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Prior to getting the Galaxy S, after I read what Samsung were saying in the manual of not to overcharge, I investigated the reasons and wrote in various topics on the battery and the differences between Li-Ion & Li-Pol battery types.
At that point with all the evidence found it made sense to believe that what Samsung were saying in not to overcharge was accurate.
Basically, at that time it was believed the phone used a Li-Pol, Li-Pol batteries are different in that they are 'wet cell' as opposed to Li-Ion which are 'dry cell' charged.
Li-Pol can be manufactured much thinner but can not be manufactured in different shapes.
This is to allow the wet cells whilst under charge which become hot to move around the battery freely. If a Li-Pol was manufactured in different shapes like Li-Ion it would create a 'hot-spot' in an area where the wet cell could not move fluidly around the remainder of the battery.
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
Anyway, moving on to the present.......
After now getting the phone and doing a bit of testing I have found the overcharging issue NOT to be an issue.
When you commence a charge on the phone the icon changes to a charge state.
However, once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
So to all of us who have been worried about overcharging, my personal advise is to NOT worry and charge as and when you feel the need.
Hope this helps.
Beards
Thanks for clear up, I was always been scared while charging that it may blow up.
Nice find!
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
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Click to collapse
When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
I have just charged mine from bone empty to full. A notification came up stating that the battery was full and to disconnect the charger. Although the battery monitor app says it is not charging and the normal battery meter has gone solid.
I agree that it seems to stop the charging circuit. Although I thought we were getting LiPo not li ion for these as well it's definitely li ion though.
Morbo66 said:
When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
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Take the battery out and turn it over. Now read the battery type and you will see it says Li-Ion.
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
hkfriends said:
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
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Click to collapse
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
Beards said:
...once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
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Click to collapse
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
Beards said:
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
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Click to collapse
AFAIK, the reason to fully deplete the battery is to properly calibrate the % remaining in your battery. Running your battery down to empty causes more stress to the phone than running it down 50%. I happened to get a free battery with my device, but I would've bought a spare if I didn't get a free one, so I can easily go 3-5 days depending on usage, during this time I have my house and work to do charges. However, let's say I were to be expecting to have less frequent charges, such as taking a vacation, prior to that I would be fully depleting the battery to 0% to calibrate because then the battery level is more important to me. The trade off of long-term life vs short term accuracy is a very easy decision for me to make due to my situation.
In older batteries you had to "use the cells or lose them" situation where it was better, to at least occasionally, completely run down the device rather than doing partial cycles. These days, charging @ 50% 2 times is equivalent to 1 cycle of 100% with less long-term "stress" to the battery.
borchgrevink said:
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
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Same for me.
The reason it tells you to unplug the charger when done charging has nothing to do with battery. It is to save power. Battery chargers still draw some power just because they are plugged in. And in these green times it is ofcourse very popular to have warnings everywhere so you can claim to a green company. And every lithium ion and polymer battery contains electronics designed to protect them from abuse. Including over charging. So that will never be a problem on any phone unless you have a defective battery.
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
Joans said:
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
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I think I read that the newest, or maybe just a random middle since something has superseded it, firmware fixed this.
interesting topic thx Beards for sharing your insights.
Overcharging - read the manual
Guys, if you will read the manual that came with your SGS, it says there that "DO NOT OVERCHARGE YOUR BATTERY FOR MORE THAN TWO WEEKS". It obviously means that the battery can be overcharged for more than a day as long as it is not more than 2 weeks ( I doubt if someone will be able to do that). So that confirms also that we can recharge anytime and not necessarily have it done to zero before charging. Hope this helps also
i've pretty much quit worrying about the overcharge after the first month of usage
i was following the auto pop up message, just because i wanted to conserve battery
but having 3 spare battery made me though it's futile
and it was extreme annoying to wakeup in the middle of the night, just to unplug it
it was awesome the day i found that patch on the forum to disable the annoying pop up alert that your battery is full.
now i can sleep the whole night without the alert coming online, and rest at ease knowing if the phone actually alerts me, it'll be a phone call or something important, not some annoying "unplug me plz!" message
At the office I leave my phone in a cradle. When I get calls I remove the phone to answer and then return it to the cradle when done. My battery goes from 100% down to somewhere in the 90's then charges back to 100% in the cradle. Does this repeated process harm the battery in any way? I've read that these batteries don't suffer from the memory effect, but I'm still not sure if this counts as a charging cycle.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
You should always let the battery run down completely some times maybe once a week.
Really? I've read on this forum that there is no need to do that with the new Lithium Ion batteries. I've even read that this could have a negative effect and you should try not to let the battery drain completly.
I don't understand why there isn't a proper battery care section in the manual. Its as if its some kind of voodoo science.
Perhaps not Once a week. But Once a "while"
The reason is that, Phone software uses approximation to calculate the charge left in the Battery. So over time, battery ages and software may not be calibrated to match with the battery's storage capacity. So draining the battery entirely and charging them fully gives the phone's software to assess the battery's health and recalibrate.
It's a lithium battery mate. The only way you can really damage it is by a complete discharge. So long as you don't switch the phone back on once it switches itself off due to low battery you needn't worry about anything else.
Also in theory the lithium batteries have a lifespan of say about a 1000 charges for example and everytime you charge it has one charging less left. This ofcourse isn't exactly how it is in practice but charging the battery alot wears it down. It isn't good either to keep it in the charger for a longer time after it's reached a 100%.
Hi,
this is only partly correct:
Suppose the battery can make 1000 (which I don't believe) charge cycles,
it means that you can charge 1000 times from empty to full.
If you just charge 1000 times from 50% empty to full it counts for 500 cycles!
So,
don't worry, let it stay in the cradle if you like
There are 500 opinions about that but believe, as I wrote is correct.
Theo
Yes, what I said wasn't exact science and I used 1000 cycles as an example, but from what I've read it is better to let the battery drain to less than 50% and then charge it full rather than charge 5% at a time. My previous post was meant to illustrate this.
Sent from my Leedroid powered pocketsized supercomputer using XDA App
geenome said:
You should always let the battery run down completely some times maybe once a week.
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Click to collapse
That's a load of crap, no offense... Lithium batteries have no memory effect and have absolutely no need to be completely discharged, that's a ancient thing from the time of nickel-metal hybrid batteries. The only actual reason for full charge cycles is to calibrate the device for that exact battery.
Keeping a lithium-ion battery in a charger most of the time will wear the battery down faster than getting it drain more and then charging it. Keeping the battery almost fully loaded/in a constant loading state wears the battery capacity by approximately 20% a year (can't recall the source/study just now)(EDIT: and my personal experience is that the battery capacity will wear that much anyway, no matter how you use it). The life-cycle of phones these days are roughly two years nowadays so IMO you can keep it in a cradle with no worries, if you wish. And lets face it, a new battery after a year of usage won't be that big an investment after all.
To add to the above post, running down a lithium battery completely does more damage than benefit. This is almost impossible though with normal use as the phone shuts down long before the battery is completely empty
Is this the definitive way to do it?
http://hemorrdroids.net/battery-calibration/
Those steps came from here, xda devs.
1. Run the device down until it turns itself off.
2. Turn it back on and wait for it to turn itself off again.
3. Remove the battery for 10 seconds.
4. Replace the battery, but leave the device off.
5. Charge the device until full and then for another hour.
6 **Root users only** Using a Terminal Emulator, type “su” enter, followed by “rm /data/system/batterystats.bin”
7. Run the device’s battery down until it turns itself off.
8 .Turn the device on and charge for at least 8 hours.
9. Unplug the device, turn off, then charge for another hour.
10. Unplug the device, turn on, wait 2 minutes.
11.Turn off again and charge for another hour.
12. Restart and use as normal.
Quite a performance! Does it preserve battery lifespan, or is it more to do with slowing down battery drain and does it really work?
He mentions 2 interesting things:
"Generally charge them before they get lower than 50%". I didn't know that, so it's actually better to charge more often and not let it drain down?
"USB charging is actually better for the battery and you may get up to 1 hours more standby time." So you gain an hour standby but it takes twice as long to charge the phone.
Nice manual
Will try it
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Some will say that its complete nonsense .
Overcharge for 8 hours ??? how does the battery not turn charging off at 100%
Recharge 50% the accepted figure is not to go below 20% to often .
They may be right or wrong their are so many contrasting views on battery charging .
jje
Discharging battery and then reloading it fully, it's the normal procedure for battery calibration for almost all the devices in the world (including computers, etc.).
Step 8 to 11 seems quite a bit strange however.
hm, just seen a different way to calibrate the battery. basically, you drain the battery, take it out for a couple of minutes, put back in, then try to turn it on to make sure it's completely flat.
then you charge it fully, then boot to recovery and wipe battery stats then drain and fully charge. so... which one is more likely to be the better?
that guy also advises to repeat that 12 step, 1-2 day long tedious procedure "every month or so".
it is lunacy honestly speaking
does it work? did he died ?
LOL I dont understand .... I just read in another day that NEVER LET BATTERY GO LOWER THAN 15% and know I read "drain drain drain" Oh welll ...
I also thought that at 100% the charging process stops.
Although this thread is about battery calibration, these questions about battery charging always pop up.
Battery calibration is the process by which you set your device with your battery data.
Every single battery is slightly different. Although there are minimum stantards to every spec of the battery, each battery is different.
Calibrating your battery is nothing more than setting your phone to the real specs of your own battery (since the phone comes configured with the battery factory standards). For example, your phone may be set to use a battery which maximum charge is 1650 mAh, but your battery has a maximum charge of 1625 mAh. That may be within the acceptable factory standard, meaning you have a normal battery, but that also means that your phone will never indicate a 100% charge after you unplug the charger.
If you calibrate that hypothetical battery, you will "tell" your phone that its maximum charge capacity is actually 1625 mAh, meaning from that on your phone's battery indicator will be more accurate.
For that reason, it is necessary to fully discharge and fully recharge your battery for the calibration process, since your device must read the actual specs (minimum charge, maximum charge, charging current, etc) of the installed battery.
I don't know about how many times this full cicle (discharging and recharging) must be performed, but that is the reason why it must be performed for the calibration to succed.
A DIFFERENT THING is the normal discharging and charging process during normal use of the phone.
In this case, you should NEVER let your battery go under 20% and, what few people know, it also should never go over 95%. This stresses the battery and diminish its life time.
Also, and there's a lot of doubts about this, the lower the charging voltage, the slower the charging process, but the longer the battery life.
High charging voltages (like the one used by the charger sold with the phone, which is around 5V) stress the battery, diminishing considerably its life time.
That is true for all lithium-ion batteries!
Therefore it is better to charge your phone through USB (which uses around 4,3V) than to do it using the charger provided with the phone.
You may be asking "If the charging voltage of the charger provided by the manufacturer stresses the battery, why does the manufacturer provide such charger?"
For purely commercial reasons! Higher voltages mean shorter charging cycles, which please the consummer. Moreover, the battery capacity loss with the factory provided charger is around 15-20% a year (considering "normal" to "heavy" use). That is to say that after a year your battery will only reach 80-85% of the maximum charge it used to reach when it was new. And by that time your manufacturer expects you to consider buying a new phone, with more features.
Summing it up:
- calibration is just the process by which you "tell" your phone what the real specs of your battery;
- in normal use, charging your phone through USB is better than doing it with the manufacturer provided charger;
- try not to let your battery charge go under 20% nor above 95%;
- if you're interested, read more about it at batteryuniversity.com
Spin three times in clockwise direction with left middle finger on your nose while blinking your eyes with the phone plugged in.
Jump in the air 3 times.
Unplug phone.
Thats some messed up instructions.
Do you have any idea what kind of strain you're putting on the battery while doing all that?
All you're gonna get is some extra minutes, maybe an hour but is it really worth it because you're just reducing overall battery lifespan by doing that procedure over and over.
Specially when you constantly keep the battery at 4200mV (full charge) for a long time. You're practically killing it by overcharging.
Transmitted from a Galaxy far far away via XDA telepathy.
m2smoe said:
Spin three times in clockwise direction with left middle finger on your nose while blinking your eyes with the phone plugged in.
Jump in the air 3 times.
Unplug phone.
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Click to collapse
that made me chuckle
Never done a calibration on a battery and most of the time i even didn't let battery to discarge very much and then load it again. Never had a problem with battery life it last how long it should last every time and i've used that battery for years. So the battery "calibration" are kinda useless.
Matriak31 said:
that made me chuckle
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Well then, my job here is done
m2smoe said:
Well then, my job here is done
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Click to collapse
it is indeed...i should follow you just to have more laughs like that cheers
RenatoN said:
Although this thread is about battery calibration, these questions about battery charging always pop up.
Battery calibration is the process by which you set your device with your battery data.
Every single battery is slightly different. Although there are minimum stantards to every spec of the battery, each battery is different.
Calibrating your battery is nothing more than setting your phone to the real specs of your own battery (since the phone comes configured with the battery factory standards). For example, your phone may be set to use a battery which maximum charge is 1650 mAh, but your battery has a maximum charge of 1625 mAh. That may be within the acceptable factory standard, meaning you have a normal battery, but that also means that your phone will never indicate a 100% charge after you unplug the charger.
If you calibrate that hypothetical battery, you will "tell" your phone that its maximum charge capacity is actually 1625 mAh, meaning from that on your phone's battery indicator will be more accurate.
For that reason, it is necessary to fully discharge and fully recharge your battery for the calibration process, since your device must read the actual specs (minimum charge, maximum charge, charging current, etc) of the installed battery.
I don't know about how many times this full cicle (discharging and recharging) must be performed, but that is the reason why it must be performed for the calibration to succed.
A DIFFERENT THING is the normal discharging and charging process during normal use of the phone.
In this case, you should NEVER let your battery go under 20% and, what few people know, it also should never go over 95%. This stresses the battery and diminish its life time.
Also, and there's a lot of doubts about this, the lower the charging voltage, the slower the charging process, but the longer the battery life.
High charging voltages (like the one used by the charger sold with the phone, which is around 5V) stress the battery, diminishing considerably its life time.
That is true for all lithium-ion batteries!
Therefore it is better to charge your phone through USB (which uses around 4,3V) than to do it using the charger provided with the phone.
You may be asking "If the charging voltage of the charger provided by the manufacturer stresses the battery, why does the manufacturer provide such charger?"
For purely commercial reasons! Higher voltages mean shorter charging cycles, which please the consummer. Moreover, the battery capacity loss with the factory provided charger is around 15-20% a year (considering "normal" to "heavy" use). That is to say that after a year your battery will only reach 80-85% of the maximum charge it used to reach when it was new. And by that time your manufacturer expects you to consider buying a new phone, with more features.
Summing it up:
- calibration is just the process by which you "tell" your phone what the real specs of your battery;
- in normal use, charging your phone through USB is better than doing it with the manufacturer provided charger;
- try not to let your battery charge go under 20% nor above 95%;
- if you're interested, read more about it at batteryuniversity.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should post the source for your info, cause I am seeing a lot of incorrect information in here.
If you guys want to learn about your battery, visit the site Battery University
The OEM replacement battery is worth about $10.
Save yourself the stress....use it...charge it when you need to...if the battery ever fails cough up $10.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
The way I would calibrate my batteries is a bit different. Lithium ion batteries don't need to be drained then charged to full AFAIK, and I even remember reading somewhere that draining it is actually only for NiCad batteries. It used to be relevant when phones were using NiCad but not anymore.
Read: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
As such I have read that the universal way to 'calibrate' batteries is by charging to full, using for a couple of mins and charging again.
What I have been doing is:
1. Charge to full when phone is switched off (doesn't matter if it's from 0% or 99%).
2. Switch on the phone, use for 5 mins.
3. Switch off then charge until full.
4. Repeat step 2 once more
That's it! It seems pretty simple but it seems to have worked for me.
The way i do it is different. Firstly i have the battery calibration app from the market by Nema..then i fully charge my phone and when it says its fully charge i go into the app. There it gives me the instructions on how to calibrate...First i wait till i charge the phone without any interruptions. then click on the app and wait til the battery goes to 4200MV and then i press the calibrate button and then the app does it for me. Then i drain the battery again without any interuptions or breaks during that time and then charge it again once battery dies down and thats it.
there are so many ways being touted on the forums you really dont know which one to go for...but whatever works for each person then who are we to tell someone different just thought i share that
If my battery dies, or gets significally lower capacity after 1 or 2 years of usage, I'll just buy a new one if I plan to keep the phone longer.. Going through these rituals and painstakenly monitor my battery % so that it never goes below 20 % or above 95 % is just not worth it.. Doesn't increase the life THAT much anyway.. I use the phone until I hear the beep for low batt, and from there until I have a charger available.. Most of the time it's before it reaches 10 %, thats good enough for me.. Once in a while it might even go so far that it dies.. Then I charge it till it says 100 %.. Most of the times I plug it when going to bed, and let it charge over night.. This is normal usage and what the battery should be designed to handle, and so far it does..
Dear readers,
I am going to buy a new battery for my HD2 but there is a problem.
I would need to train the new battery and charge it full the first time without turning on the HD2 right?
How can i do this when my HD2 keeps turning on by itself? I even think my phone charges when it is off?
My phone runs ics 4 with magldr.
Can anyone help me out?
Just drain the battery normally and charge it when you sleep?
Draining a new battery will make it unusable???
No it will be fine, Li-ion are quite durable & do not have charge state preferences.
Just buy a new battery & put it in your HD2 & use it normally, if charge very low when first turn it on > plug it in & charge to full.
Then why do people and retailers keep advising me to fully charge batteries before first use?
Cause batteries don't come fully charged?!
But if you charge it first how do you know the battery is fully charged without draining it first since battery stats are incorrect?
Hmmm, i have been told that fully charging it at the first time before first use gives u better battery performance and better battery stats. U are telling me the opposite thing lol? You could see it is full by the constant green led? But if it is like you are telling me then that indication would be false?? Do i get it right?
A new batteries capacity should increase after first few cycles as will devices calibration of the new cell.
The Battery itself is dumb & you can use what method you like really with li-ion cells to charge them.
Only issue sometimes seen is devices recognition of cell power level is not shown correctly.
Have recently issued 20 new cells for our HD2 fleet, staff use them as they needed & without stringent charge routines & all is fine.
A little common sense is all that is needed & maybe calibration reset if a problem appears.
4rjan said:
Hmmm, i have been told that fully charging it at the first time before first use gives u better battery performance and better battery stats. U are telling me the opposite thing lol? You could see it is full by the constant green led? But if it is like you are telling me then that indication would be false?? Do i get it right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What if you get a fake/defective battery that only holds 40% capacity and reports that as 80% and you charge the battery to report 100% (which activates the green led). How would you find out that this battery is holding a real 100% charge without draining it first?
With an app that shows u the amount of mAh?
Or is that impossible?
Any app calculating mAh will need a few cycles of the battery to give an accurate estimate. Reading any data direct from a cell is pointless as the cheap cells use chips to display false capacities.
In your circumstances just install new battery & charge while device is on then charge as required & only worry if run time seems very bad.
4rjan said:
With an app that shows u the amount of mAh?
Or is that impossible?
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Click to collapse
Now thats major bull. No app can give 100% correct info about battery capacity.
The only one method of correctly defining battery capacity is by using computerized battery analyzer.
If you want to get most of your new battery(Li-ion/poly):
-first make several charge/discharge cycles(after 5-10 you will get desired OEM capacity)
-charge it with wall charger, do not charge through USB
-charge it whenever you can, even if few % are only used
-avoid complete battery discharge(Lithium cells hate complete discharge!)
-keep it at reasonable temperatures, dry
-and don't buy cheap/promising alternatives. Only OEMs are worth buying. Forget about Mugen Magic(proof: www.batteryboss.org)
Battery apps are not always acurrate. They only measure in certain intervals (and then estimate the other stats), which only tells you the current in that instantance of time and the rest is ignored. Also if you undervolt, sometimes the drain measured higher than usual and the battery percentage becomes erractic (ie increasing after a reboot) that will easily change the estimated capacity.
Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
Lithium ion batteries have come a long way. There is no "memory effect" and conditioning is probably not really all that necessary. If I were you I'd just give it a charge to 100 and use as normal. Might have high drain for the first few days/charge cycles.
Remember that with Li-Ion batteries a "charge cycle" is one complete cycle from 0% to 100%. So by charging when it's at 50% you're only using up one half of a "rated charge cycle" - Battery conditioning shouldn't really be required with modern lithium ion batteries.
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
gaff15 said:
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
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Click to collapse
This makes sense I guess. But wouldn't the battery percentage remaining be based on the voltage in the battery at a given moment? I wouldn't think the phone would need to "learn" that.
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
Xileforce said:
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
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Click to collapse
The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
Ashevar said:
The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
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This makes sense. The article I read awhile back was likely referring to non smart charging systems, such as a battery pack. It makes sense that an integrated solution such as a phone would regulate that to maintain battery health.
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
meyerweb said:
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
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#1 -> Could be a problem. Manufacturers can set the 100% mark at higher voltage to make it look like it has more capacity while sacrificing longevity, just enough to get through the 1 year warranty period. (Lot of powerbanks do this!) Users have no control of this ceiling. Charging to 80% and letting it cycle below that probably keeps the battery much healthier than keeping it plugged overnight at 100%.
There's an app called AccuBattery on playstore that people might want to check out. It's basically an alarm that turns on when the battery is at desired % level. It also cites real research papers so I would trust what they are doing.
I used to have a long post with a detailed technical explanation but lost it.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
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just use the dang phone...
cri[LIST=1 said:
[/LIST]s_epic;65635276]Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
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That's actually a perfect way to ruin your battery on purpose!
Just do these things and Don't worry a lot. And remember, when it does die it's not your fault, it's kind of a problem with Lion batteries!
1. Try to keep the battery between 40-80% or 20-40%. But don't worry if tou can't. Saying this in case you're staying at home all day.
2.Keep the heat away from it!!! This one is important
3. Try to discharge it at a lower rate but don't let that get in the way of you enjoying your device.
4. Try not to discharge below 8% at all. But try to not discharge it below 15-20% unless you have important things to do.
5. don't keep it topped of for a long time (like constant going 90-100%, this is damaging) and don't keep it at 100% for long! (For example turning it off and stop using it for a week, or keeping it plugged for a few days)
If you're storing it keep it at 40% (3.8-3.75V) and try to drain it once in a while. (Unlikely to happen with a phone specially one without a removable battery )
I really do hope someone invents a new type of battery. Lipos are anoyying
Simple you don't need too lol
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