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Does anyone have experience using 3rd party chargers with the Treo Pro or HTC devices in general?
I've purchased a kensington 4-port USB wall charger. It's an interesting concept which allows you to plug in up to 4 USB cables (iPods, iPhones, Treo Pro) and only use one outlet. A neat trick when you have multiple phones and devices in your family.
My problem is that the kensington won't charge the Treo Pro. When I plug it in, the LCD lights up, but the charge indicator does not appear nor does the tone sound that it has been plugged in. Note, as far as I can tell the Treo Pro charger outputs 5v DC exactly the same as the Kensington charger.
I've read several posts that lead me to believe that HTC does something to their devices that only allow certain chargers to work or that their USB cables have a certain pin-out that allows them to charge. Anyone have any advice?
Thanks!
Well, I got my wall charger and car charger from Officemax. The charger brand is "Just Wireless". Both are working fine for me. Before, I tried to use the sync cable to plug the regular USB power adapter for wall or car charger, some work, some don't. It seems Palm modified the micro-usb cable...
So my suggestion, if you are looking for charger for Treo Pro, you should look for compable with Moto R9 (which using micro-usb plug, too) I used to have one Moto charger, It worked in my Treo Pro!
jbinmn said:
My problem is that the kensington won't charge the Treo Pro. When I plug it in, the LCD lights up, but the charge indicator does not appear nor does the tone sound that it has been plugged in. Note, as far as I can tell the Treo Pro charger outputs 5v DC exactly the same as the Kensington charger.
I've read several posts that lead me to believe that HTC does something to their devices that only allow certain chargers to work or that their USB cables have a certain pin-out that allows them to charge. Anyone have any advice?
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There's really nothing "special" going on here. It's all in the USB spec. http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power
That said, there are few other devices that demand a dedicated charger (or a communicating host), so in that sense it is special.
The problem being that the TP won't draw more power than agreed upon with the host (or in this case the carger). And since your charger doesn't tell the Treo that is has power to spare, the Treo trying being a good little device won't start charging.
Now, for the charger to tell the Treo that it is, in fact, a dedicated charger and "go ahead, draw as much power as you want up to 1.8A" it would only have to short its data pins.
Now that is something YOU could do to get the charger to work with your Treo. Either open the charger and solder the data pins (the two middle ones in a normal sized usb socket). Or if you can't for some reason, slice a micro-usb cable open and short the two data (usually the thinnest (green/white maybe)) wires inside.
I got a couple of desktop chargers from ebay for about £8 each. Work fine.
frause said:
There's really nothing "special" going on here. It's all in the USB spec. http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power
That said, there are few other devices that demand a dedicated charger (or a communicating host), so in that sense it is special.
The problem being that the TP won't draw more power than agreed upon with the host (or in this case the carger). And since your charger doesn't tell the Treo that is has power to spare, the Treo trying being a good little device won't start charging.
Now, for the charger to tell the Treo that it is, in fact, a dedicated charger and "go ahead, draw as much power as you want up to 1.8A" it would only have to short its data pins.
Now that is something YOU could do to get the charger to work with your Treo. Either open the charger and solder the data pins (the two middle ones in a normal sized usb socket). Or if you can't for some reason, slice a micro-usb cable open and short the two data (usually the thinnest (green/white maybe)) wires inside.
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Hi!
Yep i just bought two kensington 4 port chargers and looks like it doesnt charge the TP
Im about to buy a microusb cable to do the trick you suggested, (i cant seem to open the Kensington 4 port!), any reference websites you could suggest that could explain abit more about the shorting of the data wires inside? Just like to read up abit more before the cable arrives
Thanks!
shorting two center pins solves problem
Thank you for the details. I was able to get two car chargers to work with Palm cables after opening them up and shorting the middle pins with a dab of solder. I opened up a non-Palm cable and discovered only two wires, red and white, and no surprise: it did not work even with the "fixed" adapters. So you need to have pins shorted, and a cable that can return the short to the Treo from the adapter, or if you have a cable with all leads inside you could short the two wires instead and leave the adapter alone. However, if you only have two wires inside the cable you would have to short inside the micro plug, which is a little cramped to work in. If you have only two wires in your cable (hard to tell really without cutting it open; too small to get a continuity probe in there), and/or an adapter without the pins shorted, the Treo will not pull current and charge itself.
The Wikipedia USB Spec referenced by frause above says in part:
" A Dedicated Charging Port can supply a maximum of 1.8*A of current at 5.25*V. A portable device can draw up to 1.8*A from a Dedicated Charging Port. The Dedicated Charging Port shorts the D+ and D- pins with a resistance of at most 200O. The short disables data transfer, but allows devices to detect the Dedicated Charging Port and allows very simple, high current chargers to be manufactured."
An interpretation of the reported observations and this spec is that a charger can communicte to the device under charge the maximum current the charger is able to supply. This communication occurs by the charger either "shorting" the data pins or not. Non-shorted data pins indicates that the charger is capable of at most 500 mA. Its possible that the Treo Pro(TP) is smart enough to know it should conserve power when being charged from a low current charger. One way for the TP to conserve power would be to not power the LED on the TP if there is only 500 mA available for charging.
NOTE THAT IF THIS INTERPRETATION IS TRUE THEN IT IS ACTUALLY DISADVANTAGEOUS TO ARTIFICIALLY SHORT THE DATA PINS.
Hello, I've just bought an emergency charger for my Kaiser. It takes the power from an AA battery and gives the USB voltage in the output. It works great with my Mio A 501, but doesn't work at all with the Kaiser. I did a quick search and found this in a discussion about car chargers:
Are you using the HTC charger or an OEM one?
The HTC charger works all the time the OEM ones don't - the reason being that if you use a normal Mini USB cable, the handsets will only take a charge if there is an indication of a data connection (either than gprs or the cable) - otherwise it won't take a charge.
You can apparently solder a couple of wires together on a normal mini USB cable - but I wouldn't know where to start on that!
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Now I've already heard of that, for example, a Play Station Portable needs the data wires in the USB grounded in order to charge. Is it the same with Kaiser? (putting three wires together isn't a big deal) Or is there an easier way how to make it charge?
So, I gave it a try and soldered the data wires with the ground wire. But when I try to charge the Kaiser, a yellow led starts to glow (which it didn't with the original cable) and, after a minute or two, the led goes off and Kaiser stops charging. When I turn the Kaiser off and then plug the cable in, the yellow led doesn't go off. However, when I turn Kaiser back on to check the battery meter (after about half an hour), I find out that the battery didn't take any charge at all. So, could anyone tell me what the problem is?
thanks, Mike
PS.: Adding some photos of the wires...
Probably because of the voltage...
Hey!
Have you checked the output voltage of this charger? Standard charger outputs 5V. If yours outputs less - the battery won't charge; if outputs more - you may "burn" your PDA chipsets
5V - 5.5V is safe range.
I found this on thinkgeek.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/b43f/
It says for iPhone, but sure it would work just fine with other devices that have issues.
had a same problem but using it in the car...
when i got my tytn2 i immediately bought a car charger and the salesman told it's an original one, said output 5v 1A.. when using in the car it charged for a minute or two and went off... than i got from ebay a micro usb 1A charger (used for iPhone too) and tried in the car-> it work flawlessly
Just got a new motheboard which has high output USB charging for iPhones, pads etc.
Can this work on N1 ?
http://gigabyte.com/MicroSite/185/on-off-charge.htm
edit: driver link is at the bottom for all the hackers. Hopefully its just changing string from apple to android hehe
kazprotos said:
Just got a new motheboard which has high output USB charging for iPhones, pads etc.
Can this work on N1 ?
http://gigabyte.com/MicroSite/185/on-off-charge.htm
edit: driver link is at the bottom for all the hackers. Hopefully its just changing string from apple to android hehe
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Hopefully not, I dont want my nexus one to be iphone.
But as you know nexus one is using qualcomm motherboard.
But aslong cyanogen and fm transmitter is working there is no problem wiith your phone.
Dear lord what a crappy reply. Stick to disney mate.
It should, it basically just converts the USB port from .5 amps to 1 amp, like a wall charger.
elkyur said:
Hopefully not, I dont want my nexus one to be iphone.
But as you know nexus one is using qualcomm motherboard.
But aslong cyanogen and fm transmitter is working there is no problem wiith your phone.
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WTF??? May want to lay off the halucinogenics
elkyur said:
Hopefully not, I dont want my nexus one to be iphone.
But as you know nexus one is using qualcomm motherboard.
But aslong cyanogen and fm transmitter is working there is no problem wiith your phone.
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lol I seriously hope this is a joke!
I agree with JCopernicus, it should definitely work.
I installed the software in the first post but it still charges very slow compared to wall outlet
Slightly OT, but I've got a USB adapter that plugs into the wall that came with my iphone and when I plug the N1 USB cable into this to charge the N1, it still charges very slowly compared to using the proper wall adapter, why is this? Does this iphone adapter restrict the voltage or something?
Generally, "charger detected" is a circuit that has USB data pins shorted together. So when the phone's USB device probes the lines and detects them shorted, it knows it's connected to a power supply.
But since USB max current spec is 500mA, the current draw is restricted - either by the phone or by the supply.
There might be some other connectivity trick that allows the phone to know it can draw x2 current from the socket and won't damage anything. Most phones probably don't limit the current draw and count on the board to do it. Some boards don't limit the current output, or limit it higher. And the fast chargers provide pulsing voltage - which isn't like USB.
So for the board to be able to charge the device, it needs to detect a device that can use pulsing voltage, and enable such voltage on the socket. It doesn't detect Nexus as such a device, I believe, and that's why the charging is slow.
Faster charging with USB
Building on Jack_R1's response, I believe that the phone is limiting the charge rate. You can make the phone "realize" it is connected to a charger rather than a data connection by shorting the 2 middle USB pins together. I have done this in several car chargers, and the N1 About/Status shows charging (AC), which is the faster charge mode. While you can short the pins in the larger end of a dedicated USB cable, if you can disassemble the connector, I found it much easier to open the charger itself to short the pins.
i also have a gigabyte mobo that has this feature but i havent gotten around to test it out yet. I dont think it would work because the feature is software based and will only bump up the voltage if the program detects an iphone connecting to your computer. Gigabyte doesnt want to be liable if they bump up voltage on every device you plug in and fry something.
btw I have tried charging my n1 from my computer and its extremely slow. started charging at around 5pm on sunday and at 11pm it went from about 23%-97% lol.
Yes, USB charging is very slow. It's actually good for the battery, though.
Maybe someone with some know how can look at the driver files for this 3x tech and see how it checks if its an Apple device. Then fool the check and presto!
Shame I don't know how to do any of this
There is a simple hardware (don't worry, it's on the cable) mod for faster charging; however, make sure the phone has good air vent (it means NO CASE when charging).
1. modify your microUSB cable, disconnect the data connector the A (host) plug, then shorten the data connector to the B plug. (This can charge N900 properly, and speed up n1 charging).
2. modify your powered (with AC adapter plugged) USB hub. Simply shorten the #2 and 3 connectors on USB jack. Make sure you cut the copper strip going to the chip or malfunction may occur.
These modification can greatly speed up the charging, but phone will produce a lot of heat (that's why you must have the phone "naked").
I don't understand this. If the phone + battery are capable of being charged at 1000 mAh from the wall charger then why need extra cooling when asking for 1000 mAh from a PC USB socket?
Mine's still defo getting only 500 mAh from the PC USB despite it being able to give up to 2700 mAh for iPad!!! All I want is my 100 mAh charge.
Because what he suggests isn't a proper charging but rather removal of slot power control, and will damage the battery / phone, if succeeds.
Proper charging at 1000mAh requires pulsing voltage - his hack doesn't provide that. Your MB does, but it requires SW intervention to turn it on.
So can someone brew the intervention ?
martinl1030 said:
i also have a gigabyte mobo that has this feature but i havent gotten around to test it out yet. I dont think it would work because the feature is software based and will only bump up the voltage if the program detects an iphone connecting to your computer. Gigabyte doesnt want to be liable if they bump up voltage on every device you plug in and fry something.
btw I have tried charging my n1 from my computer and its extremely slow. started charging at around 5pm on sunday and at 11pm it went from about 23%-97% lol.
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They are not doing anything to the voltage, simply allowing more current to pass.
And as said in this thread, any typical data USB cable will charge very slowly. And most standard USB ports charge well less than the max specced 500mAh, in fact my subnote at work I found charged my old phone at around 150mah one time when I was dead and needed to top off and it's all I had available.
i'm not sure of the pinout on the micro USB port but i'm pretty sure that that the Mini USB-B port that was used on phones like the G1 used shorting the -Data pin to the unused 5th pin (actually pin 4 on the connector pinout) to activate AC charge mode. some devices actually require a resister of a certain value to be placed across them to work(i know older motorola phones did like IDEN's)
one thing people often forget but should not forget is that current is drawn from the device using power. its not forced on the device. voltage is forced on a device and while a variance is usually ok for devices depending on how they were designed generally its not a good idea to exceed +1.5v on any low power DC device. 120V AC devices are designed to actually work in a much wider range like 100-130V but thats because of the power supply/nature of AC power. it always varies and in japan they use 100v 60hz AC so many electronics power supplies are designed to work in the full range to save costs and only have to make 1 unit for all (same deal with 220-240 switches on PC power supplies)
the reason why you don't want to do this mod is you could damage you PC's motherboard by pulling too much current from its circuits. USB spec is 500ma. performing this type of mod on a power adapter (car or AC) that does not get recognized as an AC charger by the phone is a safer way to go. worst case senario is you break the charger (unless you mess up on the pinout then you could damage you phone too though)
Has anyone torn down a car charger to direct wire the car charger into a vehicle?
Why not just use an inverter and plug it into that?
Car Charger
partin_us_99 said:
Has anyone torn down a car charger to direct wire the car charger into a vehicle?
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Why tear one down. You would have to completely redesign and rebuild it. The plug and wire is about all you would be able to use.
This is kinda pricey but I think this is what you want:
powerstream. com/ADC-p006. htm PST-YD100W
There is a couple of things to consider.
1. A car electrical system typically runs from about 9 volts on the low side to about 15 volts on the high side taking in consideration noise spikes maybe more in very short spikes.
2. your tablet is designed to run very close to 12 volts probably + or - 5% or 11.4 to 12.6 volts it may work okay up to + & - 10% or may not.
3. the adapter must be able to supply 12 volts @ at least 1.5 amps - you can find this value on your AC Adapter that came with your tablet.
So while the car may still run down to ~10 volts the tablet would likely have problems. Regulators normally take the input voltage and use a couple of volts to regulate. So if the input is 12 volts the output is going to be around 10 volts - to low for the tablet to work reliably. In most cases the car regulator when charging outputs around 14.4 volts. That on the other hand would work. One solution and the one I believe is used by the device from the power stream website is to use a voltage multiplier or DC to DC converter that amplifies the voltage then regulates it down to what is needed.
By the way it also comes with a bunch of plug adapters to match the jack on the tablet.
Regards,
- Phil
Found an article on hard wiring it with an add a circuit so I'm gonna do that. This isn't my first car wiring rodeo so it'll work. Thanks for all the replies I'll keep y'all updated
Sent from my GT-N7005 using xda app-developers app
I used an old Nokia 636 plug that I had that has the 3X1mm tip needed and spliced it into a mini usb car adapter, that was for my Tilt2 at the time, right after the fuse so I could power my phone and A500 simultaneously. It's been working fine for over a year and a half, I still use the Tilt2 as my dash cam. The Tilt2 plug also has an extra full usb port and friends and family will occasionally use that to charge their phones on trips so that one plug powers 3 devices and works fine.
So go for it, you will be fine.
Does it damage the Board or not?
I accidentally did connect 5v for a second or so,
it did power on, i disconnected immediately, and after that it didnt power on for several hours,
but not sure if it was because of the interruption during boot, or overvoltage.
Can somebody confirm?
(i cant use a diode for voltage reduction, its a bit complicated, i use a load sharing capable solar charger board etc)
its a nook simple touch
Yow, don't do that!
Ok, it should be able to take it, but still.
I've often fed 4V to devices which had their battery blow up.
In worst cases I've used a diode for drop, but the voltage can be pretty variable over load.
The uboot on most things will not continue if there is zero voltage on the battery.
Also, the peak current of a device can go up to 600 mA or more at times.
That kind of current often can't come in through the USB connector.
Finally, battery packs have ID connections and thermistor.
Entirely disconnecting a battery pack will often prevent booting even when voltage is present.
If you have a dead battery pack always keep the the connector, cable and tiny PCB inside.
Attach a power supply to where the naked cells used to connect to the PCB.
For wiring of the battery pack see: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=42552349&postcount=5
thanks, 2 weeks ago i prepared to measure possible resistors but did a google search before, found your description...
i use the protection board with a 18650 3000mAh lithium manganese (to prevent blow (up)) etc cell and charge it externally,
which requires switching between charging the batt + powering the nook over the batt terminals,
and using the batt for powering the nook , all that while the usb keyboard is connected and in use,
this is done via relay and a really big capacitor, which works great but is a bit ghettostyle.
i tried to use another charger board with load sharing circuitry instead,
but the only easy available module requires 5v minimum input, passes this 5v to load if the ac adapter is plugged in,
if not, it passes the battery voltage to load,
so a diode(+ parallel resistor to maintain voltage drop) or LDO doesnt work because it would at least steal around 0,5 v,
which is to much reduction for the battery voltage, because the nst powers off at ~ 3,7v,
easiest would be to just let the 5v to the nook but seems no good idea.
anyways, it works with the relay