Related
Here's mine
Model: MDA Pro
ROM/Radio/ExtRom: 1.12.42WWE | 1.00.02 | 1.12.126WWE
Design Flaws
No external display. Many cheapie prepay phones have this, why didn't the universal get one?
Usability Issues
When closed and Off, phone does not actually ring until 3rd ring. Leaving just 3 rings to answer it. Most calls hence go to voicemail due to not enough time left to answer.
When closed, and someone rings, the external start/end call buttons dont light up so I cant see which one is green(answer call) and which one is red(end call). 50% of the time I press the wrong one sending the caller to voicemail!
No simple, built in way to close rather than 'minimise' applications
Built in contacts app and calendar still unusable. MS: please just give up and buy Web IS !!
Software Bugs
Sometimes 2 of the wifi icons dissapear from the 'connections' tab under settings requiring a soft reset.
Wifi often fails to connect, needs switching off and then back on again, then it sees AP.
Loses the mobile network signal occasionally, for no reason (i.e even in 4 bar signal areas)
I'll add more as I remember them. But HTC/MS are getting better, the hardware and initial ROMs of the MDA Pro are worlds ahead of those on my XDA IIs (which was totally unusable initially).
Having a low battery means that device switches on every 5 mins to tell you about the low battery thus causing lower battery. Tell me once and then goto sleep! Or tell me once for 10%, once for 5% etc
If software causes the unit to switch on (in order to issue a notification) the same software should switch it off again after, i.e dont wait for the default 'not being used' timeout.
Nigel
Grrrrr
Ok .. I have an M5000 on orange, I have owned it for almost a week. My Rom/Radio gubbins are whatever Orange lock it at. My biggest complaints are:
1) Service Plans - There doesn’t seem to be a network in the UK that offers a service plan (more data, less voice) suited for the device. A trick was missed here I think!
2) My manual talks of GPRS counters and graphs.. My phone does not have any such features. All the more relevant given my 1st point and that the price per MB is horrendous on most networks.
3) Tolerance - My unit needs a reset at least twice a day. Sometimes because it can’t find GPRS coverage, sometimes coz it’s just slow. Back in the day when i purchased my 1st IPAQ I had to reset that a few times a day. I have been off in UIQ land for the past few years and I am surprised that this far into product evolution you die hard windows mobile/PPC fans have been putting up with the same crap for years. You are perfect customers and a tolerant bunch ;-).
4) Incoming call delay – I read that this is fixed in later roms. I tried to install a JASJAR rom and failed. My phone is locked. Blastit !
5) Windows Mobile Media Player 10 – a pointless piece of software, how do I delete it
6) Speed – In between reboots my unit is inconsistently slow. I have tried all of the points suggested in this forum aside from the rom updates (I cant do that).
7) Email – The email client is dire. I use IMAPS and SSL SMTP. Everything is find on mail accounts with low numbers of messages in ( < 100 ). The wheels fall off very quickly if you ask the client to download mail from a mbox with a few thousand messages in and lots of folders. So far I have lots a mail account twice and left it saying “updating folders” for 3 hours while connected via wifi.
8) Email Again – Like I said .. I use IMAPS and SSL SMTP. I use self signed certs. The 1st time I created my mail accounts and connected the unit asked me if I wanted to proceed with the self signed cert shenanigans. After that I was not asked. When I look for the certs in the certificates app they are not there. Where are they?
>1) Service Plans - There doesn’t seem to be a network in the UK that offers a service plan (more data, less voice) suited for the device. A trick was missed here I think!
Agreed, t-mobile with web-n-walk are the closest, but poor 3G coverage and no possibility to upgrade bundled data from 40MB (other than £1/MB Pay-as-you-go) + unused data not carried over to next month are the main issues.
>2) My manual talks of GPRS counters and graphs.. My phone does not have any such features. All the more relevant given my 1st point and that the price per MB is horrendous on most networks.
You should have found an application called 'spb GPRS Monitor' on the CD?? install this after having got the machine connected via activesync and you'll have the missing part of the puzzle. This is somet else that should be included within the OS -- MS please buy spb !
>4) Incoming call delay – I read that this is fixed in later roms. I tried to install a JASJAR rom and failed. My phone is locked. Blastit !
Indeed, phone should have never gotten to market with this major bug.
>7) Email – The email client is dire. I use IMAPS and SSL SMTP. Everything is find on mail accounts with low numbers of messages in ( < 100 ). The wheels fall off very quickly if you ask the client to download mail from a mbox with a few thousand messages in and lots of folders. So far I have lots a mail account twice and left it saying “updating folders” for 3 hours while connected via wifi.
Webis mail is an improvement, but still not great. My main issue with imap is the inability to set a specific imap root folder. My mail is served from my linux box at home, and there is stuff other than mail in my user directory - I dont want it finding all this stuff (at all!) Yeah, I know you can tell it to sync only specific folders, but initially it tries to sync the lot. I gave up with imap and use pop3 now. Perhaps push email availability will fix this.
Nigel
@veletron
O2 has a tariff called Data 36 for around £16.50 per month for 36MB and voice calls are on a pay as you go basis (max 25p per minute).
I agree with most item you guys mentioned especially about the phone's ringing late than the actual incoming call. If I carry JJ, on that particular day I would miss most of my calls due to that.
Here is the bug I consider annoying and hopefully they get fixed soon:
1. The Caller ID sent to the BT headset (still number instead of contact name). Have not heard anything yet till now. Dunno until when they're going to fix this.
2. When used in PDA/tablet mode, there is no hardware button for both of the softkeys that are being introduced in WM5. Pretty annoying. Other hardware buttons on the side are mostly dedicated buttons. I have to sacrifice the record button and assign it to click the OK.
3. If you have not found this one out yet. please try it with your JJ/Universal. With a SD card inside the slot, use one finger, pull it out by moving the edge slowly (without pushing it in to release it). The SD card will come out!
I was pretty :`( with this, but when the SD card inside the slot, even I shake the JJ it will not come out. At least we have to be extra careful with this.
jah said:
@veletron
O2 has a tariff called Data 36 for around £16.50 per month for 36MB and voice calls are on a pay as you go basis (max 25p per minute).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly... 36Mb is pretty poor, A few hours of streaming monkey radio, some GRIB files, email and web pages etc.. and I am stuffed....
I have had to jump through hoops just to get something half decent. I ended up with a 400MB a month add on but only after I signed up on a business tariff as a sole trader.
The guys at expansys were selling the JJ with an orange all you can eat (1GB per month) data card sim in it. While he told me voice calls would work he could not confirm that that would always be the case, when I spoke with orange they told me it would never work.
For me the most annoying thing is that the Jasjar in about 20% of the cases freezes upon arrival of a new SMS. You know this makes the thing so very unreliable. You never know when the unit has froozen and find out only when you need to use the unit again. Then you start wondering that don't know how many people tried to contact you while the Jasjar was lying frozen, unnoticed.
Kind Regards
I have no complaints at all, i have it exactly as i want it, now Lakeridge have sorted the screen switch time to be instant on wisbar i am happy, I have the following installed
Wisbar Advance 2 (newest release)
Pocket Informant (newest WM5 Release)
Pocket Breeze
Dinarsoft HandyMenu & Launcher & Switcher
Expea2 Theme
Blank Black Wallpaper
The Show and Hide Bottom Bar App (Assigned to a custom Wisbar Icon)
PSShutxp
FlexWallet 2006
CodeWallet Pro 5
Resco Keyboard Pro 4.34
Resco Explorer 2005 v5.20
I have 27.74MB Storage & 17.77MB Program Memory Free
It has taken 5 Hard resets, and much hair pulling and waiting for new releases, but my JasJar is now stable as hell!
Now if only someone could figure out how to display animated gifs as caller ID's i would be as happy as a P.I.S!!!! at last
Richard
jah said:
@veletron
O2 has a tariff called Data 36 for around £16.50 per month for 36MB and voice calls are on a pay as you go basis (max 25p per minute).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aye, I am aware of this. I was gonna go with o2 on data 200 originally, but they buggered up my order, charged me for the device but never sent it, performed a total of 15 credit checks, screwed my credit history, and then started sending me final demands for data200 even though the contract had already been cancelled. Took 4 weeks to get credit record straightened out, and £139.99 for xda refunded, and a further 2 weeks to get them to realise that I had returned the sim within the usual 14 days.
Ruddy Nightmare, after that I dont consider any O2 products to be worth a mention!! I am a long time contract customer, and they were not even interested in keeping the business by way of money off sweetners!
Besides.... 40MB+200 anynet mins still costs much much more on O2 than on t-mobile ;-)
Nigel
My Universal is losing email accounts. I think memory is not safe in WM5!
See
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=202617&highlight=mail+accounts#202617
Have seen much of that discussed above on my new T-Mobile MDA Pro, however in addition to the overly long call delay, with extremely heavy use over the past month I have observed the following two rather disconcerting "critical" bugs:
- occasionally, the GSM system loses the network despite the network being present and displays a "no service" exclaimation mark next to the service twig. No problem here, except that it does not recover from this state even if the network comes back, or if the location (ie. cell) is changed. For example, this happened in central London today, and after 4 hours of monitoring, it was still lost to the world...
- very occasionally, I've seen my little green service light flashing happily with the clamshell closed, appearing to indicate all was well. However, upon powering up the MDA Pro, I've discovered it had crashed, requiring a reset.
This is serious, because in both cases, my MDA Pro had irrecoverably gone out of network service for a considerable time, during which time any incoming calls had been lost.
In short, I cannot depend upon this device for voice, although I'm happy to live with these issues for data only. So it's a mini laptop... and I still have to get/carry another phone and SIM.
Bosseye
Have seen much of that discussed above on my new T-Mobile MDA Pro, however in addition to the overly long call delay, with extremely heavy use over the past month I have observed the following two rather disconcerting "critical" bugs:
- occasionally, the GSM system loses the network despite the network being present and displays a "no service" exclaimation mark next to the service twig. No problem here, except that it does not recover from this state even if the network comes back, or if the location (ie. cell) is changed. For example, this happened in central London today, and after 4 hours of monitoring, it was still lost to the world...
- very occasionally, I've seen my little green service light flashing happily with the clamshell closed, appearing to indicate all was well. However, upon powering up the MDA Pro, I've discovered it had crashed, requiring a reset.
This is serious, because in both cases, my MDA Pro had irrecoverably gone out of network service for a considerable time, during which time any incoming calls had been lost.
In short, I cannot depend upon this device for voice, although I'm happy to live with these issues for data only. So it's a mini laptop... and I still have to get/carry another phone and SIM.
Bosseye
bosseye said:
This is serious, because in both cases, my MDA Pro had irrecoverably gone out of network service for a considerable time, during which time any incoming calls had been lost.
In short, I cannot depend upon this device for voice, although I'm happy to live with these issues for data only. So it's a mini laptop... and I still have to get/carry another phone and SIM.
Bosseye
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree, the Universal is not really a phone its is a PDA/mini tablet. There are lots of people, however, here and at Howard Forums who think the Universal is as good as SE/Nokia phones.
When I had my first Vodafone was about 15 pages long. Hundreds of GPRS/UMTS connections and disconnections. Does not sound right to me! Sure is something funny with the JasJar radio.
bosseye said:
- occasionally, the GSM system loses the network despite the network being present and displays a "no service" exclaimation mark next to the service twig.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
I have seen this also, hopefully a future radio revision will sort it out. I have noticed that even with this (!) mark, the phone *IS* still in service. Some 3rd party progs dont check for a network connection before they try and send data, these still work even with the (!) WiFi is disabled so its not that. I see the same also with wifi, it says 'connecting' but it is in fact connected!!
Basically, the built in stuff is using an API to query the phone about its connection state, and its getting back a 'false'. Stuff that does not bother to query does not get the 'false' and thus works.
Its a pain in the @rse, I think that the display icon displays its state based on the same API call, so perhaps the whole lot is linked together. The status of the device is not being updated correctly.
Oh... it will also ring at times when it is displaying the (!)...
All supposition of course!
Mine will usually come back, if it does not then switching from auto to gsm or umts and then back kicks it into gear. I.e a soft reset is not usually required.
Mine is an MDA Pro flashed with the O2 original ROM.
Nigel
On my O2 Exec, I find that the backlight often isn't working when I switch it on. I have to go into the Settings, select Backlight, and then uncheck and recheck one of the settings there.
I had the same problem with the Ipaq I used to have, although it seemed to happen less regularly.
Calendar\Task alarms dissapear, no Notification with Alarm
the WM "Notification Que" Issue
After 3 weeks of usage of my Qtek9000:
- all the Calendar notifications dissapeared (no text, no sound);
- the Alarms did have sound and vibra, but no text and Notification softbutton on the screen;
- alarms sounds could appear on their selfs on a random time and no Text on the screen.
I've searched the forum and it learned out that it is a Notification Que Issue.
It looks that upon a time, that que is being oversized or some mess (duplicates?) happened in it.
So, after that the "Notification Que" Issue appears.
cross-posted: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=236733#236733
After trying to use my XDA Exec as my main device I had to finally just use it for PIM, eBooks & web (with Opera) and I used a Moto v3X as my main mobile/cell phone as the call quality of the Exec is poor relative to other standard 3G phones and I don't like the delay in altering you to an incoming call. But even as a eBook reader mini tablet I suffered because of the poor battery life and the need to reboot every two days. So I have now gone back to using my Nokia 9500 and I feel so much less stress now! I can't wait for the 3G Nokia Communicator.
Anyone got a fix for this?
lost wifi wep keys every time i soft reset? - keep on having to eneter the bloody wep key!!!!
Hi All,
I am using O2 XDA Exec. here is the system info:
ROM Version: 1.13.82 WWE
ROM date: 11/30/05
Radio version: 1.04.02
Protocol version 42.37.P8
ExtROM version: 1.13.188 WWE
Since my last ROM update from O2 the machine is extremely fast. I got of O2 and installed corporate one and never looked back. I laways have 28MB program and 28MB storage and no hacks involved. I have 512 MB SD card (getting smaller need bigger one).
Incoming calls: always answers the after the first ring.
pressing the phone button brings the dialer up in a split second.
I have buletooh car kit and always connect with my Exec for at least 1 hour at a time twice day without dropping a single connection ever.
WiFi extremly robust and never had problem connecting to mine or a paid one and it is beautiful used with SKYPE to make cheap phoen calls abroad.
I hardly need to reset the machine unless an application behaves badly. I just dont install unnecessary applications, or pretty ones (it is a matter of taste this one)
There is no proper close for application, it would be nice but hardly an issue to me (only a couple of taps away), actually some application I want them running.
Never had problems with call connections, and I travel between London and Swindon everyday.
As for Battery, when not using the display I switch it off (I can still get calls).
I leave a USB cable at work for recharging and a a car charger in the car. I also bought a spare battery. I am never out of battery (ofr my kind of usage).
All applications are standard and I use them heavily, appointments, alarms, contacts (2550 names of all the company employees), emails, word, and especially presentation (power point) and they do the job adequately.
I donwloaded and tried (with intention to buy) many application that might replace the standard ones but I always unable to justify spending the money as they don't do anything special (prettier maybe).
the only application I have is
WiFiFoFum for scanning wireless networks.
SBP GPRS Monitor (O2 gives me 100K a month free - wehehehe)
Adobe Reader 2.0
Microsoft Reader
PocketTV
CodeWallet Pro 5.0
Inesoft Cash organizer 05 Premium
Skookum for RSS news
and of course SKYPE 2.0
and with mobile google and a list of mobile websites in my Internet Explorer favourites and skookum I can get all the news and info that I need.
What I don't like;
no front screen to see who is calling without opening the device (this would have been a killer to me).
A-GPS or even a full blown GPS would have been very nice indeed.
I bought themachine 4 months ago from O2 high street; now hwyI don' thave these bugs people talk about, is there different versions of bad batches? I am not the only one I met quite few people who also get surprised when we read the bugs. Strange; could it be the way people use the device?
Thanks
SO MANY PROBLEMS......BUT MY MAIN ONES ARE
PHONE DROPPING CALLS WHEN DRIVING..UPGRADED TO LASTEST ROM STILL DOING IT ........I REALLY WISH I COULD FIX THIS...DOES ANY ONE ELSE HAVE THIS PROBLEM?
CASE MARKS...
STUTTERING RING TONES
ANSWER DELAYS
I THINK HTC SHOULD DO THE RIGHT THING AND RECALL THE LOT OF THEM MY OLD XDA 2 WAS A GREAT PHONE....THIS IS A PIECE OF CRAP.
:?:
I am just about to purchase a new PDA. I am deciding between the Wizard (o2 xda mini s) and Universal (o2 xda exec).
The universal seems to have everything I want, but I am scared by the posts here.
So I have one basic question for you guys:
Do you think:
1. There are basic hardware problems which can't be resolved until there is a new version
2. It is just a buggy software/firmware issue, and this will be fixed by the current and future firmware upgrades ?
If it is 2, I will not mind buying it ?
thx
Only a personal viewpoint, but my view is that most of the problems are being caused by software that claims to support WM5.0 - but the reality is that although they do support it, not all software is as robust as it should be. I have installed and uninstalled a whole range of applications (purchased and trial versions) - and found that many cause lock-ups etc. After trial and error I have settled on a PIM (Pocket Informant) and a closer/launcher (GSPocketMagic) that work reliably, do not cause my Universal to lock up and do not seem to have any effect on system speed. Others I have tried may cause lock-ups or at least really slow the system performance down significantly. Not sure if others have found the same - just what I have found by trial and error. Hope it helps
that is a very interesting point. I was very influenced by this article:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=35177
Also it seems if you read aximsite re: dell x51v, that Wm5 is not as compatable with wm2003se software as people think.
What also seems to be adding to the issues is that the service providers (o2, orange, etc.) are NOT aware of this and are installing applications as standard (e.g. battery meter) which actually cause lags in answering phone calls as they are not correctly for Wm5.
I guess the question is now, does the jasajr work fine when all bad the sowftare is uninstalled, and is it possible to uninstall monitoring software that service providers have installed ?
I just bought mine on Monday... great piece of kit!
If you are just going to use the software that came with it you shouldn't have any problems at all (i haven't anyway) all is working well.
I think as soon as WM2005 becomes more established and more developers cater for it the glitches will go, like NH said, it's more 3rd party software that's causing the problems
hey budo, which service provider did you buy from ?
how is surfing the internet using 3g (the real reason I want to buy it, as I will keep my normal mobile for phone calls)
rgds
My position is clear. WM5 itself has bugs and does things you don't expect. Here are just four examples of WM5 probelms which are nothing to do with third-party apps:
- If the Camera app is left on it heats-up the devices as it drains the battery
- On downloading email over GPRS/3G the Messaging app can freeze
- Media stored on the SD card when used by apps when the "suspend" option is used can cause the app to fail when you re-start your device
- WM5 can report it has insufficient memory even when it has 20MB of RAM free
- Memory leakage means you need to reset the device daily
- If you do reset it is possible to loose settings and data if this data has not been written back to the persistent storage from the real RAM
O2, and they give you 3 options for "install type" so if you want all the bells and whistles you can switch it on, or if you want just the basic software you can switch that on lol...
I have to sort my internet out for 3G, needs to be config for some reason.... but from what i have seen from GPRS it's top dog esp with sites that cater for mobile internet....
this is not good jah, i am put off again. although this could be fixed with a firmware update if htc provide that kind of thing. Anyone know their record on this for other devices ?
hey budo. If 3g is turned on, it should use it automatically for connection, even if it says gprs. that is normally how all my 3g phones have worked when 'bluetoothed' with a pda.
Colonel
I assume you have seen this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=33871
I am not trying to put you off but just want to make sure you have a balanced perspective. I have an Exec and all I can say is that it is "high maintenance" like all M$ based systems
thanks, i'll read.
I'm not sure I totaly agree with you about M$ stuff. I had a dell x50v and currently have an orange m500, and they are perfectly reliable and low mainentance. It does seem however that the hardware people have rushed out wm5 systems without really doing their research and I am sure M$ is responsible for a load of bugs. Roll on WM5se ......
colonel said:
hey budo, which service provider did you buy from ?
how is surfing the internet using 3g (the real reason I want to buy it, as I will keep my normal mobile for phone calls)
rgds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sux. This pixel doubling issue means that you don;t get anywhwere near the estate you expected. U can switch to Oz VGA but that costs a 5 min reset either way - easier to get to a PC! The other issue is that the IE browser is SO bad that 3G surfing feels like GPRS - in fact I used to fire up my laptop just to check that I had a good 3G signal in the area and was indeed surfing on UMTS!! Issue is that browser renders slowly, and cache's so badly that it actually reloads the whole friggin page when u go 'back'. I could have my laptop working on a 3G card right alongside my JJ on 3G, type in xda-developers and press 'go', and my laptop would give me the screen in seconds, whilst my JJ would take a full minute!! We're taking over 10x slower. Also, many sites do not render in PIE - blank drop boxes etc. In SA that's movie booking gone, not a SINGLE TV guide site works, and altho my private bank works, my company bank does not. However, terminal services in VGA is awesome...
craigiecraigie4
I don't really have problem with 3G and PIE. I use T-mobile and o2 in the UK and the rendering etc is reasonable given that I did not expect laptop like performance on my Exec. The Exec in corp mode with GSPMagic+ is very quick.
I recently bought a TyTNfor almost $900 including a 2 GB expansion card. Despite dozens of hours of trying to get it to work correctly, I find th TyTN almost intolerably buggy.
Specifically:
1) the phone loses connections frequently -- much worse than the Cingular 8125 or my old Treo 650.
2) numerous application programs either crash the device or do not run properly -- specifically, the Audible.com player, the the automated download feature or of Audible Air, most of the SPB utility applications, SBSH Weather (VGA Icons), SBSH Ilauncher and others.
3) the battery life absolutely sucks. I get less than eight hours of operation -- with very few telephone calls. I do have Microsoft push e-mail turned on. However, this ought to work -- for God's sake, or what's the point?
4) the screen/stylus requires re-alignment at least twice a daily..
Is there anyone out there who can help me and walk me through the installation of a new ROM, or some kind of update that makes this device work in a tolerable manner?
I would be very happy to pay you for your consulting time. Otherwise, I want to try to get HTC to take this buggy phone back for a full refund and I will go back to using my old Treo 650.
Many thanks for your attention and future help.
ROM version 1.18.255.3
ROM date 07/22/06
Radio Version 1.03.03.10
wrong forum
natgoldhaber said:
I recently bought a TyTNfor almost $900 including a 2 GB expansion card. Despite dozens of hours of trying to get it to work correctly, I find th TyTN almost intolerably buggy.
Specifically:
1) the phone loses connections frequently -- much worse than the Cingular 8125 or my old Treo 650.
2) numerous application programs either crash the device or do not run properly -- specifically, the Audible.com player, the the automated download feature or of Audible Air, most of the SPB utility applications, SBSH Weather (VGA Icons), SBSH Ilauncher and others.
3) the battery life absolutely sucks. I get less than eight hours of operation -- with very few telephone calls. I do have Microsoft push e-mail turned on. However, this ought to work -- for God's sake, or what's the point?
4) the screen/stylus requires re-alignment at least twice a daily..
Is there anyone out there who can help me and walk me through the installation of a new ROM, or some kind of update that makes this device work in a tolerable manner?
I would be very happy to pay you for your consulting time. Otherwise, I want to try to get HTC to take this buggy phone back for a full refund and I will go back to using my old Treo 650.
Many thanks for your attention and future help.
ROM version 1.18.255.3
ROM date 07/22/06
Radio Version 1.03.03.10
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
feel sorry for your experience, but you are in the wrong forum. go to tytn forum. many happy users/experts are there.
and one more advice, save your money and spend your time reading the forum instead, the experts here don't welcome questions that had been answered before......
In fact, it's a 400 bucks piece of utterly unreliable, useless crap.
Since I got my device back from "repair", it's been a mixed experience. Most things work, some make me cringe in despair.
Today is a bad-TyTN day and I'm really, really <expletive/>.
After the repair, I thought my "No GSM" problems were gone. But today, the first time I really couldn't do without it, it crashed a couple of minutes after I unplugged it from the USB-ActiveSync 4.5 link and told me again "No GSM".
And of course, the result being:
- All POP3 accounts lost, and now I lost all emails and have to use different account names to set them up again
- Network connections credentials lost, even built-in. No I can, again, connected by other means, go figure out how to set these up or,
- finally, hard-reset the device, which is a pain in the neck because I have no out-of-the-box backup.
I'm not even running any third-party software on the device for fear of introducing non-linearities. I did not even install the brand-new TomTom 6, also since nobody seems to be able to sell a sufficiently large MicroSD card at this time.
Who's to blame for my bad experience?
Did I do something wrong? Setting the lock-timeout to 2 hours instead of 12, so it locked during the ActiveSync session?
Did HTC screw up so it would reset some "protected storage" when the GSM card is not detected for some magical reason?
Does Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU2 just have too much bugs to be reliable?
Does my provider E-Plus Germany suck for confusing the device with poor, unreliable UMTS coverage and internet connection problems?
It's a mixture of all these things, I guess. There are too many moving parts, most of which aren't sufficiently documented by Microsoft, or kept up-to-date software-wise by HTC and the service providers.
Examples:
- Messaging that unrecoverably screws up my POP3 accounts and there is no documentation in the SDK about the setup to fix it myself.
- The worthless MediaPlayer, that abandons it's meta-data when the storage card is released.
- The HTC phone software that at times wouldn't let me hang up on occasions, or doesn't start, or keeps using a bad UMTS connection even if GPRS is available and good.
I thought the TyTN would make a great every-day device for a phone and a software development platform for new-class applications.
So far, it's been one of the greatest time-wasters I've ever acquired.
Just like any other toy.
Useless crap.
Not had anything quite as bad as that. Never had to hard reset due to irreversible problem. But, yes quite a few soft resets and in a way although I want to disagree with you I think the device is cutting edge and could easily have been held back a year to iron out some problems. However as you say some of these problems are down to WM and telecoms providers. For business I would not get one of these but probably something with fewer features but high reliability.
For trying out the new or new combinations of features I would still buy a TyTn in preference to anything similar and yes a large part of this is about experimentation and an acceptance that if this were not cutting edge in some ways then reliability would not be acceptable. As it is though my business use is low on TyTn having "Fun" and experimenting is high. My rant is about releasing the device with obvious hardware irritations, the software.. well that can always be upgraded.
Mike
HB_TyTN said:
Does Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU2 just have too much bugs to be reliable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surely not - the problems you've listed (particularly the stale e-mail accounts) are not MS-related problems but because of stale WinCE database entries.
Next time DO run SKTools 3 to clean up the mail databases instead of hard resetting your device.
Furthermore, it's a very bad a idea to send a device in for service that still has data on it. You should have wiped it before sending anyway...
If you view a PPC Phone as a primary data storage/communications center, then you're in for a disappointment. On the other hand, if you use it as an extension of your personal computer, then not only will you have a very productive device but you'll keep your sanity.
I've always used this strategy since my first sync experience on a Nokia 6210 six-years ago. Appointments and contacts all easily synced to my phone. Replaced that with grey t68. Then came the PocketLOOX 600 (touted as first convergence device - nice idea, poor execution). I tolerated the buggy loox for 18-months before trading UP to an h4150 running wm2003se. Great device. Kept a t610 for phone, ppc as outlook back-up.
Arrived in Taiwan for an extended business trip end of July -- immediately picked up the local version CHT9000 (aka Dopod 838pro). Through this forum, someone graciously made available the first English language ROM -- a tad buggy, but later upgraded to my current ROM (dopod 1.23) and in everyway it has exceeded my expectations. I take it to the US and it my t-mobile account with gprs keeps me connected. Recently spent two weeks in Korea and all over China -- again, UMTS available most places, GPRS/EDGE filled in the blanks. Mobile carriers everywhere will love HTC for bringing this device to the masses.
Don't have to, but it's prudent to sync the device at least once a day. In the event you lose the device, it's stolen, or you're forced to hard reset, because it's just a 'copy' of your outlook system, it's no big loss.
All that said -- I'd recommend this device to anyone with at least some technical savvy. Without this, they could never appreciate truly the first quad-band gsm/tri-band UMTS, BT2.0, WiFi G, PPC Phone with both a useable keyboard AND a real scroll wheel and would be better off owning a Chocolate or some other Nokia/SonyEricsson 'fashion accessory'.
Cheers
Menneisyys said:
Surely not - the problems you've listed (particularly the stale e-mail accounts) are not MS-related problems but because of stale WinCE database entries.
Next time DO run SKTools 3 to clean up the mail databases instead of hard resetting your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do I have to use 3rd-party tools to fix such a problem? Where is the KB article about it, either on Microsoft's or HTC's or on my provider's website?
goestoeleven said:
Furthermore, it's a very bad a idea to send a device in for service that still has data on it. You should have wiped it before sending anyway...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before repair, my device had the "Does not reliably detect SIM card" problem, that clearly discouraged me to put any data on it.
As requested by my service provider, I sent in the device hard-reset, without SIMcard, SDcard, battery, or stylus. I even removed the screen protector.
So all that's lost now (EMail accounts, passwords, WiFi, and what not), has been set completely new AFTER repair.
aquanaut88 said:
If you view a PPC Phone as a primary data storage/communications center, then you're in for a disappointment. On the other hand, if you use it as an extension of your personal computer, then not only will you have a very productive device but you'll keep your sanity.
[...]
Don't have to, but it's prudent to sync the device at least once a day. In the event you lose the device, it's stolen, or you're forced to hard reset, because it's just a 'copy' of your outlook system, it's no big loss.
All that said -- I'd recommend this device to anyone with at least some technical savvy. Without this, they could never appreciate truly the first quad-band gsm/tri-band UMTS, BT2.0, WiFi G, PPC Phone with both a useable keyboard AND a real scroll wheel and would be better off owning a Chocolate or some other Nokia/SonyEricsson 'fashion accessory'.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciated the great feature list of the TyTN by putting more than 400 bucks on the table and commited to an additional data plan as well as another 24 months of mediocre network coverage and service.
As I said, I planned to use it for developing pocket pc applications and little helpers to make my life easier.
I use it as an extension to my laptop, it is connected to it via USB most of the time, to charge and sync.
But feel like I could demand that it reliably keeps my data until I sync again.
If I have to always carry my laptop around to get that reliability, then it would have been way cheaper to go with a UMTS modem card instead.
If something is only useful to technologically savvy geeks, without reliability for the Joe Public every-day user, then I consider it a toy. Maybe a great, feature-overbearing, remarkably innovative toy, but nevertheless, something to play with, not to rely on.
Unfortunately, beside the technical problems that could be overcome by updates and repairs, it's a systematic issue that support is split across Microsoft, HTC and my provider.
As I said, it's terrible hard to figure out if a problem is caused by my fault, inappropriate settings, too little or too much tweaking, mediocre network coverage, hardware faults or software problems.
I wouldn't mind hard-resetting the device every day, if there was something resembling a simple backup _out-of-the-box_.
By backup I mean settings, including personalization, network connections, email accounts, sms/mms, custom ringtones, etc.
And that's exactly what I'm into finding to buy or writing myself.
Finally, again
Hang, bang, gone. "No GSM" again.
This time not recovering.
The new thing this time: My service provider E-Plus doesn't accept it for repair.
I should quit my day job so I can fully concentrate on the struggle with this heap of crap.
HB_TyTN said:
In fact, it's a 400 bucks piece of utterly unreliable, useless crap.
Since I got my device back from "repair", it's been a mixed experience. Most things work, some make me cringe in despair.
Today is a bad-TyTN day and I'm really, really <expletive/>.
After the repair, I thought my "No GSM" problems were gone. But today, the first time I really couldn't do without it, it crashed a couple of minutes after I unplugged it from the USB-ActiveSync 4.5 link and told me again "No GSM".
And of course, the result being:
- All POP3 accounts lost, and now I lost all emails and have to use different account names to set them up again
- Network connections credentials lost, even built-in. No I can, again, connected by other means, go figure out how to set these up or,
- finally, hard-reset the device, which is a pain in the neck because I have no out-of-the-box backup.
I'm not even running any third-party software on the device for fear of introducing non-linearities. I did not even install the brand-new TomTom 6, also since nobody seems to be able to sell a sufficiently large MicroSD card at this time.
Who's to blame for my bad experience?
Did I do something wrong? Setting the lock-timeout to 2 hours instead of 12, so it locked during the ActiveSync session?
Did HTC screw up so it would reset some "protected storage" when the GSM card is not detected for some magical reason?
Does Windows Mobile 5.0 AKU2 just have too much bugs to be reliable?
Does my provider E-Plus Germany suck for confusing the device with poor, unreliable UMTS coverage and internet connection problems?
It's a mixture of all these things, I guess. There are too many moving parts, most of which aren't sufficiently documented by Microsoft, or kept up-to-date software-wise by HTC and the service providers.
Examples:
- Messaging that unrecoverably screws up my POP3 accounts and there is no documentation in the SDK about the setup to fix it myself.
- The worthless MediaPlayer, that abandons it's meta-data when the storage card is released.
- The HTC phone software that at times wouldn't let me hang up on occasions, or doesn't start, or keeps using a bad UMTS connection even if GPRS is available and good.
I thought the TyTN would make a great every-day device for a phone and a software development platform for new-class applications.
So far, it's been one of the greatest time-wasters I've ever acquired.
Just like any other toy.
Useless crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the first BIG complaint i have heard about the product.. Second, wow, what did you do to it that it had to end-up in repairs? (fiddler??) Third, if it does give this much problems, then there was something wrong with it from the start, but you didnt take it back an did not insist on a swop?
Look at this app, install it and see if your gsm still is disabled?
Also check your settings again to make sure all is set to the right ones! Else you got a big problem or just dono how the thing works(just saying this coz 80% of all problems are caused by the user him/herself!! See it everyday then they blame me!).. RTFM
Or it could be a virus!! hahah That would be funny!!
OH, your rom version!! Wow dude!! Update the thing!! ROM Version: 1.18.257.2; ROM Date: 05/30/06
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_Upgrades
HB_TyTN said:
Hang, bang, gone. "No GSM" again.
This time not recovering.
The new thing this time: My service provider E-Plus doesn't accept it for repair.
I should quit my day job so I can fully concentrate on the struggle with this heap of crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just as testing purpose: superCID it and try to flash with HTC South African 1.35 Rom
The ROM update worked for me. It took a lot of work to get mine running how it should after that, 3rd party software, reg settings, and I must admit it runs beautifully now. But when it came out of the box it was bloody awful, wouldn't turn on, take 5 seconds to hang up, freeze etc.
One word ... iPhone, hmm.
Hallo HB_TyTN
Like you I am on the E-Plus network (at Hannover), and use a O2-branded Tytn, same firmware. However, I never experienced problems like you, and like us others got used to occasional soft reset requirements, mainly related to the 3rd party Today items I use.
Now that HTC is in the retail market by itself it is certainly not wise to buy their wares over service providers (unless like you one buys on contract), since HTC for machines bought with them will go to greater efforts to repair or exchange machines. Eplus will not repair your Tytn, but usually just send you another "refurbished" one from the same batch they got from HTC.
For the moment you seem stuck with E-Plus, and you can attempt to pressure them into proper service according to German law. Another possibility is in fact to try the South African ROM, and see if it improves your machine. Third option is to beg HTC for direct repair, maybe with confirmation from E-Plus that they cannot help you, and send the machine directly to a HTC repair centre. If you send in your machine, please mail a copy of your attached letter to Fred Liu, HTC COO office, 23 Hsin Hua Rd., Taoyuan 330, Taiwan, R. O. C.
He is the COO of HTC and the top boss of HTC Europe. Coming to Germany soon, he will not want to make enemies here ))
Now after 10 hours it booted just fine and I'm just rapiconfigging back my email accounts and networks.
Reestablishing Bluetooth pairings and TomTom actvation is still manual.
I'm not fiddling. First time it failed right out-of-the-box. After repair #1 I only installed SKTools and TomTom Navigator 6.
ROM upgrade is no option, E-Plus/Brightpoint have not published an update. So there would be no way back.
Last repair the device wasn't switched (same S/N, IMEI, ROM version), so I guess they couldn't repro the problem (that would also explain their refusal to repair it again).
Next time I'll rush to an E-Plus shop as soon as it happens.
lol < well this sucks. cant use less than 10chars.. > lol
My first experiences with the TyTn also were disappointing. It took me weeks to get it more or less useable, and even now some things are not as convenient as they were on my Symbian phone. Here are the things that bother me (some are solved by 3rd party applications, others are not):
General:
- onscreen keyboard pops up even when one is using the hardware keyboard
- no way to backup all the settings
- often hard to navigate when not wanting to use the stylus
- only one language for text entry (word completion and transcriber)
- no data counter (gprs traffic)
- wordcompletion intervenes too much (when I type a Dutch word "wel", after typing the space after the word it changes it to we'll, no way to prevent this)
- wordcompletion only shows one possible next word (no way to scroll between different candidates)
- any setting that is slightly more advanced or deviates from tradition is either hard to set or impossible
Messaging:
- no way to specify the imap-root folder
- not possible to switch SMTP servers (even the from field cannot be chosen when sending a mail, nor can mails be moved from one outbox to another) (other mail clients I tried have problems with my VPN)
- cumbersome downloading (headers only: one has to open a mail and then choose to download it, then click send/receive; why not download it when this is chosen? or even when it is openend?)
- many notifications for sms (sent notification in messaging client, sent notification from network, receipt notification) when sending messages (and one cannot mark them as "read" from the todayscreen)
- applications are not very well integrated (e.g. file explorer cannot send a file via bluetooth)
Calendar:
- always opens on day view, would like to change this to month view (but is not possible)
- day view should be scrolled down to show the start of the day (e.g. 8.00 at the top of the screen), now I have to scroll from 00.00 down before I can see stuff)
- cumbersome entry of time (esp. when entering times that deviate from the time slots)
Phone:
- no support for different call profiles (where a profile is essentially a call filter)
- when one contact has multiple numbers, the phone application only shows the last used one
Network:
- when you add a VPN server, then delete it, you can't add one with the same name (even though it has been deleted)
- wifi starts detecting all networks, and does not necessarily start with the networks one has been connected to in the past
Bluetooth:
- limited profiles
- sometimes counterintuitive
ActiveSync:
- sees the device as new every now and then (causing it to say it conflicts); I have to delete the device on my PC and let it find it all over again
Programs folder:
- is alphabetically, would be nice if one could order this to his own liking
Alarm:
- no snooze function
- unnatural way of entering time and repeat options
File explorer
- no way to view extensions of files
I've learned to live with some of these problems, but I would have expected Windows mobile to be a more mature system. I had to choose a WM5 device (so I new I had to compromise), due to the fact that I wanted to run some specific application (PocketFMS), but didn't anticipate I had to compensate this much. (of course, no of my issues is purely HTC related, but will be present on all WM5 devices)
In total, I personally consider Symbian (Series 60) to be more efficient, better customisable (one is less forced to do things one way) and (never thought I'd say this) more stable.
Jörg
hmmm.... the fact that I'm listening to mannheim steamroller over A2DP at Las Vegas airport while typing this reply on my TyTN is evidence of my disagreement with the OP. This device has done incredibly well at CES. unbelievable functionality in tough tradeshow conditions. i'm really happy with this little gizmo!
Nevermind, I really love it, too. Otherwise I wouldn't spend so much time with it.
But posting in a stable network environment (I'm on home WLAN right now) is not really a proof.
Try this when moving in a crowded area with weak 3G coverage, say on the subway. Add sensitive hardware and a mediocre provider and things go south.
It's unfortunate your having so many of these problems - my Hermes has been excellent! I haven't had any of the issues you listed. In fact, mine has only locked up once, and that was today (and I use it religiously). I've had it hard reset on it's own, but that was caused by Hackmaster. You should definitely try a ROM upgrade, if you haven't already.
At CES, I was using my TyTN on Cingular's network with 110,000 other geeks (kudos to Cingular btw... coverage was great!). Even so, my device was handing off between GSM and UMTS constantly and Cingular experienced at least one major data network meltdown that I could detect. Perhaps it was the combination of 1.35 & the 1.20 radio that made mine work so well.
The worst problem I had was A2DP, but after the first day I found out it was because so many other people had bluetooth going that there were simply not enough available frequencies to support A2DP's high bandwidth demands. All the vendors were bemoaning the fact that their A2DP stuff "just wasn't working right"....
After hearing the news of O2 Atom Life being planned for release, I, like most of the users out there who bought it was restlessly waiting for its release.
Sadly, after getting my hand on the device, I am faced with the following problems (WM5 and WM6).
1. Video Call - The vtcall application requires 10mb of free ram to start. When in use, it only uses about 2-3mb of ram (confirmed by O2 support). The problem is, the average free ram of most users is around 8-10mb. When receiving video call, vtcall fails to start up.
2. Slow performance while scribing - Writing using the stylus is misery with this device. Each strokes appeared slowly and you are unable to write naturely. Instead you have to write very slowly, letter by letter. The excuse given by O2 Support is because of it using the rom as temporary memory for the touch screen and also because of the rom size (1gb). I was told that it is so because they can't foresee what will be effected when they decided to put in 1gb of rom. For me, it seems like it has a design flaw. I wonder if I can return the product and get back my money as this is the main reason why I regret getting Atom Life.
1. Windows Live - All features of Windows Live will try to connect via 3G/GPRS even though the device is already connected to the internet via wifi. Anyway, can't blame this on O2 as it seems to be the problem with WM6 but if they did a good testing, they should have known this and as Microsoft to fix it.
2. O2 Calendar - When tapped, it always open the native Calendar application even though the default calendar application has been set to other application (Pocket Informant, Pocket Agenda, ect).
3. O2 Filler - The filler has problem calculating the free space left with certain today plugins like the native Calendar plugin and Spb Mobile Shell (with auto-hide enabled).
4. O2 Connect - It has only 3 items. Support, Collection Points and News. Where's the updates, tips and ect as stated in www.seeo2.com? The O2 Connect at the site is also worthless. The service is far worse than the O2 Connect service for O2 Xda II mini. Further more, the News item has problem. After refreshing it, about 80% of the time, the content is corrupted. Can only see the first news followed by damaged text display. Anyway, the today plugin can display the news correctly.
5. Camera Templates (Photo Frame mode) - The template is placed in the hidden partition of the rom and users are stuck with only 5 templates. Unlike O2 Xda II mini, users can place additional templates in the My Documents\Templates folder and they are automatically accessible in the camera. Upon contacting O2 support, they asked me to look for 3rd party software to solve it.
6. Notification Queue - The WLMSchedule has mutiple duplication. Need to remove them or the duplicated events will grow in number over time. Again, this is more to Microsoft but as stated above, O2 should have known about it.
I have experienced the same problem but the most irritating for me is the problem with Video calling. How I wish the 1G ROM can share memory with the exhausted RAM like before with Windows 2003.
thanks for the info....how about flame???it hv the same problem??
Here an update from O2:
Prob 1:
After several phone conversation with O2, it is decided that O2 can't do anything with this. The 10mb start-up requirement for VTCall is for performance sake (used for buffer). O2 confirmed that they are aware that Atom Life does not have enough main memory after (extensive use) before it is released to the market.
From my point of view, the designers should be sacked. If they knew about it, why not just increase the main memory to 128mb? Sigh, too many fools working at O2.
...
1. I don't know why but I consistently get 12-15MB of free RAM. Like right now, I have 16MB. I can only seem to get less than 10MB when I play Windows Media Player in the background.
2. I use transcriber and I agree that it's quite slow but compared to the old way of writing on my Palm then it's like light speed.
Now the other part
1 and 6. I don't blame a device (or the maker) for Microsoft bugs. I mean seriously, look how many people go out to get Vista even though it's full of bugs. I got my Atom Life with WM6 and never even touched Windows Live (and don't understand what you mean by WLMSchedule <-- ignorance is bliss ). If I don't like a built-in function, I'll try to get 3rd-party stuff for it or not use it at all.
2. I use SPB Diary and it works with Pocket Informant.
3. After a long process of finding out what is "O2 Filler", I finally figure out what it is. I don't install O2 Themes so it doesn't show up and my SPB Diary is pretty good at calculating the correct space.
4. You actually installed O2 Connect? I heard it was responsible for the random turning on of Wifi so I did not even install it. Got this after intensive research on internet.
5. Ok, this is a problem and the O2 people should do something about it.
So ya, I still blame the O2 people for not getting more RAM (more RAM is always better) and the terrible quality of their softwares. But overall, I love my Atom Life. Just wanna provide a more balanced viewpoint for those interested in buying the Atom Life.
Part 1: It's O2 fault as the VTCall application is choosen by O2 for video call.
Part 2: If you have used Magician before (O2 Xda II mini), you'll be amazed that the old device outperform O2 Atom Live. When you scribe on it, it feels like you are using a real pen.
Part 3 & 4: Heh he, I don't use it actually... just pointing out that O2 are not planning very well with the applications they are providing
Part 5: The great part is, the O2 support ask me to buy a 3rd part application for it... like it does exists. Made me think that the support team is stupid or living in a remote area somewhere in.... dunno where.
Part 6: You can disable the damn WM Live thing using Memmaid... but since I'm using Messenger and Hotmail... sigh...
I have had my Atom Life for about 3 months now. I upgraded it to the latest WM6 ROM found on the O2 web site. My previous device was an I-Mate Jam.
I don't use a lot of the advanced features in the Atom Life, because of my current Telco provider (T-Mobile USA). So, I'm only using Edge, not 3G or 3.5G. I'm also not using VTCall or the FM radio. I do use WiFi and this seems to work well, although not as convenient as being on a PC. I do use Skype on occasion (under WiFi) and that has worked well too. I have a stereo blutooth earphone by Motorola that works great. I'm checking email (POP3) and going to the Internet, no problem. I bought Spb Mobile Shell for launching application and that's probably the smartest buy I've ever made for my device. I almost never use the stylus for most standard operations, thanks to this great application. I also use Microsoft Voice Command. With this, no need to ever look at your screen or fumble with searching for contacts: making phone calls and launching applications are a cinch. I also have a bunch of other applications (various databases, MetrO, PDF reader), all working flawlessly. The camera is adequate. It's never going to replace a real camera, but for quick shots it's actually pretty decent. I don't use my PDA as a major input device. Therefore, I mostly use the build-in keyboard for typing things in and that's fine for me. I do travel extensively overseas and the Atom Life has worked flawlessly on any network it's been connected to.
The only major issue I have with the Atom Life. It doesn't notify me when I have a voicemail waiting for me. Technical support was useless. They basically told me: "sorry, we don't support the Atom Life in the US". I do get notification for missed calls and SMS, but not for voicemail. I have searched the Internet every which way and found no solution, except for a recommendation to change my Radio ROM (I have no clue on how to do this and I don't want to brick my phone). If anyone has any ideas on how to solve this problem, let me know. I will be forever grateful!!
Otherwise, I am fairly pleased with the Atom life, as you may have guessed.
Radio Upgrading
frenchygeek said:
I have had my Atom Life for about 3 months now. I upgraded it to the latest WM6 ROM found on the O2 web site. My previous device was an I-Mate Jam.
I don't use a lot of the advanced features in the Atom Life, because of my current Telco provider (T-Mobile USA). So, I'm only using Edge, not 3G or 3.5G. I'm also not using VTCall or the FM radio. I do use WiFi and this seems to work well, although not as convenient as being on a PC. I do use Skype on occasion (under WiFi) and that has worked well too. I have a stereo blutooth earphone by Motorola that works great. I'm checking email (POP3) and going to the Internet, no problem. I bought Spb Mobile Shell for launching application and that's probably the smartest buy I've ever made for my device. I almost never use the stylus for most standard operations, thanks to this great application. I also use Microsoft Voice Command. With this, no need to ever look at your screen or fumble with searching for contacts: making phone calls and launching applications are a cinch. I also have a bunch of other applications (various databases, MetrO, PDF reader), all working flawlessly. The camera is adequate. It's never going to replace a real camera, but for quick shots it's actually pretty decent. I don't use my PDA as a major input device. Therefore, I mostly use the build-in keyboard for typing things in and that's fine for me. I do travel extensively overseas and the Atom Life has worked flawlessly on any network it's been connected to.
The only major issue I have with the Atom Life. It doesn't notify me when I have a voicemail waiting for me. Technical support was useless. They basically told me: "sorry, we don't support the Atom Life in the US". I do get notification for missed calls and SMS, but not for voicemail. I have searched the Internet every which way and found no solution, except for a recommendation to change my Radio ROM (I have no clue on how to do this and I don't want to brick my phone). If anyone has any ideas on how to solve this problem, let me know. I will be forever grateful!!
Otherwise, I am fairly pleased with the Atom life, as you may have guessed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can find how to upgrade the radio from the link below:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=549804&page=100