Related
Ok everyone,
There's been alot of movement both forward and laterally on the vogue-android project lately, and while it's all been great I'm having some concerns.
There has been alot of forking lately of the project. Different builds are great and I can't encourage that enough, but with all of the changes, and great developments being made to the rootfs and kernel we are losing alot of what made this project going great.
There's such a jumble of builds, out there right now it's getting confusing for everyone. So please guys can we move the project back to centralization?
By that I mean build threads are for system images only.
Changes to the rootfs's and kernel's are fantastic, but please can we make a new thread just for those?
As well to all the kaiser guys. Don't get me wrong I think it's great that so many of these files are working so good for you guys but can you keep development of your port to your forum, so there's less confusion for the new people? I've said it lots, if any of the kaiser guys wanna port over the builds I've ported to kaiser's go ahead, but please post them in the kaiser forum.
I'll happily keep the google code page updated with new bundles, that have been tested and confirmed stable, that page is not for specific people's work only, but for vogue/kaiser files that can be considered the standard files to use.
I support this.
well put. i feel the exact same way. i've given up till a bundle comes out cause im confused what is the newest or if it will work(not a fan of the kaiser now that they took over). I'm really hoping for more development on the android rom but im a script kiddie and no developer.. unfortunately
thanks for bringing this up
I could not agree more!
I've actually returned to running WinMo on my phone because I've become so lost in the Android project. There's so many different forks out there, and all sorts of random files being uploaded to Google Code, I have absolutely no idea what is what anymore.
It was going really well when vilord and dzo were working on it, now suddenly it seems both of them are out of it and the "vanilla" Android 1.5 builds are no longer being worked on. There hasn't been a basic "system" update in nearly a month now.
And to make matters worse, there's no clear explanation of what's what anywhere and nobody is posting proper change logs. So all these new files keep popping up with no word on what they're for and what's changed.
I just want to run Android on my phone, with no stupid skins, UI replacements or massive customizations of any kind... and I don't know how to do that anymore.
I'm not really sure why all this work seems to be focused on customizations right now anyways, when there are much more important things to work on like Bluetooth, aGPS, and a flashable ROM.
Yes, this is most definitively needed, not to stifle anyone's creativity, but to allow the maximum number of people to enjoy the project. Otherwise it's far too possible that all the various ports will just turn people off to Android, and it's far too important to allow that to happen. I've already asked mssmison to post whole, relatively stable packages so people don't get overwhelmed with all the various components and builds. Maybe a re-fresh of the packages every 2 or 3 weeks, along with the testing packages for all you brave souls to make it more user friendly.
I'm going to re-organize the google code page for vogue tonight so it should be more clear for everyone. vilord isn't out of the project, he just is moving
I've cleaned up the google code page a bit, I've depreciated some older downloads and the older bundle.
I keep all my builds separate and off the vogue-android page too keep it clean and focused on the main bundle there which is android-1.5-x. The test rootfs.imgs that I put out are only for testing purposes and are my personal experiments related to hero and they stay on vogue-hero. They do not apply to non hero builds and I try to state that in the threads I started for my other two non hero builds. I'm not supporting squashfs right now and I'm not going to be posting builds in squashfs right now. If people think that squashfs is the way to go then all images need to be in squashfs including android-1.5x builds. That would avoid the main squashfs rootfs/kernel/initrd fork thats going on with people downloading the squashfs base files. I don't support kaiser wifi builds of my hero images because they don't work for the vogue. I'll be taking down all kaiser/squashfs related files on vogue-hero until further notice and create vogue bundles of the files that work with each build.
i agree about too many different builds and files mixed together, it's really confusing to an average user like me who's sorta new to android. you devs should package up a zip with all the most stable, needed files for you specific builds so we can't mess up and download something that might not work right. myself i use my phone daily and for work, so i need stability.
mssmison said:
Ok everyone,
There's been alot of movement both forward and laterally on the vogue-android project lately, and while it's all been great I'm having some concerns.
There has been alot of forking lately of the project. Different builds are great and I can't encourage that enough, but with all of the changes, and great developments being made to the rootfs and kernel we are losing alot of what made this project going great.
There's such a jumble of builds, out there right now it's getting confusing for everyone. So please guys can we move the project back to centralization?
By that I mean build threads are for system images only.
Changes to the rootfs's and kernel's are fantastic, but please can we make a new thread just for those?
As well to all the kaiser guys. Don't get me wrong I think it's great that so many of these files are working so good for you guys but can you keep development of your port to your forum, so there's less confusion for the new people? I've said it lots, if any of the kaiser guys wanna port over the builds I've ported to kaiser's go ahead, but please post them in the kaiser forum.
I'll happily keep the google code page updated with new bundles, that have been tested and confirmed stable, that page is not for specific people's work only, but for vogue/kaiser files that can be considered the standard files to use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 to this! It's getting cluttered and confusing... BUT AWESOME!
stickus said:
+1 to this! It's getting cluttered and confusing... BUT AWESOME!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is it looking better now on the google code page?
whatever is in that new base files package really sped up my build from zen, ill tell you that much, now my phone recieves calls too. the only thing i notice is im back to the old style button map settings for adjusting volume and waking up the phone and such?
things look a lot cleaner on the google code page now... just DL-ing the new bundle you posted and we'll see how things go from there. Glad to hear that that old button layout is back, not really a fan of the newer one.
all i know is there is no lag to my build at all now, WOW...nice work guys!
fixxxer2008 said:
whatever is in that new base files package really sped up my build from zen, ill tell you that much, now my phone recieves calls too. the only thing i notice is im back to the old style button map settings for adjusting volume and waking up the phone and such?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All thanks to the bundle of files go to pmos, him and no one else. I just put together the system.
The button thing was accidental, however I have had alot of problems with my camera button not working intermittantly, we are working on a way of it being user selectable at boot.
I would also agree that some sort of organization is definitely needed. I think that system image threads should be condensed or organized in some way also. Having 15 threads, each with not too much information on what the build actually is, and info on the new update on page 15... just makes it hard for everyone. New comers and people who are experienced and trying to help others.
TheKartus said:
I would also agree that some sort of organization is definitely needed. I think that system image threads should be condensed or organized in some way also. Having 15 threads, each with not too much information on what the build actually is, and info on the new update on page 15... just makes it hard for everyone. New comers and people who are experienced and trying to help others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are 5 threads for builds. One for the kernel.
welll my phone is still running good today with that new bundle that was posted last night.
im still getting used to the old style button mapping but to be honest i like it better this way.
I think this post goes in the wrong direction.
The best thing of Android is that devs from different mobiles are working toguether to improve our phones.
I´m a polaris user and in the development of android for polaris developers with different phones help a lot
What we need is an Android section as it´s being petitioned in order to develop all toguether. Of course with organization.
Let´s think as Android and not only as vogue
iseeka said:
I think this post goes in the wrong direction.
The best thing of Android is that devs from different mobiles are working toguether to improve our phones.
I´m a polaris user and in the development of android for polaris developers with different phones help a lot
What we need is an Android section as it´s being petitioned in order to develop all toguether. Of course with organization.
Let´s think as Android and not only as vogue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree but remember this is a vogue forum, so for the average user that comes here, they have a vogue. If you guys have a polaris dev get him to contact me and we'll look into making the bundles work right with your phones as well.
Again this is why I posted the poll to move the dev to another forum where we can have proper organization
so i would like to learn how to do things for my phone and possibly help with the dev community. but i know practically nothing about linux or how to do anything useful. i am looking for links or other useful information to help me get started. i have lots of time on my hands and learn pretty quick. i assume i would start with the sdk (would i use the 1.5 one since thats what our phones are currently running on, or is the 2.0 out yet? and would i try from there), but other than that have no idea what else would be useful.
so.... yeah. helpful link to good info or any good e books, or anything like that that will get me going. thanks in advance
i would use the newest SDK, 2.0.1, and make sure that it will function on the emulators for both 1.5 and 2.0.1, frankly if you arent already proficient with linux or java, this wont be a easy thing to get into. However I WILL point out how threads like this are terribly pointless... you arent helping anyone out, and frankly you're asking for information that is quite available.
thanks for nothing. other than making me feel stupid.
Some help, maybe.
ix3u said:
thanks for nothing. other than making me feel stupid.
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I've been spending quite a bit of time on the threads here, I too am in search of more information specific to the android. I don't know that I'll ever be able to contribute too much to the devs, but at least I can understand my phone better, and help out with answering questions on the forums.
I would think that starting with something like creating a theme would be a good place to start, and would get you a little more familiar with the ways of android. Then I would move up into other things, and before you know it you will be much more proficient. It's all about starting somewhere. (and having a good backup)
Here's some posts / links that I have collected that i thought might aid me when i create some time to start the same endeavor...
* Ratcom's guide to creating Theme's
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=574167
* An Android Developers Guide (with tutorials, and tons of info)
http://developer.android.com/guide/index.html
* How-to's regarding android application development:
http://www.brighthub.com/mobile/google-android/topics/guides.aspx
* Tutorials and exercises
http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2007-11-19-n27.html
I haven't looked at most of those, but hopefully they will be a good start. I look forward to the day when I start looking at them too.
Hopefully that's helpful, it's all I can offer.
Good luck, and godspeed
-AndyS-
thanks., that is more like what i was looking for
jmhalder said:
i would use the newest SDK, 2.0.1, and make sure that it will function on the emulators for both 1.5 and 2.0.1, frankly if you arent already proficient with linux or java, this wont be a easy thing to get into. However I WILL point out how threads like this are terribly pointless... you arent helping anyone out, and frankly you're asking for information that is quite available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm. So much for helping someone out who at least has the desire to learn and grow to be more. Communist much? or just a Liberal Democrat? I applaud him for trying. Who knows more about where to get the information other than XDA? Hell a google search on this stuff turns up mostly useless garbage anyways. Why spend hours digging it up when someone else may know a good resource.
Lets refrain from flames/rebuttals please.
I have a few FAQ's and tutorials on my site. Also checking things like my release notes and mind map (linked in v1.0 release) will help. There aren't any full on tutorials but it's just a good place for general info.
Check my sig.
As flipz stated, there's no good centralized place for organized information. The best advice is truly to search this site, and search with google. It's an uphill battle getting that base of knowledge built up to get you going. I know, I'm still working my way up the hill. I thought about putting a site together to organize and share information but that would take away too much from what little time I have to spend on rom developement.
I doub't that is really the answer you were hoping to get but unfortunately thats the grim reality of things. Perhaps someone with a lot more free time than I, will put together a site of their own and compile and organize all kinds of good information in a central place. It would truly be a boon to the android community.
obelisk79 said:
As flipz stated, there's no good centralized place for organized information. The best advice is truly to search this site, and search with google. It's an uphill battle getting that base of knowledge built up to get you going. I know, I'm still working my way up the hill. I thought about putting a site together to organize and share information but that would take away too much from what little time I have to spend on rom developement.
I doub't that is really the answer you were hoping to get but unfortunately thats the grim reality of things. Perhaps someone with a lot more free time than I, will put together a site of their own and compile and organize all kinds of good information in a central place. It would truly be a boon to the android community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd be happy to bring some writers on to my site or to host some tutorials or anything that others have written. My job offers me a lot of flexibility and free time, however like you I am spending all of it developing right now. This kitchen is kicking my butt.
Edit: We'll see if I get any hits. http://geekfor.me/news/wanted-writers-for-faq-tutorial-help/
I may be able to help. My freetime seems to come and go, but I’ve always been pretty good at making How-To’s.
What format would be best?
html,pdf,etc…
ix3u said:
so i would like to learn how to do things for my phone and possibly help with the dev community. but i know practically nothing about linux or how to do anything useful. i am looking for links or other useful information to help me get started. i have lots of time on my hands and learn pretty quick. i assume i would start with the sdk (would i use the 1.5 one since thats what our phones are currently running on, or is the 2.0 out yet? and would i try from there), but other than that have no idea what else would be useful.
so.... yeah. helpful link to good info or any good e books, or anything like that that will get me going. thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good thread, thanks for starting it.
I'm in a pretty similar spot. 2 weeks ago I had zero exposure to or knowledge about Android or Linux. I'm proficient with Windows. In the last 2 weeks I've rooted, flashed RA 123, 151 & then 152. I backed up, ran an optimizer .zip file, restored, flashed fresh 1.0 and learned some very cool stuff. I'm comfortable in the terminal but I'm getting to where I'm not sure what I should or want to learn next. Also, although I've done these things easily half of it was just copying instructions from one of the fantastically helpful posts on this forum. Before I learn what to do next I'd like to understand the system better. I checked out wiki and ended up bookmarking a page that explains kernal computing, and a few others, lots of reading ahead
As a noob I have tried to learn without getting in the way too much. I'm glad you admitted your noobness and asked for some direction, you're not the only one who could use it!
obelisk79 said:
As flipz stated, there's no good centralized place for organized information. The best advice is truly to search this site, and search with google. It's an uphill battle getting that base of knowledge built up to get you going. I know, I'm still working my way up the hill. I thought about putting a site together to organize and share information but that would take away too much from what little time I have to spend on rom developement.
I doub't that is really the answer you were hoping to get but unfortunately thats the grim reality of things. Perhaps someone with a lot more free time than I, will put together a site of their own and compile and organize all kinds of good information in a central place. It would truly be a boon to the android community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like what the original replyee said but said much more tact.
I'm hoping that was a compliment in a round about way.
THIS is an amazing resource. I've stopped in there before but wasn't ready to poke around too much.
I'll see you guys/gals in the spring!
I'd like to offer some insight, but there's really not much more I could add than what's already stated and linked above. Everything you need to know can be found (usually) easily on the android developer site, or in a google search. The hard part is putting those pieces together to know what needs to be done in order to accomplish what. That's not an easy task: check out cyanogen's github projects (http://github.com/cyanogen). He's made modifications to the kernel, Android applications, core frameworks, configurations, recovery images, packaged resources/images, and more. It's not just one piece that goes into these builds.
Most of what you see around here (and this is certainly not to take away from all the great work I'm referring to, because this is just as important as everything else), are people modifying what was already done somewhere else, and making it work for their own phone. And really that's all it takes to move progress forward.
You don't have to be a linux whiz or a Java programmer to be able to make progress with your phone- you just need to understand how each particular piece works in order to make progress on that piece. If you want to make a theme, you need to know what jar or apk files contain the resources, and how to replace those images and styles. If you want to add support for the camera you need to know what linux driver it should use, and how Android expects to interact with that driver. Same for supporting accelerometer sensors, etc.
There's no definitive checklist of things you have to know before you can help development, it just depends on what what you want to help with, and your willingness to research how that particular piece works and what it would take to make the necessary changes.
maejrep,
Informative and encouraging. Thanks!
I have experimented with quite a few different ROM's, and have enjoyed trying them all out.
Just wanted to post a thought out there, and see if this would be worth pursuing or if something like this exists...
A table that compares the ROMs, version, refresh date, developers, features, additional software, bugs, etc, so folks can compare the different ROMs on one page.
Link the name of the ROM to its actual thread.
Just a thought I wanted to throw out there......
Thanks,
-Sf-
The closest thing that we have is this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=649705
But, it doesn't lay it out all that clearly without having to go to each thread and read through. Also, it is about 5 weeks since it was last updated, and we all know how much has been done in the last few weeks (especially Froyo...).
I think this is a pretty good idea. If you want to do something like this, I'd be willing to lend a hand. I am on vacation this week so have a lot of free time anyway.
I think that we could build on that format -
Add major features, bugs, developer name, etc.
Thanks,
-Sf-
It's easier to just link to all of them... you can take the time to go through the Dev's home page. After all, that leaves it up to the topic creator to update every single ROM's bugs and updates, which you can't expect them to do.
Sure, it would be easier to do that...for the posters. But, I feel that the people wanting to check out the roms would appreciate a nice overview of features and bugs then having to wade through some of the toics which can be dozens of pages, if not more. I'll probably start working on this tomorrow, since I've been spending the day figuring out why my parents computer sucks so bad. Found it - 256MB of RAM. ugh lol
this IS a great idea...would be very hard to keep it up to date and what happens if the one guy that posted the topic falls off the face of the earth? as a lot of people seem to do.
not trying to stop it before it begins. i'm willing to comb a topic or two and submit my findings...gonna need a bunch of volunteers to do the same to get multiple ROMs listed.
dusthead said:
this IS a great idea...would be very hard to keep it up to date and what happens if the one guy that posted the topic falls off the face of the earth? as a lot of people seem to do.
not trying to stop it before it begins. i'm willing to comb a topic or two and submit my findings...gonna need a bunch of volunteers to do the same to get multiple ROMs listed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed - I have seen lists on other websites, and they still show evil eris 1.1 as the most up to date. However, that being said, we are the most active android forum out there, especially for the Eris. I think this has the best shot in being the most accurate on the web.
We already have a comparison guide.
Its called xda-developers.com!
Lazy...lazy...lazy....
Just read! Its the best way to fully understand the ROM anyways. Way better than a spreadsheet with checkmarks and whatnot.
But if someone was willing to take the time, which would undoubtedly take A LOT of time, to list pros, cons, features, bugs, versions, updates, and all that jazz, it MAY be worth looking. But we've seen stuff like this before, it gets created, and then never looked at again.
Great idea! Yes people are lazy for not doing their own homework...but there are so many ROMs out there. I have read through almost every page of topics to the 4 or 5 ROMs I have interest in, and often find myself confusing features, bugs, etc of those ROMs simply because there are SO many pages to read through and so much to keep up with(especially when some of these topics are in excess of 200 pages). Among these 200+ pages are maybe 25 pages really worth any knowledge of having about the ROM...the other 175 are filled with redundant information, outdated problems that have been solved, and off topic or unrelated posts.
DO IT!
I was kinda thinking about creating a guide on my website since I can't really think of anything else to do with the domain/server I have lol...
or if someone else wants to, I can give them FTP access to a folder and I'll just host it.
Just an idea.
es0tericcha0s said:
Sure, it would be easier to do that...for the posters. But, I feel that the people wanting to check out the roms would appreciate a nice overview of features and bugs then having to wade through some of the toics which can be dozens of pages, if not more. I'll probably start working on this tomorrow, since I've been spending the day figuring out why my parents computer sucks so bad. Found it - 256MB of RAM. ugh lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah... but what happens if you stop updating? And how will you determine whether bugs are just one persons or all of theirs? And almost every ROM page I've seen has the bugs listed on the first post. I'm just saying the current system isn't just "ok" it's the best way to do it. You don't have to read through the entire thread to know the bugs, you can read the first post.
Well, it looks like interest in this idea is underwhelming at best. I'd be all about putting some time into this, but not for 3 people...
Sounds good to me!
This sounds like a great idea to me. I'll admit it would probably take a great about of effort and time to create and maintain but I'd be more than willing to lend my efforts to put something like this together and help keep it up to date. For all of you who are happy with the current system, it will still be there so keep using it. I don't think this is meant to be a complete list of everything there is to know about a ROM, more of an overview (correct me if im wrong). Plus, this would be GREAT for people who've just rooted and are trying to figure out what to try first. We all know its important to read a thread in its entirety before you flash
Just my $0.02
f z o n g
TheFzong said:
This sounds like a great idea to me. I'll admit it would probably take a great about of effort and time to create and maintain but I'd be more than willing to lend my efforts to put something like this together and help keep it up to date. For all of you who are happy with the current system, it will still be there so keep using it. I don't think this is meant to be a complete list of everything there is to know about a ROM, more of an overview (correct me if im wrong). Plus, this would be GREAT for people who've just rooted and are trying to figure out what to try first. We all know its important to read a thread in its entirety before you flash
Just my $0.02
f z o n g
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree - this list should be an "easy" way to glance over the different ROMs, and do a high level comparison. So if someone prefer's hero ports for example, they can go to the developer's page to determine if that ROM is right for them.
Just like when you research out a new computer, I usually do a high level comparison at first before I start digging into the "nuts and bolts"
I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily, I don't mean to crap all over it but here is what would need to happen:
The poster of the thread would need to understand bugs and things that have to do with the ROM's. They would need to be able to differentiate between one person's bug and a bug that multiple people are having and one that everyone is having.
The poster would need to stay updating this... what happens when they get a new phone? What happens if their computer breaks? Blah blah blah there are a thousand ways you can stop.
Really what you need is a Wiki, that way multiple people could update the information. Developers could submit their own ROM updates if they wanted and users could add reviews, comments etc.
Hungry Man said:
I don't think it's a bad idea necessarily, I don't mean to crap all over it but here is what would need to happen:
The poster of the thread would need to understand bugs and things that have to do with the ROM's. They would need to be able to differentiate between one person's bug and a bug that multiple people are having and one that everyone is having.
The poster would need to stay updating this... what happens when they get a new phone? What happens if their computer breaks? Blah blah blah there are a thousand ways you can stop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
for example. . . . what happens when your girlfriend kicks you out and you leave in a rage and forget your computer and storage drives. . . . (was working under the radar on something of the sort but low and behold victim of circumstance.
http://code.google.com/p/erisromtracker/
I'm primarily a web designer but know Rails as well, and a bit of PHP. I'd be willing to put some work into this, but I don't have time to do the whole thing on my own.
I'm thinking of a community-powered web app. Any registered user can edit anything. Edits can be "dugg" by other members to represent validity...I dunno, just some first thoughts.
I made the project page so that people could add ideas/etc and there would be an organized, sane place for figuring out how the whole thing would work, as well as a central repository for any work that actually gets done. It also just doesn't make a lot of sense to use a thread to do this, especially when we're trying to get around people using threads to do this.
^^^^
Eoghann said:
Really what you need is a Wiki, that way multiple people could update the information. Developers could submit their own ROM updates if they wanted and users could add reviews, comments etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
And this
Much better ideas because it's not just one person's job.
Man, I guess I'm one of the lazy ones! Actually, I've been looking through all the ROMs in lust (because I can't root - yet) and I need an easy way to figure out what the main differences are. I'd be in large favor of this!
As it appears people clearly like or dont like HTC Sense, would it be possibly to add these options to the dev forums, its getting really confusing trying to follow/ find anything with the page's updating every second and the random names dev's use to tag there builds
RenZ0R said:
As it appears people clearly like or dont like HTC Sense, would it be possibly to add these options to the dev forums, its getting really confusing trying to follow/ find anything with the page's updating every second and the random names dev's use to tag there builds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for my ignorance but do you need someone to hold your hand while crossing the street too?
inny2 said:
Sorry for my ignorance but do you need someone to hold your hand while crossing the street too?
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Click to collapse
Nope but obviously someone needs help on learning on how to throw together a witty non valid comment... it's a simple suggestion on cleaning up the forums to make them more user friendly, now, back under your rock troll...
I was going to suggest something similar too.Another thought was to not have so much discriptions on the headings,maybe just the basics of what is there.Then more detailed info when the thread is opened,maybe.I find it pretty confusing the differentiate between some of the builds.
I'm almost changing on a two daily basis my android roms and am very grateful for all the hard work being put into this so keep up the good work and thanks
I have to say its rather easy for me to figure out what type of build it is.
maybe its just me. Usually there is something in the header that tips me off.
RenZ0R said:
Nope but obviously someone needs help on learning on how to throw together a witty non valid comment... it's a simple suggestion on cleaning up the forums to make them more user friendly, now, back under your rock troll...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hazard99 said:
I have to say its rather easy for me to figure out what type of build it is.
maybe its just me. Usually there is something in the header that tips me off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you see the difference between me (troll) and you. Check the titles, waste some more time to install all the builds and you will find which developer and what build is what with what.
Thank you!
Your correct, Titles tell us everything
[BUILD]Mdeejay FroYo HD v.3.3 beta|1.24.405.1|kernel: hastarin r 7.1
must therefore be a Stock build.... oh wait, its Sense.
I could list various titles for hours with the amount of releases there is on a weekly basis, see what im getting at here ?
The suggestion I made has nothing to do with testing builds, what developer to use, or any other of the random questions about builds that are flooding the forums, its about a creating a simple sub forum so the two variations of releases can be easily distinguished and found by the user looking for it, and probably give a little leeway to the dev's from the constant requests they get to do a alternative build with/without sense, simple organisation allowing less clutter and less load on the xda servers search function.
No need subforums for Sense/Stock, Stock build is dying, in a few days you won't able to find any stock build in the first few pages, there are will be Sense and EVIL Sense...
RenZ0R said:
Your correct, Titles tell us everything
[BUILD]Mdeejay FroYo HD v.3.3 beta|1.24.405.1|kernel: hastarin r 7.1
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Click to collapse
Isn't HD in the title as Rom from Desire HD?
Plus most developers if not all put some screen shots at the end of their first post.
And we are talking for how many android roms in total? 10? Thats nothing compared to WM roms and GTX themed or Max-Sense. Needless to say the mess with the builds for 6.5 and 6.5.x builds. As soon as people get acquainted with what they have its fine.
I really don't want this to come across wrong, but I just have to say it.
Developers, I appreciate all your hard work. I understand this is all beta/test/etc. I understand it is free of cost, even to those who did donate to one dev or another. You do it because you want to, not because you have to.
But please, for the love of all that's good - keep an updated list of Known Issues!
It sucks having to read 50 pages of posts to try to figure out if a particular release is reliable or not, to find out if there's a key feature broken or buggy. What makes it worse is you can't tell when reading these threads which users are on which release, because many still post issues after they've been resolved. Others post things that aren't really "issues" but user error.
You know what your issues are, you read the threads and you fix the issues. But trying to find a decent rom to flash is very, very difficult when your OP says "No known problems" and the thread that follows show that to be very untrue. It generates a lot of extra posts with people posting things you already know about, and it generates a lot of bad will when someone flashes something only to find that there are a number of game breaking issues.
All it takes is to update a post, say #2, in your thread, with KNOWN ISSUES. Once you confirm a bug, whether you intend to fix it on your next release or not, add it to that thread. It helps you, as a dev keep track of the bug, and it helps potential downloaders know what bugs have been confirmed and make an educated decision as to whether they want to install your release.
Hiding known issues is something I don't think anyone does intentionally, but it feels that way sometimes. It feels like devs are in a popularity contest, and any admission of flaws in their particular ROM is a weakness. Well, to tell the truth, I and many others are sick of installing something that was CLAIMED to be working perfectly, only to have glaring problems that have been there for many versions.
For a civil and productive development community. Please. Be honest with your known issues. It will go a long way in building trust with the people who you're providing ROMs to, and will mean fewer posts for YOU to wade through of users reporting known issues, without having read 500 posts first.
I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate
They don't care to list them. It's beneath some of them.
Maybe AirBus should list "midair exploding engines" as a known issue too...
kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
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+1. Hell, at work I run a $100,000.00+ software suite and even that company won't do what the OP suggests!
If you have a problem with them stop using their roms go back to stock and see how much better theirs is even with a few bugs, not one of you has any right to complain. They do damn good work for free with some donations that do not come close to what they should be paid for it but they do not whine at all.
The problem I find is the "spammy" and useless comments average and pretentious users make which is both hard for the developer and the end user to read the threads. A dev releases a ROM and there is a guaranteed "Oh I can't wait to flash this" comment that will pop up. And there are some issues that are minor and are sometimes not related to the release that are posted and some pretentious loser who extends his ego by trying to make simple matters complicated. This forum didn't much of this problem before and I could quickly flash ROMs easily since I could clearly grasp the status on the ROM project.
I wish they would start a new thread with new releases. It's a pain to try to read through a 500 page thread, and you comments about this or that, and you have no idea which version the person is talking about. I gave up on custom roms and just using the leaked tmo 2.2, thanks for that Eugene
kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate
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A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.
Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
Update: Here is the link for the WIKI page.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
swehes said:
Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
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You are in a heap of trouble, a lot of people don't read, and you are gonna get 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 repeats of the same issue.
"OMG! MY SD CAR DONES"T MOUNT< HELP ME!11!!111"
chui101 said:
I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.
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The issue here is really that a forum is not the ideal place to manage software releases. A list of bugs emerges from community testing, but there's nowhere to "post" that list of issues, or attach it to a specific release. Since there's no way for the community to add such documentation, it falls on the ROM builder, who probably has other priorities.
This kind of project could be well served by using a real software project management software solution, such as say google code, which has an issue tracker and other useful features. But XDA does already give us a better tool than the forum - the XDA wiki!
I wish people would use the XDA wiki more extensively. This would be a good place to keep updated documentation such as this, without requiring the OP to keep a forum post updated with the latest findings. All the OP needs to do is link to the wiki page, and other people can help maintain it.
OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?
swehes said:
OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?
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Depends on the project. The Linux kernel is GPLv2, so any kernels fall under that license. AOSP as a whole uses both GPL and apache code.
The issue with ROMs is that unless they're AOSP derived (like cyanogenmod) they often include binaries for which the license situation is murky at best, so google code isn't really an ideal fit for a "ROM" that's only ever released as a binary.
Really I was throwing google code out there as a well known example, there are tons of other ways to track issues. There are dedicated issue tracking systems such as trac, bugzilla, etc, but they require hosting. Most of the freely available hosted services require that you're running an open source project, which isn't necessarily true for the ROMs here.
IMO a serious project could very well benefit from such tools, but just using an XDA wiki page which community members can freely update is a great first step.
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
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Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.
Stargazer3777 said:
Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.
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Thanks. On both accounts.
Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft
To quote "there are known, unknowns and unknown, knowns and and even sometimes unknown,unknowns............but.........
Developers ----develop they do not become a bookkeeper of their development.........that is coordinating work...........good luck getting any developer in ANY Specialty to do that............. reporting bugs........
---Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft---
N8ter said:
A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.
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I have yet to see a REAL (completely dead) "bricked" vibrant from flashing a released Rom alone. I have seen a lot of user error cause boot loops or "soft-bricks" & HWL phones become unflashable because the end user didn't take the time to research though. As far as devs being "lazy" I dont really see that when the developer is coming here for us to tell him what else we find wrong. They are coding, you flash, you report back with a logcat. This is how development is made to my understanding. If ppl are to lazy to JUST do this then why shouldn't the developer discount long winded post or something they are not experiencing? If they know there is a bug its in the OP.
If you guys can change the interwebz & how 500 post per update are made completely useless please feel free to do so....
swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
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I think it's a pretty awesome start for sure
As a matter of personal taste, I think having an individual wiki page per ROM (with the known issues and other detailed info) might be nice, although I'm not sure what the policy on new pages is with the XDA wiki.
Speaking from professional experience, the most challenging aspect of any documentation system is always convincing people to use it. It's great to compile the information, but unless ROM builders and devs post a link to the wiki in the forum threads nobody will ever see it. Having good, community based documentation is a benefit to everybody though, so hopefully people will recognize the utility of it and encourage its growth!