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Coming from the Rokr E6(that came out in 2006) that has a intel PXA270 Rev7(v51) processor, a part from the built Ati graphic chip in the Qualcomm I am very dissapointed. I know the the processors are different but come on, The E6 was clocked at 312MHZ and could be boosted to 530MHZ and 624MHZ and was a single core processor. Today I got real excited because I found this app called nueCPL-ClockSpeed v1.3 thinking finally I will be able to this push Duel core Processor higher than a measley 528mhz.Sadly, come to find out the app limit to push the processor was only 528mhz. I posted a screen shot to show. Does anybody that knows the ins and outs of the Qualcomm MSM2700, know if it can be pushed higher than 528MHZ and would be so kind enough to list the apps that can do it.
After searching this forum for some type of answer, I came to the conclusion that I'm never buying a phone with a qualcomm processor again.
Viper89 said:
After searching this forum for some type of answer, I came to the conclusion that I'm never buying a phone with a qualcomm processor again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, you aren't the first person to express disappointment with qualcomm.
It's not a bad processor, but for our smartphones (which the average XDA member probably requires a lot of CPU power) it is a little weak. I think the average Joe with a stock WinMo phone would be fine with it, but I must admit I am underwhelmed.
I want Snapdragon in my next phone.
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7200a&c=qualcomm_msm7200a
on this site you have mostly all smartphones and their processors. and its said that 528Mhz is the Max recomendable speed so i gues its not possible to set it to more then 528MHz. but if you look at devices with these processor X1 was one of the first that used this processor. and even this year there were good phones that used this 2 year old processor technology (HTC Touch Pro 2, HTC HERO). Shure its no 1 or 1.5 GHz Snapdragon but i think its a fine processor. N97 has weaker processor and alot of folks think N97 is better than X1 (I still dont agree with them).
gbajzelj said:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7200a&c=qualcomm_msm7200a
on this site you have mostly all smartphones and their processors. and its said that 528Mhz is the Max recomendable speed so i gues its not possible to set it to more then 528MHz. but if you look at devices with these processor X1 was one of the first that used this processor. and even this year there were good phones that used this 2 year old processor technology (HTC Touch Pro 2, HTC HERO). Shure its no 1 or 1.5 GHz Snapdragon but i think its a fine processor. N97 has weaker processor and alot of folks think N97 is better than X1 (I still dont agree with them).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you for the link, it's not a bad processor but it's defiantly to weak to run WM, My phone freezes everyday which is freakin ridicouls I've never had this problem with my old phone which had a far less superior processor, then again my old phone ran linux and I'm using the original rom that came with the phone but still thats no excuse for having to reset my phone every day and even running the latest thigs to improve perfomance like advace config etc.....
Hi guys, i think most of you have heard the rumor about the X1 CPU is underclocked to 400MHz.
Is it true or not? I found something about the battery status app showing only 400MHz, but someone said that 400MHz is the max frequency battery status can show. Then i found something with the Xperia X2 info tool (dont know the name) showing 400MHz, too.
I downloaded nueClockControl, it shows 528MHz.
loco
locomarco said:
Hi guys, i think most of you have heard the rumor about the X1 CPU is underclocked to 400MHz.
Is it true or not? I found something about the battery status app showing only 400MHz, but someone said that 400MHz is the max frequency battery status can show. Then i found something with the Xperia X2 info tool (dont know the name) showing 400MHz, too.
I downloaded nueClockControl, it shows 528MHz.
loco
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The frequency IS 528MHz. Try the JBenchmark estimator if you don't believe nueClockControl:
http://www.jbenchmark.com/jbacepr.jsp Mine shows 515MHz estimated.
Some MSM chips can be overclocked. I have had my TP run at 800Mhz before.
Check THIS out.
Pretty sure it won't work with the X1 but who knows.
dwizzy130
Unfortunalety it's not working with X1 (stock german ROM). The phone freezes instantly when i confirm the Clock change to 768 MHz.
I was a little disappointed of the X1, when i tried to run Super Mario or Mario Kart on SNES Emu (not to mention Metal Slug 2 @ FinalBurn, it's even worse). I thought this would be working better with more than 500Mhz and 256mb RAM. I hate to play games without sound.
I wish it would be as good as a PSP at 222 MHz. Ok, PSP has only 480x272, but also it has only 32mb RAM and only 2mb RAM for GPU.
Vipe'
I feel your pain. Add me to those who are disappointed with the Qualcomm 7200 and will not buy another WinMo phone without a 1 GHz processor. Otherwise, here are some confirmations and other observations:
- The current X1 processor DOES run at 528 MHz as others have mentioned above
- It CAN be overclocked to 768 (or so) with neuOverclock and it's like a sweet dream, but...
- neuOverclock is highly unstable. Most of the time it simply freezes the phone, requiring a reset. For some reason I could only usually get it to work about once a day, no matter how many variations I tried (eg in airplane mode etc etc).
- Unfortunately the genius (seriously) who developed nueOverclock has gone completely silent on his web site and is not still developing - huge bummer in my opinion. I would make a big donation to anyone who could provide a solid overclocking program, and I bet I'm not the only one.
dwizzy130 said:
Some MSM chips can be overclocked. I have had my TP run at 800Mhz before.
Check THIS out.
Pretty sure it won't work with the X1 but who knows.
dwizzy130
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ring-bearer said:
Vipe'
I feel your pain. Add me to those who are disappointed with the Qualcomm 7200 and will not buy another WinMo phone without a 1 GHz processor. Otherwise, here are some confirmations and other observations:
- The current X1 processor DOES run at 528 MHz as others have mentioned above
- It CAN be overclocked to 768 (or so) with neuOverclock and it's like a sweet dream, but...
- neuOverclock is highly unstable. Most of the time it simply freezes the phone, requiring a reset. For some reason I could only usually get it to work about once a day, no matter how many variations I tried (eg in airplane mode etc etc).
- Unfortunately the genius (seriously) who developed nueOverclock has gone completely silent on his web site and is not still developing - huge bummer in my opinion. I would make a big donation to anyone who could provide a solid overclocking program, and I bet I'm not the only one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you two for the info, I defiantly going to try nueOverclock out.I was actually looking for something in the 600-650mhz but 800mhz is impressive. Edit: well like expected it hung the phone instantly, O well maybe I can get ahold of the developer and incourge him to continue this project
Viper89 said:
thank you two for the info, I defiantly going to try nueOverclock out.I was actually looking for something in the 600-650mhz but 800mhz is impressive. Edit: well like expected it hung the phone instantly, O well maybe I can get ahold of the developer and incourge him to continue this project
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go for it! Tell him I got $20 in my pocket I'm ready to part with!
If someone could really develop a stable overclocking tool, i would pay for that too.
I'd like to buy a HD2, but without a contract(subscription) it costs over 650€ here in Germany.
Even with subscription it costs 220€ + 35€/Month for 2 years.
I can only dream of 1GHz Snapdragon and 4.3 inch screen
PS: I bought my Xperia for 280€ (with 8GB Micro SD) from Ebay in September.
The previous owner paid 720€ (without subscription) at release ...
PPS: Iphone 3GS 32GB is about 850€ without subscription, thats kind of weird
Damn.. I was rlle excited to see some people as frustrated as me with quads performance and were looking for ways to improve it but the fact nueOverclock just freezes is a letdown also. I hope someone can find the creator or another usefull method!! let the search begin!
Hey
i'm really consedoring buying the legend , just wondering since the CPU is 600MHz , will it be good with intensive 3D gaming like Asphalt 5 , Raging Thunder and Deliverace ?
or should i get the Samsung Wave instead ? cause i won't buy a phone that don't game well
Unlike the HTC hero, the legend has a dedicated GPU so will be better for games.
RaiderX303 said:
Unlike the HTC hero, the legend has a dedicated GPU so will be better for games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then why do they say that the legend is only a slight upgrade from the hero in terms of tech?
it runs 3d games smooth, that is the 3d games out now and support tilt control, and that are not a lot of games.
Asphalt, smooth but no tilt control
Raging thunder, smooth for 98%
Google Earth (almost a game) no support doesn´t boot up
simply said, if you want to go for a mobile that supports hardcore 3d games and thatw really important to you in the long term, then get the desire or nexus or iphone. Sure the Legend support and runs the current gen of games perfect. There will come a time in next couple of month when increasing spec demand on a mobile will get the Legend a step back.
But who knows, the Hero getting an upgrade to 2.1 and it performs 100% better then on 1.6 android.
RaiderX303 said:
Unlike the HTC hero, the legend has a dedicated GPU so will be better for games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi mate can u please confirm any source regarding its dedicated GPU?
i am so excited if this is true since i have milestone which runs on a dedicated GPU and it plays asphalt much better than Nexus
RaiderX303 said:
Unlike the HTC hero, the legend has a dedicated GPU so will be better for games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The MSM7200 SoC in the Hero does have a GPU based on ATI Imageon technology. It's not a particularly capable unit, but it is there.
Regards,
Dave
jakontil said:
hi mate can u please confirm any source regarding its dedicated GPU?
i am so excited if this is true since i have milestone which runs on a dedicated GPU and it plays asphalt much better than Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take a look here: qualcomm.com/news/releases/2009/02/12/qualcomm-targets-sub-150-smartphones-versatile-high-performance-chipset-sup
The new MSM7227 chipset features a 600 MHz applications processor with a floating point unit, 320 MHz application DSP, 400 MHz modem processor, hardware-accelerated 3D graphics
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently it supports OpenGL 2.0 whereas the Hero's dedicated GPU only suppors OpenGL 1.0. So it should perform better, but so far there are hardly any Android apps that make use of a dedicated GPU so it's hard to actually say how big the difference is.
Jarune said:
Asphalt, smooth but no tilt control
Raging thunder, smooth for 98%
Google Earth (almost a game) no support doesn´t boot up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried these out on my Legend.
Asphalt does work and so does tilt control. You have to enable accelerometer in the game options. The game seemed incredibly fast though. But maybe that's how it's supposed to play.
Raging Thunder. No problems there. Pretty fun too.
And as you said, google earth doesn't even start up
is it asphalt 5 or 3?
pollokp said:
is it asphalt 5 or 3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose it is 3....
3D Gaming Tests
I have tested some 3d games from the market place. Some of them only in a lite version, but the graphics should be the same... ^^
There is a rating system om smoothness from 1-5
Speedx 3D
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-beepstreet-speedx-wFnn.aspx
Its product specification tells the truth. It delivers stunning 3D accelerometer controlled tunnel experience without any lags.
5
Armageddon Squadron
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-polarbit-asquadron-pmqD.aspx
By stopping all tasks with my advanced task manager it runs quiet well. But not as smooth as Speedx 3D. Looks like 20 FPS. Anyway its playable and its still fun...
4
Raging Thunder 2 Lite
http://www.androlib.com/android.screenshot.app.nwtE-tEiE.u.aspx
Wow! Amazing 3d graphics! But you reckognize that HTC maybe doesn´t use the full CPU capacity of the legend as it could use. Starting a Race it lags and after some seconds it becomes much smoother, but still a bit laggy. 15-20 FPS therefore you can play it,
3.5
Speed Forge 3D Demo
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.mag3dlite-speedforgedemo-qCmp.aspx
Perfect! Super smooth!
5
Magnetic Sports Soccer
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-revo-proto-tiqp.aspx
Runs very smooth with an occasional appearance of lags... Very seldom
4.5
ToonWarz - LITE
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-polarbit-toonwarzlite-pqtB.aspx
Oh my godness! At first I thougt hey it runs not bad. But then the first enemies appeared and the FPS crashed totally! Unplayable³!
1
Kwaak3 - Quake 3 Arena for Android
http://code.google.com/p/kwaak3/
Very nice! After change the lightning from "Lightning maps" to "vertex" and the texture quality to 50% it runs very smooth with only one enemy and quiet okay with 3 enemies...
4.5
For shortness of this post i will only name the game and put a number behind it.
Homerun battle 3D demo- 5
Wave Blazer - 4
Quake 2&1 - 2
Mystique Chapter 1 - 5
My Paper - 5
Lybyrinth - 5
Dice 3D - 5
Friday Escape Lite - 3.5
Armadillo Roll Demo - 5
Vacuum - 5
Raging Thunder 1 - 5
NO ASPHALT 5!!!!!!!!
Upcoming tests after putting money aside
Exzeus Arcade - unfortunately no lite version out there
Deliverace - Omg! trailers look amazing! Hopefully it will be quiet smooth (not available at the moment)
Light Racer 3d - But maybe you can test these games??
Super G Stunt
SpaceTracks
Welcome to Hell 3D (not available at the moment)
Crusade of Destiny (not available at the moment)
AVERAGE RATING: 4,27777
After the devs have some clues to upgrade legends performance it could be nearly 5.
i know this thread is pretty old but i would like to add Dungeon Hunter.
the only game from gameloft that seems to work nearly perfect on the legend (no display resolution problems).
so, without overclocking version 3.11 runs pretty well. some buttons are deformed thats all.
the game doesn´t run perfect, but its playable.
version 3.5.7 (HD) works, too. but the graphics are deformed and youll get errors instead of videos.
Version 3.1.1 = 4.7/5
Version 3.5.7 = 4.2/5
so from all 3d gameloft games just dungen hunter will work well ?
i havent tested all games sofar, i m not that interessted in racing games or football managers and stuff.
but from the games ive tested (assassins creed, sandstorm, nova, hero of sparta and some other i forgot) only dungeon hunter works with the right resolution, nova was basicly playable, too (for example). but playing wouldnt be fun.
Just an aside 'cos I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread, the MSM7227 has the same Adreno 200 GPU that is used in the 1GHz Snapdragon phones like the Desire. Not sure about the clock speed, but I'd imagine it bears at least some relation to the main CPU clock.
Remember though that the Legend has a lot less screen to fill up so the lower fillrate is not so much of an issue, if at all. In fact, when you look at the Neocore benchmarks, the Legend holds up pretty well.
This link* shows Neocore benchmark scores for various devices and although the Legend is not tested, the MyTouch Slide has the same MSM7227 so results are comparable.
A lot of the 3D games for Android look like fairly lazy ports of older iPhone apps (Gameloft, I'm looking at you!) and may not be particularly suited to one Android GPU or another. That's Android fragmentation and an immature market though, eh?
Having said that, if 3D performance is important then something like Galaxy S would surely be the choice handset. The 1+GHz high-resolution devices will be the target devices for any serious game development so you may find that 320x480 and lower handsets are ignored to a great extent. Whether a burgeoning budget market keeps these lower-end device on developers' minds remains to be seen.
Edit to add: The only 3D game I have and play regularly is Carrom 3D (great pool/snooker game) and this is smooth enough even with all the detail turned up. A lot of other apps 'running' in the background will cause occasional lag, but then this is the price we pay for a multi-tasking environment!
* Search for "high end android gpu showdown" to get link at Android&Me (can't link as I'm a new account)
The only game (that I tried) that lags on my legend is caligo chaser
FIFA10 lags too.
the legend isnt a real lower-end device (the wildfire is xD).
if google would optimize android and htc would optimize sense the cpu and gpu would have much more power to for example to play games more fluedly.
if coders would even try to optimize theyr games for legend (and it would be very easy for gameloft for example, htc legend is comparable to the iphone 3gs and most of there games are coded for exactly that device), they would work just perfect.
the lower cpu rate and the lack of ram isnt the real problem: compare the hardware of the phones to a pc 10 years ago, the snapdragon should reach better performance than an pentium 3/1ghz cause of the architectur, the gpu is far away from the power of a geforce 2mx, but still pretty good.
based on the better architecture (n45; arm) the 600mhz msm7227 should be comparable to a 800mhz pentium 3.
this hardware has to work with a smaller screen with a fixed resolution. they could reach so much better performance, graphics etc. they are just too lazy.
(ps: i know that smartphone hardware isnt really comparable to hardware that was in pcs back then, but mhz is mhz)
were2 said:
(ps: i know that smartphone hardware isnt really comparable to hardware that was in pcs back then, but mhz is mhz)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but MHz to MHz rarely mean much, even in the same architecture. For example: The new Qualcomm CPU's, found in the Desire-Z (T-Mobile G2, 800MHz) outperform the 1GHz (1000MHz) CPU found in the Dersire by a long way (these are both ARM). If you look at AMD CPUs vs Intel CPUs then AMD almost always outperform Intel, even on a lower clock-speed. (Both the x86-64 architecture). MHz to MHz only has a real, measurable, bearing when applied to 2 of the same CPUs at to different clock speeds (overclocking)
Having said all that, I do agree with your post. The Legend is capable of so much more, if only people would take the time to code properly. Part of the problem is that people rely on the Dalvik VM (fairly phone-independent), so they rarely have to code on a "per-phone-model" basis. With the iPhone, as it's only ever 1 set of hardware, programmers can easily optimise it for the iPhone. It's much harder to optimise for Android, as it exists on so many phones, each with different specs. But that's the price you pay for choice...
Suprisingly the Legends GPU outperforms the Desire in 3D benchmarks. The CPU is certainly weaker in the Legend, but the comparison below is not quite far because the Legend is still on 2.1 and the desire benchmark was 2.2
Hopefully soon they can be compared like for like...
hxxp://wxw.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&showhide=true&certified_only=1&D1=HTC%20Legend&D2=HTC%20Desire%20(Bravo)&D3=Apple%20iPhone%204
THis is a good read:
hxxp://smartphonebenchmarks.com/forum/index.php?/topic/105-analysis-of-qualcomm-msm7x27-msm7227-msm7627-and-msm7x25-msm7225-msm7625-processors-how-good-are-they/
i have heared that galaxy s Gpu can give 90M triangles/sec is that true as some sources claming that it only gives 28M tri/sec http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR , and the higher one sgx 545 gives 40 m so how the sgx 540 gives 90M
hoss_n2 said:
i have heared that galaxy s Gpu can give 90M triangles/sec is that true as some sources claming that it only gives 28M tri/sec http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR , and the higher one sgx 545 gives 40 m so how the sgx 540 gives 90M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the number listed on wikipedia is 'triangles' per second... It just says polys... So it could be a different shape thats harder to render?
Just my guess.
Besides if the 90M claimed is actually the 28 million then don't worry because the same thing for the iPhone's GPU (the 535) claims around 22m and wiki is listing it as 14.
Aaannnnddd if you're worried about the GPU feel comforted that no 3D benchmarks I've seen have even slowed it down so far and you can see tons of videos on youtube of Galaxy S series phones face rolling every single other Android device in gaming FPS benchmarks. Even if it isn't as amazing as the numbers they claimed there is no doubt that it's the best in the market at the moment, and by quite a lot too!
I'm not going to pretend that I read the comment thoroughly, but I've read a similar question. The person who seemed to know what they were talking about, said that essentially the 90m is a "theoretical number" and that about half of that number is what the phone should? can? will? potentially? do...(skimming, memory and probably comprehension make that a very difficult word to fill in accurately)....but this is how all manufacturers report their graphics capabilities (at least in smartphones, but I'll assume the same holds true for the desktop/laptop graphics cards).
So, while the number is definitely overstated, it's within the standard reporting convention...and relative to other numbers, still accurate (2x as many triangles is 2x as many whether everything gets cut in half of cut by a factor of 3).
*I'll remove my fuzzy language when someone better informed than me responds*
I also read a good article (don't know where it is now sorry) all about how the GPU relies heavily on the memory and bus between them etc and for example there could be a phone running the same GPU as another and have much less performance because they don't use much memory, or use slow memory. Apparently our SGS have done pretty well in all departments.
To untangle the confusion-
Triangles= "polys" (polygons)
The SGS does nothing bear 90M, but on the other side, none of the other phones are doing what the manufacturers are claiming them to do.
Plus, the wikipedia article is FAR from being reliable, it's been edited more than 5 times over the past 2 months, with ever changing results. No official specs are available from imgtec.
One thing i CAN tell you is that the GPU on the SGS is nothing less than a monster.
http://glbenchmark.com/result.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&certified_only=2
I'd like you to take as a refrence the Compal NAZ10 that uses the ever-glorified Nvidia TEGRA 2, and the iPhone 4 (SGX535)
I don't know what trick Samsung used, but there shouldn't be such a massive difference between the 535 and the 540.
Appearently someone over at Sammy did something right.
Extremely right.
Pika007 said:
...
One thing i CAN tell you is that the GPU on the SGS is nothing less than a monster.
http://glbenchmark.com/result.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&certified_only=2
I'd like you to take as a refrence the Compal NAZ10 that uses the ever-glorified Nvidia TEGRA 2, and the iPhone 4 (SGX535)
I don't know what trick Samsung used, but there shouldn't be such a massive difference between the 535 and the 540.
Appearently someone over at Sammy did something right.
Extremely right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, one important fact is the pixelcount in the glbenchmark link you sent. iPhone4 and iPad share the same GPU. The difference in pixels is about 20%, and hence the difference between those two.
Let me make one ugly calculation to map SGS's score to iPhone4's. Pixelcount difference between i4 and SGS is a factor 0.625. That we would make the SGS score 1146 on the iPhone resolution. (or 1723 for i4 on 800*480 resolution). Offcourse there are more factors involved but this the best estimate i can make at the moment.
Difference turns out not te be that great after all.
I knew this argument was going to pop up soon enough, so i'll add one VERY important factor-
Score doesn't decrease proportionally to an increase in resolution.
For example, doubling the resolution won't give half the score. More like 70%~
Try running 3Dmark on your PC in different resolutions, you'll see some interesting results.
Personally, GLmark 1.1 for me is just a very crude example, for general demontstrations. It's not really close to be very accurate.
I'm waiting for GLmark 2.0 that should be a great tool to effectively compare the devices.
Who cares if the phone is powerful when there are no great games that take advantage of the power and when you have an OS that lags all the damn time despite the fact that Quadrant gives me 2100+. Even opening the PHONE app can take up to 10 seconds. This thing can drive me crazy at times.
Pika007 said:
To untangle the confusion-
Triangles= "polys" (polygons)
The SGS does nothing bear 90M, but on the other side, none of the other phones are doing what the manufacturers are claiming them to do.
Plus, the wikipedia article is FAR from being reliable, it's been edited more than 5 times over the past 2 months, with ever changing results. No official specs are available from imgtec.
One thing i CAN tell you is that the GPU on the SGS is nothing less than a monster.
http://glbenchmark.com/result.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&certified_only=2
I'd like you to take as a refrence the Compal NAZ10 that uses the ever-glorified Nvidia TEGRA 2, and the iPhone 4 (SGX535)
I don't know what trick Samsung used, but there shouldn't be such a massive difference between the 535 and the 540.
Appearently someone over at Sammy did something right.
Extremely right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes it is edited more than 5 times but there is an offcial sources says that sgx 454 gives only 40M polygons so hw sgx450 gives 90M i know numbers are not important if there is nothing to use it but i only wanted to know
I think its due to fact that older chip has 2d acceleration too, while 450 is pure 3d and we use cpu for 2d. Thats why its faster.
It is important to note that PowerVR does not do 3D rendering using the traditional 3D polygon based pipeline, like those used in nVidia and ATi cards. It uses the unique tile based rendering engine. This approach is more efficient and uses less memory bandwidth as well as RAW horse power. IIRC, the original PowerVR 3D PC card is a PCI card that can compete head to head with AGP based cards from 3dfx and ATi at that time. Unfortunately, its unique rendering engine does not fit well with Direct3D and OpenGL which favor traditional polygon-based rendering pipelines.
So, the 90M figure could well be the equivelent performance number when using traditional 3D rendering pipeline as compared to Tile-based PowerVR setup.
Power VR does indeed use the traditional 3D polygon based pipeline.
Tile based rendering is in addition, not instead.
Do note that not all games (and actually, far from it) are using TBR properly (if at all).
Read the release notes and press release, it has enough details.
hoss_n2 said:
yes it is edited more than 5 times but there is an offcial sources says that sgx 454 gives only 40M polygons so hw sgx450 gives 90M i know numbers are not important if there is nothing to use it but i only wanted to know
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the given numbers for "official" specs about PowerVR GPU's are for a frequenct of 200mhz.
Those chips can do well above 400mhz, so for example, if an SGX530 does 14M polygons and 500Mpixels per second @200mhz, if you clock it up to 400, it'll do 28Mpolys/1Gpixels.
Though i extremely doubt samsung has the SGX540 clocked at 600mhz in ths SGS...
A pratical and good exaple that shows of the power of the Galaxy S is Gameloft's Real Football 2010 game. The game hasn't got a framelock so it's playable on the Desire and Nexus One. Since pictures tell a thousand words and videos even moreso, I'll provide you this YouTube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0DxP0sk5s0
Pika007 said:
All the given numbers for "official" specs about PowerVR GPU's are for a frequenct of 200mhz.
Those chips can do well above 400mhz, so for example, if an SGX530 does 14M polygons and 500Mpixels per second @200mhz, if you clock it up to 400, it'll do 28Mpolys/1Gpixels.
Though i extremely doubt samsung has the SGX540 clocked at 600mhz in ths SGS...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true however overclocking the GPU to those numbers is silly because the memory & memory bus can't support that much data throughput anyway. I don't even think there is enough to support the amount of the standard clock rate. There is a lot more to consider than just the GPU when it comes to graphics here
You're taking that article you read way too seriously.
Plus, we have no idea what is the bandwidth limit of the galaxy S, we don't know what kind of memory is used, how much of it, at what frequency, etc.
WiseDuck said:
Who cares if the phone is powerful when there are no great games that take advantage of the power and when you have an OS that lags all the damn time despite the fact that Quadrant gives me 2100+. Even opening the PHONE app can take up to 10 seconds. This thing can drive me crazy at times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Re: lag, I want doing bad until I installed one of the fixes. Now I've officially entered crazy-town.
If I would have to guess it has to do with S5PC110 optimizations. When rendering polygons there are many things that contribute aside from the GPU. Think of it maybe similar to hybrid-sli...(but this is just a guess)
but if you want to look at it in more detail, someone posted the official documentation and spec sheet for the S5PC110 a while back..I ddint get a chance to look at it but my guess the clock speeds and other stuff would be there :/
WiseDuck said:
Who cares if the phone is powerful when there are no great games that take advantage of the power and when you have an OS that lags all the damn time despite the fact that Quadrant gives me 2100+. Even opening the PHONE app can take up to 10 seconds. This thing can drive me crazy at times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i dont have any lags, what so ever after lag fix. Something else must be troubleing your phone. Auto memory manager is a need tho if you want to keep it real snappy.
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I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
johcos said:
I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After looking into it for a while, I was focusing on what makes the Nexus One so much better than the other phones. On the chip level, I didn’t see it. Then it dawned on me to look at what Google had to say on the matter. Well, it was there in black and white. In their 20 May 2010 Developer’s Blog entry (http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/05/android-22-and-developers-goodies.html) they say that people could see a 2-5x speed increase. I think it is pointed out in an entry later in the blog dealing with NDK, which I initially missed: “ARM Advanced SIMD (a.k.a. NEON) instruction support The NEON instruction set extension can be used to perform scalar computations on integers and floating points. However, it is an optional CPU feature and will not be supported by all Android ARMv7-A based devices. The NDK includes a tiny library named “cpufeatures” that can be used by native code to test at runtime the features supported by the device’s target CPU.”
So, I guess this means that NEON is the difference. If your phone’s CPU has it and it’s enabled for JIT, you can expect higher Linpack numbers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.greenecomputing.com/2010...ack-scores-so-mucher-higher-than-on-my-phone/
Now stop making topics like this.
the difference you notice is software related
If you want a real test, run a hd video on both phones, or a psx emulator and see if the nexus one is 5x faster... it is the same if not slower then the sgs
Well, SGS got hardware h264 decoding acceleration. Also, maybe you forget, but:
he Hummingbird comes with 32KB each of data and instruction caches, an L2 cache, the size of which can be customized, and an ARM® NEON™ multi-media extension.
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SAMSUNG and Intrinsity Jointly Develop the World's Fastest ARM® Cortex™-A8 Processor Based Mobile Core in 45 Nanometer Low Power Process
Advanced SIMD (NEON)
The Advanced SIMD extension, marketed as NEON technology, is a combined 64- and 128-bit single instruction multiple data (SIMD) instruction set that provides standardized acceleration for media and signal processing applications. NEON can execute MP3 audio decoding on CPUs running at 10 MHz and can run the GSM AMR (Adaptive Multi-Rate) speech codec at no more than 13 MHz. It features a comprehensive instruction set, separate register files and independent execution hardware. NEON supports 8-, 16-, 32- and 64-bit integer and single-precision (32-bit) floating-point data and operates in SIMD operations for handling audio and video processing as well as graphics and gaming processing. In NEON, the SIMD supports up to 16 operations at the same time. The NEON hardware shares the same floating-point registers as used in VFP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
source: wiki
This means Hummingbirds are equipped with NEON. Why its not so effective/used in Quadrant/Linpack? My guess they (these benchmarks) are not compiled/optimised for Hummingbirds, just for Snapdragons.
I came from owning an iPhone and playing lots of games on it. I bought the SGS purely for the gaming performance of the Hummingbird processor.
Having seen the difference in game quality between the HTC Desire and the SGS, I know I made the right decision. Benchmarks don't mean anything.
As long as the device can run apps, games, multimedia smoothly, I dont care much about those benchmarkers, maybe they were designed and/or optimized for snapdragon prior to hummingbird.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
i bet you anything he actually doesn't have a sgs...lol
jealousy maybe just a troll, ignore
In terms of overall smoothness (everything, not just games) the SGS is vastly superior to any other android phone I've seen (Desire included).
Darkimmortal said:
everything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? You have to go all out and use the word "everything" when the phone can get major lockups?
"most things" sounds like a more reasonable and believable choice of words...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
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android53 said:
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
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Click to collapse
this. i played king of fighters on my hd2 and it was laggy as hell
smooth as butter on my galaxy s
to be honest. the day psx4droid use gpu. galaxy owners are in heaven.
Its unlikely it ever will though, even modern pc emulators barely use the gpu, only for anti aliasing
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johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
Snapdragon/Hummingbird scores in glbenchmark (nexus one/galaxy s):
integer: 20661/27624
float: 11173/7968
I guess glbenchmark uses native C code (hopefully with armv7 optimization), so the JIT compiler has no effect. From the scores it seems that the floating point unit in Snapdragon is faster - but most of the time it is not used (except video & games).
Anyway, a benchmark to measure the same algorithm in both native & java code with scalar & vector instructions would be great...
t1mman said:
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he's not whining, well, not in the first place and i don't see any harm on that i think he's trying to UNDERSTAND reasons behind numbers and daily use with help of other people, so am i. if i had to sell phones for every problem i encounter i will problaby be without (smart)phone at this time
i don't care about benchmarks, but if you think that sgs is smoother than hd2 xda optimized (with wm 6.5 or android 2.2) you obviously never owned an hd2 i'm not talking about games, like johcos says galaxy s performance is not questionable. but android is not all about game. anyway, i don't think hardware is the problem here, sure sgs is superior in many aspects, we know that, regardless benchmarks (even if it seems here that only benchmarks where sgs win are trustworthy, others are not good, not optimized, not realistic, meaningless for real life performance etc.). with a little help from samsung and this community sgs will soon outperform (in real usage) all snapdragon phones. i hope
...when average men talk about the high tech w/o knowledge, boo
ll_l_x_l_ll said:
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly couldn't agree anymore, even with all the problems the SGS has. The screen+hardware combination is just too overwhelming for me to swap the phone for something else.
hey all
i thought id share with you for those who would be interested in my first hands on experience with the samsung galaxy s2
well i went round my friends house after work, as he was waiting for one to be delivered as an upgrade, anyway he rang me to say that it was here,
so i thought id go up and have alook.
the first thing i did when he gave it me was.... drop it lol
he passed it me and it slipped right through my fingers it was so thin
it bounced on his hard laminated floor a few times but he just laughed.
it is a nice device, very slim altho abit wider than the play
the brightness on the screen was great
and it was very very snappy scrolling across homescreens and loading up apps,
exploring the memory with astro. i was impressed
and alot lighter than the play aswell
the quadrant scores were off the chart getting something like 3k+
linpack he was getting 48
i did notice that when running quadrant some of the textures were just plain solid shapes no actual textures. i thought maybe thats got something to do with that mali chipset that i heard didnt support certain texture compression but anyway.
i told him to fire up fpse to see what that ran like with the new fpse.
mines runs great hovering around at around 45-50fps
on most games. until i put on screen filtering
and that has a massive impact on fps it drops to around
27-30fps and games become unplayable even with frame skip on max
enhanced 3d rendering has little effect on fps so i keep that on
anyway i thought that the galaxy s 2 with the 1.2 dualcore and the mali 400mp
would power along when putting screen filtering on.
so i tried tekken 3 loaded it up. ran it but without screen filtering on
and it was buttery smooth stuck at 60fps.
then i turned on screen filtering and it dropped to 30/35fps
and was the same unplayable state mine was.
i was gob smacked surely a dualcore would best this???
my mate said, so looks like your not missing much gaming wise then compared to mine. i just smiled ,he hasnt got his for gaming mind.
i dont know if there was summat goin on, or a imcompatability with fpse
but it was an interesting discovery. i tried afew other games and they all were the same.
so as far as emulation and fpse goes were not getting left behind because we have no dualcore cpu.
Someone please correct me here if im wrong but what your saying is that a dual core cpu is the same speed as a single core cpu on single core programming, well yes that is going to be the obvous result, yes different single core speeds will have various results.
But unless a program has been coded for use with more than one processor then it will not make use of a dual core processor.
for example
a single core processor can work out
x = 5
y = ?
x * y = 15
this equation would take as much time on a single core processor as it would a dual core processor as you are waiting for the result of 15/x to work out what y is.
so until FPSE is programmed to allocate for dual core processors you will end up with the same speed of use, or very similar.
I have both, well sort off, play dead gone for repairing with sony, so bought S2 in the mean time, to tell you, S2 with 1gb RAM and Dual core Processor which can be overclocked to stable 1.66 ghz is way fast as compared to play, trust me, graphic wise both have 16m colors, but s2 with super amoled does it somehow better...i miss playing games the play way...thats all...I guess S2 is the world's fastest stable phone for now.....atleast I have both so know it...
shotgunfool said:
Someone please correct me here if im wrong but what your saying is that a dual core cpu is the same speed as a single core cpu on single core programming, well yes that is going to be the obvous result, yes different single core speeds will have various results.
But unless a program has been coded for use with more than one processor then it will not make use of a dual core processor.
for example
a single core processor can work out
x = 5
y = ?
x * y = 15
this equation would take as much time on a single core processor as it would a dual core processor as you are waiting for the result of 15/x to work out what y is.
so until FPSE is programmed to allocate for dual core processors you will end up with the same speed of use, or very similar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your forgetting about the more onboard ram the s2 has plus it has the mali 400mp Gpu
crispyduckling said:
your forgetting about the more onboard ram the s2 has plus it has the mali 400mp Gpu
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Click to collapse
The tegra2 bests that GPU in every possible way.
Also doesn't the SGS II have an FPS limit.
Also Exynos as a whole is not all that more powerful than tegra2 I mean the reason the SGS II does so well on benchmarks is because of android 2.3 look at the Atrix 2.3 leak its benchmarks are off the charts as well.
And my last point. There is no need for all this power if it is not going to be used. I mean games need that type of power and games are best played with a gamepad. Why sony ericsson didn't put a tegra in the play is beyond me.
I tried tekken on it, could see puches coming at me my thumbb was always in the way. I told the owner to uninstall as gaming on something like that was a joke. He didnt agree until he tried my play.
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RacecarBMW said:
The tegra2 bests that GPU in every possible way.
Also doesn't the SGS II have an FPS limit.
Also Exynos as a whole is not all that more powerful than tegra2 I mean the reason the SGS II does so well on benchmarks is because of android 2.3 look at the Atrix 2.3 leak its benchmarks are off the charts as well.
And my last point. There is no need for all this power if it is not going to be used. I mean games need that type of power and games are best played with a gamepad. Why sony ericsson didn't put a tegra in the play is beyond me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea I tried to play tekken and I just couldn't on the touch screen
IM so glad I have a play
its a great phone tho the gs2
crispyduckling said:
yea I tried to play tekken and I just couldn't on the touch screen
IM so glad I have a play
its a great phone tho the gs2
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Click to collapse
Reason I switched too.
Sent from my R800i using XDA App
Touchscreens suck for gaming.
No amount of processing power in the World will overcome this fact.