Hi, What do we know about the ati graphics chip in the x1. i know it gas 128mb of ram but what can it do in terms of graphical power?
I think he has a gpu (ati infineon) but he don't had his driver as others HTC...
yeah, and are there any graphic demos, which show the power of the 3d accelerator? is tf3d accelerated?
Once and for all. Diamond/Pro/HD/X1 all have 3d drivers! It's just that not every application is using it and the performance isn't groundbreaking. But they have those drivers!!
any 2d drivers? Thats really the only thing important to me. If i just wanted 3d drivers I would stick with my kaiser.
The Touch HD uses Qualcomm MSM7200A cpu, same as sony-erricson Xperia X1, but X1 uses GPU while Touch HD is without. The iPhone uses faster CPU (underclocked) but allso has a GPU unit. This makes the Touch HD the worst phone in this range concerning the hardware for anything concerning graphics (like games)
Am i correct?
No you are not.
Diamond, Pro, HD, X1 are all the same.
There is an interesting thread discussing this in massive detail located Here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442712
I'm currently using a cooked ROM (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=465637) that has better hardware acceleration baked in... Example I can reset device and run VR similation without having to reload 3d hardware drivers described in first link)...
Over time I expect we will see more fine tuning like this.
MAK11 said:
No you are not.
Diamond, Pro, HD, X1 are all the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, i was confused as X1 specification had a GPU unit specified separately while HTC devices dont mention anything about it. The MSM7200A has integrated GPU, so basically it is really the same. Ok... i am glad i am wrong
sorry for duplicate reply.. keep getting error 500 internal server error
actually the diamond, pro & hd use the 7201a processor. the older polaris (touch cruise) and kaiser uses the 7200
Hey
i'm really consedoring buying the legend , just wondering since the CPU is 600MHz , will it be good with intensive 3D gaming like Asphalt 5 , Raging Thunder and Deliverace ?
or should i get the Samsung Wave instead ? cause i won't buy a phone that don't game well
Unlike the HTC hero, the legend has a dedicated GPU so will be better for games.
RaiderX303 said:
Unlike the HTC hero, the legend has a dedicated GPU so will be better for games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then why do they say that the legend is only a slight upgrade from the hero in terms of tech?
it runs 3d games smooth, that is the 3d games out now and support tilt control, and that are not a lot of games.
Asphalt, smooth but no tilt control
Raging thunder, smooth for 98%
Google Earth (almost a game) no support doesn´t boot up
simply said, if you want to go for a mobile that supports hardcore 3d games and thatw really important to you in the long term, then get the desire or nexus or iphone. Sure the Legend support and runs the current gen of games perfect. There will come a time in next couple of month when increasing spec demand on a mobile will get the Legend a step back.
But who knows, the Hero getting an upgrade to 2.1 and it performs 100% better then on 1.6 android.
RaiderX303 said:
Unlike the HTC hero, the legend has a dedicated GPU so will be better for games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi mate can u please confirm any source regarding its dedicated GPU?
i am so excited if this is true since i have milestone which runs on a dedicated GPU and it plays asphalt much better than Nexus
RaiderX303 said:
Unlike the HTC hero, the legend has a dedicated GPU so will be better for games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The MSM7200 SoC in the Hero does have a GPU based on ATI Imageon technology. It's not a particularly capable unit, but it is there.
Regards,
Dave
jakontil said:
hi mate can u please confirm any source regarding its dedicated GPU?
i am so excited if this is true since i have milestone which runs on a dedicated GPU and it plays asphalt much better than Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take a look here: qualcomm.com/news/releases/2009/02/12/qualcomm-targets-sub-150-smartphones-versatile-high-performance-chipset-sup
The new MSM7227 chipset features a 600 MHz applications processor with a floating point unit, 320 MHz application DSP, 400 MHz modem processor, hardware-accelerated 3D graphics
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently it supports OpenGL 2.0 whereas the Hero's dedicated GPU only suppors OpenGL 1.0. So it should perform better, but so far there are hardly any Android apps that make use of a dedicated GPU so it's hard to actually say how big the difference is.
Jarune said:
Asphalt, smooth but no tilt control
Raging thunder, smooth for 98%
Google Earth (almost a game) no support doesn´t boot up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried these out on my Legend.
Asphalt does work and so does tilt control. You have to enable accelerometer in the game options. The game seemed incredibly fast though. But maybe that's how it's supposed to play.
Raging Thunder. No problems there. Pretty fun too.
And as you said, google earth doesn't even start up
is it asphalt 5 or 3?
pollokp said:
is it asphalt 5 or 3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose it is 3....
3D Gaming Tests
I have tested some 3d games from the market place. Some of them only in a lite version, but the graphics should be the same... ^^
There is a rating system om smoothness from 1-5
Speedx 3D
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-beepstreet-speedx-wFnn.aspx
Its product specification tells the truth. It delivers stunning 3D accelerometer controlled tunnel experience without any lags.
5
Armageddon Squadron
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-polarbit-asquadron-pmqD.aspx
By stopping all tasks with my advanced task manager it runs quiet well. But not as smooth as Speedx 3D. Looks like 20 FPS. Anyway its playable and its still fun...
4
Raging Thunder 2 Lite
http://www.androlib.com/android.screenshot.app.nwtE-tEiE.u.aspx
Wow! Amazing 3d graphics! But you reckognize that HTC maybe doesn´t use the full CPU capacity of the legend as it could use. Starting a Race it lags and after some seconds it becomes much smoother, but still a bit laggy. 15-20 FPS therefore you can play it,
3.5
Speed Forge 3D Demo
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.mag3dlite-speedforgedemo-qCmp.aspx
Perfect! Super smooth!
5
Magnetic Sports Soccer
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-revo-proto-tiqp.aspx
Runs very smooth with an occasional appearance of lags... Very seldom
4.5
ToonWarz - LITE
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-polarbit-toonwarzlite-pqtB.aspx
Oh my godness! At first I thougt hey it runs not bad. But then the first enemies appeared and the FPS crashed totally! Unplayable³!
1
Kwaak3 - Quake 3 Arena for Android
http://code.google.com/p/kwaak3/
Very nice! After change the lightning from "Lightning maps" to "vertex" and the texture quality to 50% it runs very smooth with only one enemy and quiet okay with 3 enemies...
4.5
For shortness of this post i will only name the game and put a number behind it.
Homerun battle 3D demo- 5
Wave Blazer - 4
Quake 2&1 - 2
Mystique Chapter 1 - 5
My Paper - 5
Lybyrinth - 5
Dice 3D - 5
Friday Escape Lite - 3.5
Armadillo Roll Demo - 5
Vacuum - 5
Raging Thunder 1 - 5
NO ASPHALT 5!!!!!!!!
Upcoming tests after putting money aside
Exzeus Arcade - unfortunately no lite version out there
Deliverace - Omg! trailers look amazing! Hopefully it will be quiet smooth (not available at the moment)
Light Racer 3d - But maybe you can test these games??
Super G Stunt
SpaceTracks
Welcome to Hell 3D (not available at the moment)
Crusade of Destiny (not available at the moment)
AVERAGE RATING: 4,27777
After the devs have some clues to upgrade legends performance it could be nearly 5.
i know this thread is pretty old but i would like to add Dungeon Hunter.
the only game from gameloft that seems to work nearly perfect on the legend (no display resolution problems).
so, without overclocking version 3.11 runs pretty well. some buttons are deformed thats all.
the game doesn´t run perfect, but its playable.
version 3.5.7 (HD) works, too. but the graphics are deformed and youll get errors instead of videos.
Version 3.1.1 = 4.7/5
Version 3.5.7 = 4.2/5
so from all 3d gameloft games just dungen hunter will work well ?
i havent tested all games sofar, i m not that interessted in racing games or football managers and stuff.
but from the games ive tested (assassins creed, sandstorm, nova, hero of sparta and some other i forgot) only dungeon hunter works with the right resolution, nova was basicly playable, too (for example). but playing wouldnt be fun.
Just an aside 'cos I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread, the MSM7227 has the same Adreno 200 GPU that is used in the 1GHz Snapdragon phones like the Desire. Not sure about the clock speed, but I'd imagine it bears at least some relation to the main CPU clock.
Remember though that the Legend has a lot less screen to fill up so the lower fillrate is not so much of an issue, if at all. In fact, when you look at the Neocore benchmarks, the Legend holds up pretty well.
This link* shows Neocore benchmark scores for various devices and although the Legend is not tested, the MyTouch Slide has the same MSM7227 so results are comparable.
A lot of the 3D games for Android look like fairly lazy ports of older iPhone apps (Gameloft, I'm looking at you!) and may not be particularly suited to one Android GPU or another. That's Android fragmentation and an immature market though, eh?
Having said that, if 3D performance is important then something like Galaxy S would surely be the choice handset. The 1+GHz high-resolution devices will be the target devices for any serious game development so you may find that 320x480 and lower handsets are ignored to a great extent. Whether a burgeoning budget market keeps these lower-end device on developers' minds remains to be seen.
Edit to add: The only 3D game I have and play regularly is Carrom 3D (great pool/snooker game) and this is smooth enough even with all the detail turned up. A lot of other apps 'running' in the background will cause occasional lag, but then this is the price we pay for a multi-tasking environment!
* Search for "high end android gpu showdown" to get link at Android&Me (can't link as I'm a new account)
The only game (that I tried) that lags on my legend is caligo chaser
FIFA10 lags too.
the legend isnt a real lower-end device (the wildfire is xD).
if google would optimize android and htc would optimize sense the cpu and gpu would have much more power to for example to play games more fluedly.
if coders would even try to optimize theyr games for legend (and it would be very easy for gameloft for example, htc legend is comparable to the iphone 3gs and most of there games are coded for exactly that device), they would work just perfect.
the lower cpu rate and the lack of ram isnt the real problem: compare the hardware of the phones to a pc 10 years ago, the snapdragon should reach better performance than an pentium 3/1ghz cause of the architectur, the gpu is far away from the power of a geforce 2mx, but still pretty good.
based on the better architecture (n45; arm) the 600mhz msm7227 should be comparable to a 800mhz pentium 3.
this hardware has to work with a smaller screen with a fixed resolution. they could reach so much better performance, graphics etc. they are just too lazy.
(ps: i know that smartphone hardware isnt really comparable to hardware that was in pcs back then, but mhz is mhz)
were2 said:
(ps: i know that smartphone hardware isnt really comparable to hardware that was in pcs back then, but mhz is mhz)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but MHz to MHz rarely mean much, even in the same architecture. For example: The new Qualcomm CPU's, found in the Desire-Z (T-Mobile G2, 800MHz) outperform the 1GHz (1000MHz) CPU found in the Dersire by a long way (these are both ARM). If you look at AMD CPUs vs Intel CPUs then AMD almost always outperform Intel, even on a lower clock-speed. (Both the x86-64 architecture). MHz to MHz only has a real, measurable, bearing when applied to 2 of the same CPUs at to different clock speeds (overclocking)
Having said all that, I do agree with your post. The Legend is capable of so much more, if only people would take the time to code properly. Part of the problem is that people rely on the Dalvik VM (fairly phone-independent), so they rarely have to code on a "per-phone-model" basis. With the iPhone, as it's only ever 1 set of hardware, programmers can easily optimise it for the iPhone. It's much harder to optimise for Android, as it exists on so many phones, each with different specs. But that's the price you pay for choice...
Suprisingly the Legends GPU outperforms the Desire in 3D benchmarks. The CPU is certainly weaker in the Legend, but the comparison below is not quite far because the Legend is still on 2.1 and the desire benchmark was 2.2
Hopefully soon they can be compared like for like...
hxxp://wxw.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&showhide=true&certified_only=1&D1=HTC%20Legend&D2=HTC%20Desire%20(Bravo)&D3=Apple%20iPhone%204
THis is a good read:
hxxp://smartphonebenchmarks.com/forum/index.php?/topic/105-analysis-of-qualcomm-msm7x27-msm7227-msm7627-and-msm7x25-msm7225-msm7625-processors-how-good-are-they/
I might be getting a desire hd tomorrow but I wanna know how the desire HD handles video processing with its new Gpu. So how does it play video and psx4droid, because my desire has a bit of trouble with high def movies and playing FF 9.
Thanks in advance
Sent from my HTC Desire HDfied using XDA App
GPU is really good. I don't have one so my thoughts are based on stuff i've seen online. But it should handle videos just fine.
As for psx4droid, that is not dependent on the GPU, but actually the CPU because it is an emulation program. So in that regard don't expect to see too much of a difference with other phones out there.
SupremeBeaver said:
GPU is really good. I don't have one so my thoughts are based on stuff i've seen online. But it should handle videos just fine.
As for psx4droid, that is not dependent on the GPU, but actually the CPU because it is an emulation program. So in that regard don't expect to see too much of a difference with other phones out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I didn't know about that, I always thought it had a lot to do with the Gpu because it runs so well on the galaxy S
But its nice to hear that the video is good especially with its huge screen
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
DevilzDontCry said:
Oh I didn't know about that, I always thought it had a lot to do with the Gpu because it runs so well on the galaxy S
But its nice to hear that the video is good especially with its huge screen
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
using ninamark 1 .
the GPU for galaxy S will give you 49 fps.
the GPU for Desire HD i have been told its about 35
for Neocore its 55 for Galaxy S vs 58 for HD Desire. but keep in mind that its not fair way to measure using neocore due to the fact its locked @ 55 to 60 fps for Galaxy S
with ninamark 1 . which use more heavey rendering. its showing the gpu true color.
however, you also need to notice that both tests dont mean anything. as i was explaining before in other thread, the dev standard for games is nexus 1. so really. most of the games will run fine on nexus 1. means galaxy s or hd desire wont get any benifits for being superior phones.
SupremeBeaver said:
GPU is really good. I don't have one so my thoughts are based on stuff i've seen online. But it should handle videos just fine.
As for psx4droid, that is not dependent on the GPU, but actually the CPU because it is an emulation program. So in that regard don't expect to see too much of a difference with other phones out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not to be an ass. but its both CPU and GPU for PSX4dorid
PSX4Droid is pretty slow. Have played Diablo and Castevania - Symphony of the Night.
Both plays as if they were run in slowmotion.
Im not satisfyad at all. Seams as if the Desire HD isnt ment for playing games.
SNESoid works great tough. Only slows down in shoot-em-up games.
Anyway, is there a fix for or frameskip in PSX4Droid to activate?
Ethania said:
PSX4Droid is pretty slow. Have played Diablo and Castevania - Symphony of the Night.
Both plays as if they were run in slowmotion.
Im not satisfyad at all. Seams as if the Desire HD isnt ment for playing games.
SNESoid works great tough. Only slows down in shoot-em-up games.
Anyway, is there a fix for or frameskip in PSX4Droid to activate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get the wrong idea. The DHD is excellent for games that use the GPU, but psx4droid uses CPU mainly. In all honesty, the PSX4droid app is not coded very well. Performance isn't great not because of the DHD's hardware, but because of dodgy programming. The developer doesn't seem to care too much for optimizing the app either.
yupp... the guy above me is right. check videos of fpsece, psx emulator for windows mobile. this thing flies, it can even run tekken 3 full speed. ... but guys developing it are real smarties, that's why it runs so well on snapdragon first gen.
Akll the people think that getting a custom rom or kernel is development for their device but it would m make some sense if someone develops or modifies its 3d drivers. that is where real devekopment is needed.please someobe help i am regretting my decision to take this phone over lg optimus one.shet man
.sorry for my english there was some problem with opera due to which i was not able to see what i am writing
yes you are right..... developing 3d drivers is the real challenge for the developers.......
santhosh5639 said:
yes you are right..... developing 3d drivers is the real challenge for the developers.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the real problem its not development, its hardware related, whe dont have a dedicated gpu so theres no use to make 3d drivers, frist of all it would be very difficult to program processor functions cuz when you dont have gpu you have to use the processor's computing power to render the 3d graphics making the 3d games slower.
I know that you would say "but Galaxy Spica (I5700) had its 3d drivers updated" That's right but dont forget that its processor is way different from ours and has a gpu, and obviously the SO had 3d drivers, the developers just updated and changed the stock 3d drivers in order to improve speed and compability, its harder when you have to rewrite entirely.
Maybe some day we can get our Apollo drivers updated but dont expect too much