Database Users

I am done with Sense

Sense UI is slow on first-generation Android phones, and all the attempts to make it fast only result in a flaky, weird experience.
The framework and everything else is closed-source, what do you expect?
All we can do is extract the APKs and modify images and maybe tweak the AndroidManifest.xml or other xml files. Even if we can extract the bytecode (if that's what it's called for the DalvikVM), it still isn't as open as an AOSP build.
The only reason I flashed Rosie/Sense UI ROMs were to get a nice homescreen (which was slow) with nice widgets and a browser with Flash (that was slow and incompatible but still useful for simple stuff).
I would have fun with the ROM for a while, but when I needed to be productive, like Google something quickly or add a note in AK Notepad, it was painfully slow.
Android 2.2 Froyo is amazing. It has many features, the most important IMO being a reliable JIT compiler for the DalvikVM, and Flash 10.1 coming to the browser OFFICIALLY!
When the source for Android 2.2 is released and Cyanogen makes a release for the G1/Dream, I'm stuck on that until I get a super Android phone with a full QWERTY like the G1

Sense is also UGLY.
As for this flash thing... its not going to work on your phone. Compiled for a different CPU.
Nothing lost there though, flash is terrible trash that the world would be MUCH better off withOUT.

lbcoder said:
Sense is also UGLY.
As for this flash thing... its not going to work on your phone. Compiled for a different CPU.
Nothing lost there though, flash is terrible trash that the world would be MUCH better off withOUT.
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Did Flash murder you in a previous life?
It seems 50% of your posts here are about how Flash is the end of civilization?

Flash is a dreadful battery/CPU hog, and I suspect the 'net, as Apple claim, would be better off without it.
That said, given the propensity of web designers to use nonstandard, bloated, un-necessary flash widgets that break navigation everywhere in their pages, making them utterly useless to those with old machines, accessibility needs/disabilities, etc I guess it's probably better to have it than not. Flash 10.1 under FroYo is only marginally quirky on my Desire. Getting there!
Sense, OTOH, I miss... LauncherPro just isn't as pretty. But I think on older hardware like the G1, I'd agree with the OP. It's not necessary to get the most out of Android and if it's causing slowdowns, it's a bit counter-intuitive to the actual purpose of a mobile phone.

Azurael said:
That said, given the propensity of web designers to use nonstandard, bloated, un-necessary flash widgets that break navigation everywhere in their pages, making them utterly useless to those with old machines, accessibility needs/disabilities, etc I guess it's probably better to have it than not. Flash 10.1 under FroYo is only marginally quirky on my Desire. Getting there!
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How about just not visiting those websites? Most even halfway marginal websites will provide "if (no flash) then show these links instead", of the rest, you can certainly get the information somewhere else, or failing that, you probably don't want it anyway (the developer is obviously retarded...)
The big important thing to note is that the web is changing. There is MUCH MUCH MUCH less flash around than there was 10 years ago. In fact, I can't think of a single site that actually still *requires* it (except maybe a few sites hosting videos of retards doing stupid crap). I can think of a few that have flash ads -- in these cases, NOT having flash dramatically improves your experience.

Different architectures
I remember a while back that there was a bug in Sense on the Hero where the package name (com.google.maps) would be displayed instead of the actual application name (Maps).
HTC acknowledged the problem and fixed it, but that's the problem with Sense; if it were open-source, someone (probably on xda) would release a tiny patch to fix the problem. Like if Google made the same mistake in the default Launcher, it would be fixed by the devs online quickly.
And now about Flash: What!? Wasn't it built for ARM? Or do the N1 and other superphones use a slightly different architecture? This is weird...
Another problem is that there are netbooks and all sorts of smartphones with Android.
Most netbooks will have x86 processors (Intel, AMD) and though most smartphones are expected to use ARM, some might use a different architecture like MIPS, or even x86 in the future.
Normal Android applications that are made with Java are fine, but how about all the apps with native binaries built with the Android NDK?
What Google should do is implement a way to compile the same program to all popular architectures, and keep the different binaries in the APK.
Apple did something similar in Mac OS X when they switched from PowerPC to Intel... application files in Mac OS X are basically a package that holds basic information, icons, and the binaries, which make this file format similar to Android APKs, except that when someone compiles their program for OS X, both PowerPC and Intel binaries are compiled and stored in the application.
If Google does this for Android, there will be no problem with different architectures (like with Flash not being able to run on the G1)

PSP_Hacker said:
I remember a while back that there was a bug in Sense on the Hero where the package name (com.google.maps) would be displayed instead of the actual application name (Maps).
HTC acknowledged the problem and fixed it, but that's the problem with Sense; if it were open-source, someone (probably on xda) would release a tiny patch to fix the problem. Like if Google made the same mistake in the default Launcher, it would be fixed by the devs online quickly.
And now about Flash: What!? Wasn't it built for ARM? Or do the N1 and other superphones use a slightly different architecture? This is weird...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just like i686 binaries won't run on an i486 CPU, ARM7 binaries won't run on an ARM5 CPU. There are architectural changes that break compatibility of new binaries on old hardware.
Another problem is that there are netbooks and all sorts of smartphones with Android.
Most netbooks will have x86 processors (Intel, AMD) and though most smartphones are expected to use ARM, some might use a different architecture like MIPS, or even x86 in the future.
Normal Android applications that are made with Java are fine, but how about all the apps with native binaries built with the Android NDK?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all native applications are built with the NDK. Flash is a big example -- it has a lot of HAND WRITTEN ASSEMBLY CODE. There is NO automatic way to generate hand written assembly code. Each additional platform you support MUST have its own manually written code.
What Google should do is implement a way to compile the same program to all popular architectures, and keep the different binaries in the APK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html
Might not be a bad idea to read up on the ndk.
The applicable line is "You can also build for both architectures at the same time and have everything stored in the final .apk". Seems that they already thought of this
*** but it isn't applicable to flash since flash is partially hand-written. They could easily include the various binaries within a single APK file, but that won't happen unless they actually build the arm5 binary, which is extremely unlikely.
If Google does this for Android, there will be no problem with different architectures (like with Flash not being able to run on the G1)
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Click to collapse
For reasons mentioned above, this doesn't help.

[Q] Port Flash Player 10.1/10.2 to ARMv6?

Can somebody port (or try to) the flash player to the armv6 processor?
It sucks be without flash... =(

cannot agree more!

If its possible on over clocked processors then please do that
Like if I have 1ghz above out will be enough for flash and phone too will be smooth enough

Not possible at all, the same thing goes on with Flash on iPhone 2G, 3G, iPod touch 1G and 2G. All those devices have ARM6 CPU's and it just isn't possible to backport it like that. If it was, it would have happened years ago.

GazaIan said:
Not possible at all, the same thing goes on with Flash on iPhone 2G, 3G, iPod touch 1G and 2G. All those devices have ARM6 CPU's and it just isn't possible to backport it like that. If it was, it would have happened years ago.
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but I've heard that iphone has some similar app for flash... something like "frash" maybe

brunoshady said:
but I've heard that iphone has some similar app for flash... something like "frash" maybe
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Click to collapse
Frash also uses libflashplayer.so from the android build which is based on ARMv7 or later.
@everyone:
However, IT IS POSSIBLE to port Flash to ARMv6. However, it would be a lot of work and it will be really buggy and slow. A better alternative would be to encourage the development of GNASH which already works on ARM but doesn't have a browser plugin yet.
GNASH is also buggy but we do have the source. As for Flash, it has to be reverse engineered. Plus, Adobe itself is convinced that Flash is going to die in lieu of HTML5 and so they have started experimenting Flash to HTML5 conversion tools. Such a tool has already been released but sadly it works only with simple banners and not with games and such.

nibras_reeza said:
Frash also uses libflashplayer.so from the android build which is based on ARMv7 or later.
@everyone:
However, IT IS POSSIBLE to port Flash to ARMv6. However, it would be a lot of work and it will be really buggy and slow. A better alternative would be to encourage the development of GNASH which already works on ARM but doesn't have a browser plugin yet.
GNASH is also buggy but we do have the source. As for Flash, it has to be reverse engineered. Plus, Adobe itself is convinced that Flash is going to die in lieu of HTML5 and so they have started experimenting Flash to HTML5 conversion tools. Such a tool has already been released but sadly it works only with simple banners and not with games and such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what is GNASH?

brunoshady said:
what is GNASH?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Open source Flash player.
http://www.gnu.org/s/gnash/

Check this out
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1155538

Lapdock owners and WebTop users, help needed!

hey guys, i am coming to the general discussion board with something relatively new to me. this week i will be receiving my Atrix back from motorola (dead space on the screen, again) and the LapDock i ordered from amazon (total steal at $85!) now i've never owned a lapdock before but i did use the HDMI hack to use the webtop environment with my phone as a touchpad. i've been mostly on the CM9 scene until now but that is an exponentially far way off. my question is; what ROM do y'all suggest that has LapDock functionality and is your favorite?

Nottachtrix 1.3.1 is great, with full webtop functionality (or webtop2SD) if you please. I have been happy with CM9 builds (AOKP in particular) that have tablet functionality baked in. Also I have been using Ubuntu to Android Installer App on all of the listed builds, and have been relatively happy with that (if using full linux is important to you). However, with the last option, using the VNC client seems to come at the expense of graphical sharpness.

Hey,
I personally suggest Nottachtrix, it is by far the best blur ROM out there.
For the webtop you have 2 choices:
Ubuntu - Webtop2SD
Gentoo - ADB
Their both good. Read up on each of them to see what you like... Sorry I don't have the links right now...

Definitely Nottachtrix.
Here are the 4 Webtop mods available right now.
Full Linux (Debian) Inside Webtop
Eternity Project Gentoo (dated)
Webtop2SD
GenTop2
I am currently on GenTop2 but am also going to give Debian Inside Webtop a go now that the links are back up. There will be upcoming improvements with it also.

tobnddl said:
Nottachtrix 1.3.1 is great, with full webtop functionality (or webtop2SD) if you please. I have been happy with CM9 builds (AOKP in particular) that have tablet functionality baked in. Also I have been using Ubuntu to Android Installer App on all of the listed builds, and have been relatively happy with that (if using full linux is important to you). However, with the last option, using the VNC client seems to come at the expense of graphical sharpness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello I've just order myself an atrix & lapdock... I'm super excited!
I currently have a Xperia play on aokp and definitely can't go back to gingerbread, ics has spoiled me.
I think using chrootLinux/vncing to a server via the tabletui would be the best option for me.
Just hoping you can clarify what you mean by graphical sharpness. -- not contesting your opinion or anything just curious.

+1 on Nottachtrix 1.31 as the best Blur ROM to stay with the WebTop type apps.
Just spent the last 4 hours letting the GenTop2 system install that others have linked to. Takes the place of the Motorola WebTop.
Looks pretty good so far!

thank you guys, this is really helpful! i am more familiar with
Ubuntu than any other distro and i was a user of the Android Ubuntu installer via VNC method, is WebTop2SD any better in terms of speed and size taken up?

Can you use any of those webtop options with CM9?

jiggytom said:
Can you use any of those webtop options with CM9?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, cm9 does not work with any webtop
out of curiousity, anyone who has tried a few of these, which one is the fastest from your experience? I would imagine it would be gentop, what is the second fastest? webtop2sd?

Bluemotion said:
Hello I've just order myself an atrix & lapdock... I'm super excited!
I currently have a Xperia play on aokp and definitely can't go back to gingerbread, ics has spoiled me.
I think using chrootLinux/vncing to a server via the tabletui would be the best option for me.
Just hoping you can clarify what you mean by graphical sharpness. -- not contesting your opinion or anything just curious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am far from an expert on this, so bear with me. Essentially what you are doing with the VNC / Ubuntu install solution is logging into a "remote" linux session that happens to be taking place on your phone. The VNC client uses a graphical representation of your screen (a picture essentially) that updates regularly, but introduces a bit of lag to the experience. Further compounding this is the fact that the screen is mirrored from "phone-size" to "lapdock-size" so there is some pixelation introduced. As such, it's not the prettiest solution, but it is very functional for openoffice type tasks.
Oh, one other thing, the Ubuntu on Linux does not require a gigantic reinstall (ala Webtop2SD) when you switch roms. It is very simple, assuming you do not format the drive that holds the system files.
As an aside, if you use the "Ubuntu on Android" installer, I have had bad luck with the VNC client that the dev recommends (mouse problems). After speaking with him, I downloaded Pocketcloud (free from the Play Store), which works much better, though still suffers from the stuff I discussed above.

How fast HTML5 app can be?

Dear All,
Since Firefox OS will be HTML5 based, is this likely a failure? Take a look at Facebook failure when they create their android app using HTML5 and they decided will abandon this and goes native.
They just said HTML5 isn't fast yet although Android use Webkit (which faster than Gecko anyway).
I wonder how Firefox OS can handled complicated and bulky app like we already seen in playstore today.
Thanks

HTML5 can be faster
dels07 said:
Dear All,
Since Firefox OS will be HTML5 based, is this likely a failure? Take a look at Facebook failure when they create their android app using HTML5 and they decided will abandon this and goes native.
They just said HTML5 isn't fast yet although Android use Webkit (which faster than Gecko anyway).
I wonder how Firefox OS can handled complicated and bulky app like we already seen in playstore today.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regarding that, you should check out sencha's response to facebook. They built a HTML5 app, fastbook [ google it please, not allowed to post outside links .... yet ] that they say is faster and more feature rich than the native ones Facebook built after ditching HTML5.
HTML5 is not necessarily slower than native an especially since FirefoxOS will be doing away with the Dalvik Virtual Machine needed for android, it should have faster perfomance and fewer requirements.
The only way we can tell for sure is by running them and comparing so let FirefoxOS come out then do the comparison and pick whatever suits you

Faster than light

The point for FirefoxOS and Mozilla, it's that it implements WebApis that works with the Hardware of the devices that has installed FirefoxOS. All the WebApis are approved by the W3C, so don't worry about what it's better between native o web, the thing is how you develop your Apps, and how you implement the power of Gecko. Do you know how much frameworks and ways to make Web apps there are?

[Q] How is Sailfish OS lagless?

I am running Sailfish OS on my Nexus 7 and when I use Android there is some lag. But when I use Sailfish there isn't. I know with ios they have rendering performance over apps and on Android its vice versa. Is sailfish doing the same?

DavidLattimerii said:
I am running Sailfish OS on my Nexus 7 and when I use Android there is some lag. But when I use Sailfish there isn't. I know with ios they have rendering performance over apps and on Android its vice versa. Is sailfish doing the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't answer you're question technically. But if you compare the specs of an android device and the jolla phone you'll see there is a huge difference. The sailfishos work on much lower hardware quite flawlessy and is not so ressource hungry than android.

It runs very smooth until it's memory is free... if you use a bit much of memory it start sometimes to lag a lot. It's a low memory problem around that the Jolla crew it's working, the next update (january 2015) hopefully will fix it.

DavidLattimerii said:
I am running Sailfish OS on my Nexus 7 and when I use Android there is some lag. But when I use Sailfish there isn't. I know with ios they have rendering performance over apps and on Android its vice versa. Is sailfish doing the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It clearly depends on your device(not exactly, the GPU drivers)
Some shaders can be more or less efficient depending on HW and the driver(not much for Sailfish as it uses LibHYBRIS)

You should note, that Sailfish OS does not run Java Virtual Machine. All apps are compiled to machine code. This makes Sailfish bleeding fast.

enedil said:
You should note, that Sailfish OS does not run Java Virtual Machine. All apps are compiled to machine code. This makes Sailfish bleeding fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It runs the Dalvik or ART JVM for Android compatibility.

Only if you run Android apps!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

enedil said:
Only if you run Android apps!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You have to explicitly run it without Android support...
(if it ran it on demand, launch times would be terrible)