Database Users

Why Google needs “Direct Push” for Google Apps

Direct Push with Google Apps?!?!?!
Hi everyone. I think I might have asked this question before but maybe something has developed in the last few months.
I am running my own IT consulting business and as I get more and more busy my calendar is becoming an ever more important tool. My dear wife went out and got me a good old-fashioned spiral bound day-timer but I have a sophisticated day-timer right here in my pocket in the form of my HTC Touch. As an IT consultant I think I should be using it rather then pulling out the pen and paper. Right now I am using the calendars in my Touch, Outlook, Google Apps and the calendar in the Exchange account I have with one of my customers. Too many calendars and all because I really want to use my Google Apps calendar and have it sync with my Touch.
I really want Google to develop “Direct Push” technology so that I can get my email, calendar and contacts all from my Google Apps account just like it was an Exchange Server. I am even considering switching my email back to an Exchange Server just so I can sync with my Touch. This way my wife could login and add stuff to my calendar and it will appear on my Touch. Right now I have my Email coming in from Google Apps via IMAP, my Calendar synching with Outlook (installed locally on my laptop without Exchange) and my Contacts syncing with my customer’s Exchange server. This is a pain and I want everything in one place that can be maintained/synced in real-time.
I will say this right now and keep in mind that as an IT consultant I like Microsoft’s products and install things like Windows 2003, SQL Server and Exchange on an almost daily basis. If Google develops “Direct Push” for Google Apps it will be an Exchange killer. The only, and I mean only reason I am thinking about switching my domain back to Exchange (I moved from Exchange to Google Apps about 1 year ago) is for the ability to sync everything (not just email) with my Touch.
On the other hand if Microsoft comes out with a version of Outlook/Exchange that dispenses with the whole “Inbox/Sent items/Delete” model and goes for the Google-style “conversation & archive” model along with the search capabilities I might fall back in love with Exchange.
The Fish

Oh and just in case anyone from Microsoft is listening, “threaded inbox” isn’t what I mean by “conversation style”. Come on Microsoft. Just admit that Google has actual built a better mousetrap and managed to improve on the age-old email model of “folders” and “sent items”. Go ahead and copy them… copy, copy copy! Oops sorry, I mean “embrace and extend, embrace and extend”

Something like that would be great!

matthew232 said:
Something like that would be great!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And not to mention totally do-able. There is already an non-Exchange mail server out there called “KerioMail Server” that implements Microsoft’s Direct Push protocol. Check out this link http://www.kerio.com/kms_activesync.html
Microsoft’s Direct Push is entirely HTTP based. It shouldn’t be that difficult for Google to do.
The Fish.

I guess you have to wait for Google Android.

thefish123 said:
On the other hand if Microsoft comes out with a version of Outlook/Exchange that dispenses with the whole “Inbox/Sent items/Delete” model and goes for the Google-style “conversation & archive” model along with the search capabilities I might fall back in love with Exchange.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The moment they do that (without giving an option) is when I would have to quit using Exchange. I **hate** Gmail's threading and forward those mails to another account that isn't threaded (and the fact that they don't let you turn it off).

I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but have you checked out any of the 3rd party sync options? GMobileSync is a free little program that allows bidirectional syncing for your calendar (not push though). GooSync offers a free service level that also gives you calendar syncing. If you upgrade to their payed version (I think it is something like $30-40 for a whole year) you get not only calendar sync, but contacts, tasks etc. Might be worth a look.

jeffreycentex said:
The moment they do that (without giving an option) is when I would have to quit using Exchange. I **hate** Gmail's threading and forward those mails to another account that isn't threaded (and the fact that they don't let you turn it off).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft would never do it without making it an option. But I am surprised to hear you say that you head Gmail’s threading. Quite honestly you have got to be the FIRST person I have heard say that.
I have never (till now) talked to anyone who switched to Gmail who didn’t have anything but good to say about it. Most people I know who use Outlook or Outlook Express and who do ANY real volume of email spend at least an hour to two hours a day “organizing” their email. They have a whole list of sub-folders under their Inbox and then have almost the exact same set of sub-folders under their “Sent Items”. They spend time trying to decide how to file things or if they should file it in the first place or just delete it. Sometimes they delete and email and two of three days later the whole issue has ballooned into a big issue and they are filing the responses but no longer have their original email because they didn’t think it would become important.
Gmail lets me keep my Inbox clean while at the same time never worrying about filing or organizing or having trouble finding things back. I would probably hate Gmail if I was still trying to fit it into my narrow 20-year-old “I must use folders” paradigm of thinking (which I did when I first started using Gmail) but it was fun to give up on that and the new paradigm of “never file, never delete” is so superior.
I don’t really case WHERE my email is as long as I can find it back in a natural way. I think in years to come we are going to see the same thing happening on computers and to some extent we already are. The #1 reason most people hate Windows Vista is because of the way the new “Explorer” obscures the hierarchal folder model that everyone is used to from our Norton Commander days. It is really very Mac-like. Most Mac users couldn’t tell you where their pictures were in terms of a “directory” or a “folder” but they have less trouble finding them, or copying them to a USB drive, or attaching them to an email then most Windows users.
If we ever do see WinFS (Windows Future Storage) it is supposed to be a Microsoft SQL layer bolted on top of the file system and gives you database-style searchability with all kinds of meta data attached.
The thinking behind the Reiser file system is that any structure on top of the file system for storing data indicates that the file system isn’t doing it’s job. And I can kinda see the point.
The Fish

I agree, Gmail should definately come out with direct push technology
I currently use gmail with pocket outlook with imap.
It's annoying having it set to check my email in intervals.
I didn't even know what direct push was until today, until i saw a friend using his phone w/ his private exchange server...my first reaction was wow...i want that!!
I'm hoping android will implement features like direct push, among others.

surgex0 said:
I didn't even know what direct push was until today, until i saw a friend using his phone w/ his private exchange server...my first reaction was wow...i want that!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It’s not even so much that I want “push” email (although that would be cool). The biggest issue is that there is no way to sync my Calendar and my Contacts with Gmail. This means I either A) have to use the Calendar/Contacts on my Touch in their “stand alone” form without syncing to anything or B) have to sync them with something else.
I really like being able to use my web-based Gmail calendar (Google Apps) but I wish like crazy there was some way to get this on my Touch.
The Fish.
PS: when you sign-up for Google Apps it asks you what (if any) previous mail system you used. As an example it says in brackets “Microsoft Exchange”. This makes me think that Google Apps is positioning themselves to take the SMB email market away from Exchange. I think if they really want to do this they will make Google Apps look just like an Exchange Server to the millions of WM devices out there. Currently I am seriously considering moving my email back to Exchange when I get my own server online (in a few weeks).

Google's apps for WM are all in java aren't they?
I know the gmail one is, and it sucks big c---.
I'd rather use opera and gmail html mobile than use their ****e java client.

surgex0 said:
Google's apps for WM are all in java aren't they?
I know the gmail one is, and it sucks big c---.
I'd rather use opera and gmail html mobile than use their ****e java client.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Googlemaps apparently has a native app now (altho I would rather use Livesearch), so no, they aren't all JAVA. I take it you visit the HTML site instead of using IMAP so that you can see the threading and other g-mail features?

If you want gmail to push, use SEVEN at
community.seven.com
john

Sync & Push
I use www.mobipush.com to push my gmail and it works instantaneously. Fantastic. This is free, perhaps only while they are in beta.
I also use www.oggsync.com for syncing my calendar. There is a free version, but I bought the software and daily sync about 11 calendars 2 months backwards and 2 years forwards. Hardly ever any issues. They are working on contact sync - have a public beta out now.

surgex0 said:
Google's apps for WM are all in java aren't they?
I know the gmail one is, and it sucks big c---.
I'd rather use opera and gmail html mobile than use their ****e java client.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don’t know if it’s really the Gmail client that sucks so much as that it just doesn’t run properly on the version of Java that comes on my Touch (the Bell Mobility Touch in Canada). I was pretty happy to have the Java Gmail client on my Razr back before I got my Touch.
That being said I keep hoping they will come out with a native Windows Mobile version like they did with Google Maps. But then again it seems kinda silly to come out with an email client for a device that already has a built-in integrated email client. The better solution would be to make the pre-exiting email, calendar and contacts features work properly (as in within their native capacity – meaning DirectPush) with their Gmail counterparts.
The Fish

[REQ] Sychronisation Options

I know there are a load of threads out there regarding syncing OTA but I thought I'd canvass some opinions from people to see if my current method can be imporved upon.
A little background:
I use a desktop PC running Windows 7 (build 7100) primarily but also have laptop for taking to Law School with me (also running Windows 7 build 7100).
I (obviously) also use an unbranded Touch HD.
I'm a devoted user of Outlook and it manages all my contacts, calendar appointments and tasks and neatly ties into my Onenote workbooks which I use for Law School.
The Problem
It's surprisingly difficult to keep all of the above in sync! Originally both machines were running Vista and I used my (very old) Hermes to keep the two sets of PIM in sync. This however produced quite a few confilcts over time and things like birthdays would appear repeated over and over again in my calendar.
I'm now using Google Sync to keep my calendar in sync which works well but doesn't sync the categories that entries are set with nor does it allow for attachments to sync with appointments.
For tasks and contacts synchronising I'm still plugging my phone in between the two computers but wondered if there was a more elegant solution.
I'd love to set up an exchange account but most of them are geared for corporate use only and (for example) the Microsoft Hosted Exchange requires a minimum of 5 users before you can sign up.
I'm managing with push email provided by Seven on my phone but would love to be able to have tasks and contacts pushed as well.
So, wise crowd of XDA Devs, would do people suggest? Any other options open to me? I've looked into Mail2Web but can't seem to get it to work properly, likewise Zimbra desktop but I really want to keep using Outlook (there's 5 years worth of information stashed away in my .pst file!).
Suggestions? Please?

As an attorney I know the importance of what your needing to do. Are you using gysyncit? http://www.daveswebsite.com/software/gsync/. I believe it gives you ota wireless sync for your calendar...not sure about tasks though.

Thanks for the links but it seems as though gSyncit does exactly what the offical Google version does but charges you $9.99 for the privilege?
Google licensed Activsync from Microsoft towards the start of the year rendering (IMO) all the 3rd party options a little redundant for syncing Google Calendar and Outlook.
For anyone reading this, you can find out more details over at the offical Google page.

Have you considered mail2web?
The provide an exchange server for a small monthly fee and offer outlook web access.
http://www.mail2web.com/

Exchange on the Hero, first impressions

I've noticed that not has much been said on the Hero's exchange support in any of the reviews or user reports so I thought I'd let people know what it's like as, for me, this is a must have feature. I should say that I have not had an android phone before and so I have had no experience with Nitrodesk's exchange solution so I can't compare.
Well, I entered my exchange details during initial set-up and after my first attempt was unsuccessful (SSL needed and is off by default) it than worked. Asked me if I wanted to sync Mail, Calender and Contacts all of which I selected. After the rest of the setup had finished the phone told me I had a new e-mail arrive so I could tell it was working straight away.
Mail is fantastic. Downloads everything fine, has at least as many options as WM for choosing which messages to download. E-mails look great on the display and html e-mails show up fine.
Contacts are great, they all appear straight away in the people and the phone application. All the Facebook and Flikr integration works perfectly. Only niggle is that you can't group contacts by company which is something I used to do on WM.
Calender seems to work fine. Appointments showed up ok, including appointments sent by e-mail.
All in all, the exchange sync is way better than expected and in some ways better than WM. The integration seems very deep and integral to the OS rather than a bolt on feature.

I agree with you there Bud, just a shame that there is no task sync support yet - still looking

All was fine for me, but as soon as I've allowed it to connect my contacts to FB contacts, sync fails for conacts with a 'client/server conversion error' message.
I'm using exchange 2003, mail and calendar are syncing fine, and I too would love tasks to be added, along with a fix for contacts and I'm a happy hero user

Strange - I have had no issues with the Fb sync but i use Exchange 07

Just Exchange, or...
...also Outlook?

not tried to sync with outlook yet, whats the best app for that?
I would settle for an outlook connector that I could just set to sync contacts and tasks, as these two arent really changing so frequently I wouldnt mind having to 'plug in' to sync these.

I just use exchange so can't comment on outlook sync. Facebook linking worked fine for me but I also have exchange 2007 so can only assume it's a problem there. Not sure if the exchange functionality is all implemented by HTC or whether they've used part of Nitrodesk's Touchdown but I saw on the Nitrodesk website that they don't support exchange 2003 yet.

gingepaul79 said:
not tried to sync with outlook yet, whats the best app for that?
I would settle for an outlook connector that I could just set to sync contacts and tasks, as these two arent really changing so frequently I wouldnt mind having to 'plug in' to sync these.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only app is HTC sync which is included along with the hero's manual on the sd card supplied with your phonbe, word of warning i just installed htc sync on my vista pc and it caused windows explorer to continuously crash until i uninstalled it, not impressed

Tried to install the app ealier, drivers failed and the app wont work (win 7 32 bit)

Going to try the long way round for now - sync outlook contacts to my google account and keep the google contacts synced to my phone - would I end up with a duplicate of everyone then though?

gingepaul79 said:
Going to try the long way round for now - sync outlook contacts to my google account and keep the google contacts synced to my phone - would I end up with a duplicate of everyone then though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I, like you (not I like you!), have synced up this way. I too cannot get HTC sync to work. I am sure Orange have bundled the wrong version.
So, I export Outlook to a file, then import contact file to google cal, then sync gcalendar to hero. Job done.
No duplicates, google calendar seems intelligent enough to recognise the dups

I would like to share my experience
Booted up.... would you like to set up exchange?
HELL YES!!!!
enter the details..... (internet accessible exchange server)
<entered>
What you wanna sync my boy?
EVERY GOD DAMN THING
oooooook here we go.......
<done.>
Sweet!

Thinking about an Adriod as my next phone, since I think WM is really falling behind everyone else! I use it mostly for work so a couple of questions if you don't mind....
No tasks syncing so far?
How does the calander work, are the views easy to see, day and week stuff?
Meeting requests work?
Can you flag email messages? This is a must for me and I hate that WM 6.5 can't even do it!
How do you find the keyboard replying to emails?
Can you open Word, Excel, PDF files?
Any other features it has for work that WM doesn't?
Thanks

Exchange
I'm having probs with exchange.
It will only sync my main inbox, not any of the subfolders I have, and will only sync via mobile network - fails on wifi ? ?
Then again can't get ANY web stuff on wifi ? ?

Word and excel fully creatable and editable with Docs to Go, and Open Office I think does let you read different docs though not sure which. Best PDF Reader seems to be RepliGo Reader which is good for books as well.
I'm only just getting to grips with Google Calendar but seems to have a great deal of flexibility for appts and stuff.
Widgets really just getting going, so I'm not sure of all those available...
Daisy - Magic owner, so Hero may be slightly different xx

herman3101 said:
I've noticed that not has much been said on the Hero's exchange support in any of the reviews or user reports so I thought I'd let people know what it's like as, for me, this is a must have feature. I should say that I have not had an android phone before and so I have had no experience with Nitrodesk's exchange solution so I can't compare.
Well, I entered my exchange details during initial set-up and after my first attempt was unsuccessful (SSL needed and is off by default) it than worked. Asked me if I wanted to sync Mail, Calender and Contacts all of which I selected. After the rest of the setup had finished the phone told me I had a new e-mail arrive so I could tell it was working straight away.
Mail is fantastic. Downloads everything fine, has at least as many options as WM for choosing which messages to download. E-mails look great on the display and html e-mails show up fine.
Contacts are great, they all appear straight away in the people and the phone application. All the Facebook and Flikr integration works perfectly. Only niggle is that you can't group contacts by company which is something I used to do on WM.
Calender seems to work fine. Appointments showed up ok, including appointments sent by e-mail.
All in all, the exchange sync is way better than expected and in some ways better than WM. The integration seems very deep and integral to the OS rather than a bolt on feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have reiceved my G2 touch and havn't been able to setup exchange sync over the air. It goes past first option i.e. to show me what i want to synch mail, contacts, calendar and than when I click on finish setup it fails with message unable to create account try later! Any idea what is going wrong. How can I fix it?
Sachin

Anyone have any experience with exchange sync where the server requires you to set a password/pincode for the phone?
Heard some people saying that this was not supported by the Hero. A pity if true, as I need this to work in order to be able to use the Hero as a work phone (in other words, if I am to buy a Hero).

The out of the box exchange support is really very good. It just needs the ability to authenticate via password or client certificate.
I much prefer it to WM, but only because its completely finger friendly.
Yes you can flag emails, and they show up under the flagged emails tab at the bottom.

I really really hope the update within 10 days or September will affect this thing? Need to be able to sync more than one folder at the time.

cbailey said:
I, like you (not I like you!), have synced up this way. I too cannot get HTC sync to work. I am sure Orange have bundled the wrong version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
works for me on vista 64 with orange branded HTC Touch. I believe there is an update on the HTC website, not sure if that enables win7 support
I certainly didn't notice explorer crashing after I installed it, chances are it's another explorer extension interfering (either a media codec that is failing at showing thumbnails, or a right-click extension or similar)

HTC Sync on Nexus One

I want to sync my Outlook information on my PC with the Nexus one and I have heard good news about the HTC sync. Does anyone know if the HTC Sync will work with the Nexus One or does anyone know a better app? Thanks.

scuse me while a LMFAO!!!
No, it won't work with HTC sync. sadly, i don't know of any alternatives. If you are just using it for the first initial sync, then just import your outlook information into your google account and be done with it.
If you need ongoing sync possibilities, then unless anyone else knows something that i don't, then this is not the droid you're looking for.

Thanks, I figured as such.

Nobody has any concern about uploading all these potentially personal and sensitive information into the cloud?
We really trust Google that much?

To sync your calender events you can use this:
http://www.google.com/support/calendar/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=89955
To sync your Outlook contacts, you can set u your Exchange account to sync contacts as well.

I'm not 'afraid' of Google, but I would prefer that my desktop and my device be synced. Contacts, Calendar, etc. I use Outlook, and I was happy when my Hermes was in-sync. I'd definitely like Outlook-Android sync.
-bZj

The days of PC > Device sync are dying a slow and painful death. From MobileMe to Google Sync to Microsoft Exchange & MyPhone, just about every smartphone short of Blackberry wants you to use the 'cloud'. Not like it matters, seeing as how we are already in the Matrix...

This is simply not true - it might be true for end-users, but you can be pretty sure that most companies will not allow "cloud sync" in the forseeable future. They have their own IT infrastructure and IT policies do not allow sharing of corporate data on some 3rd party servers like Google "Cloud".
Google knows that, and that's why they did enable MS Exchange ActiveSync.
However, for many SMEs this does not work, as they do not rely on MS Exchange - their workers rather use desktop outlook accounts.
IMHO this is a very big problem. I am experimenting with few Android sync applications ("Missing Sync", "CompanionLink", etc...) but all of them have some flaws - like no 2-way sync, some proprietary calendar app, etc...

Ivan Dimkovic said:
This is simply not true - it might be true for end-users, but you can be pretty sure that most companies will not allow "cloud sync" in the forseeable future. They have their own IT infrastructure and IT policies do not allow sharing of corporate data on some 3rd party servers like Google "Cloud".
Google knows that, and that's why they did enable MS Exchange ActiveSync.
However, for many SMEs this does not work, as they do not rely on MS Exchange - their workers rather use desktop outlook accounts.
IMHO this is a very big problem. I am experimenting with few Android sync applications ("Missing Sync", "CompanionLink", etc...) but all of them have some flaws - like no 2-way sync, some proprietary calendar app, etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried TOUCHDOWN?

TOUCHDOWN? what this? i don't want to import all the contacts to Google, prefer my desktop and device be synced...

I'm on the same boat here. I was very happy with Symbian-iSync/Mac-iPhone ecosystem until I moved to Android/Linux. Open standard support does not exist on this Android/Linux combination.
Talking about open standard, there is Android-SyncML app in the work. It's still an alpha release, so I'm not sure how reliable it is. But this is a good sign. Once Android has SyncML support, then you can sync to whatever platform supporting this protocol.
Google "android-client syncml". (I can't post links)

I think most of us already sold their soul to Google... so yah?! hahahaha
eaglesteve said:
Nobody has any concern about uploading all these potentially personal and sensitive information into the cloud?
We really trust Google that much?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Touch is for an exchange server not to be used with a pop or imap. Would love to get HTC sync to work with my epic. Why hasn't someone came up with a good solution?

Companion Link
I wanted ongoing sync with outlook and was disappointed there's nothing that is good and free for n1. I bought companion link for google and outlook. It was $30 but it works well. So outlook updates google (not the phone directly but you can get it to sync the phone directly) and then the phone syncs with google.

k?
phone <-> cloud <-> desktop
Is how it's meant to work. What bit doesn't?

@Henchman: You saved my life I went around for ages looking for that!

I'm on take two trying to type this without sounding condencending but its hard because some people just dont get it. It often doesnt matter what you want at work. You do your job the way you are told. Many people have to sync with a local version of outlook, the cloud isnt an option and wont be for a long time if ever on third party servers. Got nothing to do with what they want or whats better. Got nothing to do with whether or not you think or I think or anyone thinks outlook sucks. Its a fact of life while going about the job. I have to use two phones because of this and like many I wish android would grow up so it could go out in the daddy world which is dominated by microsoft as far as office software goes. Another thing that wont be changing quickly due to the long term investment in it. And yes, I get that many of you can use it as a work phone. A whole lot of people cant and were talking millions which brings me back to the beginning. Many people cannot use a third party cloud solution and must sync with a local install of outlook for various reasons. OK?

rhedgehog said:
scuse me while a LMFAO!!!
No, it won't work with HTC sync..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Working now
http://android.modaco.com/content/g...nc-on-nexus-one-with-r24-edit-working/#entry0
There's also an updated version available now from HTC.

DirkGently1 said:
Working now
http://android.modaco.com/content/g...nc-on-nexus-one-with-r24-edit-working/#entry0
There's also an updated version available now from HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, so the Nexus One works with HTC Sync, and HTC Sync can sync Outlook contacts and calender entries. (http://www.htc.com/www/support.aspx)
Cool.
I've tried Touchdown and other competitors, and like the above posters, I felt Companion Link came the closest. I was very close to buying their license (i called them once and they do allow the $39 license to be used on 3 PCs that you may want to sync your phone with. Eg. Laptop and Desktop).
This *might* lose CompanionLink some customers, but can anyone verify if HTC Sync can sync Tasks and Notes too, like CompanionLink does?
I like CompanionLink for that and their post 3.2 versions seem to be doing it well. The only problems I see that have given me pause to fully purchasing it are:
- Fat thumbs..I still use my Winmo Keyboard phone thus.
- SMS Bug in Android is still not worked out.
- DejaOffice is the front end application for CompanionLink on N1 and in Android, and its not a totally seamless experience with the front end UI integration that Tasks and Calender had in the Windows Mobile environment/desktop/home-screen. (Maybe some widgets might give resolve to that).
That said, Swype skillz + SMS Bug Fix + Widgets vs Dejaoffice, would make Companionlink a winner for me, and would get my money, because theirs no cloud involved.

Couldn't this answer your question?
http://www.android-sync.com/
It's an early build like they say. But it might match what you're looking for.

[Q] Need help with syncing calendars

I'm having a really hard time setting up calendar syncing with my phone. I've done lots of research and I'm taking tiny steps but it's so frustrating I was hoping someone with more experience could help.
I have an HD2 (hence this forum) and I'm running WM6.5.x and Android FroYo. I wanted to set up a calendar I could update on either OS as well on my PC and on the interwebz.
So, I've got my Windows Live account which syncs everything but Calendar to my WM OS but is great for PC/net, I have my Google calendar, which I exported the iCal link for Live to use, which I assume will sync with android automatically and finally I installed office outlook 2010 (which I don't wanna use) to try syncing with my Live calendar to my WM OS which failed because Mobile Device centre doesn't recognise 64-bit Office! apparently neither does google's calendar sync app (error 1011, even after attempting all the fixes).
To summarise:
Google->Windows Live<->Outlook 2010 x64
^
|
v
Android
Windows Mobile
I'm going to try Companionlink to connect Outlook to Google, but i'm looking for a simpler solution. I'm not convinced my microsoft exchange with google is working (I get the amber icon when I try to sync and nothing changes) so if someone thing's it'll be necessary, that'll need sorting.
PLEASE HELP!!! Thanks for reading

I managed to fix the microsoft exchange to google from my wm os by removing tasks from the sync list.
Campanion link (v3) however is fairly useless and I'm not paying for software to do something which should happen automatically and be set up easily.
I also found a way to view my windows live calendar on google, but both
windows live->google
and
google->windows live
are one way, and work separately to eachother (acting as another calendar)
I may be able to clear my google calendar and just sync the copy from my windows live calendar to my android OS, but this will never sync back to windows live meaning everything has to be done from windows live (on my PC).
Alternatively I could try the opposite and clear my windows live calendar and have it just show my google calendar which will properly sync (2-way) with both phone OSs, but is less convenient to use on my PC.
Finally, I stumbled across a website called Mash iCal, which supposedly merges calendars from multiple sources and feeds them back through each source so they all match. This would be great, except windows live wouldn't let me allow it.
It seems every solution has a flaw, it would be really useful to get some fresh ideas from people