Database Users

Is it true that LEO's CPU is limited to 712MHz?

Hello All
I've just found this line in Eugenia's ROM thread:
"*- CPU scales to a maximum of 1GHz instead of 712MHz"
Is it true that the CPU is limited to 712MHz in the shipping ROMs?
If Yes this may explain the lower performance compared to ACER F1 and Toshiba TG01

I was wondering this too

This could do with some deeper investigation by the experts amongst us...

If this is true, I can imagine the HD2 FLYING when we have custom ROMs!
Mine is pretty damn fast with ROM 1.48!

it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..

fards said:
it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..
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Suppose it is so, they did deliver a 1Ghz device, it's just limited for some reasons. First to my mind is battery life. Nevertheless, investigation is required and I hope kholk can clear some things for us since the seed was found in his thread.

fards said:
it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..
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My point exectly!
The only evidence we have for now is the line I quoted from Eugenia's soon to be released WM 6.5.3 ROM
But I've been thinking for a long time that the lower performance of the HD2 compared to other Snapdragon devices is due to some form of power management lowering the CPU frequence!

fards said:
it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..
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"HD2 as 1ghz capable"', does not mean it is running at 1GHZ but it could run at that speed, altough implied, but indeed it would be a misleading advert campaign
but i would like some proof too

tnyynt said:
Suppose it is so, they did deliver a 1Ghz device, it's just limited for some reasons. First to my mind is battery life. Nevertheless, investigation is required and I hope kholk can clear some things for us since the seed was found in his thread.
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The way its advertised means it would have to actually run at 1GHz, not just be a 1GHz model limited to less.
Unless its just a rubbish claim then i assume the ROM developer means limited to 712Mhz in certain situations, which might be for perfectly good reasons.

rovex said:
The way its advertised means it would have to actually run at 1GHz, not just be a 1GHz model limited to less.
Unless its just a rubbish claim then i assume the ROM developer means limited to 712Mhz in certain situations, which might be for perfectly good reasons.
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I don't agree: a software underclocked 1GHz CPU is still a 1GHz CPU. The chip is the same.

Not when the phone claims its a 1GHz CPU, which it does. The speed is not the name, its a physical attribute of the CPU that only exists if its actually running at that speed. This has been covered by EU law before, HTC cannot legally sell a phone running a CPU capable of 1GHz and claim its 1GHz if it never reaches that speed.

I suspect this ROM will just force full throttle all the time, which can only be bad for the battery life, but since we cannot flash it yet we dont know the effects, or if it even works at all.

HTC is advertising the HD2 machine as "1GHz capable device", but not as "1GHz device" that it's different.
It's barely legal.
Anyway, there IS evidence. And you can see it using TCPMP and doing some tests using the device's CPU
On this purpose, we've been talked on the xda-devs IRC channel about that, and I'm saying what I'm saying ONLY based on my tests: try to run TCPMP and see the CPU freq that it's reporting: 396-412MHz!
Use a program that is HEAVY on CPU load and run it in background (make sure that it won't close and that it will continue its work even in background) then see che CPU freq in TCPMP: you'll reach a maximum of 712MHz.
Another evidence of this statement is the performance of other SnapDragon machines like the Toshiba TG01.
P.S.: I think that the HTC HD2 will reach its 1024MHz frequency only when playing with the GLES2.0 Qualcomm test game, ELECTOPIA.
Electopia takes the device in EXCLUSIVE MODE, so it's possible that its frequency will be raised to 1GHz.

Its also quite possible that the CPU speed reporting programs do not support the snapdragon properly and report the wrong information.
The phone itself says the CPU speed is 1GHz in the phone hardware properties, this is a claim of speed, not name or theoretical capabilities.

So we're talking about dynamic freq adjustment on the go depending on processing power needed, similar to AMD's Cool and Quiet concept?

tnyynt said:
Suppose it is so, they did deliver a 1Ghz device, it's just limited for some reasons. First to my mind is battery life. Nevertheless, investigation is required and I hope kholk can clear some things for us since the seed was found in his thread.
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doesn't work like that does it though? they advertise the device running at 1ghz and it doesn't then that's false advertising..
If (and I doubt looking at the benchmarks) it ran at 700 ish mhz (maximum) then they should have advertised it as such
they don't mention "1ghz capable" here.. They clearly state its CPU processor Speed (not theoritical or otherwise) as
CPU Processing Speed
1GHz Snapdragon™ processor
http://www.htc.com/uk/product/hd2/specification.html
and Overview
HTC HD2 delivers an experience your senses have been waiting for. The unprecedented 4.3-inch pixel-packed display is stunning. The world’s first capacitive touch technology on a Windows® phone along with 1 GHz processing power ensure a smooth and lightning-fast response to the lightest touch of your finger
It's like stating it has a 4.3 inch screen and then actually finding it was 3.3 inches because the edge was covered in protective cover..
http://www.htc.com/uk/product/hd2/overview.html
not saying this is true at all.. we all know cpus have been scaling for a while, and the HD2 certainly scores high enough in integer testing..
but if that's what it is then they are likely to be in trouble over this.
anyway Kolhk you claim to have it able to scale up, how have you done that?
this way we can try to replicate it

rovex said:
Its also quite possible that the CPU speed reporting programs do not support the snapdragon properly and report the wrong information.
The phone itself says the CPU speed is 1GHz in the phone hardware properties, this is a claim of speed, not name or theoretical capabilities.
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If it reports the frequencies of other snapdragon devices correctly it shouldn't be an issue. And to they can't advertise the device as having a 1Ghz processor unless it runs at that speed(would it be ok for amd and intel to sell 4Ghz chips if they actually run at 2+Ghz, just because that would be their theoretical maximum?). The processor is probably, as mentioned earlier, just scaling back when it isn't used to 100%.

fards said:
they don't mention "1ghz capable" here.. They clearly state its CPU processor Speed (not theoritical or otherwise) as
CPU Processing Speed
1GHz Snapdragon™ processor
http://www.htc.com/uk/product/hd2/specification.html
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...and I bet if there's a text on the chip inside the device, it states the same on it. As far as I see things, HTC has a device with a 1G Snapdragon CPU which I bought. CPU inside, as described.

Toss3 said:
If it reports the frequencies of other snapdragon devices correctly it shouldn't be an issue. And to they can't advertise the device as having a 1Ghz processor unless it runs at that speed(would it be ok for amd and intel to sell 4Ghz chips if they actually run at 2+Ghz, just because that would be their theoretical maximum?). The processor is probably, as mentioned earlier, just scaling back when it isn't used to 100%.
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Actually AMD sells processors like this: AMD Athlon 64 3000+ which actually runs at 1800.

A CPU speed programs needs to support the way the CPU is actually controlled, not just the CPU, so basically the clock generator as well. If The HD2 uses a different method from the F1 or TG-01 then the program wont work.

[Q] GPU overclocking?

is there any work being done on being able to overclock gpu?, being a gaming orientated phone it seems the obvious thing to try, I've had a look and been unable to find anything about it. gpu overclocks on mobile devices are rather massive from what ive seen thus far.
or has any work for doing this on phones with the same chipset been completed that we could work off in the future?
cheers

Mael5trom said:
is there any work being done on being able to overclock gpu?, being a gaming orientated phone it seems the obvious thing to try, I've had a look and been unable to find anything about it. gpu overclocks on mobile devices are rather massive from what ive seen thus far.
or has any work for doing this on phones with the same chipset been completed that we could work off in the future?
cheers
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Adreno is part of the scorpion chipset, it's not a dedicated GPU and thus cannot be overclocked independently, obviously overclocking the CPU will help somewhat, with games, but only on performance not graphics

Ah, unfortunate limitation on this chipset, yep cpu overclocking looks like the way, thanks for the reply.

2nd Core App Questions

so now that the latest beta of siyah kernel supports enabling/disabling of the 2nd core, and tegrak already released an app for it, i just want to know the possible effects in performance/battery if you use the different options of the 2nd core app.. especially when we use the single core option.. so what will happen to our phone when we run HD games, and im sure that it will extend the battery life, just not sure how the phone will behave with only 1 core running.. and will it be bad for our phone to only run at a single core..
and also, am i right to assume that our phone has the option "dynamic hotplug" by default?

Shouldn't see much of a decrease in the performance. The sgs has a single core yet the cpu can still handle anything thrown against it. Point being there is nothing out that demands dual core performance. On another note note, hd games are not actually gd. It is just advertising point for game developers.
$1 gets you a reply

Using one core instead won't break your cpu. It gonna make your phone cooler ( ! core is running producing less heat and the heat dissipator is made for the dual core ) and have a better battery life obviously. It will, obviously too, slow down your phone, but the speed lost is to be determined. You might want to test it out to see if it's getting laggy or simply suck. As already said, the SGS I has a 1Ghz proc and can handle most of the top recent content available so with a 1.2 Ghz single core, you should be able to handle everything available, specially with an optimized kernel like siyah. And you are right, the default mode is dynamic hotplug, which use both core when needed and turn the core 1 ( 2nd core ) off when not needed.

I tried playing a little with it. The overall smootness doesn't change and i get about the same fps in nenamark2. The only game i saw stuttering a little more in single mode was Shadowgun, the others are just the same. I also have the feeling that cpu noise is reduced while playing music through headsets when you run on single.

I like the idea of switching off one core. But while using only one core this leads to a higher load on that corse. This will result in higher frequencies an thus higher battery consumption?
So might using only one core even be worse for battery life?
I mean isn't that the reason why you use multiple cores? That one does not have to produce cpu with high frequencies? I think I once read that the energy a cpu uses it proportional to the frequency squared. So it is not a linear relation. That means two cores on 500 MHz are using less power than one cpu on 1000 Mhz. Can someone confirm that? So if th os is optimized for multiple cores the energy consumptions will be less.
What do you think or know about Android. Is it managing two cores intelligently an thus reducing energy consumption or are we doing better with switching off one core?

Hi,
is anybody out there who can share any experiences with this 2nd Core app?
It would be very interesting whether it really saves battery(and if yes, is it noticeably or is it a huge difference)? Are there any negative effects in speed oder stability?
Rgds

I don't particularly care about potential battery saving, but I use it to manually disable one core while playing games which have problems with SoundPool ( see http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=17623 ), such as Galcon, as this mitigates the problems.

Schindler33 said:
I like the idea of switching off one core. But while using only one core this leads to a higher load on that corse. This will result in higher frequencies an thus higher battery consumption?
So might using only one core even be worse for battery life?
I mean isn't that the reason why you use multiple cores? That one does not have to produce cpu with high frequencies? I think I once read that the energy a cpu uses it proportional to the frequency squared. So it is not a linear relation. That means two cores on 500 MHz are using less power than one cpu on 1000 Mhz. Can someone confirm that? So if th os is optimized for multiple cores the energy consumptions will be less.
What do you think or know about Android. Is it managing two cores intelligently an thus reducing energy consumption or are we doing better with switching off one core?
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totlly agree

[Discussion] I9500 CPU Tweaking

As you all know, S4 I9500 comes with a pair of 4 cores that can't run at the same time (as of now). When not on heavy duty, the four A7 1.2GHz cores are used, and that can sometimes be too slow for me. So I am using SetCPU to lock the frequency to 1.6GHz, but SetCPU hasn't been updated/optimized for the S4, as it only identifies the four A15 1.6GHz cores. Therefore I do not know what exactly it is doing, is it overriding Samsung's way of switching between CPU sets, or is it working at all? Any suggestions on tweaking the I9500 CPU? Please tell me if you know any CPU apps compatible with it.

iHackMyMI said:
As you all know, S4 I9500 comes with a pair of 4 cores that can't run at the same time (as of now). When not on heavy duty, the four A7 1.2GHz cores are used, and that can sometimes be too slow for me. So I am using SetCPU to lock the frequency to 1.6GHz, but SetCPU hasn't been updated/optimized for the S4, as it only identifies the four A15 1.6GHz cores. Therefore I do not know what exactly it is doing, is it overriding Samsung's way of switching between CPU sets, or is it working at all? Any suggestions on tweaking the I9500 CPU? Please tell me if you know any CPU apps compatible with it.
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Locking the A15 chips on all the time would be a mistake. They use more power than the A7 cores, so battery would take a punch! I feel they handel the switch over pretty well, although CPUspy tells me that i've only used 1.6ghz for a few seconds over the course of a day. Although i've not run games or anything intensive.

hamdogg said:
Locking the A15 chips on all the time would be a mistake. They use more power than the A7 cores, so battery would take a punch! I feel they handel the switch over pretty well, although CPUspy tells me that i've only used 1.6ghz for a few seconds over the course of a day. Although i've not run games or anything intensive.
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Thank you for your reply. My point is that we are relatively oblivious about what's going on with the cores since no software is specifically compatible with monitoring/configuring the chipset. The thing is, a lot of apps run very laggy and have low frame rates on S4, force GPU rendering fixes most of the problem, but the crackyness of flipping through eBook reader apps are unbearable. I hope in the future there will be apps/roms that can take control of this CPU with great potential.

iHackMyMI said:
Thank you for your reply. My point is that we are relatively oblivious about what's going on with the cores since no software is specifically compatible with monitoring/configuring the chipset. The thing is, a lot of apps run very laggy and have low frame rates on S4, force GPU rendering fixes most of the problem, but the crackyness of flipping through eBook reader apps are unbearable. I hope in the future there will be apps/roms that can take control of this CPU with great potential.
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There are no compatibility issues, all CPU related apps work perfectly.
I've made topics explaining this over a month ago before the phone was even released. Everything beyond 600MHz are the big cores, everything at and below are the little ones. The little ones are mapped at a virtual frequency at half of the real clock, so 600 means 1200.
There's nothing more to it than that.

AndreiLux said:
There are no compatibility issues, all CPU related apps work perfectly.
I've made topics explaining this over a month ago before the phone was even released. Everything beyond 600MHz are the big cores, everything at and below are the little ones. The little ones are mapped at a virtual frequency at half of the real clock, so 600 means 1200.
There's nothing more to it than that.
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OMG thank you! That was very helpful

iHackMyMI said:
OMG thank you! That was very helpful
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like andreilux said what you have to do is set the minimum frequency above 600(if you still need it ) so that a15 cores will be on all the time. If in case you switch on the a15 cores all the time do let us know about the avg battery drain.

Overclocking possible?

I want to raise question is it possible to overclock the CPU, or GPU or memory speed. We all know that ze550kl / z00l performance with msm8916. Is almost in the limit to run apps and games, wanted to know if possible or not, and if there is any development has this respect. I like the device and it is great but it is clear that it is getting weak in the matter of hardware, if someone can work in this respect to give a breath / power to our device

Ermes.mt/brasil said:
I want to raise question is it possible to overclock the CPU, or GPU or memory speed. We all know that ze550kl / z00l performance with msm8916. Is almost in the limit to run apps and games, wanted to know if possible or not, and if there is any development has this respect. I like the device and it is great but it is clear that it is getting weak in the matter of hardware, if someone can work in this respect to give a breath / power to our device
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i don't think so , if its possible to overclock the processor to its frequency,
you can costumize it too max frequency of it or to lower , as u need
But if is then i would love like to know too

I am already extracting the maximum, from him that I can of him, already put using ex kernel, with governor ordenad, frequency of 200mhz @ 12000mhz, and simple GPU ordered frequency of 200mhz to 400mhz, active zram of 512mb, and entropy of 128/256, then Of course, here with standard frequency of the paddle extracting nothing more than that, the problem and that we have a large bottleneck in memory lpddr3 of 533mhz, that opera and 32bit, there is a single channel giving bandwidth of 4.2gb / s that It has to be split between CPU and GPU. What is clearly one of the pro soc power limiter, I do not know much about the arm architecture, but I can not do over clock in lpddr3 memory, since I did not see any software or tutoring Citing this. Although this would be a solution, if you do over clock in the CPU or ns GPU will force the clock controller up what will increase the memory performance consequently, something else, not good will lock the clock at maximum in 1200mhz and GPU at 400mhz, as there will be a large power consumption and the performance will be limited by the cords of the tempering control and the low frequency of the RAM, # excuse me to have been so far more enthusiastic about hardware,

even with my old htc explorer i could increase cpu clocsk from 600mhz to 900mhz why we cant do it on zenfone 2 just we need good developer and kernel

it's up to the hardware
If you look at the specs from qualcom it has a max speed and not every device is possible to reach the max, but if you have the proper kernel you can reach that speed and "overclock"