Database Users

xda3 confirmed

I received some more detailed information about T-Mobile's next coming Pocket PC Phone Edition (called MDA III) which is indeed a HTC device called "Blue Angel" (as you know, OEMs always give their devices internal project names. The first xda/MDA was called "Wallaby", the Xda II/MDA II was called "Himalaya" and the expected and confirmed MDA III is called "Blue Angel" now).
However, the information I've received are slightly different than the stuff announced before:
Operating System: Microsoft Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition for Pocket PC Phone Edition
CPU: - Intel XScale, 400 MHz
Memory: 64 MB Flash ROM, 128 MB SDRAM
Screen: 3.5", 240 x 320 pixels Transflective TFT-LCD
Connectivity: GSM/GPRS, Bluetooth, 802.11b, IrDA and USB
Camera: Color CMOS VGA camera
Integrated QWERTY keyboard
Size: 125 x 71.6 x 18.7 mm = 4.92 x 2.82 x 0.73 in
Expansion: MMC/SDIO

I hope it will not be the truth. If MDA III / XDA III is coming with such config, I have no reason to upgrade my XDA2.
Here is what I expected for XDA III / MDA III :
1. VGA Resolution screen - Almost all high-end PPC will come with a 640 X480 screen, there is no way come with a 320x240 screen with XDA3 if they still want to sell it at US$999 sky high price.
2. Faster Processor - I think the battery life for XDA2 is reasonable, and the new generation processor should consume the same level battery as the PXA263.
I DON'T NEED A KEYBOARD. I use pda for 7 year since , I KNOW HOW TO USE A STYLUS TO INPUT WHATEVER I NEED.
Moreover, WIFI is not a MUST HAVE feature for a Pdaphone. Leave it for the SDIO interface. Give me a Dual SD Slot if you have extra space for the WIFI module.
If this machine is really the XDA3/MDA3, I believe it will like XDA1 / MDA1, and it will not success, because the config will be out-dated when it release.

Heh
Xda 2.5 - FaceLift Model?
Hopefully they'll lose the keypad for the true Xda III.
No VGA?
No PXA270?
No 530/624MHz CPU?
No WM2003SE?
No 1800/3800mAh batt?
No Widcomm BT stack?
No High-Speed SDRAM?
Sad.

These photos are appearing on forums all over the place now I too hope it isn't the real XDA III as there is nothing there to justify an upgrade in my eyes.
Ed

I shure hope this is a sick joke, i´d hate this to be the XDA III. It´s just such a dissapointment. I love the XDA II, and there is absolutely no reason to upgrade to this one. Besides, who want´s to buy another kind of memory. I already have 3 SD cards at 256Mb. Should i just toss those away!?
No, i shure hope this is not the acutall XDA III, but just a way of beeing a greedy company.

skenliv said:
Besides, who want´s to buy another kind of memory. I already have 3 SD cards at 256Mb. Should i just toss those away!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What kind of different memory?!
It's said to have SDIO slots, perhaps two of them.
You can use your SD cards as much as you want...

Integrating a thumb board into the XDA3 is a real waste of space and weight, i prefer to use the stylus on the virtual keyboard in preference to a thumb board, and if i want to use a keyboard with it i want a separate one connected by bluetooth that i can touch type on,
Dual SD slots is a must for my next device too, or at least a CF and an SD slot, but CF takes up too much space nowdays

wonder if it's that much less expensive for tmobile to push mda3's then mda2 because it dont seem all that different
so odd that there would be a market spc for the mda3 compared to mda2

XDA III
It looks as though the keyboard is detachable.
Wireless is a big deal, as SD 802.11 cards are expensive and wireless is everywhere

The keyboard does not look detachable to me, I think it looks like it is integrated..
Like one of the smaller nokia phones I think it looks like the unit is made up of two pieces the front unit and a back unit. The front unit would slide up wards against the back unit, revealing the keyboard section. which is on the bottom part of the back unit...
We need to remember, that they are probably targeting a slightly differant market with this unit; The people who are more for phones than for PDA's, the phone type of people would probably go for the keyboard cos it will be easier for them to text and SMS. MEanwhile the PDA' type people can keep using their stylus in the method they are used to.
THere are proabably lots of people who looked at the XDAII unit but didn't buy because of the lack of a keyboard....

kinda like this siemens mobil
http://www.smartpress.gr/weekly/adv/siemens.gif
with the keyboard that is

hi
more interresting to me is how to use this keyboard....
It might just be my opinion, but this seems all awful small to me, remember the whole keyboard is maybe 6cm wide.
How to you hold your XDA3 in order to typ... do you have to lay it down on the table, do you use two thumbs, or one hand typs the other holds, or... I don't know
Many questions..., someone has a answer ?
Alex

guess you could use the stylus ?

Hi,
If you want more pictures, go there.
These are CDMA CU928 pictures.
Didn't found on the web where CDU928 could be used as XDA III in 900/1800 Networks... Even on T-Mobile's website.
By the way, I personaly find it is a good idea to integrate a keyboard in next Xda III if size and weight do not increase, like suggest pictures.
Serge

Serge,
they write something about Qualcomm's MSM5500 chipset as modem, this modem is CDMA2000 which is AFAIK not compatiple to UMTS (someone might know better)
But for sure it is not dual mode, so you won't most likely don't see it in europe as here UMTS only phone aren't sold by big providers.
Alex.

I've used the PalmOne Treo 600 for almost a year and really appreciated the keypad, regardless of its tiny size. Hence, including a keypad per se isn't a bad idea at all. That said, however, the core goal, at least in my opinion, should be to increase memory/functionality AND decrease size/weight. So despite the Wi-Fi capability and keypdad, the XDA III is no alternative for me.

True enough, the addition of the keypad and the Wifi doesn"t justify the upgrade to this XDA 3 ... for new buyer it might be a good investment though

I asked the distributer in sweden (www.qtek.se) about this device as an upcoming qtek 3030. They said it won´t be sold here, and that there will be a new device with VGA screen and wifi!!

it seems a little unfair that after they just released the xda2 out comes xda3 these phones are costly and i think a bit of consideration for there present customers wouldnt go amiss.
regards kevin

it seems a little unfair that after they just released the xda2 out comes xda3 these phones are costly and i think a bit of consideration for there present customers wouldnt go amiss.
regards kevin

Successor to Athena ?

Will the new Advantage come out soon ? My friend thinks that they will release a revision early next year, but I honestly think we have about a half a year left till we see anything.

SupraSkylineSTI said:
Will the new Advantage come out soon ? My friend thinks that they will release a revision early next year, but I honestly think we have about a half a year left till we see anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if the universal is anything to go by it could be a few years and waiting !
The real name for the advantage is the X7500 a few months after it was released an even newer version called the X7501 came out for the US market, and this might be what your friend is thinking of ! however newer is not always better, the X7501 is identical in every way except it has LOST 1 of the 2 cameras from the X7500, gained an FM radio (which might be coming to the X7500 anyway as some reckon the hardware exists but has been disabled) and lastly is shiped with windows mobile 6 instead of 5 which is a moot point as you can now just download Win 6 and upgrade your X7500 anyway.

My speculation rests on any successor primarily being an upgrade having WM6.1 and a SSD hard drive of greater capacity.
I would pray for better video performance as well.
Keith

My wish lists are:
- No hardware keyboard. Althernatively, have one that slides out, like the ones in Toshiba Protege G920 or Nokia N810.
- No magnet please.
- Uses SSD and at least 32GB
- Use SDHC rather than miniSDHC. SDHC seems to be always ahead in terms of moving into higher capacity.
- WM7
- Camera that takes acceptable pictures indoor. The present one does not work unless you're outdoor.
- 5 MP main camera and a VGA front camera.
- Less weight.
- Maintains 5" screen but reduce the size of the metal frame around the screen, so overall size is reduced.
- Embedded ear piece, so that use of BT headset becomes entirely optional.
- Vibration for phone
- More rounded and thinner profile.
- Infra, so that I can make it my remote control
- FM radio tuner for TMC and musics.
- Built-in TV tuner
- 800x480 resolution - Not too sure about this one, due to concern over software compatibilty issues. Otherwise, the shape would resember a handphone better.
- Faster internet browser, like the one in Nokia N810
- 802.11n for faster connection
- USB 2.0
- Latest bluetooth.
- GPS Assist, ,so that I can get signal inside buildings and tunnels.
Come on HTC, you should be able to make this.

eaglesteve said:
My wish lists are:
- No hardware keyboard. Althernatively, have one that slides out, like the ones in Toshiba Protege G920 or Nokia N810. That would be pretty cool, the keyboard on the Toshiba G920 is really nice, but I can see this adding thickness to the device
- No magnet please. I agree
- Uses SSD and at least 32GB Can you say 'Uber Expensive?
- Use SDHC rather than miniSDHC. SDHC seems to be always ahead in terms of moving into higher capacity. Deffo. I really can't see how HTC is saving that much space by using miniSDHC
- WM7 Yay!!!
- Camera that takes acceptable pictures indoor. The present one does not work unless you're outdoor. Agree 100% .. for something that's being marketed as an 'All in one device' the camer really sucks
- 5 MP main camera and a VGA front camera.
- Less weight. If possible, but considering the extra features everyone wants etc??
- Maintains 5" screen but reduce the size of the metal frame around the screen, so overall size is reduced.
- Embedded ear piece, so that use of BT headset becomes entirely optional.
- Vibration for phone You have no idea how much I miss a vibrating alert on my phone now lol
- More rounded and thinner profile. The shape of the Athen wors really well, provided you use the stock keyboard, otherwise it feels really weird to hold, so yeah, I'd agree
- Infra, so that I can make it my remote controlThis should have been in our current devices, sure, it may be old tech, but there are still so many uses for it
- FM radio tuner for TMC and musics.Aye
- Built-in TV tuner AYE!!!
- 800x480 resolution - Not too sure about this one, due to concern over software compatibilty issues. Otherwise, the shape would resember a handphone better. Provided there weren't any issues, then yes, however I'm quite happy with VGA
- Faster internet browser, like the one in Nokia N810 Yup, although I think we'll have to rely on 3rd party for this
- 802.11n for faster connection Yup
- USB 2.0 Yup, with support for a wider range of external HDDs
- Latest bluetooth. Not a big user of BT, so I cant comment
- GPS Assist, ,so that I can get signal inside buildings and tunnels. I think GPS signal on this device sucks all over, anything to improve it would be great
Come on HTC, you should be able to make this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just my opinion

total agreement from me with regards to the slide out keyboard. i have seen a device for the pc that projects the display of a keyboard onto what ever you place the device onto, sort of like a laser projection, that would be sweet but your battery would die after one text message or email!!
The size has always been an issue for me, but we knew that it was a monster/powerhouse/umpc/ugly brick shaped phone when we purchased the athena/ameo!!!
as for the camera, dudes, if you have money to throw around at the advanced phones...... buy a digi cam. C'mon, its a phone! Having said all this, im gonna confuse you all by saying, i want the new htc sprint with vista/touchflo. hehehe

I mentioned this in some other thread, but, here it goes again
http://www.pocketables.net/2008/01/htc-advantage-r.html

The ATHENA wish list
Dear HTC,
1) Give us the capability to use our ATHENA WITHOUT speakerphone always ON, we want to put it close to the ear, you know BT is a technology always in BETA testing!
2) Turn the RADIO feature ON (we know it has the hardware capability)
3) FIX the REALVGA issues, give us the power to run programs at different DPI resolution, we know, REALVGA comes from you!
You, dear HTC, have lost the first place in Windows Mobile standard market, improve or die is the lesson, we love your devices, but... 9150 is coming

Universal successor, will HTC take notes?

Just want to see if the design engineers at HTC read these forums...
The universal is pretty much perfect for what I use it for.
- video
- music
- ebook
- Internet (including streaming youtube over UMTS, nice!)
- a bit of gaming (scummvm is great with it's bigger screen)
I don't use it as a day to day phone as it's too big to carry in most occasions. I prefer to carry a small phone and use it as a phone!
My feature wish list for the Universal successor is:
-The look of the Omni rendered picture (perhaps thinner)
-Don't make it too much big than Universal please!!!
-3.5 to 4.0 (absolute max!) inch screen (I think 3.7 is ideal)
-VGA to WVGA resolution (VGA is good enough, iphone only has half-VGA!)
-HSDPA (should be easy)
-Full size SD slot (I don't understand why they keep using micro SD, you don't save much space on a 4.0 inch PDA!)
-3.5mm stereo audio (no 2.5mm, no USB!)
-Built-in GPS
-wifi and bluetooth (should be standard anyway)
-Physical Keyboard (obviously)
-Half decent cameras will do
-USB host
- Video out (maybe, not a big deal)
- Make sure it doesn't need a different cover for extended battery please! (should see how Toshiba e800 does it)
So basically, just a bit better than Universal, not exactly hard, is it?
With that, why would I (and people who like to use their pda to the fullest potential) want an iphone, even if it has 3G radio next year???
Just imagine with a couple of SDHC cards, you have the ultimate mobile and entertainment device!
I do hope HTC read these forums from time to time...

Although I doubt it will happen, I'm still looking forward to the Universal successor.
Now, What I thing should be changed? Lots of things:
Built in GPS: prefferably SiRF Star III
256MB storage/128MB of RAM: /me drools
WiFi b/g support, bluetooth 2.0 support
2/3MP camera
MMC/SD slot: with decent transfer speeds
WM6 or 7: fully integrating the Uni's features, videocalling for example
However, there are some things that I'd like to keep from my precious Uni. Those are:
Looks: I believe the Uni's shape, colour (black) and size are perfect
Screen: Present screen size and VGA are fine imho
(in a few words I'm looking for a VGA version of Kaiser inside the Universal mold )
just my 2c

akpidis said:
Although I doubt it will happen, I'm still looking forward to the Universal successor.
Now, What I thing should be changed? Lots of things:
Built in GPS: prefferably SiRF Star III
256MB storage/128MB of RAM: /me drools
WiFi b/g support, bluetooth 2.0 support
2/3MP camera
MMC/SD slot: with decent transfer speeds
WM6 or 7: fully integrating the Uni's features, videocalling for example
However, there are some things that I'd like to keep from my precious Uni. Those are:
Looks: I believe the Uni's shape, colour (black) and size are perfect
Screen: Present screen size and VGA are fine imho
(in a few words I'm looking for a VGA version of Kaiser inside the Universal mold )
just my 2c
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OH, and yah, quad band GSM or at least a version that works in North America's region! I use the 1900 PCS band here in Canada, but I lose coverage where 850 has better signal than 1900
I love the Uni the way it is otherwise, but more RAM would definitely be a plus. And I vouch for the SD rather than Micro SD. It gets to a point where small is too small. I have no problem with the size of the Uni itself except that it's hard to find a suitable belt holster for it.
Oh, a more power friendly too would be nice. That or make the standard battery last longer.

My Universal has only SD slot.. are there some models with MicroSD?
My Wish list
- I also want the new Windows Mobile to be able to edit numbers in the call history before dialling
- 256MB RAm with 1GB storage
- support for 8GB SD Cards SIO
- inbuilt FM Radio
- 3MP Camera (at least)
- more buttons in front (where the screen is) maybe 4
- longer battery life

I do get relative good battery life out of my Universal in comparison to other gadgets like ipods, MP3 and MP4 players. No complaint at all.
With standard battery:
Music: 14-16 hours (with screen off)
Video: 4-5 hours
Reading ebooks: 9-10 hours
I have a second standard battery and that's quite enough for a long train of flight journey.
I hope HTC doesn't cripple the "Universal successor" with just a micro SD slot. I need full size SD slot! I can imagine 16GB SD will be at a "reasonable" price in a year's time. I can then a whole series of Heroes, 24, Lost, etc. with me. ;-)

Tbaba said:
My Universal has only SD slot.. are there some models with MicroSD?
- 256MB RAm with 1GB storage
- support for 8GB SD Cards SIO
- inbuilt FM Radio
- 3MP Camera (at least)
- more buttons in front (where the screen is) maybe 4
- longer battery life
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Erm, what do you mean the Universal has "only" SD slot?! A full sized SD slot like the Uni has now is far better than those tiny MicroSD on other phones!
- We don't need 256MB RAM, 128MB should be plenty. Because any increase in RAM size uses more battery power, and you are very unlikely to notice the difference between 128MB and 256MB on any Windows Mobile device.
- The Uni already supports 8GB SDIO cards! In fact it also supports 16GB SDIO cards, you can get these right now from eBay!
- An FM radio would just be a waste of space IMO, using valuable battery life and circuitry which could be used for much better things. You can have FM radio on your Uni already over the internet with UMTS!
- I agree about camera. We need 3MP+, with a very powerful flash led, something like the Luxeon Rebel. It should also be able to capture smooth video in at least 640x480 at 25fps+ with decent quality sound.
- Why more buttons? Already the Uni has more buttons than most other phones! I think it has enough now
- With ALL mobile phones, you can only get really longer battery life by getting an extended battery. You can get these for the Uni now, they are very cheap, but of course they are much larger. It is always a trade-off between battery size and battery life - you cannot have both!
- And Uni needs built in GPS (SurfStar chipset), and HSDPA (much less important, 3G is already mostly fast enough). Then it is a perfect device

i doubt they read what is written in forums
i think Athena is the product they wanted to tak
over for universal
the reason why i doubt they read it and even if they did
then this is an enthusiast forum and PM's who deside what products
are developed not engineers have to think about how big a market
there is and enthusiast market is not that big

sl9 said:
Erm, what do you mean the Universal has "only" SD slot?! A full sized SD slot like the Uni has now is far better than those tiny MicroSD on other phones!
- We don't need 256MB RAM, 128MB should be plenty. Because any increase in RAM size uses more battery power, and you are very unlikely to notice the difference between 128MB and 256MB on any Windows Mobile device.
- The Uni already supports 8GB SDIO cards! In fact it also supports 16GB SDIO cards, you can get these right now from eBay!
- An FM radio would just be a waste of space IMO, using valuable battery life and circuitry which could be used for much better things. You can have FM radio on your Uni already over the internet with UMTS!
- I agree about camera. We need 3MP+, with a very powerful flash led, something like the Luxeon Rebel. It should also be able to capture smooth video in at least 640x480 at 25fps+ with decent quality sound.
- Why more buttons? Already the Uni has more buttons than most other phones! I think it has enough now
- With ALL mobile phones, you can only get really longer battery life by getting an extended battery. You can get these for the Uni now, they are very cheap, but of course they are much larger. It is always a trade-off between battery size and battery life - you cannot have both!
- And Uni needs built in GPS (SurfStar chipset), and HSDPA (much less important, 3G is already mostly fast enough). Then it is a perfect device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was refering to the other post where da guy said his universal had microSD
So the 16gb supported cards dont have to be partitioned to 4GB parts? The new Universal shouldnt support the cards as 1 partition.
About the FM radio, I beg to differ. In MANY places where there's no UMTS or its very expensive, havng an inbuild radio would be good. And I know a whole bunch of other devices with radios that dont affect battery life that much.
They should also include better Power amangement in the universal to improve life amidst all these addtitions
I personally would prefer more buttons so manipulating the device without opening the keyboard could be possible... playing games... accessing menues... running programs etc. Basically you should be able to leave you Universal in portrait mode forever...
I definitely agree wit the inbuilt GPS
Ciao!

if one really want a fm radio you can buy headsets to use for the pda
which also have fm radio build in

Some companies build personal video/media players. Some other companies build mobile Internet surfing devices. The Universal can do both very well with decent battery life. It's also a PDA and a phone!
After 2 years, I still use my Universal heavily. I always feel good about just having to carry one device for all the entertainment I need. When I am bored with what I've got on my SD cards, I can watch the full youtube (not just the subset catered specifically for mobiles) over 3G! Also, you can't beat the keyboard for online chat and text messaging.
Is there not a market for something like the HTC Omni? A pocketable mobile Internet device with rich multimedia functions.
Is there really a market for the 5 inch Athena. Who are the target consumers?

"Who are the target consumers?"
Andre the Giant

skng said:
Is there not a market for something like the HTC Omni? A pocketable mobile Internet device with rich multimedia functions.
Is there really a market for the 5 inch Athena. Who are the target consumers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Prolly the same as with Nokia's Internet Tablets.
(BTW, the Athena sales are pretty lowish - MUCH lower than any current HTC models. No wonder, I'd say - they contain, in addition to a very bad thumbboard, already outdated hardware. For example, the old, ppower-hungry and not multimedia-friendly PXA-270 instead of the PXA-3XX)

Menneisyys said:
Prolly the same as with Nokia's Internet Tablets.
(BTW, the Athena sales are pretty lowish - MUCH lower than any current HTC models. No wonder, I'd say - they contain, in addition to a very bad thumbboard, already outdated hardware. For example, the old, ppower-hungry and not multimedia-friendly PXA-270 instead of the PXA-3XX)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you're right. They should have equipped the athena with much reliable flash drive of 8GB too for that price. Also, HTC, please do away with those magnets(if plan for Athena II)! They formatted my friend Laptop's HDD too(the way it did for Midget_1990)
freaking magents. Just due to the magnets, microphone and HDD, I did not get the athena, otherwise, its such a nice device. They could have lowered the screen size to 4.0' and put-in a microphone too. May be then, most of the universal owners would have jumped to it
Rudegar said:
"Who are the target consumers?"
Andre the Giant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nah.. its Great Khali now. Andre is dead guy now

HTC killer?

From Ubermobile:
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/01/viliv_umpc_is_extremely_portable.html
Similar slider/keyboard format as Shift, but:
- Menlo processor (good for battery life, bad for speed)
- Looks like Windows XP option (my preference)
- Assuming same screen as its brother, it will have 7" 1024 x 600, 16million vs 256k colors
- Same HDD options as Shift
- Only 512mb memory (expandable?) vs 1gb not expandable
- WAN optional only with external modem (actually my prefernce, since I'll use my HSPDA phone - HTC Trinity - as a tethered modem rather than pay for 2x data plans)
- GPS (sirfStar III, not that POS Qualcomm i have in my Trinity that is probably in the Shift)
- Estimated MSRP of $700-$800 vs. $1,600 for Shift
So, no Snapvue, no phone guts, and with an estimated ship date of 3Q2008, it'll probably beat the Shift to the shelves!!! <grin>
Man, waiting until 3Q (assuming they really do this and do it on time) would be painful, but if it comes in with the specs they list, it could be the winner for me.
Mike

seems quite bad .. i would say 40% of interest of the shift is in that one .. but maybe it's nice for you.
the Shift is not the perfect devise for everyone ... so maybe this device is for you

landshark said:
- Menlo processor (good for battery life, bad for speed)
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Menlo processor 1,86 GHz - A110 800 MHz
Am I missing something ?

Hey MM -
My understanding is although the Menlo is running at a higher clock speed, it is a different architecture so a higher clock speed doesn't really translate into faster performance. I did some internet searching (sorry, didn't save the links) which suggest that the Menlo referenced here will be about the same as the Stealy A110 which is the 800mhz version included in the Shift.
Of course, it should have much lower power consumption, so maybe we could get better than 2hrs out of the battery.

why not oQo e2? it's good and have most of shift ability

landshark said:
Hey MM -
My understanding is although the Menlo is running at a higher clock speed, it is a different architecture so a higher clock speed doesn't really translate into faster performance. I did some internet searching (sorry, didn't save the links) which suggest that the Menlo referenced here will be about the same as the Stealy A110 which is the 800mhz version included in the Shift.
Of course, it should have much lower power consumption, so maybe we could get better than 2hrs out of the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very interesting!!!
Thanks Mike

koala996 said:
seems quite bad .. i would say 40% of interest of the shift is in that one .. but maybe it's nice for you.
the Shift is not the perfect devise for everyone ... so maybe this device is for you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really understand what market the Shift is really 'for'. It's a very strange device which doesn't seem to offer much in the way of practicality. It's low-res screen and poor battery make it an ineffective laptop replacement - my old Sony Vaio TX had FOUR TIMES the battery life. The size is not as small as other devices and it would appear it only has two features not seen on other UMPCs: phone functionality (which is surely just a further battery drain) and windows mobile device functionality. Wouldn't it be more practical though to have a proper phone with Windows Mobile built in and tether it via bluetooth or WMWifirouter when the internet is needed?
I'm looking for UMPC but it seems the Shift has too many negatives and there appear to be better things on the market, particularly given that I'm not really bothered about making phone calls from one.
Battery life, screen resolution and keyboard quality are for me the critical elements of a UMPC.
(oh and size)
If anyone can explain why they would rather have a UMPC with phone and windows mobile built in than a UMPC WITH a normal, practical windows mobile device I would be interested to hear. Seems the convergence with the Shift is a bit over-the-top and might be more impractical than practical.

leoni1980 said:
I don't really understand what market the Shift is really 'for'. It's a very strange device which doesn't seem to offer much in the way of practicality. It's low-res screen and poor battery make it an ineffective laptop replacement - my old Sony Vaio TX had FOUR TIMES the battery life. The size is not as small as other devices and it would appear it only has two features not seen on other UMPCs: phone functionality (which is surely just a further battery drain) and windows mobile device functionality. Wouldn't it be more practical though to have a proper phone with Windows Mobile built in and tether it via bluetooth or WMWifirouter when the internet is needed?
I'm looking for UMPC but it seems the Shift has too many negatives and there appear to be better things on the market, particularly given that I'm not really bothered about making phone calls from one.
Battery life, screen resolution and keyboard quality are for me the critical elements of a UMPC.
(oh and size)
If anyone can explain why they would rather have a UMPC with phone and windows mobile built in than a UMPC WITH a normal, practical windows mobile device I would be interested to hear. Seems the convergence with the Shift is a bit over-the-top and might be more impractical than practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally like the concept of HTC Shift, yes i think you are correct to treat Shift as an UMPC, however what make Shift so special is because the duo mode that it offers and the form factor. It's fair to say there are no other device which has the same concept as Shift, at least not in the market yet.
It all depends on people, some people prefer to only carry on device which does everything, some prefer to carry separates. For those people who prefer to carry it all on one, Shift is really quite a nice option. It's important to notice the difference between laptop and UMPC, they serve different purposes. If anyone is new to UMPC, i suggest you visit a well known website call UMPC Portal, they have lots of information here. And it's interesting to know, HTC Shift occur to be the most viewed device there in rank 1, and it has stay in that position for for a long time.

HD2 Issues

i think the HD2 is an amazing piece of hardware and its clearly better than any other competing product in the coming few months. i do however hate a few things about it:
1-the lack of front camera for 3G video calls. while i may not care a lot about video calls i imagine that many will be missing it.
2-i see no point of releasing a separate delayed hardware revision for US market. especially when you consider that the rest of the world version lacks the front camera just like every other US phone. the Acer F1(another 1 GHZ 3G phone) has been available for a while and it supports US 3G bands on the same hardware and it even has the front camera.
3- considering that its the best multimedia phone made by HTC, its lacking the TV-out and the FM-Radio transmitter and better camera(all of which are supported by the N97)
4- the included 512MB ROM is a joke. i know that it can be expanded with SD card. but extra flash on the device is always useful. the 1.5 year old Omnia had 8/16/24BG+microSD why cant this have it. adding 8 or 16 GB flash costs HTC almost nothing to add
5-lack of stylus: HTC patented the capacitive stylus but they didnt use it. i know the the screen is big enough to be very finger friendly. but its still windows mobile and some applications work need stylus (for example Pocket artist).
6- lack of hardware buttons (especially camera). i wish the added 2 or 3 buttons on the empty sides. WM will always make use of the hardware buttons
7-despite the very high specs, its still less than the minimum Windows mobile7 specs (which requires Tegra level graphics performance acceleration and bigger than integrated storage ) which means that it will not be
upgradeable to wm7.
8-i dont understand the 320+128MB. the dedicated 128MB for the low performing graphics chip seems pointless to me. if they are going to put all this memory there why didnt they allocate it to program memory.
9- i really love how HTC managed to make the device reasonably small considering the huge 4.3" screen. i still think that its physically too big for many people. the HD was not very pocket friendly and this one is even bigger. i wish the screen was 4.0" or even 3.8". considering their recent improved and more efficient designs, im sure HTC would have been able to even make it friendly for one hand use with a smaller screen.
10- im not too big on the new standard micro-USB connector. they should have at lest included the hard to find mini-USB to micro-USB adapter with it. everybody already has several mini-USB cables/chargers but ive never actually seen a micro USB yet.
11- they increased up the specs (and power usage i would assume) significantly from the first HD but they reduced the battery size from 1350 to 1250mah!!!. luckily the early reports are suggesting "acceptable" battery life

Only thing missing for me on the device is a decent camera. I don't mean HTC standard... I mean the best of Nokia, Samsung & Sony Ericsson. The original HD took terrible pictures and videos. I don't think there is much improvement in this area from previews and videos.
TV-Out would of been great but sadly missing.
I don't care about front camera because I hardly ever use video call.
It's probably more of a business centric device but with such a large screen it could have so easily been the ultimate work and pleasure phone.
I'm leaning towards the Nokia N900 (Linux) but still undecided.

Just some thoughts for your annoyances! (I currently own an Omnia too)
THE GRIZZ said:
1-the lack of front camera for 3G video calls. while i may not care a lot about video calls i imagine that many will be missing it.
3G has been around for a while with a front video camera, but I can truly say that I don't know a single person that actually uses it. It's a gimmick IMO.
2-i see no point of releasing a separate delayed hardware revision for US market. especially when you consider that the rest of the world version lacks the front camera just like every other US phone. the Acer F1(another 1 GHZ 3G phone) has been available for a while and it supports US 3G bands on the same hardware and it even has the front camera.
I don't see the point either - bit silly if you ask me.
3- considering that its the best multimedia phone made by HTC, its lacking the TV-out and the FM-Radio transmitter and better camera(all of which are supported by the N97)
FM what? It still bedazzles me that people listen to FM radio these days. Surely most people have unlimited internet now and like I just use internet radio. More stations! As for the TV-out, again, I don't see the point really. Personally I use my netbook/laptop/pc for plugging into a tv since they can play HD. I supposed it would be nice if you want to show off photos to friends but then we all have facebook these days anyway For me, not a sore exclusion.
4- the included 512MB ROM is a joke. i know that it can be expanded with SD card. but extra flash on the device is always useful. the 1.5 year old Omnia had 8/16/24BG+microSD why cant this have it. adding 8 or 16 GB flash costs HTC almost nothing to add
I love the additional 8GB of the Omnia, but I guess they have to keep costs down somewhere. I have a 16GB micro SD, but when are 24/32 going to be available? Anyone know?
5-lack of stylus: HTC patented the capacitive stylus but they didnt use it. i know the the screen is big enough to be very finger friendly. but its still windows mobile and some applications work need stylus (for example Pocket artist).
I think you can still use a stylus but you have to set it up to do so (I saw it in another post on here).
6- lack of hardware buttons (especially camera). i wish the added 2 or 3 buttons on the empty sides. WM will always make use of the hardware buttons
There is no excuse for extra buttons down the side, although it makes it a bit more sleek I guess. But it's not like it doesn't take photos, it's just a useablitly thing.
7-despite the very high specs, its still less than the minimum Windows mobile7 specs (which requires Tegra level graphics performance acceleration) which means that it will not be
upgradeable to wm7.
I'm not sure that's right is it? In that original Leo thread in the main board, wasn't it confirmed that it will be upgradable? I think it's remains a bit of an unknown at the moment. That said, will wm7 be complete in 12 months? Given M$'s history of keeping to their planned dates, I doubt it. I think cookers will make it happen anyway and if not, in 12 months it will be upgrade time. Did someone say HD3?!
8-i dont understand the 320+128MB. the dedicated 128MB for the low performing graphics chip seems pointless to me. if they are going to put all this memory there why didnt they allocate it to program memory.
This one I have no idea about. Maybe they have something clever up their sleeves?
9- i really love how HTC managed to make the device reasonably small considering the huge 4.3" screen. i still think that its physically too big for many people. the HD was not very pocket friendly and this one is even bigger. i wish the screen was 4.0" or even 3.8". considering their recent improved and more efficient designs, im sure HTC would have been able to even make it friendly for one hand use with a smaller screen.
Well lets look at the iPhone. It's a huge seller. The HD2 is only a couple of mm's wider and taller so I don't see anyone is going to see it as an issue when they put it in their hands.
10- im not too big on the micro-USB connector. they should have at lest included the hard to find mini-USB adapter with it. everybody already has several mini-USB cables/chargers but ive never actually seen a micro USB yet.
I totally disagree here. It's the new universal format. You won't have seen many yet because devices are JUST beginning to emerge with it (ie Omnia 2). Already it's working because Samsung usually have their own proprietary connector so to see them go universal is a fantastic step in the right direction. It would be blind of HTC not to follow. So yes, bin those old Mini-USB
11- they increased up the specs (and power usage i would assume) significantly from the first HD but they reduced the battery size from 1350 to 1250mah!!!. luckily the early reports are suggesting "acceptable" battery life
I really hope it can last at least one full day of decent usage without the requirement of a charge. Surely they wouldn't make this wonderful device then shoot themselves in the foot??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyway some good points there!

7-despite the very high specs, its still less than the minimum Windows mobile7 specs (which requires Tegra level graphics performance acceleration) which means that it will not be
upgradeable to wm7
I'm not sure that's right is it? In that original Leo thread in the main board, wasn't it confirmed that it will be upgradable? I think it's remains a bit of an unknown at the moment. That said, will wm7 be complete in 12 months? Given M$'s history of keeping to their planned dates, I doubt it. I think cookers will make it happen anyway and if not, in 12 months it will be upgrade time. Did someone say HD3?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is very likely WM7 will be out by mid to late next year. WM8 is already being discussed as I understand it and WM6 and 6.5 have been universally panned (and quite rightly).
So if you purchase the HD2 assuming it will be out of date in less than 10 months then all well but I suspect many will not be happy (including me). I don't mind spending extra bucks now to avoid doubling my investment by having to purchase two devices in the space of 10 months!
Do you have the link to the original "in the original Leo thread in the main board, wasn't it confirmed that it will be upgradable? "

add this to the list:
1. lack of full-fledged graphics drivers (3D)
2. lack of d-pad; or trackball like blackberrys

1) Front Camera - most people don't use them so not a big deal
2) Buy the Acer if you like it (have fun)
3) it has got an FM Radio onboard I believe
4) Memory could be better but its got an SD card so just by a 16gb card.
5) The point is you don't need a stylus - am I missing something. If you wannt a Stylus get an Omnia 2
6) The camera button could have been useful - but nobody knows if one of the front buttons cannot be used. Shall we wait till its been reviewed fully before we slag it off.
7) Its been clearly stated that the specs do not say "Tegra" only. Thats just not true. Makes me laugh that a phone with great 3d potential and dedicated memory like the HD2 is being slagged off for no reason.
8) The screen size is the best part of the phone - it can be used to watch video, surf the net, etc. So it has to be big to fit the screen - not an issue.
9) Micro-USB!! - You mean the defacto standard now.
10) Nobody knows about battery life yet so lets hold fire.
Why are you interested in the phone if non of its main selling points you like?

because despite its "limitations" its still a lot better than the rest now.
take a chill pill dude and try to tone-down the fanboiasm. our nitpicking will make it very easy for HTC to make the HD3 a better device. also by highlighting them so early in its life, it will make easy easy for its users to deal with its potential issues

Teneka_Khan said:
1) Front Camera - most people don't use them so not a big deal
2) Buy the Acer if you like it (have fun)
3) it has got an FM Radio onboard I believe
4) Memory could be better but its got an SD card so just by a 16gb card.
5) The point is you don't need a stylus - am I missing something. If you wannt a Stylus get an Omnia 2
6) The camera button could have been useful - but nobody knows if one of the front buttons cannot be used. Shall we wait till its been reviewed fully before we slag it off.
7) Its been clearly stated that the specs do not say "Tegra" only. Thats just not true. Makes me laugh that a phone with great 3d potential and dedicated memory like the HD2 is being slagged off for no reason.
8) The screen size is the best part of the phone - it can be used to watch video, surf the net, etc. So it has to be big to fit the screen - not an issue.
9) Micro-USB!! - You mean the defacto standard now.
10) Nobody knows about battery life yet so lets hold fire.
Why are you interested in the phone if non of its main selling points you like?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haved discovered that it does support WM7http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=7528 states
(QCOM 8k, Nvidia “Tegra” AP15/16* and TI 3430 all meet spec)
Qualcomm 8k = Snapdragon's QSD8xxx-series chips = Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8250 (which is in the Leo).. so the processor should meet WM7 chassis 1 requirement.
To answer the FM radio question - the answer is YES
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hd2-2957.php
I agree with the comments above. There is no such thing as a perfect device but you have got to congratulate HTC on the HD2 being one of the closest to it.

alecs said:
I haved discovered that it does support WM7http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=7528 states
(QCOM 8k, Nvidia “Tegra” AP15/16* and TI 3430 all meet spec)
Qualcomm 8k = Snapdragon's QSD8xxx-series chips = Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8250 (which is in the Leo).. so the processor should meet WM7 chassis 1 requirement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The processor does, but the Chassis 1 spec also specifies at least 1GB of flash (and at least 512mb fast flash).
The HD2 only comes with 512mb internal memory.

Sc4Freak said:
The processor does, but the Chassis 1 spec also specifies at least 1GB of flash (and at least 512mb fast flash).
The HD2 only comes with 512mb internal memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By 1GB of flash I believe that means available storage i.e. an SD card
Memory: 256MB+ DRAM, 1G+ Flash (at least 512MB fast flash – 5MB/s unbuffered read @4K block size)
I am not sure what fast flash means but these are minumum specs and doesn't mean the device can't run WM7, it may just lag in certain spots though somehow I doubt this thing will lag even on WM7

Is the specified 65k for the screen a hardware or software limitation? I know Windows Mobile 6.5 only supports 65k effective colors, but when WM 7 launches would the device be able to display more colors?

Toss3 said:
Is the specified 65k for the screen a hardware or software limitation? I know Windows Mobile 6.5 only supports 65k effective colors, but when WM 7 launches would the device be able to display more colors?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure it does . they dont make "65K color display" !

Most mobile phone LCD screens are 262K colours (18-bit). (This includes many of the displays used on phones that are advertised as supporting 24-bit colour.)

manuelcalavera said:
sure it does . they dont make "65K color display" !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But does anyone know the actual maximum bit-depth of the display?

The GRIZZ said:
3- considering that its the best multimedia phone made by HTC, its lacking the TV-out and the FM-Radio transmitter and better camera(all of which are supported by the N97)
FM what? It still bedazzles me that people listen to FM radio these days. Surely most people have unlimited internet now and like I just use internet radio. More stations! As for the TV-out, again, I don't see the point really. Personally I use my netbook/laptop/pc for plugging into a tv since they can play HD. I supposed it would be nice if you want to show off photos to friends but then we all have facebook these days anyway For me, not a sore exclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude theres a difference between FM Receiver and FM Transmitter. A FM Transmitter is important for those who own a car. The FM Transmitter can be used to transmit Music at a certain frequency which can be tuned to in the car using the Cars FM Radio!
The HD2 already has a FM Receiver. It might also support FM Transmission capabilities but that depends on which chip its using.
Video Out is certainly a welcome addon. Showing off Photos on a LCD is way better than telling them to login to Facebook! I for one will surely miss the TV Out.
Inspite of that, I consider these two features to be of very less importance when compared to the other feature set. This is the THE KILLER phone everyone was waiting for!

Prefer Touch HD over HD2
I agree with Grizzly on almost every point he's been making so far. Before I catch the flames too I shall start with a story...
My HP iPAQ was stolen from a payphone booth within one minute where I forgot it at an airport a year ago. This was my first real PDA and I was extraordinarily disappointed. I had racked up a lot of apps on it and and had even made the home screen sexy and easy to use with a few mods. Going from interfacing my custom cycles with the PCR machine (lab work) to playing old favourites like SimCity 2000 in lectures was great!
The next thing I obviously wanted was a PDA PHONE, so I didn't have to use a payphone booth again... so I got the Touch HD when it just came out in Oz from Telstra (who still sell it for $1500 - 215% markup). And it was absolutely perfect. Did everything, well supported by the community, and using it as a phone and an organizer that synced with outlook it worked a charm. Then last month getting a taxi back from the pub, I was left at a busway because the taxi driver who was fresh from India could not find my home as it wasn't on the GPS. Calling another taxi I got mugged for it while I was using it, snatched it from my hand. So now I was faced with having to get a new phone.
I have bought a Touch HD again. You see, the HD2 as fantastic as it is, is half way between being a traditional WM phone and an Android phone. Without the use of a stylus, how can you hand write down meeting notes? How can I use all my legacy games and applications? What's the point of having something a little zippier when the new manilla (which is a bit too busy) is going to be hacked onto the Touch HD anyway and it doesn't have the Tegra for true gaming pwnage or audiophile quality audio or a true camera replacement camera? Also the lack of 3G camera ticks me off too. I can't video call my parents in NZ which although is horrendously expensive, I enjoy doing on birthdays and so on - on special occasions we're often away from our computers.
What I am going to do is stick with my tried and tested HD and see if the HD2 has any advantage over the Dragon before I upgrade. Or even other non-HTC devices (god forbid) should they provide Audio/Graphics advantages. Because really the point of this thing is to replace the need to carry around other devices. Otherwise just get something that is only a phone, right?

I just found this vid, shows the games on it and well there is only 1 teeter! How could they cut solitaire and bubble breaker! What am i gonna waste time with now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntZQ0iXzyvc&feature=player_embedded
Its @ about 2:45

THE GRIZZ said:
our nitpicking will make it very easy for HTC to make the HD3 a better device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very much so. HTC an enormous international company dedicated to producing a whole range of phones and mobile devices needs listen to random forum posters who can't even get their facts straight.
I'd like to take the opportunity to thank you for helping make the HD3 into the perfect device, derailing HTC's initial plans of improving the phone by removing the screen entirely and replacing it with a bar of soap. Your factual inaccuracies are making the mobile world a better place.

Since there is no dedicated off/on hardware ringer switch, is there a way to silence the phone while it is locked?

the volume rocker is normally used for something like that
mr_Ray said:
Very much so. HTC an enormous international company dedicated to producing a whole range of phones and mobile devices needs listen to random forum posters who can't even get their facts straight.
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Please spare us your fan-boyish drivel. What I mentioned in the OP are all valid concerns