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Dear Eris Users who Are Waiting for Root,
I'd like to start by addressing all of you as a large audience. I may ask certain groups to leave. I hope they will respect that wish and then come back and join the larger group when I am done with each piece.
We all got the Droid Eris from Verizon. We all got it for different reasons. A lot of you, if not all of you, are here because you wanted an HTC phone that was rooted. You wanted the custom roms, the themes, the su privileges. This shining aura that was "root" was so appealing, that you took a plunge and bought the device before any work was really done on that. Now, some of you feel that you should receive, neigh, deserve root. I am so saddened by what this community, Eris users, not XDA, has turned into. The disbelievers, the demanders; what are you still doing here, complaining? Just leave if you have something mean to say.
To everyone: I'm a firm believer in the idea that if you don't have something important, information wise/helpful, to say on the forum, then don't post at all. I try to keep my fingers off the keyboard, and I have for a long time, but I cannot hold my silence. I used to post every day. I used to be excited to get onto XDA and see if something new had happened while I was away. When we got our own section of the forum, I was overjoyed! (Not really, but we needed a section) We had a pristine new subforum to play around in, and we trashed it. Our original root thread had to be closed because of how off topic and ridiculous it was. Our new thread has gone to crap and turned more into a flame war, than a place where we are looking for exploits and posting findings. Sadly, I wouldn't blame XDA for shutting that one down too. We, as a whole, have alienated developers and are now in danger of not getting root for a number of reasons.
No one deserves root, just like no one deserves $20 from a random stranger. Sure, it'd be nice to get it, but no one deserves it. We should all be thankful for the man hours that people have put in, for no money, to try and give us $20 a piece... I mean root this thing. Seriously, it's a community, not a business. Also, those who feel like it's not worth it to wait around, just leave. Don't make an exit if you're sitting around and not helping but you feel the need to announce that you are fed up, or tired of it. Root will come eventually. There has yet to be an android phone that hasn't been hacked, and we will not be the first one.
Lastly, I'm tired of the "HTC NEEDS to release the source code because it's our right to have it" argument. Sure, the source would help, but the iPhone has been hacked again and again and again with no source code. It comes down to good developers, and a thankful community. So, please stop riding that bandwagon. The source code will get here eventually, but you have to be patient.
To those of you who have been helpful: Thank you. To anyone who tried an exploit and posted findings, thank you. To anyone who compiled an exploit, who dumped their phone, who offered help, incite, or even a "keep it up", thank you. That's what a good hacking community does.
To Jmanly, Binny, Zifnab, rigamrts and others: Thank you for everything you've done to help us out. You are all a tribute to being a good forum member. We would not even be a fraction of where we are without Jmanly's guidance and it was sad to see him leave.
Where to go from here: I think we need to restart. Create a new thread where no negative talk will occur, people will only post things that help move us forward and people post their thanks to those who are doing all of us a favor. None of us deserve root. It's not owed to us because we got the phone. We should all be thankful for what some people with the know-how are doing for us. That should be all I have to say. I hope we can change a little bit for the better and maybe we can get back to trying to root.
-Video
Well said!
This is well put.
I can never quite understand the flaming or negative stuff.
I learned when I started out in WinMo Xperia Threads that people hassling or acting "Entitled" while you are working hard on a Mod or Rom or anything can be quite disheartening.
If it can be agreed upon, I would like to open a new thread, for root status and updates. (hopefully for the last time)
Or I can just add it to the bounty thread that is already open (I know and understand that most of us do this for the love of hacking and modding and out of a sense of community, but it is also a nice gesture and could really help someone that devotes time and effort to this)???
I would monitor it constantly and report any flaming and abuse to one of our great moderators immediatley.
What do you think?
here's how i felt when i first got my eris.
i was like great now i can see what's up and possibly help get root for the new addopters cause i did not get my g1 durring the first run. i missed out on the fun times of all the posts of people trying to hack the phone.
so when i first landed in the eris waters it was great the late night whiteboard sessions were fun throwing any idea no matter how idiotic it sounded and going to town. then we had our first 2 casualties jman and me cause some one took it apon himself to attack a guy who didn't even have our phone and was willing to help.
then we had today where that same person took it on himself to flame another dev the same way. now the 7 day ban might calm him down or send the message not to come back. but i thought it sould have been a perma-ban cause of past actions plus the disrespecting of a mod which is a no no. that mod i respect cause he acted profesionally and gave the community hope that this type of behavior will not be tollorated.
hopefully if things keep going in a positive direction i might jump back into fold but feel very heartbroken cause of the few bad apples.
Awesome post
as acid said, very well put.
i too never understood why not just in the "eris" section but yet in any section people have demanded such items to be released.
I agree with rigamrts, I have watched this board with aw in some of the things people have said to one another. If I had root to this phone I would P.M. the members I wanted to have it just to keep out the ones that act childish. But then wouldn't I be just as childish? So I would just stop, Do my own thing, and wait as a few of the people here have done. People with no interest in this device have nothing to lose by leaving besides maybe hearing their friend saying "come on man, come back. We won't let that happen again." Its a shame this happened in our community but as with the physical community I live in there are jerks. People that you wish would leave on their own accord but stick around with T.P. stuck to their shoes looking like idiots. Anyways, thanks for the help, keep working, and feel free to leave if things get retarded again. I would do the same.
I think it would be cool if everyone who was interested in CONTRIBUTING to the root, whether that be via coding, finding exploits, packing these things/making user friendly tutorials, could form, basically, a Dev team. They/we could have a blog, a place where they/we can get together and chat amongst ourselves about ideas and whatever. Hopefully, then, we could have a more concrete group of people WORKING TOGETHER to achieve this one goal.
If any of the people working on root are down for it, let's make it happen. Cool? Cool. Cool? Cool.
Videofolife13 said:
I think it would be cool if everyone who was interested in CONTRIBUTING to the root, whether that be via coding, finding exploits, packing these things/making user friendly tutorials, could form, basically, a Dev team. They/we could have a blog, a place where they/we can get together and chat amongst ourselves about ideas and whatever. Hopefully, then, we could have a more concrete group of people WORKING TOGETHER to achieve this one goal.
If any of the people working on root are down for it, let's make it happen. Cool? Cool. Cool? Cool.
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i could create a bolg on one of my unused email account
I think that moving the thread to the new one should work..
We have a couple of moderators all over this now..
And I can update everyday
I need you guys to update me on what to put im the 1st post so that we can get back on track
I think the blog is a great idea but the thing is we also need to keep the discussion here at XDA, the place that originally got us together. If we don't keep the support here we won't have a well known place to meet new Eris users that could potentially help. We can't do that because of one bad apple, this Is our meeting place and we need to show XDA the respect by continuing to trust their mods to do their jobs. Ya that guy should have been permanently banned but he wasn't so let's not punish XDA for that decision. My two pennies.
I agree that we need to hang out at XDA, but I also feel that we could move to somewhere where we can bounce around ideas without people hijacking threads or starting flame wars. I'm not trying to keep people in the dark, I just want to try a different place. Oh, and I'd like some people who know what they're doing to sign on. I'm just a visionary, I can't code. Haha
Ok guys here is the deal after what happend today I am a little upset I spend hours each day searching the web for exploits, why... to help. Here is what I may do, I might buy some webspace and set up a area for us to work together on. I am going to see if Jman will will join us, this is just a idea for right now. I will let you guys know when I clear my head.
Aren't there free blogs? Let's not throw money at this quite yet.
Oh, and I'm sorry you got upset with some people and also that I haven't been here in, well, a month or more. I thought the community was going stagnate. I'm here to stay and, like you, I'll be scrounging for exploits and doing my best to help those with the know-how by doing the leg work if they do the real work.
Free yes but I would like some were were we can upload files to and what not. Just a idea for right now.
Clear ur head man...take care
When ya come back.head over to the new no flaming thread
Videofolife13 said:
Aren't there free blogs? Let's not throw money at this quite yet.
Oh, and I'm sorry you got upset with some people and also that I haven't been here in, well, a month or more. I thought the community was going stagnate. I'm here to stay and, like you, I'll be scrounging for exploits and doing my best to help those with the know-how by doing the leg work if they do the real work.
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rigamrts.blogspot.com
just set up one for us.
Videofolife13 said:
I think it would be cool if everyone who was interested in CONTRIBUTING to the root, whether that be via coding, finding exploits, packing these things/making user friendly tutorials, could form, basically, a Dev team. They/we could have a blog, a place where they/we can get together and chat amongst ourselves about ideas and whatever. Hopefully, then, we could have a more concrete group of people WORKING TOGETHER to achieve this one goal.
If any of the people working on root are down for it, let's make it happen. Cool? Cool. Cool? Cool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I have the pro programs for Mac and Windows to make killer video tuts, so once we have this thing rooted, I can get that out of the way.
Oh and I can host web space for you too on my server, I just don't have any domains to run the site on. You could use your ways to get a domain. (Try shorturl.com that's what I use for most of my websites.)
Questions to [email protected].
CPCookieMan said:
Well I have the pro programs for Mac and Windows to make killer video tuts, so once we have this thing rooted, I can get that out of the way.
Oh and I can host web space for you too on my server, I just don't have any domains to run the site on. You could use your ways to get a domain. (Try shorturl.com that's what I use for most of my websites.)
Questions to [email protected].
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Click to collapse
Good Stuff Cookie...
Come over to the new thread an help us out
Its in my sig...
No one deserves root, just like no one deserves $20 from a random stranger. Sure, it'd be nice to get it, but no one deserves it. We should all be thankful for the man hours that people have put in, for no money, to try and give us $20 a piece... I mean root this thing. Seriously, it's a community, not a business.
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Video I can agree where you are comming from, it does suck the fun out of the puzzle of rooting the device with all the flaming and demanding. But on the other side where I am, I am not a programmer or a linux genius. So we almost feel like leechers taking your work with out compensation for it. So the Pool for the dev that roots the Eris is our attempt to do our part in the give take relationship we have in this community.
Sure I could spend hours and hours and hope to get where you guys are or I can offer my monitary thanks for all your work.
I am not trying to point this thread in the wrong direction and I don't want to see a bunch of "I agree" replies. Just want to convey our side, the noobs and amatures that can't do the things that you do.
I am waiting patiently and if there is anything we the non-dev's can do let us know.
binny1007 said:
Free yes but I would like some were were we can upload files to and what not. Just a idea for right now.
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I have my own web server that we can use. Let me know if you want to set something up.
would a google wave account work i have invites?
mikechannon said:
"In general "I hate my phone" threads neither contribute soluactions to problems nor do they seek answers to problems in a calm and reasoned way.
These forums are for the giving and receiving of information that assists users to get the best from their device - it is not a vehicle for "sounding-off" about your phone.
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
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Ok .... so, the fact that we know HTC pay attention to people gripes, comments and compliments on these forums.... if that had been a "we love HTC thread" would that have been closed?
I agree being rude and obnoxious are very good reasons but ... why not censor the very few posts related to it. Why close the general dissastifaction with what appears to be a typical HTC release. Without a place to talk about the general failure of HTC, how can the majority of people learn? How can those prospective customers be aware of the challenges they need to overcome to turn a rubbish device (out of the factory) into a great device (after XDA and chefs)?
mikechannon said:
(In addition - this thread has been reported by Members)
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And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
The one thing i've always used in years is the xda forums and some of that i haven't even owned a HTC device. Like it or not, most people here have invested a lot of hard earned cash (or will over the next 18/24 months) and that will naturaly attract an emotional value - hence some anger when something like this doesn't work. The fact there was so much feeling in that thread should indicate the level of "emotion" about it and the incensed feeling they have about the amount people feel they have spent, money and time, on a device they are so unhappy about. Maybe if you guys created a "vent here thread" you might get to allow people to rant AND get usefull threads - heck, even HTC might read the "vent here thread!" and take note?
I'm so worried after reading todays threads in particular, about ordering mine earlier today but sadly nothing else that supports FULL exchange meets my requirements. I know my consumer rights and will use them to the full should I need to but I hope not it does have so many great points.
Monty Burns said:
Ok .... so, the fact that we know HTC pay attention to people gripes, comments and compliments on these forums....
We don't know that for sure. There are many on here who would disagree, saying that for them, if HTC were listening, then perceived problems would have been resolved quicker.
I agree being rude and obnoxious are very good reasons but ... why not censor the very few posts related to it. Why close the general dissatisfaction with what appears to be a typical HTC release. Without a place to talk about the general failure of HTC, how can the majority of people learn? How can those prospective customers be aware of the challenges they need to overcome to turn a rubbish device (out of the factory) into a great device (after XDA and chefs)?
Problem with this argument is that there are some on here who don't wish to face those challenges, which is fair enough. However what they do is to gripe about it and not help themselves, even when you point them in the right direction.
And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
Not sure where you get that from. Please provide evidence of this or retract.
The one thing i've always used in years is the xda forums and some of that i haven't even owned a HTC device. Like it or not, most people here have invested a lot of hard earned cash (or will over the next 18/24 months) and that will naturally attract an emotional value - hence some anger when something like this doesn't work. The fact there was so much feeling in that thread should indicate the level of "emotion" about it and the incensed feeling they have about the amount people feel they have spent, money and time, on a device they are so unhappy about. Maybe if you guys created a "vent here thread" you might get to allow people to rant AND get useful threads - heck, even HTC might read the "vent here thread!" and take note?
Any "ranting", as you put it, should be made direct to HTC. XDA-Developers is exactly that; a developers site with a lot of interested non-developers in it. Its not the place to take out your frustrations against a manufacturer.
Re your point on hard earned cash being spent, I can't disagree with this. However ask these people how many of them went out and gave the device a really good test drive and an assessment of whether it would meet their needs or not and you will be silenced by the response.
I'm so worried after reading todays threads in particular, about ordering mine earlier today but sadly nothing else that supports FULL exchange meets my requirements. I know my consumer rights and will use them to the full should I need to but I hope not it does have so many great points.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have doubts about this device then don't buy it. You will be severely disappointed. If you have not taken time out to test drive one before putting your order in then, with respect, more fool you.
Finally, moderators on here bend over backwards NOT to close threads or be seen as censoring debate. However we have to keep a balance and if, in our judgment, a thread is getting out of hand or no longer has any value nor serve any useful purpose then it will be closed.
All the best,
WB
as you've quoted inside of quotes you have made it really dificult for me to "quote" back - nice job! (although i suspect not deliberate).
"We don't know that for sure. There are many on here who would disagree, saying that for them, if HTC were listening, then perceived problems would have been resolved quicker."
Yeah ok. So the very big majority of Winmob market phones are produced by HTC, this site is dedicated to HTC (and historicaly Winmob).... do you REALLY think they don't read these forums? Really? Honestly? Are you sure?
"Problem with this argument is that there are some on here who don't wish to face those challenges, which is fair enough. However what they do is to gripe about it and not help themselves, even when you point them in the right direction."
I agree. There are SOME who want to gripe. There are a ship load more who want to make a device work but can't, no matter the support they get from the community - random users suffering from the SMS bug for example? The very fact most of these people have googled/have knowledge of these forums, means that they have at least gone to some effort to resolve an issue. So yes some, but a VERY small number. So, how can they air the frustrations they have? where? Maybe the most expansive and read HTC forums... thats a good place to start!
"And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
Not sure where you get that from. Please provide evidence of this or retract."
*sigh* .... ok .... i'll come back to this but, i did quote, if you really want me to link to a thread closed in the past 10 minutes other than i already quoted your mod. I will.
"Any "ranting", as you put it, should be made direct to HTC. XDA-Developers is exactly that; a developers site with a lot of interested non-developers in it. Its not the place to take out your frustrations against a manufacturer."
Yeah ya know, it was a developers site years ago.... its not any more and hasn't been for a long time. Its a cookers and users site now. If you still think HTC don't read this forum then .... The sites success over the years can also be its greatest strength if you let it.
Now this isn't a problem of the site itself, more one with many reviews and fanboys of ALL phones, Iphone, HTC, Nokia....
"Re your point on hard earned cash being spent, I can't disagree with this. However ask these people how many of them went out and gave the device a really good test drive and an assessment of whether it would meet their needs or not and you will be silenced by the response."
Trying out a phone is a shop is a VERY diferent affair to OWNING one. Any person will know that, sadly though, many of us have to go by the reviews and forum comments that are available and try to filter out what may or may not be fanboy. Magazines, forum posts, personal reviews, blogs are all individual and very personal. Saying that someone should have reviewed more is simply not fair. Its impossible. Try asking your local O2 shop if you can take a phone away for a couple of weeks to try?
Hold on .... yes you can!!!! And that was the point of the last thread that got closed! Your fellow mod closed a thread which wasn't actually personal to anyone and (from a personal fed up with moaners point of view) I was trying educate people who purchased there phones in the UK that they had a bucket load of rights. If they are not happy, and it was purchased from the uk, then please "turn it in!" and return it.
Now from my pov, i'm a londoner (can you tell?) but i work all over the world. Currently im in Durban (yeah I was there at the test match! and met the England team) but out here they dont have the HD 2 so, I have to go on the reviews etc. Some people out here will spend near on £600 getting it imported from Expansys UK (ummm .... co.za) and other sites.
also..
Can i provide evidence? No. It was not made public so all I can assume is that if I PM a mod, things will be closed:
mikechannon said:
"In general "I hate my phone" threads neither contribute soluactions to problems nor do they seek answers to problems in a calm and reasoned way.
These forums are for the giving and receiving of information that assists users to get the best from their device - it is not a vehicle for "sounding-off" about your phone.
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
(In addition - this thread has been reported by Members)
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Click to collapse
How can i provide more evidence than that? I'm not privvy to your private messages. The previous line though backs up my "love HTC or go away" argument to a small extent:
mikechannon said:
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think you guys, having helped, actually almost pushed HTC to where they are should now use your position and be .... responsible(? maybe a bit strong)) ... finaly get off the HTC only band wagon. Let them know that the stunning products they produce will no longer be accepted only 90% complete.
Ok. Lets be realistic. I ain't gona change your minds on anything and I don't want you to rebel against HTC as they make amazing hardware but, at least, in the position you have got.... maybe create a "if your gone B*&% and let off steam, do it in this thread?" thread? Maybe, just maybe there will be a common thread in it that HTC will finaly get to grips with .....?
Oh, and i've had a tytn, tytn 2 and having had both of those replaced under warranty i thought... no! Poke it! And had a tosh g900 when most people couldnt even spell 800 res screens and then foolishly went to a TD. That was refunded quickly under sales of goods act. Have an Acer M900 but due to the fact i'm living in south africa and i purchased that under my company contract, i now need to replace next week when im back in the UK. I was looking at a Milestone but the exchange support is rubbish at best. So, I have a week to try the HD2 or return it as not fit for purpose.... I do however, really want it to work!
And one final word.... my best winmob device without a device? Well two actually .... the Samsung Omnia and the baggage reconciliation devices i'm working with at the new Durban airport (what??? its not just a PHONE O/S!!!!??)
My opinion.
Here's an example of 2 threads.
MY HD2 IS THE WORST FONE ON THE PLANIT
I bought this fone for £x000 dollars and it should do everything I can ever imagine, rite out of the out of the box. I am disgusted that HTC expect ME to fix their problems.
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SMS didn't send
Hi everyone.
I tried to send a text message to my friends earlier and it's stuck in my outbox. Does anyone know why this might be? Does anyone have a suggestion as to what I should do about it?
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This forum is not about defending or slating any particular device. It is meant for users to get together and talk about ways to make the experience better. This forum is not responsible for the fact that some hardware that comes out of some factory and gets some software installed on it is not 100% perfect!
Now for 1 moment, can we please put aside arguments regarding the device and talk about the forum? Which of the above 2 threads is the most constructive?
Thank you.
johncmolyneux said:
Here's an example of 2 threads.
This forum is not about defending or slating any particular device. It is meant for users to get together and talk about ways to make the experience better. This forum is not responsible for the fact that some hardware that comes out of some factory and gets some software installed on it is not 100% perfect!
Now for 1 moment, can we please put aside arguments regarding the device and talk about the forum? Which of the above 2 threads is the most constructive?
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More to the point, what is the point of leaving the first example open? At the very least there should be a dedicated section for those unhelpful posts (as [★] suggested yesterday) but I think they should just be closed as they're so worthless.
Do you work for a newspaper?
Both comments are usefull. Just because you don't see the use in both doesn't mean they are not usefull. Does that mean 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms so they should be ignored of Fred Smiths Condom appreciation website?
(sorry thats a really poor example but its 2am here in SA and i've been on the beer and Eve-online and films for a few hours )
Very fair play to you for putting forward an argument (non abusive as I would hope) and maybe catch up tomorrow.
Monty,
You are a Londoner eh? I should have known. You lot are nothing but trouble makers!
First off sorry about the quotes within quotes; didn't realise it stopped you from quoting back. Now that I do...
OK, lots in your post that I could come back on in detail but I won't because I'm the sort of chap that likes going forwards, not looking back in self pity or whatever.
The one thing that you have suggested, and you are not the first, is that we think on somewhere where people can let off steam WITHOUT cluttering up the forums. As you know there is some work going on as to how best we can restructure the place to make it better. Can I ask you to be a little patient while all this gets worked through.
In the meantime, think on the following:
- Help us to support people who need and want help and please be robust about those that don't but just fancy a moan and upsetting people on here without ever really wanting to seek help or to help themselves (the word Troll comes to mind).
- If you look at the Development & Hacking forums you will see that Development is stronger than ever and does not change what this place is all about. The work of the chefs is recognised and appreciated, and you can argue that is also development so 2-0 there.
- Lets all try to be a little adult, constructive and get along a little. I can tell you that, from a Mods perspective, we really want to be doing other things to make people's lives on here better rather than spending time closing threads down because people just can't have a little respect for each other. I often wonder whether anyone ever reads the forum rules.
Finally thank you for keeping on the straight and narrow re this thread and not going off the rails and getting it closed.
WB
jakem said:
More to the point, what is the point of leaving the first example open? At the very least there should be a dedicated section for those unhelpful posts (as [★] suggested yesterday) but I think they should just be closed as they're so worthless.
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I totally agree mate (hence the support in said thread raised by [★] yesterday.)
I find this site a ridiculously valuable source of information when I need help with my phone, and I find it disheartening to have to wade through complaint after complaint just in order to get to constructive discussions.
If I wanted to live in troll city, I'd pack all my stuff into boxes; call a removals company; do some browsing of estate agents and property letting agents; check the reputation of the areas I was interested in and then guess what.... MOVE TO TROLL CITY!
I'm a placid guy generally, but some posts really make me struggle to just not tell the OP where to go.
+9999999 recurring to real constructive users of this site.
-9999999 recurring to trolls (and we know you don't think you're a troll, but you are.)
Monty Burns said:
Do you work for a newspaper?
Both comments are usefull. Just because you don't see the use in both doesn't mean they are not usefull. Does that mean 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms so they should be ignored of Fred Smiths Condom appreciation website?
(sorry thats a really poor example but its 2am here in SA and i've been on the beer and Eve-online and films for a few hours )
Very fair play to you for putting forward an argument (non abusive as I would hope) and maybe catch up tomorrow.
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If 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms then they should definitely speak their mind. They would be wrong though to go to a forum that supports uses of brand x condoms and slate them. A support forum is for support.
OK first, no idea who Martin is. (Its Monty spelt the wrong way - doh)
Second, guys sounds like we might have a good conversation on the values of "to HTC or not HTC" although I might be on the wrong side, despite just spending a bucket load of fivers on a HT2.
Please, keep it clean and (well funny if you can't) but not personaly insulting. Everyone on a keyboard is a human being!
Be safe, have fun!
Monty Burns said:
OK first, no idea who Martin is.
Second, guys sounds like we might have a good conversation on the values of "to HTC or not HTC" although I might be on the wrong side, despite just spending a bucket load of fivers on a HT2.
Please, keep it clean and (well funny if you can't) but not personaly insulting. Everyone on a keyboard is a human being!
Be safe, have fun!
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I agree with that totally, but I do think this thread should be moved to a general area. Let's face it, it's hardly HD2 specific now is it!
It would be nice to see everyone's thoughts on this, rather than just the ones with The God Phone. (Just kidding - that was meant to incite trouble )
To be fair, those "I hate this phone" ranting type threads really do spiral into a hate fest or at least the few I've seen. If a topic is interesting and you comment on it, and go back later to see how it develops when all that is left is just insults, it has no use to most if not all.
johncmolyneux said:
I agree with that totally, but I do think this thread should be moved to a general area. Let's face it, it's hardly HD2 specific now is it!
It would be nice to see everyone's thoughts on this, rather than just the ones with The God Phone. (Just kidding - that was meant to incite trouble )
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Click to collapse
Argh! I'm not a god!!! (although I think I am, with my size 9 shoes... bow down before me!)
Seriously, maybe a good idea. I guess in an odd way this may complement (orb3000s?) the other thread vote about should it be HTC or not site? We don't know you server statistics of course but, we can hope that we can get to the stage where we can give our opinion on HTC honestly..... ( i wanted to deleted that and not type it as its not fair, i think we can, mostly ).
In my view its like a really cool manopoly. The games fun to play for almost all of us (i may/may not include myself in that after 2 years HTC abscense on next Friday) but for some it really sucks cos they keep losing.
I would think that moving it to an adult discussion of the real benefits as us users see if you become "open" but, we have no idea of the server costs... only you guys do.
(you do of course know that pressure will mount and mount and mount with regards to non-HTC phones. Your not silly Samsung, LG, Acer.... to name but a few know that the serious money is in smart phones in the next few years, not feature. In Slough o2 test 150-200 meg 4g phones a couple of weeks ago )
From what I understand, this is a developers forum. i.e. look to the potential rather than to the faults as is.
There are far too many distracting threads along the lines of "the virtual keyboard is killing me", "my wife left me because of the battery life", "the pink camera issue made me kill my neighbour". These type of threads may have valid points but they are all a bit melodramatic and really don't serve the purpose of the forum very well as they fan the flames of discontent rather that rise to the can-fix mindset. Despite what the trolls (for want of a better word) might like to say, this isn't a fanboi site, it's for those who realise a problem and want to solve it, simply just improve things, or just want to tweak things just because they can! I'm sure most of us here are all too aware of the shortcomings of Windows mobile software, just as we recognise the potential & strengths of this platform.
Speaking as a self-confessed technophile I will admit to spending an not inconsiderable amount of hard-earned money on utter crap i.e. gadgets that promised so much, yet delivered so little or were simply just badly executed. The HD2 is non of these, it's a stunning piece of design & engineering. It's not perfect, for example: the sharp edges of the camera lens annoy me a little, but it doesn't induce a desire in me to vent my spleen to the world.
I'm optimistic, I hope to survive longer than my HD2 and maybe via this forum HTC will hear my concern for this non-life threatening design flaw and engineer a more ergonomic lens cover for the next mobile phone I get. If they don't, it will undoubtedly leave a microscopic void in my life, but I'm strong enough to move on and no doubt the HTC designers will burn in hell for their tardiness.
xda-developers is what is says and is a great community that helps us get the best from these intriguing phones, so please diss the efforts of those who contribute and recognise that enthusiasm is a far better fertilizer for technology than manure.
Besides that, looking at my HD2 I've just noticed that it's going to be wet & windy at "My Location" tomorrow. That's fifty miles away and I'm not even going there, so it's a win for me!
May I remind the armv(k)-team to this section of the forum rules from xda-developers:
2. Member conduct.
2.1 Language: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result what is ‘ok’ to say in your part of the world may not be ok in someone else’s part of the world. Please think about who is reading what you write. Keep in mind that what you think of as acceptable use of language may not be acceptable to others. Conversely, while reading member posts, remember that word you find offensive may not be to the writer. Tolerance is a two way street.
2.2 Nudity: XDA is used by people of all ages, including minors. It's not acceptable to post nude/pornographic imagery, which includes exposure of the male or female genitalia or of female breasts.
2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and/or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive, therefore none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
2.5 New Members: Treat new members the way you would have liked to have been treated when you were a new member. Provide the new members with guidance, advice and instruction always with respect and courtesy.
2.6 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
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Click to collapse
No need to flame others over your apocalypse rom. It is, after all, just another rom and nothing special that will change the world.
None of your "features" are exclusive to your rom and there's absolutley no reason for *****ing around like that.
I also may quote rule#10:
10. Help others if you can.
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about you, but sharing knowledge is what this forum is all about, right?
It's not about fame...
If all this Linux/Android stuff was closed-source, e.g. the developers wouldn't share the "how to" then you wouldn't be able to build a custom rom in the first place. None of this knowledge is exclusively yours.
What do you think you are? Privileged nobility?
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but you didn't invent any of this, did you?
You copied what you saw elsewhere. And exchanging a "b" for an "a" doesn't make it "your" work...
And next time you pirate some movie or mp3 from the internet (I know you will), please think about your reaction!
mokopokko said:
May I remind the armv(k)-team to this section of the forum rules from xda-developers:
No need to flame others over your apocalypse rom. It is, after all, just another rom and nothing special that will change the world.
None of your "features" are exclusive to your rom and there's absolutley no reason for *****ing around like that.
I also may quote rule#10:
I don't know about you, but sharing knowledge is what this forum is all about, right?
It's not about fame...
If all this Linux/Android stuff was closed-source, e.g. the developers wouldn't share the "how to" then you wouldn't be able to build a custom rom in the first place. None of this knowledge is exclusively yours.
What do you think you are? Privileged nobility?
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but you didn't invent any of this, did you?
You copied what you saw elsewhere. And exchanging a "b" for an "a" doesn't make it "your" work...
And next time you pirate some movie or mp3 from the internet (I know you will), please think about your reaction!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hope they read this
I do not agree. They have seen their work posted before release, from unknown guy. Anyone would go upset.
No. They always said things like "if you want jit and cannot wait, search the internet like we did."
Someone did and found their method.
Owned.
And I don't think that a standard feature of android can be claimed as "their" work.
If they don't want "their" work to be used, they should program their own android without gpl license...
If everybody thought like this none of this stuff that makes android so much better than for example ios would exist.
It's just the wrong attitude.
And btw, they also ripped themes and images without giving proper credits at first.
"whoops, forgot to mention the original creator"
But no one complained.
Now it's their work that gets "compromised" and they act like total jerks.
I dunno....either you wanna share your stuff and expertise like it is ment or you build your own rom just for yourself without bothering others.
Noone really needs a custom rom and noone has to provide one.
Everything that has been achieved already more than we accepted when we bought a g3 with 2.1 as is...
I cant speak in the name of my other members in term of the cursing part
I always was clean in my words, never said bad words
But in that from other parts "Sorry"
I dont mind sharing stuff or anything as said before
The only thing is people taking credit on other peoples work, its not about fame its about been correct
The files got corrupt, so we will never know the truth, but i think that has been settled
THe main problem here was someone that got the coding before release and sent it out behing our back
Nuff said
Best Regards
Motafoca
Dude. First stop reminders and start helping people. Look at your post count. Dont try to be smart. Next be a developer and then you will know how it pains when some one stole your months hard work and sleepless nights. So better stop posting and start helping.
MOD: Please review this thread and delete.
Your work was leaked by your own team. You said the last time to everyone: "if you want JIT then search for it". Someone has done that found your leaked version and has shared this with us. So you can't just come in here like rudolf and start yelling and offending on everybody who wanted JIT. If something is leaked by your team members its NOT right to blame the Community for that.
After all, thank you for JIT.
shadow7582 said:
Your work was leaked by your own team. You said the last time to everyone: "if you want JIT then search for it". Someone has done that found your leaked version and has shared this with us. So you can't just come in here like rudolf and start yelling and offending on everybody who wanted JIT. If something is leaked by your team members its NOT right to blame the Community for that.
After all, thank you for JIT.
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Click to collapse
dont you get it!
We stopped it! You fools are starting it again! man you guys are like dirty filthy crabs! pulling our legs to your dirt all the time!
"shadow7582" BEAT IT! go get some fresh air!
mokopokko said:
No. They always said things like "if you want jit and cannot wait, search the internet like we did."
Someone did and found their method.
Owned.
And I don't think that a standard feature of android can be claimed as "their" work.
If they don't want "their" work to be used, they should program their own android without gpl license...
If everybody thought like this none of this stuff that makes android so much better than for example ios would exist.
It's just the wrong attitude.
And btw, they also ripped themes and images without giving proper credits at first.
"whoops, forgot to mention the original creator"
But no one complained.
Now it's their work that gets "compromised" and they act like total jerks.
I dunno....either you wanna share your stuff and expertise like it is ment or you build your own rom just for yourself without bothering others.
Noone really needs a custom rom and noone has to provide one.
Everything that has been achieved already more than we accepted when we bought a g3 with 2.1 as is...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% agreed
EdisDee said:
100% agreed
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Click to collapse
KID. who the hell are you. I dont know why you are jumping in. You said 100% agree and breaking rules.
No more smart people here. Dont make it complicated.
"Dude" why don't you mind your attidute?
No offense intended, merely stating out facts. If you don't like it, don't like it.
And wtf has my post count to do with all that? Who sais that I'm not an better developer than you? My post count? Come on, give me some credit.
I don't try to be "smart", I try to be resonable.
I think it's not just me that is somewhat annoyed with your attitude.
Because it's against the basic idea.
It's not development related, so I posted it here. You don't want my oppinion. Don't read it.
So better stop flaming innocent people, start reading the forum rules (you obviosly need to, no matter your post count or position inside the community) and then work on your kernel or whatever.
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate your work and am looking forward to it, but I don't like your "policy".
Mokopokko
The persons involved arent complaining, dont come here and troll with other peoples stuff
If the people involved want to complain fine, but you dont have nothing to do with it
Go find something else to do
Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot this is your topic.
It's not primarily about your guys work being leaked (believe it or not: you're not the most important parts of my life), I was merely intending to make you guys think about this "freedom of knowledge", "sharing" and "community" thing.
I don't know why you start to insult me.
If you don't want to discuss, don't discuss. It's really that simple.
If noone wants to comment on this thread, noone will and it will be on page 2 tomorrow.
I don't think it's trolling at all.
Flaming on the other hand is defenitly what you guys are doing.
I repeat the same to you. why are you reading and overposting. You are acting smarter now. If you have problem go complain to mods and let them take action if some thing is wrong. Who the hell are you to remind us. If you dont like shut u r as. No big deal. You are breaking forum rules by posting nonsense and wasting our time.
I think only one thing, we must be grateful to this guys for their free work. Here many of us can search on internet and copy the work of others but few know how to do it.
I'm waiting for yours rom since I have seen the announce of Apocalypse.
Then good work and thank you ARMV team.
Edit: sorry for my bad english
Sent from my GT-I5800 using Tapatalk
warning to all
hi
a warning to ALL no flaming this thread is closed if any more of this is happens them some one is gona get a Ban pls dont force me to do so
THREAD CLOSED
I love XDA.
I've been lurking for about a year now in a few different device forums as I contemplated buying a Viewsonic Gtablet, then a Notion Ink, then a Moto Xoom, before finally settling on the Transformer
It seems regardless of platform, there is at least a handful of talented, patient, and damn smart developers making cool things happen, a bunch more tinkerer-by-nature hobbyists trying all the cool stuff the devs put out (and showing their gratitude any way they can), another handful of eager but clueless -- sometimes young, ESL, or whatever -- people asking dumb questions, and finally, the few self-righteous bullies that make every visit to XDA a jarring reminder of how rude people can be.
Moderators (and self-envisioned moderators)...stop being jerks! I understand the importance of keeping threads in their respective categories and of cleaning up duplicate threads and asking people to search before creating another thread, and I appreciate the work you do. But don't say something to someone you wouldn't say to them in person, just because you can't see their face!
Succinctly make your point, shut it down, and move on. Snark is the nails on a chalkboard of personality traits; we'll all benefit and improve ourselves by growing out of it.
A) The search function sucks. It does. The only reason I know where anything is on these forums is because I spent ~20 hours reading every single thread that looked important before I even bought my tablet. I don't think the oft-thrown-in-people's-faces search bar has ever helped me find something I wanted to know. Is that an excuse for people to be too lazy to do some research on their own before making a post filled with questions they could've answered simply by browsing the front page of threads? No. But it is something to consider next time you want to jump down someone's throat for having a specific question about drivers while trying to figure out NVFlash.
B) There are three different deprecated "stock to rom" walkthroughs still stickied! (See the "Eee pad reference thread.") Rooting and rom-ing is an undertaking, and people are willing and want to learn/teach themselves, but don't keep three contradicting textbooks on the shelf and then get pissy when people don't know whether the current "best practice" is this or that. If you want to keep the house clean of annoying re-post questions, maybe someone should take a day and streamline that "Eee pad reference thread" into something useful/usable again. Looks like the f***** tax code!
C) I'm not a developer -- I can't make anything cool, port this, or deodex that. But I can help these clueless, lost people figure out what went wrong in their attempt to gain root. And often, I'd like to answer their questions...but you already locked the thread and told them to pack their bags because they're not smart enough for the wild west of XDA!
Anyway, it'll be easy for you to dismiss (or lock and delete) this, because it isn't really "Transformer General," I've only posted five times, and/or because no one likes to turn a critical eye upon themselves, but I hope you don't.
I'm just a guest here, and not much of a contributing one at that, but just be respectful to people.
Searching before posting is a rule of this site, not a suggestion. I have seen plenty of people do fine searching for things on their own, myself included. Those that complain about the search function either don't know how to use it right or don't actually use it and claim they did. If your job was to remind people of rules they should already know and are blatantly obvious, but choose to ignore, you would be tired of it too; honestly those people deserve more than a slight reminding of the rules (temp ban sounds more appealing). Consider it a favor that a slap on the wrist is all that happens.
If you don't like XDA search function, use google. If you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth.
Sent from my creaky Thunderbolt
One reason that the search function doesn't work as anticipated (at least for me) is that the default is "search titles only" and if you just blindly type a search term in and hit "go" then you almost always won't get a hit.
I've had to hit "advanced search" and choose "in titles and posts" to get anything.
So that's my comment and now I have a question..lol...
How do I make the default to search titles and posts and not just titles?
I've already tried saving my search preferences; that seems to do nothing.
mb02 said:
Searching before posting is a rule of this site, not a suggestion. I have seen plenty of people do fine searching for things on their own, myself included. Those that complain about the search function either don't know how to use it right or don't actually use it and claim they did. If your job was to remind people of rules they should already know and are blatantly obvious, but choose to ignore, you would be tired of it too; honestly those people deserve more than a slight reminding of the rules (temp ban sounds more appealing). Consider it a favor that a slap on the wrist is all that happens.
If you don't like XDA search function, use google. If you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth.
Sent from my creaky Thunderbolt
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Click to collapse
Wow. Way to prove OP's point. You know you could have just not commented, but the fact that you expended the effort just to be a snarky, sniping jackass not only showcases exactly what OP was talking about, but also tells us everything we need to know about you as a person. Why don't you go **** yourself and the horse you rode in on?
Thanks
KoNP said:
Wow. Way to prove OP's point. You know you could have just not commented, but the fact that you expended the effort just to be a snarky, sniping jackass not only showcases exactly what OP was talking about, but also tells us everything we need to know about you as a person.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And
KoNP said:
Why don't you go **** yourself and the horse you rode in on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has got to be the funniest "pot-calling-the-kettle-black" moment I've seen on the XDA in a long time....
Why do these two sentences not go together?
I've seen funny...and that's funny.
rpavich said:
I've seen funny...and that's funny.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I try.
Also, it's not the pot calling the kettle black to call someone else out on their ****ty behaviour. Additionally, I'm not the one sitting here acting like I'm infallible and taking cheap shots at the OP who made valid points. If mb02 had had something legitimate to say in response to OP, hell something halfway contributory, then he wouldn't have had to respond the way he did. I think he's forgotten that old adage "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" somewhere along the way.
You get to choose which side of the fence to sit on. The side with elitist circlejerkers who practice exclusion like mb02, or the side with people who would rather spend their posting effort helping others and not being a total cockjockey.
Yeah right...you're correcting is WAAAAYYY different than anybody else's....
Read the Policy Announcement to get a feel for why XDA is here.
Also the XDA MANTRA
(begin paraphrase from a former Senior Moderator)
This is not a site to make people popular. I don't care how many people use a specific kernel/ROM/mod/hack/bicycle - act like a fool and demand something from a developer who has put their time and energy and effort - and you deserve to be called out for it. The rules are here for a reason. You either follow them or leave, your choice.
What XDA is:
XDA is a developers site
XDA is a free forum you are ALLOWED to use. We could make it invite only
XDA is and always will be about the developers. And before you say without the users there would be no XDA, Bull****, who do you think used the stuff before normal people even knew what a smartphone was......wait for it.........other developers. People that could give good feedback with relavent info. Not just "dahhh this is broken, please fix".
What XDA is NOT:
XDA is not a place to come and make your phone cool.
XDA is not the cool place for idiots to hang out.
XDA is not your friends house
XDA is not a democracy
XDA is not a place to make Money.
XDA IS a place to come to learn and share your knowledge. If you are not here for those reasons then you are here for the wrong ones.
XDA has become a place where every dumbass in the world has a smartphone and comes here thinking they have the right to anything. Well guess what? You dont have the right to s**t. We share it because we want to and we dont if we dont feel like it. Are the Developers or the Mods required to make you happy? Nope not in the least. Wanna leave. Go ahead. I beg you, please do. The less people that are asking dumb question because they dont know what they are doing (this is understand, but at least look) or are too lazy to look for it the better.
[/end paraphrase]
@OP:You are right most of times, however you can see many people making posts/threads without reading anything. For a MOD/ADMIN who see this again and again and again, I can assume that will be pissed.
More over if some one reads a stickie about flashing and has no idea why/how for his own sake please do not proceed and brick/destroy the equipment.
@OP careful your going to be iron fisted.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
One thought on the search function. It works fairly well if you take the time to learn it. My only suggestion is to investigate removing or lowering the required wait time between searches. I am wondering of the additional load on the system from more searches would be less than the load caused by creating a new thread after the initial search failed to provide expected results and frustration set in.
Rumbleweed said:
One thought on the search function. It works fairly well if you take the time to learn it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you start typing a search in the box is your default "titles only"?
mb02,
I understand and appreciate the "search first" rule; and I actually agree that a temp-ban for breaking forum rules is appropriate. What is inappropriate is dishing out smug keyboard-lashings. Someone creates a new post asking something that's been covered a million times before? "Sorry, you've been temp-banned for violation of forum rules. Please read these two threads (blahblah) to understand why and help you become a quality contributor. Hope to see you back."
Not, 'Is the search bar missing, or are you just an idiot? Disconnect your router, crawl in a corner, and die.'
Also, who doesn't have a job that involves dealing with frustrating people while remaining civil?
Moderation is important. Enforcing forum rules is important. Stuff like this, "if you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth." is disrespectful garbage. I'm an adult with an education, job, and family. If you spoke like that to me in person, we would have an issue.
Jerdog,
I actually already read both of those before I joined -- and they did help me better understand XDA's history. I'm not defending the entitled, "this isn't working, fix it," and "when is the next release???," etc. crowd. Far from it. Those people are guilty of the same disrespect I'm so tired of seeing, and I'm glad the moderators stay on top of that. I know I get tired of reading development threads to figure out how the guys are doing on a particular project and wading through a soup of worthless posts (following the "Virtuous Galaxy" rom development in the Iconia forum was a perfect example of this).
I can only imagine how annoying that is for Mike, Gnufabio, Roach, Rothnic, et al. (That said, I also doubt these guys would be as amazingly prolific as they are if they didn't know that thousands of us non-dev muggles love and appreciate their work.)
If XDA is in fact a place to "learn and share knowledge" (and I hope I eventually can absorb enough know-how from these guys to make and share something of my own...even if it's just a simple framework button/battery mod), that abhors "disrespect, rudeness and fun-ruining"...why so much of that from moderators? It seems Iron Fist simply flipped the script on who gets to be rude. (Again, I have no issue with closing/moving threads and forum housekeeping.)
But this kind of stuff: "Wanna leave? Go ahead. I beg you, please do" ?
Why would you be that hostile?
I understand that this is a free, could-be-invite-only forum, I don't have to pay a thing to use it, XDA has more registered users than it wants, and you have every right to tell me to pound sand. But why would you? I've been learning here, and do my best to share my limited knowledge (even it it means PMing someone the thread that would help them solve their issue because the thread is closed and I can't post in it).
Keep the Development sub-forum limited to the dev elite, but if people stick around (in the General and Questions sub-forums) and learn because their first misstep was corrected respectfully (rather than brutally), maybe they'll be developing a popular rom or theme in a year or two!
rpavich said:
When you start typing a search in the box is your default "titles only"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I almost always use Advanced search. Much more effective.
Because honestly.......Abuse seems to be the only thing that slows the creaping tide of every n00b who jumps on here with his new device and want s to be spoon fed every detail on rooting and roming and theming and overclocking.....etc.....etc....
Instead of looking for the answer they just keep starting new threads for every little issue they have. This is not a customer service forum.
Agree on the advance search. took me a moment to realize the "titles only" option.
However, if im not on my computer its damn near impossible to search anything on the tablet. Anytime i click the search button, it opens, and quickly closes. Not form friendly..
I dont know.
And not trying to derail the conversation here but i have tried different browsers and classic xda option. So, sometimes in a dev thread with over 200 pages, searching isnt an option.
Not XDAs prob. I know. Just saying
Search can take time and hardly ever gets me to where I need on the first try. Fortunately I am on all day, every day flipping through forums so what really works for me is simply searching for my username+search term. Helps narrow down threads I've been in and looking for.
I do think Mods can be "too hostile" sometimes. A simple "Thread Closed" works or "Moved to Appropriate Forum".
It would be nice if threads could be "CLOSED" by users once a solution is found
DaveRichardson said:
If XDA is in fact a place to "learn and share knowledge" (and I hope I eventually can absorb enough know-how from these guys to make and share something of my own...even if it's just a simple framework button/battery mod), that abhors "disrespect, rudeness and fun-ruining"...why so much of that from moderators? It seems Iron Fist simply flipped the script on who gets to be rude. (Again, I have no issue with closing/moving threads and forum housekeeping.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mod Edit: I am an idiot and I cannot properly structure an argument without resorting to vulgar language.
KoNP said:
Uh, yeah... you didn't realise that was precisely the reason they did it?
Moderators have no real power or achievements outside of the little boxes they push around on here. Iron Fist will slowly kill this place - all that'll be left are a bunch of power-crazy gits and the toolbags who clamour to fellate them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahhhhhhh.....someone sounds a little butthurt
jerdog said:
Read the Policy Announcement to get a feel for why XDA is here.
Also the XDA MANTRA
(begin paraphrase from a former Senior Moderator)
This is not a site to make people popular. I don't care how many people use a specific kernel/ROM/mod/hack/bicycle - act like a fool and demand something from a developer who has put their time and energy and effort - and you deserve to be called out for it. The rules are here for a reason. You either follow them or leave, your choice.
What XDA is:
XDA is a developers site
XDA is a free forum you are ALLOWED to use. We could make it invite only
XDA is and always will be about the developers. And before you say without the users there would be no XDA, Bull****, who do you think used the stuff before normal people even knew what a smartphone was......wait for it.........other developers. People that could give good feedback with relavent info. Not just "dahhh this is broken, please fix".
What XDA is NOT:
XDA is not a place to come and make your phone cool.
XDA is not the cool place for idiots to hang out.
XDA is not your friends house
XDA is not a democracy
XDA is not a place to make Money.
XDA IS a place to come to learn and share your knowledge. If you are not here for those reasons then you are here for the wrong ones.
XDA has become a place where every dumbass in the world has a smartphone and comes here thinking they have the right to anything. Well guess what? You dont have the right to s**t. We share it because we want to and we dont if we dont feel like it. Are the Developers or the Mods required to make you happy? Nope not in the least. Wanna leave. Go ahead. I beg you, please do. The less people that are asking dumb question because they dont know what they are doing (this is understand, but at least look) or are too lazy to look for it the better.
[/end paraphrase]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Thread closed.
This is a development forum, not an end-user support forum. Although many developers are kind enough to answer questions regarding their releases, this is in no way expected from them. Also, development sections must be kept clean in order to allow our valued developers to do what they do without the intrusion of noobish "entitled" attitudes.
If you have a problem with the way the XDA moderation team handles the forums (either general or more specific), you have two choices: you can either leave or you can message MikeChannon, our forum administrator, to suggest a different modus operandi. This thread is useless and off topic, as it's not even peripherally related to the Transformer.
to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta rim for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u claim they are regonised developers then u as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.
... +1 ... it's a shame ...
+1 but there is usually more to these stories than appears.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium
Maybe it has something to do with Dorimanx calling the kernal his own..!
Everyone uses things created by others but give credit.
But who am I to say maybe it is completely his own.
I did like his roms though..
shanman-2 said:
Maybe it has something to do with Dorimanx calling the kernal his own..!
Everyone uses things created by others but give credit.
But who am I to say maybe it is completely his own.
I did like his roms though..
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all kernel devs do same u dont see teds+gingers+coles3.1.1kernel just the name of who publishes kernel and compiles it together not the name of devs who solved and wrote code for different snippits used in kernel yet they still keep dev status and quite frankly a lot of those devs can be quite obnoxious, rude and contempious and not answer questions unlike dorimanx who always answers and tries to solve problems for us.
UNLIKE THE MODERATORS WHO DEEM THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO ANSWER ANYTHING AND NOW SEEM TO BE A LAW ONTO THEMSELVES!!!!!!
maddoc1007 said:
to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 (someone) who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 (everyone) that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta (built a)rim (rom) for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles (Google's) and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u (you) claim they are regonised developers then u (you) as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.
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Really? Well... What if I told you why it was removed. There is more to life than the HD2 forum, and in this case, there were issues in the Galaxy S 2 forum, pertaining to making unfounded and false allegations against another developer.
At XDA we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title. In this case, going around making false (and very serious) allegations against other developers is NOT acceptable. For this reason it was revoked, although a user subject to this can appeal and it will be dealt with suitably.
gazzacbr said:
+1 but there is usually more to these stories than appears.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium
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Correct.
maddoc1007 said:
all kernel devs do same u dont see teds+gingers+coles3.1.1kernel just the name of who publishes kernel and compiles it together not the name of devs who solved and wrote code for different snippits used in kernel yet they still keep dev status and quite frankly a lot of those devs can be quite obnoxious, rude and contempious and not answer questions unlike dorimanx who always answers and tries to solve problems for us.
UNLIKE THE MODERATORS WHO DEEM THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO ANSWER ANYTHING AND NOW SEEM TO BE A LAW ONTO THEMSELVES!!!!!!
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May I ask how we are a law unto ourselves? We do answer to you (reply within 24 hours to your question is pretty good going), and I have explained the circumstances above.
pulser_g2 said:
Really? Well... What if I told you why it was removed. There is more to life than the HD2 forum, and in this case, there were issues in the Galaxy S 2 forum, pertaining to making unfounded and false allegations against another developer.
At XDA we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title. In this case, going around making false (and very serious) allegations against other developers is NOT acceptable. For this reason it was revoked, although a user subject to this can appeal and it will be dealt with suitably.
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So, from what I gather from both your reply, and this from dorimanx:
"""there was an small war with one more dev.
i was wrong about my clame.
and got insolted many time, from him and his friends, i have apologise, after i found i was wrong, but my title just removed"""
is that he said something in the wrong, then the person he wrongly called out, instead of solving the issue reasonably both him and his friends laid down a **** storm of insults and what-not (I assume here there was equally insulting return-fire), after finding out he was in the wrong, he apologized, but his title was still removed...
am I correct in assuming that none of the persons involved on the other side even got warning? (after-all, I got a warning because someone said something was not possible many times and I not-so-polity told them to bugger off... and then a week later what I requested was posted in the developer section....)
also can I assume that he can appeal his title revocation? he states after-all he did apologize, and he is after-all ACTUALLY a developer with much praise and admiration for his works...
Why not a warning instead of title pull? or temp ban or something? Telling a dev he isnt a dev is a bit more then insulting if you ask me...
*This is going on just what you both have said, if you wished to add more information to the pot, or point out the fiasco for others to read to understand better, I am all for it, but what I have written above is just from my reading both your and his statements on the subject... and despite the "you weren't involved, dont say anything" montra that presents itself when I choose to post this, I have long thought he deserved his Dev title... (especially since hes been given it once before... even though that was a community wide mistake)
Hammerfest said:
So, from what I gather from both your reply, and this from dorimanx:
"""there was an small war with one more dev.
i was wrong about my clame.
and got insolted many time, from him and his friends, i have apologise, after i found i was wrong, but my title just removed"""
is that he said something in the wrong, then the person he wrongly called out, instead of solving the issue reasonably both him and his friends laid down a **** storm of insults and what-not (I assume here there was equally insulting return-fire), after finding out he was in the wrong, he apologized, but his title was still removed...
am I correct in assuming that none of the persons involved on the other side even got warning? (after-all, I got a warning because someone said something was not possible many times and I not-so-polity told them to bugger off... and then a week later what I requested was posted in the developer section....)
also can I assume that he can appeal his title revocation? he states after-all he did apologize, and he is after-all ACTUALLY a developer with much praise and admiration for his works...
Why not a warning instead of title pull? or temp ban or something? Telling a dev he isnt a dev is a bit more then insulting if you ask me...
*This is going on just what you both have said, if you wished to add more information to the pot, or point out the fiasco for others to read to understand better, I am all for it, but what I have written above is just from my reading both your and his statements ont he subject....
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There's more to the issue than that.
In order to properly investigate the claim, I did what any developer would do upon seeing that claim - take the original sources he made the allegation against, and then rebuild them from scratch, testing ONLY the change alleged to cause the issues.
This is a fundamental and basic step, and it demonstrated there was no issue with the sources being posted by the other developer.
I'd ask you, is it acceptable to go around making inflammatory remarks and comments against another developer, ACCUSING them of breaking the GPL (when in fact they are adhering to it beyond what is even required, pushing commits that are not released yet)? What if someone did that to your preferred developer? Wouldn't this be a thread of "OMG STRIP HIM OF HIS TITLE, HE INSULTED OUR FAVOURITE DEV"?
There was ample chance given to resolve the issue amicably, and the accusatory tone used against another developer was not acceptable. Furthermore, missing out on fundamental steps such as checking your own allegations out fully (by testing with clean, unmodified builds) is quite fundamental.
I did say he can appeal it, and he has contacted me with regard to that, and it will be dealt with in due course.
I'm surprised at you asking about that though - would you rather we temp ban him? I somehow don't think many people would agree with you.
Finally on regard to "telling a dev he isn't a dev", that is not what RD is about - RD is about the best examples of professional standard developers on XDA. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer. It's a privilege, not a right. And not every developer has it (many do not wish to have it, and have declined to apply even when suggested). It's something that's open to apply for, but people must be at the required level of skills and act in the right manner. If either of these changes, then their status can be reviewed.
re re reinstatement of dev to dorimanx
i have read the explanation from pulser but am somewhat dismayed by his reply shots were fired it seems from both sides, rude or derogatory they may have been but an apology was issued by dorimanx. my amusement stems from why when other devs on xda rant and rave at members for asking questions and call them stupid or thick and other inflamatory remarks you do not take their dev status from them
A we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title.
your words above but yet iv not seen u or other moderators reprimanding those devs or taking their titles of them.
. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer.
more of your words but i have seen from thdeads on here the way ordinary decent people on here are treated and disrespected maybe their english is not too good or they are new and dont know their way around xda or maybe a threas is a few hundred pages long and they cant find what they are looking for and they ask a question. then lo and behold a dev tells them they are 2 stupid to look or too ignorant to.find it themselves or other worse remarks. is that not being disrespctful and NOT FOLLOWING YOUR CODE OF CONDUCT. yet ye take no action against them? as a result of the way people are insulted on here iv seen in threads where membera have said that they are leaving xda over the insults to them. so where were the moderators then and. why werent those devs titles taken??. read through your dev threads and you will see plenty of examples of this.
therefore it is not an even playing field for members here on xda and os if you want to throw me off xda so be it but until you clean up your act on xda you cant make 1 law for some and another law for others
pulser_g2 said:
There's more to the issue than that.
In order to properly investigate the claim, I did what any developer would do upon seeing that claim - take the original sources he made the allegation against, and then rebuild them from scratch, testing ONLY the change alleged to cause the issues.
This is a fundamental and basic step, and it demonstrated there was no issue with the sources being posted by the other developer.
1 ) I'd ask you, is it acceptable to go around making inflammatory remarks and comments against another developer, ACCUSING them of breaking the GPL (when in fact they are adhering to it beyond what is even required, pushing commits that are not released yet)? What if someone did that to your preferred developer? Wouldn't this be a thread of "OMG STRIP HIM OF HIS TITLE, HE INSULTED OUR FAVOURITE DEV"?
There was ample chance given to resolve the issue amicably, and the accusatory tone used against another developer was not acceptable. Furthermore, missing out on fundamental steps such as checking your own allegations out fully (by testing with clean, unmodified builds) is quite fundamental.
I did say he can appeal it, and he has contacted me with regard to that, and it will be dealt with in due course.
2 ) I'm surprised at you asking about that though - would you rather we temp ban him? I somehow don't think many people would agree with you.
Finally on regard to "telling a dev he isn't a dev", that is not what RD is about - RD is about the best examples of professional standard developers on XDA. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer. It's a privilege, not a right. And not every developer has it (many do not wish to have it, and have declined to apply even when suggested). It's something that's open to apply for, but people must be at the required level of skills and act in the right manner. If either of these changes, then their status can be reviewed.
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1: TBQH, if a dev came into the dev thread for dori's HD2, and pulled the same thing, and then WE as users and HIM as a developer played the whole two year old fighting game, you can bet your arse I would expect you to put everyone on "time-out" that fired off "conduct not inkeeping" with the expected conduct of the open source community (as you put it), dori and any of us users that participated as well! Additionally, I wouldn't request a title be stripped, because to the users of XDA as a whole, RD might as well just be D, and lets face it, I see far more users here then developers. However as I said, even if one was at fault, if both sides where participating in the argument and insults and "bad conduct", I MYSELF would still punish both sides, even a warning is still more tactful then removal of a title and normally a warning shunts people before it would warrant a ban or title revocation.
2: It was a suggestion made "in passing", and sometimes, people need a few days or even a week to cool down, but your right, not many people would agree with me, but it was throwing out something other then removing a title that IMHO at least, has been deserved by dori for the longest time...
Im not ignoring the rest of your comment btw, I am not a developer, but I am a user and a PC Builder/Tech both as a hobby and a job, and I advocate "full wipes" or "clean testing environments" whenever I play with new rom's, fix issues on customers computers, or even encounter error's myself, so I see the fault in calling out an issue, prior to a "scrub test" as I like to call it myself, and i kinda went into the RD issue in 1: so ill leave it at that
maddoc1007 said:
i have read the explanation from pulser but am somewhat dismayed by his reply shots were fired it seems from both sides, rude or derogatory they may have been but an apology was issued by dorimanx. my amusement stems from why when other devs on xda rant and rave at members for asking questions and call them stupid or thick and other inflamatory remarks you do not take their dev status from them
A we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title.
your words above but yet iv not seen u or other moderators reprimanding those devs or taking their titles of them.
. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer.
more of your words but i have seen from thdeads on here the way ordinary decent people on here are treated and disrespected maybe their english is not too good or they are new and dont know their way around xda or maybe a threas is a few hundred pages long and they cant find what they are looking for and they ask a question. then lo and behold a dev tells them they are 2 stupid to look or too ignorant to.find it themselves or other worse remarks. is that not being disrespctful and NOT FOLLOWING YOUR CODE OF CONDUCT. yet ye take no action against them? as a result of the way people are insulted on here iv seen in threads where membera have said that they are leaving xda over the insults to them. so where were the moderators then and. why werent those devs titles taken??. read through your dev threads and you will see plenty of examples of this.
therefore it is not an even playing field for members here on xda and os if you want to throw me off xda so be it but until you clean up your act on xda you cant make 1 law for some and another law for others
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you make a good point, and I hope the mod reads it, I have seen many dev's for rom's and mods who definitely don't follow any "code of conduct" I have ever heard of, but I have NEVER (and I stress this in only my experience as a User of but a few ROM's) seen a user have his/hers title revoked, and I used to follow links and frequently browse XDA before I registered...
Now in saying that, its possible its due to a lack of "report"ing occurring, and with the latest fiasco regarding the E3D people have become "report" crazy and if it proves true, I should expect to see more "RD" and other "higher then senior member" accounts demoted
Ive noted before, Ill note again, I "assume" things being ok with making an ass out of myself, its part of the learning process, and I have to thank the mod for replying to me/us and taking the time to help us out as supporters of the user turned dev demoted user instead of outright closing the thread. Oh, and I am just a USER... dont taze me bro... (im a bit drunk, forgive me, I just had to...)
The biggest part of being a big open source community, or any community for that matter, is collaborating and the ability to tolerate mistakes. If nobody makes mistakes than the community is not evolving since there is nobody participating.
That being said, the bad blood which came across both Dorimanx and the other developer is a part of an active community, and it has been proven to be the only way somebody can truly learn; this is the main reason you have authority (moderators) present.
IMO stripping one user from his title but leaving the other is unfair prejudice, its like saying, "you were both wrong in your act, but he was wrong-er".
As a moderator, I suggest you ask yourself what is your message to the community, do you want more people participating but in a mannered, polite way or do you want people being afraid to challenge somebody?
As I see it, if you came here to learn, you ought to make mistakes; its a collaborative effort not a memorial for those who already know "everything" and came here to boost their ego, or am I wrong?
As a Retired Senior Mod and since i was involved in Dorinmax issue, i could say more about but this will be not fair against XDA, period.
XDA have rules and you are expected to follow them even if you are ERd, RD, RT, RC or a Mod, you cannot use a pubblic thread to make accuses, troll or to partecipate in a flaming war hence you will be punished with infraction points and/or ban and this happened in that case but yet i disagree with easy titles revoking and as said here, many other so called devs should be without the title.
The moral of the story is: When you have a problem or if you see any issue, contact you Forum Specific Moderator or any Senior Moderator, these people are doing a great job and they are always ready to help or to suggest how to address the problem in the better way.
maddoc1007 said:
to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta rim for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u claim they are regonised developers then u as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.
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Thanks man, you have stirred a bit o' thought.......
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium
Looking again at this thread..do not politics come into everything that's worth talking about!
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium
shanman-2 said:
Looking again at this thread..do not politics come into everything that's worth talking about!
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium
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thats the crux of it all no wonder so many great developers have left xda!!
Such is life in the virtual world and the real world ta boot .. .LOL,
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium