Related
How do you think HD will be playing HD videos? Remember the great deception that the Kaiser was.. and I still I'm not over it..
But If it is like my Diamond, will be superb!
However, the screen is bigger, and will require more from the hardware.
Here is a link for a video and in the last minute (8:40) where he runs CorePlayer and watches House.S05E01 - (will it be HDTV.XviD ??)
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-OT4wr_E5ZkQ/htc_touch_hd/R/efp_video
If someone could translate that part would be great.
Thanks
bigger screen does not need better hardware , its just bigger pixels that need better battery capacity
manuelcalavera said:
bigger screen does not need better hardware , its just bigger pixels that need better battery capacity
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not only bigger screen... its also bigger resolution (By 25%)...
If its another type of screen, it could even have better performance at less ennergy consumption
Great video tough i can't undestand that language either.
atomikpt said:
How do you think HD will be playing HD videos? Remember the great deception that the Kaiser was.. and I still I'm not over it..
But If it is like my Diamond, will be superb!
However, the screen is bigger, and will require more from the hardware.
Here is a link for a video and in the last minute (8:40) where he runs CorePlayer and watches House.S05E01 - (will it be HDTV.XviD ??)
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-OT4wr_E5ZkQ/htc_touch_hd/R/efp_video
If someone could translate that part would be great.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand what you mean.
the maximum of vids you can play (or lets say that the screen will show you) is ofcourse its own resolution. So you will not see real HD videos as this screen has not got a real HD resolution. But its own resolution is no problem for the CPU. Playing a movie with a bigger size, will just downscale the video to the resoultion of the HD but as there is more data to process, it may slow the CPU more down, depending of how big the movie is. but you would not want to play a 1080p video on this anyway as it would just use up huge amount of storage space, but doesn't look better. You will get the best and sharpest images if you convert your movies to the exact resolution of the screen.
Oh I understood your point, cause you probably use PocketDivXEncoder..
I was just comparing with HTC Kaiser.. On videos as well as other stuff, it sucked.
This is an important question.
That linked video showing house didn't look very smooth, i was hoping for better playback quality than that. Was it the HD, coreplayer orthe video conversion that made it stutter a little?
Does any one know of any other exmples of the HD video playback? HTC say that its makes it closer to watching the cinema on a mobile, is this statement going to be true?
donbronzi said:
This is an important question.
That linked video showing house didn't look very smooth, i was hoping for better playback quality than that. Was it the HD, coreplayer orthe video conversion that made it stutter a little?
Does any one know of any other exmples of the HD video playback? HTC say that its makes it closer to watching the cinema on a mobile, is this statement going to be true?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i cant imagine that the HD as any problem with videos. It often just highly depends on the play. Windows media play is crap in playing videos most of the time. But even my old Compaq Ipaq could play videos very smooth.
Some players are faster then others.
language is czech
I thought it was Czech!!
But can you translate that part?
I think that it isn't very fluid the streaming..
Sometimes we notice some delays.. On my Diamond I can see it too..
atomikpt said:
How do you think HD will be playing HD videos?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
to answer the original question, no it will not be able to play HD videos.
HD by definition is at least 720p, that's 720p or 1080p by today's market distribution, may be later on, there will be some weird resolution at 960p or something like that. but right now HD video are only available in 720p or 1080p
1. the video chip is not powerful enough to decode HD content,
2. windows mobile 6 doesn't support HD content
3. Touch HD only has screen resolution of 800x640, again far from HD
4. CPU isn't power enough to decode HD content (even a full desktop/laptop 500 MHz cpu isn't enough to decode, let alone a stripped down mobile cpu.)
im sure that this "HD" will have some serious problems on playing good resolution videos ...
man , qualcomm's 528 Mhz is the CPU of htc diamond, and they let that beast to have this heart on his chest ! its not fair
I might complain that the HD does not have a flash, or little base memory - but not being able to play HD video - come on guys, dream on
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=3fAROWXVQiw&feature=related
Look at 7 min, he shows a youtube movie wvga quality. It doesn't play very smooth either. Let's hope its because of a bad connection or something.
And lets not forget that the units floating around as preview units did carry unfinished ROM and early-stage drivers
Lucas0511 said:
I might complain that the HD does not have a flash, or little base memory - but not being able to play HD video - come on guys, dream on
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh i totally agree, i dont expect it to play HD videos, as long as it play good videos at a decent framerate. but i can see how the name is misleading some novice users to think it can play HD files.
buggybug0 said:
oh i totally agree, i dont expect it to play HD videos, as long as it play good videos at a decent framerate. but i can see how the name is misleading some novice users to think it can play HD files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it will play videos of its own resolution ofcourse, what are you thinking? i don't understand this topic. it has a 480*800 screen and will ofcourse be able to play videos at that size with no problem. and as i said before, even my 6 years old pocket pc could do so. and it woulkd make no sense if you would try to play a video with a higher resolution. as the screen will still only be able to show you 480*800 pixels. ofcourse, if you are talking about play real HD videos, than ofcourse i can tell you it may have probleems doing so. but it makes no sence even trying to do so.
So, take every video you have got and convert it to 480*800 and thats it.
ps: about the youtube video beeing a little choppy:
ofcourse it is, its a youtube video... and on that, it is beeing streamed!! from the net and for that, it runs very well. that has nothing to do with the cpu. its only streaming.
Raziel1 said:
it will play videos of its own resolution ofcourse, what are you thinking? i don't understand this topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am thinking of the OP's original question "can HD play HD videos" of course i understand the resolution of this phone and the video it will play.
so i dont know what you are thinking posting without reading the entire thread.
my post, which you quoted was wishing for playing good video at a decent frame rate. sure you can play videos on your 6 year old ppc, but try play, say a jet li movie on there, all his actions are a blur because the framerate isn't fast enough to capture all his kungfu actions. dido for sports videos. you understand now?
and if you are confused regarding why the OP want to watch and HD video on a non HD display, well i can tell you it is possible to put a video with higher resolution on a device which lower resolution display. it will just be upto that CPU to decode and shrink the video. suuurree, it doens't make sense, but it's do-able.. uptill a certain point (resolution), above which it will be too heavy and too much work for the CPU. and if you want to ask why, well i'm guessing 1. the OP was mislead by the phone's name Touch HD, 2. he may not have the time or software or doesn't want to reprocess the movies to 800x480.
and if you are still confused after reading all that.. well... ummm... LOL
Raziel1 said:
it will play videos of its own resolution ofcourse, what are you thinking? i don't understand this topic. it has a 480*800 screen and will ofcourse be able to play videos at that size with no problem. and as i said before, even my 6 years old pocket pc could do so. and it woulkd make no sense if you would try to play a video with a higher resolution. as the screen will still only be able to show you 480*800 pixels. ofcourse, if you are talking about play real HD videos, than ofcourse i can tell you it may have probleems doing so. but it makes no sence even trying to do so.
So, take every video you have got and convert it to 480*800 and thats it.
ps: about the youtube video beeing a little choppy:
ofcourse it is, its a youtube video... and on that, it is beeing streamed!! from the net and for that, it runs very well. that has nothing to do with the cpu. its only streaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aye but i'd love to seen a flawless WGVA streaming video....
Raziel1 said:
that has nothing to do with the cpu. its only streaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
technically i disagree, but from a practical standpoint, sure, i'll go with that. those net videos doesn't require much processing power to decode, very little load on cpu.
Raziel1 said:
it will play videos of its own resolution ofcourse, what are you thinking? i don't understand this topic. it has a 480*800 screen and will ofcourse be able to play videos at that size with no problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Traditionally speaking, all HTC devices have very poor video playback .
Till the latest batch of VGA Devices (Diamond and Touch Pro) which i have no access to and hence cannot comment upon, all previous VGA devices had problem playing back video ENCODED AT THERE NATIVE RESOLUTION. (for reference, have a look at this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=324371&highlight=video)
the best i could manage was a 532x300 xvid with a bitrate of 800-1200.
so it will be a very pleasant surprise if the HD can playback video encoded at 640x480 leave alone 800x480.
On a side note, since HD will be pretty similar to the Diamond / Touch Pro , you could probably ask your friends to run a benchmark with different resolutions and bitrates.
So here's my story:
I recently bought Samsung Omnia on which I did extensive tests on video playback
with CorePlayer 1.2.5 and TCPMP and with various video formats such as:
H264 Baseline 3 480x272 (originally encoded for playback in iPod Touch)
Various XviD encoded videos with resolutions varying from 640x360 to 720x400
Using DirectDraw as video output in both CorePlayer and TCPMP
the result was awful, dropped frames, awful motion and distorted colors.
However since the Omnia has the fastest CPU I know in WM Device so far,
the Marvell PXA312, 624MHz with IntelXScale acceleration,
the CorePlayer and TCPMP gives this as an option for video output the IntelXScale acceleration.
So when using this setting the video playback of any type of encoding was absolutely beautiful.
Colors were correct, performance was amazing (even in double playback speed) it was in general as smooth as it gets.
For a powerfull (hardware-wise) device such as omnia, I was very disappointed
in the resolution of the screen (240x400 - wqvga) and its size 2.8".
For this kind of device which has literally everything one would expect it
to have same screen size and resolution as the touch hd.
I rushed to buy this device I must admit and so I sold it to a friend after experimenting with it for one week.
The reason that I gave away so fast the Omnia was simply the Blackstone.
Since I am kind of perfectionist as far as it concerns screen resolutions, the touch hd is no match with any other phone/ppc device out there.
So here comes the real concern, how is the performance on video playback on the blackstone?
For a multimedia device like this one would expect that the performance
would be excellent (much like the omnia or even better if it can).
But what concerns me is the Qualcomm cpu at 528Mhz which as far as I can tell
doesn't have IntelXScale acceleration (plz correct me if i'm wrong on this)
So if it uses only DirectDraw and the results are crappy, then this would be such a turn off.
Can this CPU give a smooth video playback performance on a 640x360 XviD avi video
with "Smooth zoom: ON" and "Zoom: Fill Screen" settings on either CorePlayer or TCPMP?
And keep in mind that we are talking about realtime upsizing of the video to 800x480
which IMHO requires quite a lot of cpu power for such device.
Because really I am not willing to spend 700 euro on a multimedia phone
that can't actually perform well on multimedia.
I'd love to hear someone that has it and tested it on that matter.
Thanks for reading!
We really want to know the answer for your question, And I think that we have to wait until we see the phone on the market and get some benchmarks.
Also I think that SE in their xperia phone did what you are asking for ..! In the same beautiful screen resolution 800x480
Thank you,
Mohammed
mohdtmn said:
We really want to know the answer for your question, And I think that we have to wait until we see the phone on the market and get some benchmarks.
Also I think that SE in their xperia phone did what you are asking for ..! In the same beautiful screen resolution 800x480
Thank you,
Mohammed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More like SE said to HTC "We want an awesome phone, but we don't want you to tell us what's in it, and we'll just make Magnus make up stuff as we go, also we suck at marketing."
touch HD has a slower cpu, without xscale acceleration. but it has a dedicated graphics chip, which matters more in video play back. at the resolution you have mentioned, i have full confidence it will do just as well if not better than omnia.
buggybug0 said:
touch HD has a slower cpu, without xscale acceleration. but it has a dedicated graphics chip, which matters more in video play back. at the resolution you have mentioned, i have full confidence it will do just as well if not better than omnia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure hope so, because I would say I'm not so satisfied with the Touch Diamond performance. Let me explain:
Since this matter is really killing me, I need to be sure it can perform well on video (not extreme stuff, the standard-like video formats we all use).
So I decided to make a test, since i don't own a Touch Diamond (which has the same hardware), I went to a local retail store that had the device on display for ppl to see and experiment with, I installed coreplayer and sent a 40" 608x400 xvid video with ~900kbps bitrate to test it.
CorePlayer was set automatically with video mode QTv and with TytnII Driver mode enabled (which i suppose is the accelerator driver)
I made sure nothing else was running in the background and the results was not so ok. I was playing just ok, I noticed some frame skips and some "lag" in fast motion.
I just hope the Touch HD has revised hardware (if that's possible) and better drivers maybe?
I really would like to hear an answer from someone that has already his hands on the touch hd
buggybug0 said:
touch HD has a slower cpu, without xscale acceleration. but it has a dedicated graphics chip, which matters more in video play back. at the resolution you have mentioned, i have full confidence it will do just as well if not better than omnia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but htc is also notorious for not not allowing 3rd party software to use the graphic chip, that is when they do provide drivers for the chip
fallenczar said:
but htc is also notorious for not not allowing 3rd party software to use the graphic chip, that is when they do provide drivers for the chip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so are you saying if i were to install a 3rd party video player, when i try to play video, i will see a blank screen? because this player is 3rd party and can't access the graphic chip?? :S
buggybug0 said:
so are you saying if i were to install a 3rd party video player, when i try to play video, i will see a blank screen? because this player is 3rd party and can't access the graphic chip?? :S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, i'm saying that coreplayer/TCPMP will only be able to use the default qualcomm chip, its exactly like having a graphic card in your pc with no drivers and no in built support
Thats sux
I hope Touch HD has better driver ... because the hardware is the same.
Quite a downer ...
mkMoSs said:
I sure hope so, because I would say I'm not so satisfied with the Touch Diamond performance. Let me explain:
Since this matter is really killing me, I need to be sure it can perform well on video (not extreme stuff, the standard-like video formats we all use).
So I decided to make a test, since i don't own a Touch Diamond (which has the same hardware), I went to a local retail store that had the device on display for ppl to see and experiment with, I installed coreplayer and sent a 40" 608x400 xvid video with ~900kbps bitrate to test it.
CorePlayer was set automatically with video mode QTv and with TytnII Driver mode enabled (which i suppose is the accelerator driver)
I made sure nothing else was running in the background and the results was not so ok. I was playing just ok, I noticed some frame skips and some "lag" in fast motion.
I just hope the Touch HD has revised hardware (if that's possible) and better drivers maybe?
I really would like to hear an answer from someone that has already his hands on the touch hd
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fallenczar said:
No, i'm saying that coreplayer/TCPMP will only be able to use the default qualcomm chip, its exactly like having a graphic card in your pc with no drivers and no in built support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that is the case, then I dont understand it. I mean why HTC would go through all this trouble to have an extra graphics chip in their devices when no other than their own app could ever use? So they put a graphic chip with 3d capabilities and video acceleration for just their own apps like touchflo 3d ?
Isn't it just stupid?
Yes, that would be stupid. Fortunately though, there is quite some talk about the HD having an optimized chipset compared to the Diamond, even though this does not include the processor. It is already evident by the many movies that the device performs faster than the diamond even with the same processor, so I doubt you'd have exactly the same performance issues as with the diamond. Though there is only one way to be sure: wait 2 more weeks and everybody will own one.
nin2thevoid said:
.......... wait 2 more weeks and everybody will own one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hell...i cant agree with you more..almost everyone i know is either 'buying one' or 'Wants to buy one'....whatever happened to the times when there were a few geeks like me who went out and bought a winmo phone....whatever happened to the iphone??...lol
gauravdc said:
Hell...i cant agree with you more..almost everyone i know is either 'buying one' or 'Wants to buy one'....whatever happened to the times when there were a few geeks like me who went out and bought a winmo phone....whatever happened to the iphone??...lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone died, blackstone killed it
Blackstone is a killer... Woohoo.. We have to send it to prison!!.. I think I might have a good prison here at my home so my blackstone, come for punishment *roarr* lol
Coreplayer 1.3.0 is said to have major improvement with QTv rendering on MSM7201A/7200A. This was promised by them on their forum about a month ago.
Head over there and hurry them up! Those guys are reeaaaalllly slow, probably too busy working on Coreplayer for stupid iPhone.
wuzy said:
Coreplayer 1.3.0 is said to have major improvement with QTv rendering on MSM7201A/7200A. This was promised by them on their forum about a month ago.
Head over there and hurry them up! Those guys are reeaaaalllly slow, probably too busy working on Coreplayer for stupid iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, if I buy the current coreplayer-version from them, do I get a free update when the 1.3.0 will arrive? Or should I wait until it comes out? This would be the most important application for me on the Touch HD.. Greez, cad^^
wuzy said:
Coreplayer 1.3.0 is said to have major improvement with QTv rendering on MSM7201A/7200A. This was promised by them on their forum about a month ago.
Head over there and hurry them up! Those guys are reeaaaalllly slow, probably too busy working on Coreplayer for stupid iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fingers crossed!
They should just forget the iPhone, ppl will be finding out about blackstone and they will be throwing their iPhone from the window xD
I guess no problem with playing video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv9lLAVidgA&fmt=18
Thanks to johnkorver who own the device, create the video review, and upload it to youtube.
looks promising even though we don't have any other info on the video file except the codec used (xvid).. anyway upscaling works nice and that says much..
one more video playback demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo7I6K8U7L4
i have heard that qualcomm has the drivers or something to that effect, and wont release the info for programmers to take advantage of the graphics accelerator. the effect is i cant play simple videos, unless i run them through a program first to recode them
if that is the case, why would sony ericsson give them the contract, knowing this?
When do you think this problem may be cracked?
Why wouldnt sony ericsson include codecs in their media panel ( i understand this has video acceleration)
Although QTv is still not very well understood, CorePlayer can (and does) use it to accelerate video playback.
Leddy said:
Although QTv is still not very well understood, CorePlayer can (and does) use it to accelerate video playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i thought it didnt yet??
I don't know how they do it.. but coreplayer is 99.9% smooth !
only the really fast scenes in normal xvid sometimes drop a frame... but it's very acceptable.
as the others said keep an eye on the core player 2.0 release which is said to do better hardware decoding. its not bad now though .
dont know much about the details of qc driver mess as i am new here. but even if you have full proper access to the driver, applications needs to written to take advantage of the accelerated hardware to notice a performance increase.
Thanks for information
THE GRIZZ said:
as the others said keep an eye on the core player 2.0 release which is said to do better hardware decoding. its not bad now though .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is bad, real bad. My 3 years old Palm T5 plays movies 20% faster, at 100% (ie the same resolution). But then no WM device of X1 generation is any better. Faster devices only starts to appear (like new ASUS and Toshiba promised 1GHz device).
Dr.Sid said:
It is bad, real bad. My 3 years old Palm T5 plays movies 20% faster, at 100% (ie the same resolution). But then no WM device of X1 generation is any better. Faster devices only starts to appear (like new ASUS and Toshiba promised 1GHz device).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the T5 doesn't have to display all the extra pixels.
I say with no scaling .. so extra pixels should not count. I mean when the picture is small enough to fit on both displays at 100%.
When playing at fullscreen, Xperia is even slower, while not much ..
With null video the speed is more or less same. But even copying the image with no scaling seems to be slow on Xperia. On Palm 100% scale is only a bit slower then null video.
On the other hand Palm is slow at scaling. For Xperia (crystal player, qTV driver) scaling makes only little difference.
I only watch language lessons on Xperia, and only rarely. I don't need that to be perfectly fluent. And then, you can always convert the video, which should help.
I guess the reason is Palm T5 was really good at that time. The difference is it was just PDA. No wifi, no phone, no gps. It could have strong CPU. Communicators have to feed and cool all that, and they started with weaker CPUs (even communicators from Palm, or even models with WIFI (Tx) had slower CPU). Only last year communicators catch up with CPU power. But then there are many other things, like buss speed, display driver, OS support (Palm is quite simple OS).
The ultimate pocket movie player is just not here yet. T5 was a bit closer to it then Xperia (it also has bigger screen, worse colors on the other hand).
Anyone knows how is TouchHD in this aspect ?
read this
http://mobile-enthusiast.blogspot.com/2009/02/saga-of-htcs-video-performance.html
Good find ! That explains a lot. Only if I knew it earlier
Will there be issues on video playback like all other HTC devices ?
Will leo be able to play a not converted divx ?
firiel said:
Will there be issues on video playback like all other HTC devices ?
Will leo be able to play a not converted divx ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's able to play till 480p res. videos even no exist video acceleration or drivers... It's powered by brute cpu force with snapdragon to process vid. codecs IMO...
firiel said:
Will there be issues on video playback like all other HTC devices ?
Will leo be able to play a not converted divx ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not gonna worry about that. For Touch HD, I used Total Video Converter, I used Iphone H264 MP4 best settings and play in Windows Media Player, even in Touch HD it is smooth and stunning at full 800 X 480, only that scrolling through time frames or during video startup is sluggish. And for HD2, I believe the loading time will be shortened.
Playing high quality videos have been non issue with these HTC devices, you just need to do it right.
precsmo said:
Playing high quality videos have been non issue with these HTC devices, you just need to do it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't mind wasting time on conversion, that is.
From HTC website: Video supported formats: .wmv, .asf, .mp4, .3gp, .3g2, .m4v, .avi
Can't speak to quality because the phone isn't out. ;-)
Reason4444 said:
I think it's able to play till 480p res. videos even no exist video acceleration or drivers... It's powered by brute cpu force with snapdragon to process vid. codecs IMO...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which means that when a device from another manufacturer like samsung or acer grabs the snapdragon we will cry with the results, right ?
And dont have me even mention tegra
rebecker said:
From HTC website: Video supported formats: .wmv, .asf, .mp4, .3gp, .3g2, .m4v, .avi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Touch Diamond2 specs also mention .avi, but it's a half-truth. I use a Topaz ROM on my Touch HD and can't view regular DivX/XVid videos with anything built-in. Maybe the FullScreen Player from HTC Album (or Windows Media Player) here can play .avis with some weird codecs, but it's absolutely irrelevant to real-life scenarios.
vangrieg said:
Touch Diamond2 specs also mention .avi, but it's a half-truth. I use a Topaz ROM on my Touch HD and can't view regular DivX/XVid videos with anything built-in. Maybe the FullScreen Player from HTC Album (or Windows Media Player) here can play .avis with some weird codecs, but it's absolutely irrelevant to real-life scenarios.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've gone back to the stock rom on my hd, after an unfortunate incident with some muggers. But Coreplayer (ver 1.3.2) seems very adept at handling any native divx/xvid files
AshHD said:
I've gone back to the stock rom on my hd, after an unfortunate incident with some muggers. But Coreplayer (ver 1.3.2) seems very adept at handling any native divx/xvid files
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then we probably have very different HDs because mine reminds me of the era of 200MHz HTC devices. Playback of unconverted is jerky with visibly very low FPS, dynamic scenes are more like slideshows than films, even with 700MB rips, 1.4GB ones are even worse. This is not to mention that CorePlayer doesn't support AC3 audio which means that half of the movies I have are mute. If this is called being "very adept at handling" then I don't know what isn't.
Stock ROMs are exactly the same in terms of video performance, the reason why I mentioned Topaz ROM is simply because that device boasts .avi support, which it is in fact lacking. That said, ".avi support" is pretty much a meaningless phrase since .avi is just a wrapper, there could be a full zoo of codecs inside.
firiel said:
Which means that when a device from another manufacturer like samsung or acer grabs the snapdragon we will cry with the results, right ?
And dont have me even mention tegra
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In what way do you imagine that these devices will be superior to the HD2 when it comes to video playback? If the HD2 can play back video at full screen resolution (800x480) with no dropped frames at all and support any wrapper or codec you might want, how much better can any other device really get? That (most likely) is what the HD2 running Coreplayer will deliver.
The only time there's likely to be an issue is if you expect to play back a high-definition (e.g. 1280x720) video downscaled to the screen resolution in real time. But, even if it's only for reasons of storage space, you'd probably want to downscale any clips like that to 800x480 resolution anyway.
It's possible that other devices (the ones that can use GPU acceleration when playing xvid and divx stuff) will offer better battery-life during video playback, I guess, but I doubt it'll be that big a margin.
Shasarak, it's not clear how the downscaling will work performance-wise without GPU support, and CorePlayer doesn't support AC3 sound. Not that I need to listen to AC3 on a phone, but I certainly have movies with it. So at this moment CorePlayer is definitely a mediocre solution as far as I'm concerned.
Shasharak,
Am not arguing that the device hopefully might be able to play, by CPU power 480p, but what about HTC not delivering for once again, what our money worth.
If u search for comparisons of omnia and any htc 528 based model, you will see great differences on video playback. This is unacceptable from me.
And what about gaming or 3d accelerated apps. We are getting to a new age of handheld devices, that should be (MUST BE) able to deliver video, web, audio and entertainment. And should do it with all their power.
vangrieg said:
Shasarak, it's not clear how the downscaling will work performance-wise without GPU support, and CorePlayer doesn't support AC3 sound. Not that I need to listen to AC3 on a phone, but I certainly have movies with it. So at this moment CorePlayer is definitely a mediocre solution as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, as I say, I don't imagine anyone will want to downscale video on it anyway - HD video won't look any worse if it's downscaled off-line, and it will take up far less space on the memory card than the original HD file.
Coreplayer not supporting AC3 is a problem, I'll grant you. It's possible that Coreplayer version 2 will support it. If not, then you'll have to see if you can get TCPMP running on the Leo - I expect there will be a version that does.
firiel said:
Shasharak,
Am not arguing that the device hopefully might be able to play, by CPU power 480p, but what about HTC not delivering for once again, what our money worth.
If u search for comparisons of omnia and any htc 528 based model, you will see great differences on video playback. This is unacceptable from me.
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Yeah, but that's the point: you won't see those differences on the HD2. I own a Touch Pro2, so I understand how annoyed you are. But the difference with the HD2 is that the CPU is so powerful that it should be able to play back anything with a resolution of 800x480 or less without dropping any frames using the CPU alone - why would you care if it's using the CPU or the GPU if you can't see any difference in the playback? The Snapdragon CPU is nearly three times as powerful as the one in the TP2. Even without GPU acceleration it'll still work just fine.
firiel said:
And what about gaming or 3d accelerated apps. We are getting to a new age of handheld devices, that should be (MUST BE) able to deliver video, web, audio and entertainment. And should do it with all their power.
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Well, we know from existing benchmarks that the Leo will deliver hardware-accelerated OpenGL ES, so that's a good start. On some 3D benchmarks it's more than 20 times as fast as a TP2. (I doubt there will be any 3D-accelerated apps for Windows Mobile, anyway - otherwise people who own cheaper, slower WinMo phones will buy them and then complain they can't run them. WinMo apps tend to be written for low-end hardware.) Web should be fine - especially once we have a version of FlashPlayer 10.1 which will be in beta before the end of the year. I wouldn't worry.
Shasarak said:
Well, as I say, I don't imagine anyone will want to downscale video on it anyway - HD video won't look any worse if it's downscaled off-line, and it will take up far less space on the memory card than the original HD file.
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I, on the other hand, can't imagine why anyone would want to convert any videos to watch on the phone. I have a notebook with a 60GB SSD and some 1.16GHz processor - it's blazing fast for Office/internet use but it'll take forever to convert any videos. I also store files like videos on a network drive, so using the more powerful desktop is still slow. And I need to watch videos only occasionally - when going on a trip I can copy a movie or two to take with me on a plane. So space isn't a problem really while ability to watch unconverted video is.
In any case, there was a question you asked about how another device may be more powerful in video playback - I guess with proper driver support they can be, and there are use cases when this is important.
vangrieg said:
I, on the other hand, can't imagine why anyone would want to convert any videos to watch on the phone. I have a notebook with a 60GB SSD and some 1.16GHz processor - it's blazing fast for Office/internet use but it'll take forever to convert any videos. I also store files like videos on a network drive, so using the more powerful desktop is still slow. And I need to watch videos only occasionally - when going on a trip I can copy a movie or two to take with me on a plane. So space isn't a problem really while ability to watch unconverted video is.
In any case, there was a question you asked about how another device may be more powerful in video playback - I guess with proper driver support they can be, and there are use cases when this is important.
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As a TP2 owner with a slow desktop PC I feel your pain, I really do. I'm simply pointing out that the HD2 won't suffer from this problem to anywhere near the extent that current-generation HTC phones do. My best guess is that no video clip that runs at 800x480 or lower will require conversion; it's only ones in higher resolutions that will. And the chances are that even your netbook wouldn't be able to play a 720p video smoothly, so what use is it to store the videos in hi-def format in the first place? You might as well download a lower-res version.
If you end having to convert something very occasionally then just leave it running on your desktop PC overnight - it's not that big a deal.
The key difference, here, is that a TP2 can't even get close to playing a 624x351 xvid clip without conversion, while the HD2 will play it perfectly. It'll play anything other than high definition clips perfectly without conversion - so there is exactly one use-case where GPU acceleration is relevant, and it's not an important one.
Shasarak said:
I'm simply pointing out that the HD2 won't suffer from this problem to anywhere near the extent that current-generation HTC phones do.
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This is most certainly true. I still bought HD even though I knew about these problems, but it's still an annoyance. HD2 will be better for sure.
Shasarak said:
And the chances are that even your netbook wouldn't be able to play a 720p video smoothly,
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It's not a netbook, it's a "real" notebook, Thinkpad X300, but anyway - I don't watch movies on my computers - I use a network media server and a network player, they are streamed to my TV. So my phone is the only computer-like device that needs to be able to play videos, actually.
Shasarak said:
so what use is it to store the videos in hi-def format in the first place? You might as well download a lower-res version.
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In fact, I try to avoid downloading HD videos whenever I can as I don't care for viewing them in high resolutions even though I have a large Full HD TV. The problem is only that low-res versions aren't always available, and increasingly so. It's not my preference but rather an unfortunate trend.
So you think that the snapdragon "RAW" is enough. Enough for what ? There are no limits for what to expect.
Should HTC, continue to ignore what GPU means, we should not. once again accept it It was like 2 years ago when I complained about my TC performance, without getting any answer. And now Samsung, on their first winmo device (omnia), has really better results, using the same processor. There will be tons of snapdragon devices, or even tegra powered (hopefully) soon enough.
If Qualcomm refuses to give the guys who write CorePlayer access to their intellectual property, that isn't altogether HTC's fault. Any software actually written by HTC does use GPU acceleration - there's a limit to the extent that they can be held responsible for the deficiencies of third party software.
firiel said:
So you think that the snapdragon "RAW" is enough. Enough for what ? There are no limits for what to expect.
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I set down very precise limits in my prediction: CPU-only video decoding will (IMO) be adequate for all videos with a resolution of 800x480 or lower. Any video with higher resolution may require transcoding - but it obviously couldn't look any better than an 800x480 video if it's being played back on an 800x480 screen.
firiel said:
Should HTC, continue to ignore what GPU means, we should not. once again accept it
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And how exactly should we "not accept it"? I am also pissed off at HTC, but I don't think we can do anything except buying something else, but there are also reasons not to (all of them very individual).
Shasarak said:
If Qualcomm refuses to give the guys who write CorePlayer access to their intellectual property, that isn't altogether HTC's fault.
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True, with a BUT: they (HTC) could enable their software to play real-life video formats. Samsung's Touch Player does that. And a smaller "but": they could also provide generic driver that would provide DirectX/OpenGL interfaces for Qualcomm's quirky technologies. Both options would cost them money I guess, so they chose not to.
I found that quite a number of people online were critical about Xperia PLAY, so I decided to write this to drive away the misconceptions!
There are several reasons why Xperia PLAY is the perfect gaming and multimedia smartphone, as given below:
1. Advantages of Snapdragon SoC (Scorpion Processor and Adreno GPU):
Xperia Play has a single-core 1GHz Snapdragon processor and an Adreno 205 GPU, however this doesn't put it behind the other SoC's out there (explained below)
Many people believe Adreno to be weaker than NVIDIA Tegra2 or PowerVR, but that isn't the case!
The truth is that the latter two seem good on paper and benchmarks, but their practical performance isn't up to the mark.
i. Adreno GPU is efficient and powerful:
Game developers find Adreno a better GPU when it comes to complex game effects. It handles them in a faster, better and power efficient way.
ii. Adreno is friendly to the battery:
Consider NVIDIA's Tegra2 GPU, which requires a heavy dependance on the CPU for it's optimal performance, and that reduces it's battery efficiency.
Follow the link in Techdread's thread to find a thorough comparison from Game developers' point of view.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1243036
iii. Snapdragon SoC has hidden tricks up it's sleeve
Adreno GPU and Scorpion CPU has some really cool optimizations up it's sleeve, which makes it better in most tasks than the other options.
e.g. Adreno has support for Hardware acceleration in Flash content. In a video test result, Snapdragon on Xperia Arc played a 720p Youtube video perfectly, whereas other major dual-core devices lagged!
See video below:
http://phandroid.com/2011/06/15/qua...re-tegra-2-for-flash-content-supremecy-video/
Paul Jacobs, Qualcomm's boss says that Single core snapdragon with latest drivers outperform the current dual core processors.
"Looking at benchmarking tests for our single core product, it outperforms against dual core products from our competitors,’ said Jacbos.
He added: ‘The performance that you can get is literally much more than just counting the number of cores on a chip - it about how these cores work together seamlessly and efficiently. Compared to our competitors' [dual-core chips] they use 50 to 75 per cent more power to deliver the same perfomace compared to our single-core CPUs.’
iv. Snapdragon has DEVELOPER SUPPORT
Snapdragon is widely being supported by developers and alot of games for it are being made.
What hardware advantage does any SoC give the device if it has little developer support??
How many times have you seen these words on game threads: Make this for SGS2 please!!
v. Xperia series has the latest drivers for Snapdragon and Adreno, getting the most out of them.
(vi. BONUS : Custom kernel from DoomLord can boost the already-so-efficient CPU to 1.9 GHz B-) )
2. Dual-Channel RAM:
Xperia Play is the currently the only device that possesses a dual channel DDR2 memory working at 300 Hertz. This increases the performance as data can be passed much faster between components such as the CPU and the GPU, and enables it to perform heavy duty tasks optimally, and to keep a constant 60fps refresh rate in games.
3. PlayStation Controls:
Of course everyone knows what this is about
The physical controls are of great advantage in gaming for obvious reasons.
The virtual analog controls got mixed reviews, however they are awesome in my opinion. I always find myself using them rather than the buttons.
Moreover, they can also be used for key mapping in emulators, giving a great plus value!
4. Havok Game Engine:
Don't miss out this beast!
Havok game engine has debuted on Android via Xperia Play. This helps developers make great games with accurate physics and realism!
About Havok:
Havok™, an Intel® company , was founded in Dublin, Ireland in 1998, and is the premier provider of interactive software and services for digital media creators in the games and movie industries. Havok works in partnership with the world ’s best
known game developers, including Microsoft®, Nintendo®, and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Havok’ s cross- platform, professionally supported technology is available for the Xbox 360™ video game and entertainment system, PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system, PSP® (PlayStation ®Portable), Xperia™ PLAY, Wii™, PC Games for Windows.
Havok’s combination of superior technology and dedication to delivering for its customers has led to the company’ s technologies being used in over 300 of the world’ s best known game titles, including Halo Reach, Assassin’ s Creed Brotherhood, Epic Mickey, Fallout New Vegas, Uncharted 2 , Demon’s Soul and Bioshock 2 . A further 130 games are in development. Havok products have also been used to drive special effects in movies such as Clash of the Titans, Watchmen, Quantum of Solace, Harry Potter and The Order of The Phoenix, and The Matrix. Havok has offices in Dublin, San Francisco , Copenhagen, Calcutta, Munich, and Tokyo.
5. 3d Stereo speakers with xLoud
Gaming isn't fun without good sound effects. Many people entirely depend on their headsets for gaming and multimedia, due to the lack of good speakers in the phone.
Xperia Play's speakers, especially after the xLoud update, are AWESOME. You wouldn't need to depend on your headsets for gaming anymore, the speakers really take care of all!
They are also perfect for watching movies or listening to songs.
6. Xperia PLAY exclusives and game library
Sony Ericsson has made deals with a great number of game companies, including Gameloft, EA, Glu and Polarbit. A great number of games are out in no time at all, and more are on their way.
Often, Xperia Play gets the game a month or two earlier than the other Android models.
Xperia Play also has PlayStation titles coming to it, and Sony Ericsson recently announced more AAA titles to be on their way.
Xperia Play's massive game library is much larger than Tegra's.
7. Sony Ericsson's multimedia and entertainment experience:
Sony Ericsson provides a unique, unparalleled experience in multimedia and entertainment fields. It has got a great deal of experience from Cybershot and Walkman products, and has always been ahead of the other brands in these categories.
Xperia PLAY, with it's awesome sound quality and a decent camera reflects these results. The camera, though not SE's best, is still decent overall and faster than the other Android models.
I have the experience of developing top camdrivers for SE's cybershot series, and find that Xperia Play's camera is pretty decent.
Other SE goodies like TimeScape, Facebook inside Xperia etc. are also great if you use them.
____
This is enough to prove that Xperia PLAY really is what it's supposed to be - the perfect gaming and multimedia smartphone!
Imo people were disappointed because in the initial release it was laggy and it took alot of time to boot. And alot of features missing like 5MP HD or no zoom.
Hackers fixed that of course.
Sent from my Xperia PLAY R800i using XDA App
If I was on any other phone I would only be playing angry birds because I hate touch screen controllers that take up precious screen realestate..
Xperia Play <3
Sent from my R800i using xda premium
Cat_On_Droid said:
Imo people were disappointed because in the initial release it was laggy and it took alot of time to boot. And alot of features missing like 5MP HD or no zoom.
Hackers fixed that of course.
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Well it wasn't laggy and didn't boot up slower than Galaxy and other models out there.
People were mostly annoyed with the lack of a dual core chipset, claiming that better ones were out there. That's what most reviewers said. But in reality, there is much more to the Xperia than meets the eye
subcu1ture said:
If I was on any other phone I would only be playing angry birds because I hate touch screen controllers that take up precious screen realestate..
Xperia Play <3
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Agreed!
One inch or more of the screen is accounted for when using touchscreen controls.
Xperia Play's controls give a big-screen experience!
hasaan6545 said:
Well it wasn't laggy and didn't boot up slower than Galaxy and other models out there.
People were mostly annoyed with the lack of a dual core chipset, claiming that better ones were out there. That's what most reviewers said. But in reality, there is much more to the Xperia than meets the eye
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No not at all. Like cat said, when the play was first released. Alot of the disapointment came from bad firmware and a lack of support from sony game wise. I don't know any1 that was disapointed in the H/W. We all knew that the scorpion chipset and adreno 205 was a good match for any mobile CPU/GPU combo on the market ATM!
hasaan6545 said:
e.g. Adreno has support for Hardware acceleration in Flash content. In a video test result, Snapdragon on Xperia Arc played a 720p Youtube video perfectly, whereas other major dual-core devices lagged!
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Er... from the video i dont see how the xperia arc was playing 720p video smoothly? If anything it was choppy as hell. It was the HTC incredible that pulled off a smooth run. Do explain.
2ndly can the xperia play play a 720p video smoothly? If yes which format? mkv? avi ? mp4?
- Best gaming device.
Yes. The controls make the difference.
- Best ultimedia device.
Lol no. Where's the video output (remember that near ALL Xperias have HDMI output)? Where's the HD video recording? Where's the native support for more advanced video formats like MKV? Etc.
lcw1980 said:
Er... from the video i dont see how the xperia arc was playing 720p video smoothly? If anything it was choppy as hell. It was the HTC incredible that pulled off a smooth run. Do explain.
2ndly can the xperia play play a 720p video smoothly? If yes which format? mkv? avi ? mp4?
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play can play 720p in any format easly .....
Miles Wolf said:
- Best gaming device.
Yes. The controls make the difference.
- Best ultimedia device.
Lol no. Where's the video output (remember that near ALL Xperias have HDMI output)? Where's the HD video recording? Where's the native support for more advanced video formats like MKV? Etc.
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The play has native support for quicktime formats....
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3775
AndroHero said:
No not at all. Like cat said, when the play was first released. Alot of the disapointment came from bad firmware and a lack of support from sony game wise. I don't know any1 that was disapointed in the H/W. We all knew that the scorpion chipset and adreno 205 was a good match for any mobile CPU/GPU combo on the market ATM!
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Well i was talking about most reviewers like CNET etc, they had a go at the processor and GPU.
lcw1980 said:
Er... from the video i dont see how the xperia arc was playing 720p video smoothly? If anything it was choppy as hell. It was the HTC incredible that pulled off a smooth run. Do explain.
2ndly can the xperia play play a 720p video smoothly? If yes which format? mkv? avi ? mp4?
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Take a look at the blogpost and the video again and you'll get the point.
The video whose link i posted does not have Xperia Arc, it has HTC Incredible which has the same chipset as the Arc, and it performed better than the other dual core ones.
The video Qualcomm posted at their official site had Xperia Arc, and there they claimed the same thing.
Anyway, Xperia Play can play 720p perfectly for almost all formats, best being mp4, mov etc. Others can also be played well if you've a decent video player. MX Video Player (optimized for ARM Neon processors) and Vital Player work best. Try them, you'll like it
Miles Wolf said:
- Best gaming device.
Yes. The controls make the difference.
- Best ultimedia device.
Lol no. Where's the video output (remember that near ALL Xperias have HDMI output)? Where's the HD video recording? Where's the native support for more advanced video formats like MKV? Etc.
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I agree on the TV out stuff, but apart from that, Xperia Play is great. Mkv native support isn't much needed, it works perfect with fast Software Codec. Try MX Video player.
Besides, Xperia has great display and stereo sound quality which most others lack. and you can still view your media files on Bravia TV via Wifi.
With a bunch of plus points, it does make up for the few limitations that it has, and it's a great multimedia package overall!
AndroHero said:
play can play 720p in any format easly .....
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Really? I own one and cant get it to play 720p video files smoothly. Esp mkv formats.
Pray tell me which player you use?
I see no connection with xperia play in the apple website you posted?
lcw1980 said:
Really? I own one and cant get it to play 720p video files smoothly. Esp mkv formats.
Pray tell me which player you use?
I see no connection with xperia play in the apple website you posted?
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i use mobo player is awesome Look on the back of the box, it says it a quickime cerified device. That website just shows quicktime compatable formats
AndroHero said:
i use mobo player is awesome Look on the back of the box, it says it a quickime cerified device. That website just shows quicktime compatable formats
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i use moboplayer too but even 720p mkv anime playback is laggy. I even downloaded the arm7 codec already. any tips?
lcw1980 said:
i use moboplayer too but even 720p mkv anime playback is laggy. I even downloaded the arm7 codec already. any tips?
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when your on the main screen, go into setting and set it to software render mode
AndroHero said:
when your on the main screen, go into setting and set it to software render mode
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hmm still have audio sync issues.
Strange, I watch at least 1 720p file a week. Never had a problem with Mobo. I haven't download any extra add ons just the main app. What file types are you using?
Sent from my R800i using XDA App
Blue ray quality rmvb format lags for me but it plays other HD files fine
Sent from my XPlay using XDA App.
kupo5131 said:
Strange, I watch at least 1 720p file a week. Never had a problem with Mobo. I haven't download any extra add ons just the main app. What file types are you using?
Sent from my R800i using XDA App
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mkv file h264 encoded.
Miles Wolf said:
- Best ultimedia device.
Lol no. Where's the video output (remember that near ALL Xperias have HDMI output)? Where's the HD video recording? Where's the native support for more advanced video formats like MKV? Etc.
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Those are pretty lame points. I would have gone with SAMOLED Screen, but meh.
How often really, have you or would you plug in your phone to your tv? I have a freakin computer, ps3, wii, and digital cable connected already, why on earth would I need my phone on there as well?
HD recording would be nice, but it's nothing tragic. And it's not like it's technically impossible.
Otherwise, I agree with the OP. The screen while not the very best out there, it's still pretty damn nice. The speakers is what really makes it, I can't think of a single phone out there that even steps close to the Play in this respect. I never wear headphones with this thing, because it sounds great! Be it NES, PSX, Music, Videos, anything, it has high frequency response which means full sound, plenty of amplification, very little distortion at high volumes, and because there's two of them, you get stereo sound.
When I hear multimedia, I think picture and sound. Even though the screen isn't the best it makes up for that in the audio department. It's definitely up there in the multimedia department.
hasaan6545 said:
Besides, Xperia has great display
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Meh, no. It has a lot of ghosting.
The Xplay is a good device, but please, don't say it's the best Multimedia device.