Database Users

HTC Shift vs. HTC Athena

I am still trying to decide what i should buy. HTC Shift, HTC Omni and HTC Kaiser will be announced in Q3 just like HTC X7501. I am still waiting as my friend WU told me to do. I will wait till Summer July or September where more juicy stuff will come and therefore I decided not to buy HTC Athena.
One is a UMPC and the other is a Pocket PC. Compare both in all ways, from price, technical spec's and style.
I find the Shift to be much better than the Athena. What do you all think?

I have the Ameo now, and by the time the novelty of that has worn off, the Shift will be out.
And of course, I'll have to have one of them as well.....

nuclear said:
I am still trying to decide what i should buy. HTC Shift, HTC Omni and HTC Kaiser will be announced in Q3 just like HTC X7501. I am still waiting as my friend WU told me to do. I will wait till Summer July or September where more juicy stuff will come and therefore I decided not to buy HTC Athena.
One is a UMPC and the other is a Pocket PC. Compare both in all ways, from price, technical spec's and style.
I find the Shift to be much better than the Athena. What do you all think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will never buy the HTC Shift, and none of the UMPC. You see, i think PPC and UMPC are completely different product. I don't like UMPC, you can't turn it on in one sec, even you put it in stand by, it will still take a while. And also, none of the UMPC can last for whole day, i do not want to charge my device every so often.
I want my device to be 24hr connect to Internet to check mail, that you can't do with UMPC.
So i still prefer Athena, and don't forget this, i can use my U1000 to do remote control to my home pc.
If you compare Athena with other PPC, yes other PPC might have better spec when it comes out, but i find it quite hard to go to any smaller screen size then Athena. So again, it's all depends on personal needs and use, personally, i find Athena meets my needs

I agree with Wu. Why would need some slow device, I have it at home. When I am mobile I want something that would last for whole day, would be with me when I need it to check my emails, use it to go on MSN or Yahoo messenger, would have big screen and wont take ages to respond in some action (for instance Symbian phones).

schoofter said:
...wont take ages to respond in some action (for instance Symbian phones).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait till you see E90 in action it will blow Athena apart

I don't like XP/Vista in my phone. Slow startup and wake up from hibernation is a huge problem. Another con is since it is essentially a XP/Vista machine, it uses the ordinally desktop application which comes with all none-essentially adds-on and this blown up the size they needs. 40G storage will depleted in no time.
Battery staying power is another huge issue for UMPC.
Granted E90 is quite good but Symbian apps. is more on multi-media centric, so professional softwares are quite limit and hard to come by.

raven2000 said:
Wait till you see E90 in action it will blow Athena apart
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sure E90 would be a interesting device but after my N73 I doubt I would like any other Nokia. It is all sparkly and nice on paper and when you read it on Net it is super duper but when you start to use it then it gets on your nerves. Nokia maps is so nice on first look but would be with maps of other countries? I don't think they would ever make map for my country so no use of it and you can't use any other app for GPS because it is made just for Nokia.

schoofter said:
and wont take ages to respond in some action (for instance Symbian phones).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welllll, that's some really controversial statement
All the Symbian devices I've ever used performed WAYS faster, than their CE/WM competitors, though the specs were usually much lower.

E90 ????
raven2000 said:
Wait till you see E90 in action it will blow Athena apart
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know with you all, but for me what is nokia E90 caps so beat Athena. I don't have them both, but
1. Do E90 will be supported by many software developer?
2. Do it will doing many "assistan" thing?
For me it's not a "smart phone" at all... it's just a phone...
Once again it's personal opinion, i doubt if someone already use PPC/Palm will move to NOKIA thing...
But everyone have their opinion..

cornelius said:
I don't know with you all, but for me what is nokia E90 caps so beat Athena. I don't have them both, but
1. Do E90 will be supported by many software developer?
2. Do it will doing many "assistan" thing?
For me it's not a "smart phone" at all... it's just a phone...
Once again it's personal opinion, i doubt if someone already use PPC/Palm will move to NOKIA thing...
But everyone have their opinion..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i totally agree with you, i think E90 can only be call a phone, looks at the number of third party software that PPC has, yes it might be faster on E90. But slow is just usual for Windows device, for example, Windows is slower then Mac, but does that mean everyone will run and get Mac? No, because windows has much more application.

chtan said:
I don't like XP/Vista in my phone. Slow startup and wake up from hibernation is a huge problem. Another con is since it is essentially a XP/Vista machine, it uses the ordinally desktop application which comes with all none-essentially adds-on and this blown up the size they needs. 40G storage will depleted in no time.
Battery staying power is another huge issue for UMPC.
Granted E90 is quite good but Symbian apps. is more on multi-media centric, so professional softwares are quite limit and hard to come by.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always with 2 devices with me, 1 PDA and 1 Phone..
Before Dopod 900 / Nokia E60
Now Dopod u1000 / Nokia E60
Get the smallest and most powerful phone around for normal phone call.
Nokia E series (edit/view word/powerpt/excel.. wifi, Really good webbrowser + another Opera), PDA (Contact/Schedule/Todo can make it by 1 hand..)
WM5/6 for web/email/entertain and relax ur eyes

its very interesting..
im thinking of either the E90 or the HTC Advantage! the advantage will be out earlier and the prices of both will not differ by much. at the end of the day, the desicion of buying one rather than the other relies on what do you really want from a phone/pda.
maybe someone can help me:
my interest after all is to:
-have a device good with making calls and good for using to sync with your PC. both have the abilities but one rather probably has a better phone functionality than providing a pda/sync functions.
-as for multimedie, i have my digital camera which will never be replaced but to have a 3 mp is not too bad to take pix of some urgent things
-as a music player im not too picky as long as i get some sound
-storage wise, Advantage has plenty of those and it beats E90 easily.
-emails and so forth are important ot me. however, i would liek to upload email from my organization server which can be done through B.berry connect i suppose only. i believe both phones have the capability of doing such a thing, right? but i think the wm5/6 has a better email capability in geenral than symbians, right?
-i would get some softwares to add to my phone ans it seems windows based phones have far more titles (professional ones atleast).
-battery life: i think the E90 wins here..not sure.
-GPS capabilities: not sure which set has a better nad a more reliable one. it seems like nokia has introduced maps which can be downloaded on individual basis which is a nice idea depending on the country you are travelling to.
-multimedia again---watching movies..hmmm..it could be interesting if you are in your car as a passenger for a while..i guess it is easier to watch it on an advantage due to bigger screen..and the hard drive will assist in having bigger files on board. what do you think? but how many movies can you watch with the battery before it runs out of juice?
interesting comparisons and it is difficult for me to decide really as both devices cost lots of money and i dont want to make a desicion then regret. perhaps a user fo both devices can shed more light.
Cheers!

you said: but one rather probably has a better phone functionality than providing a pda/sync functions.
so E90 will be able to do phone thing than Athena becaus lack of earpiece on athena and vibrate notification...

just get yourself a bt headset(Jabra BT8010 is recommended) and everything will be fine, or may be excellent?

Should i buy Athena??

At the moment i have the universal, and uses it primarily for navigation and reading e books. have normal SEk810i for phoning.
i have been waiting for the omni, but date keeps pushing and no official responses has been made whether it comes or not.
And now i have found me a very nice offer that i can afford
Its the HTC Advantage X7500 and not the 7501.
How simple will the upgrade be to wm6 ?
and what other differences is there beside the fmradio (which doesn't matter to me)?
should i go for this or should i wait ?
One last note, the size of the athena doesnt scare me, i like big screen when reading and using navi.

I bought one 7500 couple of months before. The upgrade to WM6 was easy, but... I wouldn't buy it again - the microdrive makes me very big problems (it stops working in unpredictable times - not realiable) and also the GPS chipset inside is not SirfStarIII, be careful, if you need it for detailed measurements... :-(((

the athenais an amazing device look at the thread in the upgrading section called 'athena & WM6 getting rid...' and have you considered the shift it is bigger but a huge screen gps and phone 30GB vista and everything you could everneed (apart from a great battery life if using Vista) it is a bit more money and not released till 21st of december in uk not sure about ret of world also a higher screen resolution

spzero said:
the athenais an amazing device look at the thread in the upgrading section called 'athena & WM6 getting rid...' and have you considered the shift it is bigger but a huge screen gps and phone 30GB vista and everything you could everneed (apart from a great battery life if using Vista) it is a bit more money and not released till 21st of december in uk not sure about ret of world also a higher screen resolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why does everyone keep saying the shift does large screen GPS, None of the GPS solutions for Vista are as good as tomtom and the like for PPC and none of the pictures of the shift show it using the full wide screen when in PPC mode, this means that the 4:3 image in a 7" wide screen is barely over the 5" screen of the athena anyway.

Shift would simply be to big for my tastes. need something that can fit in my pocket easily due to my job. and the battery life discourages me also.
so today i went in with both legs and bought a brand spanking new athena.
i had won one on an auction, but after winning i got email from the seller saying sorry but it has broken and he has to cancel auction. ( still thinks he was pissed not getting the doe he was expecting )
so now i have gotten it today. have hardSpl'd it and flashed the pk3 rom. and i have that warm feeling inside again
i have to say that with mobipocket installed it is just perfect for reading, and when it comes to navigation, i have the full tomtom6 and so far no problems with the gps reception. and if the problem should arise i have my tomtom bluetooth antenna to be fired up in case..
so for now i will enjoy my new toy and hope it will last me a good while (wife will go mad if i want a new one for at least the next year ...)
what i have seen so far has been all good, hope it lasts

charon72 said:
Shift would simply be to big for my tastes. need something that can fit in my pocket easily due to my job. and the battery life discourages me also.
so today i went in with both legs and bought a brand spanking new athena.
i had won one on an auction, but after winning i got email from the seller saying sorry but it has broken and he has to cancel auction. ( still thinks he was pissed not getting the doe he was expecting )
so now i have gotten it today. have hardSpl'd it and flashed the pk3 rom. and i have that warm feeling inside again
i have to say that with mobipocket installed it is just perfect for reading, and when it comes to navigation, i have the full tomtom6 and so far no problems with the gps reception. and if the problem should arise i have my tomtom bluetooth antenna to be fired up in case..
so for now i will enjoy my new toy and hope it will last me a good while (wife will go mad if i want a new one for at least the next year ...)
what i have seen so far has been all good, hope it lasts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
welcome to the club

spzero said:
the athenais an amazing device look at the thread in the upgrading section called 'athena & WM6 getting rid...' and have you considered the shift it is bigger but a huge screen gps and phone 30GB vista and everything you could everneed (apart from a great battery life if using Vista) it is a bit more money and not released till 21st of december in uk not sure about ret of world also a higher screen resolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMHO, the Shift cannot be compared to a Windows Mobile device.
I carry a Windows notebook computer as well as a Windows Mobile device.
Now, that I have an Advantage, I find myself using the notebook computer far less often. The long boot-up time of the PC, and the easy synch of my data along with nearly-instant "on" of the Advantage, make my Advantage my first choice nearly all of my away-from-office time.

charon72 said:
Shift would simply be to big for my tastes. need something that can fit in my pocket easily due to my job. and the battery life discourages me also.
so today i went in with both legs and bought a brand spanking new athena.
i had won one on an auction, but after winning i got email from the seller saying sorry but it has broken and he has to cancel auction. ( still thinks he was pissed not getting the doe he was expecting )
so now i have gotten it today. have hardSpl'd it and flashed the pk3 rom. and i have that warm feeling inside again
i have to say that with mobipocket installed it is just perfect for reading, and when it comes to navigation, i have the full tomtom6 and so far no problems with the gps reception. and if the problem should arise i have my tomtom bluetooth antenna to be fired up in case..
so for now i will enjoy my new toy and hope it will last me a good while (wife will go mad if i want a new one for at least the next year ...)
what i have seen so far has been all good, hope it lasts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I congratulate you for making this wise decision. SHIFT is TWICE the area of Athena and three times the weight. It also is quite useless on the road because it has completely unacceptable battery life. Even if it has GPS, proper camera, MP3 player on the WM side, and voice call, it's not going to be worthwhile. Even if you don't mind lugging this phone along, you can't really use it worry free because anytime it's going to run out of power. Do you want Vista that badly? That's the real question. Even if you really really need portable VISTA, it is wiser to have ASUS eee PC, with an Athena.
In my mind there are two types of portability. The "body portability" and the "briefcase/backpack portabiliity". In first type of portability allows you to either put the device in your normal size pocket or a normal size belt pouch. The second category allows you to bring it along for holiday and travel, but you would not really need it to be carried on your body. Phone/GPS/MP3/Internet Browser/Camera/Radio should be converged into one device of "body portability". More serious work related and very infrequently used device such as VISTA could accept a "briefcase portabilty" as those applications typically requires much bigger screen and keyboard. These two types of device should not converge.
The real issue with SHIFT is not weather it can have phone, full WM6. It is the weight, size and battery life. Athena is the one to go for.

eaglesteve said:
I congratulate you for making this wise decision. SHIFT is TWICE the area of Athena and three times the weight. It also is quite useless on the road because it has completely unacceptable battery life. Even if it has GPS, proper camera, MP3 player on the WM side, and voice call, it's not going to be worthwhile. Even if you don't mind lugging this phone along, you can't really use it worry free because anytime it's going to run out of power. Do you want Vista that badly? That's the real question. Even if you really really need portable VISTA, it is wiser to have ASUS eee PC, with an Athena.
In my mind there are two types of portability. The "body portability" and the "briefcase/backpack portabiliity". In first type of portability allows you to either put the device in your normal size pocket or a normal size belt pouch. The second category allows you to bring it along for holiday and travel, but you would not really need it to be carried on your body. Phone/GPS/MP3/Internet Browser/Camera/Radio should be converged into one device of "body portability". More serious work related and very infrequently used device such as VISTA could accept a "briefcase portabilty" as those applications typically requires much bigger screen and keyboard. These two types of device should not converge.
The real issue with SHIFT is not weather it can have phone, full WM6. It is the weight, size and battery life. Athena is the one to go for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HERE HERE.
Very well put Eaglesteve.
I have, and will always have issues with the size of the Athena - as a phone I struggle to get along with it, and continually go back to my Hermes. The past few days with the Touch Dual ROM however I have warmed to it and think if you don't mind vociferous phone conversations or connecting bluetooth earphones it's actually a very good bit of kit.
I never use the keyboard as it adds bulk and isn't as nice to use as Fingertouch, I would LOVE a Linux hack but don't see one happening soon and I think web browsing is not as smooth and reliable as it should be, but you can't have everything I suppose.
If you enjoyed your Universal then I have no doubt you will be a happy member of the Athena club, and the Shift?!?! I wouldn't touch it with someone else's bargepole owing to 3 critical - and no doubt predictable - factors:
1 - It's too small to be a laptop replacement; too big to be a cellphone replacement.
2 - Owing to its expense and niche market, development will be VERY restricted.
3 - battery life is grimly short.
As previously stated, buy an EEE if you want a bit extra to go with your Athena - the cost of this AND the Athena is less than a Shift alone, with twice the battery juice.

leoni1980 said:
HERE HERE.
Very well put Eaglesteve.
I have, and will always have issues with the size of the Athena - as a phone I struggle to get along with it, and continually go back to my Hermes. The past few days with the Touch Dual ROM however I have warmed to it and think if you don't mind vociferous phone conversations or connecting bluetooth earphones it's actually a very good bit of kit.
I never use the keyboard as it adds bulk and isn't as nice to use as Fingertouch, I would LOVE a Linux hack but don't see one happening soon and I think web browsing is not as smooth and reliable as it should be, but you can't have everything I suppose.
If you enjoyed your Universal then I have no doubt you will be a happy member of the Athena club, and the Shift?!?! I wouldn't touch it with someone else's bargepole owing to 3 critical - and no doubt predictable - factors:
1 - It's too small to be a laptop replacement; too big to be a cellphone replacement.
2 - Owing to its expense and niche market, development will be VERY restricted.
3 - battery life is grimly short.
As previously stated, buy an EEE if you want a bit extra to go with your Athena - the cost of this AND the Athena is less than a Shift alone, with twice the battery juice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether or not you find Athena's size to be a problem depends on how to use it. For me, I completely dislike the hardware keyboard. It's no where near as fast and accurate as Tengo software keyboard, so I don't have the burden of carrying it and the leather case.
Next, if you try carrying it with the pockets of your shirt or trousers, you will find it too bulky and heavy. The right way to carry this is to use a proper belt pouch. I have a self made one. I carry my Athena 24/7, even at home. The only time it comes off my body is when I shower and sleep. In my belt pouch I am completely unaware of its presence. I will not be able to do the same with SHIFT.

hardware keyboard is interesting but daft, unresponsive and a burden when it comes to answering calls. the universal's design is better in a sense (and it doesn't wipe hard drives), although once the keyboard is removed the Athena feels a lot nicer.
i have never used Tengo. is it better than fingertouch?

leoni1980 said:
hardware keyboard is interesting but daft, unresponsive and a burden when it comes to answering calls. the universal's design is better in a sense (and it doesn't wipe hard drives), although once the keyboard is removed the Athena feels a lot nicer.
i have never used Tengo. is it better than fingertouch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
much much better
many more options

leoni1980 said:
hardware keyboard is interesting but daft, unresponsive and a burden when it comes to answering calls. the universal's design is better in a sense (and it doesn't wipe hard drives), although once the keyboard is removed the Athena feels a lot nicer.
i have never used Tengo. is it better than fingertouch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
much much much much better. bigger hitting area, more accuracy, takes up less real estate, more comprehensive and complete in functionality than Finger Touch . I've posted a comparision somewhere under the thread called "Finger touch, much better than tengo".

To add to the idea of using an Athena along with an Asus, you don't even have to link them with USB for the Asus to get network access. Get the (beta) wmWifiRouter and your Athena turns into a portable wifi hotspot. Then your Asus, and anyone else travelling with you with a laptop, gets internet on the go.

techntrek said:
To add to the idea of using an Athena along with an Asus, you don't even have to link them with USB for the Asus to get network access. Get the (beta) wmWifiRouter and your Athena turns into a portable wifi hotspot. Then your Asus, and anyone else travelling with you with a laptop, gets internet on the go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey, thats what i do, and it works a treat. for anyone who cant be bothered to search ive attached it. just go to start, settings, connections, wifi, add new. give the new connection whatever name you like and make sure you tick 'ad hoc'. then just run wmwifirouter. simple.

And because of this program there is less of a need to hack the ee to add internal bluetooth like some have lately. I cant think of any reason, actually.

Wow, i am really amazed to how this thread has boomed since last night
My main reason for never even considering the shift is size and battery life.
and every night when i go work i bring my laptop anyway.
The job i do is nightguard for a mentally handicapped man in his thirties. this involves long hours sitting in a chair watching him doing weird stuff and sleeping on the couch. so i need a device to keep me company in the chair
and it has to be something i can flick shut at seconds notice in case he gets a seizure (bad spelling i know) or freaks out. and for theese reasons SHift would be very impractical.
i like the look of shift and would like to have it just for playing around with it, but i also know i would tire of it really fast, so i dont see a reason to waste my money on a shiny new toy i wont use(have plenty of those)
The athena is now 2 days old and bringing it to work now for the third night and so far it has fulfilled all my expectations and even more.
combined with mobipocket it is absolutely fabulous to read on, and i am even considering leaving the laptop at home
So far i am very happy to have made the transition from the universal.
And on a side note...
Now my mom can discard her old Moto A1000 cause i am giving her the universal instead

leoni1980 said:
I would LOVE a Linux hack but don't see one happening soon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is a 'Linux hack' ?

eaglesteve said:
I carry my Athena 24/7, even at home. The only time it comes off my body is when I shower and sleep. In my belt pouch I am completely unaware of its presence. I will not be able to do the same with SHIFT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you wear it when you have sex?

spacecat said:
Do you wear it when you have sex?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought everyone has sex with his Athena. No?

Questions about WinMo Pro on the Shift

Hi I know a couple people here stated they have WinMo Pro 6 running on the "SnapVue" portion of the Shift. Excuse me if I explained that wrong. My question is what resolution does it run in? 640x480, 800x480, 320x240? And Can it access the phone portion(assuming from comments that it will in fact have voice)?
I'm really getting excited about the Shift since people are saying that in fact can run full blown Windows Mobile Pro. Why HTC didn't include/market that from the beginning is beyond me. It would TOTALLY seperate the Shift from any other UMPC on the market. Instead they aren't marketing it and it sits in a pile of other boring UMPC's. HTC's marketing practices as of late are really questionable. If it does have voice I'm crossing my fingers there is an earpiece built in. I doubt it but I'm hoping. Yes I know I'll look like an uber nerd using it that way but I can't stand BT headsets and barely talk on my devices that much anyway. Thanks.

Hello juiceppc,
I'm not sure at 100% about what I will say.. but I think that the resoluion in SnapVue is 640*480 (there are 2 black areas at each side of SnapVue).
For the phone portion ... humm .. it's difficult to know, but we will try the best to have it ! It's sure that we will be able to read SMS... but nothing is sure about receiving and giving calls.. we have to wait for the final version of the Shift to test.
Just stay tune in this forum... and you will have your answer... As Soon As Possible !

koala996 said:
Hello juiceppc,
I'm not sure at 100% about what I will say.. but I think that the resoluion in SnapVue is 640*480 (there are 2 black areas at each side of SnapVue).
For the phone portion ... humm .. it's difficult to know, but we will try the best to have it ! It's sure that we will be able to read SMS... but nothing is sure about receiving and giving calls.. we have to wait for the final version of the Shift to test.
Just stay tune in this forum... and you will have your answer... As Soon As Possible !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!...

hi
i realy like the Shift, but if can run wm6 full ... I'm excited!
there is a problem: the 2 operating system must use the some devices in the same time (bt, wifi, etc).
for browse on the net, or for chat, the wm6 is enough, and is not necessary to run vista.
and if htc release the win xp drivers, the battery life can be bigger.
but i cant find anywhere a documented review about shift....(everybody is happpy, the shift is the best...) no phone, no gps, the image cant rotate, no wm6, no xp drivers...
i think the comunity can resolve this problem but the feedback is verry low.

the device is not released .. so stop to anticipate everything ... we will try to make the Shift the best device EVER... but we need to get one to test everything on it !
I don't care about XP (it's a completely horrible O.S. .. and Vista is 10000 times better) but for the rest, we ALL want GPS, PHONE and full WM6 .. even without that, the SHIFT is an innovative device.. and is much better than every other device... so WAIT and you'll see.

why buy a HTC Shift?
I have a Dopod U1000, its the best device ever. I have a Sony TZ notebook as well. I was thinking why bother to buy the HTC Shift?
- Battery life 2 hours Vs Sony 11 hours
- it runs on a paralysed WM6 that is probably not going to be that useful Vs Dopod U1000
- the screen resolution is poor Vs Sony beautiful crystal clear screen
- HTC Shift probably runs on hard disk Vs Sony runs on flash memory,
- This is the first PC by HTC Vs Sony many years of R&D experience
I have purchased the Samsung Q1 as well as the small Sony UMPC before. Both proof to be quite useless. When I bring them out. I have to wait a few minutes for it to boot up. After using for just awhile the battery goes flat. You will be left wondering why do u ever bother to bring such a heavy device around. Trust me folks battery life is important. If you buy the HTC Shift after a month the battery life drops to probably 1 hour. In addition, the screen size is way too small to run Windows. I am very sure there will be many second hand models in ebay after 2 weeks of launching
Pls think twice..

greatestkelvin said:
I have a Dopod U1000, its the best device ever. I have a Sony TZ notebook as well. I was thinking why bother to buy the HTC Shift?
- Battery life 2 hours Vs Sony 11 hours
- it runs on a paralysed WM6 that is probably not going to be that useful Vs Dopod U1000
- the screen resolution is poor Vs Sony beautiful crystal clear screen
- HTC Shift probably runs on hard disk Vs Sony runs on flash memory,
- This is the first PC by HTC Vs Sony many years of R&D experience
I have purchased the Samsung Q1 as well as the small Sony UMPC before. Both proof to be quite useless. When I bring them out. I have to wait a few minutes for it to boot up. After using for just awhile the battery goes flat. You will be left wondering why do u ever bother to bring such a heavy device around. Trust me folks battery life is important. If you buy the HTC Shift after a month the battery life drops to probably 1 hour. In addition, the screen size is way too small to run Windows. I am very sure there will be many second hand models in ebay after 2 weeks of launching
Pls think twice..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Screen Size way too small for Vista? How about OQO and other 5 inch UMPC? It's even smaller..

greatestkelvin said:
I have a Dopod U1000, its the best device ever. I have a Sony TZ notebook as well. I was thinking why bother to buy the HTC Shift?
- Battery life 2 hours Vs Sony 11 hours
- it runs on a paralysed WM6 that is probably not going to be that useful Vs Dopod U1000
- the screen resolution is poor Vs Sony beautiful crystal clear screen
- HTC Shift probably runs on hard disk Vs Sony runs on flash memory,
- This is the first PC by HTC Vs Sony many years of R&D experience
I have purchased the Samsung Q1 as well as the small Sony UMPC before. Both proof to be quite useless. When I bring them out. I have to wait a few minutes for it to boot up. After using for just awhile the battery goes flat. You will be left wondering why do u ever bother to bring such a heavy device around. Trust me folks battery life is important. If you buy the HTC Shift after a month the battery life drops to probably 1 hour. In addition, the screen size is way too small to run Windows. I am very sure there will be many second hand models in ebay after 2 weeks of launching
Pls think twice..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally disagree with your comment :
- Battery life 2 hours Vs Sony 11 hours
First .. I bet that the shift can be used about 5 days without using Windows Vista (only SnapVue or WM6). And the Sony is twice the price of the Shift ... ergh!!!!
- it runs on a paralysed WM6 that is probably not going to be that useful Vs Dopod U1000
You seem to be paralysed when talking about it ... the WM6 will be sufficiently well working (even without removing SnapVue) because of ability to install Cab .. and I believe that Full WM6 will be easy to have. The Dopod doesn't have Windows Vista ... and having WM5 or even WM6 on the Dopod is exactly the same of having SnapVue on the Shift.
- the screen resolution is poor Vs Sony beautiful crystal clear screen
I can put the Shift in my pocket ...but not the Sony. 7" is the perfect resolution for me (I have tried 2 Shifts and I really like the screen size and the Shift keyboard). At home I plug a VGA cable .. and here we go !
- HTC Shift probably runs on hard disk Vs Sony runs on flash memory,
The sony runs on flash memory? MMh maybe... but it's twice the price of the shift... and unable to put it in the pocket... bad !
- This is the first PC by HTC Vs Sony many years of R&D experience
I have tried 2 Shifts.. and it was working perfectly, as fast as I want ..... so I don't care about the years of R&D experience of Sony.
Here's my thoughts... I'm not trying to put you down, or to say that you are wrong .. but features depends on the way you want to use it , and you use devices. We are talking about 3 completely different devices.... and I don't believe that any other "released" device can change my opinion that the Shift is the only good device on the market right now (because of 2 CPU and 2 OS).

How about we keep our heads about us people and stay objective.
Comparing a Sony TZ to the shift is a useless comparison. One is a notebook, the other an umpc. Each serves a different purpose for different people and different tasks.
Koala, if you can put the shift in your pocket than I would hate to see your sense of fashion. Im sorry I dont doubt you could shove the shift into your pocket but show some decorum....theres better umpcs to shove down there that would look less ridiculous.
Remember people, different tasks, different people = different devices. For me ill probably have to seriously look at the Shift if WM can be made practical, if the GPS can be enabled (remember the P3600 ppl).
Having owned an X7500 I found it to be a great device, very handy however there are some tasks WinMo just can do as well as full Windows. The excellent, connectivity, battery life, and quick responsiveness of WinMo will be ideal for me with the option to flick it to Vista at a whim for those times when im away from my desk and need to do work on the move. If it has GPS and phone functions can be enabled than thats just a bonus

Osir1s said:
How about we keep our heads about us people and stay objective.
Comparing a Sony TZ to the shift is a useless comparison. One is a notebook, the other an umpc. Each serves a different purpose for different people and different tasks.
Koala, if you can put the shift in your pocket than I would hate to see your sense of fashion. Im sorry I dont doubt you could shove the shift into your pocket but show some decorum....theres better umpcs to shove down there that would look less ridiculous.
Remember people, different tasks, different people = different devices. For me ill probably have to seriously look at the Shift if WM can be made practical, if the GPS can be enabled (remember the P3600 ppl).
Having owned an X7500 I found it to be a great device, very handy however there are some tasks WinMo just can do as well as full Windows. The excellent, connectivity, battery life, and quick responsiveness of WinMo will be ideal for me with the option to flick it to Vista at a whim for those times when im away from my desk and need to do work on the move. If it has GPS and phone functions can be enabled than thats just a bonus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same for me ... it's not ridiculous to put it in my pocket because it looks like if my pocket was empty ... nobody can see that I have something in my pocket... and when I have a bag with me, it will be in my bag .. but I can visit friends without having a bag and without having to look like "coming to work".

htc shift
I just bought the htc shift a few days ago. There are several problems.
1. I unlocked the full WM6, the problem is that file explorer cannot read the sd card. As such I have to install all the applications on the internal memory. This is not very good as it prompts me that the internal memory is very low.
2. Another problem is the contrast in snapvue. After reseting snapvue, the standard high contrast comes out again. U cannnot lower he backlight.
3. the sync between wm6 and the pc works sometimes. I use USB tool. Most often it does not work and is very slow.
Overall the built quality is good but it still cannot replace my dopod u1000

greatestkelvin said:
I just bought the htc shift a few days ago. There are several problems.
1. I unlocked the full WM6, the problem is that file explorer cannot read the sd card. As such I have to install all the applications on the internal memory. This is not very good as it prompts me that the internal memory is very low.
2. Another problem is the contrast in snapvue. After reseting snapvue, the standard high contrast comes out again. U cannnot lower he backlight.
3. the sync between wm6 and the pc works sometimes. I use USB tool. Most often it does not work and is very slow.
Overall the built quality is good but it still cannot replace my dopod u1000
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. still not available, but is coming soon
3. do you have SP1 on VIsta? This is causing troubles.

OK -- what can I really use if for?

Please don't get me wrong -- I think the Shift represents a great advancement in UMPC technology. Having WM6 and WinVista (or WinXP) combined on 1 device is, IMHO, a super idea. And the form factor and build quality are very good. I'm impressed and, as Jenn at Pocketables pointed out, it's fun to use -- kind of grabs you. But unlike Jenn, I'm not ready to say I'll not part with it. I've liberated WM6 so I have as full a use of the WM6 side as I believe is so far available. I've got Vista humming, at least as much as the 1G RAM can live with. But if this is as far as I can go I don't see much more than another "gadget" to add to my collection. The 1G RAM limit is a show stopper -- slows the machine down and really limits what I can do in Vista. The 64MB limit in WM6, combined with inability to access the SD card slot (or even the USB slot) means my WM6 is crippled -- hardly any of what I'm accustomed to using can be routinely done. Throw in the 2 hr battery limitation in Vista -- it just isn't a very good "solution" for a road warrior.
I realize there are folks hard at work to improve on these and I commend them (and have contributed to the Shift Project) -- I really hope they succeed. But I have to say that what I'm looking at from HTC is, at best, a "beta" version -- they have so limited what's inside the box that it's hardly useful for anything. Considering the growing competition I doubt HTC will hold much share of this market.

agree
Huib

Interesting comments and many agree with. Given the amount of information available on the net about this device, and its limitations including SnapVue, battery etc etc, what motivated you to buy it? It seems to be a mismatch to me re. your requirements. I bought it even knowing all these things as it matched my needs.
A road warrior it is not. A media powerhouse it is not. A tiny portable always on email and document viewer/editor, plus web browser it is. I get 2.5hrs on Vista browsing the web - same as almost every other laptop I've ever owned, so I'm not surprised really...altho again, Vista leaves much to be desired in this respect - a spinning hard drive kills batteries.
I agree with you regarding the things they didn't get right - SnapVue is just silly right out of the box and Vista is a mistake. HTC really fvcked up there.
This device kind of reminds me of the Sony C1V picturebook I had (with that horrible Crusoe processor - if you think this chip is slow, that thing was lifeless)...awesome for what I wanted but that's where it stops...it doesn't extend beyond that and I'm comfy with that.
To answer the question, I use my Shift when I travel. I used to take my HX4700 but bluetooth 3G connection was slow, Opera was slow for browsing and the screen too small really. I had a b/tooth key board which was OK but another piece of kit that needed batteries and sync'ing etc etc. Now I carry a v. small bag with me when away and it holds the Shift, power packs, Archos 504, headphones and a few other bits and bobs...all I need. On planes I can type my reports in Mobile Word, sync it to Vista and tart them up and send. In hotels I can surf the web at my own pace on HSDPA with it plugged in to AC (on high performance setting). I can adjust my webpage using filezilla etc etc....basically all the things I couldn't do on the HX4700 (which I now use as a support device for the Archos, and as a GPS)....the Shift really filled my requirements. I almost bought the Fujitsu U1010 but the ones here didn't have 3G built in and the keyboard was harder to use that the Shift.
Next version, should HTC shift (no pun intended) enough of these first ones, should ideally have:
1. Higher res screen
2. Bigger hard disk
3. SnapVue fully functional with SD card, WiFi access etc etc
4. XP as an option
5. A battery compartment that allows for an extended one to be added
Aside from that, I still like my Shift and use it almost everyday...

FOOFTR said:
Interesting comments and many agree with. Given the amount of information available on the net about this device, and its limitations including SnapVue, battery etc etc, what motivated you to buy it? It seems to be a mismatch to me re. your requirements. I bought it even knowing all these things as it matched my needs.
A road warrior it is not. A media powerhouse it is not. A tiny portable always on email and document viewer/editor, plus web browser it is. I get 2.5hrs on Vista browsing the web - same as almost every other laptop I've ever owned, so I'm not surprised really...altho again, Vista leaves much to be desired in this respect - a spinning hard drive kills batteries.
I agree with you regarding the things they didn't get right - SnapVue is just silly right out of the box and Vista is a mistake. HTC really fvcked up there.
This device kind of reminds me of the Sony C1V picturebook I had (with that horrible Crusoe processor - if you think this chip is slow, that thing was lifeless)...awesome for what I wanted but that's where it stops...it doesn't extend beyond that and I'm comfy with that.
To answer the question, I use my Shift when I travel. I used to take my HX4700 but bluetooth 3G connection was slow, Opera was slow for browsing and the screen too small really. I had a b/tooth key board which was OK but another piece of kit that needed batteries and sync'ing etc etc. Now I carry a v. small bag with me when away and it holds the Shift, power packs, Archos 504, headphones and a few other bits and bobs...all I need. On planes I can type my reports in Mobile Word, sync it to Vista and tart them up and send. In hotels I can surf the web at my own pace on HSDPA with it plugged in to AC (on high performance setting). I can adjust my webpage using filezilla etc etc....basically all the things I couldn't do on the HX4700 (which I now use as a support device for the Archos, and as a GPS)....the Shift really filled my requirements. I almost bought the Fujitsu U1010 but the ones here didn't have 3G built in and the keyboard was harder to use that the Shift.
Next version, should HTC shift (no pun intended) enough of these first ones, should ideally have:
1. Higher res screen
2. Bigger hard disk
3. SnapVue fully functional with SD card, WiFi access etc etc
4. XP as an option
5. A battery compartment that allows for an extended one to be added
Aside from that, I still like my Shift and use it almost everyday...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree and htc should also use SSD's to save more power and they should make sure they announce the correct specs.

FOOFTR said:
Interesting comments and many agree with. Given the amount of information available on the net about this device, and its limitations including SnapVue, battery etc etc, what motivated you to buy it? It seems to be a mismatch to me re. your requirements. I bought it even knowing all these things as it matched my needs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Point well taken -- I should have added that my comments were stated with the proverbial tongue in cheek. I was well aware of the Shift's limitations and purchased one out of curiosity -- I've followed it since its initial announcement and had cancelled my preorder after seeing the limitations being documented. But I saw this one on ebay for several hundred $ less than retail and decided to look at it for myself.
I agree with the suggestions made and really hope HTC listens (if they decide to stay in the UMPC market -- that's not a "for sure" thing). I've tried five different UMPC's as well as the Sony TZ "subnotebook" and have yet to find what I think I'm after -- a truly business capable device small enough for my purposes (and that's really subjective, I know) yet powerful enough to replace my usual notebook (13.3" XPS). I knew the Shift wouldn't do this -- its very short battery life is a show stopper although I could carry an external battery pack. But the limited RAM and the very limited usefulness of SnapVu make it relatively useless to me so I'll end up ebaying it.
I'd hoped to generate more discussion in the hope that collective experience and wisdom would prove useful to the UMPC market.

There are some very interesting viewpoints here.
I purchased mine after following the news stories for months. I purchased it the moment it was available in the UK and paid nearly £900.
I knew the limitations, but had to buy one of these! It gets used a lot in our house. And I am always doing things to it. It's leberated and its dual boot with XP.
I use it to tinker with, watch movies and surfing. The wife loves it too and surfs on the sofa while watching the tele, she prefers it to any of the laptop we have because of the size. My daughter took it away for the weekend recently too so she could surf. Its such a versitile device. And most of all, PEOPLE STARE AT IT ON THE TRAIN/PLANE WHEN I'M ON BUSINESS!!! I don't really use the liberated Snapvue, I don't need to when its dual boot.
If I had a wish list, I would love to see an SSD in it and another 1GB RAM. The processor is fine for what I use it for, so I have no grumbles there.
My eldest daughter wants it for school, so it'll be used for that full time in September when she is a year 10.
I do understand that to some people its limited in its application, but for us as a family, its one of the better toys we've purchased (and we buy a lot of techy toys/gadgets!) The joys of working in IT means I am addicted to buying new toys!
I'm actually sat here in the garden using HSDPA typing this. Apart from a couple of phones, I don't have another device with this ability. why be inside when its such a sunny evening!

benktlottie said:
TIt's liberated and its dual boot with XP...... I don't really use the liberated Snapvue, I don't need to when its dual boot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean by "dual boot"? I have mine liberated but I'm not sure it dual boots?
Thanks!

brucewilsonpa said:
What do you mean by "dual boot"? I have mine liberated but I'm not sure it dual boots?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I have dual boot, as in when powered up it asks whether you want to boot Vista or XP. Next stop, triple boot with Linux installed too, although that will be cutting it a bit fine for hard drive space.

Bruce, I think your comments, and the general community's will help deliver better products...I think they're constructive for sure.
I don't like it when people say product X sucks when indeed product X is not designed to do the very things they are comparing it against. I have read so many appalling reviews of the Shift - I'm ceratin 50% of the people won't have even used one...a classic is when someone said "the poky keyboard makes you wish for full size keyboard real estate..." - um, one cannot have a 7" screen device with an 18" keyboard...get real and take the device in the context it is meant for - maybe that's it, they cannot get their head around indeed what context this device resides/exists in. Maybe because they do not have a need for such a device it must be a failure? I mean, I don't need a concrete mixer so reviewing one would be pointless, and I'd end up saying things like "it doesn't sound as nice as my NAD stereo" - maybe they're the same.
Ah Pantaloonie, was loading XP as easy as booting from an XP disc/ISO (tablet I assume)? Thanks...

FOOFTR said:
Ah Pantaloonie, was loading XP as easy as booting from an XP disc/ISO (tablet I assume)? Thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, almost that easy. Use Vista to partition off a few Gigs for XP, install XP, then use a Vista disc to repair the mbr so you can get back into Vista.
Then use VistaBootPro to create a boot menu.
I didn't use tablet edition at the time, and can't be bothered to go back and do it again; maybe next time I'm really bored I will.

FOOFTR said:
Maybe because they do not have a need for such a device it must be a failure? I mean, I don't need a concrete mixer so reviewing one would be pointless, and I'd end up saying things like "it doesn't sound as nice as my NAD stereo" - maybe they're the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi FOOFTR,
yes, I like your comparison. Made me laugh. And I think what you say is right in all sorts of contexts. You make up something that wasn't said or done in the first place and then you go on bashing it.
Thanks!
S.

Pantaloonie said:
Yup, almost that easy. Use Vista to partition off a few Gigs for XP, install XP, then use a Vista disc to repair the mbr so you can get back into Vista.
Then use VistaBootPro to create a boot menu.
I didn't use tablet edition at the time, and can't be bothered to go back and do it again; maybe next time I'm really bored I will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats what I did.
I Used BartPE to make a bootable usb stick with xp pro on it. stole 6gb from Vista and installed xp pro. Viola, dual boot Shift!

Athena - End of Life?

I just looked at the HTC website, discovered the new widescreen touch phones, and was taken aback, that the Athena is no longer listed with the HTC products.
So is this the end of the Athena?
R, Michael

Links? When I go to htc.com I don't see the Athena under current "Products", but that's been true for a while. I do see it listed under "Support". I also don't see any new widescreen phones anywhere...

techntrek said:
Links? When I go to htc.com I don't see the Athena under current "Products", but that's been true for a while. I do see it listed under "Support". I also don't see any new widescreen phones anywhere...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not a regular with the HTC website, so forgive me, if didn't find out earlier, that HTC dropped the Athena line altogether. And I haven't seen it mentioned on this forum as well.
"New" widescreen phones means (for the same reason) "new to ME", but probably "water under the bridge" for the better informed.

No, you misread, I wasn't jumping on you. I'm curious what widescreen phones you are talking about and wanted a link to see. The thread that appeared here about the Athena getting dropped from HTC's product line didn't get much activity so it dropped off the front page quickly, so you could have easily missed it.

i looked on the htc Europe page and there they still have the athena

The HTC web site (worldwide) lists two widescreen devices:
Touch HD
MAX 4G
but no X7500/X7501/X7510.
European and german web sites list the Touch HD as the only widescreen device, but still list the X7510.
North-american site lists no widescreen device at all and no more Advantages.
R, Michael

The thing that surprises me is that this niche seems to be emptying. There are the smaller devices with touch interface (iPhone and knock-offs) that are booming, and then the netbooks are booming. But nothing in between. I'm not sure what my next move will be. I've had my x7500 for over 18 months, which is an eternity. But I can't convince myself that there is anything new that I would be happier with. What I really want is a faster, sleeker, lighter x7500 with a 60GB solid state drive. Wouldn't other people want that??

I've had mine 15 months and plan on using it for several more years. Definitely nothing on the market right now that is an obvious replacement for the Athena and I don't think there will be for a while.
I'd love an Athena with a SSD, and a 16:9 aspect ratio screen instead of the 4:3 we have now. It would make it a bit longer but a bit narrower (top to bottom), more like a traditional "candybar" phone. Would give more total screen space but would make it easier to hold like a phone. Obviously that would also require adding a private earpiece. Throw in a vibrate ringer and I'd be there.

wgary said:
The thing that surprises me is that this niche seems to be emptying. There are the smaller devices with touch interface (iPhone and knock-offs) that are booming, and then the netbooks are booming. But nothing in between. I'm not sure what my next move will be. I've had my x7500 for over 18 months, which is an eternity. But I can't convince myself that there is anything new that I would be happier with. What I really want is a faster, sleeker, lighter x7500 with a 60GB solid state drive. Wouldn't other people want that??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude you hit it right on the nail. Or atleast something with an upgradeable memory along with Micro SDHC slot built in, and onboard USB host (no attachments).

hmm
the athena is dieing no one cooks roms for it last was ap5 i think , i love my x7501 ,but the kaiser has more cooks i havent flashed sence ap4 release and i know some one could cook up something better,can a kaiser rom run on a x7501?

Dude where u been?
hey flexedrubi
Mitchy Prima has released many ROMS far above the calibre of the AP ROMS.
I am sure the last one was less than a month ago....
I dont know how u missed it....It is WIZ BANG PA_TANG! (very good)
So go flash it.......
We are indeed a small crowd with our devices and I dont know if anything will come along, I think we are a single generation which were before our time.
In the future we will have XP....sorry VISTA (hssss) or even windows 7 machines - (which are pushing touch screen tech further than Win mobile) the same size and with the same capacity/functionality as our Advantages.
Asus EE pc's come with Sim Card slots now and all you need to use them as phones.
The HTC advantage with the stock Mobile 5 ROM was a pretty awfull device to use as a primary phone we were pioneers with patience lol
Mitchys ROMS have elevated it to heights but its still not really ready to compete with other OS's in terms of simple phone, music, and camera usage
I have been using a combo of N95 8GB (for music, camera and calls) and an x7500 for data for a while now. There is nothing I can see that can beat this combo....
The X7500 is the ONLY PPC in my opinion that I can use for work
Wifi to connect to office (or VPN)
USB host for keyboard and mouse
VGA out for monitor
RDP for TS to access everything I need
I have never used or seen another PPC that could take its place!
I just bought a Sumsung Omnia, I flashed up to newest decent custom firmware (far better than Tmobile stock ROM which was quite bad!) and I loaded up loads of tunes and movies etc, put all my usefull apps on it and expected it to take over from my old combo...
Impossible!
It just cant do it!
I think that Windows 7 (not mobile) or what ever its being called is being designed to plug in to all hardware....

yarod - so what about the Omnia didn't make it good enough to take over from your current combo?

Athena lives?
Just got this from an rss. Looks like Athena lives! Look at this article http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=2357 and you'll see the "Athena 2" apparently code named "Thoth."
Woo hoo!

Wow!
This is indeed good news!

mfschneider said:
This is indeed good news!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope they come out with a T mobile USA 3G version. If not i'm running to AT&T end of my contract before I purchase this handy looking Thoth.

Very good to see that they are continuing development with the Athena line, but it doesn't look much different than the 7510. Still lacks the buttons they took away with the 7510, so right there its a no-go for me.

This is good news
CHECK OUT THIS LINK ALSO
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/01/12/htcs-full-2009-line-up-leaked

techntrek said:
yarod - so what about the Omnia didn't make it good enough to take over from your current combo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Techntrek
- The omnia was great......BUT comparing to my N95 8GB.........and the Ameo as combo.....
Main things that annoyed me........
unable to use headphones and charge at same time with out of box solution
Also no 3.5 jack without the adapter
FM radio didnt list radio station name ....RDS or something?
Battery (even with newest ROM) doesnt last as long as Nokia (screen is much bigger so maybe that is whats causing it....)
GPS doesnt work as well I only got a FIX Once with my Omnia.......Ameo seems to fix much more reliably as does N95.
Screen is too small to use Remote desktop properly after using ameo - interestingly in this case the only remote app I have for Nokia is logmein which is rubbish
No USB host and I dont want to waste money on Bluetooth combo (top dollar) as I just got a MX3200 set.
The phone application is not as reliable at all.....same with all windows mobile devices, the dialler and phone app on the N95 is integrated into the OS in a much more pleasent fashion - no hangs no issues even if I am running Multiple Applications (web, MMS, video, FM radio etc) the phone app kicks in and out faster and more efficiently with never a crash....
There was no in line remote solution (next/last track, volume, change radio station....
But the omnia could record FM radio!! That was kick ass!

Interesting. Well, here's to many more useful years with our Athenas!

techntrek said:
Very good to see that they are continuing development with the Athena line, but it doesn't look much different than the 7510. Still lacks the buttons they took away with the 7510, so right there its a no-go for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think they are going to bring back the buttons anymore because they are pushing for the touch capacitive screens with integrated touch 3d. We might even loose whatever button is present on the X7510 as it is.