A road warrior it is not. A media powerhouse it is not. A tiny portable always on email and document viewer/editor, plus web browser it is. I get 2.5hrs on Vista browsing the web - same as almost every other laptop I've ever owned, so I'm not surprised really...altho again, Vista leaves much to be desired in this respect - a spinning hard drive kills batteries.
I agree with you regarding the things they didn't get right - SnapVue is just silly right out of the box and Vista is a mistake. HTC really fvcked up there.
This device kind of reminds me of the Sony C1V picturebook I had (with that horrible Crusoe processor - if you think this chip is slow, that thing was lifeless)...awesome for what I wanted but that's where it stops...it doesn't extend beyond that and I'm comfy with that.
To answer the question, I use my Shift when I travel. I used to take my HX4700 but bluetooth 3G connection was slow, Opera was slow for browsing and the screen too small really. I had a b/tooth key board which was OK but another piece of kit that needed batteries and sync'ing etc etc. Now I carry a v. small bag with me when away and it holds the Shift, power packs, Archos 504, headphones and a few other bits and bobs...all I need. On planes I can type my reports in Mobile Word, sync it to Vista and tart them up and send. In hotels I can surf the web at my own pace on HSDPA with it plugged in to AC (on high performance setting). I can adjust my webpage using filezilla etc etc....basically all the things I couldn't do on the HX4700 (which I now use as a support device for the Archos, and as a GPS)....the Shift really filled my requirements. I almost bought the Fujitsu U1010 but the ones here didn't have 3G built in and the keyboard was harder to use that the Shift.
Next version, should HTC shift (no pun intended) enough of these first ones, should ideally have:
1. Higher res screen
2. Bigger hard disk
3. SnapVue fully functional with SD card, WiFi access etc etc
4. XP as an option
5. A battery compartment that allows for an extended one to be added
Aside from that, I still like my Shift and use it almost everyday...
FOOFTR said:
Interesting comments and many agree with. Given the amount of information available on the net about this device, and its limitations including SnapVue, battery etc etc, what motivated you to buy it? It seems to be a mismatch to me re. your requirements. I bought it even knowing all these things as it matched my needs.
A road warrior it is not. A media powerhouse it is not. A tiny portable always on email and document viewer/editor, plus web browser it is. I get 2.5hrs on Vista browsing the web - same as almost every other laptop I've ever owned, so I'm not surprised really...altho again, Vista leaves much to be desired in this respect - a spinning hard drive kills batteries.
I agree with you regarding the things they didn't get right - SnapVue is just silly right out of the box and Vista is a mistake. HTC really fvcked up there.
This device kind of reminds me of the Sony C1V picturebook I had (with that horrible Crusoe processor - if you think this chip is slow, that thing was lifeless)...awesome for what I wanted but that's where it stops...it doesn't extend beyond that and I'm comfy with that.
To answer the question, I use my Shift when I travel. I used to take my HX4700 but bluetooth 3G connection was slow, Opera was slow for browsing and the screen too small really. I had a b/tooth key board which was OK but another piece of kit that needed batteries and sync'ing etc etc. Now I carry a v. small bag with me when away and it holds the Shift, power packs, Archos 504, headphones and a few other bits and bobs...all I need. On planes I can type my reports in Mobile Word, sync it to Vista and tart them up and send. In hotels I can surf the web at my own pace on HSDPA with it plugged in to AC (on high performance setting). I can adjust my webpage using filezilla etc etc....basically all the things I couldn't do on the HX4700 (which I now use as a support device for the Archos, and as a GPS)....the Shift really filled my requirements. I almost bought the Fujitsu U1010 but the ones here didn't have 3G built in and the keyboard was harder to use that the Shift.
Next version, should HTC shift (no pun intended) enough of these first ones, should ideally have:
1. Higher res screen
2. Bigger hard disk
3. SnapVue fully functional with SD card, WiFi access etc etc
4. XP as an option
5. A battery compartment that allows for an extended one to be added
Aside from that, I still like my Shift and use it almost everyday...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree and htc should also use SSD's to save more power and they should make sure they announce the correct specs.
FOOFTR said:
Interesting comments and many agree with. Given the amount of information available on the net about this device, and its limitations including SnapVue, battery etc etc, what motivated you to buy it? It seems to be a mismatch to me re. your requirements. I bought it even knowing all these things as it matched my needs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Point well taken -- I should have added that my comments were stated with the proverbial tongue in cheek. I was well aware of the Shift's limitations and purchased one out of curiosity -- I've followed it since its initial announcement and had cancelled my preorder after seeing the limitations being documented. But I saw this one on ebay for several hundred $ less than retail and decided to look at it for myself.
I agree with the suggestions made and really hope HTC listens (if they decide to stay in the UMPC market -- that's not a "for sure" thing). I've tried five different UMPC's as well as the Sony TZ "subnotebook" and have yet to find what I think I'm after -- a truly business capable device small enough for my purposes (and that's really subjective, I know) yet powerful enough to replace my usual notebook (13.3" XPS). I knew the Shift wouldn't do this -- its very short battery life is a show stopper although I could carry an external battery pack. But the limited RAM and the very limited usefulness of SnapVu make it relatively useless to me so I'll end up ebaying it.
I'd hoped to generate more discussion in the hope that collective experience and wisdom would prove useful to the UMPC market.
There are some very interesting viewpoints here.
I purchased mine after following the news stories for months. I purchased it the moment it was available in the UK and paid nearly £900.
I knew the limitations, but had to buy one of these! It gets used a lot in our house. And I am always doing things to it. It's leberated and its dual boot with XP.
I use it to tinker with, watch movies and surfing. The wife loves it too and surfs on the sofa while watching the tele, she prefers it to any of the laptop we have because of the size. My daughter took it away for the weekend recently too so she could surf. Its such a versitile device. And most of all, PEOPLE STARE AT IT ON THE TRAIN/PLANE WHEN I'M ON BUSINESS!!! I don't really use the liberated Snapvue, I don't need to when its dual boot.
If I had a wish list, I would love to see an SSD in it and another 1GB RAM. The processor is fine for what I use it for, so I have no grumbles there.
My eldest daughter wants it for school, so it'll be used for that full time in September when she is a year 10.
I do understand that to some people its limited in its application, but for us as a family, its one of the better toys we've purchased (and we buy a lot of techy toys/gadgets!) The joys of working in IT means I am addicted to buying new toys!
I'm actually sat here in the garden using HSDPA typing this. Apart from a couple of phones, I don't have another device with this ability. why be inside when its such a sunny evening!
benktlottie said:
TIt's liberated and its dual boot with XP...... I don't really use the liberated Snapvue, I don't need to when its dual boot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean by "dual boot"? I have mine liberated but I'm not sure it dual boots?
Thanks!
brucewilsonpa said:
What do you mean by "dual boot"? I have mine liberated but I'm not sure it dual boots?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I have dual boot, as in when powered up it asks whether you want to boot Vista or XP. Next stop, triple boot with Linux installed too, although that will be cutting it a bit fine for hard drive space.
Bruce, I think your comments, and the general community's will help deliver better products...I think they're constructive for sure.
I don't like it when people say product X sucks when indeed product X is not designed to do the very things they are comparing it against. I have read so many appalling reviews of the Shift - I'm ceratin 50% of the people won't have even used one...a classic is when someone said "the poky keyboard makes you wish for full size keyboard real estate..." - um, one cannot have a 7" screen device with an 18" keyboard...get real and take the device in the context it is meant for - maybe that's it, they cannot get their head around indeed what context this device resides/exists in. Maybe because they do not have a need for such a device it must be a failure? I mean, I don't need a concrete mixer so reviewing one would be pointless, and I'd end up saying things like "it doesn't sound as nice as my NAD stereo" - maybe they're the same.
Ah Pantaloonie, was loading XP as easy as booting from an XP disc/ISO (tablet I assume)? Thanks...
FOOFTR said:
Ah Pantaloonie, was loading XP as easy as booting from an XP disc/ISO (tablet I assume)? Thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, almost that easy. Use Vista to partition off a few Gigs for XP, install XP, then use a Vista disc to repair the mbr so you can get back into Vista.
Then use VistaBootPro to create a boot menu.
I didn't use tablet edition at the time, and can't be bothered to go back and do it again; maybe next time I'm really bored I will.
FOOFTR said:
Maybe because they do not have a need for such a device it must be a failure? I mean, I don't need a concrete mixer so reviewing one would be pointless, and I'd end up saying things like "it doesn't sound as nice as my NAD stereo" - maybe they're the same.
Click to expand...
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Hi FOOFTR,
yes, I like your comparison. Made me laugh. And I think what you say is right in all sorts of contexts. You make up something that wasn't said or done in the first place and then you go on bashing it.
Thanks!
S.
Pantaloonie said:
Yup, almost that easy. Use Vista to partition off a few Gigs for XP, install XP, then use a Vista disc to repair the mbr so you can get back into Vista.
Then use VistaBootPro to create a boot menu.
I didn't use tablet edition at the time, and can't be bothered to go back and do it again; maybe next time I'm really bored I will.
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Thats what I did.
I Used BartPE to make a bootable usb stick with xp pro on it. stole 6gb from Vista and installed xp pro. Viola, dual boot Shift!
I received my as part of the pre-order process about a week and a half ago.
My overall rating on this device would be a 8/10.
Upside - Super Fast boot -
works wireless and wired
magically increases phone screen resolution
Downsides
price is a bit high
the keyboard is small, but usable, even for real typing.
I have had some mixed results with different roms and programs. For the basic programs - email, calender, office, IE - everything works fine. Some programs though don't play well with the Redlfly, such as the official opera 9.5 release.
When a program doesn't work, the redfly screen goes black. Also, HTC photo album, tomtom do not work.
Google maps works.
Nothing is perfect- the actual web load speeds combined with substandard browsers make certain tasks great, but some pages are more of a pain then they are worth.
am i ready to travel without my laptop - Yup, especially for short trips. When the newer opera starts working with redfly, i think that will make a huge difference.
As in other reviews the battery life is one of the real selling points here. I left it going, wired, using the phone and a cordless mouse - for several hours and had no indication of losing my power and my phone was powered out at max (i was using a bluetooth headset)
the other way to use it, is to whip it out of a case, hit a button and bamb wirelessly send an email, looking something up, ect ect.
The redfly is VERY well constructed - very lightweight, but feels solid and well put together, the materials and the feel of the case are rubbery - and they look fantastic.
I did not experience the lapse in typing as the reviewer in pcworld did - maybe she needed a rom upgrade
Currently i'm using Lorentis' V5 diamond rom - this rom for some reason redfly doesn't like my today screen plugins and they look "scrambled" like a bad tv signal, but this is just a minor issue as you can see all the icons and move into the programs with no difficulty.
If your traveling or if you want to be able to expand the capability of your phone in random situations - this Redfly is the thing to have.
Relating to media - redfly's screen refresh rate is pretty slow - which can cause issues when scrolling on large web pages - but - it works.
My slingbox program played, but looked like a slide show and you can see the screen refresh line re-writing. - So, you can use this as a nice portable media screen- but it is my guess that this screen thing is not only a limitation of their driver and our phone, but i think it also is part of the battery life having a less active monitor.
one of the great things on the keyboard is there are lots of built in shortcut keys - they were REALLY awesome and work very well.
I got a mobile dvd player case that fits it very nice - and there is enough room for my mouse - i'm thinking about adding backup battery - one of these deals Tekkeon MP3450 for the heck of it.
again this is a fantastic device - it doesn't turn your phone into a laptop - relating to multimedia but, it greatly expands the capabilities for both speed and ease in the core applications
If you have any questions, shoot away
I've been looking at many reviews and ads and videos on this thing and I honestly must say with all due respect that I don't see the point.
You state that it improves capabilities for "both speed and ease in the core applications." I can only assume you say "speed" because you think you can do things quicker on a larger screen. AFAIK the redfly does not actually speed anything up for the phone. It is simply a dumb terminal that scales the screen larger and passes input/output.
If this device cost $200 I could possibly see it. But, for $500 you could buy a used P3 ultra-mobile off of ebay that although would be about 25-50% bigger would provide much much more in terms of capabilities, especially when paired with the phone itself for wireless internet.
Multimedia is not increased and, as you state, it has compatibility problems with quite a few applications. Pocket Office is really no where near as functional as real Office...I would never attempt to write a real document over a few paragraphs using pocket Word. Outlook is really the only thing that is very functional (since it is basic e-mail which aren't generally too long) and for that I find the small Kaiser/Tilt screen fine.
I suppose if I had limitless money I would buy one (just like I would by everything), but as I said an old PIII ultra-mobile can be had for cheaper.
Also, generally I am either packing just a phone, or I'm packing my whole case. If the redfly is to big to holster on my hip (which it is) I have to carry a case, and at that rate I might just as well carry my full size notebook.
And as far as being able to quickly whip it out and start on an e-mail, etc... Yes, you probably save about 15-30 seconds vs bringing a laptop out of standby...I'll give it that. But, that brings me back to the fact that I would consider it a waste of time to pull it out in the first place for just an e-mail which I feel is quickly and easily done on the tilt keyboard itself.
The only rational explanation I read for using these things is if you are a company that wants to fit mobile employees who already have phones with "laptops" for very basic tasks (like e-mail). Because the cost of a laptop (and all associated maintenance) can be bery high, this could be a one time fee solution that wouldn't require any additional support.
For an individual user, especially a power user, I can't see that the benefit of a larger screen is really worth the $500. But I'm glad you like it (to each his own), apparently they tapped into some market of people that find it useful and cost-effective.
in principal i don't disagree- it does not speed up your phone
however, for me, it has speed up and made easier my ability to use the phone
primarily in email, calender word, excell- ESPECIALLY excell.
If your on the go - it can be helpful
there is a big difference from my comptuer bag carrying my Dell 700m at 4 pounds and my tiny portable DVD player bag i use for the redfly - less than 2lbs, its like a feather
i have a bad back, the less stress the better - this is light enough to just grab and go anywhere with.
Its also somewhat future proof cause it can go from phone to phone, - hopefully they keep up the drivers.
I debated a small PC eee or something. you can even get them for 200 bucks.
For now i'm sticking with the redfly. - also, i note the pricepoint is the only major downside to the device.
once they get opera 9.5 working - i think it will take it to a whole new level.
I see your selling yours... no longer satisfied?
The price is now $400 new.
Protonus said:
I see your selling yours... no longer satisfied?
The price is now $400 new.
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needed full laptop functionality - changed my job from running around locally to flying around nationally - needed to use photoshop ect ect with me
its yours for 350 - basically new, paypal and shipped conus
My main, 4-5 year old macbook pro, seems to slowly be dying. HDD making weird noises, dead pixels on edges, power randomly turning off all the way, the works. I know some of this stuff is fixable, and I'll probably come around to it later, but right now I'm looking into getting a new computer, preferably a windows 8/ windows 8.1. While looking around for what my replacement would be, I know that some tablets, such as the surface pro, run windows 8. I think it would be cool to have a computer i could develop on and then go to class and turn it into a tablet and take notes on it. I don't know much about development, since I am a noob at it, and I'm going to collage in computer science next year, I don't know much about computer specifications for development. So, what would be a good choice for a tablet pc for developing? I do understand that a laptop or a full on PC would probably be better, but I'm just looking at options right now.
The main criteria for serious development (note: nothing you do in the first year or two of a CS curriculum is likely to qualify, unless you're going to MIT or something) are:
A) High-resolution display (1920 x 1080 is what I'd consider to be the bare minimum for a dev box) with a large enough screen that you can read it easily at default DPI. This is needed so you can have multiple code views, or code + documentation, open at once.
B) A pretty good supply of RAM. Depending on the languages and IDEs you're using, and the size of the code bases you're working on, just what is *enough* RAM will vary, but I wouldn't want to use anything less than around 8GB in a dev box. That lets me have multiple IDEs open, and a ton of browser tabs and history (for documentation), all at the same time without swapping.
C) SSD if you can afford it; the performance boost on stuff like compiling is substantial. You'll want to make sure you have plenty of space, though; source code even for large projects is only occasionally into and rarely much past single-digits of gigabytes, but the full repository history for a long-running project can be huge, and you will probably want to have room for virtual machines too (which are literally full additional OS installations) so you can test on different systems, or learn to develop for both Windows and Linux on the same machine, etc.
D) A really good keyboard is a must. You'll spend a long time using it, and you'll use a lot of weird keys that you aren't used to hitting right now. You want a full keyboard (no missing keys; did you know that there are actually times when Scroll Lock is useful? No joke...) with full-sized key-spacings (a cramped keyboard will slow you down and be uncomfortable really quickly). What type of "feel" you want to the keyboard is up to you, but most people really like the Lenovo keyboards for laptops, for example; your basic cheap membrane keyboard is probably *not* going to be pleasant to use.
Surface Pro 2 might work, if you got the Type Cover, but I wouldn't really recommend it. You want a bigger display on a dev box, usually, and the keyboard is optimized for everyday use but not for development.
Different people have different preferences for development machines. However I think GoodDayToDies suggestions are all good ones.
I am currently a first year computer science student at the university of northampton. I went with just getting a laptop rather than a tablet hybrid of some sort. Ultimately settled on the HP Sleekbook 14. Its only an intel core i3 @1.8ghz with HD4000 graphics and 6gb of RAM, but for everything you do in first and 2nd year (and potentially 3rd if there is a 3rd year not really sure how things work in the US) thats actually plenty powerful. It isn't a solid state drive, which would have been nice. There is only one criticism with it for programming and that is the screen resolution, at 14" the physical size is fine, but it is only 1366*768 which I can fit my stuff onto but it would be much nicer to have a higher res screen as with a higher res you can fit more code on without having to decrease font sizes or hide task bars in your IDE or whatever (I decrease font size and unpin the solution explorer and toolbox etc in visual studio, eclipse I dont unpin anything because I am still trying to get used to it, its only when you use something else that you realise how good visual studio is).
I did computer science as one of my A-Level subjects. I didn't bother with getting a laptop for that, I used the school machines in lesson, took bus home, used my desktop PC at home (and seeming as I commute to northampton daily from home instead of staying on halls, I can still do the same, but for convenience sake I use the laptop still, with my setup its more comfortable). I did have a friend though that didn't have a desktop PC at home or anything, his only computer was a 10" netbook, 1.3ghz dual core atom on 1gb of RAM and one of those really sucky 600p displays. He did his entire A-Level computing coursework on it, didn't use the school machines for anything other than testing and viewing documentation (as in that school we weren't allowed details for the WiFi which also had a hidden SSID, even if we did connect to the network via wifi or plain old ethernet, there was a proxy server nobody had details for either, so no internet for unauthorised machines). He was perfectly happy to bash out code on a tiny keyboard and only see a few lines of it at one time, I really wouldnt recommend it though. Visual studio was also perfectly happy to run on that machine (albeit with about a 10 minute load time when first opening it), compiled and debugged ASP.net applications perfectly fine too.
Under default settings in eclipse and with the console window thing pinned open at the bottom of the display. I can fit 28 lines of code on a 768 pixel tall screen.
Tablets for taking notes dont last long. Only people still doing that since the beginning of term are either using a surface with touch cover and typing yet still having a pad of paper for drawing diagrams or there are 2 people with surface pro's who use the digitiser stylus. Under lecture note taking conditions capacitive pens and virtual keyboards dont cut it. Also seen a small handful of people using bluetooth keyboards with iPads. One of the 2 surface pro guys does also use the surface in lab sessions for doing his work, the other switches to a uni machine. If your fine with a small keyboard then yeah, you might be able to do devwork on a surface pro, but there are @"keys"^Which>'R'|arely {if ever} get touched during daily usage; They are often placed on smaller buttons on smaller keyboards, much harder to hit. If your going to spend a few seconds trying to hit shift+2 to type a " (I'm british, our keyboards arent the same) then its going to slow you down considerably, my mate with the netbook didn't have a problem with this, I couldnt do it though. I have used the apple wireless keyboard and can type reasonably well on that (even though its about netbook size), but I cannot use it for programming, although in my case thats because apple are morons who don't know what a british keyboard looks like so the symbols are in the wrong place for me (their idea of a british layout keyboard, because they do sell one, is slap a £ sign on the 3 key and give us a double height enter/return key, that is it, all of their changes), that wouldnt effect you in the US.
I would say anything with a core i3/i5 or even i7 will have the CPU horsepower to get your work done.
For first year stuff I highly doubt more than 4gb of RAM will be needed. but I will recommend 6-8 anyway for future proofing.
Unless you are doing a specialised pathway with graphics or gaming, don't bother with an integrated GPU, you won't really need it.
1366*768 screen res should be the absolute bare minimum, 1080p highly recommended though. When this machine is replaced one day, I will definitely be going 1080p.
You need a keyboard which is comfortable to use. Go to best buy or whoever else sells computers out there, use a few machines, see what features you do or do not want.
I cannot recommend something 10" in size for most people. I use 14", I wouldnt go smaller than 13". For that reason I wouldn't recommend a convertible. If you were to go convertible, at least go active digitiser to make up for it. Some of my lectures I just type up, most I just go old fashioned with active digitiser mk1 (also known as pen and paper).
I am however looking at either the dell venue 8 pro or the EVGA tegra note tablets as a note taking tool. Can't really justify the expense though on something that would purely be that, a note taking tool.
4 GB of RAM should be enough unless you plan to use emulators. If you use emulators, you might wanna boost that up to 8.
A video card is also useful, regardless of how "weak" performance it has in gaming. If you use a CPU built-in one, you will lose up to 1 GB of RAM depending on what you do.
The display is probably the most important of them all. You will spend lots of time looking at it trying to figure out what is going wrong, and if your eyes do not agree with the display, you will find your efficiency greatly reduced.