Database Users

Name And Shame Ebayer Stealing Xdev Material.

To all
Mods, I apologize if this is not the right place to put this thread, but I figured that it will have more exposure to the developers than if I were to put it in General.
I just learned from the Slither's cube thread that there is an ebay user trying to sell his work. However, if you look into his other stuff, he is also selling S2U2, PocketCM, PCM Keyboard, Grumps Iphone Interface, the Iphone Dialer, along with some other apps.
Here is the link to his auction(s)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Iphone-Theme-To...ryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I urge you guys that if this is your work, to report this a--hole to Ebay. Who knows, maybe even slap a suit or two.
Mods, can we get this as a sticky (at least until this is resolved)?
Thanks

Absolutely disgusting.

I'm curious if people's programs are being licensed, that sucks. hope he gets removed from ebay, that's not right.

Maybe people xda should set up a freeware license. Free to use, but illegal to sell. That way people will have legal rights to their work.

Thats seriously out of order! What a complete £^&*%$!!!!
MM

MaxMotus said:
Thats seriously out of order! What a complete £^&*%$!!!!
MM
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I can just confirm I never gave any authorization for that.
... but ebay isn't really helping me in this case apparently...

tene, I hope this doesn't deter you from furthering development on any current or upcoming projects.

tene said:
I can just confirm I never gave any authorization for that.
... but ebay isn't really helping me in this case apparently...
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Like I said in my first post. We can try to report this a--hole to ebay. He is obviously doing it w/o permission from any of you guys. Let's try to do something about it. Any ideas are welcome. I think that the same thread where I got this from, also had a link for violations of intellectual property for ebay. I will look it up and post it here when I find it.

are the works here licensed under GNU GPL open source?

i swear if i find this guy ripping my rom build and posting it on ebay i'll personally make it my mission to find him and knock some sense into him! this just makes me sick, i dont even ask for donations for the stuff i've contributed and this [email protected] goes around making money from us. the sad thing is people actually buy his stolen stuff.

newbie1221 said:
i swear if i find this guy ripping my rom build and posting it on ebay i'll personally make it my mission to find him and knock some sense into him! this just makes me sick, i dont even ask for donations for the stuff i've contributed and this [email protected] goes around making money from us. the sad thing is people actually buy his stolen stuff.
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Keep in mind that a lot of people do not know about this site. In looking for the latest upgrades for something that is supposedly not upgradeable, all of the sudden you see it in ebay "cheap" and hassle free with easy to follow instructions, I would not think about it twice and purchase it.
I do agree with you, if I had an app stolen for profitable purposes by this guy, I would not rest until I up my foot so far up his as% that he would have to make a whole in my boot to be able to eat...

I don't agree with what he is doing, but the fact is, he could argue he is only "selling" his original work and material. The applications are all freeware (true even if they were GPL). He states that, "This auction is for a CD with all tools and step by step instructions (with pictures)." Assuming he wrote the instructions and is compiling the CD, he may be sly, but not illegal. If he was making claims on the "tools" then that would be a different story.
Like I said, I don't agree, but I am not sure it is illegal, or against ebay policy.

I sent a note to the PocketCM folks. I figure it can't hurt to get as many people being hurt by this guy in on it.

I suggest we email the buyers. In fact I've done the top three in his feedback. They can complain to paypal or ebay themselves

PhilD41 said:
I don't agree with what he is doing, but the fact is, he could argue he is only "selling" his original work and material. The applications are all freeware (true even if they were GPL). He states that, "This auction is for a CD with all tools and step by step instructions (with pictures)." Assuming he wrote the instructions and is compiling the CD, he may be sly, but not illegal. If he was making claims on the "tools" then that would be a different story.
Like I said, I don't agree, but I am not sure it is illegal, or against ebay policy.
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Im affriad Phill is right if we were to do somthing about it he could back fire on us.... we dont know if in the instrutions it say thanks to the guys from xda-developers.... i dont agree cuz there still the fact that he is charging for freeware that are people from xda ppcgeeks and ect are working there arses of for fun of being admired for there amazing power by us (the public)
im just simply saying.... lets think before we raise hell on him

Makes a good point, he may jsut be selling "his instructions and his cd-r and packaging", but that's not cool. I guess, like someone mentioned earlier, just point out that it's here for free. and by the way I donate whenever I can, at least 5 bucks and i'm no richy rich!
PhilD41 said:
I don't agree with what he is doing, but the fact is, he could argue he is only "selling" his original work and material. The applications are all freeware (true even if they were GPL). He states that, "This auction is for a CD with all tools and step by step instructions (with pictures)." Assuming he wrote the instructions and is compiling the CD, he may be sly, but not illegal. If he was making claims on the "tools" then that would be a different story.
Like I said, I don't agree, but I am not sure it is illegal, or against ebay policy.
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Westie277 said:
im just simply saying.... lets think before we raise hell on him
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You can raise hell on him.
My applications are available for free, but distribution isn't allowed, it's clearly stated about everywhere. Freeware doesn't mean "do whatever you want with it".
The prob here, is that I can just waste time complaining to ebay, which take time and probably won't lead to anything.
I should probably just stop waste time sharing my stuff completely, it would certainly avoid this kind of issue (and that means you'll never see PocketCM Calendar).
ps: for the people that didn't make the link, "pocketcm folks" is basically ... me.

and people have actually bought software from him.....ridicoulous

someone should sue. I'm not rally one for lawsuits but cmon!

You could start another auction with a similar title, and in the description, tell people about this site and that all other auctions are rip-offs. That way people searching for such things would likely see it.

I am Making A Website

I'm making a site, called market4android which you developers can feature your apps/roms on, etc. I'd love for you guys to contact me so we can get the ball rolling. It's a great domain that gets a lot of search engine hits, so if you're looking to get your name out there and get your apps out there, then please PM me and let me know what you have and all that cool stuff!

The site should be online for most of the world. If it is not, give it a while because it may still need to update on world servers.
Check it out, leave feedback, etc, and developers! hit me up and let me know if I can post your ROMs on the site. Don't want nobody getting mad at me!

Reminds me of a site that I frequent called XDA.
Maybe I am missing the point? Are you simply offering to host files?

jerry43812 said:
Check it out, leave feedback, etc, and developers! hit me up and let me know if I can post your ROMs on the site. Don't want nobody getting mad at me!
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You'll never get anywhere waiting for others to send you content. If you want to post a rom, post info, screenshots, etc. and link out to the post where they can get it and more info.

This may be a dumb question, but here goes anyway....
It's not hard at all to get an app included on the Android Market. What advantage are you offering over going that route?
So far I've only written a few Android apps, and they were both custom jobs for clients that would not be at all interesting to the general public. (And they have a LOT of tweaking left to do before I'd call them anything I'm proud of. I'm new to Android, it'll take awhile for me to catch up with the stuff I've done for WinMo and PalmOS.)
But I've considered diving into some more generally appealing projects, and the Android Market currently offers me both the ability to distribute for free, and the ability to monetize my efforts if I decide to go that route. Either route gives me pretty widespread exposure.
As a developer, my main question would be: "What extras are you offering that the existing marketplace leaves out?" (i.e. How can you make me more money? And/or give me wider exposure?)

I don't think he is making a place to distribute apps (at least that's not what I got), I thought he was making a place to be like "hey look what's going on in the dev community, check out this app and this rom, etc."

gthing said:
I don't think he is making a place to distribute apps (at least that's not what I got), I thought he was making a place to be like "hey look what's going on in the dev community, check out this app and this rom, etc."
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So a review site?
That could be very, very cool. Only trick is building a large readership.....
With that in place, it could very easily be something that developers want to pay close attention to.

gthing said:
I don't think he is making a place to distribute apps (at least that's not what I got), I thought he was making a place to be like "hey look what's going on in the dev community, check out this app and this rom, etc."
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You got the idea down pat!

subliminalurge said:
So a review site?
That could be very, very cool. Only trick is building a large readership.....
With that in place, it could very easily be something that developers want to pay close attention to.
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I'd definitely be letting developers have publisher accounts so they can work on getting exposure from my site, etc. It's not totally about me distributing apps...
Try to picture this: I can get traffic. Traffic coming to my site and seeing your apps there, your ROMs there, etc, want to download them, etc, well, not only gets you not only exposure, but income from the apps as well seeing as how they're downloading you stuff because they found info and reviews on it on my site.
Yes, the market would definitely be the #1 way to go, but what harm can it do to get some more exposure to your stuff? as well as get user reviews and the income that youre concerned about?

danknee said:
Reminds me of a site that I frequent called XDA.
Maybe I am missing the point? Are you simply offering to host files?
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I will create mirrors for your files etc, and yes, you are missing the point. I wasn't 100% absolute sure in the direction I was heading with this, but I am offering you the exposure of traffic that comes to my site to see your apps etc, when they may not have ever noticed your app in the marketplace. User reviews, developer releases and all kinds of cool **** can happen here if you're willing to crack the shell away a little bit and accept my offer of free exposure to your stuff.
Why the hell would anyone pass up free? Beats me.

jerry43812 said:
I wasn't 100% absolute sure in the direction I was heading with this,
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For the record, my comments were not meant to be disparaging, but to help you figure that out.
I'm not going to go into how old I am, but I'm not exactly wet behind the ears. I was making a living in the "computer field" since long before anything called a "web browser" ever existed. The first time I heard about Mosaic, my reaction was "eh, sounds like gopher with pictures. big deal." (It wasn't a great article....)
There are two main reasons why projects fail. The first, and by far the greatest, is because the people starting that project never ask themselves, and come up with a clear answer to, "what problem am I trying to solve?"....
The second reason is that they fail to ask themselves "Is my solution something people will actually use?".
If you have good answers to those two questions, then the rest is just the legwork of getting it done. If you don't have good answers to those questions, then no amount of work will produce a successful outcome.
Sorry if I sound harsh, just trying to be helpful.

subliminalurge said:
For the record, my comments were not meant to be disparaging, but to help you figure that out.
I'm not going to go into how old I am, but I'm not exactly wet behind the ears. I was making a living in the "computer field" since long before anything called a "web browser" ever existed. The first time I heard about Mosaic, my reaction was "eh, sounds like gopher with pictures. big deal." (It wasn't a great article....)
There are two main reasons why projects fail. The first, and by far the greatest, is because the people starting that project never ask themselves, and come up with a clear answer to, "what problem am I trying to solve?"....
The second reason is that they fail to ask themselves "Is my solution something people will actually use?".
If you have good answers to those two questions, then the rest is just the legwork of getting it done. If you don't have good answers to those questions, then no amount of work will produce a successful outcome.
Sorry if I sound harsh, just trying to be helpful.
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Not harsh at all and I comprehend your points. Maybe my tone sounded harsh when it was simply factual and jsut telling my purpose.
I feel that the purpose of this site I opened is good, and it can be very useful. But just like any other good thing, it usually cannot be done by one person. Support for the project is always a plus, and it can be made to be an excellent resource for people who are green on both sides, that want to get into modding android devices.
I dont think that it is a waste of my time, but in order for it to make it to where I'd like it to be, it can definitely use all the support and input that it can get. Thats why I brought the whole subject up, here. There are lots of developers here and even I am new to a lot of the stuff here, and I feel that it would be a great asset to a lot fo folks here if you jsut give it a chance.

jerry43812 said:
Not harsh at all and I comprehend your points. Maybe my tone sounded harsh when it was simply factual and jsut telling my purpose.
I feel that the purpose of this site I opened is good, and it can be very useful. But just like any other good thing, it usually cannot be done by one person. Support for the project is always a plus, and it can be made to be an excellent resource for people who are green on both sides, that want to get into modding android devices.
I dont think that it is a waste of my time, but in order for it to make it to where I'd like it to be, it can definitely use all the support and input that it can get. Thats why I brought the whole subject up, here. There are lots of developers here and even I am new to a lot of the stuff here, and I feel that it would be a great asset to a lot fo folks here if you jsut give it a chance.
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Oh, I never meant to imply it was a waste of time. Nothing of the sort. I think the Android platform has a huge amount of potential. For the people developing the platform, for the people developing apps to run on top of it, and for people creating the entire ecosystem that will surround it.
I guess what I was trying to do was get you thinking about a statement that you ended up making yourself. That you weren't 100% sure about the direction you wanted to take this. Whatever direction you decide on, I think your chances of success are much greater if you have a clear idea of what that direction is.
That said, I like your idea. I'd love to hear more about what you have in mind.

subliminalurge said:
Oh, I never meant to imply it was a waste of time. Nothing of the sort. I think the Android platform has a huge amount of potential. For the people developing the platform, for the people developing apps to run on top of it, and for people creating the entire ecosystem that will surround it.
I guess what I was trying to do was get you thinking about a statement that you ended up making yourself. That you weren't 100% sure about the direction you wanted to take this. Whatever direction you decide on, I think your chances of success are much greater if you have a clear idea of what that direction is.
That said, I like your idea. I'd love to hear more about what you have in mind.
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Why dont you PM me with some messenger info so we can talk? I run ICQ and AIM because ICQ is what is industry standard in the industry I work in.

jerry43812 said:
Why dont you PM me with some messenger info so we can talk? I run ICQ and AIM because ICQ is what is industry standard in the industry I work in.
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Will do. I mainly use Skype these days for IM, but I can throw ICQ on my computer real quick.

subliminalurge said:
Will do. I mainly use Skype these days for IM, but I can throw ICQ on my computer real quick.
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Awesome, look forward to talking with you!

Got an article coming soon on the best battery app I found, along with some info from the developer. This should be live within a day or two.
I am looking for more stuff to write articles about, and it will involve some email communication between us so I can get the most accurate info onto the site.
Anyone want to be the one of the first few people to get featured on the site? PM me your email address so I can contact you

jerry43812 said:
Got an article coming soon on the best battery app I found, along with some info from the developer. This should be live within a day or two.
I am looking for more stuff to write articles about, and it will involve some email communication between us so I can get the most accurate info onto the site.
Anyone want to be the one of the first few people to get featured on the site? PM me your email address so I can contact you
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Got that article written and set live, and I also have a few other things on there, including a comprehensive guide to rooting the Sprint HTC Hero.

well an app review site would be great as i tend to follow users input when i download apps, and the input in the Market is just crap .. what some user find to be a bad app could actualy be a very good app for others. i sometime do it myself when i download an app , i look for user rating and comments. and decide wether to download the app or not, based on the user ratings..
The other thing would be a app request, meaning i been loking for an app that will play FLAC or AAC music files, i found 2 , 1 is from XDA ( a good app but the GUI is must to be desired ) the other is a cheap app that sometimes plays sometimes dont.. LOL
if someone would make good app for this i would be willing to pay for it 20.00 if i had to ...
The point is i would love a place that i could go to and request an app or suggest ideas for an app..
my 2 cents

rgildoss said:
well an app review site would be great as i tend to follow users input when i download apps, and the input in the Market is just crap .. what some user find to be a bad app could actualy be a very good app for others. i sometime do it myself when i download an app , i look for user rating and comments. and decide wether to download the app or not, based on the user ratings..
The other thing would be a app request, meaning i been loking for an app that will play FLAC or AAC music files, i found 2 , 1 is from XDA ( a good app but the GUI is must to be desired ) the other is a cheap app that sometimes plays sometimes dont.. LOL
if someone would make good app for this i would be willing to pay for it 20.00 if i had to ...
The point is i would love a place that i could go to and request an app or suggest ideas for an app..
my 2 cents
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You're able t request apps and stuff there, I honestly havent set that section up because I am working on other content first. You can possibly post a new thread requesting someone code something for you, but I am not sure on the pricing of their work, etc. Let me work on getting some good app coders on my side and then I'll open up the requests section.

[A THOUGHT] Copying in an Open Community

Android is open. That's why I have my Samsung Galaxy S, my Nexus One and my Sapphire.
I have these phones because the open community can do better than the professionals, and I am proud to be a member of a community that has recently hacked Froyo onto the G1, Android2HD2 (and other Winmo devices), created great skins and themes, rooted almost every droid to date, hacked google navigation to work in other countries etc etc etc.
There is amazing work being done is this community.
Kingklick was able to put out a lot of ROMs which satisfied a lot of people. Contributors to Cyanogenmod (disclaimer. notably not Cyanogen himself) and others (fans and friends - disclaimer. note lack of word fanboys - of cyanogenmod, disclaimer. plus some others too) have flamed and flamed away about Kangklick (notably via twitter - I have stopped following any of those jerks that clogged up my feeds with what could've - screw that - should've been settled MUCH more privately..I followed you guys for dev news or the occasional interesting insight into your real life, not your petty bickering, but you have every right to post what you like...hence why I stopped following you all, I didn't flame you...note 'bigger man').
Rule 12 of XDArules clearly states that using the work of others must be done with permission, independent of whether it is open source or not. If this is not upheld then the post will be bought down, it does not say the user will be banned. I would understand the formality of taking the post down and requesting Kingklick reposts the ROM with due credit, but I believe - note believe...implies opinion - that moderators may have been influenced by pressure from other (high ranking, public eye) members and thus did not adhere to normal or just (I do not know if not giving creds is normally treated in this way, but you will discover I believe it shouldn't be) protacol. Kingklick broke the rules of XDA, but then again I see his banning as the least contentious issue here.
I believe that members of the XDA community in the public eye (ie with large Twitter follower base) due to their work via XDA (no matter what you say, cyanogenmod may be based at its own domain, but it still posts at XDA to maintain its public profile and feed of the massive XDA userbase, and is hence in part bound by this) have a responsibility to follow the rules of XDA on XDA rules and disputes. I do not think this is something which can be policed ('I'm banning you Wes for Trolling Kingklick...on Twitter'... not gonna work) but I think it is a moral obligation (anyone that thinks the internet is not bound by morality should take a reality check...the reason why we have open source is essentially ethics).
Do we give credit to Linus Torvalds every time we distribute linux kernels or work to do with linux? Do we give credit to those that helped him create this base? Do we give credit to Google for creating Android? HTC? Our carriers? Martin Cooper for inventing the mobile phone and cell networks? Time Berners-Lee for inventing the internet, giving rise to this forum, Google and thus the Phones/Devices we love and use? The fact is we don't give credit where due (although you may say its obscure to thank these people, they DO deserve our thanks). None of the ROM chefs/coders give all credit where due, but a lot do in part, with those directly involved. But who still thanks the original rooters?
Kingklick has been declared a copier by the jury...I haven't delved through the evidence to confirm this...but shouldn't we be much more relaxed about copying in general? All users should be open about their work with Android, but they are not. If kingklick based a build off Cyanongenmod, and gave due credit for that, he would be called unoriginal, despite his attempts to make improvements. I also believe that there should be transparency, a log of all complaints of interest and the community told in a statement from the mods why someone was banned...at least in part (keeping gory details to themselves thank you very much).
Donations are generally given by 'end-users'...noobs who can flash and maybe do some work on the builds but their contributions are limited. End users generally want user experience, and reward devs with commendation and donations. If kingklick does work on a build which satisfies more users and he hence gets donations, is that stealing donations? No. The original dev works on an open source project knowing that their work is open, but the end user can reward as he/she likes. Perhaps kingklick developed his following due to his branding...he did always use words like FAST and STABLE and SMOOTH, but Apple do the same and they're not banned from trading despite the hyperbole.
I do not doubt that a lot of devs thanks fellow devs with donations. Cyanogen is well known for donating, as is kingklick, however a lot of donations come from end users, and if kingklick replaces a few files using winrar (something which I generally contest, I believe kingklick does a lot of great work) and that satisfies more end users by being fast and stable and smooth (or perceived as being so thanks to branding) then he can get donations for that, they are a gesture of satisfaction and goodwill.
Kingklick was immoral by not giving true credit, however I believe that he could have been warned and asked to give credit once he got back from his night out (whether that excuse, or what ever his actual excuse was, was true).
I also laugh at the accusation that kingklick does not fill a niche within the 'open'/'free' community. This should not result in grudges and flame wars, whether it is true or not. Kingklick did fill a niche in my opinion: reviewers (and consumers) see vanilla android as being sterile. Hell it is sterile, and it's never going to be as successful as others if it doesn't sort this out. Cyanogenmod and other big names are based off this sterile form of Android, but they don't delve into Sense UI and other alternative skins, mainly due to preferences or copyright problems etc, not that that stops them with other things. Kingklick did work with these and he filled his niche by delivering great, fast, usable roms of these whilst others sneered at them for being inefficient coding or whatever...geeky snobbery.
Kingklick also delivered various fixes and things which other groups did not. I won't list all of these and I am sure representatives of Cyanogenmob et al will say 'we were gonna fix these issues anyways' or 'that's redundant' or 'that was patchy code', but kingklick has contributed. Obviously we have to hold ethics above output, we can not say that 'his holiness' (inteneded to mock those who believe cyanogen alone is a god, not cyanogen himself) Cyanogen's contributions to android exempt him from following conduct, but we do a great job of driving away good developers with flaming and telling tales. Perhaps you'll say kingklick was not a good developer, Drizzy, even Haykuro etc etc, but I only flashed Cyanogenmod on my Nexus once and I didn't like it for various reasons (personal preference yada yada) but I kept going back for more kingklick...whether that's perceived speed and branding etc or just satisfaction.
King's desire roms are great, but we never mobbed, trolled and banned the poor guy for not giving creds to HTC. Surely the morality of our community using software like Rosie on the Nexus is more ethically questionable than a fellow member of XDA's work, since HTC is a firm which employs people. I bought a Nexus over the Desire because I knew I could still have Sense and a bigger dev community, however the cost included in the Desire which goes to the developers of Sense is hence forgone (perhaps indeirectly, I don;t know HTC internal funding); therefore I have - and anyone who has ever flashed a Sense ROM or devved with Sense - indirectly caused loss of welfare for people who rely of developing as their source of income, tehir families, communities and economies. Surely that is less ethical than not saying thank you, but XDA has no problem with that. Perhaps it is too small to notice, but it will have an indirect impact nonetheless.
Yes kingklick should've said his please and thank you, but I think it's community hyped double standards, pretensical courtesy (not that I wouldn't give creds, it's just that pleases and thank yous are nice, but not actually useful). A wise man once said 'there is no threshold for immorality', just because kingklick did a larger 'crime' than the rest of the community in not giving his thanks out, that does not exempt the other rule breakers (ie everyone), it just means their punishment should be less severe...we choose to ignore it because it's less direct or forgotten about.
In conclusion, I think we should start a 'contributors to Android' part of XDA, added to by mods or specifically appointed members of the community (like the portal). This could be informative and could mean that forgotten about contributors could not be forgotten, but their contributions immortalised in the open community of Android. Even if the contributions become redundant, they are the foundations for the next chapter in the Android story.
Finally. www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html is a very good read..and think about what AOSP stands for (I'll give you a clue...Android Open Source Project!). Can you steal what is open? What right have others to dictate what can and cannot be distributed in the open aspects of Android code (ie the underlying OS and vanilla UI...I'm not confused with Apps). Perhaps kingklick was guilty of plagiarism? But so is anyone that claims they worked really hard in that kernel without crediting Linus and leaving a donation link to his family or favourite charitable causes. Anyone that says I've reworked the UI without giving credits to The Astonishing Tribe for the original Android concepts which all UIs are based off...
Android is closed, that's why I question this 'community'.
I am not proud to be a member of this 'community'...right now.
Ps. Cyanogenmob was originally a typo (using words like mobbed in my piece...Freudian slip on the keyboard rather than fat finger syndrome)...but I kept it in as I thought it was funny...the Cyogenmob should replace team douche IMHO!
Pps. Originally posted in Android Dev general but moved here as its Nexus dev themed!

im proud of myself for actually completing this reading haha. interesting read though.

cheddie said:
im proud of myself for actually completing this reading haha. interesting read though.
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Im more proud of you for successfully quoting the entire thing...I might submit it for my dissertation next year

HazzBazz said:
Im more proud of you for successfully quoting the entire thing...I might submit it for my dissertation next year
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hahah thanks for bringing that to my attention. had to edit it lol

To be fair I posted the god darn epic rant/essay/post...my bad !

HazzBazz said:
To be fair I posted the god darn epic rant/essay/post...my bad !
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No, I posted it! I worked long and hard last week to write it out. I am accepting donations to cover my time spent though.

All this happens because altruism is evil in the sense that it is a lie. Altruists demand payment too, in the form of recognition, appreciation, respect, reputation, and all these similar thirst for prestige.
In NOT giving recognition to comrades In arms who share a common need for prestige, it is theft among kin, robbing prestige.
Prestige is indeed a rotten currency.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Touche...topical. Doesn't really do anything against my points, I am saying kingklick is guilty among many but they are appeased because they haven't got flames burning them. I do believe that kingklick should always give credit where due.

caysman said:
All this happens because altruism is evil in the sense that it is a lie. Altruists demand payment too, in the form of recognition, appreciation, respect, reputation, and all these similar thirst for prestige.
In NOT giving recognition to comrades In arms who share a common need for prestige, it is theft among kin, robbing prestige.
Prestige is indeed a rotten currency.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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Good point...the fact is cyanogenmod wouldn't be as big with as many great ethusiastic devs without the praise it got...but is that a fair compromise for contributions...

I really think that the issue is the same as black droid. The Problem isn't that king copied the rom and redistributed it. The problem is that he did so claiming that it was his work based off of CM. When in reality he downloaded a a finished copy of CM, compiled by the CM team, and then changed a few lines the build.prop, renamed it and asked for donations. I personally can't see how that is helping the community at all. I really don't care about King one way or the other but I do think that the people who do the work should get credit for it. They spend countless hours writing code for us to have for FREE. Code you yourself says is better than what google puts out. They do this in their spare time and ask for nothing but recognition. You think that is wrong? I am amazed by this. Really I am.

HazzBazz said:
Good point...the fact is cyanogenmod wouldn't be as big with as many great ethusiastic devs without the praise it got...but is that a fair compromise for contributions...
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Click to collapse
Don't misunderstand me. Payment is due, for sure, and payment makes our world go round, but I do wish it were not in the form of mousy prestige, rotten evil currency that it is. Money is a much better choice, but prestige seekers pretend to loathe $ probably because $ is less ambiguous.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

They do this in their spare time and ask for nothing but recognition. You think that is wrong? I am amazed by this. Really I am.
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Click to collapse
But they do not explicitly ask for recognition do they? Even the great cyanogen does not do that, because once they impose recognition expressly as a mode of payment you would recognize that their asking for your adulation and love would seen a more demanding payment than asking for cash.
And also the inconvenience of the prestige seekers being more easily mistaken for all the money grabbing corporations which they demonize.
I'd make it clear that I have not wanted anything other than cyanogen's roms during my g1 days, and adulation I'd gladly pay, plus I have donated in money.
These guys made android exciting and formed PART of the inspiration for the paid android developers. It is unfortunate that the society's misconception of altruism as ' good' destroyed a lot of the language required to denounce it as the evil it actually is.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Gr8gorilla said:
I really think that the issue is the same as black droid. The Problem isn't that king copied the rom and redistributed it. The problem is that he did so claiming that it was his work based off of CM. When in reality he downloaded a a finished copy of CM, compiled by the CM team, and then changed a few lines the build.prop, renamed it and asked for donations. I personally can't see how that is helping the community at all. I really don't care about King one way or the other but I do think that the people who do the work should get credit for it. They spend countless hours writing code for us to have for FREE. Code you yourself says is better than what google puts out. They do this in their spare time and ask for nothing but recognition. You think that is wrong? I am amazed by this. Really I am.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it was actually jubehs rom he did that with.....
@OP, Omitting credit and stealing are completely different things. kk downloaded jubehs rom and changed 5-10 files and claimed it as his own. when confronted with this, kk said he compiled it himself even though the evidence overwhelmingly pointed at the other direction. He claimed to have built it from asop, when all he did was take someones rom and change a few files. if he said he "cooked" the rom from another (even without saying who) he would have been ok. But he continued to lie after he was caught which is probably why the ban hammer was dropped.
Most of this plus the damning evidence is located in the g1 section.
Also, android does not follow the GNU licensing, it follows apache, and by default, the devs who release their material here are also released under apache. Apache allows people to see the source so they can better understand it to develop, but people who use the source to develop something from it are not required to open source their works. they are also allow to put their own terms which would include giving proper credit.
AFAIK xda mods actually work together to decide on what to do with offenders. i know thats what they did for the wrecking crew (though some mods were less fair than others -_- )
PS: i havent used cyanogen mod since like 3.6.8 before the C&D lol

The sad fact is, it takes money to live in the world today. A lot of these programmers make good money 9-5 at their day jobs. The average computer engineer spends about 100,000 dollars going to college then makes about 60-70k per year after. This is working on a salary basis probably putting 40-60 hours per week. After that they spend another 20+ writing code for us because they like to. I can completely understand the devs wanting someone who copied and renamed their work to be banned.
That would be like you taking Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire, Calling it Circle of Fire and trying to sell it as your own. You would get sued, etc. Come on people how can you defend this guy, come on really?

Tl,dr the OP.
flybyme said:
Omitting credit and stealing are completely different things. kk downloaded jubehs rom and changed 5-10 files and claimed it as his own. when confronted with this, kk said he compiled it himself even though the evidence overwhelmingly pointed at the other direction. He claimed to have built it from asop, when all he did was take someones rom and change a few files. if he said he "cooked" the rom from another (even without saying who) he would have been ok. But he continued to lie after he was caught which is probably why the ban hammer was dropped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If this is true, he got what he deserved. I had a similar thing happen when I wrote a script for the iphone which gets about 75-100 downloads a day. Someone from a forum put their name on it, posted it saying they were up all night writing it and put a donation link at the bottom of their post.
When confronted, they lied and said it didn't work so they rewrote it, but a simple comparison showed the only changes made was to echo commands which displayed the author's name and some text about how to run it. They also had no clue how it worked and gave bad advice about how to use it, and there were a lot of people on that forum using it, having problems and asking questions.
I didn't really care, and I never got a penny for my work, but it forced me to think about it, and what I came up with was: what use is there in having that kind of thing around? They aren't contributing or advancing ideas, they're confusing them and possibly screwing things up.
The douche that stole my script went from "moderator" to "supermoderator" at that site. If that was your site, why would you even want to keep him around? I'm not a banhammer kinda guy, but there's no upside to allowing things like that to continue.

Im no developer, but i do see both sides of the story. But I mean this is no way to act.
[email protected] please tell your teamdouche to grow up. We all know it was someone in it that just made that name
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kingklick92
whoever made that account with MY name haha ur f****g retarded, Ill see you in court. You distribuuted MY name
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kingklick92
whether you were in the right or not.
I think credit should just be given when you use someones work just like you would want the same for your work.
Delete if not acceptable.

Oh for ****'s sake.
OP, you're being a white-knighting ninny. KK got what he deserved: "open-source" doesn't mean an eradication of common courtesy--and crediting is common courtesy. You're trying to weasel around "blah blah why don't we credit HTC and Google" which is sheer, utter, retarded straw man. We know who developed Android by implication unless you live under a rock. Not so with specific individual community contributions.
Besides, what did KK even do? All I saw in the N1 development section from him was ROMs based off other people's work slightly modified, or rubbish that never worked like his attempt to port Blur. I say good riddance. The fact that he managed to scam donations off people hardly helps his case. I'd sooner donate to the source/original contributors, not such a juvenile, plagiarizing, useless waste of oxygen.

Let's make a big campaign to get JB's kernel for Atrix!

Hello guys,
Recently Motorola canceled ICS update for Atrix, but i'm wondering: did they started the dev and left middle way, or did nothing at all? If they stopped middle way, we might be able to use they kernel (it's what we need right now), and that would be awesome.
Ofc, Motorola won't release them easily. But what if we ask? What if we make a campaign on social networks and Android websites, and make it really loud? I'm sure i saw this happening for other stuffs, so why not our phone?
My idea is pretty simple:
We setup a hotsite with a simple message and users just have to click on the button referent to his social network to share the campaign. On Twitter, we can mention Motorola's profile, to be sure they are hearing us.
I already have the template ready, and it looks kinda like this: http://takemymoneyhbo.com/tweetit.php
I also have a VPS with Nginx + microcache, PHP-FPM and APC ready to go, so it's able to handle a big spikes of traffic (Digg/Reddit effect). What i need right now is the domain and, ofc, the message to be posted on social networks and on the hotsite itself.
We also would need to think about a name for this campaign (the name of the domain). Like i said, server is ready, template is ready, we only need the messages and a domain, since i can't pay for that at the moment.
As an alternative, we could also use this idea to get JB officially, but i think most of us would install a custom ROM anyway.
List of suggested domains so far:
icanhasdrivers.com
icanhasics.com
retakemotoatrix.com
myphonecanhasICS.com
weonlyneedyourkernel.com
updatemymoto.com (the chosen one)
What do you guys think? Worth doing it? Anyone up to pay for the domain? I will setup a donation button, if anyone is up for paying a domain, just donate
EDIT: The name of the campaign will be Update My Moto! The message for the hotsite and how it looks, can be see here: http://i48.tinypic.com/51eb95.png
As soon as we get the domain, i will close this thread and create a official one for the campaign. Let's rock guys!
Obs: sorry for my English.

might work if you also include other way to file a complaint against moto like via BBB. Motorola might not care about us when we complain to them but moto might care about losing the BBB accreditation. So include other methods like that.

Deafcyclist said:
might work if you also include other way to file a complaint against moto like via BBB. Motorola might not care about us when we complain to them but moto might care about losing the BBB accreditation. So include other methods like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can count me in on making as much noise as we can on the matter.

I think it is worth trying. I doubt we would succeed. But worth trying anyway.
So all you need is a domain? No hosting account?
What about:
icanhasdrivers.com or icanhasics.com

upndwn4par said:
I think it is worth trying. I doubt we would succeed. But worth trying anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why you doubt it will succeed? I can try to get it on Gizmodo and lots of other bug websites, since i myself own a big Ubuntu website at Brazil. I think we can make this get pretty big, and Motorola would end up listening.
upndwn4par said:
So all you need is a domain? No hosting account?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. We need to come up with a good name for the campaign and a good domain. I also need someone to pay for the domain, since with all the servers i already pay and other stuffs, i'm pretty much out of money haha
Oh, we also need a message that cause impact.
upndwn4par said:
What about:
icanhasdrivers.com or icanhasics.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Added to the suggestion list
Deafcyclist said:
might work if you also include other way to file a complaint against moto like via BBB. Motorola might not care about us when we complain to them but moto might care about losing the BBB accreditation. So include other methods like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is "BBB"? I'm sorry, don't think i know it. But as long as it have a share-able link, i'm able to add it.

julian_fern said:
Why you doubt it will succeed? I can try to get it on Gizmodo and lots of other bug websites, since i myself own a big Ubuntu website at Brazil. I think we can make this get pretty big, and Motorola would end up listening.
Yes. We need to come up with a good name for the campaign and a good domain. I also need someone to pay for the domain, since with all the servers i already pay and other stuffs, i'm pretty much out of money haha
Oh, we also need a message that cause impact.
Added to the suggestion list
What is "BBB"? I'm sorry, don't think i know it. But as long as it have a share-able link, i'm able to add it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"BBB" Stands for the Better Business Bureau. It's a consumer agency that takes complaints and helps direct it at the appropriate place. They work with the company and consumer to resolve the dispute. They cover businesses ranging from carpet cleaning to food to cell phone companies. Some companies tout their high rating with the BBB, like a report card, so they value it staying high.

How about retakemotoatrix.com or nomoremotofail.com

I kinda like the ring to "RetakeMotoAtrix"
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium

Lugaidster said:
How about retakemotoatrix.com or nomoremotofail.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we need to gather more moto users (photon, etc)
myphonecanhasICS
icanhasics.com --> the best so far

Vote me in. I have already tweeted with hashtag #motofail

Anything with "icanhas" it's too meme-ish to be taken seriously, IMO.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

I doubt Motofail will care about all the noise.

http://www.change.org/petitions/motorola-mobility-update-my-phone

I'm sick and tired of these corporations/companies walking all over dedicated customers and getting away with it, so you can count me in as well. Even if we don't succeed, I'd be glad to get back at this lying, backstabbing company with some negative publicity.

I don't think it will work because big corporations are stupid. They look at us and think they have only pissed off a few thousand users. They forget that people like us tend to be tech support/advisers for our friends and family.
I agree with jhonnyx that we will need support from other device groups too. I know the Photon got screwed, but what other devices? It would be helpful to post in their forums as well. This should also not be limited to xda. There are many other forums as well. Maybe once we get a little more organized. This will have to be a huge effort to succeed.
This campaign will also have to be clean and catchy. Nothing related to motofail. Motorola will never draw attention or succumb to anything like this.

Why not motoupgwanted... That way it could be used for more then just us?
All you need is domain? Cost what $10 a year, why not set up donation button I'm sure you can get 20 of us to give .50 cents (cost est)
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium

I have already submitted the following post in the usual Atrix ICS thread but I thought it would be useful in this tread as well.
"Just wanted to provide another pointer as to why it is possible to take legal actions and possibly criminal prosecution, in countries where it applies, against Google/Motorola. Security fixes, rather the lack of, from GB 2.3.4 to JB 4.0.1. You want to remember the latest security flaw in Android about a crafted web page that can wipe Android phones without a possibility to recover the lost data.
Why Atrix users should be left without the security fixes and how Google will propose a solution?"
Furthermore to what I have said in above I am certain that only a legal campaign will solve this problem, anything else would be waste of energy.
We already have enough valid technical reasons to argue the case but we need members with legal expertise in matters like this. In my opinion launching two legal precedents, one in Europe and the other in USA, would get us to a proper settlement. Please remember this is not really about just Atrix whereas about two corporates that ripped off consumers without a shame in bright day light.

Hey Motorola, just give us the drivers we want, and step away from the Atrix!
Seriously, is that too much to ask?

Count me in.
However, I also don't believe Moto will deliver. But if we can make some bad publicity to them, let's do it. They deserve it.
And...
Fishmoose said:
Anything with "icanhas" it's too meme-ish to be taken seriously, IMO.
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Click to collapse
... I agree.

Im in and also i wrote in the photon forum.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app

Project

I just hope this is the right place to post this, as I do not intend to misuse this forum, it has been very helpful to me over the past few years and I love seeing what yall come out with. That being said here is what I am proposing.
I am looking for some people who know how to build apps for android. As well apps for windows. ( pick whatever programing language you like we just need it to work) I can not pay anyone, but if a small team of people will join me and help get my ideas built as a team I believe we will become successful in the first prototype of what will be the future of cell phones.
I don't get to check the forum often so please reach me via email [email protected]
thank you all for taking the time to read this.

When you say "apps for windows" are you suggesting applications for Windows Phone OS or Windows OS (as in the OS that runs on PCs)?
People will find it hard to work without getting paid and they definitely don't want to work on an idea without getting paid that wont take off so I suggest you give some hints about what your idea is to let people make a better decision?

camp sheckbo
Thanks for the response, and I should have clarified that. Sorry. I was referring to Windows os for pc. I can completely understand people not wanting to work for free as what I am asking I imagine will be quite some work and most likely quite a bit of testing. I have to admit I am apprehensive about just laying any part of my idea out there but for the sake of giving everyone a vague idea of what I have in mind ( please forgive grammar and spelling at this point) is google glass but trust me when I say far better then google. and for now we aren't even building the "phone part" the app on both the phone and its counterpart on the pc should be generic in the sense that any android phone & windows pc user can use the prototype once it is done. Then we shop it around with the concept for the new phone. anyone willing to know more please just shoot me an email. I realize yall don't know what it is yet but I am convinced if made this product would make those involved if not as big as google then pretty close (maybe not in terms of there money but in terms on the name)
Brand is everything.

You could ask here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2349036

Re
nikwen said:
You could ask here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2349036
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Click to collapse
Thank you for the feedback. I will be checking it out.

A developer, looking for collaboraion
Hi Guys,
I am a long time developer for Android, iOS, BB etc with bunch of apps on the app stores, some dead on arrival, some successful, nothing like the next Bill Gates tho . Apps development is side job for me "for now", I am sure you know the feeling.
I guess what I am looking for here is somewhat the opposite to most of the posts here, where folks with amazing ideas looking for developers to "just make it happen". I have bunch of ideas, as well! (too many to count some for apps and some for other areas - chemistry, physics etc). I am looking for *developers* to work and collaborate, basically to brain storm and run through their ideas and my ideas, take our time to proper research and figure out business model, patents etc, maybe throw few baits in apps stores and see where it's going.
My thinking is that if bunch of us developers get together we stand a chance, I find it close to impossible to do it alone..
Of course we can sign all NDAs required etc to make everyone happy. I hope I did not violate any written or conceptual guidelines here.. please feel free to contact me, [email protected]
Thanks!
Udi

udihamudi said:
Hi Guys,
I am a long time developer for Android, iOS, BB etc with bunch of apps on the app stores, some dead on arrival, some successful, nothing like the next Bill Gates tho . Apps development is side job for me "for now", I am sure you know the feeling.
I guess what I am looking for here is somewhat the opposite to most of the posts here, where folks with amazing ideas looking for developers to "just make it happen". I have bunch of ideas, as well! (too many to count some for apps and some for other areas - chemistry, physics etc). I am looking for *developers* to work and collaborate, basically to brain storm and run through their ideas and my ideas, take our time to proper research and figure out business model, patents etc, maybe throw few baits in apps stores and see where it's going.
My thinking is that if bunch of us developers get together we stand a chance, I find it close to impossible to do it alone..
Of course we can sign all NDAs required etc to make everyone happy. I hope I did not violate any written or conceptual guidelines here.. please feel free to contact me, [email protected]
Thanks!
Udi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can ask in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2349036
Another possibility would be making it open-source.

We'll be happy to make it open source when we actually get to work on something
I will be happy to make "it" open source when I finally get to work on something exciting .. need to figure out first what it is thus first step before this need to get together with some bright minds here and decide what we want to work on.. then get it to format where folks can look at and work with as open source
nikwen said:
You can ask in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2349036
Another possibility would be making it open-source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

udihamudi said:
I will be happy to make "it" open source when I finally get to work on something exciting .. need to figure out first what it is thus first step before this need to get together with some bright minds here and decide what we want to work on.. then get it to format where folks can look at and work with as open source
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, you need an idea. Check the thread I linked. You might find an idea there.
For example you could join the WidgetsEverywhere project. It's working and it's open-source.