Database Users

xda-developers....proposal

"we should create a newbie forum!"
i ve seen this post in a discussion in reply to someone who was asking for some help and explications.
i do now understand the sarcastic and ironic nature of the reply,but i also would like to point out that is very difficult for beginners(same as me) to understand all of the terminology and issues that are going on in the forum.i believe is also problematic to find the answer some people are looking for (even trying with the search button) and almost inevitably, some questions end up in being asked twice or more by different users.
i know this is an informative as well as technical website but i personally find almost no differences between the "General discussion" or the "Programmers corner", and the forum end up in being instructive only for few and rather confusing for many.
So why not?why not create a newbie forum, like cynical suggested, or (this is my proposal) an explainatory page where listed all the vocabulary that you guys are using here?and maybe why not.... a catalog of all the stupid questions beginners like ma are afraid to ask..
this is only a suggestion and is not intended to be provocative at all...:wink:
ciao.
emiliano

I second that. I have asked a years worth of idiot's questions in the last 12 hours... Thanks for the idea.

We ought to have some sticky posts in that forum of the most common questions and step-by-step guides on troubleshooting. We should maybe start a list of possible topics on this thread.
I vote for:
1. How do I use the XDAtools program to change my ROM?
2. How do I use the XDAtools program for the "SD method" of flashing?
3. How do I upgrade my radio stack (be sure to mention how dangerous this can be )
4. How do I use a ROM kitchen?
5. I've screwed during flashing. How can I recover?
I know of few of these answers now, I can help if the mods are kind of busy. I'll stay away from #3 though

"Stickies" are a good idea first I think.
No-one like to go to 'newbie' forums (i would guess)....unless it was called 'start here first!' forum....but something would be good.
..lance

Can the abuse be toned down please?

Dunno what people's beef is on here ?
Yes there are new members and so on, but some of the foul mouthed attacks I have seen here is disgraceful.
If your mother/wife/daughter or whatever logged on here would you want her to be subjected to such abuse ? No? Thought so!
Tone it down please - if you don't have anything constructive to add to a post, don't bother.
If it makes you feel better about yourself because you feel superior as you know more about HTC/Windows mobile etc. than other people - go back to your ZX81 or whatever but please stop the swearing and nastiness.
Sorry, just never seen such animosity on a forum in my life!

I wish I could say I feel your pain man, but I am a noob as well however I feel the more seasoned vets on here are just tired of the same stupid repetitive questions typically posted by none other than us new guys. I am not saying its right but the way I see it, its kinda like having a little brother or sister that keeps asking the same question over and over and over again while your trying to get something done. My occupation is sales and has been for almost a decade and the first thing I always try and do is look at something from all sides. In doing this it A) Makes me do a search before asking and B) Not feel as bad if I get checked by someone. Just my .42. Additionally I have found if I really cannot find something then I will pm someone I feel is approachable and let them educate me.

From what I have seen lately, the "abuse" has toned down big time around here, were you recently flamed or something, that made you think this?

donzx6 said:
If your mother/wife/daughter or whatever logged on here would you want her to be subjected to such abuse ? No? Thought so!
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bit sexist

Truly!
ChaoticDruid said:
From what I have seen lately, the "abuse" has toned down big time around here, were you recently flamed or something, that made you think this?
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I agree. The replies on this site have become MUCH more mature, helpful, and professional in the last few weeks.
I hope you're not referring to 'now' ... or maybe you're reading through the historical posts to avoid getting flamed.
This is another reason why, no matter how many times a question's been asked, the old-timers should carefully think about the legacy their words will leave behind on these forums.
I find the repeated questions unbearable sometimes, too. But the historical traces of the blatant abusive and immature replies will live with these boards for a very long time, making it unlikely that anyone will like to search for an answer before posting the same question over and over and over and....
-pvs

swtaltima said:
I wish I could say I feel your pain man, but I am a noob as well however I feel the more seasoned vets on here are just tired of the same stupid repetitive questions typically posted by none other than us new guys.
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They make the choice to read the questions then respond in an abusive manor. Its not like a brother or sister who hunt you down to annoy you. I have tried searching for a good tutorial on how to build packages and what not to build my own ROM but the usual thread I see is, "Google It and learn it the way I did." It almost like no one really wants to share their knowledge on certain areas of ROM building. I've tried googling etc. But I have still not run across a decent tutorial. I'd be willing to help make a tutorial if I knew the complete process. I've seen others claim this forum is for XDA "developers" and if you are not a developer you should look elsewhere for "help." The only way to become a developer is to learn. Most people learn by reading and asking questions. I just don't understand why people insist on berating others for asking innocent questions. I have searched for answers before and not found it. Then later I am reading a thread and I do see the answer to my question but it was not worded the way I say things possible because of language differences. So it slipped throught the cracks of the search. Should I be verbally abused for asking my question? Probably not, especially seeing as how the diversity on this forum is great. Many different primary languages and knowledge levels. It seems like before ROM cooking for Hermes was possible people were all fine and cordial with each other. Then boom, cooked ROMs became possible and it turned into if you cant help me finish my ROM and let me put the donte link in my signature I don't want to help you.
Well thats my take.
PS- if someone helps me grasp the art of ROM building I will make a tutorial and do my best to make it simple to understand for everybody.
Jokinawa

There are still a few bad apples around thou & most of us know them but just keep to our selfs, too much of that n00b flame go read wiki or search google, they can tell you to read the wiki but too lazy to type a quick fast reply to a simple question....

I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s

jokinawa said:
They make the choice to read the questions then respond in an abusive manor. Its not like a brother or sister who hunt you down to annoy you. I have tried searching for a good tutorial on how to build packages and what not to build my own ROM but the usual thread I see is, "Google It and learn it the way I did." It almost like no one really wants to share their knowledge on certain areas of ROM building. I've tried googling etc. But I have still not run across a decent tutorial. I'd be willing to help make a tutorial if I knew the complete process. I've seen others claim this forum is for XDA "developers" and if you are not a developer you should look elsewhere for "help." The only way to become a developer is to learn. Most people learn by reading and asking questions. I just don't understand why people insist on berating others for asking innocent questions. I have searched for answers before and not found it. Then later I am reading a thread and I do see the answer to my question but it was not worded the way I say things possible because of language differences. So it slipped throught the cracks of the search. Should I be verbally abused for asking my question? Probably not, especially seeing as how the diversity on this forum is great. Many different primary languages and knowledge levels. It seems like before ROM cooking for Hermes was possible people were all fine and cordial with each other. Then boom, cooked ROMs became possible and it turned into if you cant help me finish my ROM and let me put the donte link in my signature I don't want to help you.
Well thats my take.
PS- if someone helps me grasp the art of ROM building I will make a tutorial and do my best to make it simple to understand for everybody.
Jokinawa
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By the way, they do hunt people down with PM, e-mail, IM, etc...
Here my take
The Art of ROM building does not happen overnight and it is not for everyone. You are also correct there are no A-Z tutorials on how to do it. Nonetheless, there is a lot of information on how to get your feet wet. It requires certain skill set in order to develop good cooked ROM.
Skill set: Search and Read both threads and wiki, Development (someone with a development background is preferred), Cab (building and extracting) PPC registry, Windows Mobile OS (understanding how things work), device infrastructure (understanding how things work with that particular device, because they are not all made equal), understanding you could brick your expensive device with the one wrong turn. Most important patience and keep you changes to a minimum until you get the hang of it.
The list of requirements can go on but I figure with the above information you should have an idea. It takes months of reading, searching, and trying things out in order to understand how to cook. While you are researching you also want to keep with new findings, that means you have to stay on top of up coming new threads. It is a crazy cycle and some of us can keep up with it but I assure you it is not for a lot PPL.
Oh, I forgot one more thing, you also have keep up with your full time job (you know, the one you get paid for).

Thank You
lpsi2000: Thank you. I almost have it down. The only issue I had was one of my apps did not make the start menu icon and I posted it in a thread directed towards one of the kitchens and thus far has been ignored for a week or so. I posted what I put in the initflashfiles.dat etc. It makes a shortcut but appears as a folder link to the /Windows directory and not a shortcut to the EXE. I will get it eventually though.
DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread.
mrvanx: Yes, you are always very helpful.
Thank You all.
jokinawa
<polish>Shines his new Senior Member badge.</polish>

I agree that is has gotten much better in the past few weeks. I also use the ignore list to block out a couple of folks who repeatedly belittle others with their uneducated and profane flaming.

Here is my take. WTF cares
you want a bucket to catch those tears?

jokinawa said:
lpsi2000: Thank you. I almost have it down. The only issue I had was one of my apps did not make the start menu icon and I posted it in a thread directed towards one of the kitchens and thus far has been ignored for a week or so. I posted what I put in the initflashfiles.dat etc. It makes a shortcut but appears as a folder link to the /Windows directory and not a shortcut to the EXE. I will get it eventually though.
DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread.
mrvanx: Yes, you are always very helpful.
Thank You all.
jokinawa
<polish>Shines his new Senior Member badge.</polish>
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The way I get around some of the issues with applications not working properly, I flashed the ROM, take a copy of device registry and files then install the app on the device and then compare it to see what was changed. From there I normally address it with my cooked ROM.
I must disagree with this comment " DAFTEK: I totally agree. Why say use search or the wiki when you could post a link to the search results or the exact thread." although I have done it at time when the search is not obvious.
If you spoon feed the search every time, then the person will never learn how to search. I have seen PPL on this board expecting other people to do search for them and also provide the answers. Trust me there are a lot of lazy people on this forum.

mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
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Exteremely, MrVanx... EXTREMELY! Only to be outdone by your wonderful guides...easy to follow and up to date. You provide a wonderful service to these forums, and I always look forward to your posts.
Sorry I haven't yet made a donation in your direction. It will be coming soon.
All the best,
-pvs

austinsnyc said:
Here is my take. WTF cares
you want a bucket to catch those tears?
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Easy there bro... that kinda attitude got the elf kicked out of the house...

You know I would go easy just everytime my faith is restored in the people here the stupid bug seems to bite again. like asking questions that where answerd in a post right above or someone wanting to be spoon fed its almost to the point where no one wants to do anything for themselves. that's pretty sad if you ask me im sure most of the cooks here did not receive the amount of help that has been given in just the past month. I understand helping people but I also understand earning respect and until that's done give me a reason why I should spoon feed when there is a search button and google.

mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
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pretty obvious answer(s)

why create another thread in 'Hermes Mobile 6', this should be put in the 'General Section'
and as far as i have seen it the abuse has been dramatically in the past few weeks

Sometimes the abuse is (IMHO) justified.
This post generally makes my blood boil http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=311698 - the asshole keeps appearing in many guises, doesn't want to help but only make money. If this is the first post you see when you log on you get pissed off, then get carried away with the 'Flashing LSVW bricked my V3' type of threads.
In my opinion, ronfin44 was perfectly justified in (mildly) flaming this guy.

mrvanx said:
I just wanna know but have my replies been helpful?? :s
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Awww fishing for praise now? ahhahah!
Of course it's been helpful.. Honestly, I'm pretty impressed with the impartial, well thought replies that you always give.
[mumbles]Wish I could say the same for me hee hee![/mumbles]

Many closed treads

In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.

NEO130 said:
In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.
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I don't agree, since this forum is very large (2,385,084 members and 404,458 threads). To prevent it from cluttering, but also to keep the forum clean and easy to find the information you need I find it necessary to close and or move threads which are obsolete/duplicate and threads which are clearly opened without searching.
So I am glad we (Xperia subforums) have an active moderator who is keeping a close eye on the subforums.
I find that it does wonders for the clearness of the subforums!

Agreed, when I look for a solution for a problem, I want the [FIX] topic instead of dozens of 'My ... is broken, help meee!'-topics..

NEO130 said:
In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.
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not many answers yet, what a shame...
ok, I'd like to add my point of view to be considered and commented on
the last months (nearly all of the time I'm a member here) the X1 forums got very little moderating activity, mostly because those moderators assigned to this part either got a new device and "moved" on and/or focused their activity on development/cooking
the little moderating that took place within that time happened when one of the other moderators "visited" here or were personally notified to interact on one behalf or the other
I'm and have been quite active especially on X1, trying to help, now on a somewhat larger scale, so it's small wonder moderating activity increased significantly after my nomination
in contrast to the last months this might appear a lot of interaction from me on behalf of the forum, in my opinion it's now on a reasonable/normal level
I'm doing nothing than abiding by and ensuring the forum rules, which I'm sure everyone here read at least once...
in case you think my actions unjustified, tell me about it
I've seen lots of threads opened on issues raised and successfully answered numerous times already, some even still on the same page as the new one
a lot of my previous posts derive from helping with other members questions whose answer I often had to research myself...which I did...and I then often wondered: when I'm able to find the solution (mostly within minutes) why didn't the one who opened that new thread find it him-/herself? no search? to cursory search? too lazy?...
this all adds up and we are not only talking about X1, it's all over the forum so it's not as limited as (only) talking about server capacity, we are especially talking about misleading search results, cluttered forums, untidiness, confusion, forum losing appeal to users... and all that's related
keeping threads open would/will/did lead to off-topic comments, adding to above mentioned problems
I like a good joke/funny comment as anyone here, but that's usually not dev/app/theme related and normally does not belong there (at least not on a noticeable scale)
if you are interested in that kind of threads/discussions visit forum general discussion and it's subs (like off-topic)
I also think you haven't been in a German kindergarten for some time, they have a good set of rules there, too, for the kids as well as for the grow-ups
so, comments/opinions/feedback pls
Mod edit: not dev related, moved to general

DK you said it all, and I completely agree.
A perfect example is what is happening in the Android development board for the Sony Ericsson X10. Without the mods moving and closing topics, it would become a clutter of useless threads making the good threads lost. Even now there are more threads moved or closed than open
Even your current post does not follow the guidelines as to how the title should look...
tnyynt said:
For questions, use:
[Q]description
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Things are surprisingly simple and straightforward here: pay attention, read, search and search again prior to asking/posting. Nobody wants to do someone else's research. Between the stickies on each board, forum rules, moderator's announcements and extremely helpful mods like DK, there really should be no confusion one
Likewise, any post I have seen made by DK have been polite, respectful and always points the user in the correct direction prior to closing threads.
So thank you to all mods for cleaning up the forums!
Considering this is XDA-Developers (a developer based community) I believe most users should stay silent (since they are not developers) unless it is helpful to the community. I myself personally really do not like sifting through threads asking the same questions that are answered it in the stickies
.

reading instead of asking
hei all!
first: i agree to dk and muo.
why?
why are we here? we use a fine peace of hardware and are unsatisfied with the software of SE and MS and we are more ore less tech geeks.
the original x1 with wm6.1 and panels does anything a phone has to do and much more.
but if you decide that is not enough and flash a custom rom (and to loose your warranty if you dont restore stock spl) is'nt it reasonable to learn sth about what you are doing? at least the different roms, the different ways of flashing.
i'm a "dumb user", i dont know much about cooking and to be honest im to lazy to do this but im so happy about the great work of all the devs here. i tried many roms in GER and WWE, in sense2.1 or 2.5, clean roms and others with lots of apps, i use uc and sashimi and this is my second post. why? because i read the great tutorials and use the search function and i found ALWAYS a solution for my problem.
a question like "i flashed R3AA013. why do i still have wm6.1?" is unnessesary.
to cut it short my opinion is: be willing to learn a little bit about what you are doing or leave your x1 as it is!
cheers!
(and sorry for my poor english...)

The best way to clear up user confusion is to post a link to a wiki at the top of the device forum. Closing threads doesn't answer any questions or make searches easier. It makes them more difficult as before you would have maybe a link to an old thread or some helpful search terms mixed into newbie questions, but instead you have a whole mess of unanswered closed questions and one answer thrown into that haystack.
Btw, "I, myself, personally..."? Are you kidding me? You may as well just say "I and me, and Muo.." if you want to be that ridiculously redundant.

Thx - That`s what I mean with this tread !!

sonus said:
The best way to clear up user confusion is to post a link to a wiki at the top of the device forum.
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It already is, the announcement at the top has multiple links including the wiki...
sonus said:
Closing threads doesn't answer any questions or make searches easier.
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Actually they do, when I see the "closed thread icon" I know to not go in there. Likewise, if there is a "moved thread icon" I know that it has nothing to do with the board I am in. Seems like that answers my questions of reading the thread or not.
Speaking of redundant and ridiculously...
sonus said:
Btw, "I, myself, personally..."? Are you kidding me? You may as well just say "I and me, and Muo.." if you want to be that ridiculously redundant.
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Not really, "I myself personally" is perfectly fine. Yes it is a bit redundant, and I apologize for making you read one extra word. Forget about sentence structure and stop trying to flame, there was no reason for that. Also if you are going to quote me, do it correctly without the commas. How you quoted me is worse than how I presented it in the first place.
.

ROM OP's / Chef's suggestion - please read for a friendlier XDA

Hello guys,
I know this thread is not directly about a ROM, but this is where this thread belongs because it directly involves the OPs of all these threads... so please read my suggestion.
There is an ever increasing amount of flaming going on here, mostly shooting down newbies for asking the same questions over and over again. I have a suggestion which would be very useful for avoiding the repetitive questions as well as the bad vibes and time wasted generated by so much flaming.
My suggestion is to have all OPs of a thread, make post #2 or post #3 available SPECIFICALLY as an up-to-date info aggregating post... so:
1/ in the FIRST post of the thread, mention is made and a link given to a post (perhaps post #2 or 3) which is dedicated to NEW FINDINGS and WORK AROUNDS.
2/ Someone volunteers to update this post, a beta tester or friend of the OP's or a fan of that specific ROM. the would start and edit/maintain this post #2 or #3 each time a new finding is made (delete helvetica on Darky 7.5, for example)
3/ instead of reading dozens of posts of wasted energy flaming people (it makes ZERO difference and ONLY serves to make the flamer look arrogant and unfriendly) we could all politely point newbies and confused old farters like myself to the first post and post #2 or #3 where they can get useful information without being expected to waste hours reading hundreds of useless comments or failing to find what you want by searching.
4/ Searching only happens when you ALREADY have a problem you need to solve. This idea of post #2 or #3 being used for important new info would tell people ALL they need to know, so if they read that, they would not need to search! IMO searching can take a long time, and XDA limits you to one search per 30 seconds, which DISCOURAGES searching!?
IMO it is not THAT much effort for one person to take on this job per thread...
What do you think?
tx
Mark.

I totally agree with you but you probably know that keeping a post up to date is hard as you can't constantly be on xda.
A solution could be allowing multiple users modifying one same post so updating won't rely on one person.
But I don't know if this is currently feasible.

If you check out Doc's thread, this is basically what he does already. Several posts chock full of information with the most revelant addons, fixes, changelogs, etc.

chambo622 said:
If you check out Doc's thread, this is basically what he does already. Several posts chock full of information with the most revelant addons, fixes, changelogs, etc.
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Hi
Yes, to some extent this is done on Doc's thread, though it contains (or has in the past when I was using doc's roms and reading those tips) some stuff which is outdated/irrelevant/incorrect an it is a bit disorganised.
I would love to see some kind of standardisation, so anyone trying out a new rom can read about the rom in the first post, and read the second post to see what the latest findings/fixes/issues are.
For sure, Doc's is a lot more informative than most...
Tx
Mark

Any specific information you'd like to see? If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them best I can.
I (at least try to) keep a detailed, up-to-date FAQ on my ROM's page. The problem is, not many people are asking questions.

I'm guilty of chastising folks sometimes too, especially the ones that come on here complaining that their phone is dead and how Samsung sucks because THEY didn't bother reading threads on how to properly flash, or not paying attention and flashing a captivate rom on a vibrant or a i9000m, whatever.
When I have a problem and need to ask a question, I've already spent time searching the net, searching xda, and reading related threads. I guess it is much easier just to hit "new post". How about a forum rule where it is mandatory to actually search, read the stickies, and the first few pages of a rom thread before posting? Or maybe a new thread should be created for every new ROM revision, with the thread title for older versions changed to include "OBSOLETE"?
Also, finding specific information in this forum is quite difficult sometimes because it is spread across hundreds of threads, sometimes buried a few hundred pages in. Another problem is that the i9000 is grouped in with the i9000m, and honestly, there should be a subforum specifically for the i9000m, where we can store all the QQ posts about SD failures and the like. Save the main forums for information we can actually use.
Just my 2 pesos... for what its worth.

This suggestion only covers part of the problem, the other problem is aspiring rom chefs was also shot down by fanboys of more established rom chefs. And as a result, not many would venture into rom cooking anymore.
While I have utmost respect for the chefs, what irks me most is fanboys calling others as thieves... Pathetic....
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

g00ndu said:
While I have utmost respect for the chefs, what irks me most is fanboys calling others as thieves... Pathetic....
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Hi there,
I agree its definitely not constructive, people taking out their anger on others is uncool regardless of who-how-why.
shadoslayer said:
How about a forum rule where it is mandatory to actually search, read the stickies, and the first few pages of a rom thread before posting?
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most of this is already a requirement/request when you join the forum, but flamers get all self righteous and hammer anyone they deem has not done their homework.
searches are very fallible. if you search for a generally used word you come up with way too much, and search too narrow and you are likely to miss something. I was looking for "battery fix" because that is what the thread title mentioned, but in the actual thread it was called "battery drain" or something, so I did not find the "battery fix" and had to ask.
all these little important things that sit somewhere in a 1000 page thread need to be collected and put somewhere immediately after the first post...
IMO that would make the XDA experience more pleasant for more people!
Mark.

I agree its desperately needed .
Whats happening is that other forums mention the various roms .
Owners then download the rom without even the most basic knowledge of roms Odin flashing etc expect them to be just like factory roms . Get into trouble refuse to read page 1 ask for help often on subjects beyond their very limited knowledge .
jje

fredphoesh said:
Hi there,
I agree its definitely not constructive, people taking out their anger on others is uncool regardless of who-how-why.
most of this is already a requirement/request when you join the forum, but flamers get all self righteous and hammer anyone they deem has not done their homework.
searches are very fallible. if you search for a generally used word you come up with way too much, and search too narrow and you are likely to miss something. I was looking for "battery fix" because that is what the thread title mentioned, but in the actual thread it was called "battery drain" or something, so I did not find the "battery fix" and had to ask.
all these little important things that sit somewhere in a 1000 page thread need to be collected and put somewhere immediately after the first post...
IMO that would make the XDA experience more pleasant for more people!
Mark.
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I agree for an extent. There are a few exceptions however:
1) There have been some cases where people have knowingly presented assumptions as fact... REPEATEDLY! Even after it is questioned. So flaming in that case might not be nice, but flaming is the only way to get them to go away. One such example was when someone was telling everyone "Google Mytrack is buggy, not the GPS". He refused to provide adequate evidence. RAM's another area where everyone is a professional, but none of the professionals have proof..
2) There are also a growing number of users who are blatantly IGNORING strong warnings about some ROM's.... And many of these are users with no development skills, or who haven't even tested official roms first. Then when something goes wrong, they demand help from the community, and later they bug the poor developers, who already knew there were serious bugs.
3) And then, there are the people who don't try to solve their own problem first. Granted, some searches CAN be missed. However, we are often seeing questions which often obviously can't be answered by the community (such as "when will Samsung release Gingerbread for SGS"). Well, clearly in that case, it would be best to speak to Samsung (duh). Or "my sd card is dead, will AT&T replace it". Clearly they should speak to AT&T
4) Then there are the guys too lazy to bother with basic fault fixing skills "my phone jammed up.. What do i do?"
I do agree in general it would be nice if things were friendlier. However, in some cases, I'm not sure if we should embrace people who were mentioned above....
What we really need is a thread designed as a faq consolidating answers

Suggestions for cleaning up and moderating the Forums

1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
2. More Mods! I think just one or two more mods can help the forums a lot and clean things up.
3. Warnings for people who post questions that have already been answered on the front page of a thread or faq followed by a temp ban if they continue.
I'm really tired of the cycle of
- Dumb question posted
- Followed by "read the damn thread or use the damn search button"
- Followed by "Hey you were a noob once and theres no harm in answering the question you ass along with lengthy answer on the question that will inevitable be asked 10 more times in the near future"
- Continue flame war that now has nothing to do with the thread anymore
You enable people by holding their hands. Don't be an enabler. If you managed to find out how to do all this crap on your own, they can too. At most you should point them to the right thread and let them read up on it on their own so they can further their own education.
4. Don't PM the Devs for requests. They have enough work on their hands and don't need to be flooded. Remember the rule of think before you speak? Try thinking before you PM.
Anyhoo, there was a bunch more, but I'm sure you guys/gals have other ideas.

riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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I don't understand why the "[How To] Return to Stock / Fix Bricked Epic" thread is not sticked.
If someone posts they bricked their phone and needs help you post the link to that thread and lock it.

I like the sentiment of this thread but fear it might be taken the wrong way. Whosdaman is really a wonderful guy and has been very helpful to me but it seems like he is very busy (and who can blame him for dealing with things outside of the interwebs?) so I support this I would also like to issue a blanket "Thank you for your hard work" to Whosdaman.

Seeing as this is a collection of developers I don't see why we don't customize the forum itself.
I don't see any reason we can't flag the development and Q/A threads for every phone. Then, if "is this a question" is set to yes, automatically put it in that phone's Q/A forum. On top of which we could add a "You are posting in the development forum, this is reserved for people developing for [insert phone]. Please check the box below to confirm that you are developing something you wish to share." anytime people posted in the development forum.
Obviously people can still screw it up, if nothing else on purpose, but we can expect people who have never been on the forums to know how the forums are laid out, usually by reading the rules, which never happens, to sort their own, or we can make it as self sorting as possible.

Sounds like whosedaman just needs some support. Perhaps another mod added to help out. We all have to keep in mind that these guys don't get paid for this and real life always trumps forums life. Just my thought on this.
Sent from my Epic while i should be working

I was wondering why there was so much confusion in this forum, as I really liked the forums I used for the month I had a Moment before the Epic dropped. Was there ever a forum on here for the moment??? I couldnt find one, so I checked sdx, which I remember lurking back then and found my answer. Why can't Xda have 'child forums', with descriptions of where and why to post things?? They have a 'market' forum section for ROMs, etc, which we here are using development exclusively. I understand why, but it seems its this way here because of limited tools for organizing, can this sites software not do that? It is completely logical and intuitive to post questions directly regarding development or roms in the development section if you are new... I would have expected a sub-forum for roms only, or at least some direction other than after the fact... usually unless its horribly out of order, whosdaman is pretty polite about it, and given the feelings regarding this device, things get silly in here. Anyways, yes, at least sticky all roms and things 'coolguy' or whatever dont warrant flaming, and then politely notify the new people that questions regarding development actually get booted over to general, where intuitively people would assume GENERAL questions like 'do you like gmail or the stock app better?'.
More mods? Better structure? Who has control over this? Are there any experienced volunteers that can help whosdaman out with his daunting task?
We need to expect more 'joined in Dec 2010' and later members as every idiot with a blog and engadget included seem to think this site and forum are the authority, even over Sprint and Samsung (if XDA says 2.2 is dropping, it must be true, head over there and complain about it). NOTHING against new members, just that there is little direction other than the 'rules' that most people think are just 'dont flame, no kiddie porn... etc...' Dont get all elitist because people couldnt figure out your simple, non-intuitive structure because its their first 5 mins here.
Love this forum, but its like people are baited into getting flamed by assuming this forum runs like most any other... I thought I saw the end of this when I refused to go to another BBC chat... guess not.
If you feel that you must deputize yourself, please, copy the link to the wiki, rules, etc and paste them in misplaced, repeat threads and leave it at that.

since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...

ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!

I'm willing to be a mod here I have experience and would know and how to handle things here...
Admins or mods pm me
sent from my Epic 4G

riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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Did you do a search before posting this? There's already a thread on it, learn how to use the search.
Ok, that was my attempt at humor

ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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I don't think this is fluff at all and whosdaman does deserve to be thanked for his, well, thankless work.
1488 is a race thing. They usually won't tell you what the ideology of it is in public. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
Although I don't agree with the sentiment of the belief structure, I support their right to peacefully observe their beliefs.

Yeah I know that meaning its generally a tattooed target, was just hoping it was just some retarded interweb speak. Sorry to hear. Almost forgot what it was though... not many Boneheads around here, not anymore.
BTW, I respect Lady Gaga's work, although I dont like it, therefore I see no reason to put it in my username.... its ok, you have a right to be a Nazi in this country...

Regrettably, I do read almost every thread in this forum, and forums I maintain...
<--------- Look here, I have 8 forums to maintain full time, but 6 are dead lol
Yeah I do have a life outside this for sure. Not only am I a senior in High School, I am on the Mock Trial team, the Robotics Team, a Sales Representative for Sprint, and a Writer for BriefMobile.com
So yeah I would say I'm busy, but I look over the entire forum as much as I can. Shep211 has been extremely busy in his personal life, that's why I started helping.
It is a thankless job, it's a volunteer job. All free, I don't get paid. The only thanks comes from the owner of the site when I say "if you fix this the site will be better."
Besides all that I can single handedly control this entire forum. I know it sometimes looks cluttered and in a mess, but then again...the Development section is spotless, which is truely the only thing that matters. The General section is meant to be a mess because it's where everyone posts their questions and complaints.
There are applications to become a moderator here on XDA, you have to meet certain requirements to be considered and then be approved. No one of this forum knows my experience as a moderator unless you used GameBattles.com for PS3.
If you want to help me out the most, please please please, use the "Report Post" feature. Every reported post goes straight to my inbox, and I see every single one. Normally RP's get extra attention as they obviously have bothered someone enough to have it reported. 90% of the RP's are either Ghost or Kenvan.
The search feature would do alot of people good, it's nice to tell people to do something, but Report the post/thread and I'll take care of it. You clutter up the forum and threads by posting in threads saying to post in General, just report it. That's all.
Sure, I wish everyone searched because there are at least 5 can't root threads. I would rather merge them all but it too much work to find them. Like I said, let the noobs make their mistake. The members report the post, don't tell them they were wrong. I'll move it, shoot them a PM, and then post in their thread telling them where they should have posted. Then hopefully they will learn.
Thanks again,
WDM

kenvan19 said:
Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
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Sorry, fluff may have been a wrong choice of words, I was implying that as this has been talked about before, and ignored by the powers that be, I saw it was going to end up an off topic post eventually, or at least until the elitist post Nazis (no offense bigjim) came in and said how we are cluttering their precious first page of posts, because as most have trouble with the AMAZING search function, a lot here have a lot of trouble with 'next page', you dont even have to pick which page, it takes you right to the next one!
Sorry, this is just getting really retarded around here, oh and BigJim,apologies, last comment on your beliefs, if off topic, but being an anarcho-punk, its hard not to at least ask if that is REALLY what you are talking about.

hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.

THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!

I certainly appreciate all the hard work Whosdaman has been doing with these forums, but unless he enjoys handling all this, wouldn't an extra mod or two be helpful?
My biggest thing is the FAQ post. Someone asks questions, you can point and say you should have read that first. Like I said before, the Wiki is great, but its a little cluttered and outdated as well as being hard to edit. Having one person willing to just moderate that one thread would be so helpful.
It bugs me when the whole community seems to be represented by the lazy people who just spam post. There are plenty of helpful, polite and very well informed that get lost among the clutter. In fact, they probably outnumber the newbies but don't feel the need to post nonsense. For every idiot that asks a dumb question, there are probably 10 that actually do research and figure it out for themselves.

kenvan19 said:
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
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Nope, I love you and ghost for reporting post. I always look forward to waking up and seeing 10 new PMs lol
ungovernable1977 said:
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
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I have no control over sub-forums. And right now it is only me working on the entire Epic forum. Like I said shep211 is gone atm.
svetius is in charge of the entire site, and I've talked to him about improvements that can be made. I wouldn't bother him too much or he'll just ignore ya. Most of the time the only things he is interested is fixing errors with the site itself. Right now I don't think we are in the area of reorganizing the entire site.

ok, so adding a subforum is not possible? Or is it a decision to make the structure uniform across the whole site? Just thinking, because this forum is like maximum security, different from the rest... or so it would seem...

I'm not so sure making more areas, and thus more chances to be wrong, is a good way to combat posting in the wrong area.
If you have a rom question, ask it in the rom thread. All that would happen if there were subforums for things in development, and discussion of things in development is we'd have 37 threads about how "I just discovered ___ doesn't work in [rom]" instead of 50 posts about it in the rom thread.
(Not to mention you'd then be blurring the line of when it is or isn't ok to post in the DEV forum, where as now, if the person bothers to read, there's a pretty clear cut "If you aren't about to post about the thing you just developed, GTFO" rule.)