My question is simple...
I have been using QVGA screen devices for a long time and I have invested a good ammount on softwares that display well on QVGA screens.
Now I'm thinking of doing an upgrade and I have pinpointed the HD as my next device, but since I have invested a lot money on softwares, I don't want to upgrade to a new phone and find all these softwares unusable on a WVGA screen.
Will the programs designed for QVGA display properly on a WVGA screen?
My common sense tells me that no, it won't but I have read that it will display without problems.
Any thoughts anyone?
where did you read that it will display with no problems?
Very few apps are made for WVGA and I cannot image that HTC lets this be a show stopper, since it will take years and years before WVGA is as standard as QVGA is.
The same goes for VGA though, which is also just catching on in mainstream, yet my VGA Diamond has no problems running anything whatsoever. Some QVGA apps just get blown up to fit the screen and run just like on a QVGA screen, yet I wonder how this would work when the aspect ratio is no longer 4:3 (as with QVGA, HVGA and VGA) but instead 16:9 (WVGA). Stretching is ugly so with apps that need to maintain the aspect ratio (anything other than apps that can resize infinitely like Operah, Windows Mobile etc) we would likely see black boxes on top of and below the app.
Copy pasted one of my own old posts from another topic, which had the same question but for VGA on the Raphael.
WM has a so-called compatibility mode. If an app is not specifically compiled to tell WM it knows about resolution and DPI settings, WM presents your device to the program as 240x320 QVGA. This way, most QVGA apps simply run on VGA. (And I can verify that at least on the Diamond, most apps just work). WM then simply scales the application to fill the screen. (One way to notice if this is happening with an app is that you can see the text is smooth and looks high-res, except on the menu bar at the bottom)
Actually that was quite a nice move of MS. However, there is a bug with compatibility mode and 320x320 devices (like the Treo800w) that prevents some apps from running. Luckily, the Raphael is not one of those devices.
However, of course, some apps do tell WM they know about resolution and DPI, but aren't made to support 480x640 devices like the Axim v51, Diamond and Raphael, those apps may look weird (though they don't seem to be numerous), but generally still work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I recall correctly, however, non-resolution/dpi-aware applications ran on odd resolutions like WVGA for the Touch HD are still represented as 320x240, and will be stretched to use the entire screen (in other words: fugly). I know this is the case for 320x320, and I think it would be a safe bet to assume the same for 480x800.
For applications that are resolution/dpi-aware, it all depends on how the developers did it. Black border at the bottom and top, correctly scaled, etc, it's all possible and completely up to how the developer handled this in their code.
Chainfire
Thanks for the answer.
That was very well explained.
What I read that it won't have problems was perhaps with the fact that WM will stretch the program to fit the screen, but it wasn't as well explained as your post.
So now I know that it's possible that half of my programs will be stretched on the screen and it will look crappy, the other half will have black borders around...
WVGA Themes
I just wonder if all the (beautiful) themes created for Diamond will be correctly displayed with the Touch HD ?
As I'm creating my own (for Diamond) and first one, I hope I can use it with the HD WVGA screen.
Thanx for informations.
WVGA has the same aspect ratio of the WQVGA
WVGA 480x800 (Touch HD, Sony XPERIA)
WQVGA 240x400 (Samsung Omnia)
Being an owner of a Samsung Omnia I found out that there are very few software that wont run on non a standard QVGA resolution.
Good thing about it is that most important and recently updated software do take into consideration the modern variable display sizes and aspect ratios.
This is a promising trend, software companies tend to release fixes/upgrades for their software for these new resolutions
So I wouldnt worry so much!
ydg said:
I just wonder if all the (beautiful) themes created for Diamond will be correctly displayed with the Touch HD ?
As I'm creating my own (for Diamond) and first one, I hope I can use it with the HD WVGA screen.
Thanx for informations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I recently installed Manilla2d on the omnia, the themes have to be modified for the omnias resolution 240x400 images, backgrounds, icon possitions etc, therefore no theme for diamond will be directly usable with the touch hd, there will have to be modifications on them to work
mkMoSs said:
I recently installed Manilla2d on the omnia, the themes have to be modified for the omnias resolution 240x400 images, backgrounds, icon possitions etc, therefore no theme for diamond will be directly usable with the touch hd, there will have to be modifications on them to work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With this Forum and community and the other WVGA topphone Xperia, these forums will be soon filled with people working on these modifications....
I am not worried at all about this
You can try Force high resolution. You can find it at pocketpcfreeware.com.
Related
I saw some i780 images with RealVGA and I just have to admit it was the best square screen I have even seen for a PPC. This seems precisely what I want for my screen. Could someone please explain what exactly is it, and how it works? and if all softwares are automatically compatible with it, or would I have to sacrifice my software collection in order to use it???
BTW, what screen resolutions does it work with and would my Treo 750 support it??
I always thought you needed a VGA screen to use realVGA or anything like that, so i don't think it would be possible on a treo. Then again i'm not entirely sure so i would wait for someone else to confirm.
RealVGA, essentially, makes everything smaller.
The point of this is to take advantage of a high resolution screen (since WM doesn't). In your case, it will probably make windows unusable as the 240x240 resolution would end up making text so small that it's illegible.
It's mainly meant for 640x480 screens although 480x480 as well as 320x320 screens appear to be usable.
RealVGA, or TrueVGA as I like to call it, basically disables pixel-doubling that WM uses to make all programs work well. This can really only be used on devices that have more pixels than 320x240. So a VGA screen of 640x480 will show 4x the about of data in TrueVGA mode as it would in normal mode.
The downside is that not all programs will work properly. This is a developer issue, and it is best to contact them to resolve this problem. I would suggest putting your device into TrueVGA mode and trying out the programs that you use, and see if you are happy with the results.
I have put a package together in the link below that you can use for testing purposes, and see if it is something you like or not.
Personally I only every use my device in TrueVGA mode as I hate the lost space as a result of the large icons on my x51v. But it will come down to personal preference and you are best to try and see for yourself.
Cheers
Mark
prabhg said:
I saw some i780 images with RealVGA and I just have to admit it was the best square screen I have even seen for a PPC. This seems precisely what I want for my screen. Could someone please explain what exactly is it, and how it works? and if all softwares are automatically compatible with it, or would I have to sacrifice my software collection in order to use it???
BTW, what screen resolutions does it work with and would my Treo 750 support it??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RealVGA actually changes your dpi. The stock i780 is using 128dpi which is something not common. Most devices are using 96 dpi. I believe RealVGA was written is to maximize the available screen. Of course with 96 dpi, the letters are also smaller, and it might pose some difficulty in readin texts on the screen.
However, others are still using RealVGa mainly one can maximize the screen. Also, the display though small, makes it look more sharp.
As to the programs, I'm not sure what you have. For myself, I am using PocketCM (modded to fit in the i780), Audio Manager and the Diamond WM Player Skin (modded to fit in the i780). I also installed the HTC Today plugin.
I also had modded SPB Mobile Shell 2.1 (I've since uninstalled it), I have SBSH Weather (using slikkie's sbsh weather skin). Quite a few software can run under RealVGA, it depends on what you have actually.
Hope this helps.
after install realVGA, my i780 can't make or receive VIDEO CALL
monyozt said:
after install realVGA, my i780 can't make or receive VIDEO CALL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Search for the nadavi 3g dialer for i780. Install and you will be able to make video calls.
Hi,
does it possible (and if somebody tried yet) run RealVGA on HTC HD?
thx
For those who don't know what realVGA is, like myself before here is an explanation:
me2 said:
RealVGA is the name of a freeware application/hack for Windows Mobile 6. It supercedes hacks like oZVGA and TrueVGA which were around for WM5.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=327830
On a device with a VGA 640x480 screen, Windows Mobile uses pixel doubling to emulate a standard QVGA 320x240 screen. This makes most software display exactly the same as it does on QVGA, with the same sized fonts and number of lines etc., but with much smoother fonts.
Worse still, on a device with a 320x320 screen, WM "pretends" the screen is actually 240x240, so displays exactly the same info as you would see on a 240x240 screen (e.g. Treo 750, Ipaq 69xx), but with smoother fonts. Pretty pathetic really, when you consider you have a higher res screen, but can only display less information than a standard 320x240 PocketPC!
Microsoft's reason for all this is to allow you to run any WM application designed for an "old" QVGA screen, without it having to be VGA-aware. Much the same as hi-res 320x320 screens on PalmOS devices pixel-double all the menus and standard Palm applications that were written to work with the "original" 160x160 Palm Pilot screens.
The higher res does allows you to reduce the text size smaller than you would on a QVGA screen (e.g. to 6pt on the Today screen) but still be able to read it, and some applications will use the higher res mode internally if they specifically support it - but you still have to put up with the huge top and bottom status bars and OS menus / limited lines.
What the RealVGA application does is to force Windows Mobile 6 and above to dispense with the emulation and run everything at the native resolution of the screen. So on a VGA screen, all the title bars, menus and fonts are shrunk to 50%. This makes best use of the new hardware, but it also means text can be very small, as effectively you're just shrinking what people used to view on old 12-14" VGA PC monitors down to a couple of inches! This works fine on a 5 or 3.5" screen (e.g. HTC Advantage or Universal) but you need really good eyesight to use it on the common 2.8" VGA screened smartphone.
However, on a 320x320 screen, it works pretty well. I use it on my Samsung i780 and while the text is small, it is perfectly readable, and well worth the extra information you can squeeze onto the screen.
RealVGA allows you to switch between resolutions at will, with just a soft reset required to change. On a VGA device you get the choice of 144, 128 and 96dpi and on a 320x320 screen, 128 and 96dpi (96dpi is the highest res, smallest font mode the screen will do).
As for using it on the new Palms, although originally written for the HTC Advantage, RealVGA worked pretty much straight away on the i780 (which was the first WM device with a 320x320 screen), so hopefully it should be pretty straightforward to use on the Palm. The only real difficulty is with a few programs that use non-scalable graphics that need a bit of tweaking to look right (e.g. phone dialler skins, games etc).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, did anyone try it yet (don't have mine yet)?
On the G900 it worked, so I guess it's quite possible that it will work on the HD, too!
zwuncki said:
So, did anyone try it yet (don't have mine yet)?
On the G900 it worked, so I guess it's quite possible that it will work on the HD, too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey, nobody tried this???
this is one of first thing I will try when I receive my phone next week...
Please, if somebody tried this, which one to download,
and does it work ok??
thx
I tried it and it worked very good. Some menues are too big, and sometimes the error site appears, but most of the time it works almost perfectly. But the 96DPI is way too small, even on such a big display. So I chose 128DPI and it works great.
I tried it on my HD, it works. HOWEVER, phone application doesn't work any more. I can't make or receive calls, even if I return back to original DPI. there is checkbox to disable phone skin, no matter if it is checked or not, my phone application will not run. I just bricked my phone, please help, I don't want to hard reset it and spend another month by tuning it.
I have been a Redfly user for a bit with my HTC S620 (aka Dash aka Excalibur) and was always dissappointed with the number of memory errors I got .... obviously pushing the Excalibur memory to its limits.
I bought the Touch HD mainly so I could have more raw computing power.
The good news is the beta drivers work and connect well albeit with a couple of bugs.
Remote Desktop is a dream giving a correctly oriented 800*480 desktop which is perfectly usable and was one of the main reasons for my upgrade. I cannot work out how to do this natively on the phone but with the Redfly it becomes like using a netbook!
Touchflo is a dog and I have been in touch with the Celio Support guys who are going to deliver a fix in a couple of weeks. Essentially turning off touchflo when the Redfly connects and turning it on again when it disconnects. This is good, in my opinion, because it's just how it worked with the Excalibur and sliding windows.
Opera 9.5 fails to load which is a dissappointment for me because a couple of sites I frequent use php and the native IE has no idea how to render the pages, it seems. Opera 9.5 does the job fine on the Touch HD directly but not through the Redfly. Support suggest a fix for that will come but no timescale as yet. Apparently Opera 8.65 works on the Redfly, though not sure how I can downgrade the browser....any ideas?
If anyone is interested in how these bugs pan out, then please add to the thread.
Best Regards
Mal
Do we have more information on this topic?
Do we have more information on this topic? I'm digging to find out as I'm very interested with the HD and if the Redfly could be the perfect companion for it.
So, the bugs at this moment:
1. Built-in/pre-install Opera does not work.
2. Video playback in the HD (Windows Media and/or other video software) will not show up in the Redfly.
3. TouchFlow 3D does not work, need to be disabled.
lie_ui said:
Do we have more information on this topic? I'm digging to find out as I'm very interested with the HD and if the Redfly could be the perfect companion for it.
So, the bugs at this moment:
1. Built-in/pre-install Opera does not work.
2. Video playback in the HD (Windows Media and/or other video software) will not show up in the Redfly.
3. TouchFlow 3D does not work, need to be disabled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that's pretty much it, though I note Celio have released some more drivers which I'll be trying tonight. The previous beta drivers did not fix the problems I was having with the Touch HD.
They can be downloaded from http://www.celiocorp.com/install/beta/.
I think Celio are trying to fix problems 1 & 3 but I guess 2. is out of scope, in view of hte new device for video playback they just launched.
HTH
Mal
I tried the new "64" beta drivers yesterday and confirm:
Opera still does not work - didn't expect it to.
The automatic turning off and on of Touchflo works and improves the experience on the Redfly immeasurably.
There is some form of bug in many of the apps. It looks like, in my inexperienced view, that the screen is being constantly redrawn. This makes some apps unusable e.g. in mail, which looks a lot better on this version, I can reply to the original author ok, but if I want to add in another contact the add contact screen seems to keep redrawing and flickering making it impossible to add in another contact.
I noticed the same flickering in Remote Desktop but it was limited to the top menu bar as far as I could see.
On the regular Today page, the items on screen regularly "flash" like they are being refreshed constantly.
Another glitch I found when connecting to the Touch when in power save, passworded mode, the Redfly seems to take control with the keyboard, but not of the screen. So I was operating the device using the Redfly keyboard but the screen stayed on the Touch.
I'll feed this back to support and see what they recommend next.
HTH
Mal
Mal Bridgeman said:
Remote Desktop is a dream giving a correctly oriented 800*480 desktop which is perfectly usable and was one of the main reasons for my upgrade. I cannot work out how to do this natively on the phone but with the Redfly it becomes like using a netbook!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me start by saying I LOVE MY REDFLY... got it when I was using an iMate JasJam and then moved to a HTC P3600i and it just works a treat...
Since then I have upgraded to the HTC Touch HD for more processing power...
I do not tend to use the TouchFlo offering on the Touch HD when I am working with it, preferring to turn it off and just use the regular windows format. With this in mind all works a treat except for the fact that because the Touch HD is a WVGA 480 X 800 pixel the screen ratio makes it look big and chunky. BTW - The Opera 9 fix that allows the Redfly to support the browser is great
In fact compared to what the P3600i use to deliver, the the screens look a bit "Lego" - big and chunky, but cute !
I have sent an email off to Celiocorp to see if they are looking at the resolution.
I sent them comparative screen shots of the screen ratio I use to get with the P3600i on the Redfly (2.8-inch QVGA 240 x 320 pixels screen) vs the Touch HD (3.8-inch wide, WVGA 480 X 800 pixel).
Have noticed that the phones in their Evolution program (beta) are as such;
Sony Experia - 3-inch WVGA 800 x 480 pixel
HTC Touch Diamond - 2.8-inch VGA 480 x 640 pixels
HTC Touch Pro - 2.8-inch VGA 480x640 pixels
Samsung Omnia - 3.2-inch NON-STANDARD 240 x 400 pixels
Samsung Portégé G810 - 2.8-inch QVGA 240x320 pixels
Now, while the demand is not great for WVGA they do have the Sony Experia operating on that platform, however they are still providing the RFP6_01040093.cab which is the same for the ones listed above - so I would imagine Xperia users on Redfly would have the same issue.
Considering the phones that are being released in the next six months;
Touch HD - 3.8-inch wide, WVGA 480 X 800 pixel
HTC Touch Diamond 2 - 3.2-inch wide, WVGA 480 X 800 pixel
HTC Touch Pro 2 - 3.6-inch TFT-LCD touch-sensitive screen with 480 X 800 WVGA resolution
Samsung's new T*Omnia - WVGA 800 x 480 pixels
Asus' P835 - WVGA 800 x 480 pixels
Samsung Anycall SPH-W6050: 3-inch wide 800 x 480 pixel
Acer M900 Tempo: 3.8-inch wide 800 x 480 pixel
I have written to them asking if they are going to release a beta that supports the WVGA format? And if so when do you expect it to be available.
I did ask if because the Redfly itself offers WVGA resolution at 800 x 480 pixels - is it because the resolutions are 1:1 that is causes the issue?
Will keep you upd to date with where this gets too....
Asp
Hi all,
Just a quick update.
I have not personally had a response back from Celiocorp but I did notice last night that they had a new beta release on the 19 March and that due to the significant changes between 01.04.00.147 (new release) and the last beta build (01.04.00.93) it is necessary to update both the phone and the REDFLY Firm ware to insure proper compatibility.
They list the main changes as:
[] A new compression mechanism has been implemented and it is found in a new tab in the REDFLY settings called Compression. This compression is turned off by default, but if you primarily connect via Bluetooth, we recommend turning this on. To do this, check the box that says Enable lossy compression. This will slightly reduce the image clarity on your REDFLY while significantly improving the performance speed of the data transferring between your phone and the REDFLY.
[] Several improvements for the Touch Pro, Diamond, and Fuze phones have been implemented which significantly improve the interaction with TouchFLO as well as the phone dialer. If you normally have TouchFLO turned off, the longer delay to load the screen has been eliminated and assorted issues with Font size changing on the phone have been corrected. NOTE: The larger-sized tool and menu bars however have not changed, and will most likely be released as they are now. We continue to work with HTC on this issue and perhaps a solution will become available in the future.
The Epix camera no longer hangs when launched (in a REDFLY session).
The Phone software version is RFP6_01040147.CAB and the Firmware required for the Redfly is RFF_01040147.CAB
As some feedback they upgrade does greatly improve the speed on the Redfly when connected to the Touch HD - so full points on this - but moving from the Lego experience is something I will still wait for. From the look of it they have not added any WVGA phones to their evaluation program...
Cheers
Asp
Hi, I did get my redfly from expansys 1 week ago.
I did install the newest software from Celio and it works fine with my Touch HD !
Only the keyboard should be a QWERTZ
Does anyone know if it is possible, to reprogram this keyboard to QWERTZ and " ä, ö, ü "
Thank you!
T.Brumm - that's great it is working a treat....
I have found that the current beta drivers (http://www.celiocorp.com/smartphone#betaphones) for the Touch HD still a little buggy particularly when you get an incoming call as both the RedFly and the HD hang...
I have just picked up a Dell Inspirion Mini 9 for now and am using it with the RedFly view so I can draft emails while flying for business - but I for now I have given up on the HD RedFly combo. The other thing I find frustrating (see my post above with the images) is the change in resolution. Because both devices are naturally 800 x 480 the text within mobile outlook is very chunky and the guys a few rows back can read what I am typing....
I wish it was working for me...I really love what it stands for...
Asp
Having spent a couple of months trying out the cooked roms I decided to give the RedFly another try. So I had to restore back to the original ROM, then updated to the latest official HTC ROM first, which took a little while to figure out.
I then installed the new 192 drivers and firmware and although it's a while since I used it with my "Dash", I am thinking there's not a great deal wrong with this ...sure I'd like it a bit faster, but functionally I think it's back as the device I wanted it to be.
HTH
Mal
I have noted that the screen on the liberated WinMo shift has blank spaces to the right and to the left of the screen. The combined total area of wasted screen is almost 2 inches. Question is: is there a way one can utilize the full screen with WinMo for the the Today screen and for most of the programmes in their default application? I guess for the programmes that have full screen capability that might be possible. will check on that......
One other question which might be the subject of other threads here: is it possible to change the screen resolution in WinMo side? Sorry if I have asked something that may have been answered elsewhere.
Ed.
If I have understood what you mean ... everything is about switch from 640x480 to 800x480 (wide screen) but it is a well known issue and I think that nobody has been able to make it support the 800x480 resolution.. that's why you get this wasted space.
As the resolution is 640x480, you will never be able to get full today plugin or full screen program with 800x480 resolution... unless you get the 800x480 resolution to work.
You should ask "why not 800x480 by default from HTC?".... simple : no 800x480 support in WM6 sadly !
To get the 800x480 resolution, it first needs a rom with WinMob 6.1 (I think) or later .. which is not easy. And having that kind of rom may still be not enough.
koala996 said:
You should ask "why not 800x480 by default from HTC?".... simple : no 800x480 support in WM6 sadly !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true I'm afraid.
The Toshiba Portege G900 that I used to use runs WM6.0, and it supports 800x480. In fact, IIRC, it has the same CPU as the Shift/WinMo.
Regards,
Dave
Try this app (Danger: It can harm your device)
We use it for resolution switching in toshiba g900.
Just install SdkCerts and then main application. After that - launch WVGAFix.
Post result here if it is good or bad...
Remember - it can be dangerous, but it works great on my G900
I tried it, but only get an error saying "Sorry, WVGAFIX3 can't run on your system!"
I currently have an HTC Touch Pro (version 1) that displays in QVGA and VGA mode. I have numerous shareware apps that I have bought over the years that I greatly value; they all display in QVGA (240x320) mode. Those apps correspond to the era of Windows Mobile 5.0 or 6.1. As such, all the apps display perfectly on the Touch Pro; that is, the programs occupy the entire screen properly.
I am considering to upgrade to an HTC HD (version 1) which has a 480x800 screen. I am curious how my legacy apps will display on this screen.
1) Will my old apps stretch to fully occupy the 480x800? or
2) Would the apps leave a blank strip above or below?
3) Are there any popular shareware apps that are known to not fit this screen properly?
Thanks in advance ...
I think this is what you're looking for.
Enjoy your HD, if you get one!
I presume from that link that Apps written for QVGA will NOT fully occupy a WVGA screen.
Oh pooh!
Thanks for the link to W_VGA_Fix.
I don't like the idea that I will have to run that utility each time I run my old Apps. And I presume that I have to later rerun that utility to revert to WVGA format else TouchFlo and the native Apps probably won't display properly.
sadly that's the only way to run non res aware apps made for qvga
What is displayed on the screen when an QVGA program is run on WVGA screen (without using WVGAFIX)?
- Does it run at all?
- Is the screen full of garble?
- Is a portion of the screen inaccessible?
- In other words, is the program somewhat useable albeit less attractive?