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Hey all,
A while ago I've started my hunt for a UMPC. My demands were not simple:
1. Relatively cheap - up to 700$
2. 3.5G connectivity
3. TV-OUT port
4. ~7" screen size
5. Good battery life
6. Keyboard of some kind
7. GPS
I've looked around and couldn't find anything that answered those demands. The biggest issue with UMPCs I've looked at is poor battery life. After a while, I started to think about the Athena as a UMPC alternative. It answers almost all of my demands except the smaller screen and of-course being a WM device its not a fully capable PC. I wanted to ask you Athena owners, if you think that the Athena could be the device for me. Do you feel the need for a more capable OS? Do you wish to replace it with a bigger UMPC? Do some of you have a UMPC and the Athena and feel they complete each other?
Thanks a lot....
I have owned the Athena for almost a year now. I also own the Sony VAIO U70 which is one of their earlier UMPC for Japan Only. (See Info at: )
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/sony_vaio_U50.htm
The VAIO is a great little device that was ahead of its time in my view, however, given the choice, I carry the Athena when I travel. The main reasons, you have already named, GPS, a keyboard of sorts and HSDPA connectivity. I can travel for a week or so without missing any functionality on keeping up with e-mails, opening nearly any attachment, connecting to hotel WiFi, surfing the web, and phone functions as well. Carrying only one light weight charger is also a big plus for me.
The UMPC came with everything included, the docking station, a folding keyboard, etc... but this one did not offer data connectivity other than WiFi which is still typical on most newer UMPC's. The HTC Shift makes a step in the right direction, however it loses the ability to serve as a mobile phone, it's size is considerably larger than you'd want as a phone anyway, and it lacks GPS.
In my view, carrying a phone and a UMPC along with chargers and accessories doesn't make as much sense and just carrying the Athena. I do carry the LG Style-I for use as a phone handset since the Athena is a speakerphone only unless you want to get wired. You need a Bluetooth (something) with the Athena.
Check out the Asus EEE Pc!
I am completly satisfied with my athena, and I can do almost anything that I can do on a regular computer. Also with TomTom installed I think I have the perfect GPS solution, I am not sure that there is really an competitor for the PC that can even come close to TomTom.
But then again, if you need to run Windows XP or another more complete OS then check out the EEE pc instead. http://eeepc.asus.com/global/
It has an 7" screen and a full keybord, also you can always use an USB GPS.
As I posted on the other similar thread, I was in the market for a new phone and laptop, and after getting the Athena I'm not looking for a laptop anymore.
And don't forget that you can still use remote desktop or equivalent software to use any XP or Vista program with Athena.
Battary life should feature prominently in your requirement. No good if you get an UMPC that meets all the requirement but forcing you to carry five bulky spare battery each lasting just 1.5 hours.
Athena is the most perfect all in one mobile device which does it all at this point, IMHO.
If you plan to use it notebook style, get a X7510 (with better keyboard but few hardware keys). If you plan to use it tablet style, get a X7500/X7501 (with better hardware keys).
One aspect of evaluation that you might not have thought about very carefully is portability. 7 inch is no longer possible to be carried around 24/7; whereas 5 inch screen is still very portable. 5 inch screen, together with the realVGA software, will let you see a lot. I don't think you need to see anymore than that as a mobile device.
Another consideration should be what software are there for a mobile device. This may trigger many disagreement, but I'll still say it. XP and Vista software are not appropriate for mobile device IMHO. You need touchscreen, you need it designed for fingers. You can't get the same breath of software on XP and Vista for mobile device. No Tom Tom, No iGO, no top notch plugins that displays all schedule/calendar on the desktop like pocket informant does, no WIMP, not much choice is expense recording software, no good calculators, no good photo dialing programs, etc etc. If you're going to use word, spreadsheet and power point, use SoftMaker Office. It matches the desktop microsoft office in functinos and features. If you're going to use it for internet browsing, go for Opera Mobile or Netfront to give very satisfactory speed. Often people make the mistake of thinking that XP or Vista gives you more software choice. This is true yet untrue. It has better choice in the wrong area. In the area that matters on the move, it has very little or no choice.
Using it as my UMPC
I had the same questions as you. I started looking for a UMPC over a year ago, and was tempted by the OQO 2. I actually ordered it and used it for a weekend. It was returned for a couple of reasons: 1) screen was too small to really be useable; 2) I already have a Blackberry, and did not want to thumb type.
I then considered the Fuji A810 UMPC. I never ordered it because of the passive touch screen. I figured if I was going to pay $1,000+ I wanted and active screen, or really good palm rejection. Since I like to ink, really, only the OQO was a good choice -screen wise. Sometimes the inking on the Advantage is tricky, but I am learning how to avoid vectoring issues. The same issue would have happened on any other UMPC (not the OQO, however).
I never considered the Asus, or any machine running Linux. I have no clue what that OS means, so it was a no go from the start.
I then heard that CompUSA had the Advantage for $550.00 and went to play with it in the store. Put in my BB Sim card, and bingo, I was off and running. I went back the next day and bought one.
I am using the Advantage as my UMPC. I have had it for about 2 months, and think it was a good buy and good decision. To make it more "UMPC like," I have added programs that replicate my Tablet PC pretty well. I am evaluating EverNote for its inking ability (although I have OneNote Mobile also installed, it does not yet (ever?) support inking. I also have SoftMaker Office 2006 (soon to be 2008 and will allow printing via BT).
I also added a data only SIM card ($35.00/mo). When I have longer emails to which I have to respond, the Advantage is perfect. I have gotten pretty quick with the keyboard.
I use MobSync to sync client folders with Word and Excel files. I also use MobSync to transfer Notes from EverNote.
If I do not have my Tablet with me, I have the Advantage. I also always carry the BB, since I do not want to use the Advantage as a phone.
Overall, I think the Advantage is a perfect UMPC solution for me. It took some program purchases to make it what I wanted, but the setup is just what I was hoping for. I love the screen, love the keyboard, love the storage, like the programs I purchased. I can't really think of a downside to using this as my UMPC. The overall cost, with the CompUSA reduction, is still less than what I would have paid for a XP Tablet UMPC.
good thread
my athena is due to arrive tomorrow.
reading this thread only guarantees that i've made a right choice in getting one.
ciao!
I use mine as UMPC connected via Remote Desktop or LOGMEIN.COM to My home/office PC.
No needs for more licences for SW, I use remotely the software AND THE COMPUTING POWER I have! And all data ara safely stored too
Thank you all, my x7500 has arrived today.
I thought I would like to open a new thread for Athena and Shift comparsion. So the information would be more organized. For those who own both Shift and Athena, please your feedback highly appreciated. Anything at all, you regret your shift, or what you don't like about shift? or you love your shift until you want to let your Athena go?
@Wu5262 I thought you mention that you will never consider the Shift?
Thank you in Advance
I would mention what I like about Athena:
I'm using my Athena pretty much 12x7. All my data is pretty much synchronized to my laptop. I could get an instant on with Athena which I appreciate a lot. I could open many word documents with windows mobile 6 with high responsiveness. Snappiness is great when you need to retrieve any information quickly from time to time. I always keep my Athena in my pocket(Using Hugo Boss Dress Pant fit nicely) where ever I go even to Universal Studio until my Athena Dented from the rides(Duh!). It's got Dictionary for Business, Medical, and English, which I find to be very helpful for day to day basis. I have PocketBreeze to organize all my tasks and calendar at the very front of today's screen. That's the first thing in the morning that i would look at when I just turn on my Athena to organize the rest of my day. A Kick Ass Pocket Informant. I also have all my important documents and data on the laptop being stored in the Athena microdrives. Excellent battery life with USB Based car charger which is a big plus convenience. Opera lets me browse through many websites with a breeze. A big high quality 5 inch screen that doesn't strain my eyes. I own Thinkpad T60 and IMO the screen in Athena is better. I could still get fatigue with Thinkpad's screen, not sure why. All I need out of Athena is an even bigger, faster storage, and faster processor system. Speed is my upmost number one priority. My boss often calls me for an information and therefore I need to provide him the soonest or ELSE.
Minor Shortcomings: Slow Charging
Shift is tempting, but I'm afraid I may regret my purchase. I don't have the luxury to try out this baby before buying.
great post, i was thinking the same. at first there was the attraction to the shift, but now, i could get the blu ray burner vaio from comet for a shift. and keep my athena...
says it all really
Rory
PPC may do 80% of daily application, it's necessary to do some bank, AUTOCAD, and some others application under winxp when you are outside, I think winxp is enough, no need Vista.
only reason to use shift is for the vista apps that cant be found on wm.
It kind of funny you started this thread tonight - I just happened to take out my HTC x7501 tonight and have both of them out on my desk at atm. I have been torn ever since I have gotten my shift. I have been trying to use the shift only and see if it will fit all my needs. For my needs and think yours from reading your post you want to compare the WM6 side. The Vista side of the shift was supposed to be more of bonus for me to make it even more usefull. I had mistakenly thought shift's WM side would be as powerful as the x7501 right out of the box. I was very much mistaken. Till a cooked rom comes out for the shift it has many short coming compared to the x7501 on the WM side. No GPS, limited storage space and no camera functions. No external buttons that work in slate mode. So currently there is no comparsion needed. If I was compare the devices assuming a cooked rom will give us these things here is my take.
I see two major pros for the shift over the advantage.
The biggest pro for the shift is the screen. Both the size and the color/brightness of the shift's screen is a big plus. The shift's screen is hands down nicer screen. The useable shift screen size on the WM side is sligthly bigger than the entire x7501 device. The bigger sceen makes using your finger to navigate even better. It is also a boon for reading emails or ebooks. The second is the keyboard. The keyboard on the shift is way better than the x7501. It is bigger and has great feedback. It is a joy to type out an email mesage on the WM6 side of the shift compared to the x7501.
The biggest pros for the x7501 over the shift is it size ???
I know I just said the same thing about shift. But when you carry the x7501 around it is small enough to put in coat or jacket pocket and it form factor makes it look likea small book. Compare that to the "man bag" the shift is carried around in. The shift is much bigger and heaver to drag around. The shift dose not fit into any pockets of any jacket I own, and even if it did it is to heavy would weight down on that side of your jacket. The other pro of the x7501 over shift is its storage choices having the bigger internal memory, a mini sd card, and a hardrive. That is just sweet! Even after the shift rom is cooked it never be able to compete with x7501 in this area. I worry that I will always be wanting in this area with my shift.
You know I could go round and round with pros and cons both devices are nice, sexy looking and have features that other does not have. I don't know if I will ever be 100% happy with either now that I have both. I think I will have to hold on to both and visit this again after a cooked rom comes out for the shift. Till then I will probably keep switching back and forth and wishing that I took other device with me instead after a while.
I don't If I helped answer question but I sure have made myself confused now
stormforger said:
It kind of funny you started this thread tonight - I just happened to take out my HTC x7501 tonight and have both of them out on my desk at atm. I have been torn ever since I have gotten my shift. I have been trying to use the shift only and see if it will fit all my needs. For my needs and think yours from reading ....
I don't If I helped answer question but I sure have made myself confused now
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Click to collapse
shift should i think be bought for the reason of u wanting a umpc. the wm side is not so good right now. shift is a nice device but has a bit too many shortcomings out of the box. it will be nice once modded. remind me a bit of the iphone
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
stormforger said:
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hehe yea thats a big plus.
stormforger said:
Oh one other thing I like better about the shift is that it's battery recharges much faster than the x7501. I know it not a big deal but I like not having to wait long for anything
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Click to collapse
Yes you are very right, the first time I bought my Athena, I was shocked on how slow the battery charging especially out of a USB port. Not sure if Advantage 7510 would improve considerably.
i guess i bought the shift because i realize i need vista to complete some of my work, there are just quite a few software which doesn't run under ppc, so i need an UMPC, another reason that i bought shift is because this forum, i know i will have lots of fun treaking the device and there will be lots of support here as well.
Shift is not for everyone, but certainly i am happy about it.
wu5262 said:
i guess i bought the shift because i realize i need vista to complete some of my work, there are just quite a few software which doesn't run under ppc, so i need an UMPC, another reason that i bought shift is because this forum, i know i will have lots of fun treaking the device and there will be lots of support here as well.
Shift is not for everyone, but certainly i am happy about it.
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Click to collapse
yep. the community is always the key. u have the people from the athena forums here now working on the shift and u also have pof here. the shift will be a nice device once we are done with it.
HTC Shift Vs HTC Athena
the athena is a very good device. I bought the Shift mainly just for fun. In fact u can do most things on the athena. The curve of owning a HTC Shift goes like this. During the first few hours it was really fun. I was quite amazed with the quality and the keyboard. After playing for awhile then i realize the Winmo is far inferior to Athena. i cannot install all my applications into it as the internal memory is so small. Not only that it cannot read the SD card. I read somewhere in this forum that there is no way to connect to the sd card as there are no wires attaching to it. After that I left it at home. Without bothering to play with it. After a week I started reading this forum again and some smart guy suggested to remove the finger recoginition security. I did it and wow, the speed is now much faster and acceptable. I started removing all those applications I don't need such as Origami and so on. I tweaked around with the battery settings as well. Now I am beginning to like it again as I have longer battery life and a faster machine. One thing is that I don't understand is why HTC only puts 64mb ram into this. Are they thinking of launching a HTC Shift 2 with 128mb ram. And a longer battery life. I think this is a way they milk the consumers for more money..
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
skin57 said:
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
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Click to collapse
you have your opinion and we have ours ... we know that the shift is able to do more than by default .. so we will try to make it the best possible.
the shift is not the fastest UMPC and if you bought it just to have an umpc .. I think that you got it wrong. The shift is first a double OS and it's important for US... because it's like having 2 devices in one ! A PDA/PPC that you can use 24h/24 and a computer that you can use WHEN YOU WANT.
I personnaly want the shift to replace my laptop, my desktop, and my phone (HTC TOUCH) .. it's my opinion and nobody will be able to change my mind about it.
If you think that for you it's a little computer and that you are happy with it .. that's cool, but we may want more for a device that can do more
that's all
Yeah i have an athena a phone viewty and a ASUS eee so this could replace all 3 or maybe just the eee and athena its a convergence device it does what it says on the tin but is only average at each point but good enougth i think
skin57 said:
Sometimes i really wonder what users in this forum are expecting from the Shift: Shift is a WindowsVista-UMPC in first place - the limited WindowsMobile-Part SnapVUE is just a nice Add-on for Instand-On (and powersaving) Mail, Calendar and Contact access. Not more, not less. That's why even the Hardware of the WM-Part is that limited (no Storage access) - hey, in fact, the WM-Side is not much more than the 3G Modem for Vista.
I bougt it because i wanted to have a small Vista-PC - otherwhise, i would have kept my HTC Universal. Yeah, i opended the WM-Side to install Opera and GPRSmonitor (too keep track of my 3G-Usage - 5 gigabyte contract...). But i don't expect more from SnapVue - and it does what's advertised, pretty well.
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Click to collapse
Well for me, I was expecing Shift to be a superb WM Phone with Vista as a bonus. WM with a nice huge screen and a nice keyboard to work on. I already own Thinkpad T60 with 3GB RAM, 4GB Readyboost, fast little machine.
I'm not expecting the Vista in Shift to replace my laptop knowing that it's only got 20GB free storage to work on and 1GB RAM(For VISTA just INSANE).
Sure it would be nice to replace Athena and Thinkpad Laptop with Shift. But I will hold my breath on that.
koala996 said:
you have your opinion and we have ours ... we know that the shift is able to do more than by default .. so we will try to make it the best possible.
the shift is not the fastest UMPC and if you bought it just to have an umpc .. I think that you got it wrong. The shift is first a double OS and it's important for US... because it's like having 2 devices in one ! A PDA/PPC that you can use 24h/24 and a computer that you can use WHEN YOU WANT.
I personnaly want the shift to replace my laptop, my desktop, and my phone (HTC TOUCH) .. it's my opinion and nobody will be able to change my mind about it.
If you think that for you it's a little computer and that you are happy with it .. that's cool, but we may want more for a device that can do more
that's all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, i really LOVE the WM Part of the Shift - it's great to have instant-on-access to mail, calendar, contacts - and, after opening SnapVue, to OperaMobile (also as an instant on alternative... especially when Vista is doing updates etc). But again, it remains a UMPC in first place (and what it makes better than ANY UMPC on the market so far is the Keyboard, not to forget embedded 3G). That's what the hardware is designed to be - a UMPC with some added InstantOn-Functions. And that's the reason why the HARDWARE of WM on the shift is that limited: Low RAM, low FLASH, no Hardware-Keys in Slate-Mode, no Access to the HardDisk, no Access to the SD Card, no Access to WLAN, no access to Touchpad, no Access to the Fingerprint reader, no Access to the WebCam, even no Access to the Microphone (as far as i know - i analyzed the board very well, but it's hard to track wires on a multilayer board ). Yeah, these limitations are Hardware-Limitations, not changeable by a cooked ROM (and i really loved cocked roms for my HTC Universal). Yeah, i analyzed the hardware as good as possible. Yeah, it's possible to make this all available to the WM6 part of the shift - but ONLY (!!!!!!) with a running Vista and an application running on both ends that pass through these functions (and hey, this wouldn't make much sense, eh??).
I know, this is a WM community, so the focus HAS TO BE on WM. But again, the Shift was never designed to be an WM device in first place - and HTC markets it as an UMPC, not as an "Hyper-PDA".
By the way, ONE limitation MIGHT be removeable with WM 6.1: The screen resolution in WM.... 6.1 is the first version that supports 800x480 Screens (like on the SE Experia). So, indeed, there is some room left for improvements through cooked roms.
skin57 said:
Hey, i really LOVE the WM Part of the Shift - it's great to have instant-on-access to mail, calendar, contacts - and, after opening SnapVue, to OperaMobile (also as an instant on alternative... especially when Vista is doing updates etc). But again, it remains a UMPC in first place (and what it makes better than ANY UMPC on the market so far is the Keyboard, not to forget embedded 3G). That's what the hardware is designed to be - a UMPC with some added InstantOn-Functions. And that's the reason why the HARDWARE of WM on the shift is that limited: Low RAM, low FLASH, no Hardware-Keys in Slate-Mode, no Access to the HardDisk, no Access to the SD Card, no Access to WLAN, no access to Touchpad, no Access to the Fingerprint reader, no Access to the WebCam, even no Access to the Microphone (as far as i know - i analyzed the board very well, but it's hard to track wires on a multilayer board ). Yeah, these limitations are Hardware-Limitations, not changeable by a cooked ROM (and i really loved cocked roms for my HTC Universal). Yeah, i analyzed the hardware as good as possible. Yeah, it's possible to make this all available to the WM6 part of the shift - but ONLY (!!!!!!) with a running Vista and an application running on both ends that pass through these functions (and hey, this wouldn't make much sense, eh??).
I know, this is a WM community, so the focus HAS TO BE on WM. But again, the Shift was never designed to be an WM device in first place - and HTC markets it as an UMPC, not as an "Hyper-PDA".
By the way, ONE limitation MIGHT be removeable with WM 6.1: The screen resolution in WM.... 6.1 is the first version that supports 800x480 Screens (like on the SE Experia). So, indeed, there is some room left for improvements through cooked roms.
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it's not because we are a WM community that we want WM to be the best.. we whant the SHIFT to be the best... and we are pretty sure that we will be able to make these things running in WM.
you think that we need an application to make everything working from WM side... but why are you sure that it's not the opposite? That an application running in WM side is "silently" sharing the hardware to Vista. .. and that it is disabled in WM side?
The chipset with 3G is from WM side... and the WM side share the 3G to VISTA.. so it could be the same for BT,Wifi, SD, ....
koala996 said:
it's not because we are a WM community that we want WM to be the best.. we whant the SHIFT to be the best... and we are pretty sure that we will be able to make these things running in WM.
you think that we need an application to make everything working from WM side... but why are you sure that it's not the opposite? That an application running in WM side is "silently" sharing the hardware to Vista. .. and that it is disabled in WM side?
The chipset with 3G is from WM side... and the WM side share the 3G to VISTA.. so it could be the same for BT,Wifi, SD, ....
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Click to collapse
I could argue with obvious hardware design (the UMPC side is pretty easy to analyze, have a look at the PCI and USB busses). I could argue with "Traced wires on the board" (something that is not really reliable on a multilayer board).
But you can easily find out on your own: Reset SnapVue and see which functions are gone in VISTA while WM restarts. You'll find out: 3G radio (of course, as this is provided by WM - by the way: Through internet connection sharing) - and propably the Sound (but not because Sound is implemented through WM - have not found the reason so far). Bluetooth? Available. WiFi? Available. SD? Available. HDD?? Available.
skin57 said:
I could argue with obvious hardware design (the UMPC side is pretty easy to analyze, have a look at the PCI and USB busses). I could argue with "Traced wires on the board" (something that is not really reliable on a multilayer board).
But you can easily find out on your own: Reset SnapVue and see which functions are gone in VISTA while WM restarts. You'll find out: 3G radio (of course, as this is provided by WM - by the way: Through internet connection sharing) - and propably the Sound (but not because Sound is implemented through WM - have not found the reason so far). Bluetooth? Available. WiFi? Available. SD? Available. HDD?? Available.
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Click to collapse
I don't have the Shift yet.. so I can't test it myself.. but I have never heard about it before (maybe because I have never heard about someone rebooting WM when Vista was launched).
It will be harder .. yes .. but we will try our best to make it work in both sides !
I am interested in a new latop and have been doing quite a lot of research on the Shift. Voice call functionality is probably the only thing holding me back from making a definite decision right now. I have been purusing about and have come across a few questions as post dates seem intermintent on whether or not a few of the things I am looking for will come true. So if members could give me a point of view on to wait or not, or even to look at another device.
1.) I see that voice call functionality is not there, and am wondering if this is a "yet" or "a maybe" or a "don't get your hopes up".
2.) I have been a frequent user of cooked roms from HTC and was wondering if there is going to be anywhere near the support for the Shift as there is for other devices such as the Tytn II since I am all about making a great device even better.
3.) Is there any reasons why any of you can personally think of why I should seek another UMPC device or small laptop when compared to the Shift. I am going to be using it mostly for travel, media functions (mp3/movies), and of course web browsing/downloading. Things I am worried about... battery life, and never being able to make phone calls, and not having a touch screen. Owning a Tilt I am spoiled to that aspect
4.) Is the range of the bluetooth going to be greater than 33'? I know some types of bluetooth headsets can go much further distances, but am unsure if that is for media only or if that will be an option for voice call for the Shift as well.
5.) I currently have a Tilt running many programs such a mobile shell, poket weather, AT&T Navigator, and things along those lines. What is the likely-hood that I will be able to use such programs on the unlocked side of WM for the Shift. Or is that really going to depend a lot on the software programs themselves?
I have more questions, but have yet to search for the answers before posting, so I will be back soon.
Thank you for all your help and input in advance!
SKy
skyfox99 said:
I am interested in a new latop and have been doing quite a lot of research on the Shift. Voice call functionality is probably the only thing holding me back from making a definite decision right now. I have been purusing about and have come across a few questions as post dates seem intermintent on whether or not a few of the things I am looking for will come true. So if members could give me a point of view on to wait or not, or even to look at another device.
1.) I see that voice call functionality is not there, and am wondering if this is a "yet" or "a maybe" or a "don't get your hopes up".
2.) I have been a frequent user of cooked roms from HTC and was wondering if there is going to be anywhere near the support for the Shift as there is for other devices such as the Tytn II since I am all about making a great device even better.
3.) Is there any reasons why any of you can personally think of why I should seek another UMPC device or small laptop when compared to the Shift. I am going to be using it mostly for travel, media functions (mp3/movies), and of course web browsing/downloading. Things I am worried about... battery life, and never being able to make phone calls, and not having a touch screen. Owning a Tilt I am spoiled to that aspect
4.) Is the range of the bluetooth going to be greater than 33'? I know some types of bluetooth headsets can go much further distances, but am unsure if that is for media only or if that will be an option for voice call for the Shift as well.
5.) I currently have a Tilt running many programs such a mobile shell, poket weather, AT&T Navigator, and things along those lines. What is the likely-hood that I will be able to use such programs on the unlocked side of WM for the Shift. Or is that really going to depend a lot on the software programs themselves?
I have more questions, but have yet to search for the answers before posting, so I will be back soon.
Thank you for all your help and input in advance!
SKy
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1. Dont get you hopes up, in fact i dont think we ever get all these functions that some say they are working on. why bother? what do you relly want that big acphone fore?
2. see 1.
3. it is a machine with limited power great for surfing bad for alot else
4. have only used a bluetooth mouse works great, havnt used it far from away lol
5. the stoage is wery limired on the shift, no room for alot of apps
skyfox99 said:
1.) I see that voice call functionality is not there, and am wondering if this is a "yet" or "a maybe" or a "don't get your hopes up".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is between "maybe" and "don't get your hopes up": requires security unlocking the device and changing some NV items in radio, but I'm not sure if the microphone is connected on the SnapVUE side. Bluetooth is definitely not connected, so it won't be possible to call through a headset.
skyfox99 said:
2.) I have been a frequent user of cooked roms from HTC and was wondering if there is going to be anywhere near the support for the Shift as there is for other devices such as the Tytn II since I am all about making a great device even better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROM cooking is imminent, some of us are already using cooked ROMs.
I use mine for surfing (3G is great), documents, email and the odd movie. It won't cope with much else, which is fine because that's all I want it for. And why would you want voice calling on this thing? Bizarre, but each to their own.
The big thing is it is tiny...and well connected...a bit like Kate Moss
I appreciate the feedback. I was hoping for voice call via 1.2 i suppose for 300' range so i could just walk around with a headset on with the Shift at my desk at work. I am guessing i was expecting a little too much. I really am just looking for a touchscreen laptop that isn't too big and isn't too expensive. Any ideas for a computer along those lines?
If you at work, then you should have internet connection. Some telecom operators offer IP telephony. I am using this on Shift with even better functionality than mobile phone and with BT headset. It is possible to use also Skype for example. You can use the functionality even in move in wifi networks or mobile networks with flat rate package. Of course, 3G networks preferred.
shift
personally id buy which is what im going to do, but since it has windows mobile and a sd slot, it wouldnt be hard for some one copy software from another phone and since it has nothing to do with screen capabilities of processor speed im sure it woul be compatibal from almost any device because it is just a drive for hardware, bluetooth is not so much a hardware issue more sofware which once sd slot made usable might be ale to achive easyer when size is no matter, to addd extra options to handler or driver for blue tooth whichever.. besides if u like videos im sure the screen is somewhat high def being that its 16 million colors (not sure dont have it yet) and most computer screens are like 232k colors it might be like 720p or something not sure i dont know how many colors they can display and whatever but it'll make videos amazing compared to 64k colors of other phones, and some people have developed full xp drivers for it so might get lucky and be abl to get the ultamit device for embedded programing being you coul have embedded on a device which you could make program then test with or without touch screen very fastly and id only take a minute to switch back to fix errors...
Here in the states VOIP on a mobile phone really isn't there just yet, our networks are too slow on 3g I think. Although I don't really know much about it. Is skype VOIP to VOIP only, or can you call any phone number? I don't really want too much of a hassle having to hack this thing to get it to do what I want. I am actually getting tired of doing all that for now after flashing rom after rom to my tilt to get it to work the way I want. As is now I am unable to connect to my exchange server at work and am unsure as to what the problem is and really just want something to work ideally out of the box, but I know that won't happen.
dinscurge said:
personally id buy which is what im going to do, but since it has windows mobile and a sd slot, it wouldnt be hard for some one copy software from another phone and since it has nothing to do with screen capabilities of processor speed im sure it woul be compatibal from almost any device because it is just a drive for hardware, bluetooth is not so much a hardware issue more sofware which once sd slot made usable might be ale to achive easyer when size is no matter, to addd extra options to handler or driver for blue tooth whichever.. besides if u like videos im sure the screen is somewhat high def being that its 16 million colors (not sure dont have it yet) and most computer screens are like 232k colors it might be like 720p or something not sure i dont know how many colors they can display and whatever but it'll make videos amazing compared to 64k colors of other phones, and some people have developed full xp drivers for it so might get lucky and be abl to get the ultamit device for embedded programing being you coul have embedded on a device which you could make program then test with or without touch screen very fastly and id only take a minute to switch back to fix errors...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's amazing - one sentence....
Personally I would strongly advise you against buying this device. FOr the price you could get a small convertible tablet PC that would do far, far, far more than the Shift ever will. I bought a Fujitsu t2010 for $1100 US. I then spent $200 at NewEgg buying stuff to upgrade and i now have, for the same price as a shift ($1300):
12.1" active digitizer, no comparison to a passive digitizer (touchscreen) for taking notes, drawing, or anything else. active is 100x better
4GB RAm
250gb SATA HDD
1.2ghz ULV Dual Core cpu
WiFi/BT
5 HOUR BATTERY LIFE RUNNING VISTA WITH STANDARD BATTERY
TOTAL WEIGHT 3lbs
3g pc card modem- lets me use 3G data AND make phone calls AND send sms, slips into PC card slot and has retractable antenna
BT headset
Nice screen protector
nice webcam
Soooo, for what I spent on my Fuji I could have a little shift that has a crappier screen, shorter battery life, crippled hardware, etc. Why would anyone do that? Don't like a 12.1"? No problem, get a Fujitsu U810 (5" screen, $800), or a Fujitsu p1620 ($9", about $100 more thanthe shift). Don't like the Fuji's? OK, google convertible tablet and you'll get a ton of various little machines that can outperform the shift with a similar form-factor.
I know that there are some people who love thier Shift, and i am not trying to bash them. I just think that the Shift is an INCREDIBLY niche product and that most users would be much happier with a convertible tablet that is the same price, better battery ,processor,screen,etc. Some of the sacrifices we make in mobile devices is for the phone functionality, and if shift can't (and most likely won't ever) do that, why make those sacrifices? Especially when adding a cheap peice of hardware to a much more powerful platform (tablet pc) gives you everything you need?
am sorry but i have to said
no i have many proplem then i sale it
and buy sony ux37gn its more powerfull than the shift
and with no proplem " made in japan "
the only proplem is the price
Buy one. They are fantastic!
scopy60 said:
buy sony ux37gn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have much smaller display, are bulky and have no Windows Mobile (ARM) subsystem.
devictoria said:
They have much smaller display, are bulky and have no Windows Mobile (ARM) subsystem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't think they even have built in 3G do they?
I Like Shift!
FWIW, I really like my Shift....
Didn't buy it to be a computing powerhouse, but a take with me everywhere device.
I like the flexibility to use it as a slate (tablet), a laptop, or a slider.
Overall, works great...
mlalahoi said:
Personally I would strongly advise you against buying this device.
Soooo, for what I spent on my Fuji I could have a little shift that has a crappier screen, shorter battery life, crippled hardware, etc. Why would anyone do that? Don't like a 12.1"? No problem, get a Fujitsu U810 (5" screen, $800), or a Fujitsu p1620 ($9", about $100 more thanthe shift). Don't like the Fuji's? OK, google convertible tablet and you'll get a ton of various little machines that can outperform the shift with a similar form-factor.
I you need?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but cannot buy Fujitsu P1620 in Holland for some reason. Not happy with my Shift at all!
Huib
ArchiMark said:
FWIW, I really like my Shift....
Didn't buy it to be a computing powerhouse, but a take with me everywhere device.
I like the flexibility to use it as a slate (tablet), a laptop, or a slider.
Overall, works great...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too - it seems those that aren't happy really should have asked what they really wanted first up. I don't find performance an issue - battery life is OK for surfing etc - it's not an 8 hour music/video player though, and not meant to be. That's what iPod's etc are for. In my case, what my HX4700 is for. To me the WM6 with keyboard and 3G is extremely valuable - I am involved in music when not working and I can keep an eye on those related emails during the day (cannot log into mail from work), respond where necessary etc. No boot ups. If something needs more, or a big file attached, then I can boot to Vista.
Office 2003 is the way to go tho. 2007 is like Vista - bulky and slow.
I suspect the sales pitch of the Shift may have led people to believe it was going to be something other than what it is. I did the homework first, so knew what I was getting, especially around performance. Anyways, not sure whether HTC are actually going to sell many of these given the late arrival, seemingly little support (drivers, XP etc) and some polarised view points on it.
HTC SHIFT Rocks ....
for those un-happy with shift i would say u guys never really understood the essence of this device ... according to me this device is closest to the ideal device for a mobile person that HTC could make keeping in view today's technology and price limitations ...
I travel a lot very frequently and often all of a sudden need to spend nights over at a new place etc... but with shift along i am relieved of the hastles i used to face earlier ... its size is just ideal for it to be carried around everywhere and its functunality is well thought off ... and all the more important is that after liberation it gives u the power of two devices in one! A quick use WM side and a full fleged windows vista to substitute ur laptop for "work related" needs.
I normally use the WM interface when i am really mobile or dont need to access too much stuff.. or just need to use skype to chat with a supplier, etc ... but when i am either back in my car or in the hotel room or when i have some spare time or when i need to access bank website (our bank websites dont open in WM due to security concerns) ... I use the VISTA side ...
There are some annoyances off and on like - i cant multitask as well i can on my PC etc .. but those were known to me before i shelled out cash for this device.. the keyboard is smalll but what better u think HTC could have stuffed in such a device ...??? It's usable and its pretty neat too .. i have used it for typing long letters and reports with absolutely no problem ... no doubt u have type with a finger but its comfy once u get the hang of it! Also i can tell u with my practical experience that someone who's gonna shift after using a very powerful computer will feel it to be a bit slow but we have to understand these limitations to bring the best out of this device! So buy a HTC Shift , but plz be a bit just a bit patient while using it and it will be ur friend in need.
Keeping my kind of a multitasked life style in view (a medical doctor, a business man, a GPS System's Consultant, etc) - i would suggest u all to buy a Case Logic HDC-2 case ... it fits the shift well in it's original cover, fits in its charger, usb hub, a portable laser mouse, my stationary kit, my digital camera, a portable DVD writer, my mobile travel charger, candys to give me instant energy if reqd. and small nit bits like my 3 types of visiting cards, etc.). I normally carry the bag around with me in my car or on travel. Let the bag primarity lie in the car/hotel room as the case maybe and take only the shift in its leather case along while going for a meeting or to meet a client etc. and use the other bag contents as per need. But let me tell u that carrying this small kit has helped me out in so many conditions that i just cant thank HTC for making such a good device and to Case Logic for unkowingly creating such a good case to carry my stuff. (Case Logic HDC-2 is actually a HDD carrying case... but it fits the shift and it's accessories just right!) (see the pics)
For me carrying the shift in a harddisk carrying case gives me all the more comfort because i feel if a case is designed to protect a HDD, it can protect my Shift well!
And another thing: this bag fits perfectly and tightly in the space between any car's front seats ... so it stays there intact inspite of any bumps or pits on Indian Roads during the rainy season! ;-)
skyfox - did you have a bsquare powerhandheld once?
I am also planning to buy this machine. I need this device for simple, not so powerful development machine, where I can open up a text pad and run mysql on it. Can you run mysql on this machine and how responsive is running small dev mysql server there?
I still haven't decided on the purchase of the shift as of yet... I really want it, but I'm not sure if I'm going to carry this & a pocketpc...
I have sold my htc 7501, and was looking for something similar; I love the form of the shift, I am disappointed that it doesn't support voice calling...
My question is do you still carry a pocket pc? If so, what do you reccomend?
I can't get used to a regular cellphone...
Sum suggestions or input on what i should do would be appreciated.
Hi
The fact is that our shift can't make calls. That means for me that I need a mobile. I can't get along with a tiny display and/or a crappy OS like s60 (just my point of view) and the shift isn't really a pocket pc for me.That's why I carry my shift on my back and my Kaiser in my pocket.
The real problem with Shift is that it can't make voice call (at least not yet), as mentioned before.
But, anyway, I bought the Shift "as it was" and not for what "it could become someday".
So, I'm carrying my Shift in my suitcase and a LG KS20 (WM 6) in my pocket.
In order to keep synced everything I use an Exchange server.
Hope this answered to your question.
Thanks for the input, that really helps.
I had planned on getting the shift & the htc touch pro.
i was thinking if there was a way to simplify my load by just getting a standard cell, but i can't live w/o a pocketpc, LOL!!
i now know i'm not the only one carrying a umpc & a pocketpc.
I've ditched the pocket PC (well kinda...use either an Omnia i900 or N95 - both capable PIM devices)...the Shift fills the gap nicely. I use the SnapVue side all the time...email, quick check on the web for something basic...it really is great to have that instant on and no need for an external modem (phone)...the Shift isn't going anywhere far from me in the short term.
Hi,
For now, I carry my Shift and my Kaiser.
IF The phone function AND the SD acces get working, I might leave it at home.
For now, my Kaiser is my agenda, phone & actually my external memory.
Greetz,
Pfeffa-rah
Pfeffa-rah said:
Hi,
For now, I carry my Shift and my Kaiser.
IF The phone function AND the SD acces get working, I might leave it at home.
For now, my Kaiser is my agenda, phone & actually my external memory.
Greetz,
Pfeffa-rah
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ditto here.
Thanks
Ram
I've tried to like it, i really have, but it's defeated me. The under two hours battery life for one. Now i was going to buy a tekkeon external battery pack, thats how much i wanted to stay with the Shift, and give the project time to come up with a rom. But i'm over it. The device was alomost there and i gad dreams of using it for days on the windows mobile side and occasionally switching over to vista. But i can't access the wifi from windows mobile. I can't access the SDcard from windows mobile. And for the life of me I can't get the GPS to work.
Even with the Roms available on the site now there's too many issues. The usb tool for one. The thing is just too unreliable. It drops out connecting to vista, it fails to sync outlooks emails if you have lots of them. Turn on high power and it's better but then vista lasts for an hour and a half.
It's almost the best UMPC I've ever owned but the compromises are too great.
I'm going to buy an Advantage and sync it to my LG P100 and that's replace the machine the Shift almost was.
mactablet said:
I've tried to like it, i really have, but it's defeated me. The under two hours battery life for one. Now i was going to buy a tekkeon external battery pack, thats how much i wanted to stay with the Shift, and give the project time to come up with a rom. But i'm over it. The device was alomost there and i gad dreams of using it for days on the windows mobile side and occasionally switching over to vista. But i can't access the wifi from windows mobile. I can't access the SDcard from windows mobile. And for the life of me I can't get the GPS to work.
Even with the Roms available on the site now there's too many issues. The usb tool for one. The thing is just too unreliable. It drops out connecting to vista, it fails to sync outlooks emails if you have lots of them. Turn on high power and it's better but then vista lasts for an hour and a half.
It's almost the best UMPC I've ever owned but the compromises are too great.
I'm going to buy an Advantage and sync it to my LG P100 and that's replace the machine the Shift almost was.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
--
I understand your frustrations. I did this with my ASUS R2H+Tilt for good number of months, but I moved to Shift because ASUS R2H is heavier than Shift and carrying two devices is much painful and also the power consumption is not that greater than Shift. I still own ASUS R2H and Tilt. I also have an Everon with Novatel 3G, I installed Windows Mobile 6 Emulator on that and played for a while, but it is like turning on the system completely forever, but the power consumption is much much better than R2H or Shift. I had Q1 before and a Vega but I retired them from active duty.
--Ram--
I can also understand your frustration...still, for now, I like it and cannot see me moving away until something else with a fully functioning trimmed down version of an operating system (plus Win7 or something) comes to fill the void. I have no issue with the USB Tool...I'm using i00 rom and XP tablet.
mactablet said:
I've tried to like it, i really have, but it's defeated me. The under two hours battery life for one. Now i was going to buy a tekkeon external battery pack, thats how much i wanted to stay with the Shift, and give the project time to come up with a rom. But i'm over it. The device was alomost there and i gad dreams of using it for days on the windows mobile side and occasionally switching over to vista. But i can't access the wifi from windows mobile. I can't access the SDcard from windows mobile. And for the life of me I can't get the GPS to work.
Even with the Roms available on the site now there's too many issues. The usb tool for one. The thing is just too unreliable. It drops out connecting to vista, it fails to sync outlooks emails if you have lots of them. Turn on high power and it's better but then vista lasts for an hour and a half.
It's almost the best UMPC I've ever owned but the compromises are too great.
I'm going to buy an Advantage and sync it to my LG P100 and that's replace the machine the Shift almost was.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dont leave us.
its cool mate, sometimes using gps on the shift can take up to 15-20 mins to lock, sometime its bloody straight away. I have also come close to shopping it off but right now im still holding out for SD card access on the WM side. For me that's the one thing that will make this device truly wanted.
all the best with what ever decsion u make!
I keep going back and forth myself.
Despite all of my research, I can't believe all of the near deal-breakers I didn't discover until I had it in-hand. Specifically, the lack of SD card access and wi-fi in Snapvue mode.
I could honestly live without Vista--I was just hoping for a WinMo device in this form factor (large touch screen) with the slide out keyboard. Having to swap my SIM card and/or live with the horrible battery life & performance under Vista is proving to be a pain in the rear.
tjkraz said:
I keep going back and forth myself.
Despite all of my research, I can't believe all of the near deal-breakers I didn't discover until I had it in-hand. Specifically, the lack of SD card access and wi-fi in Snapvue mode.
I could honestly live without Vista--I was just hoping for a WinMo device in this form factor (large touch screen) with the slide out keyboard. Having to swap my SIM card and/or live with the horrible battery life & performance under Vista is proving to be a pain in the rear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed. I'm seriousl looking at the Viliv S5 with a touch HD for the Windows mobile solution. Paired with my stowaway BT keyboard and mouse the two units will do what the shift promised I think for the same weight or less, more power, more features and more functionality.
Viliv S5 + Touch HD
# Wake up to XP in 5 sec, wakeup to phone instant
# 6 hour video playback - > 5 hours solid computing useage, 50 hours plus internet and WinMO useage.
# 200 hours Standby Time + whatever the HD has
# GPS X 2, S5 has awesome GPS
# Touchscreen X 2, on screen keyboard X 2, full touch typeable keyboard for both (stowaway works fine on both devices)
Viliv Navigation on Shift
Hi,
here is the link to the navigation software used on the Viliv. (http://www.streetdeck.com/DownloadTrial.aspx)
I am downloading both the 20MB and 1.7GB free trials right now onto my Shift w/W7 RC.
If I get it all working, I'll post back the results (maybe even a video! )
tjkraz said:
I keep going back and forth myself.
Despite all of my research, I can't believe all of the near deal-breakers I didn't discover until I had it in-hand. Specifically, the lack of SD card access and wi-fi in Snapvue mode.
I could honestly live without Vista--I was just hoping for a WinMo device in this form factor (large touch screen) with the slide out keyboard. Having to swap my SIM card and/or live with the horrible battery life & performance under Vista is proving to be a pain in the rear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not try Windows 7 as a last ditch effort? The battery life improves, it isn't called Vista, it has a lighter feel to it, it isn't called Vista, and it is pleasantly surprising!
The upgrade was simple to do and the license is good for the next year
I've thought about Win 7 but it tanked badly on my tablet PC. I believe the touchscreen probs have been sorted for the shift. But there's no over coming the no wifi on windows mobile side, no SD card access.
You have an advantage so you'll know what I mean when I say about ahving a little unit you can take on the road that does 90% of the job of a laptop but runs for days. I travelled with the Advantage as my only "laptop" for weeks doing presentations and email etc all via 3G or when in airport lounges the wifi. 4 in 1 cable allowed access to all my pdf's docs, ppt's on a thumbdrive.
I want the Shift to be that unit. Run winmo 90% of the time without Vista running at all. Then if you need a full blown laptop you fire up vista and you're away. But I doubt it's going to get there anytime soon.
mactablet said:
I've thought about Win 7 but it tanked badly on my tablet PC. I believe the touchscreen probs have been sorted for the shift. But there's no over coming the no wifi on windows mobile side, no SD card access.
You have an advantage so you'll know what I mean when I say about ahving a little unit you can take on the road that does 90% of the job of a laptop but runs for days. I travelled with the Advantage as my only "laptop" for weeks doing presentations and email etc all via 3G or when in airport lounges the wifi. 4 in 1 cable allowed access to all my pdf's docs, ppt's on a thumbdrive.
I want the Shift to be that unit. Run winmo 90% of the time without Vista running at all. Then if you need a full blown laptop you fire up vista and you're away. But I doubt it's going to get there anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you mean.
The Advantage is great. I use it mostly like you just said. With the 4-in-1 and WM 90% of time. Then I use RemoteDesktopConnection via Wifi/3G to do some more PC based work. My only problem was I could not use it efficeintly so thats why I Opted for a Shift.
My wife and I like to travel and carrying 2 work laptops, plus the advantage is a bit crazy and airport security makes travelling harder. The Shift + Advantage is a good combo for us now. I agree I could not live with Shift alone, but it has come along way, the people here are making strides that no one else has been able to do.
I need WiFi and more memory on WM to use the programs I like better, but once SD card access is opened, you can have a 32 GB storage card for programs and that really nice big screen! (WiFi should be coming soon too, but with #g it is at least manageable for now. Storage is the biger issue)
BTW- W7 on shift is (in my opinion) much better than Vista. I love it. It works great, battery is much better, and I can't say enough good things about it. I'm also considering the 600MaH battery for Shift...that should give a real nice bat.life to the Shift on W7.
But, to each their own, everyone has thier own business/personal needs.
Also, you may want to look at HP TouchSmart tx2z series. I was looking at this as anther solution before the Shift and doing mobile internet via Expresscard slot & bluetooth . (Not cheaper, but close)
Hope that helps!
Bradaland said:
Why not try Windows 7 as a last ditch effort? The battery life improves, it isn't called Vista, it has a lighter feel to it, it isn't called Vista, and it is pleasantly surprising!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I did that a couple days ago (when the public RC was released) and it appears to be a device-saver. The Shift is 100% better with Win7 installed.