Database Users

Why different CPUs in Wizard and Apache?

Hi!
The Apache comes with the "well known" Intel PXA270 CPU that runs on 416 MHz.
The Wizard has this "sloppy" TiOMAP CPU that runs on 200 MHz.
Why did they use this "sloooow" CPU on the GSM-version of the device?
Will there be an Apache for GSM? What platform will the upcoming vodafone VPA compact 2 be (I heard something of "HTC Prodigy"?!)
ARGH!
Who nows the "secret"?
Greetings
plant

Secret is Clock Speed DOESNT EQUAL actual speed.
The wizard will do more calculations per cycle (like AMD processors). It means roughly the same performance for less power and less battery consumption.
There are benchmarks somewhere that shows Wizard out performs the Magician.

BigDamHero said:
Secret is Clock Speed DOESNT EQUAL actual speed.
The wizard will do more calculations per cycle (like AMD processors). It means roughly the same performance for less power and less battery consumption.
There are benchmarks somewhere that shows Wizard out performs the Magician.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I can only found benchmarks of Java on Wizard vs Magician, it seems that the benchmarks of Java not fully represent the speed or precessing power of a CPU.

Yeah you have to take into account that they are different types of CPU, so their speeds can't be directly related. I am very impressed by the Wizards speed. I find it often to be faster that my Magician.
The only area where I find the Magician was a fair bit better is video playback. I use TCPMP, and it has optimizations for Xscale, so the Magician beats it in that area.

BigDamHero said:
There are benchmarks somewhere that shows Wizard out performs the Magician.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then show me THIS benchmarks.
I only can give you a link where nearly *everything* outperforms the Wizard! It looks like a desaster performancewise...
http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/htc-wizard-en.shtml
Greetings
plant

Those benchmarks just don't match with my ACTUAL experience using the device. It is no way as slow as those benchmarks would have you believe. Mine is consistently as fast as or only slightly slower than my XDA Mini was, definately not as drastically slower as those benchmarks show.
It is definately not a disaster performancewise if you configure it properly, using progs that support WM5 and don't install the AV software.

Hi!
How fast runs Navigon Mobilenavigaor 5? It's quite ok on my Magician but I think the Wizard will make it even more sloppy. It's ok that it *feels* fast at OS use - but how fast *is it really* running software that actually needs high performance like MN5 or TomTom 5?
And one question remains: Why are they using the PXA270 in the US-Version of the Wizard (Sprint PPC-6700)?
Just my €0.02
Greetings
plant

The PPC-6700 is not a version of the Wizard, but a different device called Apache. It has a different design than the Wizard, including the Xscale processor, use of EVDO/CDMA instead of quadband GSM, different keyboard and an external antenna.

plantagoo said:
Hi!
How fast runs Navigon Mobilenavigaor 5? It's quite ok on my Magician but I think the Wizard will make it even more sloppy. It's ok that it *feels* fast at OS use - but how fast *is it really* running software that actually needs high performance like MN5 or TomTom 5?
And one question remains: Why are they using the PXA270 in the US-Version of the Wizard (Sprint PPC-6700)?
Just my €0.02
Greetings
plant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SBP Benchmark comparisions are meaningless as the Wizard uses a totally different CPU architecture (i.e. dual core) and file system to the others. It's real life experience that counts. TTN5 on mine takes slightly longer to load than the Magician (because of the non volatile memory), but once it's running I barely notice any difference. Sure, if you want high frame rate video for games, look elsewhere, but for day to day use as PDA / Phone / GPS / MP3 player it's every bit as good as the Magician - but with much better battery life, and no risk of you losing all your data if you forget to charge it!

Yes, the battery life is absolutely awesome on this device!!! It lasts much longer than my Magician did, and that including use of WiFi!

only 200mhz?

hi everybody.
i am thinking about to buy a htc wizard (qtek 9100).
i now noticed that the qtek s110 has 416mhz, but the 9100 only 200.
is there a big difference between the two, or is the 200mhz processor as fast as the one with 416?
thx

the Wizard has a differend type of processor than the s110. Its kind of like Intel vs AMD. The mhz doesn't mean it is slower.

I think the wizard is slightly quicker then the intel one but what slows it down is lack of programs using the texas instruments processor extensions and the
non persistant program memory which slows the program loading times quite a lot.
but u get more use out of your batt as it doesnt reserve 30% batt life for ram.

Does the universal lose everything if the battery goes to 0% ? I thought the wizard and the universal were both the same in that they retained their status even on no power ?

knowsleyroader: you are correct. They use persistent memory that will be retained without power. They're slower as a result, but the benefit is what is considered a marginal battery life improvement.
All should read this:
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/11/17/494177.aspx
Wizard is generally considered fine for cpu power. I've never used it, but most seem to say it's fine on everything except Skype (which some have found ok). Since you can't get another device with WM5 of the Magician's size (I think), the Wizard is pretty much your only choice right now.
Unless you've got a 700w
V

Pocket Quake runs at a respectable 8.5fps (default settings), and 14.5 (optiomized settings, no sound). I have the Spb Benchmarks (overview below) if you want them.
I find the device slow, but it is not the processor that really slows it down, it is the IO.
On the keeps memory on power-off. I have read reports of the battery needing some fiddling inorder to recharge the battery if you let it run flat.
Spb Benchmark index 232.4 (iPAQ 3650 scored 1000)
CPU index 927.45 (iPAQ 3650 scored 1000)
File system index 94.72 (iPAQ 3650 scored 1000)
Graphics index 2862.38 (iPAQ 3650 scored 1000)
Platform index 273.92 (iPAQ 3650 scored 1000)

intel vs AMD. The mhz doesn't mean it is slower
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
speed is everything my friend
well i had a xda2 mini s had it not even a week and took it back to the o2 shop . and told the guy that the phone is far to slow for what i use it for . so i changed it for a xda2i . and now i am very happy with it never crashes and does not hang up while changing screens like the mini .
intel (r) pxa275
speed 520mhz
128mb ram
thats the speed of my 2i . in my eyes the mini is a phone and just a phone . it cant handle being a pda also . it just dont have the power . and as for the slide out keypad what a joke . my one was starting to get slack in no time . i just could not imagine how this phone would look 6 months down the line of day to day use . be smart and get something that works . ok it looks good but its slooooow
my 0.002 pence worth

musiccube said:
intel vs AMD. The mhz doesn't mean it is slower
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
speed is everything my friend
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speed may well be to you, personally i find the functionality more important, but the MHz quote says that processor speed doesn't mean the device operation is slower. it uses a different architecture so the clock speed doesn't need to be as high for the same output (CPS would be a better measure of cpu performance IMO then all processors would be on the same scoresheet regardless of technology or clockspeed)

http://forum.xda-developers.com/posting.php?mode=reply&t
Sorry to drag this off topic a little, but I was reading the XDA-developer encylopedia, which gives claims duel core. Is it? And does duel core in the mobile world mean the same as in the desktop?
Thanks, Mike

Having owned quite a number of Pocket PCs and Windows Mobile devices over the years I have come across this sort of conversation a number of times.
The real point from my experience is that QVGA devices such as the Wizard / Mini S do not need the speed of say a VGA device such as the Exec / HP hx4705. Speed is needed on VGA devices due to the quantity of pixels that need to be updated on the screen. My HP 2210 QVGA device was quicker in a number of ways than my hx4705 and there latter machine was quoted to have more than a 50% speed increase.
I do notice my Wizard slow a little using PocketInformant when I need to filter or search. That to me looks like processor speed. But for that I get a good battery life while using the phone side quite a bit each day (it's a work sim card in there, fully paid for). My Exec however is quicker at data sorting, filtering etc. but relatively slow to update the screen, rotate the screen etc. Exactly the same as my hx4705, also VGA running the last version of Windows Mobile.
I have no reservation in suggesting the Wizard to people wanting to do a bit of everything. I haven't tried playing a film on it yet but I would expect that to be ok as long as the film is encoded to suite. But power users would likely look to either a more powerful solo device or have a second device to compliment it.
I was just lucky that O2 in the UK are offering such rediculous prices for both the Wizard and the Exec that I could get both.

acetuk said:
Wizard / Mini S do not need the speed of say a VGA device such as the
of everything. I haven't tried playing a film on it yet but I would expect that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except the magican (a model down, sports the same size screen) is 400MHz.

That's a very interesting point. But is it the same make of processor? I expect it was running a Xscale processor.
It might well be that HTC decided / realised that for a phone edition model with a small QVGA screen pure raw speed is not really needed. By moving to the TI processor they kept to about the same speed for most real world scenarios (loading programs, looking up contacts, making calls and so on) and then gained elsewhere (received good battery life etc).
All I can really say is that my wizard is faster in certain core areas of these devices (screen redrawing for example) but loses out on pure raw data processing. But as I said at the start of this I don't read the benchmarks. My wizard is a fraction of a second slower than my exec at loading PocketInformant which I can live with.
I think the wizard is positioned correctly after one week of using it. But then I never used the predecessor so I can't compare the two. Having come from one of the fastest non-phone devices on the market though I can't say I'm really noticing the slowness of these devices. Not out in the real world when I am using them.
Now, I just have to sell on my hx4705. And to say that must mean I am happy!
Thanks for the interesting conversation - I'm new here but already feel at home.

well, but I heard alot that the MDAcII with its TI CPU is too slow to open large documents and so is useless for bussiness and that seems to be a problem of the CPU-power!

I've been using a Blue Angel for the last year and actually think that the Wizard is faster for my own use, as a Phone first and PDA second the market that IMHO opinion the Wizard is actually aimed at.
I use SPB to close down apps properly that I use infrequently (word/Excel etc..) and just minimize apps that I use frequently such as Outlook/Phone and my Wizard flies. Even TomTom5 appears to run much faster than on Blue Angel with route replanning completing in the blink of an eye.
Fair enough if you are asking it to run intensive apps a 2i or universal will be faster but those devices are more PDA than Phone whereas the Wizard is the reverse.
For reference mine is an O2 UK supplied XDA Mini S branded device on standard O2 UK rom with all O2 active rubbish removed. Even the battery life beats my SE k750i mobile it has just replaced!

wilesd said:
I've been using a Blue Angel for the last year and actually think that the Wizard is faster for my own use, as a Phone first and PDA second the market that IMHO opinion the Wizard is actually aimed at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ooh so I'm not alone!
Same here, especially for browsing heavy sites. The BA would take ages formatting the pages, the Wizard also takes time but less. Interface seems faster to me too (once apps loaded - loading time is dependent on the new memory architecture).
Browsing photos with Resco photo explorer is about the same.
The only point on where I can see big difference is video playback. I haven't been able to play a single video without hangups yet, either by using the same ones than I had on the BA or by trying to reencode differently (using TCPMP). A video that would play at 125% on the BA runs maybe at 75-80%. That annoys me because I would like to use it to show videos to people as a demo, which obviously looks less serious if not smooth.
I wonder if that is TCPMP-related or OMAP-related...
BUT, battery life is great!!

Hey guys, i'm considering 'upgrading'(?) from an xda2i to the mini s, and i've noticed you talking about different programs running faster/slower on either device. Was wondering if you could give me a 'rule of thumb' as to which programs would have loss performance in the mini s compared the the 2i?
Thanks

kilrah said:
wilesd said:
I've been using a Blue Angel for the last year and actually think that the Wizard is faster for my own use, as a Phone first and PDA second the market that IMHO opinion the Wizard is actually aimed at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ooh so I'm not alone!
Same here, especially for browsing heavy sites. The BA would take ages formatting the pages, the Wizard also takes time but less. Interface seems faster to me too (once apps loaded - loading time is dependent on the new memory architecture).
Browsing photos with Resco photo explorer is about the same.
The only point on where I can see big difference is video playback. I haven't been able to play a single video without hangups yet, either by using the same ones than I had on the BA or by trying to reencode differently (using TCPMP). A video that would play at 125% on the BA runs maybe at 75-80%. That annoys me because I would like to use it to show videos to people as a demo, which obviously looks less serious if not smooth.
I wonder if that is TCPMP-related or OMAP-related...
BUT, battery life is great!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Similar experience here - my former PDA is a Dell X50V with a 624Mhz processor and PocketPC 2003SE, at times it's surprisingly sluggish. However, the wizard is more responsive - although I miss the VGA screen in general I prefer the Wizard for browsing.
My only complaint about the processor so far (I haven't tried gaming) is that it's not much good for playing back wmvs. I've not experimented much with it but this is an area where the X50V is very good - it can play highish bitrate WMVs no sweat. The Wizard seems to struggle, even with lower resolution and bitrate wmvs it stutters.
John

About this, how to overclock the wizard ... ??!!

musiccube said:
intel (r) pxa275
speed 520mhz
128mb ram
thats the speed of my 2i .....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Universal has all that too. But, guess what, the overall experience of that "flagship" is slower than the Wizard. Which goes to show, the CPU clock speed has b*gger all to do with how a device performs in the real world.

Once Again: Magician Or Wizard?

Hi There All!
Get back from a longer break, because my magician is in service.
My friend called me last day and offered a Wizard (T-mobile Vario) to me.
I have read that the Wizard has a slower processor, but it is a dual cored think or what....I heard it is like the processors in the laptop (ex.: centrino has 1.6 GHz but it is 2.x GHz.)
So all guys who have tried it, and magician too, please post the experiments.
I want to use it for/to:
- WiFi
- MP3 Playback
- Some video playback maybe
- Read E-books/ Adobe PDFs
- Play with some games (mainly high quality games such as Arvale, Everquest, Myst etc.)
- Take pictures/videos
So please post your opinions, about Wizard, and tells me which one of this will be slower, on Wizard.
Thanks, and Cheers

OK, so it's not dual core, hell no.
Well, OK, it is. But one core is for the radio stuff, and is not used in application processing.
It is a different /type/ of processor though, so it's not really fair to compare it to the X-scale in the magician (I think it's from Texas Instruments?). I hear it is a mite slower though, so I don't know.
Also: it has Windows Mobile 5, so you can get your A2DP on from any app, not just WMP.
Me, I'd go for it in a shot. Hell, if Orange UK did one I'd have one already, those odd kids.

bobgorila said:
OK, so it's not dual core, hell no.
Well, OK, it is. But one core is for the radio stuff, and is not used in application processing.
It is a different /type/ of processor though, so it's not really fair to compare it to the X-scale in the magician (I think it's from Texas Instruments?). I hear it is a mite slower though, so I don't know.
Also: it has Windows Mobile 5, so you can get your A2DP on from any app, not just WMP.
Me, I'd go for it in a shot. Hell, if Orange UK did one I'd have one already, those odd kids.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you say OMAP is slower for multimedia (MP3, Video). And for the other ones?

Nope, I didn't. Though the wiki article on the Wizard certainly seems to suggest that.
I'd be interested to know how it fares with the sorts of files I view, and now that TCPMP is at 0.72 (the test were done with 0.50).
Certainly the implication is that it is not so hot for multi-tasking, which is a shame. My Magician seems to carry on almost as normal while I play music of various bitrates and codecs, if the Wizard did not then it would be a big minus.
Also: the Hermes has a 300Mhz Samsung chip, I wonder how it stacks up against these two? That thing certainly is looking like a dream phone right now.

The Omap 850 definately is slower than the XScale in the Magician. This is what many people state and what Benchmarks prove. Also the slow flash memory and WM5 makes a big difference. Don't expect the speed of a Magician with any of the HTC WM5 devices.
The Samsung CPU in the Hermes has about the performance as the XScale of the Magician.

Magician VS. Charmer - Processor

Hi Folks,
I need a new smartphone and I love the HTC devices.
I've been reading a lot of data charts lately and I'm really confused.
WHY IN THE WORLD did they cut magicians processor power in halfs when they built his successor charmer??
Magician has an Intel XScale Prozessor Bulverde with 416 MHz. That's about the power I'm looking for. But they downgraded Charmer to a Texas Instruments OMAP 850 Prozessor with ridiculously 206 MHz.
My old beloved Wallaby has almost more power!
Can anybody explain this decision?
I didn't find any benchmark tests of charmer on the internet. Magician's benchmarks are awesome for his size and high enough to play pocket quake or watch unconverted videos, but it seems nowbody is testing Charmer.
Any people here with a Charmer who want to run SPB benchmark (http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/benchmark/?en) for me and post the results? or just tell me how many fps unvonverted .avi movies give you.
THX!

Hey. The charmer has about 1000 SPB benchmark points, the Magician around 1600. That's a fact, also for the Wizard and the Prophet. A good alternative could be the Hermes which comes out soon and has the Samsung 400 MHz CPU.

There are Magician benchmark, which is approx 1,200 (I've got that from http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=54370&highlight=). ). As for the Charmer, it is way way way lower than that. See the chart
here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=313810#313810
The only thing Charmer is good at seems to be the graphics. But there is a benchmark on charmer regarding video playback, which is still not as good as the Magician, which I suspect because of the low bandwidth of the Charmer's file I/O.
Take a look here as well
http://www.modaco.com/Benchmark_results_of_MDA_Compact_II-t234674.html

Any idea why they sacrificed so much power?
the data charts don't really say something about great improvement in batery life due to the slower CPU, which appears to be the only logical reason to downgrade a CPU in a PDA.
why did they do that? the charmer seemed so promising perfect with WM 5, long batery life and small size....
is WM 5.0 less power hungery?

Most state that WM5 is slower. I suppose this is mainly due to the new memory layout of WM5.
Why did they include a slower CPU into the Charmer? Maybe due to the cheaper price and HTCs stupid management? If you want a faster WM5 device with phone edition, then look for the Eten M600 (very good benchmark results) or wait for the HTC Hermes which is soon to come and presumably will have better benchmark results as well.
The charmer is a rediculous device as the successor of the Magician.

Most state that WM5 is slower. I suppose this is mainly due to the new memory layout for WM5.
Why did they include a slower CPU into the Charmer? Maybe due to the cheaper price and a stupid management? If you want a faster WM5 device with phone edition, then look for the Eten M600 (very good benchmark results) or wait for the HTC Hermes which is soon to come and presumably will have better benchmark results as well.

Another probable reason for the lack in speed in Charmer probably due to the persistant flash memory (doesn't need battery to keep the data) which is usually slower than the non-persistant ones. Think of it as having SD as storage for the Charmer. Someone ought to do a test on Wizard and compare Charmer against Wizard.

I think they reduce the processor speed in order to increase the battery life... because most of the times, fast processor consumes battery life as well. we can see from iPAQ h6365 where it uses 168MHz processor. battery life was very good (apart from its 1800Mah battery, of course)

geoffrey23 said:
I think they reduce the processor speed in order to increase the battery life... because most of the times, fast processor consumes battery life as well. we can see from iPAQ h6365 where it uses 168MHz processor. battery life was very good (apart from its 1800Mah battery, of course)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly
the charmer and the prophet are designed as fones with ppc capabilities.
ppc battery life is a day or less, the charmer et al several days.
all depends on what you want the device for really, sometimes the lack of speed frustrates me, but the ability to go days between charges doesnt

Any one knwos the battery life of the Magician? My Charmer last only like 3-4 days with average 1/2 hours of talk and some basic usage, 24 hours phone on - standby

MY MAGICIAN (o2 XDAII mini) can only last for maximum 2 days...
And it 's very unstable when battery is getting low ...
Thoughts: Slower CPU and higher capacity battery seems to be the only solution to extend the battery life.... I rather charge every day and have a faster device

Dandie said:
If you want a faster WM5 device with phone edition, then look for the Eten M600 (very good benchmark results) or wait for the HTC Hermes which is soon to come and presumably will have better benchmark results as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the tip with the eten m600. looks really nice.
do you know any company who sells them with contracts in germany? I have problems finding carriers outside england on google or ebay.
I guess hermes will take another month (or two).

moeph said:
thanks for the tip with the eten m600. looks really nice.
do you know any company who sells them with contracts in germany? I have problems finding carriers outside england on google or ebay.
I guess hermes will take another month (or two).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can get it for example here

Lets wait for the HTC Trinity
http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/01/htc-trinity-revealed/

Always waiting - I'm sick of it 8)
The Hermes has everything besides GPS that the Trinity will have. It doesn't feature normal SD cards as well, that may have been a reason for me to wait. Integrated GPS is useless in my opinion. The integrated reveivers have bad connection quality and all maps that you can get for navigation software are only working well for car navigation - my car has enough space for a Bluetooth GPS mouse. No need to wait if you ask me.

OK, but HTC Hermes is not HTC Magician form factor. It has a keyboard and is much heavier and thicker. It compares to the HTC Wizard.
The HTC Prophet I will skip, it is the same form factor as Magician, but has a slow CPU and no UMTS/HSDPA.
And to bring you up to date: in those new devices is an "A-GPS" which means "assisted GPS". This means, GPS data is supported by localization data from the mobile network. That results in a much quicker first satellite fix and equals out some disadvantages of these small GPS chips. However, if your mobile network provider does not support A-GPS, you have a weaker GPS reception than with state of the art GPS mouses.

esackbauer said:
OK, but HTC Hermes is not HTC Magician form factor. It has a keyboard and is much heavier and thicker. It compares to the HTC Wizard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mh, ok. I will see how much the difference is in my pocket. I think it weighs 30 grams more than the Magician and is about 5 mm thicker. I think I can live with that, especially because I'd like to have a keyboard and I don't want to wait anymore
esackbauer said:
And to bring you up to date: in those new devices is an "A-GPS" which means "assisted GPS". This means, GPS data is supported by localization data from the mobile network. That results in a much quicker first satellite fix and equals out some disadvantages of these small GPS chips. However, if your mobile network provider does not support A-GPS, you have a weaker GPS reception than with state of the art GPS mouses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, you're right, assuming your provider supports A-GPS (additional costs?). But still there is the point with the standard navigation software which just isn't suited for navigation by foot or by bike. For the car, I can use a GPS mouse without any disadvantage (I already have one anyway). Personally, I don't see a good reason to wait for the Trinity.

omap 850 isn't slow!!! intel xscale is only 416 Mhz arm9 core while omap is an 195 mhz arm9 combined vith 67,5Mhz arm7 mcu(mcu speeds up the main core cause it controles ram instead of main core) so 195 mhz omap is aprox. or more 312 mhz of xscale, it also has 100 MHZ integer and floating point core and 2d accelator.....

So you say charmer is actually faster than magician? I'm having a dilema between these two, don't know which to buy? But would prefer faster...

of course no.

TyTN/Hermes DOES NOT underperform.

What on earth is going on? I know where talking about 2 different Moblie operating Systems and devices, but he performance difference explains alot in terms of why the TyTN/Hermes....is underperforming in the Video department, especially with TCPMP.
If this is the case with Video, which can easily be measured for performance, how much more are these Hermes devices lacking in other departments.
Apparently the developers of TCPMP at corecodec are aware of this problem, but it seems to be more related to the Hermes itself.
Below are a few screenshots of 2 different Pocket PCs using the same Samsung 400 Mhz CPU but with completely different results.
Also, I would not necessariliy pay the figures too much mind if the Video performance was at least as good as on the Vario I or the HTC Prophet, but it is not IMHO.
Tell me what you guys think. Maybe I've got it all wrong.
I did have it at all wrong. please read up about the ATI thingy in other post.

I'm dissapointed with the speed too. I'm wondering if it's got anything to do with the 32-bit bus used?

bydandie said:
I'm dissapointed with the speed too. I'm wondering if it's got anything to do with the 32-bit bus used?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi bydandie.
You may have a point, but then I'm not having any other speed issues. What were the bus speeds on the Universal and Wizard? Do you know? Also;
Samsung (R)2442A [Hermes]
Samsung S3C2440 [HP iPAQ rx3715]
Both run @ 400Mhz
but as we can they don't appear to be identical processors. I'll google around for some info as I'm no expert, but it may still be ROM specific.
What Hermes variant have you got again? and what ROM version?

I was hoping the upgraded 200 extra mhz over the Vario, would be good, apprently it doesn't sound like the video playback is that much better. What is the video playback like ?

This is down to the Hermes not being able to utilise the ATI acceleration technology (can't remember the actual name) properly.
If you try playing a video in TCPMP with the acceleration on, on the Hermes, you will find that the screen shutters like mad!
So you can only use raw video mode for now, which is pretty slow. (But plenty quick enough for 320x240 videos, i.e. most "pocket pr0n")

mackaby007 said:
bydandie said:
I'm dissapointed with the speed too. I'm wondering if it's got anything to do with the 32-bit bus used?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi bydandie.
You may have a point, but then I'm not having any other speed issues. What were the bus speeds on the Universal and Wizard? Do you know? Also;
Samsung (R)2442A [Hermes]
Samsung S3C2440 [HP iPAQ rx3715]
Both run @ 400Mhz
but as we can they don't appear to be identical processors. I'll google around for some info as I'm no expert, but it may still be ROM specific.
What Hermes variant have you got again? and what ROM version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Wizard was 16-bit. I'm using the v1605 but with the HTC ROM.

mackaby007 said:
Hi bydandie.
You may have a point, but then I'm not having any other speed issues. What were the bus speeds on the Universal and Wizard? Do you know? Also;
Samsung (R)2442A [Hermes]
Samsung S3C2440 [HP iPAQ rx3715]
Both run @ 400Mhz
but as we can they don't appear to be identical processors. I'll google around for some info as I'm no expert, but it may still be ROM specific.
What Hermes variant have you got again? and what ROM version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both run at the same CPU speed, but have very different operating systems. According to the screen shot in the first post, the rx3700 tested is running pocket pc 4.21 (2003 second edition IIRC), whereas the Hermes is running Windows Mobile 5. I would guess the rx3700 doesn't have the slowdown related to persistant storage (for example), using some form of flash for memory is going to be slower than RAM.

I have a Eten M600 on WM5 and the samsung 400 proc. the TyTN use also the 400 proc.
When i compare them both on speed then my Eten is much faster in every way. much more responsive. opening and rendering screens.
Altough i prefer my TyTN over the M600, the build-hardware and sound is much better.
I guess it must be the ROM that isn't perfect yet ( and it isn't perfect yet for sure).

I have a Eten M600 on WM5 and the samsung 400 proc. the TyTN use also the 400 proc.
When i compare them both on speed then my Eten is much faster in every way. much more responsive. opening and rendering screens.
Altough i prefer my TyTN over the M600, the build-hardware and sound is much better.
I guess it must be the ROM that isn't perfect yet ( and it isn't perfect yet for sure).

ROM or CPU lacking?
luminus said:
I have a Eten M600 on WM5 and the samsung 400 proc. the TyTN use also the 400 proc.
When i compare them both on speed then my Eten is much faster in every way. much more responsive. opening and rendering screens.
Altough i prefer my TyTN over the M600, the build-hardware and sound is much better.
I guess it must be the ROM that isn't perfect yet ( and it isn't perfect yet for sure).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input guys. Luminus your point sounds like there may be hope for us all yet, but having said that, bydandie has switched to the TyTN ROM and I have moved to the I-mate ROM and admittedly we have both both probably experienced some improvements over the ROMs our devices shipped with but the Video playback issue remains, albeit slightly improved too (therefore indicative of being software related).
I spent several hours reading up on the SC32442A Samsung processor and I have to admit, whilst not having enough knowledge to fully understand all the technicalities, it seems that the CPU in the Hermes is one serious 'dude' which is not being used to its Full potential. Apparently its just as quick as a Xscale 520MHz CPU!
I can believe it due to the responsiveness of my device in general (with I-mate ROM), but its just not evident in the Videoplayback department.
I've also tried many differently encoded movie clips like its native MP4 and Divx etc but only negligable differences. I now believe, as posted by bydandie (I think), that its due to the ATI acceleration chip/software not doing what it is supposed and that maybe HTC should look into this as the different ROMs don't seem to make any worthwhile difference in this particular department.
For anyone who's reading this for the first time let me clarify that playback speed is acceptable to watch any well encoded movie (320x240 @ up to 768 kbps) but pausing, forwarding etc then resuming playback is where the problems occurr (for me anyhow). Benchmarking shows that the Wizard (overclocked @240MHz) easily outperforms the Hermes, but not in everything else. Though admittedly I also find the overclocked HTC Prophet @240MHz more responsive all round! Again this seems to indicate that acceleration support is missing across the border.
For the record: I no longer believe TCPMP is in any way at fault. It performs outstandingly on every other device I have ever installed it on, including Samsungs i300 which also had a 400MHz CPU and benchmarked the same videos at well over 300% compared to 120% - 180% were getting on the Hermes!
I give up for now, the problem is way beyond me but hopefully not far off from being found.

Samsung CPU
I'd be interested where you read about this CPU.
It's based on ARMv4 dating back to 2002 and as such is functionally very poor in comparison to the ARMv5 Xscale platforms. This is why it won't allow the current versions of iPlay to operate. It's also unlikely to have the xscale power and performance scaling capabilities as it pre-dated Xscale.
In practise the only thing that has affected me is iplay.
I have just upgraded my 2750 to WM5.
Contrary to what I was told when I purchased the upgrade (many months ago) it is much much faster than the tytn in every respect. It also seems more stable.
For day to day work though - I don't use the TyTN for video - ipod and Archos cover that for me - I find performance very adequate though.
Paul.

Re: Samsung CPU
pgamble said:
I'd be interested where you read about this CPU.
It's based on ARMv4 dating back to 2002 and as such is functionally very poor in comparison to the ARMv5 Xscale platforms. This is why it won't allow the current versions of iPlay to operate. It's also unlikely to have the xscale power and performance scaling capabilities as it pre-dated Xscale.
In practise the only thing that has affected me is iplay.
I have just upgraded my 2750 to WM5.
Contrary to what I was told when I purchased the upgrade (many months ago) it is much much faster than the tytn in every respect. It also seems more stable.
For day to day work though - I don't use the TyTN for video - ipod and Archos cover that for me - I find performance very adequate though.
Paul.
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Hi again pgamble. I remember you answered an earlier post of mine regarding the CPU. It seems you understand more on these CPUs than I do.
I've provided the linl below to where I read all about the 2442 CPUs (they seem to have variants of it). Hope you understand it better than me. Please let us know what you make of it. Bydandie mentioned that the Hermes uses a 32bit Bus as opposed to the 16 bit Bus used on the first Vario. Do you know if this would negatively or positively affect the speed of data? I would have thought positive, but then I don't fully understand all the technical jargon in the provided link which will probably explain how the technology is utilised.
I hope it doesn't have to share too much of the available data bus/ bandwidth (whatever it is), thus bottlenecking the CPU. I still think at this time its related to the acceleration technology of the ATI Imageon.
http://www.samsung.com/products/sem...ationProcessor/ARM9Series/SC32442/SC32442.htm

http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=61370 :wink:

Hermes is a mini-powerhouse!!
Sorry I should have elaborated in that last post which directs you to more accurate information since I started this thread. The Hermes is in fact a mini-powerhouse and even beats the Universal for playback performance under the right conditions.

It's great that the Hermes is powerfull and beats the Universal under the "right conditions"!
But under the "right conditions" DOS beats Windows, it's just a matter on how you compare... :wink:
However, TCPMP still doesn't work as it should on the Hermes. *Standing by for new ROM*

Moskus said:
It's great that the Hermes is powerfull and beats the Universal under the "right conditions"!
But under the "right conditions" DOS beats Windows, it's just a matter on how you compare... :wink:
However, TCPMP still doesn't work as it should on the Hermes. *Standing by for new ROM*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ROM ive settled on (imate) will play back no problems with rawframebuffer set for the video output. Admittedly id prefer to use the ATI acceleration but this temporary measure is still ok for me. Sound playback has improved as it does not stutter to a halt after a pause or skip. (for the record im using a 2pass Xvid encoded avi file with 128kbps MP3 audio) this is evident in both the imate and dopod roms......but not the updated HTC rom.

ATI & The Core Player v1.0
I agree with you both (last 2 posts), but from further investigations, it seems that the problem is not related to the ROM either but onlt to the ATI decoder. I've e-mailed ATI in the hope that they can enlighten or help us all. :lol: Fat chance of that I know, but in the ATI Hanheld Interface, there is a version number v2.30.......maybe that can somehow be updated directly if ATI will offer some support or through a ROM update (though it does seem like firmware) .
Anyway all said and done I'm going to keep looking until I find a way to get that bloody decoder to work permanently as it seriously improves all video formats by at least 100% in benchmarking, which means no dropped frames for High Quality encoded files.
Alternatively keep an eye out for the new TCPMP player (The Core Player v1.0) which will hopefully address all these issues within the coming weeks/months. :wink:

Yer i can imagine a ROM update may include an ATI-written updater within it which will sort out the problems. It DOES sound like something that can be fixed though so hopefully soon we will all have it working correctly. :lol:

So, AKU3.3 ROM did fix the problem with ATI, where you had screen going crazy, but there are decoding artefacts which I belive are down to TCPMP/Coreplayer to fix.

schriss said:
So, AKU3.3 ROM did fix the problem with ATI, where you had screen going crazy, but there are decoding artefacts which I belive are down to TCPMP/Coreplayer to fix.
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Click to collapse
Yer, if you look on the coreplayer forum there is a recommended encoding rate etc... but ive still watched videos no problem even using a different encoding rate.