Related
http://code.google.com/android/
incase anyones not familiar with android, check that site out.
im not sure why there isnt more development or developers that are going after this in terms of getting it working on all devices? im currently using it on my vogue and its amazing. definately better UI in terms of EVERYTHING. its open source, so i think developers should be all over this! has so much potential its kind of ridiculous
vogue thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382265
its working about 80% now thanks to amazing developer martin.
the browser and everything (overall UI) are so much better and smoother than windows mobile! and being that its open source with google ENCOURAGING development of apps and themes and skins and whatnot, i think this is the next best thing to happen to ppc's.
THIS is the actual iphone killer.
just some samples
on a vogue (very smooth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0z9bWiAT44
just a demo of the browser (mine is actually a little smoother than this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FpDDEVWtk
the reason im posting this here is because i was the first one to post in this section with manilla2d (when udk first released it), asking whether we can get this on other devices, and look what happened with that. if we can get the amazing developers from here to work on this like they worked on m2d, then wow this will be amazing!
Yeah, even I'm suprised at the low level of excitement of porting this to all devices. Hoping for some real development . Btw, those videos are pretty impressive.
Akshay
Yeah... I'm a little surprised too.
I have a Vogue now, so I'm OK, but I'd love to see somebody pick this project up for the Touch Pro. It seems to be very similar to the G1, so the porting would be a lot more complete than the porting to the Vogue.
Hopefully somebody with the skills (read: not me) will undertake this.
it'll pick up. i say in 6 months to a year people will snap out of the apple app dev craze. but from a dev point of view, apple is where its at right now. the amount of money you could make is a driver by all means.
htc will also be a key part in this. when they start to release better looking hardware, perhaps something on par with the diamond....you'll see a user increase. and user increase translate into dev interest. so just hang in there....i think you'll get what you want soon.
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
S.V.I said:
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it is always pointless. We do it because we can (and because we don't want to do anything while at work)
(and much like bluemetal, we are all tired of the same old look and functionality in our WM devices). Then again, it can always be worse....
we could all have iphones
Anyways, I am looking forward to someone porting this to the Blue Angel.
The bigest stumbling block for me is lack of Exchange support. GPS isn't really necessary with the cell tower triangulation available. The accuracy is getting better. It will never be as tight as GPS but close is good enough for me. I can do with out 3G (I wish I had it) I don't enjoy the experience with the little screen. It's like looking at the ocean through a porthole. A 5 inch screen with much better resolution would be great. I use it for quick info but surfing is not fun.
I do like the idea of going linux on the phone. It would be that much closer to having a truely mobile desktop. We wouldn't have to install resource hogging shells that ride on top of an already bloated today screen to get better customization.
I think the biggest problem overall though is the hardware needed will put a lot of older equipment like my little wizard out to pasture. I don't have the funds to rush out an purchase a new phone. And yes I think all the bugs will need to be shaken out for a while before I take the plunge. Maybe by the 2nd or third generation of Android things will be a little less "bleeding edge". It all looks great now but I rely on my phone too much to gamble on an untried system.
To be completely honest, I too am suprised by the lack of progress.
This is a complete replacement for Windows Mobile: something we've all only dreamed about up until now. It will have a wicked Dev community around it soon enough.
There were a hell of a lot of efforts to get the Beta running. But now... nothing?
*so confused
The worst part is, it'd be gorgeous on my LG KS20, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon: no one loves us KS20 owners. Guess you were all just jealous of our drivers.
bluemetalaxe said:
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't know if you read my whole post, but i never said "hey everyone lets run something 80% finished on our ppcs."
waiting and hoping isnt going to do anything, thats why i started this thread. to get more attention instead of sitting and waiting for something we arent sure is going to ever happen.
im glad a lot of other people are on the same page as me, wondering why there is barely any development for this. thanks for the support guys
lets get some devs in here to weigh in on this!
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
you'd think more people would be starting to port.. because god is that g1 terrible, you have to have sharpened pencils for fingers to type on that flush keyboard)
Mort said:
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok now these reasons make a lot of sense. im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said. but ok, all of your other reasons make complete sense. im sure the future releases of android will only get better.
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
jakub_w said:
im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who knows? AFAIK, the order numbers aren't that bad, and all those reviewers give some feedback, too. I mean, it's only a week since the G1 is available at all, and, as said, it's not very attractive so far. Not everybody wants to spend hundreds of dollars just to provide Google with requests and code changes and T-Mobile and HTC with money...
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the UI is the really big thing about Android. You can even replace it completely, and I don't know (yet) where the limits / design guides are for applications. I just hope it doesn't get as confusing as Linux on the desktop, where even a Gnome or KDE desktop can be modified so far that it's almost as hard to switch distros as switching from Windows to MacOS...
The important things about Android are more in the basic technology, imho, like
- A stable, timeless system core (*nix is older than me, so "modern" is not quite correct - that goes for MacOS X, too, btw...)
- Seamless integration of connection management and phone functions (opposed to WM, where it still acts like a makeshift patchwork, and with every update less APIs are working...)
- Portable application framework (Java, lots of system APIs)
- Simple application installation (no "is this EXE a PC setup or the PPC executable?", "How the hell do I install a CAB file?", ...)
However, I still wonder how/if Andoid will support direct PC synchronization (for shared files, contacts, appointments, music, ...) and how fast and memory consumptive the required Java VM is... (Well, at least none of the G1 reviews I read complained about that, so it seems to be faster than .NET on WM...)
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
jakub_w said:
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely agree with you on that. Thing is though is that this is a completely different environment with a different set of drivers (and rules) which makes (for example) modifying their parameters to allow for keys normally used for certain functions in WM to be used for something completely different. Also OpenGL (ES) is all that is used on *nix OSes whether or not they run on full or embedded hardware. All that's needed is the driver for the graphics chip. Microsoft wants you to use their proprietary D3D not OpenGL (ES) hence why it was impossible to have OpenGL (ES) before. Also TF3D uses DirectX and not OpenGL ES AFAIK.
Android is great. Only thing I need is a way to get the SDcard image working and a HTC Touch Pro to port Android, Angstrom and/or OpenMoko to, I'd be set.
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
joel2009 said:
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weeell....
- It's Linux and Open Source (some people wouldn't touch a closed system with a stick...)
- It's nice to be prepared when you get the running system
- There is a device with that OS
- The documentation is way better than Microsoft's
- There's a good chance the API will remain compatible, so it doesn't hurt to start early (opposed to WM, where some basic features can/could only be done with device dependant or inofficial APIs, which were dropped in newer updates...)
I've been messing around with a managed TouchFlo3D replacement app on my Diamond, and so far my results have proven that it is feasible to completely replace TouchFlo3D with a managed Today plugin app that mimics it exactly (and performs exactly the same too).
Why rewrite TouchFlo3D you may be asking yourself. Some immediate advantages I can think of include the following:
No need to hack TouchFlo3D for tweaks, the source is available
New apps can be directly integrated into the new TF3D
Transparent theme support with no reverse engineering
As it's a new development, back porting to older/other phones should be easy
It's managed, so development is fast and the barrier for entry is much lower
I plan to create an open-source project for this, but I need a bit of feedback from the xda community to see if this is something that people here would want.
Let me know!
Would definitely be interested. Being managed would be a huge plus for myself to try to learn some of the "touch" stuff that people are doing without needing to learn native coding.
Sounds cool!
Like ThrottleLauncher?
OK
Waiting for IT
Sound good ...will be a big task ...but with control over everything...mmmm
dude, people have been trying to get their hands on TouchFLO3D for a long time now. Chainfire managed to port it but it's still problematic and unstable. if you managed to create a flexible TF3D you'd be considered to be half a god here
Would be great to choose wich app´s i would integrate in TF thats the only thing i dont like in M2D...and if i had the ability to have a tab for custom plug-ins i would be in heaven
One question...would it be just for VGA phones with 3D drivers(diamond,touch pro,etc) like TF3D,or will it be for every WM 6 phone?
Development of Mobile7Ultimate is still up, new progress status update maybe this weekend or next, maybe also something to test for you...and not to forget, VGA support.
But TF3D hacking seems quite interesting as well, since it runs on Polaris as well now
regards,
Martin
I'm glad there seems to a need for this. To answer your questions:
The plan is to create a TF3D replacement which mimics it as closely as possible as a starting point. This will include creating a set of touch controls which will make developing plugins and all kinds of touch apps a breeze (and deliver that unified look ala the iPhone).
I don't think the goals are the same as ThrottleLauncher. The aim will be to create a TF3D port that's open for everyone to contribute. I don't know all that much about ThrottleLauncher (it doesn't run well on my Diamond) so I could be wrong.
It will be fully configurable, and I plan to build an "app store" for it like the other platforms have as well. This needs to be easy for every user to use!
At the moment my demo is targeting WinMo 5 and not using any 3d driver specific functions. So it should run on any WinMo 5+ device. Keeping backward compatibility is always a painful thing to do though, so it's something that will need to be considered. Since it will be open-source, a fork for older devices will always be an option.
Are there any developers willing to contribute to a project of this nature?
My device is screaming for a nice UI like TF3D, M2D is really terrific however after playing with Diamond for a day I love the UI but dislike the Diamond itself.
Many ppl Im sure are just waiting for something as nice as TF3D, the other shells are great but M2D and TF3D offer much nicer integrated mutimedia support and simply an enjoyable experience. I cant offer any technical contribution but I'd surely be a donator.
this sounds really goods.
You have all my support dude
I would like to contribute, I have .net (vb) compact framework development experience. Working on a mobile app for work right now actually. Been trying to do more with using the graphics libraries to create custom controls instead of relying on standard controls.
let me know how I can be of assistance.
Going to be using ChrisTec's framework for it?
rusvdw said:
I'm glad there seems to a need for this. To answer your questions:
The plan is to create a TF3D replacement which mimics it as closely as possible as a starting point. This will include creating a set of touch controls which will make developing plugins and all kinds of touch apps a breeze (and deliver that unified look ala the iPhone).
I don't think the goals are the same as ThrottleLauncher. The aim will be to create a TF3D port that's open for everyone to contribute. I don't know all that much about ThrottleLauncher (it doesn't run well on my Diamond) so I could be wrong.
It will be fully configurable, and I plan to build an "app store" for it like the other platforms have as well. This needs to be easy for every user to use!
At the moment my demo is targeting WinMo 5 and not using any 3d driver specific functions. So it should run on any WinMo 5+ device. Keeping backward compatibility is always a painful thing to do though, so it's something that will need to be considered. Since it will be open-source, a fork for older devices will always be an option.
Are there any developers willing to contribute to a project of this nature?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you explain the advantages over Wad2.0? I dont understand tflo3d, and am very happy with Wad2.0
Thanks!
agentmikeyd said:
can you explain the advantages over Wad2.0? I dont understand tflo3d, and am very happy with Wad2.0
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Touch flow was made by htc..... therefore optimized for our devices. Plus it is just a completely different feel. Personally i like both i go back and forth with them.... when i get bored with one i switch to the other
....plus touch flo is "free"
Girvo said:
Going to be using ChrisTec's framework for it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, if it wasn't for ChrisTec this wouldn't be possible (in managed code anyway).
Gochris said:
I would like to contribute, I have .net (vb) compact framework development experience. Working on a mobile app for work right now actually. Been trying to do more with using the graphics libraries to create custom controls instead of relying on standard controls.
let me know how I can be of assistance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The core is going to be written in C# i'm afraid, but since the framework will be open and support external plugins, nothing will prevent you from writing apps/plugins in vb.
rusvdw said:
Are there any developers willing to contribute to a project of this nature?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd be glad to offer my contribute in my (few) spare time. I've got lot of experience programming in Native C++ and particularly using GDI. And I think I'll have no problems using DirectDraw even if I never used it.
Contact me PM if you are intersted in my help.
Marshall
Transparent Controls
Though I am an experienced programmer, I am new to the PPC world. I have experience in .NET CF (C#).
Presently, I am working on creating transparent custom controls (labels, textboxes, etc)
rusvdw said:
The core is going to be written in C# i'm afraid, but since the framework will be open and support external plugins, nothing will prevent you from writing apps/plugins in vb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think I'd have a huge problem doing C#, I've been trying to convince my boss to start (slowly) coding new projects in it. But I can always just help writing plugins or something
Hello
So I was wondering what people think is the best language to make Windows 8 Metro apps? The options are C++, C# or Javascript.
I have a relatively basic knowledge of all three - but I do not see the point in learning all three of them more. So which language do people here believe is the best to use in the long run, and why? Predominantly I am looking towards games, although have other basic ideas that I would like to try out too (eventually).
I am interested in Windows 8 Metro development, as the market is relatively untouched - in comparison to Android and iOS as platforms. I would say I have a fairly basic knowledge of multiple languages - and would like to be able to create a relatively decent application - so would like to use the code which will enable me to make the best I can, but would preferably also be the easiest to learn.
Thanks
P.S. Sorry for the use of the word "Metro"...
DomCowell said:
Hello
So I was wondering what people think is the best language to make Windows 8 Metro apps? The options are C++, C# or Javascript.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally I use C#. C++ is much less productive. I don't know javascript well enough to use it for an application but I don't think the tolling is as good.
SeanX said:
Personally I use C#. C++ is much less productive. I don't know javascript well enough to use it for an application but I don't think the tolling is as good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the response
C++ is off the list then! Will probably decide based on which I can find the best tools for learning more now then.
Cheers
Being a developer that does mainly c# and extensive javascript only projects over the past 2 years I would pick c#.
It would get you with the basics of programming much better, and javascript even though seems simple it takes quite a while to fully master it and write really good code (not talking about jQuery or anything like that, native javascript).
Also from the BUILD conference I've been in javascript feels like the worse choice compared.
If you want to make games in the future i'd recommend checking out Unity which also works on both c# and javascript, so whichever you choose you can use that as well.
C# by far. VB is getting better though...
morsdyce said:
Being a developer that does mainly c# and extensive javascript only projects over the past 2 years I would pick c#.
It would get you with the basics of programming much better, and javascript even though seems simple it takes quite a while to fully master it and write really good code (not talking about jQuery or anything like that, native javascript).
Also from the BUILD conference I've been in javascript feels like the worse choice compared.
If you want to make games in the future i'd recommend checking out Unity which also works on both c# and javascript, so whichever you choose you can use that as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the response. Will definitely go with C#, based on your response and the other replies in this thread. Will check Unity out at a later date too - thanks!
By the way, do you mean this years Build Conference? If so, jealous of you!
lseidman said:
C# by far. VB is getting better though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the response
I am not sure, but I think Microsoft said that they used c# for their new Skype app.. I've been using it for a while now and its very stable.
I am using C# too
Hi++
I start learning the C# since last year and I have a good feeling about this! however I recommend This for your start because it's awesome !
C# for me too.
I'm really can't imagine how to program using javascript. I've seen the source of the Music app and have ensured that it's really unreadable.
My choice is C#, though it's useless to compare both. In my opinion C# is the best language for applied programming.
I love Mozilla, but from what I've read it doesn't seem like there is really any point to Firefox OS.
Other than flaming me, could you please list some specifics as to why it's beneficial?
I've talked to a lot of people in person about it and they all seem to talk about potential to grow like Android. The main problem I see with this is that whereas Android filled an obvious gap in the market, Firefox OS is trying to carve a niche in now heavily fortified waters. The fact that Windows Mobile both says they'll be happy for 1% of the market, buys off Nokia and pays off devs to port apps, it should be a pretty clear sign this will be a major challenge for Mozilla when a company with a scrooge mcduck tower of cash is piling money on the issue and still getting limited results.
For the record, I'm going to install it on my of my old devices just to play around with it but in the meantime if anyone could pose a good argument for Firefox OS then I'd all ears. It'd be nice to know the time I'll spend setting it up is worth more than just curiosity and Mozilla sympathy.
Or just flame me and call me a noob
in my opinion, we definitely need firefox os. if it will be of any advantage for your user experience, is heavily dependent of its success. but it's the only smartphone os, that uses a really open approach. since most apps are shortcuts for browsing to a certain web page on your smartphone, basing the whole os on a browsing engine makes a lot of sense. and it makes lots of things easier for devs.
It seems promising to have a fully custoimizable and open source OS for low end phones. FOS could extend the lifetime of many phones which is a nice perspective instead of throwing away functional hardware.
FirefoxOS is:
Customisable, free
Hardware UN-requiring
This means that low end phones can use the fos because they don't need powerful hardware, and poorer people in countries like Brazil or Ghana can use modern phones for little price. It's not really meant for our newer phones high-end.
defender of the Open Web
Most important is that Firefox OS seems to be the most tangible defence to keep our Open Web environment from becoming closed. With Firefox OS, the millions of new users from Africa, the Middle East, Asia and Central / South America who are now just starting to buy low cost smart-phones will enjoy using, coding and Creating in Java and HTML 5, and be free to ignore 5.1 with its restrictions such as DRM.
Right now, the Web, Free and Open as we know it seems to be dying! Here's what Danny Obrien of the Electronic Frontier Foundation wrote on October 2 (link to full article after the quote):-
… where you cannot cut and paste text; where your browser can’t “Save As…” an image; where the “allowed” uses of saved files are monitored beyond the browser; where JavaScript is sealed away in opaque tombs; and maybe even where we can no longer effectively “View Source” on some sites, is a very different Web from the one we have today. It’s a Web where user agents—browsers—must navigate a nest of enforced duties every time they visit a page.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/10/lowering-your-standards
I think why people should bother with B2G/Firefox OS is because it's not as complicated as Android - Android has a bunch of stuff that most of the time people won't even bother using so that's one benefit with B2G... Apart from the fact that it's not very hardware dependent, it's also simple and fast and aims at open source which Android seems to be lacking nowadays...
Because no Google there..
Sent from my GT-N5110 using xda app-developers app
Because we like to evolve, have choices and detest monopoly (imagineyou turning into an android ;p)
Becouse is extra
Sent from my GT-S5670 using xda app-developers app
No google, is the point!
I would love to see FireFox as an mobile /tablet platform, because it has given middleware which can run webapps. which i feel is far better than any other achievement unlike any other platform where middleware are heavy sometimes VM's to run app in UI. Firefox gives ability to run apps with PC like standards(HTML5, CSS3) etc.
i personally tested and best thing is there search is quite competing with google search for Android. try one .
Lot of other competeres try making webapps as there UI framework but fais may be because there inexperience, i am hoping Firefox with there vast knowledge can create a ecosystem where mobile ui/ PC ui will became synonyms. in that case nothing except a good webkit will solve all issues. till then we can wait.
~Amit
amorley said:
I love Mozilla, but from what I've read it doesn't seem like there is really any point to Firefox OS.
Other than flaming me, could you please list some specifics as to why it's beneficial?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In 2002 and 2003, the world was saying the same thing about Mozilla's browser. What's the point? IE 6 was pretty amazing (seriously!) when it came out and most Web developers I talked to were happy to have one target client. That sentiment was very different after 2005 when Firefox demonstrated to the world that the Web was stagnating. Most Web developers changed their tunes and started demanding Microsoft release newer versions with modern capabilities and erase IE 6 from the face of the Earth.
Mozilla is a non-profit dedicated to pushing the boundaries of what's possible with Web technology while putting users at the center of their computing experience. We are here with no other agenda. We're not trying to sell ads. We're not trying to sell hardware. We're not trying to grow subscribers. We're trying to put users in more control and to expand the possibilities for the best operating system ever created -- the Web.
That's enough reason for me.
- Asa
(15 year Mozilla veteran)
As a developer I love it because I don't need to code twice (at best) if I want my app to work on multiple devices, screen sizes, OSs, future OSs, etc. The WEB is the platform so my app can easily intercomunicate with other webapps regardless of their underlying technology, because the WEB has standards. This will result in better and rich apps with better and rich services WITHOUT being enslaved by any platform/SDK specifics.
FirefoxOS is the next common-sense step on mobile technology and I'm pretty sure we are going to see Boot2Webkit, Boot2Blink, from the other companies... and if we don't, we will see more companies following the same fate as Nokia, Microsoft...
amorley said:
I love Mozilla, but from what I've read it doesn't seem like there is really any point to Firefox OS.
Other than flaming me, could you please list some specifics as to why it's beneficial?
I've talked to a lot of people in person about it and they all seem to talk about potential to grow like Android. The main problem I see with this is that whereas Android filled an obvious gap in the market, Firefox OS is trying to carve a niche in now heavily fortified waters. The fact that Windows Mobile both says they'll be happy for 1% of the market, buys off Nokia and pays off devs to port apps, it should be a pretty clear sign this will be a major challenge for Mozilla when a company with a scrooge mcduck tower of cash is piling money on the issue and still getting limited results.
For the record, I'm going to install it on my of my old devices just to play around with it but in the meantime if anyone could pose a good argument for Firefox OS then I'd all ears. It'd be nice to know the time I'll spend setting it up is worth more than just curiosity and Mozilla sympathy.
Or just flame me and call me a noob
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Because Mozilla is helping build a internet the world needs and has been for years. Mozilla is also the most privacy focused company making software and has won awards backing that.
I've been trying hard to get our teams to develop for it but there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm for it in China...
I have the Mozilla Flame phone and currently it's stable version is Firefox OS 2.0 and honestly, the improvements they've made make FFOS more unique and beneficial for the user. It's almost up to scratch, just a one or two releases and the features will be there. The speed already is there.
to be free from the grasps of a company who spys on your every move
As a user since version 1.0 on a ZTE Open, I have to say that I don't see a single compelling reason for an end-user to buy a FFXOS device, other than possibly price (debatable: many Android handsets fall into nearly the same price point, and the Lumia 520 is basically the same price as the ZTE Open C and better in every possible regard).
I get that it is an incredibly important vision that Mozilla have for the future of HTML5 and apps, but that matters most on the back end for developers and those who provide apps and services. I also understand that Mozilla have made great efforts to ensure that Open WebAPI is as painless as possible for developers to use, and that using very few lines of code, you can write powerful solutions. These are all fantastic things, and the web and technology in general stand to benefit massively from this.
However, from a purely end-user point of view, I find the UI/UX to be lagging severely behind every other platform, not to mention the relatively poor functionality of the stock apps. They do nothing other platforms don't do better.
The performance is abysmal, even on the Flame, and the battery life fluctuates wildly and does not impress me at all given my usage pattern.
I've filed endless amounts of suggestions for expansion and improvements to UI/UX and 99% of the time am met with blind reticence.
The feel I get is not that this is a platform for everyone by everyone, but a platform for a very small subset of the population (which if you analyze what the platform ships with stock and how they market it, Mozilla seems to have no idea who this population is) controlled by a team with a death-grip on it, fingers in their ears, blindfolds on, chanting "This is perfect, this is perfect, you don't know what you're talking about!".
People's tepid response to the platform and its slow adoption rate should stand as testimony to the fact that the platform is far from perfect.
****, the keyboard STILL sucks complete ass even on v2.2 nightly. Something as fundamental as the primary ****ing input method still isn't even done half-assed correct, so what do you think the rest of the experience is like?
Such a frustrating platform... I really wanted this to be the Phoenix that takes the principles and ideals of webOS from the ashes and sets the world of technology on fire, but it looks more like a poof of smoke at this point.
I'll continue daily-driving the Flame, I'll continue filing bugs and suggestions, and I'll likely continue to pull my hair out in frustration. Hopefully at some point all of my frustration will amount to something positive and I'll be able to whole-heartedly endorse this platform to other end-users and evangelize for it. Currently, that is not even a remote possibility.
Because we should be more principled and not support companies that pay no tax.
I wonder how many people are actually using FFOS as their only phone.
I have a ZTE Open, I am downloading and compiling FFOS builds once every few weeks, hack around just for fun.
But I have an Android for my daily use.
Hi, just wanted to get your opinions of developing apps with the native Android SDK versus PhoneGap/Cordova.
I have coded an app using the Android SDK before, but I found the SDK to be a bit difficult to work with even though it is very powerful. I haven't tried making an app in PhoneGap/Cordova yet, but I'm a very experienced web developer so developing an app with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript sounds very enticing to me. Still I don't know the actual details to making an app with PhoneGap/Cordova though since I've yet to try it.
Besides the benefit of PhoneGap/Cordova being cross-platform, what are your thoughts on each one and which one do you prefer and why?
Isaac Lean said:
Hi, just wanted to get your opinions of developing apps with the native Android SDK versus PhoneGap/Cordova.
I have coded an app using the Android SDK before, but I found the SDK to be a bit difficult to work with even though it is very powerful. I haven't tried making an app in PhoneGap/Cordova yet, but I'm a very experienced web developer so developing an app with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript sounds very enticing to me. Still I don't know the actual details to making an app with PhoneGap/Cordova though since I've yet to try it.
Besides the benefit of PhoneGap/Cordova being cross-platform, what are your thoughts on each one and which one do you prefer and why?
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My personal opinion is that any web app thats on play/app stores should have to have some logo or something to say thats what they are. From a user point there is no comparison really, like comparing a chrome/web app on PC to a native win/linux app, they don't really compare and I personally as a user have yet to see web apps impress. However having said that there is always variance to any argument, I think here it depends on context. So for my app Smart Messenger, there is zero chance as a web app, or if it were possible the experience would be way too bad for the user. However consider a simple listings app that just has a few screens, maybe not as bad. Dont get me wrong, still think web apps should come with a sticker so the user knows not to download, but the experience would fall a shorter distance to native based on complexity/context.
Just my thoughts
It depends on the requirements of the app: if you need to build functionally simple app quickly and spread it across the platforms, then it's better to use hybrid/web app. If you need sophisticated functionality (e.g. games), which has to heavily utilize mobile device's facilities (hardware/software) then the best bet would be to use Android SDK.
surlac said:
It depends on the requirements of the app: if you need to build functionally simple app quickly and spread it across the platforms, then it's better to use hybrid/web app. If you need sophisticated functionality (e.g. games), which has to heavily utilize mobile device's facilities (hardware/software) then the best bet would be to use Android SDK.
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erm not just games, any app that you want fluid and responsive that can't be just a html/php site through a browser .... btw I speak from a user point here, not just a dev. I have yet to find a web app that I would even consider keeping on the phone/tablet... I prefer to use a browser to access the info, not some fakey thing.
Performance is a big factor. If it's a simple app you may sure as well go with Phonegap etc. but for an advanced, more complex app native is always the best options as it will provide much better performance than a Phonegap app.
rootRootRoute said:
Performance is a big factor. If it's a simple app you may sure as well go with Phonegap etc. but for an advanced, more complex app native is always the best options as it will provide much better performance than a Phonegap app.
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I strongly agree here... Ive used both and Phonegap lacks alot in Performance on Android (not on iOS).
If you want a a cross platform frameworks consider Xamarin (C#)
Code:
http://xamarin.com
NobleDroid said:
I strongly agree here... Ive used both and Phonegap lacks alot in Performance on Android (not on iOS).
If you want a a cross platform frameworks consider Xamarin (C#)
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I'm using phonegap for my app it works great on android too.
Try using the ionic framework, it is a game changer.
khashayarp said:
I'm using phonegap for my app it works great on android too.
Try using the ionic framework, it is a game changer.
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As both a developer and user I have yet to see a web app that I would even consider leaving on my phone once I obviously see it's just a local website I have often asked for examples of really good web apps and never seen a single one...
Would it be possible to check out yours ?
Just interested... cheers
deanwray said:
As both a developer and user I have yet to see a web app that I would even consider leaving on my phone once I obviously see it's just a local website I have often asked for examples of really good web apps and never seen a single one...
Would it be possible to check out yours ?
Just interested... cheers
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I have posted it on xda (http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/app-introducing-palm-note-awesome-note-t2861937)
khashayarp said:
Try using the ionic framework, it is a game changer.
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If we're talking about performance, how Ionic can make a difference if it has been built on top of Cordova (like Phonegap)?