Database Users

Hardware Upgrading

To my knowledge many hardware upgrades can be made to the Universal.
Seeing earlier posts of Universal Motherboards and chipsets...
It is possible to solder and upgrade the Universal.
Upgrades Include:
1. RAM - Suggested Hynix DDR / SDR RAM
2. Processor - nVidia (includes video card upgrade) if you are lucky or the new Intel PXA29x Monahans or Intel Bulverade x270 650mhz processor.
3. Wifi upgrade to Atheros ABG
All these upgrades are possible. If anyone is successful on doing these upgrades or has any ideas from where these parts can be obtained.. we are looking at the next generation pocket pc's and mobile devices to be created on xda-developers.

nuclear said:
To my knowledge many hardware upgrades can be made to the Universal.
Seeing earlier posts of Universal Motherboards and chipsets...
It is possible to solder and upgrade the Universal.
Upgrades Include:
1. RAM - Suggested Hynix DDR / SDR RAM
2. Processor - nVidia (includes video card upgrade) if you are lucky or the new Intel PXA29x Monahans or Intel Bulverade x270 650mhz processor.
3. Wifi upgrade to Atheros ABG
All these upgrades are possible. If anyone is successful on doing these upgrades or has any ideas from where these parts can be obtained.. we are looking at the next generation pocket pc's and mobile devices to be created on xda-developers.
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Why not suggest this to a real company like Pocket PC Techs: http://www.pocketpctechs.com/main~unit~O2_XDA_Exec-500~area~repairs.htm
They already have a repair section for the Universal. It might be easier for them to acquire everything, plus it would give us the option of having trained professionals handling our Universal.
But I read sometime ago, someone already tried this and did not work.

Mobile SDR/DDR RAM
I will consult Pocket PC Techs as you say they are professionals.
I will consult Intel, Atheros and Hynix on obtaining the parts. I am highly trained with soldering since i recently upgraded the video card on my motioncomputing LE1600 tablet pc ($5000). This phone Universal costed me $1200 from expansys and I would not like it to get busted. But i am pretty sure i can do it myself. If successful i will post pictures of the new chipset. Most certainly it will fit into the same body. Device Driver flashing will need a new ROM... i guess Helmi's/Ivans/Jwrights ROMS wont work. Anyways this will take me a week to a month to obtain the parts. And a few days to solder.
The hard part is making the ROM. Maybe my new project of Windows Crossbow i can integrate the device drivers into the ROM since they will be provided by the manufacturer for sure. So its not impossible i would say. Getting help from Pocket PC Techs really sounds good.

nuclear
I have already done this operation on Universal.
Now I have
CPU -Intel P4
Video- NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2
RAM- Nynix -10TB.
OS-Photon
You foolish and tell the delirium!

arc said:
nuclear
I have already done this operation on Universal.
Now I have
CPU -Intel P4
Video- NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2
RAM- Nynix -10TB.
OS-Photon
You foolish and tell the delirium!
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Please do not spam on the forum with false information. If you have really performed the upgrades post the picture of your new chipset and the Photon OS.

added foto

Again Spam
The Hynix RAM is not at the bottom right. It is supposed to be on the left. This is what the image is. Which i got from another thread! The RAM is supposed to be soldered on the top right. Right beside those 3, 2 slots are left for RAM to be soldered. And there is no Intel P4 processor. I guess people can use this as a reference to solder.
Anyways i am not going to keep mentioning about your spam. Because wind just adds more to the fire. The rest is upto the forum administrators.

get a sense of humour, man

It makes me cringed to see a naked Universal like that. It is like throwing $1000 to the trash.

not if you know what you're doing.
i for one would love a GeForce Go and faster WiFi in there. But isn't there a problem with RAM addressing over 64Mb?

r3bel said:
not if you know what you're doing.
i for one would love a GeForce Go and faster WiFi in there. But isn't there a problem with RAM addressing over 64Mb?
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Exactly what i was thinking. Upgrade the RAM and the processor (processor upgrading i think is impossible). And then the video card <-- not great chance of upgrading.
Currently i can only give confirmation based on my skills that i can upgrade the RAM. Getting hands on the hynix SDR/DDR RAM will not be easy either.
I am also sure that these upgrades shall keep our Universals tuned in for another 5 - 10 years along with Windows Mobile Crossbow and Windows Photon. Just like the Windows Vista that will be up and running for 10-15 years.
Anyways after these upgrades are successful i plan on marketing my product of research and upgrade for twice the same price as the universal. I shall post pictures of the device once it is upgraded and what the new ROM recognises.
I am currently working on Windows Crossbow and Windows Photon as well.
Now i base my research on facts from wiki so there is no chance of failure.

nuclear said:
Exactly what i was thinking. Upgrade the RAM and the processor (processor upgrading i think is impossible). And then the video card <-- not great chance of upgrading.
Currently i can only give confirmation based on my skills that i can upgrade the RAM. Getting hands on the hynix SDR/DDR RAM will not be easy either.
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would would the CPU be impossible to ugrade? I believe the RAM is the most difficult because, I think, Win Mo doesn't recognize more than 64MB... but I don't have facts for that. would be awesome to have 128MB or even 256, 512 would be tha sh1t! I checked those chips and I have a PDF 'bout it... if it helps. but I haven't seen such low capacity
Now the processor would be awesome to upgrade, too... but why not? maybe pin configuration? or would they be able to compile WinMo for just one speed of a processor? or are we talking 'bout different processors altogether?
I was checking the internet 'bout such things, reflow stations(pro, DIY) and solder paste, but I'm afraid to try with my Universal as I haven't done it before. any ideas?

Yubastard said:
would would the CPU be impossible to ugrade? I believe the RAM is the most difficult because, I think, Win Mo doesn't recognize more than 64MB... but I don't have facts for that. would be awesome to have 128MB or even 256, 512 would be tha sh1t! I checked those chips and I have a PDF 'bout it... if it helps. but I haven't seen such low capacity
Now the processor would be awesome to upgrade, too... but why not? maybe pin configuration? or would they be able to compile WinMo for just one speed of a processor? or are we talking 'bout different processors altogether?
I was checking the internet 'bout such things, reflow stations(pro, DIY) and solder paste, but I'm afraid to try with my Universal as I haven't done it before. any ideas?
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1. Steps to upgrade the processor.
a. Remove the existing soldered chip off the motherboard (most likely will damage the motherboard while removing the existing processor chip)
b. Obtain the next processor chip. Probably will be from the same family of processors or any other compatible chip and solder it on.
c. Make a ROM that supports this hardware.
Higher End processors:
PXA27x (The universal one)
The PXA27x family (code-named Bulverde) consists of the PXA270 and PXA271-PXA272 processors. This revision is a huge update to the XScale family of processors. The PXA270 <-- (((this one is ours))) is clocked in four different speeds: 312 MHz, 416 MHz, (((520 MHz))) and (((624 MHz <-- (((this is what we can upgrade to most likely))) and is a stand-alone processor with no packaged memory. The PXA271 can be clocked to 312 MHz or 416 MHz and has 32 MiB of 16-bit stacked StrataFlash memory and 32 MiB of 16-bit SDRAM in the same package. The PXA272 can be clocked to 312 MHz, 416 MHz or 520 MHz and has 64 MiB of 32-bit stacked StrataFlash memory.
Now this is the processor we are aiming for:
In August 2005 Intel announced the successor to Bulverde, codenamed Monahans. They demoed it showing its capability to play back high definition encoded video on a PDA screen. The new processor was shown clocked at 1.25 GHz but Intel said it only offered a 25% increase in performance (800 MIPS for the 624 MHz PXA270 processor vs 1000 MIPS for 1.25 GHz Monahans). An announced successor to the 2700G graphics processor, code named Stanwood, has since been cancelled. Some of the features of Stanwood are integrated into Monahans. For extra graphics capabilities, Intel recommends third party chips like the Nvidia GoForce chip family <-- ((NOT AUTHORIZED BY NVIDIA)).
******NOW CHECK THIS OUT:: YOU THOUGHT THE PROCESSOR WAS EVERYTHING RIGHT? WELL SEEMS LIKE YOU WERE WRONG::READ WHAT WE CAN DO WITH THE RAM********
This is why i chose Hynix and not Samsung
Hynix Semiconductor Inc. (Hangul: 하이닉스 반도체) KSE: 000660 is an electronics company founded in 1983 as Hyundai Electronics Industries Co., Ltd. In the 1980s and 1990s it was mainly focusing on marketing DRAM, and then later SDRAM. In 2001 the business sold their TFT LCD assets for $650m, of the same year they developed the world's first 128MB DDR SDRAM for graphics.
Hynix is among the Worldwide Top 20 Semiconductor Sales Leaders.
In 2004-2005 an investigation was carried out into a worldwide DRAM price fixing conspiracy during 1999-2002 that damaged competition and raised PC prices. As a result, Samsung <-- (SEE SAMSUNG IS A LOSER) is to pay $300 million fine, Hynix was to pay $185 mln in 2005, Infineon: $160 mln in 2004. Micron Technology cooperated with prosecutors and no fine is expected.
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And now getting to the RAM
The RAM is an addon in the universal and not a replacement. Replacements are very damaging to the device and decreases the life of the device.
So all we got to do is addon the RAM.
Now i am going to personally speak to a Hynix manager and ask him if our devices are upgradable. I will also ask him about the pricing and how we can make bulk orders. I will read on more about RAM and what should we buy exactly? They manufacture so many products and you dont want to pick the wrong one.
Ah yes and they also manufacture better LCD screens for the Universal. In case some one wants to take on that project most welcome to. I would love a Anti-glare glass screen for my universal.

RAM,processor or WiFi of Universal cannot be upgrated,though RAM of HP4700 can be upgrated to 128MB.but the camera of Universal can be upgrated to 3.0MP.It costs only RMB200(USD25).There are already many people(except me) upgrated their camera of Uni.I will post the pictures later

yinfo said:
RAM,processor or WiFi of Universal cannot be upgrated,though RAM of HP4700 can be upgrated to 128MB.but the camera of Universal can be upgrated to 3.0MP.It costs only RMB200(USD25).There are already many people(except me) updated their camera of Uni.I will post the pictures later
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$25 USD Sounds too unreal for a 3MP camera upgrade for Universal. What is the optical zoom/digital zoom/lens mm? We here at xda-developers.com are looking into technical and specific details. I dont want a 3MP camera with barely any optical/digital zoom and images that cant be taken in a sunny day.
Also RAM upgrade is possible. Why else do you think those two empty solder spots are left on the motherboard?
I was sure that the camera can be upgraded too. I will find out more camera details and keep the forum posted. Since i am a professional SLR photographer i can provide the best camera's to the Universal device.
This means a stronger high beam flash can also be upgraded.

nuclear said:
$25 USD Sounds too unreal for a 3MP camera upgrade for Universal. What is the optical zoom/digital zoom/lens mm? We here at xda-developers.com are looking into technical and specific details. I dont want a 3MP camera with barely any optical/digital zoom and images that cant be taken in a sunny day.
Also RAM upgrade is possible. Why else do you think those two empty solder spots are left on the motherboard?
I was sure that the camera can be upgraded too. I will find out more camera details and keep the forum posted. Since i am a professional SLR photographer i can provide the best camera's to the Universal device.
This means a stronger high beam flash can also be upgraded.
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Maybe $25 USD Sounds unreal for you,but in China,it's real.But now I can't find out the pictures of it on Chinese forum. It has optical zoom.
The battery costs only $25 in China,the imitated one costs only $7.And the 3200mAh battery costs less than $15 now,though I bought it for $19 5 months ago.I bought my T-Mobile MDA Pro for about $530.
Two empty solder spots are left on the motherboard is because the Universal was fist made for Windows Mobile 2003,which must has 128MB RAM.Do know CeBIT 2005?CeBIT 2005 had a Universal(T-Mobile MDA PRO) on show,which has WM2003 and 128MB RAM.
But someone had his HP4700 upgrated to 128MB RAM said that the Universal couldnot be upgrated to 128MB.He didn't tell me the reason.And so far,I have never seen any one have his Universal upgrated to 128MB RAM.

Battery and Camera
yinfo you might be correct about the battery. I actually bought my Universal for around the same price as yours. Just $100 more. My 3200mAh battery also costed around the same price as yours. All my items came ofcourse from Shanghai and Ho Chi Minh and Hong Kong.
But my RAM is going to come from South Korea, Seoul.
Some good stuff is also being sold at Hanoi in Vietnam. Better check that place out.
Camera upgrade cannot be so cheap. It really sounds too unreal. I mean camera is not equal to battery. Maybe $100-$200 will be more realistic. Anyways I am still looking into this camera upgrade on the net, will find some results soon and keep the forum posted.

hehe, it all sounds so exotic! I got my universal for £150 on a rainy high street in the UK!
loving the chance for a camera replacement, though. also, i had a browse through the universal's disassembly manual, and the flash LED is just stuck-down then plugged in. i bet even I could upgrade that!

r3bel said:
hehe, it all sounds so exotic! I got my universal for £150 on a rainy high street in the UK!
loving the chance for a camera replacement, though. also, i had a browse through the universal's disassembly manual, and the flash LED is just stuck-down then plugged in. i bet even I could upgrade that!
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I want to upgrade the flash LED to the flash in the SLR digital camera. So that i get better image quality while taking photographs in the public. Also i would like a 3MP camera. I have printed images on photo paper before and they came out nice. But 3MP would be the best.

nuclear You foolish !!
You absolutely do not understand in electronics and PPC.
1) You can not change the processor since this not PC. Mobile processors PXA 270 and PXA2XX to have other points and other auxiliary elements.
2) Such reasons and about graphic chip.
3)The Camera can be theoretically modernized -but if have an alike connector and electrically parameters.
We conducted the modernization on typhoon c500 cameras. This device was delivered on european and chinese market with miscellaneous camera.
When installation of the other camera -you need other ROM with the other driver for this cameras. You can not simply change this driver - necessary to build in this in ROM.
I did this on typhoon c500. But this in a complicated way.
4) Theoretically you may add on Universal RAM - my friends conducted modernization and tried to enlarge RAM - but you may use only such RAM as it is used in Universal.
My friends concern with the repair PPC to have specialized device. In home condition you will not be able this do.
After they were added chip RAM - a system does not see these chips. We thought that probably system does not see additional RAm since does not enter the signal CS ( chip select ) -we have found this signal on board. But probably system does not see RAM since is not installed specific driver which will be able to service additional RAM.
nuclear
Be enough to carry the foolishness and tell about that that you do not understand - you probably foolish young person who wants to raise its rating in this forum.

Xperia Review by the Unoffical SE Blog - 384 MB RAM Confirmed...

Hi,
Finally a really in-depth review - really! And like i pointed in the title:
"The X1 comes with a total of 384 megabytes of RAM memory. Only 256 megabytes is visible in the system, but this is because these 256 megabytes is strictly for applications. At boot there’s about 152 megabytes free.
The remaining 128 megabytes of RAM memory is used for both the video graphics and CPU. According to the MSM7200A datasheet, the graphics part of the chipset (presumably the ATI Imageon 2300 or 2700G chip) is capable of delivering up to 4 million 3D triangles per second, and 133 million 3D textured pixels per second fill rate. Furthermore, it supports OpenGL ES - link that up with the large amount of dedicated video memory, and you’ve got an awesome power horse or gaming machine."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best Regards.

Old news bro.

xmoo said:
Old news bro.
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Click to collapse
new news for me though. I know at the system memory it only shows 256MB of RAM, but I didn't know there's 128MB of hidden memory for GPU, etc. In that case, I wonder if it's the same for other HTC device like HTC Touch Pro, or is this an unique architecture for Xperia?
I did observed that the memory after bootup, is much more for Xperia than HTC Touch Pro, maybe that 128MB of hidden memory is making that difference.

zenkinz said:
new news for me though. I know at the system memory it only shows 256MB of RAM, but I didn't know there's 128MB of hidden memory for GPU, etc. In that case, I wonder if it's the same for other HTC device like HTC Touch Pro, or is this an unique architecture for Xperia?
I did observed that the memory after bootup, is much more for Xperia than HTC Touch Pro, maybe that 128MB of hidden memory is making that difference.
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Click to collapse
Yes, it is new to me too as it only states that X1 has 256MB Ram so it has the extra of 128MB memory hidden, no wonder it is faster compared to my previous Touch Pro.
Good Job, SonyEricsson!

xmoo said:
Old news bro.
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Sorry bro. Been out of the scene lately, and having seen this today was new to me.

That's no proof at all. We already knew that the Qualcomm chip has hardware acceleration capabilities. Even the Diamond and Touch Pro has it but there is a rumor that it isn't utilized because HTC didn't buy the license for it.
Until someone opens up the X1 and spots the exact 128MB memory chip (only the flash memory and the 256MB RAM chip have been spotted as of now) I won't believe anything. Information is rather dubious it needs to be cleared out by facts (and hardware pictures).
Also the source is rather biased too. The "unofficial SE Blog" as they call it, is SE friendly and will write anything will come to their mind to help SE image and sales. I've read the review and while I think it is overall detailed, on some points their objectivity is quite questionable.

Sounds good, but if Sony cant even get the freaking panels to work smoothly with low res screenshots, i doubt any other software will ever use this.
No game developer will limit his games to one phone, so they come up with rather simple games without 3d stuff...its not like with the iphone where millions of people have the same phone with the same hardware/software base...because of that, they have alot of great games that utilize the 3d hardware but i dont see that happening for any WinMo device.
There might an optimzed version of coreplayer or that PS1 Emu, well might.

XavierGr said:
That's no proof at all. We already knew that the Qualcomm chip has hardware acceleration capabilities. Even the Diamond and Touch Pro has it but there is a rumor that it isn't utilized because HTC didn't buy the license for it.
Until someone opens up the X1 and spots the exact 128MB memory chip (only the flash memory and the 256MB RAM chip have been spotted as of now) I won't believe anything. Information is rather dubious it needs to be cleared out by facts (and hardware pictures).
Also the source is rather biased too. The "unofficial SE Blog" as they call it, is SE friendly and will write anything will come to their mind to help SE image and sales. I've read the review and while I think it is overall detailed, on some points their objectivity is quite questionable.
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damn true, we have nothing but words.

Also, think about it. A whopping 128MB VRAM for WVGA resolution? A desktop PC with 128MB VRAM on it's GPU could play full on 3D games at SXGA resolution easily. Doesn't sound logical to me at all if they put that much VRAM on this tiny device. Way too generous for HTC. 16MB or even 32MB sounds a lot more reasonable and realistic.

^ yep, I've also said that a few times here.....
so in the end I for one, can call SE is a liar here.

[Q] i9000 RAM=384MB LP DDR1+128MB oneDRAM?

I just found this picture
dev.odroid.com/wiki/odroid-t/pds/FrontPage/s_blockdiagram.jpg
So does it mean only 384MB DDR is available in system?
May be this is the reason why 305M ram shows in JP3 firmware.

That could make sense.
I wonder what the difference between them is?...Could one be dedicated to the GPU or in charge of background stuff?

Did anyone notice MFC 1080p 30 fps there?

That system block diagram isn't a Samsung official one, and frankly, i think it's wrong.
If the main memory in the Galaxy S was LPDDR1, we'd see lower GPU performance, MUCH lower. Memory bandwidth is everything when it comes to GPU on mobile devices like this.

Pika007 said:
That system block diagram isn't a Samsung official one, and frankly, i think it's wrong.
If the main memory in the Galaxy S was LPDDR1, we'd see lower GPU performance, MUCH lower. Memory bandwidth is everything when it comes to GPU on mobile devices like this.
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GPU RAM must be OneDRAM，OneDRAM is much faster than normal DRAM.
You can google "OneDRAM".

So I guess we might not really have 512MB of ram (as advertised)... isn't it? I mean, if these MBs are reserved to GPU use only. There will come a day when they will be needed for other use than graphics :|.

They are not reserved for GPU use only.
OneDRAM is like an intersection for routing information with as-little-as-possible blockades in the middle.
Splitting the memory to "conventional" ram and onedram is going against the very principal of onedram. I am having a hard time to believe they actually did that.

^Sbk79^ said:
So I guess we might not really have 512MB of ram (as advertised)... isn't it? I mean, if these MBs are reserved to GPU use only. There will come a day when they will be needed for other use than graphics :|.
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There is no official statement about RAM size.

I noticed the diagram says "TFT LCDC". That seems wrong, does it not?

coocood said:
There is no official statement about RAM size.
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This. You'll find a lot of press about the Galaxy S having 512mb RAM, but where does Samsung itself advertise this? I cannot find anything about it anywhere on Samsungs website. Maybe we should ask them?

GSMarena pressed on the issue when the phone was released, and samsung replied that there are indeed 512MB.

Lol....So do we actually know if it has 512MB of RAM or not? As some others have stated it might help explain why the Sammy has lag issues and the Desire does not..
BTW, I dont own either at present and am just going by what I have read in these forums.

That diagram also doesn't list wireless N, does that mean our phones don't have wireless n???

Pika007 said:
GSMarena pressed on the issue when the phone was released, and samsung replied that there are indeed 512MB.
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well..... using my onboard math processor I compuete that 384+128 = 512..
So samsung wouldnt have been lying if they had said there was 512.. even if 128 might be dedicated to the gpu or something else. 512+128 would have been nicer though.
I wonder if this diagram is accurate.

The picture is of ODROID-T which is a tablet style device for developers.
Its hardwares are quite similar to SGS but I don't think this block diagram should be showing exactly the same informations as SGS's.
Have a look at this site;
http://dev.odroid.com/wiki/odroid-t/

Well, the S5PC110 doesn't have the memory built in beforehand. It's changeable, the controller supports OneDRAM, LPDDR1 and LPDDR2. You can stick whatever you want in there.
Remember that only what's in the blue square is the actual SOC.

Kilack said:
well..... using my onboard math processor I compuete that 384+128 = 512..
So samsung wouldnt have been lying if they had said there was 512.. even if 128 might be dedicated to the gpu or something else. 512+128 would have been nicer though.
I wonder if this diagram is accurate.
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How does this differ from the HTC Desire setup? I know it has 576 MB RAM, but not sure how its split up...

Well, I checked before posting. Google for an official press release from Samsung Australia. Xda is not letting me post external links due to my low number of posts. However, I love my S. I'm just saying that this mem thing is starting to smell a little bit of i7500, from a customer relations' POV. Let's just hope we actually have a different design and that, as rumors say, new kernels will unlock all available ram.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

I also found a tear down analysis of Korean version galaxy s.
The author said it has "4Gb NAND+3Gb DDR+1Gb OneNand",which is incorrect.
Some comment below said it is OneDram actually.
If not for the OneDram,How can samsung declare 90M triangles/sec instead of powerVR's figure of 28M triangles/sec.
OneDram is more expensive than DDR.
I guess samsung does't say anything about RAM because it's a different structure,and hard to explain.

gosh i have been lurking on these forums to buy this phone
but with this memory issue it seems like the OMNIA II all over again
there the phone was advertisied with 512mb but only so little was left to the user!!
samsung samsng oh samsung!

Mystery (probably) solved; how Samsung pulls off its GPU magic.

Edit: TL;DR VERSION: 128 of that 512 megs of RAM in ur Epic is leet special-sawce Samsung RAM that pwns other RAMs, and makes ur GPU make moar trianglez in ur gamez.
Forgive me folks, I'm lazy, so I'm posting this more or less verbatim from what I posted in my blog, with a few minor tweaks. It's long and probably boring, so you have my apologies in advance.
Despite my efforts to pull myself away from ARM architecture, Android, and specifically, the mysteries surrounding the Hummingbird processor, I can never really extract myself. One of these days I'll get around to obsessing over something else (hopefully career-related) but until then, I'll let you know what I think I've uncovered as the solution to how Samsung solved the GPU bandwidth issue (which I puzzled over in my original Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon article.)
There have been a few opportunities where I've had to step in and correct people when they post that a Galaxy S phone has only ~320 megs of RAM. It's an error I see made frequently when people use Android system info applications that can only see the 320 megs of volatile memory, despite the fact that the phone does actually contain 512 megs of RAM. We see it happen every time a new Galaxy S phone is leaked, even the Nexus S.
The explanation for this has always been that a certain amount of memory have been "reserved" by Samsung for the Android OS, and that memory is not visible nor available to applications. Despite this, I've never been able to figure out exactly how the system provides the 12.6 GB/sec of memory bandwidth it (theoretically) needs to push out 90 million triangles/sec with the PowerVR SGX540 GPU.
I'm not quite sure how it happened, but in my meanderings across the interwebs, I ran across the following image on ODROID.com of the block diagram of the S5PC110 that they use for their developer board.
(Edit: Image-Shacked... ODROID didn't appreciate me hot-linking their image. Whoops. Use the ODROID.com link above to see the original.)
Careful observation of the POP (Package-On-Package, or "Stacked" circuits) module on the left-hand side shows 384 MB of LPDDR1 and 128MB of OneDRAM, a term I'd noticed on S5PC110 documentation on the list of supported technologies. I'd assumed that it wasn't used. I'd already determined that even though the Hummingbird supports LPDDR2, it only supports it at 400 Mbps transfer rate (which LPDDR1 is capable of) and, with an x32 bus, only allows for 1.6 GBps data bandwidth, a far cry from the 12.6 GBps needed.
So what is this OneDRAM? According to Samsung, "OneDRAM is a fusion memory chip that, can significantly increase the data processing speed between a communications processor and a media processor in mobile devices," and, "...this results resulting in a five-fold increase in the speed of cellular phone and gaming console operations, longer battery life and slimmer handset designs." (Sic.)
Hear hear! 5 times 1.6 GBps still doesn't equal 12.6, but the 12.6 number is a something I arrived at using a lot of assumptions (4.2 GBps bandwidth needed by the PowerVR SGX540 to perform 28 million triangles per second, multiplied times 3 to make ~90 million triangles per second). I'm satisfied that the OneDRAM is that holy grail memory I've been looking for.
Now, how to prove that it actually exists inside my Epic 4G? Remember, the S5PC110 Hummingbird doesn't come with memory built-in; that's something that gets stacked on when the phone is built. The ODROID guys could very well be using a completely different configuration; though that ~320 megs showing up over and over in Android system info apps hardly seems like a coincidence, assuming the difference between 384 and 320 is actually reserved memory for the OS' own system applications. The OneDRAM on the other hand would be reserved primarily for hardware use, such as the GPU as Samsung earlier suggested.
I turned to one of my Android developer acquaintences, noobnl of xda-developers.com. When I showed him what I've run across, (hoping to see if he'd heard of this before, as he has a good handle on Epic hardware) he told me that I had made a good find. He also pasted some kernel code that clearly referenced OneDRAM, proving that the Epic 4G contains this technology.
So there you go folks. The secret is out. The Galaxy S phones are likely able to achieve such amazing graphics performance via a 128 MB Samsung-proprietary high-speed hybrid memory solution. The remaining 384 megs of memory is plain-jane LPDDR1. The total is the promised 512 megs, and honestly, I wouldn't trade the OneDRAM for 128 megs more of LPDDR1 available application memory, but it's interesting how Samsung has kept the OneDRAM solution so quiet. It's likely enjoying the current GPU supremacy of the Galaxy S phones, unfortunately come Cortex-A9, LPDDR2 memory (> 400 Mbps), and dual-channel memory controllers, they will be back on a level playing field. Who could blame them for setting aside Orion and picking up NVIDIA's Tegra 2 SoCs for their next-gen smartphones? It's a fast-moving industry out there, particularly when you don't have Intrinsity any longer as your ace-in-the-hole. Curse you, Apple.
PS - Some of you guys on here know more about this **** than I do. Please feel free to offer suggestions, corrections, and jeers. Though I'm hoping for less of the latter.

Dude what?
Sent from my SGH-T959D using XDA App

Mannnnnnn ....I had a hunch it worked like that
thanks for clearing this up Im glad im not the only one that figured this out!

Are you not compensating for TBDR memory efficiency?

Interesting. Could also complicate porting newer Android versions, at least wih the same efficiency.

I pretend I understood all that you said..and say...Voila..FINALLY!

Yeah I've seen documentation saying the Galaxy S phones have 4Gb of RAM. 1Gb of which is OneDRAM and 3Gb is LPDDR (Idk version). Now, tell us why ODROID and the block diagram can do 1080p and we can't.
EDIT:

thephawx said:
Are you not compensating for TBDR memory efficiency?
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I just pulled my information from some raw data about the Intel GMA500 (which is an SGX540 disguised as Intel) running at 200 MHz. I would assume the 4.2 GB/s bandwidth needed assumes TBDR is being used.
It's a shaky line of reasoning though. Wish I had some more hard data on the SGX540, and more specifically, the clock rate it runs at in the Epic.
arashed31 said:
Yeah I've seen documentation saying the Galaxy S phones have 4Gb of RAM. 1Gb of which is OneDRAM and 3Gb is LPDDR (Idk version). Now, tell us why ODROID and the block diagram can do 1080p and we can't.
EDIT:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I could swear I've seen those numbers somewhere but I can't for the life of me find it.
As for the 1080p, that's a good catch; interesting. And, now that I look closer, WiFi doesn't have N support, though I suppose it's possible they used a different WiFi chip.

delete, double post.

Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...

Wow.. My brains are like oh my gawds!
Interesting tho
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Another thing. If you look at the Bluetooth certification site you'll see the Samsung Epic is certified for Bluetooth 3.0. Even though the chip in there is a Broadcomm chip that only supports Wireless N and Bluetooth 3.0.
gTen said:
Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...
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Video decoding is on the processor? WHAT. THE. HELL. SAMSUNG.

Sounds like you did your homework, i'll buy it. Thanks for sharing. I'll take the fast vid over ram too

tmuka said:
Sounds like you did your homework, i'll buy it. Thanks for sharing. I'll take the fast vid over ram too
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Homework, yes... but I'd really like to see an ARM engineer affirm it.
gTen said:
Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I just actually took a look at the S5PC110 User Manual and sure enough, 1080p encoding / decoding at 30 FPS is showing supported on the block diagram:
"1080p 30 fps MFC
Codec H.263/H.264/MPEG4
Decoder MPEG2/VC-1/Divx"
But then, directly below the block diagram, the following is shown:
"Multi Format Codec provides encoding and decoding of MPEG-4/H.263/H.264 up to [email protected] and
decoding of MPEG-2/VC1/Divx video up to [email protected] fps"
That's an odd discrepancy, particularly for an official Samsung processor owner's manual.
Also worth mentioning is that that manual makes no mention of OneDRAM in the memory subsystem breakdown where OneNAND, LPDDR1, LPDDR2, and DDR2 support are outlined, however, it's clearly listed as a supported memory type in the block diagram, and later throughout the manual. Hmm.
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Some info about Orion processor

Top Eight Features of Orion 1GHz dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 Mobile Processor.
1. Five times faster in delivering 3d content , greater multimedia experience with this processor, you can play 3d games , and you can play video up to 30 frames a second and with the resolution 1080p with High definition clarity. Just imagine what will be the speed of applications used in the processor, we judge processor performance on how it renders 3d content, this orion processor has the capability to render 3d content five times the speed of previous processors.
2. 1080 High definition video encoding is available with Orion, a 1GHz dual-core ARM Cortex-A9
3. Faster CPU speed because this processor uses two A9 cores one with 32 kilobytes of cache and another with 32Kb instruction cache and also it has got a 1MB L2 cache helps the processor to run really fast.
4. Different types of storage options for end users.
6. GPS receiver is embedded with Orion 1GHz dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 that itself a great feature of this processor.
7. On board features are embedded in this processor for Quick Multi tasking.
8. With the help of HDMI chip 1.3a interface this processor two on device display screens with an additional display from tv or monitor.

if the gps is embedded does that mean it should have the same kind of performance as the qualcomm chips when it comes to gps?
i hope that will be the case.

Orion is Exynos now, buddy
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bobloblawsum said:
if the gps is embedded does that mean it should have the same kind of performance as the qualcomm chips when it comes to gps?
i hope that will be the case.
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It's an SoC so most of the things will be embedded.

Kelthuzar said:
1. Five times faster in delivering 3d content [ ... ], this orion processor has the capability to render 3d content five times the speed of previous processors.
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Where does that come from ? faster than which processors ?
I mean the only benchmarks I've seen so far show that depending on the situation it is either on par with the previous GPU (SGX540, adreno 205...), or slightly faster (about 20%) than the SGX540.
3. Faster CPU speed because this processor uses two A9 cores one with 32 kilobytes of cache and another with 32Kb instruction cache and also it has got a 1MB L2 cache helps the processor to run really fast.
Click to expand...
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Nothing new here, hummingbird had the exact same amount of cache (although of course there's only one core)
7. On board features are embedded in this processor for Quick Multi tasking.
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Click to collapse
Could you tell us more about that please ? It doesn't make any sense to me :-/
what features are embedded, and how do they improve multi tasking performance ?
8. With the help of HDMI chip 1.3a interface this processor two on device display screens with an additional display from tv or monitor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I know the guys from MHL said that SGS2 would have an MHL port, but do you know if we'll be able to use it out of the box, and for what content ? (videos only, or full mirroring for games etc.) thanx !

BlueScreenJunky said:
Where does that come from ? faster than which processors ?
I mean the only benchmarks I've seen so far show that depending on the situation it is either on par with the previous GPU (SGX540, adreno 205...), or slightly faster (about 20%) than the SGX540.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At about 54:50 in the video he says the GPU is 5 times more powerful that previous application processors.
The video is from Samsung's Barcelona press conference.
http://www.samsung.com/uk/mwc/
Normal usage of the finished released product will show the real performance, benchmarks can be unreliable.

Yeah, but they don't give more information : saying "it's 5x faster" doesn't mean anything if you don't tell people how you came to that conclusion :-/
And although one benchmark on a pre-release product is not enough to say how fast a device is, from what I know I can only say that it is "somewhat faster than hummingbird", but I doubt it will be 5x faster in real life situations.

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/support/brochures/downloads/systemlsi/Orion.pdf
Everything you need to know, yes I know its from 2010 but dont think anything has changed?

madpete said:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/support/brochures/downloads/systemlsi/Orion.pdf
Everything you need to know, yes I know its from 2010 but dont think anything has changed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First time I have seen that and I have been digging around for info, thanks!